for the most part, we don’t have anyone that will be challenging for the 2nd base role in the near future. I don’t know if it would really hurt us developing anyone from within. The prospects listed aren’t ones that we would be dead without.

I don’t know if Baltimore would accept this deal, but if it was a possibility, I would have to tell Mo to pull the trigger on it.

will make a move for a 2B this offseason. The 3 most reasonable candidates would have to be Kelly Johnson, Orlando Hudson, or Roberts. Johnson would cost less, is under control for longer, but not quite as talented. The only way a Roberts deal gets done is if an extension window is involved. I have to believe it would take more than 3 years for it to work though. If he hit the FA market, 14 M sounds about right for 4 years, so why would he take less? Compound that with the prospects we give up, it seems like a lot when we could just sign Hudson for a draft pick.

Kelly Johnson seems like the best answer if he’s available. Would cost 2-3 good, but not great prospects. Not sure what the Braves are looking for, but a package with one of our OF prospects seems reasonable. Maybe Jay, Boggs, Mortenson?

we need MIF help badly. I was personally wondering what it would take to get one of the Marlin’s MIFers. What would they want for Uggla or Rameriez? I wouldn’t play Hanley at SS but I think he wouldn’t be too bad at 2B so either way we would be taking care of the right side of the IF. I would have to think FLA would want more for either of those 2 then Bal will want for Roberts.

1) You’re way undervaluing Jess Todd. Patton is not his equal and never will be.

2) While it is true that teams tended to undervalue draft picks in the past, I think clearly you are overvaluing them vs. prospects at the AA and AAA level. We’re pretty good at evaluating AA and AAA…heck, AAA numbers might as well be treated as major league numbers. That’s not true of high school and college competition. Prospects that have proven they can put up big numbers in the minors are worth way more than a 1st round draft pick.

3) I wouldn’t do this deal. Middle infielders are notorious for bottoming out in their early to mid thirties.

D.GOOCH

but ultimately the owner nixed the deal. Many variations of packages were rumored, but here’s one that might have been the final offer(off “Oriole Central”):

Roberts for Gallagher, Cedeno, Murton, and either Marshall or Veal

start with the fact the Cubs package would net 2 years of Roberts and relatively speaking, the package suggested above (dunc, koz, todd, boggs) for one year seems like overpayment.

Just as I was warming to this idea I looked at b-r’s page for his comps. #2 on Roberts’ comp list is the one and only Adam Kennedy! Yikes!

one or two years ago.

But Roberts is on the wrong side of thirty for a second baseman. It’s a short list of second baggers who have aged well, and they’re all hall of famers or close (Hornsby, Morgan, Whittaker… Heck, Sandberg didn’t even age that well).

I think that package (specifically Boggs and Todd) might be giving up too much for a player that may rapidly and drastically drop off (Alomar, Kennedy).

this is the type of move walt jocketty used to make routinely - ie, it represents the philosophy of the past, so i don’t think it’s particularly likely. besides, jocketty operated in a different environment, in which teams tended to undervalue their draft picks; the phillies could have gotten a higher return for scott rolen if they’d simply let him walk and taken the picks, but most teams didn’t tabulate their balance sheets that way in 2002. jocketty would have offered the orioles skip schumaker, mark worrell, and allen craig, and the orioles might have said “ah, what the hell” and pulled the trigger. you can’t get away with that in 2009.

This, better than most everything I’ve read, distills why I was not all that disappointed at the trade deadline. It seems that many folks, including, perhaps, TLR, don’t understand that the underlying assessments of prospects and draft picks have completely altered the trade landscape from what it was five years ago. Teams value draft picks and prospects more highly, meaning that they are less likely to find common ground on a player nearing the end of his deal because each team’s view of the cost/benefits of the trades are far apart.

But im to drain to respond to it. Is there some kind of support group I can join?

while it’d be nice to have a little more talent in the middle infield, I don’t see that as being the Cardinals biggest problem right now.

Considering the issues the Cardinals have had in late innings this year, I would think those prospects would be better used getting some help for the bullpen.

the 30 blown saves this year seem like the bigger issue.

also, as alxfritz mentioned, roberts is getting old…..personally I would pass on roberts.

LB says he doesn’t think 2009 is our year. My question is, if not ‘09, when? Albert will be 29, which is probably at or near his peak (unless injuries catch up with him). We should have Wainright and Carp back at full strength. Yadi has blossomed (as expected) into the premier catcher in the NL. We have an emerging closer. And we have a very young, talented, and cheap outfield. We should have payroll headroom even at today’s budget or with a slight bump. I’ve been thinking all year we were setting up for 2009, and cutting management lots of slack because of it. I can’t see postponing again.

I would do that move in a heart beat. I don’t care about keeping tons of young talent with margin likely hood that they will be good some day.

In 2009 we actually have a chance to be a very good team. I would rather see the Cards try to win next year then play for 2011 or 2012. Its the difference between being the Red Sox or the Indians or As

The Indians, Twins and As have good young teams, but they can’t get to the end because they don’t pull the trigger. Young players take you so far but they won’t take you all the way. Put the farm system to use and et us an actually good player.

This has to be up there in the worst trade ever category now. Adam Jones was an above average CF’er taking into account his defense as a rookie with huge upside; plus he has the best picture ever that made it to the lab, Sherrill a pretty good reliever, Chris Tillman dominated AA and projects as front of the rotation stuff. This for 80 mediocre innings in one of the worst seasons in franchise history and a likely non-tender coming up.

the Yankees might be frustrated with Cano. How bout Anderson and prospect for Cano?

at first it seemed like a good idea (thinking hell, I’d even throw in another player), but something tells me if we make that trade, Jess Todd ends up being some kind of pitching wizard and Brian Roberts turns into Adam Kennedy. I think the guy is a bit too old to trade away 2 potentially good pitchers for a year, plus others.

LB says the Orioles t"can get two 1st-rounders for roberts if they simply let him play out his option"

But what if the team that signs him has a protected 1st round pick? Then don’t the O’s just get a sandwich and a 2nd rounder? That could be a huge difference.

Instead of giving all of those players away and handing $14 mil to Roberts, why don’t we fork out the money for Furcal and preserve our youngsters?

• Check out their almost identical 162-game averages *

Roberts: AVG OBP SLG HR(10) SB/CS(37/10) RBI

Furcal: AVG OBP SLG HR(12) SB/CS(37/10) RBI

Of course, Furcal is coming off of injury… but he’s had over 550 AB’s since 2002… so it’s not like injuries are a chronic issue for him. Okay, this is starting to get uncanny… They were also both born in October of ’77.

I know that the Dodgers may be keeping Furcal. But, if not, doesn’t this seem like the way to go?

Haven’t we learned that MIF tend to age very poorly. We all complain of AK’s contract but what if instead of $4 mil it is $14 mil to be paid to the poorly playing MIF. It seems MIF start to go down at 28 or younger than eventually fall off the cliff. (Izturius is only 28)

Kelly Johnson I think would still be our best bet. Atlanta needs pitching and OFers. Some tandum of Boggs + Jay + Prospect should be able to land KJ.

Thu 9/18 Lohse @ CIN
Fri 9/19 Wainwright @ CHC
Sat 9/20 Pineiro @ CHC
Sun 9/21 Looper @ CHC
Mon 9/22 Wellemeyer vs ARI
Tue 9/23 Lohse vs ARI
Wed 9/24 Wainwright vs ARI
Thu 9/25 Pineiro vs ARI

does that look right? i’m planning on going to a couple of the arizona games, and want to catch wainwright. wednesday seems like the best bet, right?

I tend to do a lot of baseball reading around the net and noticed a trend. Everyone wants to sign Derek Lowe. It seems imo, that we all look at the numbers and notice they look decent. Look at his current paycheck and it seems reasonable. Look at his health record and it is solid. Outside of Burnett I have not seen more talk about one pitcher than Lowe. Most people assume Sabathia and Burnett will be out of their price range. So Lowe will be their target.

Mark my words Lowe will receive 4 yr/$50 million contract

I motion that we turn Adam Kennedy into the highest paid batting practice pitcher and we also require him to learn to throw left handed.

Sorry Mister Mo,
I really think we should activate that kid from Memphis, whats his name Hoffpauir, so I can play this exciting lineup:

cf miles
1b kennedy
c yadi
p looper
lf lopez
3b barden
2b hoffpauir
ss izturis
rf ryan.
Thanks.
with warmest regards
Anthony LaRussa, supergenius

p.s. most unqualified rookie gms would cherish advice from their hall-of-fame manager

Sure. But so does Kennedy, and his vote carries equal weight.

If necessary maybe “Bruce Souter” can come out of retirement and break any ties.

Here is what we’ve been waiting for.

Check out this lineup of suck:

Schumaker
Miles LF
Pujols
Lopez RF
Glaus
Kennedy
Johnson C
Lohse
Izturis

According to Bernie

guess what? if we didn’t totally implode, removing all evidence of our earlier season, we would probably make the playoffs

link

Not really a big deal, but it just goes to show you how much respect albert has as one of the top very top players in baseball.

and I don’t really care. The Brewers have earned my enmity.

with Barton, then returned to say that Tony is trying to send a message.

How does this guy have such job security that he can whip his out and waive it in everyone’s face…especially in front of DeWitt’s former business partners with DeWitt on hand?

That’s messed up.

this was a good season. I might even say great season. There was hope for the future and even some hope for this season.

Now it’s a dumpster fire…and all I can do is ask what is that smell?!?

now I almost believe it to be true

can we let him go play with his boy walt. im kinda over all the veiled comments, power struggles and drama. lets leave that for the rams plskthx!

Id even throw in Craig or Freese seeing as Melvin Mora is getting old. This trade locks up our weakest position with an elite player that also fits our team needs perfectly. How often do you get to pull the trigger on a trade like that? Rarely. Todd has major questions and doesnt have a Major League out pitch. Kozma ia years away and is as likely to be average as anything else. We would keep Rasmus, Jones and Wallace and we get an impact player at a position of desperate need. What’s not to like? Honestly I really don’t understand any discension on our side regarding this trade, which is what leads me to feel that it will NEVER happen in the suggested package.