St. Louis Cardinals @ Cincinnati Reds GameThread, Sep 16, 2008 7:10 PM EDT

Why does Tony still start Izz2?

He hasn’t been good all year and is just getting worse. I can say without question Ryan couldn’t be any worse.

and is Ryan says “I guess that’s a compliment”

I would say “No, not really.”

by Harknights on Sep 16, 2008 6:55 PM EDT 0 recs

I'd like to see Barden at SS

Why not? He seems to be a decent, cheap possibility for utility guy next year

Felipe Lopez - next year's Joel Pineiro

by DiscoJer on Sep 16, 2008 7:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

he has spent most of the year in AAA at SS, no?

I suppose maybe they are waiting to be officially eliminated?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 7:21 PM EDT up 0 recs

Just in case anyone hasn't seen it

Revised lineup:

Skip CF
Floppy LF
APu 1B
Luddy RF
Glaus 3B
Bugs 2B
Stache C
Loop P (he really needs a better nickname, no?)
Iztoo SS

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 6:59 PM EDT 0 recs

Gameday doesn't have Glaus?!?

by Harknights on Sep 16, 2008 7:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

and it was just on FSN

forgot to add that.

They said that Glaus was gonna go ahead and test out the shoulder.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 7:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

Nothing like having a player play hurt in a meaningless game...

And we wonder why we have so many long term injuries.

by DriverZn on Sep 16, 2008 7:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

bugs?

where did that come from?

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Sep 16, 2008 7:27 PM EDT up 0 recs

I guess I have to take credit for it.

I called Miles Bugs Bunny the other day because he plays every position.

Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me......with nothin'.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

by Tackle Box on Sep 17, 2008 1:31 AM EDT up 0 recs

First ever post!

Come on Cards! Let’s start that 13-game winning streak!

Delgado an MVP candidate!........seriously!?

by RunninRedbird on Sep 16, 2008 7:11 PM EDT 0 recs

if the Cards do go 13-0 from here on out

I will buy tickets to a Cards game next year to the first 13 people who respond to the “Crazy Mattyfrommo!” fanpost which will go up seconds after that miracle happens.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 7:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

Let me just take a screenshot of that comment...

evidence. muahaha.

defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.

by effin fisk on Sep 16, 2008 7:22 PM EDT up 0 recs

Does the offer apply in California?

Obama/Pujols 2008.

by davethebutcher on Sep 16, 2008 7:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

I suppose

but I won’t pay for the plane ticket!

Oh, you meant at a stadium in California? Sure, why not. I get to pick the ticket though.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 7:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

fair enough.

Let’s go Cardinals!!!

Obama/Pujols 2008.

by davethebutcher on Sep 16, 2008 7:27 PM EDT up 0 recs

Welcome

Keep up the good thoughts!

by ccthemovieman on Sep 16, 2008 7:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

Thanks

Delgado an MVP candidate!........seriously!?

by RunninRedbird on Sep 16, 2008 7:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

what did MVPujols do

by bearcatcardfan on Sep 16, 2008 7:24 PM EDT 0 recs

pop out to shortstop

Obama/Pujols 2008.

by davethebutcher on Sep 16, 2008 7:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

troy!

by tomsteele on Sep 16, 2008 7:26 PM EDT 0 recs

come on santa

by bearcatcardfan on Sep 16, 2008 7:26 PM EDT 0 recs

a Card fan in Cincy?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 7:27 PM EDT up 0 recs

no

by bearcatcardfan on Sep 16, 2008 7:28 PM EDT up 0 recs

maryville

by bearcatcardfan on Sep 16, 2008 7:28 PM EDT up 0 recs

alright troy!

Obama/Pujols 2008.

by davethebutcher on Sep 16, 2008 7:26 PM EDT 0 recs

welcome back Troy

boy have we missed you

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Sep 16, 2008 7:27 PM EDT 0 recs

Troy can miss no more games as a Cardinal

until they call Wallace up

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 7:28 PM EDT up 0 recs

Nice return to the lineup

abbreviated swing, too, by Glaus!

by ccthemovieman on Sep 16, 2008 7:27 PM EDT 0 recs

welcome back santa!

When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?

by RosevilleRedbird on Sep 16, 2008 7:27 PM EDT 0 recs

Atta boy Troy!

Delgado an MVP candidate!........seriously!?

by RunninRedbird on Sep 16, 2008 7:27 PM EDT 0 recs

Troy my boy!

defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.

by effin fisk on Sep 16, 2008 7:31 PM EDT 0 recs

looper should bat 9th and iz2 8th

by bearcatcardfan on Sep 16, 2008 7:34 PM EDT 0 recs

you want the better hitter batting 9th?

wait, that might be the logic behind batting the pitcher 8th.

I think too much thinking about this might make my head explode

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 7:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

come on your head would explode

looper’s bating 250 while iz2 is batting 247

by bearcatcardfan on Sep 16, 2008 7:42 PM EDT up 0 recs

you know your SS is in sad shape

when the pitcher is out slugging him by 17 points.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 7:46 PM EDT up 0 recs

wow this thread is dead 2 day

by bearcatcardfan on Sep 16, 2008 7:35 PM EDT 0 recs

Fish beating the 'stros 4-0 right now

Me likey.

defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.

by effin fisk on Sep 16, 2008 7:36 PM EDT 0 recs

I'm just going to pretend

that we’re much closer to making the postseason than we actually are.

defy, cards, defy. hey logic --- you suck.

by effin fisk on Sep 16, 2008 7:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

I will go along with you

I like the Fish

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 7:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

even though the cards are in a skid, its still kinda sad to hear about

this

Man, its gotta suck for him. Being one of the top prospects in baseball, and then ending up with arm issues and will only be remembered for 06 Game 1 World Series. Still, I feel for the guy, and hope him all the best.

The NL Central Blog.com

by dunc4life on Sep 16, 2008 7:39 PM EDT 0 recs

if it isn't anything serious

then that isn’t such bad news. Actually being considered for the rotation in 09? Reyes has to be ecstatic hearing that.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 7:50 PM EDT up 0 recs

hell,

he probably shit his pants when he heard that he didn’t have to deal with LaDunca anymore!

The NL Central Blog.com

by dunc4life on Sep 16, 2008 7:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yea, I like the praise in the article.

About having success working in, out, down and UP :)

Funny how when you don’t concede half the zone to the hitter you can have some success.

by DriverZn on Sep 16, 2008 8:06 PM EDT up 0 recs

I was expecting a lot of clucking

over the Yost firing. The Brennamann kid is spitting out feigned outrage.

by the Tewk on Sep 16, 2008 7:44 PM EDT 0 recs

Have the Brewers

given any reason for it other than “jump starting” the team?

Delgado an MVP candidate!........seriously!?

by RunninRedbird on Sep 16, 2008 7:46 PM EDT 0 recs

Not that I've seen...

but his egregious mis-handling of the pen has been well documented.

by guayzimi on Sep 16, 2008 7:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

Come on MVPujols

by bearcatcardfan on Sep 16, 2008 7:51 PM EDT 0 recs

c'mon Luddy

you love this park, remember?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 7:52 PM EDT 0 recs

Ok...

So I’ve now read a ton of “Who’s laughing now?” type articles regarding the Astros. Their run only highlights why “going for it” at the deadline was such a dumb move. They’ve gone 33-13 since Wolf made his first start, Ty Wigginton has turned into Ted Williams, every bounce has gone their way, and for what? According to BP they have a 7.6% chance at the postseason.

by guayzimi on Sep 16, 2008 7:54 PM EDT 0 recs

i respect them for it.

as should any other fan of sportsmanship. Teams giving up midseason annoys me to no end.

"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar

by SleepyCA on Sep 16, 2008 8:06 PM EDT up 0 recs

Well...

the idea is that “giving up” increases the team’s chances at making the playoffs in future years.

This futile run makes it less likely they’ll be competitive in 2010-2012. Moving Tejada and Valverde would have cleared salary and restocked for future deadline deals when they actually had a reasonable chance.

by guayzimi on Sep 16, 2008 8:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

what kind of prospects

did they give up for Wolf & Hawkins?

Hell, I looked em up. Matt Cusick for Hawkins, and Chad Reineke for Wolf. It looks like they gave up the better prospect for Hawkins.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 8:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

They didn't give up...

David Price or anything, but they could’ve gotten out of having to pay $20 million in ’09 to Tejada and Valverde. C

ouple that with an offseason trade of Oswalt to the Yanks for Hughes and others and Berkman for a big haul and they’d be back on the right path.

by guayzimi on Sep 16, 2008 8:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

I can see giving up Tejada and Valverde

but they would have had to get a monster haul if they were gonna give up Oswalt and Berkman, because the fan base might have deserted them

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 8:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

if by "right path"

you mean “spiral into Royal/Pirates class of futility” then yeah, that’s the way to go.

"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar

by SleepyCA on Sep 16, 2008 8:27 PM EDT up 0 recs

I agree

that would be tantamount to us having given up Carpenter and Pujols. Now that would be BSFI

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 8:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

No, no...

we have a legitimate window of opportunity to win while Carp and Pujols are in their prime or early decline. This is due to solid players surrounding them, young players coming up, and the payroll flexibility to add as needed.

The Astros don’t currently have enough to win now and they have nothing on the horizon. At seven games above their pythag they have a 7% chance of making the playoffs, and their old team is going to be older and worse next year.

by guayzimi on Sep 16, 2008 8:34 PM EDT up 0 recs

of course with free agency

you are never totally out of contention if you are willing to spend, and the Astros have shown that they are willing to do that.

I just think if you give up Berkman in his prime you are sending a terrible message to the fans.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 8:38 PM EDT up 0 recs

So basically...

what you’re saying is that any team not mathematically eliminated on 7/31 should be a buyer?

by guayzimi on Sep 16, 2008 8:32 PM EDT up 0 recs

are you saying

that any team that is mathematically eliminated on 7/31 should be a seller? I can almost see that logic, but selling the cornerstones of your franchise just because you are out of contention is a terrible idea

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 8:35 PM EDT up 0 recs

I was just saying they...

should’ve moved Valverde and Tejada at the deadline. That would have made sense whether they did a full-bore rebuild in the off-season (by moving Berkman and Oswalt) or going for it in 2009 with the same cast of characters.

$7 million for Valverde and his 3.5 FIP is unpleasant, and of course Tejada is washed up.

by guayzimi on Sep 16, 2008 8:42 PM EDT up 0 recs

that last part I can't argue with

I am just glad that I was never on the “wish the Cards had went after Tejada” bandwagon

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 8:59 PM EDT up 0 recs

not necessarily

sometimes you have to dance with the one that brung ya. Some situations do call for selling- like Walker, who was about to retire and could bring value to the team by moving him.

I actually think more teams who are out of contention should make deadline moves focused on winning NEXT year…

"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar

by SleepyCA on Sep 16, 2008 8:41 PM EDT up 0 recs

yeah, but cusick is a future 1B/3B

his defense at second is terrible, and he can’t hit well enough as a 22yo in A ball to be a prospect at 2B. He’s edgar V gonzales, 5 years younger.

They didn’t give up anything worth anything, and by not giving up they now have a shot at the playoffs. And how many tickets did they sell for the last 2 months that they wouldn’t have sold?

and do you really think anyone would have given anything for a guy making $12M/year who is being outhit by aaron miles? V, sure, but tejada had no value after April. if Lee doesn’t get hurt, the astros are easy wild card favorites right now.

"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar

by SleepyCA on Sep 16, 2008 8:25 PM EDT up 0 recs

I am in agreement

it isn’t like they sold the farm

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 8:27 PM EDT up 0 recs

the problem is that they had no farm to sell

through bad drafts, signing Carlos Lee, failing to sign those they did draft, and trading them for Tejada and Valverde

For Hawkins and Wolf, they gave up the last vestiges of their farm system — which were table scraps, except MAYBE Brian Bogusevic, who played about half a season in the OF after being moved from the mound b/c the former 1st rounder was awful.

Their farm has nothing. Should they have made the trades at the deadline? Who cares? It raised their chances of winning this year from infinitesimal to minuscule and only exacerbated the problems in their farm system. They didn’t give up great prospects — only b/c they had none to give. Their major sin was committed in the offseason when they failed to recognize that this wasn’t a playoff-caliber team and they acted as though they were just a couple of players away from the World Series.

Should they have been sellers? Probably but they don’t have much to sell. Their most tradeable commodities have no-trade clauses in their contracts. I guess they could try pawning off Tejada or selling high on Valverde since it would make no sense to re-sign him after ‘09, but this team’s in a big hole that finishing 3rd in the division is only going to further mask. I don’t care what the records look like at the end of the season (ok, I do) but I’d MUCH rather be us than them … and it’s not even close.

by chuckb on Sep 16, 2008 10:16 PM EDT up 0 recs

But that's not the point

the point is that they got a valuable bullpen arm and an average starter for the stretch run for absolutely nothing. The idea that we couldn’t match that with a much deeper farm system I’m sure is what is upsetting to some.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 16, 2008 10:24 PM EDT up 0 recs