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a september to dismember

i hope you and all of yours are high and dry this morning in st louis. nl central standings since september 1:

WLGB
astros 9 2 -
reds 7 5 2.5
bucs 6 7 4
cubs 4 6 4.5
cards 4 8 5.5
brewers 3 11 7.5

reverse the cards’ wins and losses (and they’ve certainly had their chances), and they’d be half a game out of the wild-card lead this morning and tied in the loss column . . . . . if i wasn’t disappointed in the cardinals’ season heretofore, i’m feeling a few twinges right about now. what has changed? opportunity. in august the cubs and brewers both won 20 games, and our boys simply couldn’t keep up and fell off the pace; no shame in that. but the brewers will be lucky to win 10 games in september; they’re holding the door wide open, begging some other team to walk in and take their playoff spot, and the cards are rejecting the invitation. it’s the 3d straight year the team has run out of gas in september; the cards haven’t played well in september when it mattered (ie, when in a tight playoff race) since 2002, when they went 21-6, and 2001, when they went 20-8.

thank god for october 2006. without that, this would be one irate fan base right about now. hell, a lot of you are irate anyway . . . . . . . just be glad you don’t root for the brewers.

i had mixed feelings about the article about mozeliak in the sunday post-dispatch. i was pleased by the report that mo refused to trade jason motte for will ohman --- that deal might have shut up a portion of the talk-radio crowd for a week or two, but it would have hurt the organization in the long run (and it probably wouldn’t have helped in the short run --- ohman has a 6.75 era since the trade deadline). and i was encouraged by this statement:

I don’t think [public sentiment] should be my compass. There are always going to be people who want you to do more. I want to see us stick to the plan and how we accomplish it. I know a lot of people interpret that as "play the kids and do nothing more than that." I can assure you that is not my position.

mo doesn’t explicitly state what his position is, but i’m hoping it’s based on the concept of value. la russa spoke recently of impact as the imperative; i still disagree with that. i don’t believe this team is simply an impact player or two away from being a strong championship contender; they might be a player or two away from being an october participant, but i’d like to see the cards aim for 100 wins, not 92. rather than simply focusing on 2009, the goal this off-season should be to position the team for a 2- to 4-year run. that process began last winter, when the cards shed age and payroll entanglements and got younger / cheaper in a hurry. now is not the time to lurch back in the other direction. they obviously need to upgrade in the middle infield, but if "upgrade" means 3 yrs / $18m for orlando cabrera or jack wilson, no thanks; i’d sooner bring back izturis on another 1-year deal. the way to upgrade is to deal for a young player with upside. for example, the angels have a ridiculous surplus at shortstop, with 3 very good ones at the top rungs of their system --- brandon wood, sean rodriguez, and the current big-league starter, erick aybar. all three are 25 or younger and ready to play now. the angels, as ever, will go into the off-season looking for a power hitter, and the cards have a surplus of those in the system. . . . that’s the type of target i’d like to see the team set --- one of the angels’ youngsters, or somebody like chin-lung hoo (if the dodgers re-sign furcal), brent lillibridge (whose stock is way down), asdrubal cabrera (ditto), guys like that. no doubt i’m leaving out some worthwhile names; just going off the top o me head.

eventually the cardinal shortstop might be nico vasquez; check out alex eisenberg’s scouting breakdown at Baseball Intellect.

congratulations to the batavia muckdogs, champs of the new york-penn league; unless i’m mistaken, they’re the first st louis affiliate to win a league championship since the 2005 palm beach cardinals --- a team that featured mark worrell, mike parisi, joe mather, brendan ryan, and jason motte (as a catcher). the batavia team is mainly stocked with players from the 2008 draft, with a smattering of graduates from the cards’ caribbean academies; a lot of muckdogs had promising seasons. the farm system deepens.

congratulations are also in order to carlos zambrano, whose demeanor on the mound vaguely reminds me of joaquin andujar’s --- tough guy, tends to irritate his opponents. i’ve been lucky enough to witness two no-hitters in person; there’s nothing more exciting short of a posteason game.

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A top SS prospect blocked in his organization

Agree lbirdos that this is the type of player the Cards should be hunting for in an upgrade, not an overpriced vet on the back side of his career. Last year, these types of players were named Carlos Quentin and Ryan Church (although outfielders). Our farm system finally has the assets to get into the game for guys like these. Building from within can also mean trading away prospects who are blocked to fill holes. Anybody with eyes sees the gaping hole in the Cards middle infield.

by jjray on Sep 15, 2008 9:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I would agree with Mo, to some extent, that public opinion

shouldn’t dictate what moves he makes and how he runs the club…he is, after all the expert, and I’m just sales rep at a community newspaper.

That said, my expectation is that the club establish a clear path to developing a championship team again, and that he communicate to the fan base what that path is, through the use of fan conventions, online chats, etc. I truly believe the days are gone when a team can operate in their ivory tower without at least letting people know the direction of the club. Not a referendum on what to do, mind you, but understanding the mood of the fan base and even accepting some suggestions about non baseball related items, such as game day atmosphere. To his (Mo) and the Cardinals credit, I think they have done a good job of that for the most part.

by tbell61 on Sep 15, 2008 9:11 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

if they let people know what direction they are trying to go

then the opposition or teams we are trying to deal with can use it against us. this “they need to share with us what they are trying to do” opinion amazes me.

by UNCDubya on Sep 15, 2008 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

because other teams are too stupid to figure out

what the Cardinals need or what players they might be interested in.

Baseball GM’s aren’t half as secretive as the media and fans wish they were.

by azruavatar on Sep 15, 2008 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ugh -- my punctuation sucks this morning

I’d like to swap that . for a ?

and remove the ’ altogether

by azruavatar on Sep 15, 2008 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My apologies,

Snarkiness and sarcasm aside, I really wasn’t very clear in my earlier post…OF COURSE I understand what direction they are going with the team, and NO, I don’t expect the general manager of a major league baseball team to explicitly map out what moves he intends to make to the fanbase, or the media for that matter.

My whole point, not very well said, is that I do appreciate the job Mozeliak has done this year and that he seems to be much more communicative than his predecessor (e.g., his appearances on the Post chats on a couple of occasions this year). I expect he knows how to keep his cards close to the vest, while also being mindful of the public relations aspect of the job.

Sorry for the rambling…that does seem to piss off some people around here.

by tbell61 on Sep 15, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i guess all businesses

should put their future plans out in public then too

by UNCDubya on Sep 15, 2008 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think you read his post correctly

He wasn’t saying that ALL info should be dissemintated, just general directions and to be more friendly and interactive with the fanbase, which I think they have done

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 15, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Confused

You can’t tell as a fan what direction they are moving?

by llabyellov on Sep 15, 2008 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Leftandeded reliever, impact bat starting pitcher

FREAKING MIDDLE INFIELDER. Good LORD how is that not mentioned.

by sdrone on Sep 15, 2008 9:33 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I got the feeling that THE IMPACT BAT

wil be (in a perfect offseason) a middle infielder. Guess I just think it’s implied.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Sep 15, 2008 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm, maybe....

Heh. Maybe impact bat means “hitting above .240”!

by sdrone on Sep 15, 2008 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My vote

on the MI situation is to let Izturis and Kennedy go (one to FA, one cut) and trade for Brandon Wood and Asdrubal Cabrera. I did not know that Cabrera’s stock was far enough down that they would think of trading him. I thought Cleveland is trying to get younger…he would help that. If available, those are my two guys. Miles can stick around to show them how to work hard to use the talent that you’re given. His advice to them should be: You have way more tools than I. If I am on the field, unless it’s a day off for you, then you aren’t doing your damn job. Work harder and get it done. :)

Alrighty. Enough out of me. Gotta run.

by stlfan on Sep 15, 2008 9:53 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

while i would love Wood and Cabrera

where would they play? Cabrera is a outstanding fielding shortstop that has been moved to second for some reason. By all reports Wood is not terrible at the position but he would top out at average. Why would you have a great fielding shortstop at second and an average fielding one at short? you could swap them but i don’t think 2B is a position that Wood could play with his size and he is only going to get bigger and slower.

that said i have long been an advocate at getting B Wood from LAA…

"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum

by nomar34 on Sep 15, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cabrera spent time retooling his swing; his down months look to be a blip and it's unlikely the Indians will do anything except

possibly move him to short. He’s the kind of player they keep. They will probably let you have Barfield or Marte…..buy low IF you think you have the answer to turn them around. I don’t think either one of them play ss though.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Sep 15, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

coooollllbbyyyy

Ankiel’s out for the season? Colby’s not playing winter ball? This is less than ideal. I thought that this was what sept callups were invented for; to give young guys a sample of the majors while vets recuperate.

Tristeza infinita.

by spencegrif on Sep 15, 2008 9:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think some of the prospects.....

you guys want to deal for, we’re going to have to give up Rasmus/Wallace, or Anderson and a TON.

by SoonerfanTU on Sep 15, 2008 10:13 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

id give up Anderson in a heartbeat

for Brandon Wood but LAA has a few good young catchers already. Giving up Rasmus would be tough and they have two over priced CF already that they wont be able to get rid of. Wallace i wouldnt trade (nor could i until July) but i am too impressed by his offensive presence to get rid of him.

"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum

by nomar34 on Sep 15, 2008 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Closer

I would be interested to see a “platoon” at closer. Motte and Perez. I think they’ll only get better the longer they’re at the MLB level. If I had to pick one though, I like Motte over Perez. I think Motte has a better closer mentality and has a higher intimidation factor. Either way, having those two as the 8th and 9th inning guys is exciting.

I am also interested in what we’ll do with Lopez. I like him at 2nd but would not be opposed to him at SS.

by TNCardsFan on Sep 15, 2008 10:46 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

His defense at SS would scare me a bit.....

But I think he can be fine at 2B. That said, if they worked him all offseason on defense, and he dedicated himself to getting better, I think he’d be fine at SS too. Who knows, that might be the plan.

Gonna be an interesting offseason.

by SoonerfanTU on Sep 15, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.....

That is why I’m optimistic. I’ve already seen improvements, and the things he needs work on, are all correctible. Dude has a nice arm, and is plenty athletic.

by SoonerfanTU on Sep 15, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Motte might have the "presence"

But Perez has much better stuff.

Kosuke Fukudome: $55 million.262 .362 .381
Skip Schumaker: $Free .306 .364 .417
Skippy needs a new publicist

by joker24 on Sep 15, 2008 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mmm......

I don’t know about that. Perez doesn’t have the better fastball, and command is about equal. Perez does have the better slider right now though.

by SoonerfanTU on Sep 15, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perez' fastball doesn't have the same velo but has much more movement

And the slider isn’t even remotely close. Perez has the chance for a dominating slider, Motte’s might be useful.

Kosuke Fukudome: $55 million.262 .362 .381
Skip Schumaker: $Free .306 .364 .417
Skippy needs a new publicist

by joker24 on Sep 15, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

First hand observations

I was in Pittsburgh Saturday night. eeeeeeeeeeeuuuuuuuuu…. but being a few rows back from the Cardinal dugout I saw some interesting things.

One that bothered me was Albert not being able to run out the DP ball. He almost stopped as he went down the line. After the out was recorded he seamed to limp back to the dugout. He did run the bases well later, but that was a cause of concern on my part. The other thing about Albert that does not come across on TV every time he makes contact he crushes the ball. Even his ground outs were smashes. His defensive play at first caused me to stand and shout “Gold Glove! AND MVP!”

Wainwright obviously had a bad night, but the conditions at game time were as tough as they get. Temps were in the high 80’s and the humidity was unreal. I would have paid 20 bucks just for a slight breeze. My wife and I were both sweating and we were just sitting there. It had rained just before game time, and the air was heavy. That said he struggled to find the plate in the first inning and I was worried that it was going to be a long night, but he settled down some what the next three. He throw a 69mph change, but never topped 90 on the stadium gun. In the fourth Adam was wild in the strike zone and got nailed. It took a while before Tony got anyone up in the pen. I think he was expecting Adam to work through it. After the game was tied the team’s collective shoulders seam to sink. They lost their energy. They seamed to have run out of gas. I guess the whole month has been that way.

Motte and Perez both have exploding fast balls. Wow! they seam too just jump at the last second and really pop. I was very happy to hear that, Yeah I said hear it. Larue’s glove was really slapped by the 93 mph fastballs. I was expecting to see 96 or 7 when I looked at the board.

Felipe Lopez has a new fan. Boy my wife really liked what she saw in him. She has a good eye for talent. She renamed him Phillip. His homer wasn’t a shot but it carried through that heavy air. I like him at 2B next year.

So this off season seams pretty cut and dry, but who knows. A young SS that is blocked LB mentioned Wood. He has been talked about here a lot almost as much as Carlos Quentin was. Ben Zobrist has pop and is a switch hitter. Both have struggled. Does anyone here know who has the better glove? I would also like the Card to sign two pitchers one for the rotation and one for the pen.

by nybirdfan on Sep 15, 2008 11:29 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Were we sitting next to each other?

I was sitting a few rows behind the Cardinals dugout, Section 108.

Lopez just rubbed me the wrong way that game. Made some bad throws that he got bailed out on, barehanded a groundball that he clearly could have used his glove on, took an hour to get around the bases on his HR and then when he showed up Freddy Sanchez, I was like…what is with this guy?

We actually got up from our seats right before the bottom of the 5th to get some food because we figured there was NO WAY Wainwright was going to blow a 4 run lead. We no sooner got to the Federal Street Grille before I had to ask her “How many runs were we leading by, because 2 just scored?”

Needless to say, the last two games I took her two…TESS and this one were not so much fun as we left.

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lopez

i noticed him trotting in a previous game too. i had the same reaction you did. however, when i watch him in interviews he seems like the polar opposite of someone who would do that.

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Sep 15, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He could talk as much crap as he wanted

and I wouldn’t care as long as he was fielding the balls.

He’s been better than I thought he would be offensively but about as bad as I thought defensively (which is pretty bad).

by azruavatar on Sep 15, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dang it Hardcore

I was sitting in section 112 just a couple of rows back from the dug out boxes. You weren’t the guy that got hit with the foul ball were you? It was so quiet there I did my best to heard. LOL…Well, I would have liked to meet you. I left a note in my fan post about the off season for people to stop by section 112.

Do u live in Pittsburgh? If so we will be going to the Astroles game next Saturday as well. Why you ask? Free Lynyrd Skynyrd concert after the game. My son is an accomplished guitar player and a fan of skynyrd. it is a surprise. Anyway we will be in section 115 for that.

We live near Syacuse, and Pittsburgh is the best drivable place to see a game about 5 hours. Philly is an ugly city. I was born there. NYC and DC both are a pain to drive. I love the 25 dollar field boxes at PNC. The 7 dollar beers cause me to smuggle in VT’s.

by nybirdfan on Sep 15, 2008 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No discussion about LB's first half of his post?

The fact that the Cardinals haven’t played well in September since 2002, the summer they acquired Scott Rolen who lit the world on fire?

For all the BS in April and May of Tony running out Spring Training lineups to ‘keep his guys fresh’ for late in the season, apparently it isn’t working out so hot. If that were the case, wouldn’t the team play better in September than April? Perhaps we are all spoiled by the fact that we won the WS in 2006 and that we usually have a more laid back approach as far as the Cardinals results as a fan base but think about this:

Is there any other fanbase in baseball that wouldn’t be calling for their managers head on a stick right now if they had gone into play Friday with the chance to get back into a Wild Card spot only to be swept by one of the 4 worst teams in baseball? With their ace going?

Joe Strauss said last week that the Cardinals are close to an extension with Dave Duncan. That likely means that LaRussa won’t resign. Will he be fired? Should he be fired?

We will never know the full story on who was calling the shots. Maybe we’ve got LaRussa all wrong and he was throwing his temper tantrum with his lineups because he WANTED Freese and Rasmus but was told no by Mo. Who knows. Hopefully some day we get the full account.

But, for a manager that prides himself on a Hard 9, subbing the entire bench in with 9 outs left to go down only 5 runs to one of the worst teams in baseball isn’t kosher. Especially when your playoff chances hang in the balance.

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2008 11:43 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He's not going to get fired

ever.

For better or for worse (and I’d debate for both sides), it’s his job until he retires.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Sep 15, 2008 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I will debate for on side

I am not sure whether or not Tony should be fired, but nobody should be graced with having a job until they retire. You should always have to earn it. I so have to say that if this team has another collapse next season then Tony should be gone.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 15, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

tony would agree with you

if you were talking about Edmonds ;-)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Sep 15, 2008 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not going to argue

but let’s not forget that they’re missing Glaus, Molina, and Ankiel. Take away the starting 3B,C, and CF from just about any club and they’ll struggle.

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Sep 15, 2008 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed.

Every team has injuries and injuries are a ready excuse, but the Cards have definitely been hit harder this September and, for that matter, the whole season.

Now, is the team as constructed more injury-prone than its competitors or were we unlunky?

by andujar on Sep 15, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hasn't this happened two years in a row now, though?

Probably just a fluke, but it’s frustrating.

I honestly wonder about the Cards medical staff. Among other, more documented things, the Ankiel hernia was pretty obvious a month before he went in for a second opinion.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Sep 15, 2008 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep

And Rick looked eerily similar to pre-shut down Duncan during his come back form the non-DL.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Sep 15, 2008 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

kinda makes me wonder

what Luddy is playing through right now.

"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar

by SleepyCA on Sep 15, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you.

I think something is bothering him as well

It’s odd that I no longer think players are capable of slumping. I immediately think the guy is hurt. I guess that’s the football mentality that we’ve seen lately for Cards personnel.

by andujar on Sep 15, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

luddy seems OK...

Luddy’s problem is he is expanding his zone. The few balls he does hit hard seem to be right at guys.

From Day 1 Luddy could not hit high heat, and was known for chasing balls low and away…. Kind of similar to Soriano.

Well Luddy is not laying of either pitch right now, therefore he sucks.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 15, 2008 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh yes one more thing

most games ever played by Ludwick is 134 with 508 AB’s in 2006 at Toledo

I am guessing 138 MLB games and 495 AB’s is catching up with him.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 15, 2008 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hear it is quite a grind

Thank you for the simple yet thoughtful analysis.

Also, his first taste of a playoff chase. Probably not helping him control the strike zone.

by andujar on Sep 15, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Luddy

also has a problem recognizing the slider. He needs to learn how to pick it. Pitchers seam to be getting him on sliders away. Making him look foolish at times. Like Saturday night. If he can’t learn to lay of the slider he will see more and more of them next year.

by nybirdfan on Sep 15, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problem is that this organization's

top 2 prospects at the beginning of the season were a catcher and a CF and at the end of the season, the third and fourth were both 3B.

So, they should have been covered for those injuries and they chose not to address them as they were literally 3 games out of a playoff spot.

That’s just wrong.

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2008 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

just

because they are the best prospects doesn’t mean that they’re the most prepared to play. Prospects tend to be those with the highest ceilings, not necessarily the one’s best suited for the team right now

by eglasier on Sep 15, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

best line up..... (just listing positions)

1B- Albert
C- Larue (Molina is hurt) Larue really is not awful
2B- Miles/Lopez
SS- Izturis
3B- Barden (his natural position. Field well, don’t know about his bat)
LF- Lopez/Barton (his bat is better than Phelps at this point. He is better than Phelps in LF)
CF- Skip
RF- Ludwick

My biggest gripe is, I believe this is your best line up. Now one can argue Phelps is more dangerous than Barden, however Barden is by all accounts very good defensively at 3B. Why not play him at 3B and you have a good left side with Barden and Izturis so you avoid giving away runs. Miles if fine at 2B and frankly Kenndey if terrible offensively, I can’t figure out why he is still playing.

Lopez needs to rotate with Miles and Barton in LF and all is fine. See Larussa is almost playing too many guys at this point… I don’t see the need to play, Satvi, Phelps, Ryan, Kennedy at this point. That would stop the nonsense of some of the crap we have seen.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 15, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I kind of agree

I would like to see Tony let more guys play out the games and limit the odd position play of some of these guys. It feels like to me the guys go out there and don’t know how many innings they’ll get, how many at bats or where they’ll be playing next inning. Didn’t Barton get moved from right to left to right? I think we need some routine right now.

by TNCardsFan on Sep 15, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's just about putting guys at the best spot offensively and defensively....

Now Aaron Mile in RF is crazy, But Adam Kennedy in RF is just absolutely uncalled for.

At least Aaron Miles can hit. Adam Kennedy is not a RF and he can’t hit. See that’s just stupid.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 15, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

4 call ups = $240,000 direct budget hit

I would put more blame on Mo than on LaRussa for this one. This number doesn’t include road game cost or per diem either. You can subtract Rasmus from that number though because he isn’t ready to face MLB pitching after only facing low A ball pitchers in the last six weeks.

by ubeddie on Sep 15, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We played the Pirates

if he just faced Low A ball pitching, he’s ready for the Pirates.

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He hasn't faced low A pitching since 2006

What he did face at the highest level of his rehab was High A pitching and he went 0 for 9 with 1 walk and 3 strikeouts against it.

Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me......with nothin'.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

by Tackle Box on Sep 15, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

pirates have 35 on their active roster, i guess they are just rich

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Sep 15, 2008 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

follow up

maybe we can get a follow up post on why those season might have been different. i have a feeling it will have something to do with an infusion of talent from a mid season acquisition or a minor league call up. like you said that was the summer we acquired rolen.

the problem this season was that our holes were way too obvious and Mo was a newcomer to the GM ranks so they were trying to hose him. tough spot. hopefully things are different this offseason.

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Sep 15, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not going to discuss any season except this one.....

Mostly b/c I don’t remember the specifics, nor do I have time to research them.

But how can this year’s “collapse” be chalked up to anything BUT injuries?

The last few weeks we’ve lost 2 of our top 4 OF’s. Our 3B. K-Mac has hit a wall.

And you can even look back a little further and point to Carpenter and Waino, and how their injuries put more pressure on guys.

You can argue that we should have made more moves before the deadline, but looking at what people wanted for something as simple as Ohman, I can see why Mo stood pat.

by SoonerfanTU on Sep 15, 2008 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

injuries + luck

they’ve played better than their September record suggests. There have been a number of games get away due to untimely errors, poor execution or one bad pitch. Sometimes you just lose close games.

by andujar on Sep 15, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to Strauss

Glaus has been injured since 3 weeks ago.
Ankiel has had his gut injury for 2 months.

Who is to blame for not replacing these guys with call-ups? Who is to blame for putting injured players in the lineup? Glaus has been hitting .220 over the last 2 weeks, Rick Ankiel .129.

If the Cardinals had addressed these problems when they first flared up, we wouldn’t be talking about just 2 weeks of Rasmus and Freese, we’d be talking a month of contributions that may or may not have us in the same place.

But you can’t say the Cardinals would be WORSE than .220 from 3B and .129 from LF by making the promotions from within the organization.

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think we will ever know the "who" Hardcore?

I have no idea how things work?

Heck maybe Ankiel & Glaus were not upfront about how injured they were?

It’s just odd and I can’t get my hands around it. I don’t know if I will even try as it would be pure speculation.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 15, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I sincerely hope the answer to your questions

has the initials J.M. and not T.L. Oddly, I would rather have the GM responsible for those decisions—even though they might have been poor decisions—because at least that means the GM is in charge of this situation. If, on the other hand, our manager is the reason those moves weren’t made, it means we not only have a manager with poor judgement, but also a GM who defaults decisions to the manager. A double whammy, IOW. And frankly, unless TLR is spending a whole lot of time watching video of our AAA and AA players, he can’t really be as well-informed about them as others in the organization.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 15, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tony is not well informed about minor league guys.

He was interviewed about Josh Phelps.

Tony said he had to go to the minor league guys and ask them what positions Phelps could play and how often and well he played them. I think Tony and Dave are given reports on minor league guys that are called up.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 15, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Injuries

have to be dealt with quickly. Those hitting coaches and coaches in general can tell pretty quick when something is not right with a guy. Somebody is dropping the ball, I think, when it comes to diagnosing and acting on these guys’ injuries. If Ankiel would’ve had this done 2 months ago, he’d a been back already. Glaus may be the same situation.

by TNCardsFan on Sep 15, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Glaus has a shoulder strain

I can’t imagine ‘playing through it’ makes it better. I would think it would only make it worse.

I mean, look at it this way, he’s had a cortisone shot and the Cardinals don’t have to worry about retroactive DL’ing him in September…yet he hasn’t been used a PH’er yet. Rick Ankiel couldn’t even run and they were PH’ing him all over the place.

That has to tell you something about how serious Glaus’ injury is. And the Cardinals were either willfully ignorant about it or Glaus hid it extremely well.

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Sep 15, 2008 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is there any question?

“i don’t believe this team is simply an impact player or two away from being a strong championship contender; they might be a player or two away from being an october participant”

I tend to agree with that. And would anyone argue that the “one” guy who would have the team solidly in the WC lead this year, or at least right there, is a Nathan/Rivera/Lidge type?

I’ve said it before, this team has generated the second most save opps in baseball, behind only the Angels. (Caveat – I know that some games supply multiple save opps and that TLR’s bullpen usage generates even more, but still…)

Everyone clamors for more offense from the MIs. Yeah, OK, fine. Let’s assemble a powerhouse in all facets. That’s a fine goal. But, as the Angels have shown, you can win with good starters, great defense, and just enough offense, but you absolutley need to be able to pull out the close games. The Angels have k-Rod, the Cardinals have nobody like that. The Angels are playing in October. The Cardinals? not so much.

I have to believe management sees this, and will jump in for K-rod and Fuentes this winter. Is that what they should do? I’m not endorsing it or condemning it, just saying that, on the surface, an elite closer seems to represent the “impact player” mentioned by LB that will get them to October 2009. Now, whether that’s the right call or not will obviously be debated endlessly. Should be fun.

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Sep 15, 2008 12:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This years failures in the bullpen

shouldn’t dictate the entire course the team goes in for 09. The ’pen has been pretty solid for a month now since Perez has gotten the shot at closer and roles have been re-established.

Having the pen we have now from May to the end of July would have been a massive upgrade; spending 15 mil a year on a 70 inning pitcher would be an upgrade, too, but not exactly a wise one financially.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Sep 15, 2008 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey

i liked the way the pen performed Saturday night. I would still like the Cards to Build it some more

by nybirdfan on Sep 15, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Two better LOOGYs

Than Villone and Flores would be ideal, but once you get into big money guys for the pen when the rotation and middle infield need upgrades, I don’t see that as being wise operating on a set budget that Mo has.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Sep 15, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed, bullpen needs to be improved on the cheap.

In 2005, the Cubs were plagued by a bad bullpen and finished 79-83. In the offseason, they went about fixing that bullpen, largely ignoring other holes on the team. They signed Howry ($3M) and Eyre ($3M). In 2006, they finished 66-96 despite good seasons from the expensive bullpen signees.

by andujar on Sep 15, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay.....

So if that is true, if we aren’t a SS and closer, or better bullpen away from contending, what should the plan be? I mean, THIS was suppose to be a rebuilding year for next year. Is that still the plan? What moves need to be made to make us contenders?

by SoonerfanTU on Sep 15, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What

are you saying? That we are only a SS and a closer away from contending?

I’d say, for this year, up until the last week, we “contended” with the SS we have, and that the largest “hole” on this team was at the end of the bullpen. Which is why I think many might think that should be their #1 priority for next year, the recent ups and downs of Chris Perez notwithstanding.

I think there’s some merit there, although you also have to account for the departure of Lohse and Looper (either by re-signing one or both, signing another veteran or two, or counting on your system.)

As for the SS, I’m sure there is going to be support for brinigng Izturis back. There are ways to win with light hitting, good glove MI guys. Just because there is a historically rich crop of slugging MIs in the majors right now doesn’t mean you have to have one to win. I do think, however, that without one, you better be prepared to win many pitching battles – which means having an elite closer.

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Sep 15, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the way

I’m not challenging SoonerFan’s post or arguing. I’m just asking him to clarify what he’s saying in that first sentence. Tone is sometimes in these threads.

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Sep 15, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In a way.....

Depending on who the SS is, I’d say so.

Offense was streaky, but solid overall. Everybody worth anything is under contract for next year. I’d resign Miles for the bench, Lopez to start at 2B, and go find a SS.

Closer, or really good bullpen arm, doesn’t really matter. I don’t think we can afford K-Rod or Fuentes, but somebody of that ilk would be nice.

I don’t think anybody will argue that we are set at 1B, 3B, and C. Outfield, decisions will have to be made, but surely between Skip, Ludwick, Ankiel, Duncan, Mather, Barton, and Rasmus we can find 3-4 good players.

The rotation needs to resign Looper and/or Lohse, or go get a guy like Burnett/Lowe.

Those of you saying we need more, what would our record have looked like 2-3 weeks ago, had we had a good closer all year? We’d probably have a record very close to, or maybe even better than the Cubbies.

by SoonerfanTU on Sep 15, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

death by a thousand cuts

so many missed opportunities, the pirate sweep being the latest.
with the way the Cards are currently playing, ending below .500 is a real possibilty

…and yet, were STILL only 4.5 games back in the wildcard

Batavia’s victory was indeed the Cards’ minor league system’s first since the 2005 Palm Beach championship team. Their sweep the only bright spot of the weekend. Got 6 strong innings from their SP both games, (2008 5th rounder Scott Gorgen in game 1) shutting down a pretty solid Jamestown offense that’s team BA in the regular season was .281.

by vances law on Sep 15, 2008 2:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

thoughts about the Zambrano no hitter

does anyone else think that it was wise to let Big Z throw 110 pitches at (sometimes) 97mph? I completely understand that you don’t want to deny someone that opportunity for a no-hitter. However, we are talking about a guy who has complained twice this year of shoulder pain and would be desperately missed in the playoffs.

by FredbirdisaDork on Sep 15, 2008 2:35 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

correction

replace wise with stupid and my comment makes more sense

by FredbirdisaDork on Sep 15, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hey

if they want to shoot themselves in their foot, who are we to stop them?

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 15, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is true

But I don’t want them to have any excuses when they lose this year.

by FredbirdisaDork on Sep 15, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know, I guess we will know how Big Z feels today/tomorrow/his next start....

Then I guess it will show how wise it was to ignore the supposed pitch count he was on.

I loved Big Z’s quote (paraphrasing a bit) “I saw the gun the first inning and I was hitting 98 and 99, and I felt great. At that point I knew it was on and I was just going to challenge guys with my fastball all night”

by ICbirdfan on Sep 15, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha

Gonna be pretty tough to toss candy to the kids during the world series parade if his arm is missing

by FredbirdisaDork on Sep 15, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget

he was on 12 days rest.

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Sep 15, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If his shoulder's in no position to throw

110 pitches this time of year, he’s got no business starting. I’m not one who believes in overpitching pitchers, but 110 pitches just isn’t that many, particularly a guy like Zambrano who is in the prime of his career. He should be able to throw 110 most nights w/o problem and, since he threw a no-hitter, he was certainly dealing. He wasn’t constantly in trouble — throwing in tough situations or anything like that. If he couldn’t throw 110 pitches on a night like that, he’s got no business throwing 10.

by chuckb on Sep 15, 2008 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The next time we play them

when Big Z is pitching against us, we need to have the gun calibrated to show him pitching fast and have all our hitters sit on the fastball.

by TNCardsFan on Sep 15, 2008 2:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well...

That is what the all-seeing all-knowing Al Hrabosky says about major league hitters. Thankfully we get reminded of it every single time Jason Motte or Chris Perez take the hill. Sometimes I think that Al believes that he is actually on the radio and that if he doesn’t talk… the dead air will trigger an automatic commercial.

by FredbirdisaDork on Sep 15, 2008 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the Astros bats were swept away with Ike.

Now Lilly has them no-hit through 3. I bet the Astros are thrilled to be playing in Milwaukee.

We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.

by KYCards on Sep 15, 2008 2:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

heh

I bet they are. they could have had their pick of stadiums but they waited until the last minute.

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 15, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ned Yost just got fired

announced during the Cubs/Astros game. heh.

I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps.

by madding on Sep 15, 2008 3:05 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oh now that is rich!!

Too bad it’s 2 months too late. They should have fired that clown a LONG time ago. Any news on who is replacing him?

We’ve got a long way to go and a short time to get there.

by KYCards on Sep 15, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think its Dale Sveum

Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me......with nothin'.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

by Tackle Box on Sep 15, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I see that now

I wonder why they made that choice.

I’ll give them TLR for Bill Hall, straight up.

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I though you were against no-hit, no-defense players?

Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me......with nothin'.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

by Tackle Box on Sep 15, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

um....no?

From what I can tell, LaRussa is making 4.25M next year and Hall is making 6.8M next year and 8.4M in 2010.

Unless I’m missing something?

Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me......with nothin'.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

by Tackle Box on Sep 15, 2008 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Simba was reassigned per article

Report on MLB.com has Simmons getting moved out of the dugout as well.

by ubeddie on Sep 15, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

shouldn't that be one year and

two months ago?

That beanball series against us last year was plain dumb managing. A manager trying to win over players when he should be wanting to win games.

by enoscountry on Sep 15, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not good for us.....

With all that talent, if they get a real manager, they’ll be tough.

by SoonerfanTU on Sep 15, 2008 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

a said that this morning

“Yost is toast”

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 15, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

haha

That made me feel better.

by Evilfrog on Sep 15, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interim Manager for last two weeks - how absurd

How much of a hot seat is Doug Melvin on these days? He just announced an interim manager with 12 games to play to make the playoffs. Can’t wait for him to announce Davey Johnson is going to come in and, over the course of less than two weeks, get the players to beat a quality opponent.

Maybe upper management in Milwaukee was pissed to see how much fun the crowd was having at last night’s Cub’s game in their house !! Don’t look for any Under Armour deals with the Brewers.

by ubeddie on Sep 15, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

this is absurd!

they’re going to go into the postseason (maybe) w/ an interim manager who’s been in charge all of 12 games? Either Melvin places no significance on what a manager does — just fills out the lineup card and change pitchers — or places far too much signinficance on what he does. I’m no Yost fan but the timing is simply bizarre.

by chuckb on Sep 15, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Come on!

That’s it? That’s the response? No pertinent references at all? Come on VEB! Where is “He’s not a Milwaukee Man!”???

Too far back for most of you??

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Sep 16, 2008 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure what would be more frustrating

to be the Astros, in Milwaukee and getting no-hit… again? to be the Brewers, tanking… again? or to be the Cardinals, completely paralyzed and unable to seize any opportunities?

I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps.

by madding on Sep 15, 2008 3:18 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

a little curious...

as to why the brewers would do this now…I still think they have a better than avg shot at taking the wc, this could work either way for them. Bernie the brewer should be calling the shots.

But that's not everywhere. I asked one friend, a lifelong Cardinals fan, a lifelong Cubs hater, a sensitive soul who admits bawling like a baby during Brian's Song, if maybe he could feel glad if the Cubs finally win. After all, it has been a 100 years. He looked at me as if I had asked him if he felt any sympathy at all for Attila the Hun. "I hope they lose for another 100 years," he said. "At least by then, I'll be dead."-espn.com article

by those are cobras, man. on Sep 15, 2008 3:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

There could be some clubhouse or

intra-organizational nastiness going on, I guess.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Sep 15, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Continuing on Larry's post about bad Septembers

this is what it looks like:

2008: 4-8 (including a 5 game losing streak while the WC leaders lose 7 of 8)
2007: 13-18 (including 4 losses to CHC, who won the division by 7 games)
2006: 12-16 (including 5 losses to HOU, who lost the division by 1.5 games -Thanks Bobby!)
2005: 13-13 (including 3 losses to HOU, who won WC by 1.0)
2004: 16-12 (including 5 losses to HOU, who won WC by 1.0)
2003: 13-13 (inluding 4 loses to CHC, 3 loses to HOU, finished 3.0 GB of CHC, 2.0 GB of HOU)

That’s a whole lotta fail. We’ve screwed ourselves out of playoff spots, we’ve handed them to teams that eventually beat us in the postseason and we almost gave away a World’s Championship if not for the Braves bailing us out.

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2008 3:23 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah but..

In ’04 and ’05 they had the division locked up early and I think that they were trying to play it safe and not kill anybody for the playoffs… Which is actually pretty sad that the records in those years were equal to, if not better, than the other years where they were really “fighting” for a playoff spot.

by FredbirdisaDork on Sep 15, 2008 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I took a quick glance at hitters in Sept

If all the guys over the years hit like Albet in Sept, the Cards would be just fine.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 15, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Albert in Sept 2003-2008

.341 avg/ .449 obp/ .637 slg/ 1.085 ops

WOW

by ICbirdfan on Sep 15, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

didn't Darry Kile die in 2003? wasn't that the year the Cards had starter & bull pen issues...

I seem to remember threr was a moth streatch where the Cards did not win a game unless they scored at least 13 runs.

I am too lazy to look into it, but as pointed out 2004 & 2005 were years they had prety much clinched the division which can speak of pulling back a bit in Sept.

I don’t know if the trend is that bad once you look at it…..

by ICbirdfan on Sep 15, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

injuries injuries injuries

and the Cards refusal to shut down those injured players is why they suck in September. its almost that simple HL. the last two seasons we’ve lost almost the entire team to season ending injuries late in the year, hence the horrible September records. in 06 a lot of the guys were playing hurt, remember for instant IZZY’s hip gave out on him & TRL refused to shut him down. 04 & 05 they had huge leads & just played out the schedule till October.

now some things need to change ASAP for the Cards. 1. the Cards need to stop having key players go down with injuries late in the year. how can they stop that? i don’t know. that’s something those bastard coated bastards with bastard filling GOB’s can handle.

2. TRL & MO need to recognize when a player is too hurt to play, shut him down & call up someone to replace him immediately. with the farm system finally starting to grow there really is almost no excuse to run out a player who clearly is not able to preform. if they do that, we will no longer see MI’s playing out of position & Aaron F’ing Miles playing CF.

3. if TRL & MO can’t do that, then Dewitt needs to find two guys who can. damn the players ego’s, damn trying to get a vet to a career milestone, damn not trusting a young kid to make it in the big leagues. play the best players no matter what.

4. take out the trash. stop having old & busted vets take up major playing time & a roster spot from younger, better, cheaper players. no more retreads like Floppy. no more LOOGY’s that can’t get out most of our grandma’s. no more Aaron F’ing Miles playing all over the damn field. and for the love of everything holy, NO MORE AK & IZ2.

i’m sure i’m leaving something out, but i strongly feel if all 4 of those things are implemented by the Cardinals, their September swoon’s will be a thing of the past.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Sep 15, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're right...

sadly, i think this is a tlr/cards medical staff thing.

mo didn’t change a thing from the jocketty regime in terms of the handling of injuries. players are still brought back from the DL too soon, kept from going on it for too long. it’s absurd.

by RedbirdAvenger on Sep 15, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or maybe it's just a run of bad luck?

2-3 years with a couple of players with weird, or difficult to diagnose/treat injuries?

by SoonerfanTU on Sep 15, 2008 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

a couple of players?

do you call Troy, Ank, Yadda, Carp, Bombs, Barton, IZZY, a couple of players? and that’s just from this season, do need i go on & list every player that’s gone down with an injury late in the year over the last 3 seasons?

it’s not just a couple of players man. when Aaron F’ing Miles is starting in the OF, you’ve got major, major health issues.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Sep 15, 2008 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You aren't following.....

We’re discussing guys that were “forced” to play injured, that maybe shouldn’t have.

Yadi, Carp, Mather, Barton, and arguably the rest of them don’t really apply. You could maybe argue Ankiel and Izzy. Those are the only two that fit.

by SoonerfanTU on Sep 16, 2008 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i seriously have no idea what you are talking about

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Sep 16, 2008 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just let him go

it’s pointless to argue with him about it anymore.

It’s almost like Chris Duncan didn’t play hurt all year. Or David Eckstein played with an oblique injury in September of last year. Or Edmonds played a month with a concussion until someone realized he was dizzy all the time.

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 16, 2008 1:05 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yadi and Carp didn't play

when they shouldn’t have?!?

Are we talking about the same team?

There is a question that could be raised about Barton but with his Rule V status I’ll let it go.

Mather is just another issue all together.

by Harknights on Sep 16, 2008 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As soon as Mather and Barton got hurt.....

The frickin’ next day, they were DL’d. No?

What injury did Yadi play through that he shouldn’t have?

And no, I don’t think Carp did either. He needed to throw to see how is thought-to-be healthy arm would respond.

by SoonerfanTU on Sep 16, 2008 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yost Fired?

Saw it on Brew Crew Ball, and they say it has been confirmed.

by StLHugo on Sep 15, 2008 3:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

OT: Adopted playoff teams?

I know its pre-mature, but I am thinking of rooting for the Rays… Just to stick up ESPN’s nose if they should win it all.

by FredbirdisaDork on Sep 15, 2008 3:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Angels

and maybe the Rays. For some reason, I don’t like the Rays as much since they changed their name for no apparent reason.

Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me......with nothin'.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

by Tackle Box on Sep 15, 2008 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like the Rays

I agree that the name change was stupid, but I really like Joe Maddon. I also think it would be funny to see playoff games with empty seats… Actually that wouldnt’ be funny so much as it would be odd

by FredbirdisaDork on Sep 15, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i like the name change

the only (very short-lived) “tradition” they had as the devil rays was being the worst team in baseball. i also really like their ownership.

by adiueordie on Sep 15, 2008 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But they changed it to Rays...

as in sun rays. I think that’s silly.

Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me......with nothin'.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

by Tackle Box on Sep 15, 2008 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

thats not completly true

they do have a sun burst on their uni but they also still have a devil ray on their sleeve and on their road hats, as well. It is all done for marketing so the team can make more money so i wouldn’t call it silly even if you don’t like the new/shortened name because it has given them a new persona and so far it is working.

"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum

by nomar34 on Sep 16, 2008 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what do you mean by "it is working"?

Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me......with nothin'.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

by Tackle Box on Sep 16, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ABC

Anybody But Cubs (and Bosox)

Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2

by gocards62 on Sep 15, 2008 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

gotta go NL

so Dodgers or DBacks. If they’re out, then I root Phillies, maybe Mets, unless either of those teams are playing the Angels, or maybe the Rays… let me re-phrase that.

1. Dodgers
2. Diamondbacks
3. Angels
4. Phillies
5. Rays
6. Mets
7. Anyone but the Cubs or Brewers.

by adiueordie on Sep 15, 2008 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow...

Astros have a guy named Mark Sacommano… Wonder if he is any relation to Bob Sacommano (who sold Rat Hats in battery Park for $50 bucks) :)

by FredbirdisaDork on Sep 15, 2008 3:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow

That wasn’t an error.

by Phizzle on Sep 15, 2008 4:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ball took a short hop off of Aramis Ramirez's glove

bounced to the SS who almost got Abercrombie at first.

Anyway, it’s a moot point now, since the next guy singled.

by Phizzle on Sep 15, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay

We sweep the Reds, Cubs sweep the Brewers, Braves sweep the Phillies and Marlins sweep the Astros. We’re 1.5 games out with 10 to play.

Who’s with me?!?!

"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something."

by Andie203 on Sep 15, 2008 5:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I am!

Then, just for giggles, lets see a five way tie at the end of the season for the WC, and see how Bud sorts it all out.

One day, the dream will come true.

by brianp88 on Sep 15, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Braves won't win a game

vs the Phillies. The Phillies may not lose a game the rest of the way out.

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 15, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

why ARE they...

so damn good in september??

by RedbirdAvenger on Sep 15, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

watching White Sox vs. Yankees

Larussa is sitting in the box seats watching the game… Thought it was kind of funny.

Must want to catch Yankee stadium before it’s too late.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 15, 2008 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hey you are right, there he is!

who was the hot blond with him?

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Sep 15, 2008 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

from stltoday:

Manager Tony La Russa will speak this afternoon to a group of cadets in West Point, N.Y., at the U.S. Army’s military academy, before heading back to New York City to spend the off day saying farewell to a rival’s old home, Yankee Stadium. La Russa has been planning a pilgrimage to the ballpark in the Bronx for several months.

He will be the guest of Chicago White Sox Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf, and he said he’ll be accompanied by his friend, retired Gen. Hal Moore, who marched into Yankee Stadium as a cadet. This is the last home stand at Yankee Stadium before it is demolished.

“I’m fired up,” La Russa said. “I’m going to see as much as I can. I’m eager to see it and experience as much as I can of it.”

by adiueordie on Sep 15, 2008 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Impact MIF bat

I know his defense is weak to say the least, but what about Dan Uggla? The Marlins have a bunch of arb eligible players so he could probably be had. They have been clammering for a catcher, so why not Anderson and one of our pitching prospects for Uggla? We could even send an outfielder over, since we will still have an abundance next year.

"Here's how I look at the choice Americans face in this election. In politics, there are some candidates who use change to promote their careers," she said. "And then there are those, like John McCain, who use their careers to promote change."-Sarah Palin

by showmejoe on Sep 15, 2008 7:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

possible

they don’t need a right fielder, have hermida, am pretty sure maybin is plugged in for center next year, left field = willingham, maybe gonzo, other spare part? ludwick would probably satisfy them straight up for uggla talent wise, but only puts them off a couple years before arb years, but they don’t need skip or barton, etc they would lose too many home runs and rbi’s relative to uggla. was a time we might have had him for reyes and cd (posted over the winter), but not now.

"No matter where you go, there you are" Buckeroo Bonzai Across the 8th Dimension

by sportsman on Sep 15, 2008 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

until they considered Lopez at 2B

the idea of Uggla horrified me. Now I’m praying they figure out a way to bring him over.

"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar

by SleepyCA on Sep 15, 2008 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know

if we go 13-0 the rest of the way out, we will win the Wild Card?

Just food for thought. Have we put Miles in the rotation yet?

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 16, 2008 1:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Miles new nickname should be Bugs Bunny.

Nothin'. A handful of nothin'. You stupid mullet head. He beat you with nothin'. Just like today when he kept comin' back at me......with nothin'.

Yeah, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand.

by Tackle Box on Sep 16, 2008 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

GOLD!

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Never thought I'd say this but....

Let’s go Cubs…..
and Marlins
and Braves

by TNCardsFan on Sep 16, 2008 8:51 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Anyone else see what I saw last night?

While watching the White Sox / Yanks tilt, they cut away to a crowd shot of … Tony LaRussa in his skivvies, watching the game like any other fan.

What was he doing in NY on his off day? Going to a ballgame? Seriously? Some secret scouting mission, perhaps.

And don’t we all feel sorry for the grandstanding Brewers (Hall/Weeks/Braun/etc) as they slip into a swirling september storm culvert of despair?

There's some fucking pros out there that wanna fucking play the game ... ... but you're stuck in the fucking stigma of the fucking Dodgers, and the Phillies, and the Cardinals, and all that cheap shit.

by Urban Pawnee on Sep 16, 2008 8:59 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

He was in his underwear?

From here:

Manager Tony La Russa will speak this afternoon to a group of cadets in West Point, N.Y., at the U.S. Army’s military academy, before heading back to New York City to spend the off day saying farewell to a rival’s old home, Yankee Stadium. La Russa has been planning a pilgrimage to the ballpark in the Bronx for several months.

He will be the guest of Chicago White Sox Chairman Jerry Reinsdorf, and he said he’ll be accompanied by his friend, retired Gen. Hal Moore, who marched into Yankee Stadium as a cadet. This is the last home stand at Yankee Stadium before it is demolished.

“I’m fired up,” La Russa said. “I’m going to see as much as I can. I’m eager to see it and experience as much as I can of it.”

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Sep 16, 2008 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if he was in his underwear

he should be fired. That is just an embarrassment to the franchise .

I say this even though I have never seen Tony in his undies.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Sep 16, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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