Sweet Relief. . .for a Price

by azruavatar on Sep 12, 2008 9:00 AM EDT

The Cardinals accumulated an absurd number of blown saves this year. We've heard the stat quoted time and time again on broadcasts, and it's hard not to wonder where the team would be if they could have held it together. Rumors abounded at the trade deadline of the Cardinals' interest in Colorado lefty Brian Fuentes. That trade never materialized but it's safe to say that the team was making inquiries.

Several writers have tossed out the Cardinals as being one of the teams that will be interested in Francisco Rodriguez as he arrives at free agency this offseason. He's going to get a lot of ink in the press having tied the single season saves record. Rodriguez is primed for a big payday despite having one of his "worst" years statistically. I put that in quotes because he still has a FIP of 3.22 which is hardly something to sniff at.

While I want to believe that the Cardinals are going to hand the job to the player they drafted specifically to be their closer (i.e. Young Pitcher), all the troubles they've had and Tony's propensity for wanting a veteran in that role makes me wring my hands a bit. The addition of either Fuentes or K-Rod isn't, necessarily, a bad acquisition. They're both good players but the question is always what value they provide relative to other options.

The ninth inning has belonged to Jason Isringhausen, Ryan Franklin and Chris Perez for the majority of they year. They've pitched 18, 34 and 28 times in the ninth respectively. Obviously, there's a ton of games where a long man or lessor pitcher is finishing a blow out or even a few when our starters held on to pitch in the 9th. Those three, however, are the prime suspects this season. This season they've posted FIPs of 3.92, 4.81 and 4.84 respectively. In the 9th inning, we're looking at a weighted FIP of 4.62 from those three this season. (Note: I'm playing a little loose and fast with these numbers -- I'm aware of that. I don't think there's anything terribly out of sync yet.)

You'd expect Chris Perez might struggle a bit over the course of the season and K-Rod/Fuentes are going to be closer to career numbers. The addition of either of those players really isn't going to bump Perez from the roster. It's more likely to remove some of those replacement level innings from guys like Jimenez, Flores, etc. Still, let's see what the differences are in terms of runs for some eyeballed projections for next year.

Name	FIP	Runs
Young Pitcher	4.00	27
K-Rod	3.00	20
Fuentes	3.75	25
Replacement Level	6.00	40

We're not talking about a significant difference in terms of run prevention when these relievers are only going to throw about 60 innings. Some very smart people (Tom Tango, for one) will argue that the leverage of the innings should be included in the valuation of the innings. That is to say that the higher leverage situations (often times late innings) are more valuable in terms of run prevention than other innings. I'm not part of that bandwagon but there's a reasonable argument to be made that these players are far more impactful than a 2 win upgrade.

Baseball Prospectus' primary stat for reliever's value is WXRL (Win Expectation above Replacement, Lineup-adjusted). For 2008, K-Rod is currently at 5.6 wins and Fuentes is at 3.4 wins. If we use 4 million dollars as our baseline for the cost of each win when purchasing a free agent -- a number that Tango has calculated based on total wins and the amoung of $$$ in baseball players, which I think is now at 4.4/win -- it's easy to see those contracts getting big quickly. Mariano Rivera inked a 3/45M dollar deal with the Yankees making him the highest paid reliever to date. It's not inconceivable that both Fuentes and Rodriguez could surpass that number.

Again, I'm hopeful the Cardinals aren't going to pursue these players. I don't think the cost is going to be close to the marginal value (espcially since I don't agree with leverage theory). That said, it's possible that they will and certain that writers will speculate that they will. With pitchers like Perez, Jason Motte and Kyle McClellan, the Cardinals have options but will they put their faith in the kids (or even Ryan Franklin) or look for external options to an area that has been, without question, a significant problem for the Cardinals in 2008.

Friday News 'n Notes:

The Cardinals have agreed to a deal with Memphis that will keep the team as their AAA affiliate for 4 more years. This is somewhat of a surprise to me in terms of length when they could have signed a 2-year commitment. Seems like a good idea for both sides though.
Wouldn't this be cool. . .
Brad Thompson's getting the start tonight after the Cardinals had Lohse drop his suspension appeal. Joe Strauss, on Team 1380 yesterday afternoon, wondered if Lohse wasn't a bit miffed by being bumped back in the rotation. Wonder if this impacts the Cardinals' interest in Lohse this offseason.\
In that same link, Carp is being shutdown for the season.
You'll forgive me for not buying the company line on Rasmus' knee. Either the Cardinals sent him back to play minor league baseball before he was cleared for baseball activities or they're trying to use his knee as an excuse now. Can't have your cake and eat it too.

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I think we're being a bit unfair to Perez...

in the above analysis. Since coming back to the bigs on 8/06 he’s put up a VERY solid line. 13.1 IP, 8 hits, 4 BB’s, 16 K’s, 3 ER’s (on back to back blown saves). He has a 2.06 ERA and .92 WHIP in this time with 7 saves in 9 opp’s. He’s also young and should improve overall…I don’t expect him to do better than a 2.06 ERA. I vote against Fuentes who IMO is at best marginally better than Young Pitcher while significantly more expensive. KRod while probably a good deal better will likely get 5 years at $13 mil/yr (at least)…compare that to the $13 million (total) we will pay Perez over the same period of time. Also K-Rod is 3.5 years older than Perez – and has a lot more mileage on his arm.

by cardzfanbub on Sep 12, 2008 9:23 AM EDT 0 recs

FWIW

KRod told Mike DiGiovanna of the LA Times he’d take a 4 year deal with an option for a 5th year.

LA Times Article

I’m not sure if that offer is exclusive to the Angels, but I figued I’d throw it out there.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Sep 12, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up 0 recs

I saw that...

I figure he’d get $15m/yr at least if he took a four year deal…basically same deal as Rivera with an extra year. I still wouldn’t do it.

by cardzfanbub on Sep 12, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up 0 recs

Crazy

There is no way the Cards should pay a closer 70-80 innings $15 million a year. That is roughly 12.5% payroll (assuming Cards have payroll of 120 million) for 4% of the total innings pitched. The Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, Dodgers, Mets are a better fit though the mets are the only team w/ closer needs.

by njnick on Sep 12, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up 0 recs

Imagine...

…if we did get KRod – I mean if yer gonna break the bank you might as well go for the big gun, right? If we did, we cud use Perez as primary set-up (and give him a couple of extra years to learn the closer trade), along with Motte, Franklin, etc. We would STILL, however, need to sign a solid lefty (Damaso Marte is the one I keep championing). Signing Fuentes would give us a closer and a solid lefty in one go, except he’s not as good as KRod and not a whole bunch better than Perez in his better mooments. We cud probably get Fuentes for 3 years, but we’d probably have to go to 5 years with KRod, meaning Perez would have a long time to wait before closing again. if we sign Fuentes as our closer we’d STILL have to sign an-udder lefty to use in non-closing situations, only we probably cudn’t afford Marte then. We’d have to go the Embree route.

If, cowever, we’re committed to Perez as closer, it wouldn’t make sense to sign KRod at all, obviously. Fuentes would still be a good signing as primo set-up guy and occasional closer, keeping in mind, again, that we’d still need an-udder lefty in the pen.

I say get Fuentes & Marte or Embree and try to lock down a SP and a SS.

Oh, and if we can pull off a trade with Atlanta for Kelly Johnson we should do that too!

:=8)

by The MooCow on Sep 12, 2008 9:48 AM EDT 0 recs

hah..

“interested” in k-rod.. sure.. As far as leverage with fuentes (or some other reliever that’ll go under the radar because of k-rod’s press) goes probably, but nothing more.

by Birds on the Matt on Sep 12, 2008 9:57 AM EDT 0 recs

No K-Rod

There are going to be two holes in the starting rotation that need solving first with Looper and Lohse becoming FAs. Then the outfield situation needs to be firmed up to make room for Rasmus to start. Schu is more valuable to smaller market teams from a cost/ability viewpoint as a starter for us to waste as a fourth outfielder. Trade him for LHP bullpen support.

A 2009 bullpen of Perez, K-Mac, Franklin, Motte, Kinney, Springer, lefty 1 and lefty 2 is enough to help the team regress back to the mean in Blown Saves.

by ubeddie on Sep 12, 2008 10:24 AM EDT 0 recs

SIGH

I realized last night Franklin is signed for 2009. I walked into the room last night, saw him coming in, and started cursing.

by sdrone on Sep 12, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up 0 recs

yeah

I texted tackle box last night when bowling was over and I saw Franklin entering the game: “what the hell is Franklin doing in the game”

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Sep 12, 2008 1:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

can't forget about pinero

he’ll either be in the rotation or the pen.

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Sep 12, 2008 2:42 PM EDT up 0 recs

Rasmus

I don’t remember how many games he played in A ball after coming back (I actually thought he went to Memphis), but it probably wasn’t many. And how is that not telling of his injury situation? With the struggles Memphis was having in putting 3 OF’s in any given game, had Rasmus been anywhere near healthy, I’m sure he would have goteen the call.

by SoonerfanTU on Sep 12, 2008 10:33 AM EDT 0 recs

then AZ's point rings true

they had no business running him out there to A ball if his knee wasn’t healthy. Either he’s healthy enough to run the bases and run down balls in the OF, or he’s not and, if he’s not, they shouldn’t have put him back out there. Matt Leach’s article says that the Cards “are still hoping (Rasmus) can play winter ball” — implying that the health of his knee is so tenuous that he might not be able to play winter ball. So why’d they rush him back to play a week’s worth of Class A ball games? Mozeliak says he’s not cleared to play baseball right now — yet he was cleared to play a week ago.

Oh well, at least we can always run Aaron Miles back out to LF again.

by chuckb on Sep 12, 2008 11:20 AM EDT up 0 recs

Maybe Rasmus had a setback?

You know, sometimes you just don’t know how you are health-wise, until you play a few games. How many times do you see that in the majors? A guy comes back, maybe a little too early, plays a game or two, then misses another week? Happens quite a bit.

Best I can tell, Rasmus played in THREE games. To me, that is about the right amount of time to see where he is at, injury-wise.

by SoonerfanTU on Sep 12, 2008 11:50 AM EDT up 0 recs

I really don't know what the deal with his knee is....

However I would rather be safe than sorry. I don’t get it, people get pissed off because they were not careful with Ankiel and now people want to throw the best prospect in the organiztion to the wolves?

Why even risk getting him hurt. Maybe after his short rehab stint they figured he needed a certin amount of time to heal because he really needed to play winter ball. I think its stupid to bring him up to play 15 games and then he can’t play winter ball because he hurts himself worse.

I say leave him be. Being overly cautious is not bad

by ICbirdfan on Sep 12, 2008 12:30 PM EDT up 0 recs

Overly cautious would have meant

not playing him AT ALL. It doesn’t mean allowing him to finish a minor league season by playing a few games and then saying, “Gee, he’s just not healthy enough to play CF in Busch.” If we want to be cautious, I’d have had no problem w/ that but that wasn’t the approach the team took. The team decided to run him out there to finish off a minor league season. Then, in order to justify not calling him up, they pull this “he’s not healthy enough” stuff out of their you-know-what. Nothing wrong w/ the cautious approach. It would have been justifiable if the team had chosen it.

by chuckb on Sep 12, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up 0 recs

Two words: Rehab assignment

Rasmus was on a rehad assignment in Florida. Running him out there is what rehabs are for. Are you suggesting Rasmus should have tested out his recovery by being called up to start in CF?

by ubeddie on Sep 12, 2008 12:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

Maybe he should have seen the doctor before

his rehab assignment then. If they weren’t sure whether the crown jewel of the system was healthy or not and then played him in some meaningless Florida League games, shame on them.

In all liklihood though, this is a case of “Hey Colby, your injured…in case you didn’t know.”

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Sep 12, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up 0 recs

You never know..

Maybe the doc said no structural damage. Do these exercise’s to help strenghten the knee, test it out and see how it feels. Sometime you don’t know until you try it out. Maybe they were not concerned about him hurting himself worse at the time by testing it out. He did not play many rehab games, possibly because his knee started to hurt a bit more.

Now the club felt it’s best for him to fully rest it and then start winter ball. He has missed too much time and at his age he just needs as many ABs as possbile. I think that may be the best route for him to be ready for next year.

I don’t care, I would rather be safe and not have him try to play 15 games and maybe hurt himself worse. Maybe he can’t play any winter ball and it’s not good as he needs ABs. His playing a full winter season is more important than the final game of the MLB season.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 12, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

It was a rehab assignment

Where is Mo saying his knee is in worse shape than before because of the rehab? The 6 game assignment at the end of the minor league season showed that he is not ready to be activated to play CF for the MLB team. End of rehab, end of 2008 for Rasmus, end of story, see you in ST.

by ubeddie on Sep 12, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up 0 recs

I'm saying the

“he’s not healthy enough” meme is complete and total BS. They didn’t want to call him up, so they didn’t. They’re just lying about why. If he wasn’t healthy enough, they shouldn’t have played him in the first place. Give him time to heal. I’ve got no problem w/ that.

by chuckb on Sep 12, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up 0 recs

And that is your OPINION.....

Too bad nobody on this board knows for sure.

by SoonerfanTU on Sep 12, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yawn!

Cards’ management is infallible! Everything they do is for the good of the players, the good of the organization, and the good of the fans. Do not question! DO NOT QUESTION!!!

by chuckb on Sep 12, 2008 11:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

IMO

The options on August 22 were to allow him to test out his knee in some low A live baseball games or shut him down until winter ball options opened up. He is ineligible for Fall baseball so running him out there for six games of live baseball is in my opinion has a purpose, last chance to play live ball for the next few months.

Either way the knee injury knocked him not only out of the olympics but from a 2008 call up. He isn’t ready to play MLB for the first time after only six games against low A pitching following a six week lay off due to knee injury.

by ubeddie on Sep 12, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up 0 recs

fine

then why risk it with 6 games of law-A pitching? If he’s not healthy, he’s not healthy. If he is healthy, why lie to us about him being healthy?

by chuckb on Sep 12, 2008 11:40 PM EDT up 0 recs

Again It was the only chance to face Live baseball for 3 months

In looking at the quote linked by az, I don’t see where Mo says he isn’t healthy. I do see that he hasn’t recovered enough in a baseball sense to face MLB pitching. That is my read of the quote and analysis of the activities.

The window of opportunity to have any rehab assignment was closing. If the knee was a problem with the rehab, he would have been shut down after one game. Rasmus knew before the rehab that he was not being called up and the plan was to play out the last six games.

Rasmus would have been called up if he wasn’t 1) scheduled for the olympics and 2) didn’t injure his knee.

by ubeddie on Sep 13, 2008 11:12 AM EDT up 0 recs

Sorry....

…I love Rassy as moooch as the next Cards fan, but he needs to earn his way into the outfield.
:=8/

by The MooCow on Sep 12, 2008 10:34 AM EDT 0 recs

what

a .251/.346/.396 line in triple A isn’t good enough?

by Evilfrog on Sep 12, 2008 10:39 AM EDT up 0 recs

while I don't think it is good enough myself

this came up last night in the game thread, but look at ellsbury’s 2007 AAA line. It was worse than Colby’s, yet he made a tremendous difference in the boston world series run…

Of course, he might also have been damaged by being brought up too soon. Sub-.700 OPS this season with the sox.

"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar

by SleepyCA on Sep 12, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up 0 recs

.388 BABIP wheeeeeeee....

Kosuke Fukudome: $55 million.262 .362 .381
Skip Schumaker: $Free .306 .364 .417
Skippy needs a new publicist

by joker24 on Sep 12, 2008 12:40 PM EDT up 0 recs

yeah, the GOB loved Ellsbury last year

but who is to say they wouldn’t have loved colby just as much? Or, uh, Young 3B? Anything can happen in 33 games.

The knee injury makes it all hypothetical, of course.

"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar

by SleepyCA on Sep 12, 2008 12:48 PM EDT up 0 recs

Shouldn't that be not-so Young 3B?

But the lack of he or Barden getting any starts is ridiculous to me. It basically says the organization has no plans for them.

by OCCardsFan on Sep 12, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up 0 recs

Relievers

I’d like to make a splash this offseason, I’m just not sure what the right moves are. Would it be nice to have K-Rod? Absolutely. Just not sure, for our team, he’s worth what he’ll be asking. I’d like Fuentes too, but I don’t see him as a full-time closer. Would love to have him in a floating role of closer/setup/LOOGY, but from what I’ve read, he wants to close.

The LOOGY I’d like to see us get is Ohman, but I question his some things about him fitting in. Dude was a Grade A butthole to the STL fans before a game the last time they came to town.

by SoonerfanTU on Sep 12, 2008 10:39 AM EDT 0 recs

+1

I’d rather invest $5M in a very good LOOGY than $15M+ on a reliever that is not $14M better than Perez.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Sep 12, 2008 10:41 AM EDT up 0 recs

Agree

K-Rod is not a luxury the Cardinals can afford. Paying 12-15 million per season for about 70 innings is absurd. Plus, with his mechanics I just dont trust him to stay healthy for the entire contract. And if he is not healthy for that ENTIRE contract it will become even more of an albatross. Look at Billy Wagner – He may miss for than a season. I would much rather gamble on a starting pitcher for that investment.

Seems as though Fuentes will cost too much to be a LOOGY/setup guy. I dont trust him closing either.

by njnick on Sep 12, 2008 12:20 PM EDT up 0 recs

i'd also suspect

that he wouldn’t sign with a team unless he had a gentleman’s agreement that he’s the “closer” going in to the season…

"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar

by SleepyCA on Sep 12, 2008 12:31 PM EDT up 0 recs

hard not to be pessimistic at this point

I think the Cards passed their event horizon and its time to talk about getting ’em next year.

not counting Encarnacion (who I often forget is still on the team), Clement and Mulder, we’re heading into the ‘final turn’ lacking, from what we envisioned as our best roster in spring training, our CF, 3B, C, LF, #1A SP, #1 LH reliever and closer

add in our top prospect is shut out of the bigs and our top pitching prospect is shut down for the year and potentially career. Burn some more incense, Aki.

The Glaus injury was the straw that broke the camel’s back….wouldn’t be september if we didn’t have a sore shouldered 3B.

IBB to AK….thought it was a stupid idea at the time as it greatly improved Pujls chances of batting again in the 9th. Pujols comes up in the game situation….an appropriate natural consequence would be walk off retribution. But the Baseball gods have it in for us this year(s)……………..

re the extra points:
1) from the Birdhouse article, seems like Memphis really pushed for a 4 year deal. Sounds like a good fit for both clubs, glad the Cards didn’t shoot themselves in the foot
on this

2) the timing of dropping the suspension appeal is a bit strange….don’t see that it impacts our plans for Lohse, my guess is we have none.

3) Carp being shut down for the season….didn’t see that coming. oh wait……
Just hope he’s ready to go next season

by vances law on Sep 12, 2008 10:42 AM EDT 0 recs

next season depends on the health of Carpenter and Wainwright

I wonder if trouting Rick out into Left field is to get him used to it. Though with his arm you would think he would be in right if not Center.

Ludwick/Rasmus/Ankiel makes me all giddy inside. Barton and Skippy on the bench also makes me giddy inside. Of course, so would trading skippy and having barton/Mather on the bench…. I like our outfield for next year no matter who makes it.

Perez my not be called the closer now. But I have a feeling he is pitching for the job next year.

Really it’s just getting a good middle infielder and some LRP. If we can get those two things this team can be a championship team.

by Evilfrog on Sep 12, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up 0 recs

You're giddy?

Maybe you haven’t read this quote yet.

by chuckb on Sep 12, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up 0 recs

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

I most admit that that quote also makes me giddy.

by Evilfrog on Sep 12, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up 0 recs

my two cents...

1.) I don’t mind holding back on Rasmus, but I hate this stuff about him allegedly being in TLR’s “doghouse”…he hasn’t even BEEN here yet…let him prove or disprove himself on this level before he gets the Reyes treatment.

2.) Memphis and the Cards have a solid history to this point and I am glad they re-upped with them…I am a traditionalist in that regard…I long for the days when your AAA was with you for decades and they weren’t that far away geographically…it obviously helps that the big club provided them with a better on-field product that can’t hurt them at the gate.

3.) Ties are awesome, not just because of the excitement, but also because they screw with network TV post season programming plans, which have to make Bud Selig nervous…anything that does that is fine with me.

by tbell61 on Sep 12, 2008 10:58 AM EDT 0 recs

Injuries.....

Have just about killed any chance we had at making a run.

Capenter only got a couple of appearances, now he is shut down.

Molina is going to miss 3-4 games in the middle of an important stretch of games.

Glaus is missing anywhere from 4-5 games to the rest of the year.

We’re playing the final month of the season without 2 of our top 4 OF’s (Ankiel and Mather). And the 5th one (Barton) has missed considerable time.

You can argue that Izzy’s injury is the biggest of all. If healthy, he probably saves enough games that we’re leading or much closer to the WC.

by SoonerfanTU on Sep 12, 2008 11:13 AM EDT 0 recs

you know what...

I have been saying it all along, “don’t count on Carp”……..

The problem I have is all the “just wait till Carp comes back next year with Carp and Wainer….”

I think the team may want to address getting a top of the rotation type guy, however you can say Wainer and Welle can be your #1 and #2, but who knows if Welle can keep it up. I guess Looper came back after his first year starting and proved he could be relied upon.

Right now get used to #1 Wainer and #2 Welle……..

by ICbirdfan on Sep 12, 2008 11:19 AM EDT up 0 recs

Oh yeah and I like Welle because he misses bats, which top of the rotation guys do.

by ICbirdfan on Sep 12, 2008 11:20 AM EDT up 0 recs

I think you are spot on

the team needs to plan as if Carp will not be available and secure at least one significant SP plus a good 4/5 guy. I think many of us thought we would have a “pitching surplus” this year and we have seen how elusive that can be.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Sep 12, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up 0 recs

Completely off topic

But I was wondering about the international VEB readers. Most of you are from the US (right?), but I would like to know which countries we have covered. I read about Thailand recently. I myself am Dutch but live in Buenos Aires, Argentina. Do we at least cover all the continents?

by Woodwork on Sep 12, 2008 12:01 PM EDT 0 recs

I'm not international

But I’m curious about how someone from the Netherlands develops an interest in baseball—and are you a Cardinal fan, or do you just find this site interesting?

by Youneverknow on Sep 12, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up 0 recs

I'd like to hear from Woodwork, too

I hear Dutch baseball enthusiasts are really dedicated. I also used to follow Robert Eenhoorn when he was a minor leaguer for the Yankees.

by random on Sep 12, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up 0 recs

To continue the history lesson.......

Since 1992 I bi-annualy go to the Harlem Baseball Week with my friends. A 10 day tournament that almost always features some American college team. The only way to see top players in action close to (our) home. Saw Strassbourg pitch in july, he’s impressive. Other participants in the past included Chris Sabo, Mike Pagliarulo and more recently Teixeira and Ricky Weeks. And off course, on the Cuban team Amaury Marti. Also, we hosted the 1986 and 2006 Amateur World Championships.

And Eenhoorn is our national coach now, though it’s his last year. Other Dutchies in the majors: Rikkert Faneyte (I actually played against him when I was young), Jurrjens, van den Hurk, Balentien, and Ponson (!?). Our finest hour were the Olympics in Sydney, when we beat Cuba 4-2.

by Woodwork on Sep 12, 2008 1:05 PM EDT up 0 recs

you saw amaury marti in person? did your eyeballs explode from the sheer awesome?

i find it really interesting to hear your perspective. i am hopeful baseball can continue to gain more of an international presence. i’m sure it will never rival soccer (or futbol, or whatever) throughout the world or anything. but it is pretty cool to see the game we love so much here in the U.S. (and the caribbean, and central and south america, and japan, taiwan, and south korea, and now the netherlands somewhat and toronto a little bit too…) gain more popularity.

by mattybobo on Sep 12, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up 0 recs

We had the eyeball discussion...

here

Funny that you would think the same!

by Woodwork on Sep 12, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up 0 recs

huh. maybe his effect on the eyes relates to your merits as a person.

evil people get exploded eyeballs. really good people get their cataracts fixed or something.

by mattybobo on Sep 12, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

If that's true

It would be much worse

by Woodwork on Sep 12, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up 0 recs

Speaking of Ricky Weeks...

…I have herd that his days in a Brewer uni are just about over – what do we all think about him manning 2nd base for us next year?

by The MooCow on Sep 12, 2008 1:24 PM EDT up 0 recs

2 points to my post

1. I think Ricke Weeks is immensely talented, but I don’t think he’s particularly good at baseball.

2. Where did you hear this about him being done as a Brewer? I keep pretty close tabs on mlbtraderumors.com and don’t remember seeing anything about that. Plus, I highly doubt they re-sign Durham this offseason especially when he can’t even beat out Weeks for playing time as it is.

by Tackle Box on Sep 12, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up 0 recs

I read it somewhere this week as well.....

Nothing definitive, just suggesting that he may be the odd man out of the infield next year.

No way they’d move him within the division, and I don’t think I want him anyways.

by SoonerfanTU on Sep 12, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up 0 recs

if he's the odd man out

who is the even man in? Do they plan on moving Escobar up from AA? Or are they looking to acquire a free agent?

by Tackle Box on Sep 12, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up 0 recs

Gotta be Escobar up, Hardy over

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Sep 13, 2008 8:10 AM EDT up 0 recs

If you can remember back that far...

Did you used to post to the old pre-web USENET group in the early ’90s? It was someone Dutch in that forum got me following Eenhoorn. I think it came up as part of a discussion about Rikkert Faneyte, who was a center field prospect for the Giants about then.

by random on Sep 12, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up 0 recs

Yup

That was me. Small world.

by Woodwork on Sep 12, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up 0 recs

The first rule of Usenet

Is that we don’t talk about Usenet

by FlimtotheFlam on Sep 12, 2008 7:15 PM EDT up 0 recs

Both

While baseball is not a very popular sport in the Netherlands, we do play. My dad took me to see baseball games since I was 6, and I played for about 20 years. When I was 15, in 1985, I started listening to games (AFRTS) on my transistor radio. Lousy reception, all at night due to the time difference, so not easy but very entertaining. 1985 was a good year for the Cards (up until …., thank you Don!), and when one of my aunts went to the states she asked me which cap she should bring me. It was a close call between the Cardinals and the Orioles (I liked birds), but I made the right decision. So, baseball through my dad, Cardinals for the logo and the 1985 season. Never looked back. (Although without internet, it wasn’t easy. I bought USA today every friday to keep up, there was literaly no other way to keep informed. That’s why I looooove the internet) BTW I was amazed at that time that when I sent a letter to the Cardinals a couple of weeks later I received a signed Felix Jose (remember him?) baseball card. Too bad he never panned out.

And VEB (and other blogs like future redbirds etc.) are a very valuable source of information. Absolute top-quality. Thanks to all contributors for that.

by Woodwork on Sep 12, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up 0 recs