an extension for wellemeyer?
after the phillies lost yesterday, i was thinking the cardinals might climb past them and reclaim 2d place in the wild-card standings; instead they’re in 4th, as the astros moved past them. in truth, the three teams are tied --- they all have 67 losses. houston was 9.5 games behind the cardinals just 6 weeks ago; since then our team has gone 20-19 while the astros have gone 32-11. that’s right ---- 32-11, a .744 winning percentage. they’ve been without carlos lee during the bulk of this run; who’s picked up the slack? you’ll laugh. geoff blum has slugged .534 during the last 43 games; his career slg is .390. kaz matsui (career .393 slugger) has posted a .565 slg pct, and ty wigginton (career .463 slugger) has put up a .748 mark with 14 homers. to put that into context, pujols over the same stretch has slugged .805 with 15 homers; wigginton, in essence, has turned into albert for a third of the season. the astros’ run differential during the streak is +49, which is very good but not all that much better than the cardinals’ figure, +30 --- certainly not enough better that it should propel them 10 games upward in the standings. for the season as a whole the astros still have a negative run differential, -13, yet they’re 12 games over .500.
the game last night was essentially a replay of the sunday-night rubber game at wrigley last month, the last one carp started. he left in the 6th with an injury, you might remember, and right after he departed the cardinal infield botched two plays and turned a small rally into a 5-run outburst. last night, the miscues turned a minor threat into 4 runs. they lost a run when soriano nailed a man at the plate, another echo of the august meeting at wrigley --- he tossed a guy out in the opener of that match to keep a crucial run off the board. cubs made the plays afield, cards didn’t; i realize that’s not very penetrating analysis, but sometimes the game is not very complicated..
switching gears: for all the talk about re-signing looper and / or lohse after the season, i haven’t heard anybody make this suggestion: try to lock up wellemeyer for 2 or 3 years. he’s in his final year of arbitration eligibility and likely (educated guess) to get somewhere in the neighborhood of $3.5m for 2009; if they guarantee the guy $5m for next year and $7m for 2010, would he turn it down? i realize he’s only had 1 good season, but the cards made a similar commitment to joel pineiro last winter (2 years, $13m) based on 10 good starts. wellemeyer's season has been far better than that. if you take away one ill-advised start --- the june 13 pounding against philadelphia --- his era for the year is 3.38; brandon webb and dan haren both have 3.41 eras, for comparison’s sake. you can accuse me of cherry-picking, but the june 13 start never should have been made; wellemeyer should have been on the dl with a sore elbow (that was his only start between june 5 and june 26). it’s the second straight year wellemeyer’s elbow has acted up, which may be why the cardinals aren’t willing to gamble on a multi-year deal, but he’s got way more upside than a lohse / looper type and probably can be had for a smaller commitment of years and dollars. if it’s a choice between 2 yrs / $12m for a guy with a #2 starter ceiling, or 3 yrs / $25m for a guy with a #3 starter ceiling . . . . not a very difficult choice, is it? of course, we don’t know whether welley would be interested; he might want to keep his options open and try for a bigger payday in 2010. but i’d like to see the cardinals pursue this possibility, they gave wainwright a $15m guarantee based on 1 good season, and welley’s 2008 (non-cherrypicked) compares favorably to wainwright’s 2007 in most respects:
| W-L | ERA | IP | H | BB | SO | HR | BB/9 | K/9 | FIP | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| welleymeyer 08 | 12-6 | 3.74 | 168.1 | 155 | 51 | 116 | 21 | 2.7 | 6.2 | 4.36 |
| wainwright 07 | 14-12 | 3.70 | 202 | 212 | 70 | 136 | 13 | 1.9 | 6.0 | 3.90 |
wainwright’s performance, you’ll recall, earned him the "ace" designation; i’d argue that wellemeyer has been at least as good this year. he’ll probably end up with 190 innings or so, close to the 202 wainwright threw in 2007; he’s averaging 6 innings a start, vs wainwright’s 6.1 ip/gs average last year. not a big difference. since the all-star break (10 starts) he has gone 5-2 with a 3.25 era and a stingy .681 opponent ops. the elbow does give you pause, but he has thrown 110+ pitches in 4 of his last 6 outings, and 7 or more innings in 3 or his last 5, with no apparent ill-effects . . . . .
ok, now i’ve probably jinxed him; the guy is pitching tonight. at any rate, if the cards are going to invest multiple years in a pitcher this off-season, i’d just as soon have them invest in wellemeyer as in any of the other names you hear floating around.
0 recs |
275 comments
Comments
Yes
Sign him up! I saw Welley pitch last year in Pittsburgh and thought ‘he would make a terriffic starter next year’, and he did. I would like to lock him up maybe even go three years. If we are able to sign Lowe and have a rotation on Wainman, Carp, Lowe, Welley, and Youngster we will have one of the best roation in the NL. We will be in Pittsburgh this weekend, but only to see one game. Wainwrights start on Saturday.
Strange enough we decided long ago to go to the Astroles game next weekend. Why!? well, my son is a huge Lynyrd Skynyrd fan and they are playing a free concert after the Pirate game on the 20th. Then yesturday my wonderful wife walks into the room with two tickets in her hands for this Saturdays game! She says, " I couldn’t go through the season without seeing my boys! Specially Albert!" Now that’s a wife! So we will be in section 112. Any VEB’er who might be there stop by and I will buy you a beer! Look for the number 37 and the name “BLESSING” on the jersey.
by nybirdfan on
Sep 11, 2008 9:28 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Agree 100%
I’d say that he is the one most worth it in terms of talent and the one most attractive in terms of price. He is developing very nicely at this point. Why not try and lock him up to a three-year deal this offseason?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on
Sep 11, 2008 9:53 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
If we bring Dave Duncan back
Lowe would be one of the top names I’d go after. That’s a match made in heaven if ever there was one. Even if Elder Dunc isn’t back, Lowe’s still pretty damn good.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on
Sep 11, 2008 1:01 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
i dont think i would complain about a 2/$12 mil
there is a good chance he will need to be DL’d each year for something but the production you will get while he is on the field will be worth that contract. for that small of value and few of years i would probably be ecstatic over it as opposed to resigning Lohse or Loop.
that said with they way our farm is comping along i wouldnt be too worried if Welle did walk after next year because we would have Garcia coming back and Mortensen and Todd all ready by 2010.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on
Sep 11, 2008 9:40 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Pujols for MVP
The sad thing is that Lopez’s errors, bad starts by pitchers, and late inning meltdowns by the ’pen may cost Pujols the MVP.
His numbers are absurd and him not being the runaway MVP is a farce of epic proportions.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on
Sep 11, 2008 9:55 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
He'll win it
Looking at the playoff teams, the only minor candidates are Delgado, Braun and Ramirez. Ramirez hasn’t been that good, Delgado is actually the 4th most valuable on his team based on win shares and I don’t think Braun gets the pub he will need to win it.
It’s down to Berkman and Pujols as long as both finish strong.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 10:17 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Manny Ramirez.....
“Ramirez hasn’t been that good”
Hardcore Legend
.396 AVG/ .488 OBP/ .776 SLG/ 1.264 OPS/ 14 HR/ 40 RBI
Ummmm that is pretty good.
by ICbirdfan on
Sep 11, 2008 11:24 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Aramis Ramirez.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 11:27 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Oh, I see..... I thought Hardcore was talking about Manny...
My bad, I was like surely he knew Manny has been on fire
by ICbirdfan on
Sep 11, 2008 11:30 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Manny's only problem with the MVP is
the NL that comes before it. People though are starting to talk about Aramis as if he has a shot at it, not likely.
by StLHugo on
Sep 11, 2008 11:46 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
though aramis might win the "most surprisingly slim" award
he really seems like this slimmed down this year.
…
OMG HE WUZ DOIN TEH ROIDS!!!
by mattybobo on
Sep 11, 2008 11:51 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
i bet it was a tapeworm that caused his sudden weight loss
yeah, that’s it. he had a tapeworm
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on
Sep 11, 2008 5:05 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I thought he was talking about Hanley
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 12:15 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I was talking about Aramis
I’m still not sure the Dodgers are going to make the playoffs.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 12:18 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
sigh
please be wrong! please??? as i signed in earlier, the “around sbn” headline read “delgado homers twice, again, in mets’ win.”
i just get this creepy feeling that he’s not gonna win it… blah. i would find that personally more disappointing by far than us missing the playoffs.
by mattybobo on
Sep 11, 2008 10:20 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
If Pujols doesn't win it
I will be complaining for months on end. I will even write angry letters if I have to.
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 12:16 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Lead story at sports illustrated online
is why Delgado should not win MVP and Pujols should.
by Youneverknow on
Sep 11, 2008 11:50 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
i cant find it
do you have a link?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on
Sep 11, 2008 3:19 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
i think you meant foxsports...
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/8549970/NL-MVP?-Delgado’s-not-even-most-valuable-Met
by launchshuttle on
Sep 11, 2008 3:34 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I saw it on SI.COM this morning... It was the cover story.
It had a picture of Delgado, but was giving all the stats and props to albert. It was right there, but I just went to the site and don’t see it now. It probably moved off to the side.
by ICbirdfan on
Sep 11, 2008 3:49 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
i saw it too
but i’m encouraged that there’s also a foxsports article saying the same thing!
by mattybobo on
Sep 11, 2008 4:03 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
clutch
Dayn Perry’s article had a nice stat comparison on ‘clutch’ performances. NO CONTEST!
by Recon on
Sep 11, 2008 4:19 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Phillies
I was worried about Utley if the Phils make the playoffs. Just like last year when Rollins was good down the stretch on a team that made the playoffs, compared to Pujols, who was excellent down the stretch (and for the year), on a club that missed the postseason. I very, very much hope that I’m wrong.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on
Sep 11, 2008 4:35 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Go Phillies?
Is that what we want? The Phillies to sweep and we rip off 4 straight here to tie the Brewers as they go into their crucial series vs the Cubs?
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 10:14 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Sounds right..
But the damn Astro’s are the team to worry about now I think…..those guys just do it every year!! AGH!!
by Timbo02 on
Sep 11, 2008 12:56 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Welley
I’d say wait until after the arbitration hearings. I would then make a multiple year deal based on that. If Welley gets 3.5 million, as you suggest, offer him 3.5 for 2009, 5 for 2010, and 6.5 for 2011. An increase of 1.5 million per season. See if that works. If he gets 3 million, offer 4.5 and 6 for the next two years. I’d say try to go as low as possible. The assumption being that if he “regresses back to the norm” you won’t get hit as hard. If he regresses, then he’s back to the “Brad Thompson role” of being a spot starter/long reliever.
by stlfan on
Sep 11, 2008 10:14 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Minor quibble
Wainwright’s $15 m base wasn’t just on his 1 good year in the majors. He was a quality starter in the minors and a reliable reliever in his first season.
Wellemeyer has had a body of work behind him that hasn’t been very good at all. He’s been fantastic this year and I love the guys attitude, but something else to consider is how much of his success is based on Dave Duncan and how much will he suffer once Duncan is gone next season?
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 10:16 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
I think we need to think of Duncan.....
When assessing ALOT of our pitchers, and how we’ll do business going forward. I still think his loss will hurt us in ways we can’t imagain. Guys like Looper/Welly/etc, I think Duncan is owed alot of successes. When Duncan leaves, management is going to have to pay up for more polished FA acquisitions. Gonna be a big change.
by SoonerfanTU on
Sep 11, 2008 10:19 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world
especially with guys like Sheets and Burnett on the market this year.
Then again, a new approach may help guys like Perez who is already using terms like ‘pitch to contact’ when describing Dave Duncan’s effect on him.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 10:22 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Replacement for Dunc
I used to be a huge Matheny for Pitching Coach guy, and I still think he would be a good fit, but I am almost wondering if Marty Mason might make a good choice and use Matheny as the Bullpen/Catching coach. Either that or I would think Dyar Miller would get the job, any other candidates that you see as possibles?
by StLHugo on
Sep 11, 2008 10:30 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Not sure.....
I really have a hard time believing Duncan will leave if Tony stays. If he did though, I have no idea where Tony would look. On the flip side, if Tony left, who knows how that would play out either. Is Oquendo going to be the choice? If so, who would he want as his pitching coach? I’d think a young manager would want an experienced pitching coach. IMO, the worse thing we could do, and I’m pretty sure it won’t happen, would be to bring on a new staff of guys that have very little experience at the position we’d be putting them at.
by SoonerfanTU on
Sep 11, 2008 10:33 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
You mean IF Duncan is gone next season?
I know Welly gives Duncan a lot of credit. Wasn’t Wellemeyer a pretty good starter in the minor leagues? I know he came up as a Starter but once he got called to the majors in Chicago they put him in the pen. Were he sucked it up and then continued to suck it up in KC.
by Evilfrog on
Sep 11, 2008 11:10 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Todd Wellemeyer in the minors
His minor league stats are here
He was not a stud starter, by any means, but over 500 IP, over 500 K, 225 walks, under 500 hits against.
WHIP was 1.4, ERA over 4.
by stlfan on
Sep 11, 2008 11:22 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
his biggest improvement
seems to be his walk rate is down.(looking at AAA stats) Keeping his whip down. So that might be something that stays with if Duncan leaves
by Evilfrog on
Sep 11, 2008 11:49 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Wainwright's extension
was also a big bit of PR. He, Yadi, and Albert are the face of the franchise going forward and (IMO) ownership wanted to make that clear last offseason.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on
Sep 11, 2008 1:18 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I still think a bit of an offensive overhaul is needed.....
For next year. And not just sticking Rasmus in the OF, signing Lopez to play 2B, and finding a SS. I can’t say I know exactly what to suggest, but games last night have become way to common. I’ve never seen a team that can coast through 7-8 innings, and then decide to take good AB’s in the 9th inning. Seems like this team does one of three things offensively. The either explode for a ton of runs, score a few early and do nothing the rest of the game, or do nothing all game and get a couple late. Something isn’t right, the balance, the makeup, something. Too many streaky hitters. I dunno.
by SoonerfanTU on
Sep 11, 2008 10:18 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
But really, though, what overhaul can they have?
Hitting soft tossing lefties has been a problem since 2006.
2006
1B – Pujols
2B – Miles/Belliard
SS – Eckstein
3B – Rolen/Speizio
OF – Edmonds, Duncan, Wilson, Encarnacion, Taguchi
C – Molina/Bennett
2008
1B – Pujols
2B – Miles/Kennedy/Lopez
SS – Izturis/Ryan
3B – Glaus
OF – Ankiel, Ludwick, Skippy, Barton, Duncan, Mather
C – Molina/Larue
That’s a pretty massive overhaul in a two year span and we still suck!
I’m with you though, this has to be figured out.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 10:25 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
is it a sign of the apocalypse...
when you guys agree?
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on
Sep 11, 2008 10:51 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
heh
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 12:30 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Still suck?
We’re 4th out of 16 in runs scored in a pitchers park. We’re tied with the Cubs for the highest team OPS+ in the NL. Still suck??
Kosuke Fukudome: $55 million.262 .362 .382
Skip Schumaker: $Free .305 .365 .416
Skippy needs a new publicist
by joker24 on
Sep 11, 2008 12:22 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
that's what I'm saying
how does that suck? why won’t people admit that we have had a lot of injuries, our ace was out for a long time, and our bullpen imploded a few times. sure our offense could be a tad better, but it would seem like trying to compensate for other mistakes rather than fixing the root of the problem.
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 12:32 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
think our frustrating situation this year has somewhat magnified the team's flaws in a lot of people's eyes
although maybe hardcore was just referring to “sucking” in certain situations… ie against lefties, offense going to sleep after posting 3 early runs, etc.
by mattybobo on
Sep 11, 2008 12:33 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
We are 7th in the league vs LHP in runs scored
and 10th in OPS.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 12:40 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
how do we address that problem?
go right after someone who mashes lefties? is there such a person available?
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 12:45 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Barton
But no serouisly. Had BB been healthy and adviable to platoon with skippy against LHP we would have been in much better shape this year IMHO.
by Evilfrog on
Sep 11, 2008 12:47 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
or mather...
Historically, Glaus, though he had an off-year vs LHP.
Renteria is also good vs LHP, though he may be in decline.
"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar
by SleepyCA on
Sep 11, 2008 12:53 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
yep
more injuries, and not playing those guys more I suppose. and of course Glaus had to have an off year vs. lefties.
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 1:00 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Glaus was supposed to mash lefties
.956 OPS for his career vs LHP, 1.235 OPS in 2007, .735 OPS this year.
St. Louis is just a black hole of suck vs LHP. Pujols is just about the only guy who can survive it.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 12:53 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Pujols sucks all the talent around him so he can put up .362 .467 .655?
It’s really the only explanation and he figures no one will notice if he only steals their LHP skills. Maybe he shouldn’t be the MVP after all.
(I’m afraid the BWAA just got a new agrument)
Kosuke Fukudome: $55 million.262 .362 .382
Skip Schumaker: $Free .305 .365 .416
Skippy needs a new publicist
by joker24 on
Sep 11, 2008 12:58 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
maybe he's in fact using some form of dark sorcery to sap their baseball life-force.
i don’t think the bbwaa would hold that against him. jimmy rollins essentially won the mvp because he made a bet (i’ll bet you we win the division and not the mets!) this is almost a form of gambling. and barry bonds just ate lots and lots of wheaties.
by mattybobo on
Sep 11, 2008 1:03 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
No no no no no, I've got it
Albert Pujols IS the Large Hadron Collider. He is forming tiny black holes that first just steal LHP hitting ability, pretty soon we’re all going to be slowly sucked into France/Switzerland——the world is ending!
On that note, from what I gather it’d take 4 years for the earth to suck into the impossible-to-form black hole created by the LHC. How unbelievably awesome would those 4 years be and would that not be the most spectacular way to die?
Kosuke Fukudome: $55 million.262 .362 .382
Skip Schumaker: $Free .305 .365 .416
Skippy needs a new publicist
by joker24 on
Sep 11, 2008 1:34 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
nice post
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 1:40 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Hah. Be rendered atom from atom? ouch!
but I love the Schumaker tidbit in your sig.
by sdrone on
Sep 11, 2008 1:58 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Well that wouldn't be so bad
Being stuck on an inescapable path to France would hurt the most but whatever. It would be fitting that the end of the world is that France sucks so much.
Kosuke Fukudome: $55 million.262 .362 .381
Skip Schumaker: $Free .306 .364 .417
Skippy needs a new publicist
by joker24 on
Sep 11, 2008 2:22 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
France is one of my favorite places I've ever been
It does not suck
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on
Sep 11, 2008 3:07 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
yeah
what’s so bad about it? it seems like a stereotype to diss the french
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 3:18 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
i agree it's cliche.
i like france too, but i have no problem with poking fun at it. i think british comedian eddie izzard says it best: “I’m very positive on the French. I – my family way back was French, so I’m – just – yeah, I go with it, but they are kind of, well, f***ing French…”
by mattybobo on
Sep 11, 2008 3:24 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Bingo
The cities and countryside are cool, the people are anti-Pujols. The people are unfortunately are part of what I would call “France”, hence France sucks.
Kosuke Fukudome: $55 million.262 .362 .381
Skip Schumaker: $Free .306 .364 .417
Skippy needs a new publicist
by joker24 on
Sep 11, 2008 5:48 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
nah
there are cool and lame people all over the world
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 7:05 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Yes
But then there are the French…..
by Woodwork on
Sep 11, 2008 7:06 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
and i think if you checked
most of those lame people immigrated from France…..
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 7:13 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Because they didn't like the French!
It all makes sense now
by Woodwork on
Sep 11, 2008 7:23 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
There was a study not too long ago about tourists
They polled countries on who were the best and worst tourists and what places were best to go as a tourist.
Not only did France come in last as far as where to visit and who is the worst tourist……get this……..French tourists came in last in their own country as being the worst tourists. So, you might be on to something. I’ll see if I can come up with the article.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 7:30 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
4 years? yeah right.
clearly you’ve never seen the sci-fi channel original film documentary “”http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0433883/" target="new">the black hole" which, coincidentally, took place right here in st. louis, MO. a secret scientific research facility located underneath the st. louis science center accidentally created an artificial black hole which threatened to destroy the st. louis area within hours. no only that, but a black hole monster was released to make mayhem upon the populace. i’m sure the re-enactments embellished a little, but it was pretty top notch stuff.
by mattybobo on
Sep 11, 2008 2:18 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
As scientifically sound as that Sci Fi Channel "docudrama" was...
Noted “hard” sci-fi author and mathematical big brain Larry Niven postulates that a microscopic or quantum black hole would take somewhere between “years and centuries” to consume a planet roughly Earth-sized. He apparently did those calculations a little over 30 years ago when he wrote “The Hole Man.”
So I figure we’ve got a lot more than just 4 years. Probably closer to 50-100 at a minimum.
Terrific short story, btw. I highly recommend it.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on
Sep 11, 2008 3:44 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Larry Niven, father of the flash mob
If he turns out to be a Cubs fan, I’d be so disappointed.
by random on
Sep 11, 2008 4:32 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
in all seriousness, could there be something about the stadium that contributes to this?
i know correlation is not causation, but it’s really weird to me that they can’t hit lefties from 2006 to today. i don’t know much about park factors, but i do know they’re probably more complicated than they seem to the uninitiated (like me). anybody got an idea?
by mattybobo on
Sep 11, 2008 1:05 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I wonder if it has something to do with approach?
Perhaps McRae is teaching them to be patient at the plate, ignoring pitches on the outter half and blasting pitches on the inside.
Vs a LHP, the pitcher can live on the outside corner, the Cardinals power is zapped because they won’t take it the other way with force and Tony insists on starting very RH’ded lineups usually vs LHP, thus giving us a whole team of slap hitting players vs LHP?
I really have no idea.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 1:09 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
could it possibly be as simple as a left-handed batting practice pitcher?
would that hurt anything?
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 1:23 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
But then Randy Flores wouldn't be availible
for the game later that night.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 1:25 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I kinda put that one on a tee for ya.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 1:26 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Get up baby! Get up!
And its a Goner!
by StLHugo on
Sep 11, 2008 1:27 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
In fairness to Randy
you can’t put him in that situation. Forcing him to throw a strike would be like forcing me to fly by flapping my arms.
Ain’t going to happen.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 1:29 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
put it on a tee?
why not just set up a tee instead of force randy to pitch against lefties? at least there’d be fewer walks that way. villone, i’m looking at you too.
by mattybobo on
Sep 11, 2008 1:30 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Doubt it
this was an issue in Busch II as well and on the road.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 1:22 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
2005 was pretty even
that was the last time we had success against LHP. Where is Abraham Nunez when you need him?
by ubeddie on
Sep 11, 2008 12:47 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
For all the venom thrown at Miles....
he is the antithesis of a streaky hitter. He has really been good for this team. Do I think he can play this well next year? I don’t really know.
This is the offense you get when you add power and plate discipline to a lineup. A very dangerous lineup that is incapable of manufacturing runs. With this lineup, we will continue to score runs in bunches.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
Sep 11, 2008 1:05 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Yes, definitely sign him
Whatever it takes. Let’s get some stability in this starting rotation, insead of “musical chairs” every year. Carpenter, Wainwright, Wellemeyer, possibly Lohse and a good FA sounds pretty good, especially since 2009 is supposed to be “our year,” according to many people here. It won’t be if you keep changing most of your staff every season.
by ccthemovieman on
Sep 11, 2008 10:23 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Give me this....
Carp
Wainwright
Wellemeyer
Lohse
Looper
For a full year. Who are we gonna get that is better than those 5 ?
Address the bullpen and the middle infield with some $$$.
I’d even give 2B to Lopez just keep him there and not in the OF or 3B. Pony up for a SS(Renteria) and a closer ( Fuentes).
Let the prospects develop and your done.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on
Sep 11, 2008 11:18 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
But...
If they “give you” that…you’re not gonna be given that “for a full year.” It won’t happen. Looper and Welley will probably get sore arms and go on the 15 day DL once, missing 3 starts. Carpenter may not even be able to start the year…who knows. Waino got hurt this year, so I dunno about him. Lohse has had a pretty clean bill of health throughout his career.
by stlfan on
Sep 11, 2008 11:25 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
"Who are we gonna get that is better than those 5 ?"
AJ Burnett is far and away better than anyone other than Carp or Wainwright. That said a lot depends on his contract desires. The Cardinals almost certainly won’t go over 3 years and Strauss was skeptical we’d see a contract over $10M this offseason. If there’s a pitcher to be had this offseason, he’s the one I want.
by azruavatar on
Sep 11, 2008 11:29 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
i like him too, but he's gonna cost too much
he’s walking away from 3 yrs / $36m, which means his asking price begins somewhere higher than that. his basic stats are starting to come into line with his strong peripherals - he’s currently 17-10 with a 4.31 era. too bad they didn’t lock him up in 2005-06 when they could have had him for $10m a year.
if there’s one case in which i agree with the “owners are cheap” argument, it’s that contract. burnett wanted to play for st louis, and the cardinals’ baseball people wanted him . . . . but the owners didn’t make it happen.
by lboros on
Sep 11, 2008 11:47 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Actually
If Burnett opts out he’s walking away from 2 yrs / $24 M, as per Cot’s.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on
Sep 11, 2008 1:05 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
All this clamoring for an impact player . . .
if the owners are serious about making an upgrade to the team, that’s the easiest place to add about 2-3 wins to the club and maybe more than that. I, too, am skeptical that he’d take a 3 year deal but but I’d hope the Cardinals would at least look at something like a 3/45 deal similar to the Jason Schmidt deal the Dodgers made. It’s impossible to know how those negotiations would play out but I’d be far more keen to dump money on Burnett than sign Wellemeyer to a Pineiro contract.
by azruavatar on
Sep 11, 2008 1:57 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I'm not sure...
but that may be the first ever reference to the “Jason Schmidt deal” that uses it as a positive example.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on
Sep 11, 2008 3:51 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
his shoulder absolutely fell apart
there are parallels to be drawn medically (not that I agree with them — I think Burnett’s a good investment) but that’s got to fall, at least in part, on the evaluating physician’s shoulders. monetarily, more money for less years makes a lot of sense, imo.
by azruavatar on
Sep 11, 2008 4:24 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Understand completely
And I happen to agree wrt Burnett, btw. After all, aren’t possible big signings like him one of the main benefits of saving all that money with numerous other inexpensive players coming via the farm system?
I just found the reference rather…intriguing.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on
Sep 11, 2008 4:38 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
the other one's that came to mind were
Andruw Jones and Rafeal Furcal. . . neither of those were particularly inspiring either.
by azruavatar on
Sep 11, 2008 5:07 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
not too mention
Burnett is another injury concern. and is he really that much better than Wellemeyer?
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 12:40 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Burnett is probably 2 wins better than Wellemeyer (at least) over 200 IP.
Remember that his peripherals are far better than Wellemeyer’s and that he’s posting those numbers in the AL East. It’s a significant difference
by azruavatar on
Sep 11, 2008 1:52 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
eh...
you had to mention 200 ip.
That’s the issue with Burnett though, he’s only gone over 200 ip 3 times in his career and this is one of those years. Plus, the first time he did it (204 in 2002), the next year he sported 23 innings. Then the second time he did it (209 in 2005), the next year he went 135 innings.
He’s already at 200 wins right now. The biggest problem I have with him is his unreliable durability especially coming off a season that looks like he’ll top his career high in innings by a fairly comfortable margin.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 1:59 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
And that's not the issue with Wellemeyer
He asked if Burnett was better than Wellemeyer; I simply used that as the baseline. I’m not claiming he’s going to pitch 200IP.
by azruavatar on
Sep 11, 2008 2:00 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I'm just pointing it out
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 2:04 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
ok
and I’m just pointing out that it had no relevance to what I said
by azruavatar on
Sep 11, 2008 2:08 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Sure it does
If not, you’d figure out how many wins better than Wellemeyer he is over 300 ip. You used 200 ip, yet he almost never throws 200 ip and when he does, he has a history of being hurt the next year.
So, I think it’s very relevant. Since he became a full-time starting pitcher 8 years ago, he’s averaged 147 innings per year (not including this year, if you do it jumps up to 154 innings). I find that relevant.
I’m not saying you are predicting 200 ip out of him next year or whatever. All I’m doing is putting real life information up against your numbers. Don’t take it the wrong way.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 2:20 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
were you sugar coating the facts, azru?
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 3:01 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Exactly. YOu have to figure out how many wins he gives you
over say 150 innings or something like that. So, who knows, 1.5 wins maybe.
by sdrone on
Sep 11, 2008 2:00 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
who knows
Welley might improve by that much next year. I’m sure he has a better fastball, etc.
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 3:02 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I'll take Derek Lowe
Less expensive, more durable
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on
Sep 11, 2008 1:07 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
and he will be 36 next year
while i do like Lowe better than Burnett i wouldn’t go more than 2 years with him. Burnett i wouldn’t touch based on his price tag and injury concern. there is no way to get him for 3 years and that is the most i would give any pitcher on the wrong side of 30.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on
Sep 11, 2008 1:40 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
+1
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 1:42 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
he's a type a and wants to play on the east coast
big turnoff(the type a part, i could care less that he is an east coaster)
by VolsnCards5 on
Sep 11, 2008 3:29 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
i could care less
but not much less
by VolsnCards5 on
Sep 11, 2008 3:29 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
why skeptical that we'd see a contract over 10M
if that is how the FO actually looks at things I am highly disappointed in them. You can’t count yourself out before it even starts.
Another year of retreads?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Sep 11, 2008 6:01 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
You can't go out and sign a pitcher for more than you pay Carp....
Any ace that comes in should not be paid more than Carp…
So if you can sign Burnett for Carp money then I’ll take him. Also as nice as it would be to have Burnett I don’t think it is realistic that they will sign him with Carp and Waino filling in the top two spots.
Hope I’m wrong. But the best bang for the buck in my opinion is that starting 5. Known quantities that are durable. Loop and Welly should hold up better next year. And show me a top notch pitcher that throws 200 innnings a year and then show me how we trade or pay for that guy.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on
Sep 11, 2008 7:18 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
OT: Cubs/Astros
There’s talk of moving the Cubs/Astros series to a neutral site due to the Hurricane that’s supposed to go through Houston on Saturday. One of the sites being mentioned is Busch Stadium.
While I know we should be rooting for the cubs to beat the Astros, how is everyone going to feel when 20,000 cub fans drive down from Chicago, take over Busch and the endless supply of tickets? I know how I’m supposed to feel when these two teams meet with the Cardinals battling the Astros for a wildcard spot, but still………
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 11:26 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Neutral site?
I wouldn’t be happy about that if I were the Astros. The Rangers play in Oakland this weekend, so you’d figure the Astros would be looking into playing in Arlington.
by random on
Sep 11, 2008 11:46 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
It'll probably be raining there too
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 12:11 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
St. Louis
While there won’t be a hurricane in Missouri this weekend, it’s still supposed to rain pretty much non-stop between now and Monday or Tuesday.
by Robb on
Sep 11, 2008 12:22 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
wow you're right. where isn't it going to be raining this weekend?
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 12:31 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Can we just send Ted Lilly to Houston to keep Brandon Backe company?
Get everyone else out.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 12:44 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Let those two stand by to make sure
the stadium doesn’t get flooded.
Seems like the humanitarian thing to do.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 12:54 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
yeah, it's supposed to be pretty nasty
here in dallas most of the weekend. boooooooo.
by launchshuttle on
Sep 11, 2008 3:27 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Right now they're saying
Play it in Houston with a double header on Sunday and a game on Monday (which is an off day for both teams).
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 3:33 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
they're still saying
Two games postponed on ESPN. That bastion of journalism. cough
- Y.2.2
by Yadi2Second on
Sep 11, 2008 7:23 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
that would make sense
Friday and Saturday postponed. Play a double header on Sunday and then one game on Monday. But this might cause all kinds of problems if there is still an evacuation in effect on Sunday or there is damage or power outages in the city.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 7:32 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Off topic
does anyone know where I can find historical xFIP data by team?
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on
Sep 11, 2008 11:44 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
at the xFIP history site?
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 12:42 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
is that cleverness
or i am just clueless?
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on
Sep 11, 2008 2:08 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
yeah
I was being retarded
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 2:58 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Wellemeyer
I haven’t seen him pitch much this year so I have a question for you guys.
What has he been doing different since putting on a Cardinals uniform? Having watched him pitch in a Cubs uniform (granted it was a few years ago) I never saw anything in the guy that led me to believe he could be a competent major league starter. What has Dave Duncan done with him?
---AC 00 00 00 - Believe
by mjk83 on
Sep 11, 2008 11:48 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Walks
Since he became a starter last year his BB rate has started to decline, that to me is the biggest thing he has done. And I think he did it by lowering his velocity, he seemed to be overthrowing everything and lost some control, now he is focusing on 94ish fastballs with control vs 96 with none.
by StLHugo on
Sep 11, 2008 11:49 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Control is better
Walks less people. He was walking .73 Batters every inning in chicago. Now he is walking .303 batters every inning in St. Louis
by Evilfrog on
Sep 11, 2008 11:53 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Throwing strikes
He’s throwing 64% strikes instead of 61% for his career (which is a bigger difference than it sounds), first pitch strike 58% instead of 55%.
Kosuke Fukudome: $55 million.262 .362 .382
Skip Schumaker: $Free .305 .365 .416
Skippy needs a new publicist
by joker24 on
Sep 11, 2008 12:25 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
that's it right there
throwing strikes. His BB rate is lower, to be sure, but it comes back to the strike % which, as joker says is up around Wainwright’s.
by chuckb on
Sep 11, 2008 12:30 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Throwing strikes
Announcers, coaches, and players love to talk about “getting strike one” as if it’s some kind of choice the pitcher makes.
Ever notice that?
Nobody ever goes into the analysis of “how” you throw strikes. How does Wellemeyer throw stirkes? And why is he better at it now than before?
Some love for the organization here – obviously, last year Wellemeyer was released by KC for poor peformance. Someone, or ones, in the Cardinal organization made this deduction:
1. Welley has not had success because he can’t throw strikes
2. I believe he can throw strikes, if only he’d do “X”
3. We have the ability to teach him how to do “X”
4. He has the ability to learn fro us how to do “X” and in turn do “X”, which leads to throwing stirkes, which leads to success.
Aside from the “velocity” comment by Hugo, which is prescient, nobody has taken a shot at explaining what Wellemeyer’s “X” is. Can anyone do so? (And frankly, this could apply to any pticher, couldn’t it?)
Thanks.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on
Sep 11, 2008 1:13 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
The X has seemed to be
reduced velocity to increase command/movement. Wellemeyer used to come in blowing smoke at 96 mph. Now, he pitches around 93 mph in an attempt to get better control on it.
It also appears that he starts alot of his pitches now in the middle of the plate and allows his natural movement to take it out of the hitter’s zone.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 1:16 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
At least he has a predictable natural movement
I think that was the main issue with Kip Wells. He had great movement, it just wasn’t consistent enough to be able to work with successfully.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 1:27 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I just ran some numbers..
this is interesting to me. (Note that I’m not arguing with anyone, it’s just interesting.) When a pitcher throws 95+ (in general) everyone talks about him “blowing smoke” whereas 92-93 is a more “average” FB (a bit towards the high end of average, no doubt, but still not "smoke"). The difference in the time it takes a 93 mph fastball to get to the plate vs. a 96? Not much, 0.01386 s. Just 14 milliseconds reducing the batter’s response time by around 3%. I’d dare say that’s almost insignificant.
Now, the fact that a pitcher gets better command/movement on the (slightly) slower pitch is definitely NOT insignificant.
by ArkansasTravs on
Sep 11, 2008 3:59 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
3% is very significant
a 3% reduction in an already near blink of the eye response time is very significant, with that fast of a fastball you almost have to start your swing before the ball leaves the pitchers hand, which is why deceptive deliveries work so well.
by StLHugo on
Sep 11, 2008 4:30 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I say we make the leap
and sign Welley. he is doing better here than anywhere else, and even if Duncan leaves, it’s not like he is going to instantly forget how to pitch strikes, which is why he is so much better now. The guy seems to be a positive clubhouse persona too. He is one of the key reasons we are still in it, as miniscule a chance that is. would like to see him next year and the future, he will probably be more adjusted to starting as well.
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 12:47 PM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
The game finds you, doesn't it?
Say your an organization and you decide not to call up your three best positional prospects from AAA (a catcher, a third basemen and an OF’er). Then , let’s say that organization, in the span of 24 hours, loses a key player at all 3 of those positions for a week during the most crucial part of a pennant chase.
It’s almost like when you put players out of position and then the ball finds them.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 1:24 PM EDT
reply
actions
1 recs
hahaha
Man that is great, but seriously, Yadi is out for a week? I hadn’t heard that yet.
by StLHugo on
Sep 11, 2008 1:26 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I don't think it's official
but he reportedly has a deep bruise in his quadriceps. He’ll be out at the better part of the weekend I suppose, but he’s like Pujols and has a tendency to try to come back as soon as possible.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 1:30 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Yeah, rotobar says he will miss
3-4 games. We don’t play Monday, so he won’t play until Tuesday at the earliest.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 1:31 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Worst Injury I ever had was a deep bruise to the Quad
I went sledding in college and my leg hit a rock going down a hill. I tried to tough it out and played Snow Football. I couldn’t even walk for a week and couldn’t run for a month. I got physically sick from the amount of pain I was in. Driving a clutch about killed me.
by FlimtotheFlam on
Sep 11, 2008 4:33 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
haha
my question is…do you think freese and rasmus arent up due to preference for vets or is it not wanting to start the clock on their MLB time? clearly i dont think anyone can really argue that they wouldnt be of value to the team currently
by FunkeeC on
Sep 11, 2008 1:27 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
With Rasmus it makes some sense to keep him down
to keep his clock from starting.
But with Freese, it really makes no sense. He’s got pressure from behind in Wallace and Craig and he is already 26 years old.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 1:30 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I'm in agreement.
At the beginning of the month, I was totally against bringing up these guys, but at this point it’s almost a no-brainer. What was once a drive to make the playoffs has now become a bit of a desperate situation. They’re actually running out of players. Starting the clock on Rasmus and Freese really hurts nothing and gets them some pretty good experience. Plus, if the team happens to overcome this deficit by some stroke of luck, they’ll make the playoffs.
I really don’t see an issue. The only one I would have a problem with is Anderson since I really think he’ll be spending a majority of his time at Memphis (or Alberquerque or Las Vegas or Omaha where ever they play AAA ball next year).
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 1:37 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Freese
Isn’t on the 40 man. So someone would have to be removed from the 40 man. It would also cost $60,000 or so in salary. Which would be a bit much for just a few innnings. Though if Glaus is going to miss time than money shouldn’t be an issue.
by Evilfrog on
Sep 11, 2008 2:30 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
any of duncan, mather and mulder
could be moved to the 60-day dl. That’s not an issue.
"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar
by SleepyCA on
Sep 11, 2008 2:58 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
err garcia, not mulder,
mulder is already 60-day.
Isringhausen, also.
"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar
by SleepyCA on
Sep 11, 2008 3:17 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Problem here is by the time Tony learns Lopez sucks at 3b and decides to bring up Freese
the season will be over…
Freese should be up now.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on
Sep 11, 2008 7:21 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
We won't trade 'em, we won't play 'em
Why do we even have a farm system?
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on
Sep 11, 2008 1:29 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Jill?
oh. sorry…..
Just kidding, Jill.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 1:31 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Leave me alone. I've been busy at work.
I almost never agree with Mr. Alxfritz about anything. But this time I do.
So, I’m an ingrate. I don’t care.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on
Sep 11, 2008 5:52 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
It was a joke.
If I knew you were this thin-skinned, I wouldn’t have typed it.
I apologize.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 5:56 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Well, gee. I'm not exactly thin-skinned.
It was supposed to be sarcastic. Please don’t apologize-I knew you were kidding. I haven’t been around much to defend myself or offend anyone…..I guess I’m out of practice.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on
Sep 11, 2008 6:02 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
wow
had me going.
just for that, I take back my apology!

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 6:10 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Because, as Tony clearly pointed out
It’s nice to have these prospects, to say you have them and to talk about them to other organizations.
Or something like that.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 1:33 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
that right there is one of my biggest problems with Tony
and i talked about it early this morning in last nights game thread, so i’ll keep it short here.
i think MO needs to take a stand with this team & become the clear leader of the organization. Tony is never going to change, he is who he is. he can’t help himself. if you give him washed up vets, he’s going to us them 100% of the time over younger, better players no matter what. if MO would simply cut the washed up vets from the team, call up the younger & better players to replace them, Tony would have no choice but to use them. MO can take charge & take the power out of Tonys hands that is clearly costing the team much needed victories.
for a variety of reasons MO won’t do this. but not a single one of them are the right reasons. if Tony can’t see that playing the younger & better players over the washed up vets is in the Cardinals best interests, then he isn’t the right man for the job. it’s that simple.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on
Sep 11, 2008 5:24 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Ah.....
If you are insinuating that Lopez shouldn’t play 3rd, neither of his errors had anything to do with position. Not sure what he did on the bunt play, lack of concentration maybe, and the other play he just made a bad throw. Could have done that from SS or 2B too. He’s also made some pretty solid plays at 3B since joining the Redbirds. If you want to complain about him playing the OF, I won’t argue with you much. But he’s fine at 3B.
by SoonerfanTU on
Sep 11, 2008 1:33 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
He shouldn't be playing 3B
if he plays 3B, that means Adam Kennedy’s playing time increases, which negatively impacts the team’s chances to win.
That’s just one reason he shouldn’t be playing 3B.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 1:36 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Tonight I'd like to see
Barden at 3rd and Barton in left. Miles at 2nd. And I guess Iz2 at ss.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 1:40 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Harden is such a mystery
He’s a guy that can get himself out of a game in the 5th inning with pitch count, but he is also a guy that if you don’t hit the first strike you see, you have no chance down 2 strikes to him.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 1:43 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
that's why I'd go with defense
and try to get him out of the game after 5 or 6 innings. The cubs bullpen in vulnerable. Basically try to tread water with Harden and keep it close. Who knows? With Wellemeyer pitching, you might find yourself with Welley still in the game, you’re facing the cub bullpen and it’s 1-1 in the 7th inning.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 1:47 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
You won't really need to try to get him out after 6
Lou is very careful with him, and probably moreso tonight since he’s missed a turn or 2 in the rotation.
by sdrone on
Sep 11, 2008 2:15 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Hardcore, the mystery is his STUFF. It's really good, you know.....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on
Sep 11, 2008 5:54 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Then why didn't he last night?
Because Adam Kennedy got some hits off of Ted Lilly 5 years ago?
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 5:05 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Obviously Tony thought Kennedy had a better chance.
Who am I to argue with him?
by SoonerfanTU on
Sep 11, 2008 5:27 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I just don't understand it
vs LHP
Adam Kennedy: 268/.288/.296/.583
Aaron Miles: .306/.370/.361/.731
I mean, it’s not even close.
As I said, Adam Kennedy got some hits off of Ted Lilly 5 years ago when Adam Kennedy was actually a good player so he got the start.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 5:33 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Lilly
vs. LHB .314, .392, .558, .950
vs. RHB .229, .287, .421, .708
It goes both ways…
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 5:38 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Isn't Miles
a switch hitter?
Anyway, I would have wanted Kennedy in over Miles with Looper on the mound anyway. Miles has been shaky defensively at 2nd compared to Kennedy this year. Plus we are already down a near gold glove at 3rd with Lopez in over Glaus. Throw in a ground ball hitter like Looper and well, I’d go with the more taleneted defensive two bagger. It’s not like either of them tear the cover off of the ball anyway. Of course, Tony could have just as easily put in Kennedy over Miles because one sep. 10th 5 years ago Miles struck out 3 times and kennedy hit 3 doubles…
by Evilfrog on
Sep 11, 2008 5:42 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
yeah, Miles is a switch hitter
who hits right handed against Left handed pitching. I wouldn’t want him to turn around either since he hasn’t done it in a very long time.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 5:45 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
The problem is that Tony believes Adam Kennedy can not be Adam Kennedy
just because Ted Lilly is pitching.
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 6:06 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
no, he isn't "fine at 3B"
The last time he played more than one game in a season at 3B in MLB was 2004. He made 24 successful plays and 5 errors in 24 games.
A guy who makes an error one out of every 6 times a ball is hit to him is not “fine”.
"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar
by SleepyCA on
Sep 11, 2008 1:45 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
he just needs practice.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 1:47 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
or he just isnt very good defensively
and since he really isnt very good at ss or 2b, id go with that
by FunkeeC on
Sep 11, 2008 1:56 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Small sample size.
Isn’t that the argument most folks use around here?
by SoonerfanTU on
Sep 11, 2008 2:55 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
yes it is a small sample size
but all of the data we have, every bit of it, says he is a terrible third baseman. Nothing indicates that “he’ll be fine” except as an emergency backup 3B.
Whereas we have a genuinely good defensive 3B – a 26yo with 3 options remaining – who just finished putting up a .900+ OPS in his first shot at AAA, and he is sitting at home watching Lopez piss games away on TV. This is at least two games now that Lopez’ defense has cost us.
"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar
by SleepyCA on
Sep 11, 2008 3:05 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I really glad to see
that I’m not the only one appalled at Lopez’s sloppy play. That frickin’ guy has cost us several games with his awful defense. I, for one, am not a fan of Lopez.
And for the umteenth time…the fact that LaRussa puts someone in a particular position on the field is less likely to be related to that player’s ability to actually play the position and far more likely to be a result of “crazy Tony’s wild world of random pseudo-utility-man placement.” It’s like Dusty’s Dugout Dice, but Tony-style. He’s always done it, and will always continue to do it.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on
Sep 11, 2008 4:08 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
was the other game at SS?
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 4:25 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Well...
He was at 2B when he almost singlehandedly gave the game to the Braves a couple weeks ago, including the controversial inning-ending routine grounder to second that he decided NOT to throw to first in time for the out.
My friend and I calculated that his astoundingly bad defensive plays resulted in somewhere between 4 and 7 additional Braves runs that day.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on
Sep 11, 2008 4:42 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
that's the game I was thinking about
in looking it up, though, we were down 5-4 when he made the misplay, so he can’t really be blamed for the loss. Still, I’m annoyed by it.
"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar
by SleepyCA on
Sep 11, 2008 4:50 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Except that...
(and my friend and I were AT that game) there were at least 2 other plays that any decent defensive second baseman with range and a good glove would have made handily…whereas the ball rolled under Lopez’s outstretched glove and into the outfield twice, allowing 3 or so other runs to score. If a merely competent second baseman had made even 1 of those other plays, we wouldn’t have been trailing when he made the additional infuriating “I’m gonna wait 5 seconds before I throw this ball to 1st” play.
He also seems to have a awfully high K rate, with 18 Ks (to 8 walks) in 83 ABs with us. At that rate, if he got 600 ABs a year, he’d be looking at 130 Ks in a season…a feat he’s been flirting with since 2005. That seems awfully high for a guy with 1 HR per 47 ABs during the same span.
But I’m sure I’ll be told I can’t really complain about his offense too much seeing as how he’s hit very well since coming to STL…but it sure makes a case for “small sample size” when his offensive “prowess” has suddenly appeared after sucking badly for, oh…his entire 8 year career with the one exception of 2005 in which he had an .838 OPS.
His other 7 years (including 2008 with the Nationals)?
2001 .722
2002 .673
2003 .612
2004 .719
2006 .739
2007 .659
2008 .619
Color me unimpressed.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on
Sep 11, 2008 5:44 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
You and your friend don't calculate very well.
by SoonerfanTU on
Sep 11, 2008 5:28 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Hypocrite much?
Your words, below:
understand the damn metric, I just don’t put much stock in it when discussing how good or bad a defender is. I base my opinion on watching a player. You know, the way coaches have done for years and years?[/quote]My friend and I were at the game. And I base my opinion on both years of Felipe Lopez metrics AND our direct observations. You know, the way smart baseball people have been doing it for years and years? Yet you can dismiss that with a vapid sarcastic comment and nothing…I mean NOTHING…to back it up?
You have zero credibility, and you bring NOTHING to these discussions.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on
Sep 11, 2008 5:53 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
HUH?
Please explain my hypocrisy?
by SoonerfanTU on
Sep 11, 2008 5:55 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
And btw.....
Since I know you’ve totally missed the point…..I wasn’t arguing with you about Lopez’s defense, as in good or bad. I was laughing at the runs he cost the team that day, as per your calculations. Must have been a very liberal calculation, that’s all I was saying.
by SoonerfanTU on
Sep 11, 2008 5:56 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Because you just said
You know baseball by watching it.
They said they watched 4 to 7 runs score because of what they saw…because they, you know, “watch the game” and you blew them off. How do you know it didn’t cost 4 to 7 runs?
by Harknights on
Sep 11, 2008 6:00 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
expand that argument
it’s not just 3rd base. Lopez hasn’t shown himself to be an average fielder at any position over the last few years.
by azruavatar on
Sep 11, 2008 4:26 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Really?
Not average?
I’m not saying he is great, but he is more than passable. And I have a feeling he is probably working ALOT with Oquendo before games. I read somewhere that the team is interested in an extension, or signing him this offseason, but they want to see some signs that he will work on his defense.
I just don’t get how some of you rate defenders. And don’t throw any defensive metrics at me, b/c that doesn’t doesn’t mean squat to me. Yadi is regarded as a defensive guru, yet he’s made alot of mistakes behind the dish this year. Lopez boots a couple of balls, and all the sudden he sucks at defense.
He is probably right at average, or just a little below right now, but he has the physical tools to be at least an average defender. Everybody wants to forget the great plays he’s made in the field, despite playing 5 positions in his short time with a new team.
by SoonerfanTU on
Sep 11, 2008 5:32 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Barf
To the last sentence of your first full paragraph
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on
Sep 11, 2008 5:38 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Really?
You don’t like him as a potential starting 2B if his defense improves some? I’d almost guarantee he’ll match what our platoon of 2B have done this year offensively, and will probably top it. Plus, the kid still oozes with potential. He has some speed, is good on the bases, has the pop to hit 2nd in the lineup, or down around 7th. So long as we go get another SS, I’d be more than happy having him at 2B.
by SoonerfanTU on
Sep 11, 2008 5:43 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Potential starting 2B....maybe
But we all know if he’s back he won’t be tied down to 2B. The word extension scares me, maybe because it triggers something in my mind that thinks “multi-year.” I just don’t want him to be Pineiro v 2.0
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on
Sep 11, 2008 7:50 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
He would be the Joel Pineiro of the infield
I think there are some people who are in love with his offensive potential, but that is likely a mirage. I can’t name a single player who has been able to sustain a BABIP anywhere near Lopez current .453 as a Cardinal. Albert is currently enjoying his best year in several and is BABIPing .348. Lopez career high BABIP is .350 in a year where he put up a .727 OPS.
I can’t think of a way to say this without being rude, so I will apologize in advance, but if you have actually watched Felipe Lopez play in the field and you think he is defensively average you just really don’t know much about baseball. I’m sorry, but he is bad to the eye and to the computer. He has a nice arm, but shockingly poor range for a guy who runs well and a poor glove as well.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on
Sep 11, 2008 8:19 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Really.
and this is the problem that you have. You refuse to accept objective measures of a player’s defense or offense if it doesn’t jive with your opinion. It’s not that I forget the great plays but I’m not willing to disregard the terrible ones as either. Let’s stick with Lopez since Yadi was never a part of the discussion – his defense is a separate issue. And as you mentioned earlier, the errors he made last night didn’t have to do with the position, so who cares if he’s played 5 different spots. I could play 5 different spots; that doesn’t mean I’d be good at them.
“And don’t throw any defensive metrics at me, b/c that doesn’t doesn’t mean squat to me.”
How arrogant can you be to completely disregard something because you don’t understand it. Lopez has not been a good defender for several years. Frankly, you can’t even offer a definition of ‘average’ or ‘passable’ without some kind of a metric. UZR, SFR and PMR all rated him as below average in recent years.
Please continue to blather on about how other people’s opinion’s aren’t valid when your counterargument is nothing more than your opinion. At least I have some factual evidence to back mine up.
by azruavatar on
Sep 11, 2008 5:42 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Talk about arrogant.....
How arrogant can you be to completely disregard something because you don’t understand it.
You can cut that BS out right now. I understand the damn metric, I just don’t put much stock in it when discussing how good or bad a defender is. I base my opinion on watching a player. You know, the way coaches have done for years and years?
There isn’t a player in the majors that hasn’t booted an routine play this year. And all the sudden that means Lopez can’t play 3B? Please.
by SoonerfanTU on
Sep 11, 2008 5:46 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
So what you are saying is
I’ll never let the facts stand in the way of an opinion.
Nice.
You will only “see” what you want to “see”
by Harknights on
Sep 11, 2008 5:56 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Like I said.....
Any stat that has Ryan Howard as a better defensive 1B than D-Lee, well, I don’t even have to say it.
Not saying they are worthless, just not the end all, and not something I put alot of weight in.
by SoonerfanTU on
Sep 11, 2008 6:09 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Why?
D-Lee could be having a down year witht he glove…and Howard could be having a career year with the glove…at the very least you should ask why not just say it must be wrong.
by Harknights on
Sep 11, 2008 6:18 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
If you had both players on your team
who would you want in the game playing defense in the bottom of the 9th with a 1 run game in game 7 of the world series?
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 6:19 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
In a vacuum Lee
But that doesn’t mean he was better this year.
If Chipper Jones wins the Batting title this year it doesn’t mean he’s the best hitter playing the game now. It means he had the highest batting average.
It also doesn’t mean he would be my first choice to bat with 2 out in the ninth vs Lidge.
by Harknights on
Sep 11, 2008 6:25 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
But what you are saying is
it doesn’t matter what the metric says, you’d still go with Lee, right?
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 6:29 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Because the career metric
says otherwise…but I should be alerted the possibility that Lee has an unseen problem.
by Harknights on
Sep 11, 2008 6:32 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
wait a minute....
So, now Lee has an unseen problem and we are agreeing that Howard is having a career year with the glove while Lee is having a down year. So, much so that the metric says Howard is the better defender yet you still choose Lee.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 6:53 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
it says howard, delgado, lee and votto
are all about the same, and that pujols/berkman/tex are in a whole other league. It also says fielder, jacobs, etc are very bad, so everyone but lee is in the group I’d agree with.
Is it so hard to believe that Lee may have lost a step in his age 32 season? FWIW he’s made more errors this season than in any since 2002, so it very well might be true.
"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar
by SleepyCA on
Sep 11, 2008 9:18 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I'm not sure I understand your point
The question is, if Howard ranks better than Lee and we are all agreeing there might be something going on with Lee that has caused him to play worse this year and Howard is having a very good year (by his standards) with the glove……why would you still choose Lee over Howard?
It’s really not that difficult of a question, but all I’ve gotten are excuses about why Lee might be ranked below Howard. If you choose Lee, why would you choose him over someone who is having a better year statistically?
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Sep 11, 2008 9:52 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
yeah, i was really addressing Sooner's post above
you re-framed the argument and I missed that. Intuitively I go with Lee, but that might be the wrong choice.
Lee is a smarter player; during one of the games against the dodgers, the phillies lost because Howard threw to the wrong base. RZR doesn’t tell the whole story, since because Howard got one out he was credited with the play, but Pujols turns a double play on that play 9 times out of 10 and Howard didn’t. Would lee? Who knows. But he’d have tried I think.
Also, things like picking ability aren’t captured by RZR, so lee might be the better choice for that reason alone.
"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar
by SleepyCA on
Sep 12, 2008 1:30 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
So basically
It is your opinion vs. everyone else’s opinions (many of which are bolstered by independent metrics, which, oddly enough for you, were derived from people “watching” the players – the way coaches have done for years and years).
It boils down to this: your opinion is correct because it is founded on what you have seen. Everyone else’s opinions are wrong because they are in conflict with yours.
by Ray Lankford on
Sep 11, 2008 6:02 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
No I'm calling your crap out
It’s a load of crap that you come on here and tell people that ‘player A is good or bad because I watched him play some games’. How can anyone ever have a discussion with you when you won’t a) accept that anyone else’s opinion has validity if it doesn’t match yours or b) look at objective measures of a players ability.
Frankly, you’ve shown no knowledge of any advanced metric beyond it’s name as you say it’s worthless. This “watching the player” line is a bunch of crap too. You’re not the only one watching the bleeping games. Why is your visual (subjective) evaluation better than anyone else’s visual (subjective) evaluation. I never said that “all of the sudden Lopez can’t play 3B”. He hasn’t been able to play 3B for SEVERAL YEARS.
If you understand the metrics and disagree with them, try articulating why instead of saying they have no value. I’m not going to argue that any metric is perfect but three different techniques showed Lopez as a poor fielder. Swallow your pride and admit that maybe, just maybe, you could be wrong. Potential or not, raw ability or not, Lopez has not performed well defensively by a variety of evaluation techniques.
by azruavatar on
Sep 11, 2008 8:14 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
And all you need to know about ZR......
Is that the one I’m looking at, has Ryan Howard as the 4th best fielding 1B in the majors. Ahead of D-Lee.
It also has Yadi at about 5th or 6th at catcher.
by SoonerfanTU on
Sep 11, 2008 5:51 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
And though they don't qualify.....
Duncan in LF was ahead of guys like Byrnes and Pierre, and heck, even Ethier.
So yea, that’s a great measurement.
by SoonerfanTU on
Sep 11, 2008 5:53 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Pierre is not very good
I think it might be possible that Duncan would record more outs than Pierre with the same plays.
by Harknights on
Sep 11, 2008 6:08 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Yadi
probably is having his worst year defensively, but he is hitting so he will win the gold glove this year.
I mean when guys like Al and Dan are willing to say Yadi is struggling defensively this year then it must be true.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on
Sep 11, 2008 8:24 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
lot of that is the middle infield
yadi has 5 or 6 throwing errors on balls that should have been part of a caught stealing.
"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar
by SleepyCA on
Sep 11, 2008 9:20 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
if you think lopez has been passable
from watching him play, and are not willing to listen to defensive metrics, then I guess we’ll just have to disagree. I can’t stand the idea of a year of him at second base. I’d rather see eckstein at SS again than Lopez.
And most of those of us who are calling Lopez terrible at defense said the same thing about him when he was signed. I said the same thing in January when people were talking about acquiring him through trade. Last night was just “what happens” when you have a defensive liability like Lopez in the field.
"All I am saying is give Freese a chance!" -- nmstar
by SleepyCA on
Sep 11, 2008 5:47 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
none of his errors had anything to do with the position he was playing?
can you clarify what you mean?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Sep 11, 2008 6:06 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
nevermind
i typed too soon
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Sep 11, 2008 6:12 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Cards Sign a Bird
http://www.futureredbirds.net/2008/09/11/bird-is-the-wor/
Frontier League Pitcher of the Year
by StLHugo on
Sep 11, 2008 2:00 PM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
anybody else
get the sneaking suspicion that next year’s club will look a lot like this one. i think from the FO point of view Izturis’ value lies in his defense so he’ll be back. everyone is falling in love with lopez so he’ll probably be back. we know miles is coming back. honestly the only changes i see are a new starter and a LH reliever.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
by FutureMan on
Sep 11, 2008 2:33 PM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Honestly, I think we could easily contend if we can avoid a bunch of injuries
1b – Albert
2b – Lopez
ss – I want a new guy, hell even going young is better
3b – Glaus
OF: Ankiel, Lud, Rasmus, and throw in Mather/Skip/ etc.
If we had Carp, Wainwright, Welle, and a good new guy we’d be in pretty good shape.
by sdrone on
Sep 11, 2008 2:37 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
yeah
it doesn’t really look that bad if we can avoid injuries. it’s way too early to say what next year will be like though. I’m with you on the throw a young guy into the fire at SS idea, especially if we re-sign Iztoo. if we don’t, perhaps we should give furcal a try. if we get Lowe too, I think we’re shaping up quite well. that and we’ll need to do something about the bullpen.
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 2:39 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Agreed.....
Wholesale changes aren’t needed. I’d like a stud for the pen, or two very good guys, need to clear up the last two spots in the rotation, and I’d love to get a really good SS.
by SoonerfanTU on
Sep 11, 2008 2:56 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
2009
Just by relying on Motte and Perez instead of Franklin and Izzy could gain the team 2 or 3 wins over the course of the season.
by Robb on
Sep 11, 2008 3:22 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
at least
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 4:16 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Yeah but I'm betting Luddy comes back to earth a bit.
I hope I’m wrong, though.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
Sep 11, 2008 4:56 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Yep
Next year I bet you see about a .280 average, and a decrease in HR’s of about 5-10. Still be good, just not as good.
As for the pen, I really think you’ll see Perez and Motte struggle quite a bit next year too. We still need another good, experienced arm to take the pressure off of them. And that is in addition to Springer and K-Mac.
by SoonerfanTU on
Sep 11, 2008 5:34 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
not too mention injuries
ank and lud are both pretty big injury concerns.
we really need to trade one of them and skip but color me skeptical that Mo will get it done. i’ve actually liked the job that Mo has done so far but i don’t think he has the experience when it comes to his trading prowess.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
by FutureMan on
Sep 11, 2008 6:24 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I'm confused
didn’t you say we need an overhaul earlier today?
by Hardcore Legend on
Sep 11, 2008 5:07 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
If I used that word.....
I shouldn’t have.
I’m just advocating moving one of Ankiel/Ludwick, getting a good hitting SS, and using Lopez at 2B. Not wholesale, but more than just adding a SS.
by SoonerfanTU on
Sep 11, 2008 5:35 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
why not trade Skip?
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Sep 11, 2008 7:08 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I am ok with a welly extension
however, since lowe is a type a, i am not ok with signing him…it was one thing to sign him at 36 to a potential 2 year 10mil+ a year deal when we had all of our draft picks…but to lose our first rounder, i just don’t think its worth it
resign looper…go with a rotation of carp(hopefully), waino, welly, looper, and piniero/boggs
leave mclellan in the bullpen, and sign some LHP relief help
then sign a legit MI
save that draft pick
by VolsnCards5 on
Sep 11, 2008 3:23 PM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Hey,
if we let Loshe walk and sign Lowe, we cancel out that Type A problem.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
Sep 11, 2008 4:57 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
If Loshe is a Type A
He may not be, the last prediction I saw had him as a Type B
by StLHugo on
Sep 11, 2008 5:08 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs

