First, Deal with the Worst
by azruavatar on Aug 8, 2008 9:16 AM EDT
286 comments
Raise your hand if you think Izzy's performance yesterday bought him another shot at a save situation? Let's see. . . yep that looks like everyone's got their hand raised. Despite some initial exuberance over Chris Perez, I have little doubt that Izzy's going to get another shot. Justifiable or not.
Moving on, the Cardinals signed Felipe Lopez ostensibly to provide a better bat in the middle infield. They demoted Brendan Ryan who has been hitting very poorly and not seeing a lot of playing time was sent done in order to "get regular at bats". Ignoring the effect this has on the Triple A team with Tyler Greene having been called up, the Cardinals would appear to be exchanging one bad hitter for another one -- only Lopez has been quite awful defensively.
Lopez was hitting .234/.305/.314 upon being released by the Nationals. Let's just think about that last part for a moment. The Nationals, who are tied for dead last in the league, released a player . . . and we claimed him. There's something very disturbing about that on a superficial level. There's a chance that Lopez could improve his hitting. His Marcel projection for the rest of the season is .258/.329/.379 which would be an upgrade over Brendan Ryan off the bench. As a defender, RZR pegged him as a -15 defender at SS in 2007, which, if accurate, negates any and all upgrade on offense. Several commenters have made the argument that "we need offense" right now and therefore that exchange is justified. While I sympathize with the desire for an improved middle infield bat, runs prevented and runs scored all go toward the same goal of winning. Reducing the former to increase the latter is nothing more than a lateral move.
Now Lopez has emerged as a left fielder for the Cardinals. The most likely reason this is happening at the moment is that the team is to stubborn to put Rick Ankiel on the DL. Since his last start 11 games ago, Ankiel has had 5 plate appearances. If the Cardinal medical staff thought he was going to be ready, I'll point the finger at them for a poor evaluation. If Tony La Russa thinks that it's better to have Ankiel on the roster for the occassional pinch hit, I'll point the finger at him for poor evaluation. The Cardinals have backed themselves into a shortened bench and depleted outfield situation and, given that Ankiel can't even run right now, one has to wonder whether he'll exacerbate the injury during an at bat. When Rick comes back, the Lopez in left field experiment should hopefully be at an end.
But, perish the thought, what if Ankiel doesn't come back? I'd rather not be forced into a bench of Stavinoha and Joe Mather. While I've been impressed with Mather but he's not a finished product and I still am of the opinion that Stavinoha is a minor league organizational player -- not someone you want on a contending team. Watching them make the last two outs against Lidge was nothing short of excruciating and to think that they may have increased prominence on a team that could go to the playoffs worries me. Yet, despite some uncertainty in the outfield, the Cardinals made no waiver claim on Brian Giles. With an OBP at .390 he'd provide some clear veteran depth that's also good. Instead he passes through the entire NL to reach the Red Sox. Baffling.
As another alternative to Lopez in left, perhaps the team should revisit the idea of Barry Bonds. Nate Silver took a look at the impact Bonds would have on a team over the last 40 games based on who he's replacing. He concludes that "Overall, we see Bonds contributing just 3.1 marginal runs to the Cardinals on the balance of the season. They can probably be eliminated as a serious contender." Ah but wait, Nate. Now we have Lopez in left field so Barry would be stealing some time from him too. At best, we're probably still talking about a fewer than 5 run marginal upgrade but there's another factor that I think should be taken into consideration: the playoffs.
If Rick Ankiel's injury becomes nagging and Lopez remains on the team getting at bats, those are problems. Bonds helps correct those but the returns over 40 games just aren't that immense (primarily due to defense). But is there a single player that would radically alter the appearance of a lineup more so than Bonds? How about one that comes at no cost in prospects and, allegedly, will play for the league minimum? If the Cardinals are serious about being contenders, Felipe Lopez isn't the answer. As impressive as they've been over the course of the season, the continue need to try and wring the last remaining talent out of players like Randy Flores, Kelvin Jimenez, Cesar Izturis and Felipe Lopez is confusing and likely damaging to their postseason chances.
I always target the player I perceive to be the worst player on the team. If the team is looking to make small, affordable moves, that is, imo, a great place to start. It's official; we have a new worst player on the team: Felipe Lopez. There's still time for a "real trade" to occur, but if the team keeps passing on players who are good (Giles) to take players that aren't (Lopez) then we're in for a long dash to the finish line.
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In other news
A-Rey is starting for the Indians tonight. I seem to remember him weaving some very good starts against AL teams before…
Predicted lines, anyone?
by mojowo11 on Aug 8, 2008 9:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
5 IP, 4ER, 3 SO 2BB
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on Aug 8, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And 115 pitches.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 8, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
9 IP 0 ER 10 K 0 H 3 BB
Yes, that’s right, no-hitter. You heard it here first ;)
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 8, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
man, that would be sweet
it would give my tribe fan buddy in iraq something to be excited about this season…
by mattybobo on Aug 8, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
RE: Claiming Lopez from Washington
Well, we took Wellemeyer after the dead last KC Royals dropped him. Maybe that will make you feel better.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Aug 8, 2008 9:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Was going to...
post the very same thing. Welley’s turned out okay for us this year. :)
by stlfan on Aug 8, 2008 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think we claimed Lopez.....
I think he was released, and we signed him. I could be wrong though.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 8, 2008 9:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're paying...
him the prorated portion of the league minimum rather than of his $4.9 mil contract, so I’d say you’re correct.
by cardzfanbub on Aug 8, 2008 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same situation with Wellemeyer
He was DFA’d, became a FA, and we signed him.
by liam on Aug 8, 2008 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2008 vs 2009
Lopez is a reclamation project. He’s got some upside with his bat, and is still under 30.
MLB shortstops don’t grow on trees, and plenty of guys have fallen off the map after joining the expos/nats. I’m not expecting much to come of Lopez, but it’s not the worst idea ever conceived.
Like it or not, this club building for 2009 and beyond. They’re not going to acquire a Will Clark or Larry Walker this year.
and seriously, why do so many people want to see that clubhouse cancer and future first ballot a-hole HOFer with the birds on the bat? He can probably still hit, but he’s a liability in the field and he’ll only be taking ABs away from younger guys we need to evaluate for next year. The thought of Barry Bonds raising the world series trophy alongside Pujols makes me want to puke.
by musial6 on Aug 8, 2008 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Agree with everything you said.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 8, 2008 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lopez is taking
away bast from the younger guys and he is terrible
by njnick on Aug 8, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What Lopez does...
Logically, if Lopez is now the worst player on the team, doesn’t that make everyone else instantly better? Don’t you see… the Cardinals have improved EVERYONE ELSE on the team by signing Lopez! It’s a brilliant move.
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
by palampe on Aug 8, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Never thought of it that way
lol
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 8, 2008 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
because bullshit like "club house cancer" ranks right up there with Grit.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Aug 8, 2008 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is it so hard to believe that someone can be a Club House Cancer?
Haven’t you had someone that you work with that is super annoying that drives you up the wall?
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 8, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
but if they are really awesome at their job, I ignore it and watch as the company continues to succeed.
Then I egg his car.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
bizarro-world note attached to bonds' car
“dear barry, you’ve beeng a real jerk lately so i hope egging your car will teach you a lessong.
signed,
not albert pujols.
p.s. hit some dingers today, mang”
by mattybobo on Aug 8, 2008 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahahahha
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Aug 8, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i have never had it affect my job...
that will get you fired, a professional in any field should be able to handle that.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 8, 2008 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I doubt anybody that had the mental toughness to make it to the bigs in the first place has the immaturity to let some other person’s “attitude problem” affect their performance. That’s elementary playground bullshit…not multimillion dollar PROFESSIONAL athletes.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Aug 8, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why isn't our outfield
Mather/Skip/Lud? Am I missing something?
by sdrone on Aug 8, 2008 9:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
lefty match-ups.
We tried to stack lefties against Kernshaw. Skippy over Lopez May Have resaulted in one more hit. But more than likely not.
by Evilfrog on Aug 8, 2008 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lopez
from baseball-reference.com is hitting .259/.317/.379 against lefties…
by UNCDubya on Aug 8, 2008 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Skippy
is hitting .165/.243/.186
So I really dont see how an outfield of Mather/Schumaker/Ludwick was going to be better offensivewise than Lopez/Mather/Ludwick. Im not arguing for Lopez to be our everyday outfielder. I dont want to see him out there just as much as everyone else. Just trying to explain the thought process of why he was out there.
Feel free to agree/disagree.
by Evilfrog on Aug 8, 2008 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is horrible. He needs to learn to hit lefties or he is an eternal 4th outfielder.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on Aug 8, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not on a TLR team
matchups only!
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 8, 2008 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if he hasn't learned by now... when will he?
I mean, it’s not like he just started playing baseball last year
by duncans_army on Aug 8, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think actually
we were stacking the lineup with righties. Skippy has been terrible against lefties this year. But this shows the problem with not having Ankiel on the DL. We have to use Lopez for our platoon with Skippy. Pathetic! Barton should be recalled soon to take Lopez’s place, but obviously that won’t happen. Its the same old crap…why the heck do we carry 4 middle infielders??
Milt Thompson FTW!
by gossard56 on Aug 8, 2008 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
righties..
That’s what I meant to say. I was thinking we were stacking Against Lefties and then changed it to stacking against Kershaw. And then I got all conflagulated.
by Evilfrog on Aug 8, 2008 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I forgot about Barton
We signed a bad backup SS and put him in LF when we already have a LF who hits lefties BETTER and is playing at AAA. Why did we sign Lopez, again, if he’s not going to give us a break from seeing Izturis attempt to hit bloopers over the infielders?
by chuckb on Aug 8, 2008 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I was just typing the same comment. It’s unfathomable that Lopez is playing OF for the Cards over Barton.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 8, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Link
Here’s the story:
http://www3.signonsandiego.com/weblogs/padres/2008/aug/07/red-sox-claim-giles/?padres
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 8, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Free Brian Barton
When does he have to return from his DL rehab stint? It’s frustrating to see FLOP-ez in LF when Barton would be a better choice.
Anyway, here’s to hoping that Felipe Lopez has a Gary Bennett circa August 2006 weekend against the Cubs. One can always dream, can’t they?
by Yellow Dog on Aug 8, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess maybe Lopez might be able to give Glaus a day off
at least
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 8, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well done
Barton’s hitting well at AAA and belongs here more than Lopez.
I suppose we can hope that the Cards are auditioning Lopez during the rest of Barton’s rehab and that he’s playing in the OF because Oquendo isn’t satisfied with his infield defending yet.
by liam on Aug 8, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so at the latest
when will Barton be returning? I know he can’t stay in AAA for much longer.
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 8, 2008 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can't figure out when he started his assignment
but he has played 15 games at Memphis. Considering he only gets a 20 day rehab assignment, and the team has had 1 off day during those 15 games (and assuming he’s been playing every game), then he’s on like day 17. I figure he’ll be back Monday or Tuesday.
Although, I could be completely wrong.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Aug 8, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which begs the question
why not just go ahead and call him back.
If the point of having him in Memphis is to get him ABs, he damn sure could have gotten them yesterday and today.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who goes when Barton does come back?
Garcia? Lopez? (my guess is Garcia)
If Lopez goes, then that explains why they didn’t go after Giles…... just wanted a cheap temp….. which I admit is a weird idea.
Then when Wainwright comes back, I think Thompson (or Garcia if he’s still here) will get the ticket to Memphis for a couple of weeks till the September call ups.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Aug 8, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You got to lose this Bonds thing
Bonds again? Geez, I thought that lunacy had been put to rest. There is a reason Barry Bonds is out there for the taking at all. There is a reason that not one of the 30 MLB teams have added him to their roster, and it’s not collusion. Consider that no American League team wants him as a DH, let alone a position player. At his age, having not played the game at any level for almost a year, it would take him till early September to hit his stride, whatever that would be. The last month and a half of his play with the Giants does not give much in the way of encouragement on that score. Add to that the fact that he can not play a position defensively – he would instantly become the worst defensive left fielder in the game – and you have a Hall of Fame pinch hitter whose Hall of Fame talent has long since passed.
All this for a guy who would be a clubhouse shit stool. You want a guy who could instantly wipe all the smiles off those rookie faces and suck the fun out of the game – Barry’s your man. I got no idea why you keep resurrecting this nonsense; is it deperation or a singular lack of imagination. Enough already.
by deweydell on Aug 8, 2008 9:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i agree
move on from the Bonds idea.
Milt Thompson FTW!
by gossard56 on Aug 8, 2008 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You nailed it deweydell
but somehow the Bonds silliness will just continue…some people just won’t give it up.
by ridgesee on Aug 8, 2008 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Silliness?
What’s silly is signing a backup SS who’s bad defensively and then sticking him in LF. I defended the Lopez signing as a “this can’t hurt” proposition when I thought he might actually play SS, thus saving us from watching more PA’s from Izturis. To find out we’re going w/ lineups of Miles or Kennedy, Izturis AND Lopez is mind-numbing. Lopez offers nothing in LF. It’s hard to believe that we need an OF to hit against lefties, but apparently we do.
I wonder if there are any OFs out there who would be cheap and wouldn’t cost any prospects, who could hit lefties AND righties, who could get on base A LOT and hit for power…Nah! That’s just silly!
by chuckb on Aug 8, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on all counts
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 8, 2008 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too.
The Bonds thing is not happening. While I am upset over the collusion that is going on by all MLB teams agreeing to keep him out, I don’t feel sorry for Barry at all. He made his bed, now he has to sleep in it. As for the Cardinals, they are clearly not going to make a significant move yet this season, so we should just give up on the idea. We have to win with what we have.
by Egyptian on Aug 8, 2008 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Move on?
I agree. Wait until HL logs on this morning though.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 8, 2008 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your personal vendetta with him is growing tiresome
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 8, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quite the opposite actually.
I disagree with him quite often, but I never made it personal until he did.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 8, 2008 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean like
telling me I was acting like a baby and that I should go root for another team?
I don’t care what you say about me but don’t lie about the situation.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not lie
but misrepresent.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So that was the first "personal" comment.....
either one of us made?
I just said above that I’ve started jabbing back. But it started with you. YOU took it personal that I was challenging alot of your posts, and I was, we don’t agree on much. But at first, I questioned your thoughts, not YOU. YOU made it personal, and you still do. Heck, you’ve posted snide comments in threads that I hadn’t even posted in.
I don’t like how you take shots at the Cardinals, their management, and their coach EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. Every other message board I post on, for every other team I support, if said team and their coach is any where near as successful as the Cardinals and TLR have been, and someone questioned them every day like you do, that poster wouldn’t last long. And you can blab on about open forum, your right to your opinion, and all that stuff, but after awhile, it just looks bad on you. If I posted like you do hear on a Sooner board about Stoops and the Sooners, I’d be banned within a month. Period. And rightfully so.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 8, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Again, you are misrepresenting the situation
find any thread where I posted a snide comment about you that you didn’t even post in and I’ll retract my statement.
It simply doesn’t exist.
And yes, that was the first personal statement made. And that above was NOT about my thoughts, it was a personal attack on me.
Find the situation where I made a snide comment about you in a thread you didn’t post in and I’ll revisit it.
Otherwise, that’s all I have to say about your issue.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this is the ugliest vendetta
since the “lighting stanchions” incident!
"so if you can’t understand what someone else is saying why don’t you just shut up about it instead of being a jerk-off?"
by baw on Aug 8, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't have the time.....
Or desire to read through what could be thousands of posts to find an example. I know it exists though. I’ve only very, very recently started posting in game threads. A week to 10 days ago, I know I opened up a game thread well after a game had ended, and read a snide comment from you, clearly directed at me, though you didn’t call me out by name. It was obvious though, as what you said could only have been directed at me.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 9, 2008 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sig heil!
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 8, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hardcore adds a lot
to the discussion.
Especially screencaps and photoshops.
Sweet, sweet photoshops.
That said, I don’t see this argument adding much.
by liam on Aug 8, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
start a diary for your firefights. Leave us out of it.
by enoscountry on Aug 8, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
its fine if you want to move on
but dont complain about the offense if you are not will to take the player that will help you the most and is also the cheapest.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 8, 2008 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dissagree
I hate this idea that baseball players are 8 year old girls. With few exceptions I don’t hear players say how they hated to play with him. As for your implication that Bonds hasn’t been signed by anyone because no one thinks he can hit. You mean to tell me the Cards (or any team) Really thinks Lopez (Sexton) can hit better than Bonds. That’s short sighted at best. And your statement about his performance last year. 30 AB’s REally 30 your argument is 30 ab’s why not add August when he had a 600+ slg?
by Harknights on Aug 8, 2008 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bonds hasn't played in a game in how many months?
Hasn’t seen live pitching in how long? Shagged fly balls?
Again, there is a reason EVERY team has stayed away from him. The short-sightedness of some of our fans is amazing.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 8, 2008 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
unless you are hanging out with Barry
i dont think you can say if he has been seeing live pitching or fly balls. for all we know he could be going to the ASU field everyday and hitting off pitchers and taking flies…something tells me Bonds isnt just sitting around getting fat not doing anything.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 8, 2008 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No way.
He is busy being measured for his prison uniform.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 8, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that cant take more than...
30 min…
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 8, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so sticking Felipe Lopez
in LF, is a better solution? And everyone else is short-sighted but you, huh? Comments like these are the reason people come on here and attack you personally.
by chuckb on Aug 8, 2008 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was/is.....
a two game thing. Ank will be back soon, and Lopez won’t get many, if any OF AB’s.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 8, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
we just gotta hope lopez doesn’t screw up to badly until ank comes back.
But i don’t understand why were not starting Mather.
by cardsrule15 on Aug 8, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope your right...
but I don’t suspect that you are
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 8, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How do you know Ank will be back soon?
We have been hearing that for way over a week now. Sometimes abdominal strains last a whole season, so is it really too difficult to think Ank might not come back?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 8, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
will tomorrow ever come?
I feel like I should have a scruffy dog and red polka dot f-in dress.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 9, 2008 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll bet you that Barry Bonds could come in right now
Without any warmups or anything like that and outperform Felipe Lopez
That’s the crux of the argument at this point…Barry vs. Felipe
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 8, 2008 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
very true
I can’t believe that we signed The Fliz! whatta joke
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 8, 2008 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not it isn't.....
Cause Lopez isn’t one of our main OF’s. Ankiel will be healthy soon enough, then Lopez will be, at best, our 5th OF option. Then when Barton comes up, he likely falls to the 6th option, UNLESS Barton replaces Mather.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 8, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you guys are boiling this down to too simple of an arguement
I think we signed Lopez for 2 reasons
first he is a better hitter then Brendan Ryan and other infielders
2nd he can play more positions then Brendan Ryan (3rd, outfield)
There has been a lot of times in the last month where we needed someone to pinch hit and we either couldn’t cause we didn’t have anybody to play the positions needed (which is worse Lopez in Left, or Miles?) SO basically Lopez becomes another option we need for Larussa’s move at the end of games (trying to eck out that extra run) now this is all well and good when Ankiel is healthy which i think when they made this move they were expecting to happen instead of him taking this long. Basing on the Fact Ankiel was suppose to be healthy, we send stav down and get perez to help in the bullpen. We then get lopez to take at bats away from Ryan and Ryan gets sent down. So with Ankiel healthy we get Ankiel and ludwick as everyday outfielders and Mather and SKippy splitting time and LaRussa doing his match up thing. Tell where does Bonds fit into that line up? Right now with out Bonds playing against Major league pitching for almost a year would you rather have Barry then Joey Bombs? I think thats the Crux of the arguement Barry vs Mather?
Hopefully this made some sort of sense. I’m kind of rambling….
New Member of the Skip Schumaker Fan Club
by cyko42 on Aug 8, 2008 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree but...
is it really worth it to sign bonds with ank on the way back.
by cardsrule15 on Aug 8, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no one really knows why no team has signed him
so any implication as to why is nothing more than speculation on your part. From a pure numbers perspective, a lot of teams are severely shooting themselves in the foot over Bonds.
by azruavatar on Aug 8, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As Silver pointed out though
they shot themselves in the foot long ago. The added value that Bonds brings decreases w/ every game. However, as you pointed out in your thread, he ignored the value that Bonds would bring to a playoff roster. He concluded that he helps the Angels, a team who is certainly destined for the playoffs, the most. Well, shouldn’t his value to their playoff roster, and the 11+ games they hope to play in the playoffs, be considered as well?
by chuckb on Aug 8, 2008 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
The very fact that it makes zero sense for no team to have a player who sported an OPS over 1.000 is a pretty strong indicator that there’s some sort of collusion against him. It is speculation, I agree, but I don’t think it’s baseless. As you say, people are really shooting themselves in the foot by not having him. Would all the teams in baseball independently decide not to deal with everything surrounding Bonds at the expense of their club’s success? I doubt it.
by mojowo11 on Aug 8, 2008 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So Carp can be cut on and not play for over a year
and come back but Bonds can’t?
And yes there is a reason EVERY team has past on Bonds and the reason is colu….errrrrr…they feel players like Lopez, Cairo, Sexton and such are better. Ok whatever lets you sleep at night.
by Harknights on Aug 8, 2008 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To be fair
Carp had a long time to rehab and find his stuff again.
Now to the end of the season isn’t exactly a long time for Bonds to get oriented again…and even then, we’d much prefer if he’d be back to form much sooner than the end of the season.
by mojowo11 on Aug 8, 2008 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't it possible that Barry Bonds might actually be able to play
BETTER after having 10 months off? Those bad knees and balky elbow, I’m sure, could have used the extra rest to heal and regain pain free motion.
It cuts both ways.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Yes, mangement of EVERY team in the Major Leagues got together and decided not to let Barry play any more.
No way some ** like that could be kept quiet. And no way EVERY team’s management would agree to such a thing.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 8, 2008 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They did it
so the Cubs would win the world series, of course.
by liam on Aug 8, 2008 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You do remember the winter meetings
in which Theo Epstein attempted to get all 30 teams to take part in collusion, right?
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not even close.....
to the same “type” of collusion. Apples and oranges. Plus, it was pretty much determined (from all I’ve read anyways), that is really wasn’t collusion.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 8, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everyone laughed in 1985
at the thought of collusion, until, of course, the investigation exposed it.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
If we’re going to do the conspiracy thing, this could have come down from the MLB offices. I think we all know how much Bud and Company like Bonds, it wouldn’t surprise me all that much if they started it.
I just don’t think 30 teams decide independently that they don’t need the OF who had a 1.000 OPS last year. It seems just as unlikely as everyone agreeing not to sign him.
by mojowo11 on Aug 8, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 8, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It mostly makes sense to move on regarding Bonds
because it is clear that ownership will not allow him to be a Cardinal. For that reason alone, I don’t usually waste my time with the Bonds threads. But to seriously state that the Cardinals shouldn’t consider Bonds because he hasn’t played in a while is laughable. He would get on base more than half our roster even if he didn’t get a single hit.
If you don’t like Bonds just say it, making up absurd reasons why he wouldn’t be a good ballplayer just diminishes your credibility.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Aug 8, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh yeah
Felipe Lopez is lots better than Bonds. Wow! It’s not even close! So are Izturis, Kennedy and Stavinoha! Hell, we should put Joel Pineiro in left before giving Bonds a chance.
by chuckb on Aug 8, 2008 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure....
Sosa still wants to play too. Why not sign him? And Palmiero. I’m sure they would love to get back out there. Raffy was still hitting HR’s when he left the game. Surely the lack of seeing a major league pitch for over a year can’t hurt his approach at the plate.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 8, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can't be serious!
Sosa’s OPS last year was .779. Bonds’ was 1.045. Palmeiro, who last played in 2005, finished his career w/ an OPS of .786. To compare them to Bonds is just bizarre.
And, as for Bonds, I’ll bet he can still tell a ball from a strike; one that’s a good pitch to hit from one that’s not. Of course, I guess we could continue to stick Felipe Lopez in LF and Izturis at SS. That sounds like a good idea, too.
by chuckb on Aug 8, 2008 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How Bonds would hit NOW vs.
how others would hit NOW is not the point. The point is that the likelihood of the Cardinals signing BB is equal to the likelihood that LaRussa will suddenly grow a 2nd head and be twice as intelligent. It just ain’t gonna happen and this argument is purely academic.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 8, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I know
it isn’t going to happen. I don’t dispute that. I never thought they would. But running Felipe Lopez to LF isn’t the answer either and it’s silly to pretend that that’s a better solution than signing Bonds would be. Also, I think this whole silliness demonstrates what a poor decision it was to not even place a claim in on Giles. As I said earlier, he probably wouldn’t be worth the prospects he’d cost in a trade, but if signing Lopez is worth a shot, so is placing a waiver claim in on Giles.
by chuckb on Aug 8, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay
Rational minds agree Bonds would improve our offense.
Rational minds do not necessarily agree that he would be a good signing due to other factors including a media circus, the likelihood of collusion, and his general jackassery.
Irrational minds sometimes cite PEDs. Rational minds know to ignore this because it’s an invalid argument given that these irrational minds aren’t calling for Glaus to be DFA’d.
Rational minds also know that it’s not happening. It’s just. Not. Happening.
So could we move past this now? He’d help. We get it. But it’s not happening. So let’s stop bringing it up every single day in comments and fanposts and so on. It’s not happening. You might as well say that we should bring Elvis back from the dead to play left field. Fun to talk about? Sure—TO A POINT. But is it going to happen? No. So let’s stop talking about bringing Elvis back from the dead every single day. It’s getting tiresome and the argument is exhausted.
By the way, this is directed at everyone in general, not just you HC.
by mojowo11 on Aug 8, 2008 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so we can't talk about good ideas
that almost all of us agree are good, b/c they’re highly unlikely? Why? It’s a genuine criticism of Cards’ management to evaluate their strategy for getting us into the playoffs. Giles wasn’t claimed by the Cards. We can’t put that toothpaste back in the tube. Does that mean that it’s not valid to state that the Cards screwed up when they didn’t place that waiver claim? Since it’s never going to happen, we can’t discuss its merits?
Choosing Lopez over Bonds, which is what the organization did, seems to have been a horrible decision. While Bonds can’t play SS, apparently Tony has no intention of allowing Lopez to play SS either. Therefore, the Lopez signing was, w/o a doubt, an awful one, particularly in light of the fact that Bonds is still available. In my mind, that’s a reasonable discussion point and a reasonable criticism of the organization.
by chuckb on Aug 8, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's perfectly valid to talk about Giles
Because it’s news. It’s recent. It happened today.
This Bonds tangent has been ongoing for the entire damn year and all we’ve heard straight from the mouth of our own GM is that the team has zero, zilch, no interest in the guy. I’m not firmly on either side of the Bonds argument, but I have read through a number of front-page posts and hundreds of comments, a couple of fanposts, and then a bunch of mini-debates like this one about how Bonds is better than X. He’s always better than X. He had an OPS over 1.000 last year, for chrissake. But the discussion itself is redudant and tired and I think maybe it’s time we stopped having it quite so often.
The Bonds signing is not “unlikely.” It’s basically impossible. The man who makes the decisions on such things, our GM, has vehemently insisted that Bonds is “not on the table” and “was never being considered.” He continually talks about how the team is considering all options—except not Bonds. That’s how unlikely it is. Even the FO that talks about considering all angles is making an exception for this particular angle.
I’d be saying the same thing about the Giles discussion if it reappeared every couple of days for the next three months. Fun debate. Definitely worth discussing. But the phrase “ad nauseum” comes to mind, especially considering not a single thing about the situation surrounding a potential Bonds signing has changed since the beginning of spring training.
by mojowo11 on Aug 8, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you don't want to participate
don’t. It isn’t hard. I read through stuff here all the time that I have no interest in. There was some bullshit the other day about movies and Batman or something. If you want to move on, move on. However, when people type stuff like “Bonds won’t help the team” or “Bonds hasn’t seen live pitching in a long time so he sucks” or “he’s no better than Sosa or Palmeiro”—that’s just silly.
The Lopez vs. Bonds vs. Giles debate is one worth having and if you don’t want to participate, don’t. It’s easy.
by chuckb on Aug 8, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 8, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Elvis in left field......Hmm
VEB readership in the UK would skyrocket.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Aug 8, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but man, think about it
the ability to grow a 2nd head and be twice as intelligent would just be awesome. think about what steven hawking could accomplish.
by mattybobo on Aug 8, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but all of them are presumed to take PED's
and we CANNOT have any of that!!!
except Ankiel
and Glaus
and Franklin…
but any more than 3 would be too terrible to consider!
how about we cut Frankie and sign Bonds then our quota will still be intact…
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 8, 2008 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm totally down with cutting Franklin and signing Bonds
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 8, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
read it again
this isn’t a request for Barry Bonds. The only reason I brought him up is because Nate Silver had a very insightful piece on his impact over the last 40 games.
Just skip the Bonds part and focus on the part where they are playing Lopez in the outfield but can’t even manage to place a waiver claim on Brian Giles. Everyone’s so damn busy excoriating Bonds that they can’t see past his name to recognize the argument behind it.
by azruavatar on Aug 8, 2008 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Giles
I have to believe the decision not to place a waiver on him would have been because of his contract, and also possibly because he was discussed by both front offices before the trade deadline so Mo know what it would cost to get him—and that maybe the price was too high. I don’t know any of this for sure, it’s pure speculation on my part.
Lopez isn’t costing this team anything. Zilch. No prospects, a pittance share of the minimum salary, he’s a scrap heap pickup that might help our middle infield situation if he can find his offensive stroke. He’s an offensive upgrade over Brendan Ryan, and we have Izturis and Kennedy, two of the top defenders in the big leagues at their respective positions, to play defense in the late innings if necessary.
I don’t agree with Tony playing him in LF, especially with Barton down at AAA hitting the cover off of the ball, but I have to believe the reason that he’s started two games out there since he was signed was because of the starting pitchers in those two games. Playing Skip vs. a lefty is adding another pitcher to the lineup where you already have one pitching spot. He’s flat out terrible against left-handed pitching.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 8, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My only quibble
Is Kennedy really one of the best defenders at 2B? I sort of doubt that.
by mojowo11 on Aug 8, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's definitely the best one we have
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 8, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So which MI will be DFA'd when Barton is activated
so that Lopez can remain on the roster? Oh wait, they will probably send Mather down as he has been outplayed by Lopez, hasn’t he? After all, the best guys are going to play and you just can’t stop Felipe Lopez.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Aug 8, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regarding Izzy, Perez, et al.
Here is a article entitled “the most overrated position in sports”. This is pretty much what has been discussed over and over again here in VEB concerning the role of the closer. (Apologies for quoting an ESPN article). After Perez’s save Thur. night, TLR seem to imply that closing might be done on a case by case basis. I am hoping that he will scratch the slotting system based on innings (7th, 8th, 9th) and instead go with situational pitching. It amazes me that a person who is so consumed with playing matchups is at the same time committed to slottting according to the inning. I guess I don’t buy the fact that RPs are more comfortable if they know their roles meaning which inning to come in.
BTW, why does TLR insist on not using Villone solely as a LOOGY? Way to waste Villone by pitching him vs. Andrew Jones and then lifting him the other night.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Aug 8, 2008 9:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm still hoping
Tony’s comments are a smokescreen to ‘protect’ Perez from too much pressure….but he plans to use him in every closing situation. Calling on him for a 5 out save wed was telling, I think.
If they end up going to izzy again, It’s an absolute certainty that the seat just being warmed for Wainwright. And that is horrible news.
I just can’t see how you take your ace pitcher over the last 13 months and take him out of the starting rotation….
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 8, 2008 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't call him for a 5-out save
He called him for the 8th and it only took Perez 5 pitches to finish that inning. It would’ve been stupid not to let him go out for the ninth after the guy barely had to exert himself in the 8th. Just because he got a save doesn’t mean he was being sent out there to get one.
by mojowo11 on Aug 8, 2008 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmm...
maybe your right. I’m grasping for straws; trying to believe that he will stick with Perez in closing situations for at least a week or so….
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 8, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I read that article the other day...
It’s the perception of the closer that is overrated; starting pitching in infinitely more important to the overall strength of the ballclub. However, I take offense to the assertion that those Atlanta teams didn’t have a defined closer—they all had a defined closer, and they all had homegrown arms that were tremendously effective in their bullpen on their run of division titles. I believe they had a top 6 NL bullpen in every single year to go along with a tremendous starting staff. Also, their bullpens had some historic meltdowns in the playoffs over the years, which contributed to them only winning one World Series over that 15 year span.
I look at it like this: If you have a starting staff that can get to the 7th inning effectively, the need for a bullpen becomes more leveraged at that point because you have fewer outs to get. If you have the 2008 Cardinal starting staff, in which 3 pitchers rarely see the 7th inning (Looper, Piniero, Wellemeyer) and since June have seen a 4th spot with the same problem (Boggs, Parisi, et al) then your bullpen situation becomes less leveraged and becomes shorter because of the amount of innings they are required to work. This is why Harden fits in so well with the Cubs this year—they can afford to throw him 5 innings a start because the two starters in front of him in the rotation, Zambrano and Dempster, get to the 7th or 8th inning in nearly every start, allowing them to rest their bullpen.
There are ways to offset this, and the 1996 Yankees, 2007 Yankees, and 2002-2008 Angels are the best examples of it. They feature relievers who effectively shorten every game to a 7 inning game by putting two nearly unhittable pitchers at the back end of their bullpens. The 1996 Yanks had Rivera in inning 8 and Wetteland in inning 9, the 2007 Yanks had Joba for the 8th and Rivera for the 9th, and the Angels have had the combination of Scot Shields/Brendan Donnelly in the 8th and K-Rod in the 9th for nearly that entire stretch of years. Those clubs didn’t lose games where they led in the 7th inning or later very often, allowing the managers of those teams to go into defensive replacement mode in the 8th inning, figuring they weren’t going to have to score any runs. It gives a decided advantage to a team that is able to shorten a game—their starters don’t have to go as many innings, and the other pitchers in the bullpen don’t get overworked or put into situations where they aren’t going to be successful
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 8, 2008 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone think that it's possible
for TLR to so mismanage the young players he’s got this year that he could actually be fired?
Unlikely, I know, but is it completely out of the question?
However, re the issue of Ankiel not going on the DL when he should have, I dump responsibility for that in Moz’s lap, even if TLR had input into that decision.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 8, 2008 10:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
you are insane
almost every local and national commentator is heralding this as the best managing job in his storied career. To take this roster and make it competitive – still – in August, is still remarkable
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 8, 2008 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I am so sick of the Tony haters…........I bet if we fired Tony people would be smashing our new manager for moves he makes….........
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 8, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i agree
i dont agree with all of Tony’s moves (F. Lopez in LF) but i see some moves or non moves other managers make and it makes me grateful.
we could always have dusty baker…
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 8, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this roster has 2 of the best hitters in the major leagues
not many teams can say that
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 8, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How's that pitching staff been?
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Aug 8, 2008 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good enough to be in the playoff hunt
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 8, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They also have 2 of the worst
Izturis and Lopez.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Post article
Interesting quotes from LaRussa in todays Post online:
“The worst thing we can do is heap expectations on Perez and anoint him the closer,” La Russa said. “Mostly because he’s not ready for it.”La Russa cited how the team nurtured Adam Wainwright in 2006 first as a reliever before he closed in October and started the next April. He compared Wainwright that season to Kyle McClellan this season, and the manager contrasted that with how the team shoved Anthony Reyes into a starting role.
This, to me, does not sound like an inability to manage young players.
by cdb on Aug 8, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rick Ankiel in the 2000 Playoffs
Brilliant managing of a young player. For every success, there’s a failure. What’s more, sometimes necessity forces one’s hand. If TLR wants to win, he should be using Perez as closer because he is the best for the role on the roster right now. The sun has set on Izzy as closer. If TLR continues to spew “Perez isn’t ready” and trots out Izzy, we know he is in denial. Perez has closed from college on and was drafted to be our closer. He should get the chance over Izzy and Franklin because they have demonstrated time and again that they are not suited for the job, no matter how many years they’ve been in the League.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 8, 2008 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No kidding
I read that and I thought, “Okay, so I agree Perez could use more seasoning. So instead of throwing him into the fire, we’ll just close the guy in the bullpen who is more ready than he is, which is…oh yeah, nobody.”
We don’t ask that Perez be perfect, just better than what we have. Surely he’s ready to be, I don’t know, capable of sporting an ERA lower than 18.00 in save situations.
by mojowo11 on Aug 8, 2008 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not saying
that perez isn’t ready to be closer – just saying that LaRussa isn’t ‘mismanaging’ youngsters in the general sense. I am not blindly going to defend LaRussa’s choice of situational releif pitcher usage, but I also am not going to blindly say that he is misusing all rookies – both are nonsense. As you say – there are successes and failures. All he is trying to do is maximize success and minimize failure. He has interactions with these players that we don’t – and if he thinks that Perez ‘is not ready’ – there could be something to it – either regarding confidence or actual skills. We as fans are largely blind to these issues – we simply don’t have the access that they have.
by cdb on Aug 8, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and by tony's logic
K-Mac is ready to close (b/c he has had Adam’s pre-Sept 2006 role almost to a tee up to this point).
So, if not Perez, let K-mac do it, just like Adam did.
But, please, do not take an ace starter and put him in the bullpen!
by cardsfaninmass on Aug 8, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
more to the point
he mis/over manages all his players. would skippy hit lefties better if he played against them regularly? never will know the answer. tony continually over values the handedness for hitters and pitchers.
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
by sportsman on Aug 8, 2008 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By 'shoved Anthony Reyes into a starting role'
does he mean call him up over multiple years for spot starts, send him back to the minors to start 2006 so Pontoon Boat could start games and THEN finally call him up, only to have him throw a 1 hitter?
Then force him to throw everything down in the zone, where even Al Hrbosky said yesterday, took away all the good movement his pitches had?
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
That’s what he meant.
Are there any further questions?
by mojowo11 on Aug 8, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope.
That should about cover it. Thanks for your time Tony, I’ll let you and Miles get back to your bottle.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait a sec
if al said that, i’m not so sure i believe anymore…
by mattybobo on Aug 8, 2008 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't you know, it is CUBS turn this year . . .
With the MLB/ESPN/FOX push to have the Cubs in the World Series in this 100th Anniversary year, Bill DeWitt would not be looked upon favorably in the owners country club if he were to make any real moves. Tony and the players keep playing to win this year, but the FO seems to think differently.
I know the foregoing will be met with derision and contempt, but I am baffled by any other explanation. With just marginal investment, we could win THIS year; the number of blown saves shows that. We do not know what will happen next year, and any kind of rational, business analysis would show that our chances of winning this year are probably better than next year with its uncertainty factor.
by NoStro on Aug 8, 2008 10:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I love conspiracy theorists
“I don’t like what happened here and I don’t have an explanation readily at hand…clearly there’s a huge plot going on behind the scenes! “
Here’s a fun fact: with “marginal investment,” you don’t get useful players. So no, we couldn’t win this year with “marginal investment,” we could win this year with SERIOUS investment, i.e. trading away a good young player or two for a rental.
As for your “business plan,” if you haven’t noticed, it’s basically impossible for any team that doesn’t have a $200 million payroll to build a team out of free agency. Therefore, a good business model in baseball involves developing young, cost-controlled players to ensure future success. These young players combined with expensive veterans combine to make an affordable team that can produce from all positions. See: The Boston Red Sox. If every time you’re in a race you sell the farm because of the “uncertainty factor” going forward, you probably won’t have any amount of sustained winning.
by mojowo11 on Aug 8, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'll give the red sox credit for their player development
so you’re totally right about that. but to nitpick just a little, they do have a payroll of about 133 million dollars this year (though they are a few mil behind the mets and tigers, of which i was unaware—the tigers payroll jumped over 40 million this year, yikes). the red sox have the best of both worlds, which seems a little unfair to me.
by mattybobo on Aug 8, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
The Red Sox have a lot of money, but the fact that they’ve needed cost-controlled players like Pedroia, Ellsbury, Buchholz, Papelbon, Delcarmen, Masterson, Moss (now a Pirate), Lowrie, and Lester built an elite-ish team (in the thick of the race in the AL East) is evidence of just how true it is that money can’t buy elite teams out of free agency anymore.
It certainly helps to have the money they have. But even $133 million isn’t enough, believe it or not.
by mojowo11 on Aug 8, 2008 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow, i had forgotten just how many examples there were... again, i completely agree with your point, and you're right
that even the sawx, mets, and tigers can’t do it without their solid farm systems. actually, i don’t know much about that mets. but yeah.
by mattybobo on Aug 8, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The crux of the matter is...
that their enormous payrolls ENABLED them to add high-priced veterans via free-agency, versus trading their farm system away. They get to have their cake and eat it too.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 8, 2008 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One glaring player missing from you list...
would be Hanley Ramirez which enabled them to get the two guys most responsible for their playoff success last season, Mike Lowell and Josh Beckett. They’re farm system over the last five seasons is incredibly efficient at turning out top talent.
That said—they also sign all of their draft picks, and take some over slot, which is where their payroll helps them out the most, imo.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 8, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of the draft, how about a Porcello update?
Fredrick Alfred “Rick” Porcello III
6-6, 2.84 ERA, 2:1 K/BB in high A ball.
by mojowo11 on Aug 8, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget Anibal Sanchez....
he tossed a no-no for the Marlins.
"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley
by TurdFerguson on Aug 8, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess the Brewers were frowned on when they acquired Sabathia?
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 8, 2008 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you westcoastbird?
cuz you sound like him…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 8, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Giles? Baffling?
I don’t think it’s so baffling they passed on Giles. They guy has $2.7M left on his contract and is due $9M for next year (or a $3M buyout.). Anyone want to pay Giles $9M for 2009?
For all the lecturing on fiscal sanity that goes on around here it’s curious to see an endorsement of paying what amounts to $5.7M (and having to trade a player or players to San Diego) for two months of Brian Giles.
Sure, he’d be nice to have right now, while Ank’s out. But who sits when Ank comes back? Schumaker? Well, he’s a leftly like Giles, and has a .301 .364 .414 , compared to Giles’ .295 .390 .423. And Schu will cost the team about $5.55M less than Giles over the next two months.
Don’t get me wrong, Giles would be a great add, but not for the $$$$.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Aug 8, 2008 10:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We could always buy out the contract
for $3 M. AZ’s right, if the team was serious about contending, rather than putting Lopez in LF, they could’ve put a claim in on Giles. Now, it would probably cost more in terms of prospects than he’s worth, but I’ve got no problem w/ the money, as long as we bought out the option.
by chuckb on Aug 8, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well yeah,
I said right in my post that he has a $3M buyout, so I factored that in. Still, $5.7M for less than 2 months of Brian Giles is OK with you?
OK, there’s neither wrong nor right there, so there’s not much to discuss. You either think it’s too much or you don’t.
So, we’re back to the issue of trading prospects for a veteran. And by your statement you seem to think Giles would not be worth what the Padres would probably ask for him. So, I guess I’m not sure where you stand.
And it brings up the further question, if Giles is desireable, why not just go after him before the waiver deadline?
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Aug 8, 2008 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where I stand
is that a waiver claim should’ve been placed on him. Mo could then call Kevin Towers (or vice-versa) and try to work out a deal for prospects. It probably would’ve cost us too much in terms of prospects, as I clearly stated, so a trade wouldn’t have been made. However, since we chose NOT to place a waiver claim on him, we’ll never get the opportunity to find out what he’d cost in a trade.
As for the money, again, as I clearly stated, the fact that his contract would come off the books after we buy out his option makes the contract affordable. Is he worth $5.7 M? If he adds a win or two that pushes us into the playoffs, I’d have to say that he is.
So, once again, here’s where I stand: we should have put in a claim and found out what the Padres wanted in a trade. The contract is fine since we won’t have to pay him $9 M next year. Also, in answering the question that you asked—“Anyone want to pay Giles $9 M for ‘09?” I’ll say no but again, we wouldn’t have to.
by chuckb on Aug 8, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We could have given them David Freese back
since both Allen Craig and the Walrus are raking right now.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
think they'd go for it?
i ask that sincerely, since i’m no expert on these things. seems like the farm is finally able to deal from a surplus in a few areas. “mortgaging the future” = bad, but i like the idea of making smart deals we can afford.
by mattybobo on Aug 8, 2008 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pads need any prospect they can get
The SD media is really down on this club and their farm system. They really wanted KT to make some move any move to pick up some prospects at the deadline.
by OCCardsFan on Aug 8, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I’m not sure I’m willing to pay what the Padres would ask for…but at least putting a claim on him would’ve been nice.
Remind me—what happens when the two teams involved can’t work out a deal for the claimed player in question?
by mojowo11 on Aug 8, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they're revocable waivers
The Padres would pull him back and the Red Sox would have never gotten a chance to work out a trade. He stays a Padre for the rest of the season and then they either pick up the contract or buy him out of it.
by chuckb on Aug 8, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually
They can put him on a waivers a second time. But the second time, it’s irrevocable.
by Red in Chicago on Aug 8, 2008 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He just goes back
to the Padres when they reclaim him.
Or they just cut him loose to the Cardinals.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said
“Anyone want to pay Giles $9M for 2009?” to illustrate that the buyout would certainly be exercised. I thought the fact that I referenced $5.7M in my next sentence made that clear. Guess not. I’m just trying to explain that the point about the buyout you keep making was understood from the get go.
As for talking to Towers, I agree with your scenario, but we have no idea if Mo had already done that before the deadline.
It’s just curious to me to that Brian Giles is the guy that the VEB crowd wants to dip into the coffers for. Not that it’s a bad choice. Don’t take it that way. I am all in favor of breaking out the checkbook to help the team into October. It’s just that the talk around here is so centered on long-term planning and making the most of your $$$, that it’s interesting that it’s decided that the guy to use your savings on is Giles, for two months.
Well, it will never happen, so perhaps we should scan the majors for a similar guy who could give this team a lift…...
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Aug 8, 2008 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Giles
can hit righties AND lefties – Skippy, not so much.
by njnick on Aug 8, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Red Sox in on Giles
ESPN is reporting that the Sox have a claim on him. Wouldn’t that put them in front of us for priority in obtainin him?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 8, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We would have prevailed if we put in a claim
Because as I understand it any NL team had priority over any AL team.
by OCCardsFan on Aug 8, 2008 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's right
NL teams have the right to claim others on NL teams before AL teams do. We would’ve won the waiver claim before the Sox.
by chuckb on Aug 8, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Giles is doing that in the worst hitters park in the game
He’s a considerably better offensive player than Schumaker.
by azruavatar on Aug 8, 2008 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Granted
Of course Giles > Schu. But is the difference in production worth the extra salary and the prospects we’d have to give up to get him?
In other words, is Giles going to give you $5.7M worth of difference from what you’ve already got? And is that difference going to get the team into the playoffs AND be worth sacrificing a prospect?
I can see the argument for trying to get Giles, but I disagree with the notion that passing on him was “baffling.” The fact that 27 other teams passed on Giles sort of sways me, even though I know not every team is in the same position the Cards are in.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Aug 8, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it has more to do with
is Giles and Prospects worth more than Stavinoha/Lopez in LF. Because Ankiel has spent most of this season dinged up and counting on him to play the remaining 40 games is not a good idea.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I think that's right
If there’s one spot on the team where an upgrade would have a limited impact, it’s outfield. Don’t forget, Brian Barton will be back in about three days.
by Red in Chicago on Aug 8, 2008 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but LaRussa seems terrified to let Barton play in the outfield......
Which continues to baffle me.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Aug 8, 2008 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially since he puts
Lopez out there now.
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Aug 8, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahh but Lopez is an MLB veteran
So clearly he is well-experienced in playing the outfield in all MLB parks (nevermind that much of that experience was as in infielder)
The reluctance to play Barton is very frustrating particularly given the excuses offered for not playing him.
by OCCardsFan on Aug 8, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If SD didn't pick up any of Giles salary
then the “prospects” wouldn’t be anyone significant
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Aug 8, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would take him.
That buyout is only one Izturis. That’s the currency I use.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Aug 8, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Giles
i was flabbergasted when i saw not one(!) team in the NL put a claim on a .390 obp with decent pop. it is basically Larry Walker from a frew years ago minus the great arm. i would LOVE him hittings second for us!!!
granted the $9 million next year is a little steep since we have a plethra of outfielders in the system but i dont think any of them are capable of putting up a .400 obp.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 8, 2008 10:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Giles
Is no Larry Walker….................
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 8, 2008 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're right
ops+
Larry Walker: 140
Brian Giles: 138
he is a left handed on base machine RF with good power skills and good base runner…that is nothing like Larry…now i will grant you definsively Walker was superior and he did have a little more power but if you move Giles out of Petco his power numbers couldnt help but improve.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 8, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you have that ready
knowing someone would make that comment?
by njnick on Aug 8, 2008 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no but...
i do have baseball reference at the top of my bookmarks so that makes it nice.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 8, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
after VEB of course
n/t
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 8, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just wish baseball reference would make a firefox search bar plug in thingy
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Aug 8, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can make those yourself, you know
From what I understand it’s not particularly hard. Try Googling it.
by mojowo11 on Aug 8, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Erik posted about it at FR
there’s a firefox add-on that makes them automatically here.
It works beautifully, I’d been making them myself until that came along.
by liam on Aug 8, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poor AZ
I hate to see it when you get stuck in a programing loop. I’m e-mailing you a patch to download to your software that will fix the Barry Bond Virus you must have picked up surfing some less then reputable web sites. So this doesn’t happen again I’m also including the Barry Bonds Fire Wall that all MLB teams have now implemented. Don’t be scared, it’s just like the upgrade you had to get along with Robot 1X. The sooner you do it the happier we’ll all be.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Aug 8, 2008 10:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i'm more surprised
the Cards passed on Chad Bradford given all their bullpen woes, and the fact that Bradford keeps the ball with extreme prejudice.
Amaury translates into "Punisher of Spheroids" in the lost tongue of Atlantis. Marti means "Belgian Waffle." www.futureredbirds.net
by erik on Aug 8, 2008 11:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
another good point
though I’m not sure, right now, of Bradford’s contract situation. I think he’s signed for 1 more year at around $3 M.
by chuckb on Aug 8, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As was I
Although he’s absolutely no help against lefties and can’t close, so I’m not sure he fills a need.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 8, 2008 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As long as it's not the 9th inning, Izzy
is welcome to pitch anytime. I laugh every time he does well in the 6th-8th innings with a lot less pressure and does well…. and people jump back on his bandwagon. Pavlov’s dog learned faster.
by ccthemovieman on Aug 8, 2008 11:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who jumped
on his bandwagon? Besides LaRussa, of course.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I blame Colby Rasmus
we wouldn’t be having this discussion if Razza hadn’t injured his leg!
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 11:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If he hadn't injured his leg
he’d be in Beijing right now.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Aug 8, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmmm
I disagree. I think they would have cost him his chance to play in the Olympics because of the timing of Mather/Stavinoha being called up and Ankiel’s injury.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Disagree
He’d be in Beijng. I would hope that playing for our country would trump a pennant chase when this is likely his only opportunity to play in the Olympics but he’ll be helping us in pennant chases for the next decade.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 9, 2008 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See, people will do anything
to avoid that Beijing smog!
by Red in Chicago on Aug 8, 2008 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You Apologize about that Smog Now!
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 8, 2008 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you the Chinese Internet Censor?
by Red in Chicago on Aug 8, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was in reference to this.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,398486,00.html
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Aug 8, 2008 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes we would
he’s a lefty. Lopez would’ve still started in LF.
by chuckb on Aug 8, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I mean, for chrissake
Kenny Lofton is even unemployed. He’s a crusty old vet AND can lead off.
Yet Felipe Nopez is playing LF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHEFSDSFIHJERW
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lofton's a better option
I hate that guy but he’d be a better option.
by chuckb on Aug 8, 2008 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
HC, I think you just summed up...
The ENTIRE Bonds and Lofton debate. These guys are assholes. The only people that like them are people they have to PAY to like them (attorneys, agents, etc…).
It comes down to winning at all costs or winning with a team we like. Bonds/Lofton may help us win a couple more games, but is it worth the bad taste in your mouth for it? For some of us the answer is yes. Others (myself included) would say no.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 8, 2008 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You would really rather lose
than have someone on the team you don’t like? I have never understood that argument. How do we know that every other player on the team isn’t an asshole of the field?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 8, 2008 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is unbelievable
Playing Lopez aka Caesar the Second in the outfield is shameful.
by bdub78 on Aug 8, 2008 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ted Lilly starts today, right?
That means more Lopez for us to enjoy?
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 11:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lets try him in center today!
Or maybe see if he can catch!
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Aug 8, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if before signing Lopez
if Mozeliak put a call in to Seattle to see if ‘Ole Reliable Cairo was available.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
poor seattle...
they probably need cairo to dh now that they finally got rid of vidro. as an aside, is there reason to expect seattle to be competitive in the next 5 years? i hate seeing the way they’ve been manage into the ground.
by mattybobo on Aug 8, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's still crazy
considering that they could dh sexon and put cairo at 1b. Still horrible, but better, I would think
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Aug 8, 2008 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh. i think we can agree that vidro = terrible dh
though i’m sure cairo would give him a run for his money
by mattybobo on Aug 8, 2008 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know how plausible that really is
Especially considering Sexson’s on the Yankees.
by mojowo11 on Aug 8, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't that
Bedard trade one of the worst in recent memory looking back on it? They’re going to have a hard time dealing him for similar value now. They gave up a starting CF and a lefty with closer stuff to get him, not to mention a couple other minor players.
They also passed up a chance to deal Washburn’s contract when they definitely should have dumped it at the deadline. Just piss poor management by their FO, and some people think ours is bad…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 8, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup. adam jones opsed something like .970 in AAA as a 21 year old.
it’s just sad. the mariners are my favorite AL team (wife’s from portland, OR)
by mattybobo on Aug 8, 2008 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't quite OPS .970 this year
But RZR does have him as the best CF’er…
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Aug 8, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, this is his first year in the majors as a regular, right?
giving up jones alone would have been sad for one meaningless year of bedard. the fact that they gave up something else of value is just depressing.
by mattybobo on Aug 8, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should have grabbed Belliard
He can play right field AND second base simultaneously!
by Red in Chicago on Aug 8, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know the Belliard comment is a joke...
but it still angers me that we let him go to the Nats for the league minimum.
by bdub78 on Aug 8, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
we should still have Belliard
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 8, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of seeing if he can catch
let’s put him at catcher! I heard Yadier felt like playing SS today, so that would work out.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Aug 8, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
since i have lilly on my fantasy team
and my fantasy team is quickly going down the tubes, he will probably have a terrible game, or so i’m hoping…
by launchshuttle on Aug 8, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we should just.....
Sign Juan Gonzalez. Unlike Bonds, at least he proved he could hit the ball as recently as Spring Training.
Or is this just a man-crush thing on Bonds, and nobody BUT Bonds will do?
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 8, 2008 1:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
just wait
Wait until barton gets back, and we’ll be fine.
There is to much risk in players like bonds and juan gonzalez.
by cardsrule15 on Aug 8, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree.....
Between Barton and Ankiel, we’ll be fine. Bonds is a risk we do not need.
If our pen saves 2 more games that they blew, we are leading for the wild card. If they saved 5 of those games, we’d have one of the best records in baseball, and we’d lead the NL.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 8, 2008 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm interested in what the risks
are of signing Barry Bonds.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't quite understand the risks of players like juan gone and bonds?
That they are crappy, and we drop them? Oh, keep me away from the knuckle whitening roller coaster!
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Aug 8, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats just it.....
With the time left in the season, if we signed them, they’d be here to stay, NO MATTER WHAT.
Some risks: That they aren’t any better than what we have, that they disrupt chemistry (which is the biggest thing the Cardinals have going for them), that he doesn’t improve the team much this year, but takes AB’s away from guys that WILL be around next year, etc
The list could go on and on. If you want to make the argument that teams should have signed him much earlier, then some of my “points” don’t apply. But I’ll say it again, I don’t believe it to be collusion that is keeping Bonds out of MLB. It’s his attitude, his history, his selfishness, and a host of other negatives.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 8, 2008 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I Agree...
And we’re not exactly guaranteed a healthy bonds.
by cardsrule15 on Aug 8, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The roster expands in 3 weeks
if they were here to stay, like crappy players such as Felipe Lopez, then they can be buried on the bench.
Chemistry isn’t the biggest thing the Cardinals have going for them. Albert Pujols, the surliest of grown me, is the biggest thing they have going for them.
The taking away ABs argument doesn’t hold because we’ve already got guys like Izturis, Kennedy, Lopez taking ABs away from guys we need to see if they can play next year. We’ve got Izzy taking innings away from guys who we need to see what we have in next year.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what pitchers
if we have a pitcher inthe bullpen besides k-mac who can hold a lead please tell me.
by cardsrule15 on Aug 8, 2008 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why continue to trot Izzy out there
and not see what we have in Motte? In Worrell? In Salas? etc.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
i don’t really want us testing out pitchers 115 games into the season.
I’m not saying i like izzy i’m just saying we need someone who is proven reliable.
by cardsrule15 on Aug 8, 2008 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does someone get proven reliable
if you never use them?
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're right i guess
we had our chance at the deadline and didn’t make a move for one.
by cardsrule15 on Aug 8, 2008 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't have anybody who's "proven reliable"
Izzy is “proven unreliable” if you ask me. That’s worse than figuring out what we’ve got in the rooks.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 9, 2008 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I'll make this point to.....
You don’t risk disrupting an offense that has scored the 3rd most runs in the NL (only 5 behind 2nd place Philly).
Offense and defense have been fine. Pitching needs help. Hopefully with Carp back, getting Waino back, and Perez getting some chances, that’ll straighten itself out.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 8, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Couldn't you say the same thing
about the team in 2004…before they acquired Larry Walker?
by Red in Chicago on Aug 8, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The White Sox this year were the 2nd best offensive
team in the AL a week ago and they picked up Ken Griffey Jr.
I don’t see how replacing someone on the bench (Stavinoha) or in the lineup (Skippy vs LHP, Mather vs RHP, Lopez all-the-time) with a guy that had an OPS of over 1.000 last year is ‘disrupting the offense’.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the offense was inconsistent
is that what Tony likes to say?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 8, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how can you say "they aren’t any better than what we have"?
just the presence of Bonds in the lineup makes the team better because managers will either a) pitch around him and go after pujols .333/.424/.620 or b) pitch to him and he can put those .298/.444/.602 career numbers to use.
if you can look yourself in the mirror and say you would rather have skippy swing the bat over barry bonds then i pity you.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 8, 2008 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They primarily revolve
around Mo getting excluded from dinner parties at the winter trade meetings. That, and a truckload of nasty letters to the editor overturning on the way to the Post-Dispatch offices…
by Red in Chicago on Aug 8, 2008 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly...
If our bullpen, who has blown 27 saves and has lost 11 of those games, gave up the league average which is 5 we would be:
70-47
Not only leading the wild card but tied for the NL Central lead.
by cardsrule15 on Aug 8, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ifs and buts
Some people (not saying it is you) think that if our offense was able to score more runs, then the bullpen wouldn’t have a chance to blow the lead. So having Bonds (who would probably give the offense a big boost) wouldn’t be good idea because the bullpen is the problem?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 8, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i haven't had a chance to read any of the comments
(i’m running short on time today) but i just wanted to say re:bonds…there is no way he is ready to play. i just don’t believe he can come in here and be game ready from day 1 at this point. i figure it’d take him at least 10 days to get in the flow of things again and probably another 2 weeks to find his stroke. not to mention the media would swarm over this clubhouse. you say replacing ryan with lopez is a lateral move because the increase in offense is negated by his poor defense…well the increase in offense from bonds is far negated by the media circus that will ensue (plus, bonds isn’t exactly a great defender anymore).
by lopey986 on Aug 8, 2008 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Any word on lineups?
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Aug 8, 2008 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bernie says that it is a last minute decision
Ankiel is trying to show the trainers he can play, Tony has two lineup made out. One with him in it, One with Felipe Lopez batting 3rd and playing 1B.
Ooops, sorry.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just posted:
With Ankiel:Mather
Ankiel
Pujols
Ludwick
Glaus
Molina
Izturis
Looper
KennedyWithout Ankiel:
Mather
Kennedy
Pujols
Ludwick
Glaus
Molina
Izturis
Looper
SchumakerShould know in 10 minutes or so if you want to check back….
-B
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Aug 8, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
$10
says Ankiel plays. Tony always takes the player’s word.
by Red in Chicago on Aug 8, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lineup looks a lot better
with him in it.
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Aug 8, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Especially since the first 5 battesr
have a real chance of taking you deep.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huzzah!
For small miracles and minor victories. No Lopez in the OF.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that sounds like the sequel to
Angels in the Outfield
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Aug 8, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
man...
mather, ankiel, pujols, ludwick, glaus, molina…i like it. now if we could fix 7 and 9…
by launchshuttle on Aug 8, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 8, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only got the joke because of the last Illinois gubernatorial election. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
by liam on Aug 8, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
same here
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 8, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rick is out
and FSN is reporting that Lopez is batting 7th and playing SS.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 8, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus or minus on 3 errors?
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Aug 8, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs