thursday miscellany
by lboros on Aug 7, 2008 8:39 AM EDT
332 comments
ahhhhhh . . . . . relief. joe strauss described la russa as "ecstatic" over chris perez’s performance last night. reyes perez became the 7th cardinal pitcher to record a save this year; you never know, he might be the only going forward. la russa --- like most managers --- rarely uses a rookie in the closer’s role, but as we saw in 2006 he will break that rule when circumstances warrant. and they clearly do warrant --- any pitcher, rookie or no, who restores order to the 9th inning is going to keep getting the opportunities.
i’m hoping perez will be that guy ---- even if he has his ups and downs, which he probably will. don’t forget, 10 of the first 100 batters to face him in the big leagues got extra-base hits off the kid, and just two weeks ago, he blew a 5-run 9th-inning lead at memphis. he still loses the strike zone periodically, and he may be prone to the longball. . . . . . but so what. he has more ability than the diminished isringhausen, and more than franklin ever possessed. he gives the team its best shot to hold a late lead, ergo he should get the opportunities --- even if he occasionally blows one, as he almost certainly will. and he upholds the build-from-within philosophy the cardinals are trying to instill. is he as sure a bet as brian fuentes would have been? no, not quite; he’s a riskier bet. but there’s a decent chance that he’ll be as good as fuentes would have been, and an excellent chance that he’ll be nearly as good. the difference between fuentes and him clearly isn’t worth the price in talent the rockies were demanding. . . .
if you’re wondering, the franchise record for saves by a first-year player is 9, set by john littlefield in 1980. i say "first-year player" rather than "rookie" because todd worrell still qualified as a rookie when he saved 36 games in 1986. but in 1985, the year he first reached the majors, worrell only picked up 5 saves, plus another 1 or 2 in the playoffs. . . . . if perez breaks that record (and yeah, i’m getting way ahead of myself), the cardinals stand a great chance to go to the playoffs.
[update] the post is reporting this a.m. that wainwright's rehab will prep him to pitch as a reliever when he returns, but i think he's a fallback. mozeliak hints that there might be another solution for the 9th inning (ie perez) by the time wainwright is ready to return . . . . [end update]
you might have read in the RFT (or seen it on WGN) where wilco sang "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" last weekend from the press box at wrigley --- clad in cubs jerseys, no less. in the ensuing interview, jeff tweedy admitted that, yeah, he grew up down in belleville across the river from . . . . er, uh, you know, st. louis . . . . as a cardinal fan. i'm told that a couple nights later, a cardinal employee showed up at the wilco gig in indianapolis with a birds-on-bat jersey personalized for tweedy (#1 on the back), a baseball with a personal inscription from TLR, and a bunch of swag for tweedy's kids. star-spangled banner at the all-star game next year, fellahs? . . . .
other matters:
- did pineiro save his spot in the rotation last night? well, he gave up 5 extra-base hits in 7 innings, including 2 to angel berroa, a player who is slugging under .300. . . . it was the 3rd consecutive start in which he’s yielded at least 5 extra-base hits. pineiro has now made 19 starts; batters slugged .423 against him in the first 10 (ie, through june 17) but.574 in the last 9. the corresponding eras are 4.02 and 6.09. . . . . the cards will still need a 5th starter for another couple of turns, and i don’t know that they have anybody better than pineiro to turn to; well, jaime garcia might be a better option, but it seems as if they’re committed to using him out of the pen. beginning on august 17 the team will only need a #5 starter 4 more times over the rest of the schedule. wainwright will probably be back by then; doesn’t it make sense to close out the sched with a 4-man rotation of carpenter / wainwright / lohse / wellemeyer? that is being discussed by the decision-makers; i don’t know what’s left to discuss. just do it, guys.
- inside stl had an interview with #1 draftee brett wallace recently, if'n you haven't seen it.
- jason bay has a .423 / .500 / .692 line in 6 games since the trade deadline, with a homer and 6 rbis; manny ramirez, in 5 games, is hitting .600 and slugging 1.100, with 3 dingers and 7 rbis. ryan ludwick in the same span: .500 batting average, 1.500 slugging with 6 homers, including a walkoff. just sayin’ . . . .
- ludwick and pujols currently rank 1-2 in nl slugging, by the way.
- as a team, they now rank 3d in the league in scoring --- first time all season they have ranked that high. they’re on pace to score 777 runs, which would be an increase of 52 runs over last year.
- here’s something you’ll never believe: cardinal second basemen, as a group, are batting .300 on the year ---- that’s #1 among national league teams. but they are near the bottom in both walks and isolated power, which drops them to the middle of the pack in ops, at .721. that’s still a vast improvement over last year, when st louis 2bmen ranked 14th in the league. you could say the same for the catchers, who were dead last in 2007 but are 7th this year with a .723 ops.
- st louis outfielders, as a group, are the best in the league with an .862 aggregate ops. they rank first in homers, 2nd in slugging and obp. their 66 homers so far this year are just 2 shy of last year’s full-season total.
- the pitchers aren’t hitting quite as well this year; they ranked first in cumulative ops in both 2006 and 2007 but are only second this year, behind the cubs.
sorry, gotta keep it short this morning. game thread will be up at about noon.
0 recs |
332 comments
Email
Print
Comments
Was this a Freudian slip?
“reyes became the 7th cardinal pitcher to record a save this year; you never know, he might be the only going forward.”
Just checking…..
by goodymobb on Aug 7, 2008 8:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I was gonna check the same thing
Gave me a mini-laugh for reasons I’m not sure are even clear to myself.
by mojowo11 on Aug 7, 2008 8:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of ARey...
I didn’t see on here this weekend (though I seldom read the weekend threads) but Anthony had a stellar outing for Cleveland’s AAA club Saturday.
8IP – 1ER, 5H, 0BB, 4K
I’m still rooting for him to become a legitimate #2 or 3 in the bigs. Probably because it would affirm and opinion that myself and others around here hang on to that he was screwed by this org.
by cardzfanbub on Aug 7, 2008 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
.....I hope not......
I like him and all but I dont want another Haren around baseball…........
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 7, 2008 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This would be a bit different that Haren...
in some ways worse. At least Mulder had been one of the best pitchers in the league before the trade, ARey went out for an older AA player. Of course we weren’t likely to be able to keep ARey after next spring (no options, and probably no place on the roster) and he had pretty well lost ALL value in a trade. I don’t think he’ll ever be as good as Haren, but I do hope he has a long successful career.
by cardzfanbub on Aug 7, 2008 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree it would be worse...
But I really hope he is not a #2 or #3 starter…...... I am rooting for him to be a #4 or #5 starter and if he does that I will be happy for him, just dont do any better than that!
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 7, 2008 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reyes
called up last night after the Indians game. Looks like he’ll jump right into the rotation.
I'd rather my sister be a prostitute than my brother a Cub fan.
by _pistol_ on Aug 7, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This will be interesting.
I can’t wait to see what he does being Duncan free now. Will he let it rip and finally become the pitcher we all hoped he would?
by KYCards on Aug 7, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are they still going to use Wainwright in relief? I hope they change directions again and put him back in the rotation. I don’t like this bullpen talk.
by azruavatar on Aug 7, 2008 8:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sigh
I can’t sigh loud enough to fully expressed my exasperation at this silly decision.
by mojowo11 on Aug 7, 2008 8:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i missed the article ---- updated my post
i agree w/ you guys, using wainwright in relief seems like a bad use of resources. i’d rather seem them take their chances w/ perez and mcclellan and live w/ the consequences, good or bad.
by lboros on Aug 7, 2008 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They haven't made a decision
No matter what the PD says. Remember, this time last week they were saying, for no good reason at all, that Jason Isringhausen was now “the closer” again. He’d done nothing to show that he’d improved enough to warrant that spot; he almost immediately reverted to bad form. And now he may not pitch again this season. But whatever—he was “the closer.”
LaRussa, Duncan, and Mo are making this whole thing up as they go along.
by Dr Tom More on Aug 7, 2008 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You say that like it's a BAD thing.
They should be making it up as they go. Changing circumstances result in changing approaches, as they should.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 7, 2008 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe unclear
What I’m saying is a “bad thing” is the nonsense of annointing someone “the closer.” Since I’m one who doesn’t necessarily believe that pitching the ninth inning is necessarily any more difficult than pitching say, the sixth or seventh (or first, or third), the entire idea is suspect to me (and lots of others).
But, on a team managed by the man who essentially invented “the closer,” a mentality trickles down through the bullpen that “everyone has to have a role,” rather than just going out there and trying to get people out. See Franklin, for example, who said, after the reannointing of Isringhausen last week, something to the effect of “I knew it was always Jason’s job” (I’m too lazy to look up the exact quote).
I agree that changing circumstaces should result in changing approaches—which means that they shouldn’t be talking about Wainwright coming back as a reliever when they don’t have all the data necessary to make that kind of a decision, based on the circumstances. It’s arbitrary.
by Dr Tom More on Aug 7, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
I’ve heard a lot of people also say that pitchers like having a certain role.
by saladdays on Aug 7, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Their role
is to get people out. Whenever the ball is in their hands. Anything else is something they shouldn’t be worried about.
by Dr Tom More on Aug 7, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perhaps if Perez has a good week...
or two they can put this to rest. I can see why the team would consider this, as there’ no doubt with a better bullpen we’d have 5-10 more wins (see 20+ blown saves).
by cardzfanbub on Aug 7, 2008 9:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm hoping the same
Maybe Perez will come in and be solid for a week or two as the closer and let Waino shift back to the rotation. A.D.A.M. needs to be pitching in the rotation down the stretch run.
by mojowo11 on Aug 7, 2008 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly ...
our only shot to get to the playoffs (and win when we get there) is for Carp, Wainwright, and Lohse to basically win most of their remaining starts and then win in the playoffs. Putting Wainwright in the bullpen is shortsighted. Even if he provides clarity to the closer’s role, we are much more likely to be in a position to lose more games with Piniero starting and much more likely to miss the playoffs entirely.
Wainwright is a top flight starter in this league. The team should not screw with that.
by Egyptian on Aug 7, 2008 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you guys are right about him being a starter
but maybe since they are putting him on the “fast-track” to get him back pitching again, they are putting him into a situation where he won’t have to work as much. which begs the question, why not let him heal all the way before letting him pitch?
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 7, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perez had 5 outs on 21 pitches
Gotta like that. Given TLR’s comments last nigth, maybe they’d put Wainer back in the rotation.
And they, maybe Wainwright in the pen is just to warm him up. HE’ll get 3 appearances then move to the rotation.
Youneverknow.
by sdrone on Aug 7, 2008 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can live with either use of Wagonmaker,
as long as it is a solution to a real problem, and not stubbornness. IOW, if another guy (Perez) nails down the closer duties I want to see TLR be flexible enough to move Adam back to the rotation.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 7, 2008 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The meeting
My guess is that Mo, TLR, and Dunc decided to call up Perez for a tryout at closer while preparing Wainwright for the role in case Perez can’t handle it. If Perez steps up during his opportunity, he’s the closer and Wainwright returns to the rotation. If he doesn’t, they’ll install Wainwright.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That’s how I read it, too. Keep on keepin’ on, Perez!
by liam on Aug 7, 2008 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not as many
More wins as you’d think.
If the Cards were league-average at blowing saves, they’d have four more wins. They’re 11-14 in games where they blew the save, with two games having multiple saves blown. League average would be seven less blown, but the Cards would have been 3-7 in them, based on their win percentage so far.
Still substantial in this race, but not ridiculous like people think.
by whopperman on Aug 7, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perez or bust!!!!!!!!
Wain would make our Bullpen much much better but at what cost? He is much more valuable as a starter. I would be ecstatic to have a rotation of Carp, Wain, Lohse in the playoffs! without him our rotation is much weaker. Please dont put him in the bullpen!!!
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 7, 2008 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't Wainwright going to just get more important
With him possibly taking the ball every 4 days instead of 5 days down the stretch. I am still for the idea to put Joel on waivers and just let him float away
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 7, 2008 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
the idea of a 4-man rotation increases Wainwright’s value in it and makes it an even bigger waste of resources to have him in the pen. I realize the pen has problems but if Perez can steady the pen a little - he doesn’t have to be lights out every time, that would be unreasonable. But w/ Perez, McClellan, and Springer - that’s a pertty good top 3. It’s not the Nasty Boys, but it’s not bad either. Villone and Garcia from the left side, plus Franklin in long relief. 1 steady guy at the back end + an extra inning out of our starters w/ Carp and Wainwright back makes that staff a LOT better, not a little better…A LOT BETTER!
by chuckb on Aug 7, 2008 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 7, 2008 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Wainwright
comes back will he need to strengthen his arm ala Carpenter. For instance, if Adam can only go 60 pitches in his first start, 70 in his second, and another limited pitch count in his third start wont this compromise an already over utilized and under staffed bullpen? Im not sure where I stand so dont jump on me just yet.
by njnick on Aug 7, 2008 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didnt have Arm or Elbow Surgery
I don’t see that he has to build up that much strength
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 7, 2008 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
but he hasnt pitched a real game since June 7th. Wont that inactivity cause him to have to strengthen his arm?
by njnick on Aug 7, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's been throwing fastballs for a while now
His arm strength isn’t a concern, as he’s been throwing extended sessions of fastballs for quite a while now. The breaking balls are a recent development, but his arm strength is likely at a pretty advanced stage for someone coming off a DL stint this long.
by mojowo11 on Aug 7, 2008 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He was doing arm-strengthening work
all along, even though he couldn’t throw. The articles on this weren’t specific, but I’m assuming isometric exercises, weightlifting or electrical muscle stimulation were involved.
by Red in Chicago on Aug 7, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He will still be gettting norman rest.
He won’t be getting the ball every 4 days. They will use off-days to get them their normal rest.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 7, 2008 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Norman rest?
Is that like what Mulder’s getting—playing golf twice a day. :)
by Red in Chicago on Aug 7, 2008 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
'Doh!
Well, I’m attributing Viking-like qualities to Wainright.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 7, 2008 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glaus = anagram for Gauls
i made a joke yesterday about germanic tribes that segued into a running joke about teams named after geometric figures and concepts… i just wanted to say i love how nerdy/geeky the humor can get at this blog. sites like VEB also crush the stereotype that the world is divided between jocks and nerds. this is essentially sport-nerd-dom.
by mattybobo on Aug 7, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course it is
I’m 45 and live in my parents’ basement, don’t you?
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 7, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your parents have a basement?
Lucky dog!
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 7, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not anymore
Parents kicked me out so now I’m living in my car. I’m in the parking lot of a hotel just to steal their Wi-Fi to get on VEB. So sad. On the bright side it’s a Holiday Inn and they have a link to free gameday audio on the home page. Maybe I’ll stick around for the game if they don’t call the law first.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Aug 7, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am challenging the whole jocks and nerds concept!
because there is such a thing as a nerdy jock and I am one of them!!!!
I am a guy who can deadlift 330lbs and then go watch Lord of the Rings! or Star Wars!!!!
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 7, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
see, yet another example
a person who is not especially jocky (like me—though i was a kickass pingpong player in college) can be totally geeky about sports, allegedly the territory of jocks. further, a person who is an athlete can be a total nerd, like brian barton.
by mattybobo on Aug 7, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Being a great pingpong player is the farthest thing from being a jock lol…....
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 7, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh. well that's about all i got!
it’s tough to find a level playing field when genetics dooms you to top out at about 5’6”, 140 lbs. does dance dance revolution count? cause i’m pretty good at that. oh, and wii sports baseball.
by mattybobo on Aug 7, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
jocks and nerds
that’s one reason why I’m a metalhead: you have to be both smart and athletic to play a lot of that stuff (especially the drummers and guitarists)
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 7, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
up the irons
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Aug 7, 2008 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
defying stereotypes is one of my favorite things to do
as a blonde/sorority girl/volleyball player/engineer who probably knows more about sports than most guys in my office, i LOVE the reactions i get when people ask me what i do for a living and i can throw out there that i am a mechanical engineer or when i spout out some random baseball statistic in normal conversation. soooo much fun. here’s to nerd-jocks! :)
by launchshuttle on Aug 7, 2008 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not to stereotype
but baseball is a sport that tends to attract the more, shall we say, intellectual crowd?
by cardgirl on Aug 7, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gauls
Way OT but … Gauls weren’t german. The roman term “gauls” referred to a people of gaelic descent (scots / irish). At one time they controlled much of modern day France and northern Italy. For a modern day version of what the Romans called a Gaul, look at Mario Batali (Italian dude who looks like he just got off the boat from Ireland).
http://cache.gawker.com/assets/resources/2006/08/moltomolto.jpg
by jjray on Aug 7, 2008 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe Germans would have been Goths, correct?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 7, 2008 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, don't worry, i'm aware
i was just thinking of other ancient peoples. what’s the difference celts and gauls again? i’m always fuzzy on that.
by mattybobo on Aug 7, 2008 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
someone might want to correct me on this if I'm wrong
Just did a little research. Gaul was the name given by the romans to a region. Basically the west side of Europe (Spain, France, northern Italy, and Britain) and Gauls were any barbarian from that area. The Celts were a specific tribe located on the British isles. The Romans liked to lump large groups together. Especially when they weren’t civilized people (Romans Greeks)
New Member of the Skip Schumaker Fan Club
by cyko42 on Aug 7, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You have it backwards
Celts are a linguistic/cultural designation, Gauls were a subgroup that lived in France until the Romans kicked their tails, and later the Germans swept through, setting off a tradition of French surrender that lasts to today. Joking, joking…
by liam on Aug 7, 2008 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sacre bleu!!
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 7, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Charlemagne, Louis IX, Cardinal Richileiu, Louis XIV and Napoleon beg to differ...
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Aug 7, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
richilieu
i will always think of him as being as badass as he was in the three muskateers novels.
by mattybobo on Aug 7, 2008 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Scarlet Pimpernel kicked the crap out of the French!
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 7, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
add in marechal foch and geoffrey joffre as well
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Aug 7, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Napoleon was a Corsican or something
but all the rest of those dudes were Franks, which is a Germanic tribe. The Celts were Indo-Europeans spread from modern day Turkey all the way to Spain. Celts were fair-haired people who were very tall, had long hair encrusted with lime and liked to go into battle naked. Think Dirk Novitski with a bronze sword.
The Franks displaced/assimilated the Gaulish Celts. The Gauls never surrendered and one of the reasons they disappeared from large parts of western Europe was because Marius and Julius Ceasar annihilated 100,000s of them and sold many of the rest into slavery.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Aug 7, 2008 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
upon further review
you are correct. I’ll just go with the Roman way, There all Barbarians and only fit to fight our wars for us…......
New Member of the Skip Schumaker Fan Club
by cyko42 on Aug 7, 2008 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in today's nerd spirit
I offer this
1.) The Gaels are a different subset of Celt than the Gauls. Calling a Gaul Gaelic because both groups are Celtic is like calling an Englishman Italian because both are European.2.) Though in early classical times Italy north of the Po was known as “Cisalpine Gaul,” modern northern Italians probably owe more genetically to Germanic peoples such as the Ostrogoths and Lombards who arrived there subsequently than to the ancient Celtic inhabitants.
3.) To hell w/ Mario Batali. I’d rather talk about Jason Simontacchi! Last I heard he was pitching for Dave “Snacks” LaPoint w/ the Long Island Ducks, but I’ve lost track of him this year. Anyone know if he’s hung them up?
by random on Aug 7, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotta watch those parens
meant to say Gaels & Gauls to Celts as Italians and Spaniards are to Europeans. I think liam said what REALLY needed to be said, though :-D
by random on Aug 7, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus either Looper or Pinata
in there as well.
by Red in Chicago on Aug 7, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which is the case?
If Waino goes into the rotation, who is the odd man out? Pineiro, right? But he’s not really bullpen stuff, is he?
So if you want to improve the bull pen, your options are ADAM or Looper. So I think this is the relevant question:
Do you get a greater marginal improvement by starting ADAM over Jo-el, or by closing with ADAM rather than Looper?
If Perez works out, you could kick Looper into the bullpen as our 8th inning guy. That was his original purpose after all. This is probably my preference. The problem is that I think having Wainwright as the closer probably gives us our best chance of making the playoffs, but not our best chance of winning once we’re in the playoffs.
So it’s a legitimate problem for me.
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on Aug 7, 2008 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i still really don't like waino in relief
he is too valuable to the starting rotation and he seems like a waste in the bullpen
however i guess this depends really on how perez does
by cardsrule15 on Aug 7, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't forget
although wainwright got saves he was at times shaky
by cardsrule15 on Aug 7, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Welley?
Welley has prototypical closer stuff (95+ and a plus slider). Also, he’s building toward a workload that’s unprecedented in his professional career and I’m a little concerned about his arm. I think if you have to bump someone into the pen to close, it’s Welley. That said, I’d rather keep him in the rotation and I’d only do that if the Perez experiment fails and we find ourselves without a closer. I wouldn’t bump Welley to have him pitching middle relief.
by mojowo11 on Aug 7, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Springer, KMac, the Colonel, and Perez
for 7th, 8th, 9th inning. All of a sudden, I’m liking our bullpen
Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2
by gocards62 on Aug 7, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After just one game...
I’m not ready to either breathe a sigh of relief(no pun intended) or knight Perez as the second coming of Mariano Rivera. The bullpen is still a steaming pile of cow dung, and nothing short of a miracle is going to solve the problem.
by cardsrul on Aug 7, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perez =/= Mariano
He doesn’t need to be Mariano. He just needs to convert some saves. He doesn’t need to be perfect. He doesn’t need to be elite. We just need someone passable so that we don’t have to keep running Izzy/Franklin out there, who together seemingly can’t hold even a 3-4 run lead in the 9th.
by mojowo11 on Aug 7, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I take it you didn't see this article in the Post this morning.
Looks like Wainwright is gonna be the closer.
And this is a huge mistake. Taking a talented young starter and sticking him back in the closers role is a mis-allocation of resources. Wainwright was shaky in the reliever role back in 2006.
I would much rather see this team go down in flames testing the metal of young players like Perez, Motte and Worrell than messing with the young top of the rotation starter they just signed to a long term deal.
by JMedwick on Aug 7, 2008 8:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I should be more specific here.
Shaky as the closer in the post season. He was darn good as a righty reliever for much of the season.
by JMedwick on Aug 7, 2008 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are you talking about?
Wainwright was a good closer in the 06 post season….........
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 7, 2008 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Not sure what he’s talking about there
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 7, 2008 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know
I was thinking to myself did he even watch the 06 playoffs?????/
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 7, 2008 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if izzy had loaded the bases in the 9th vs the mets
in game 7, the way that wainwright did, people would have screamed bloody murder. likewise, in game 5 of the w.s. vs the tigers, he allowed the tying run to come to the plate in the 9th.
he converted all his save opportunities, but he was far from unhittable. he was a lot like izzy — a lot of nail-biter saves.
by lboros on Aug 7, 2008 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares?
He got every save and that is all that matters.
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 7, 2008 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jmedwick descrbed wainwright as "shaky"
as the closer in 2006, and i think that adjective was fair — adam was shaky. yes he got the saves, but he was vulnerable as the closer.
by lboros on Aug 7, 2008 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not to be nitpicky
Wainwright was shaky as the closer, good shaky though.
As for JMedwicks statement that he was “shaky in the reliever role” -you can argue he was shaky as the closer, but wasn’t he just nails in the coffin great in the set-up role? At least that is how I remember him being, He started out as the 7th inning guy, right? He seemed to be lights out in that role and it carried on into the set-up role. I might be remembering incorrectly, it would not be the first time.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 7, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he did blow 1 save
by giving up a sac fly to the first batter he faced. I forget which series it was in but I think the Cards ended up winning the game anyway. I’m sure he did blow 1 save in the postseason, though—or was credited w/ a blown save when the reliever who let the guy get to third probably should have been.
by chuckb on Aug 7, 2008 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While I would rather have Adam as a starter
we do have to remember he was basically a rookie during the 06 playoffs. He is a much more seasoned pitcher now, so he might not be as “shakey” as he was for some of those October games. He should be more comfortable now as compaired to then…
by KYCards on Aug 7, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he'd be shaky at all
out of the pen or for 7 or 8 innings starting the game. Perez might be a little shaky but he’ll convert more than Izzy or Franklin and, I think, we’ll be just fine—provided the fan base can stomach his blowing a couple down the stretch. If they’re hoping for perfection, they won’t get it.
by chuckb on Aug 7, 2008 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’m hoping for perfection. I’ll take “good.” D.GOOCH
-- GOOCH
by GOOCH24 on Aug 7, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still watch NLCS Game 7 all the time
Sometimes just the highlights but it always brings back the memories of me curled in a ball of fear. With my rosemary clutched in my fist praying to god we can somehow get out of this.
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 7, 2008 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rosemary or rosary?
I can’t tell if that’s a typo or just plain pagan . ..
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on Aug 7, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe his girlfriend's name is Rosemary.
and he will be clutching her.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 7, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is Abbot and Costello stuff
very funny guys :)
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Aug 7, 2008 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed; the emotions of that moment make it the best of the post-season, in my opinion
as great as the yadi homerun was, it came seeming out of nowhere, and was just a wonderful surprise. wagonmaker’s k to end the game after loading the bases, sending us that instant, in game seven, from possibly losing the whole thing on a walk-off to the feared cardinal-killer beltran to the world series after being written off from the start… i’m getting all tingly thinking about it. i’ll stop though, because i’ll bet nobody in this blog wants to hear about me feeling tingly…
by mattybobo on Aug 7, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
all of this is kind of ironic (maybe? hope i'm using ironic correctly)
because of course it depends on the fact that wainwright wasn’t exactly lights out. i think the moment was better because of the risk.
by mattybobo on Aug 7, 2008 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember that moment...
I was watching the game at my college house in the basement on the 90” projector screen with about 10 friends. I just couldn’t want to hear how it ended, and I knew that the digital cable was a few seconds behind, so I grabbed my tiny radio and listened in the back of the room. I heard the third called strike, and then I ran forward to watch it on the screen. It was neat because I got to listen to Shannon’s call, and I got to see it real-time on TV. What an amazing moment in Cardinals history. I remember Izzy joking after the game that he showed Wainwright how to make it that dramatic.
"I have CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order. Like they should be."
by BigMOman on Aug 7, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was over
When Rolen somehow drove a ball hard only to get robbed by Endy Chavez. I was fully prepared for that to be a major “if only” moment in Cardinals history.
I don’t think I could ever get mad at Yadi after that homerun…
by Yellow Dog on Aug 7, 2008 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mettle*
[/grammar nazi]
Though I kind of liked something about the ideal of testing someone’s metal. Makes them sound like robots.
by mojowo11 on Aug 7, 2008 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well you could test Luddy's
metal, ‘cause he’s got some pins and screws in his body.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 7, 2008 9:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I of course thought that
testing one’s metal was to see how metal they are (as in heavy metal)
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 7, 2008 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, it's just positioning to take pressure off Perez
It’s not as rock solid as the headline. Read this:
“It’s not set. There’s a chance before he comes back that we have a solution and it’s not a need. Then he’ll come back as a starter. We want to be prepared. Right now, everything is on the table.”
In other words, if Perez does the job then Adam’s a starter. This is a smart way to do it, imo. Takes pressure off Perez to save the season. And if Perez does implode, don’t you want WW over Iz or Frank?
I think this is perfect. What’s the problem?
by meat on Aug 7, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are the chance WW...
pitches in Springfield next week? Anybody have any idea? I’d like to try to make it to see him.
by cardzfanbub on Aug 7, 2008 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i doubt any
i would love to go see it too but he is supposed to be at memphis friday so it is unlikely that he will go backwards.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking the same...
hoping maybe Memphis had a road trip the Cards wouldn’t want to send WW out on. While Memphis will be playing New Orleans and Round Rock (Texas) next week, it will (unfortunately for me) be at Memphis.
by cardzfanbub on Aug 7, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really good article on Albert being underrated...
by nmstar on Aug 7, 2008 9:01 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Link
http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/08/06/albert-the-underrated/
for those as lazy as I am
by djsmokyc on Aug 7, 2008 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't necessarily disagree with the results
1. Pitching wins. Period. So I’d expect great young pitchers to be higher than Albert.
2. Albert is a first baseman. There are quite a few power hitting first basemen POwer hitting shortstops and 2nd basemen are rare these days.
by sdrone on Aug 7, 2008 9:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Power-hitting 2B and SS
Not quite so rare as they used to be
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 7, 2008 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but
Albert doesn’t necessarily have to play 1B
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 7, 2008 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What hurts Albert is that he plays for a team that the media ignores.
If Albert played for either of the New York teams, Boston or even the Cubs he would be right there with Michael Jordan as one of the most popular and legendary sports figures of the modern era. If Al was with the Yankees they would be calling the new Yankee stadium “The house that Albert built.”
I just thank God he is with us.
by KYCards on Aug 7, 2008 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Same with Musial
He’s vastly underrated and is probably the greatest living baseball player on earth.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
Mays? Aaron? I mean, I love Stan Musial, but I never heard of him having anything but a noodle arm (after his injury when he was a pitcher) or being anything notable defensively. And I doubt his batting quite stacks up to those guys, either.
Jesus, I’m not knocking Musial. I fervently hope he is healthy enough to be part of the all-star festivities a year from now and to receive the tribute he richly deserves.
by Youneverknow on Aug 7, 2008 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OPS+
Musial 159
Mays 156
Aaron 155
Because of defense i would put Mays just ahead of Musial but it was closer than you thought, huh? Plus Musial missed a year due to the war and he hit .345/.440/.549 the year before and .365/.434/.567 the year after. Mays also missed a year early in his career before he became the GREAT player he was.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are right.
It is closer than I thought. And there are places Musial definitely has the edge. Stan the Man.
by Youneverknow on Aug 7, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Musial was a better hitter
Musial career line: .331/ .417/ .559/ 3,630 hits/ 475 HR
Mays career line: .302/ .384/ .557/ 3283 hits/ 660 HR
Aaron career line: .305/ .374/ .555/ 3,771 hits/ 755 HR
Musial missed a year because of WW II and would have hit over 500 homers but for that.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well
I saw Mays, Aaron and Musial play many times. Musial was better by far. Nobody in the 50’s considered either Mays or Aaron in the class of Musial and NO, Musial never had a “noodle for an arm. Don’t know where you heard such shit. Musial was an all around great ballplayer defensively and offensively though not on par defensively with Mays, naturally but otherwise superior. Even today, Mays or Aaron would laugh at their comparison..they are both that kind honest good people.
by ridgesee on Aug 7, 2008 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While we're on Musial
Why don’t the Cardinals sell throwback Musial jersey t-shirts in off-white? I can get any Yankee great I want at the Stadium, but St. Louis Fan Store doesn’t even have Ozzie, Gibson, Sutter, Dean, or Musial jersey t-shirts. This must change.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
billion
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would kill to have a Gibson or Musial jersey
Does anyone know anything about memorabilia prices?
Because I know a store that has a little stand with a musial baseball card and signed ball for 75 bucks and I was wondering if that was overpriced?
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 7, 2008 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
throwbacks
are generally more expensive than their current counterparts. check ebay … you can get some good deals there. I got a throwback ozzie jersey for less than $100 … it still had its price tag of $300 attached.
by jeff_abs on Aug 7, 2008 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those are probably fake
You have to be very careful with autographs.
by sdrone on Aug 7, 2008 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Official Site has some stuff:
http://shop.mlb.com/category/index.jsp?categoryId=1452905&cp=1452367
It might be a good basis for autograph prices.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great read
Thanks for that.
Also did you see the poll on the main site: http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/
Greatest living pitcher:Top 5:
- Pedro Martinez (21%, 725 Votes)
- Greg Maddux (21%, 706 Votes)
- Sandy Koufax (16%, 552 Votes)
- Bob Gibson (15%, 496 Votes)
- Roger Clemens (9%, 301 Votes)
Someone needs to help me bump up Gibby
by StLHugo on Aug 7, 2008 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pedro at #1??
Pedro was good…but he aint no Gibson or even Maddux. Me thinks alot of East Coast voters in that poll.
by KYCards on Aug 7, 2008 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Pedro “was” good is even more important, he was good for a few seasons, the best in baseball at the time but he has since been very injured and just doesn’t have what it takes anymore to be an Ace.
by StLHugo on Aug 7, 2008 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he has the greatest ERA+ in history
actually it is second now that Mo Rivera passed the 1000 inn threshold…but Pedro (157) blows away all other starting pitchers inlcuding Lefty (148), Big Train (147), Rocket (143), Unit (137), and Maddux (132)
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
especially if you consider Pedro's numbers
in relation to the rest of the league. He was a dominating pitcher during a hitters’ era.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Aug 7, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep. Pedro's the man
He spent a good portion of his career on crappy teams too…..
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Aug 7, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
me thinks you have some midwest bias...
Maddux is and was great and i could listen to that argument for being the best ever. but Gibby can’t really compare to Pedro unless you just talk about counting stats and even then i would take pedro.
pedro ‘00 > gibby ‘68
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
304.7 IP, 28 CG, 13 shutouts
Plus, Gibson allowed 49 runs total, five more than Pedro in nearly 100 more IP. If you want to use the subjective ER totals, Gibby allowed 4 fewer. Pedro allowed 17 homers, Gibson 10. I’m sorry, but when a guy throws 21 more complete games, 93 more innings, and allows fewer earned runs and fewer home runs, on top of having nearly twice as many shutouts (13 for Gibson to Pedro’s 7), it is mind-boggling. Pedro’s 2000 was great, but it take a backseat to Gibson’s 1968.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're comparing across generations
Gibby played in a time when those kind of IP numbers weren’t mind-boggling. The only reasonable way to compare pitchers is in the context of their time, in which case I give Pedro the edge to Gibby. Slightly.
by mojowo11 on Aug 7, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
To Disregard the IP is a complete Fallacy
He pitched longer with better results. He didn’t tire as the work load increased. With the fewer IP that Pedro pitched he should of been EVEN BETTER than Gibby.
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 7, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the medical field was much more advanced in Pedro's time
Meaning a faster recovery after starts
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 7, 2008 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And did it off a higher mound that was by all accounts, easier to throw from.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 7, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, they were
But that doesn’t change the fact that, even with throwing nearly 1/3 more innings, Gibson still gave up fewer earned runs and fewer homers than Pedro did in 93 fewer IP.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
go look at the avg era in the '68
then go look at it in ‘00…that is why he gave up fewer runs…it was A LOT harder to score back then. im not trying to discount what Gibby did, it was amazing, but Petey was better that year and maybe ‘98 and ‘99 too.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and Maddux in '94
for that matter
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
Pedro was a SO much better then his peers…Gibby was better too but it was a lot closer because of the offensivelessness* in the late 60’s
*Trade marked
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, to be fair.
Pedro had a lot more sucky peers, due to the continued expansion. Players that wouldn’t have been in the big leagues to drag down stats in Gibby’s era were pitching 150 innings in Pedro’s.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 7, 2008 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you really believe that the modern athlete is "sucky"
compared to that time even with expansion? i just cant see that, maybe i am biased though…
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see what he's saying
If there were only 16 teams now, players like Adam Kennedy, Cesar Izturis, Felipe Lopez, etc. would not be on major league rosters right now, meaning better talent would be assembled per team. I’m not sure the argument holds, but I understand it.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 7, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i understand it too
i just dont believe it…i think AK or izz2 would be better then the worst players of that era…
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget Jo-El Pinata
I am just saying that more bad pitchers means a higher average ERA for the whole league. Pedro’s year was great. Maybe the greatest year ever for a pitcher. I am trying to say that it is impossible to compare statistics between the two eras. Not only did hitters change (i.e. less afraid of striking out in order to hit a few more homers), but the whole league changed. Ballparks changed dimensions.
You know what, though? That is what makes debating points like this so fun. There is no clear-cut right answer.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 7, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
baseball is more global now...
Gibby pitched against 16 teams of American players
Pedro pitched against 30 teams of Global players
by andujar on Aug 7, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While being true
That doesn’t resolve the “better than his peers” test. There were as many, or more, future HOF pitchers pitching in 2000 as there were in 1968, and Pedro was much better than those guys against the same competition and better than 3 runs better than the league average.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 7, 2008 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"There were as many, or more, future HOF pitchers pitching in 2000 as there were in 1968"
Is that an indictment of how the HOF bar has been lowered?
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 7, 2008 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I’m simply saying there were as many good pitchers then as there are now, yet Pedro was much better than his peers in 2000 than Gibson was in 1968. Using HOF pitchers was just the barometer.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 7, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maddux, Clemens, Unit,
Pedro, Glavine, Smoltz, Mo Rivera…i dont think those are lowering a bar at all…maybe raising it in fact.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Watered-down rosters
Personally, I believe that expansion has watered down the rosters and pitching staffs. There are many more AAAA pitchers in the bigs nowadays, which drags down the curve, as compared to earlier eras.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Craig Biggio? Rafael Palmeiro (before the positive test)?
There’s alot of names of guys being floated around right now that IMO wouldn’t have stood a HOF chance 50 years ago
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 7, 2008 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i disagree about biggio
he would have been a bigger star back then but the post was about HOF pitchers though.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess it was
But I was just speaking in general terms about the HOF
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 7, 2008 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Biggio was a catcher and 2bman
I can understand criticism of guys like Raffy and McGriff, but I doubt Biggio misses the hall in any era.
Not to mention that you have guys like Jim Bunning in the hall.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Aug 7, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And yet guys like Tommy John and Jim Rice are sitting on the sideline
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 7, 2008 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Bert Blyleven
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Aug 7, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Ken Boyer
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Aug 7, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Joe Jackson
Scandal or no, he was one of the best in that time frame
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 7, 2008 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow, Kenny Boyer?
really? he was good, especially his peak years, but even those werent HOF worthy i dont think…
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and well should be
unlike Blyleven, who should’ve gone in years ago.
by chuckb on Aug 8, 2008 1:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Other than Gibson's
big year, I would have to say that Koufax was the most dominating pitcher saw. People that never saw him just can’t imagine. I also had the sad privilege of seeing him “throw away his arm in his last season in the WS against Baltimore. Willie Davis ( a normally good center fielder) dropped 2 consectutive routine fly balls with 2 out in the seventh inning of a shutout that Koufax had going and he literly threw his arm away pitching out of the inning. He never pitched again. He had been taking cortizone shots the day before to pitch for several years. Koufax pitched with a lot of pain..he was amazing.
by ridgesee on Aug 7, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
Randy Johnson’s 2002 is probably not that much father behind Pedro’s 2000 (if at all) than, say one of Koufax’s seasons was behind Gibson’s 1968.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Aug 7, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ERA+
Pedro ‘00: 291
Unit ‘02: 197
it was great but not Pedro 2000 great
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but you're right re:
Koufax and Gibby
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i love gibby muchly
but i have to agree with mojo. I am not sure about this, and I know ERA is not the greatest stat, but I think Pedro had a sub-2.00 ERA one year when no other starter in the AL had an ERA under 3.00.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Aug 7, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I agree with you bgh, as I did the other day when talking about the greatest living Cardinals. There are so few players who are so dominant that they literally change the way the game is played because of you. Gibson and Kareem are the only two I can think of on that list.
All that being said, I can see how Nomar could come to that conclusion. While Gibson was dominating that season, Denny McClain, Louis Tiant, and Dave McNally were also incredibly good, 7 major league starters had an ERA under 2.00, and the league ERA was 2.99. Gibson’s season was fantastic, but not as fantastic as compared to the rest of the league that season.
Pedro in 2000 was probably as dominant as Gibson was in 1968, and you could make an argument that he was more dominant. When you consider his ERA was over 3 runs below league average, he struck out nearly as many hitters as Gibson in 100 fewer innings pitched, and his ERA+ was over 160 points higher than the next closest starting pitcher, you can see how someone could make that argument.
I would take Gibson, simply because he’s going out there and giving me 9 dominant innings nearly every single start—whereas Boston had to rely on a decent bullpen to get them to the 9th inning in all but 7 starts. Gibson also started more games than Pedro did that season. If Pedro had worked Gibby’s workload, his body probably would have broken down.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 7, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
re: broke down
i will agree with that although i think pedro could have finished more games just didnt have to but that is speculation
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's probably true
Although Gibby lost 3 or 4 games 1-0 that season as well.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 7, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pure **Speculation** on Pedro
His slight build makes me doubt whether he could throw 300 innings in a season. As do his subsequent shoulder problems. What I’m saying is that, had Pedro gone out and throw 300 innings/year for Montreal in the mid-1990’s, I don’t know that his late 1990’s/early 2000’s take place because I suspect that his shoulder injury manifests itself earlier in his career. Again, pure speculation.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
But I don’t think it’s revelant. Gibson threw lots of innings at a time when people threw lots of innings. Pedro threw less innings at a time when people threw less innings. It doesn’t make any sense to compare the two because even if he COULD have pitched 300 innings in a season, he likely never would have been asked to. So you can hardly dock him points for only throwing 200-some innings—that’s what people did.
by mojowo11 on Aug 7, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a matter of docking him points
it’s a matter of giving Gibson points for throwing more innings-it’s the same thing as crediting a player for going 20/20 with 6 HR in the eight games after the 154th of the season-the other guy didn’t get a chance to take those AB, but that doesn’t mean that the first guy didn’t do more with the extended opportunity. I don’t know if I buy the injury argument, anyway, since most of those innings are a function of a four man rotation, not of crazy managers throwing their guys out there constantly (though they did a lot of that, too)
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Aug 7, 2008 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nomar, I see your points, but
I think it has been established at this point that those who favor Bob Gibson are not merely engaging in Mid-West bias. Gibson’s numbers are objectively better. The only argument is whether they are relatively better. Certainly, it is not bias to hold a belief based upon objective facts.
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on Aug 7, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poll-stuffing stupidity
Geez…Did Jim Palmer die? What happened to Nolan Ryan? Is he dead, too?
by Red in Chicago on Aug 7, 2008 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
leaving Nolan Ryan
off of this list is an absolute crime against humanity. Seven no hitters! He played on so many bad teams, he’s probably have many more wins than either Clemens or Maddux. I get tired of hearing how Clemens is the best pitcher of the last half century. I’ll take Ryan any day over Roger.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 7, 2008 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So is Randy Johnson.
His 1993-2004 was sick, just sick. ERA+ will tell you otherwise but imho he was the most dominant, most feared pitcher in baseball for well over a decade.
by mattisnotfrench on Aug 7, 2008 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 on the Unit since he is the best Lefty IMO...
and leaving Nolan off the list is crazy of Joe but he is nowhere near the greatest living pitcher… maybe hardest throwing or most intemidating but that is it.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
think maybe that Ryans walk rate early in his career might have
been considered a bit too much in that poll? I have gotten in many arguments over the greatness of Nolan Ryan, and almost every time his walk totals were used as rebuttal.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 7, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's just unbelievable
these voters don’t even know who Bob Gibson is!!!! he is the greatest pitcher of all time!
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 7, 2008 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hwo about an st. louis cardinals all-underrated team?
pujols, hornsby, musial, etc.
by mattybobo on Aug 7, 2008 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great (and true) Pujols quote
“Some ridiculous writer wrote something about what’s wrong with me. What’s wrong with hitting .340 or .350? Am I supposed to hit .400? Is that how high I’ve (raised) these goals? I think it is real ridiculous.”
by sdrone on Aug 7, 2008 9:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
After going 4-4 with a grand slam
I really don’t think there is much wrong with Albert. At this point he has to be in the top 3 for NL MVP with Ryan Ludwick being right there with him. Unless Chase Utley or Ryan Braun catches fire in the final month…I think Albert will win his 2nd MVP this season.
by KYCards on Aug 7, 2008 9:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope you're right
Unfortunately, I fear his MVP award is dependent on our making the playoffs and bucking the “overachievers” storyline that has inexplicably followed us all season. (If anything, with our ‘pen troubles, we are underachieving.) Albert’s second MVP honor may depend on how Carp, Wainwright, and Perez throw down the stretch.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if Braun wins the MVP with those rate stats i will...
probably do nothing because i am lazy but it would be a travisty in this day and age…of course JRoll won last year
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree wholeheartedly
JRoll’s MVP is a travesty against the great game of baseball. With the same voters, they’ll probably do something equally as silly this year.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rollins only got it because of the Mets collapse.
If the Mets would have hung on Rollins would not have won. He had a great season but he got lucky off another team’s choke job.
by KYCards on Aug 7, 2008 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Writers note
home run sprees and home run droughts. It’s kinda sorta their job. I’d have to go back and read Strauss’s articles or hear his questions in the locker room to be sure, but I don’t recall him saying anything was “wrong” with Pujols. Bernie did jokingly the other day in a mocking effort to ignite Pujols, but he was obviously screwing around.
Pujols is prickly. It’s part of his charm.
by Youneverknow on Aug 7, 2008 9:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of home run sprees
How unconscious is Studwick right now? Sheesh. Seems like the guy’s got a 50/50 chance of hitting a homer every time he steps into the box.
by mojowo11 on Aug 7, 2008 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look out, Chicago
An angry, warming up Pujols is coming to down with a red hot Ludwick riding shotgun. Oh, and Chris Carpenter is back.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't that be an AWESOME poster?
Pujols riding a horse at the head of a posse including Luddy, Ank, Glaus, and Carp? There could be a small bear and a sausage fleeing for safety in front.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 7, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
made me laugh
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Aug 7, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 7, 2008 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fingers crossed
Hope Ludwick breaks our franchise record today for homers in 6 straight games!!!!!!
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 7, 2008 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ludwick, Ryan has the longest home runs in 2008 Season in these park(s): Dodger Stadium, Citizens Bank Park, Busch Stadium
http://www.hittrackeronline.com/detail.php?id=2008_294&type=hitter
He is also tied with Rick and AP in a couple parks for the longest.
Ankiel, Rick has the longest home runs in 2008 Season in these park(s): Busch Stadium
Pujols, Albert has the longest home runs in 2008 Season in these park(s): Citizens Bank Park, Busch Stadium
by StLHugo on Aug 7, 2008 9:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
When was this updated?
If you extrapolate Ludwick’s bomb last Saturday into the middle of Big Mac Land in the upper deck, I’d have to believe that one was the longest at Busch this year.
And didn’t they say on Friday that his homer earlier in the week was the longest of the season at Busch?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 7, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I thought Ludwick’s 450 footer was the longest in Busch III history
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 7, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
#1 & #2 in slugging?
Wow.
It never ceases to amaze me that a) we’ve received an enormous gift with the year Ludwick is having. If his production had come as a deadline trade or free agent signing, it would be getting much more press and b) Albert continues to put up “best player in the majors” numbers year-after-year, yet the dude was awarded only one MVP in his era. It’s criminal.
"Well, folks, this game began as a tiny worm and is blossoming into a large cobra." - Mike "The Moon Man" Shannon
by Tudor's Electric Fan on Aug 7, 2008 9:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just as a fun reminder
Remember when the press went all ape-** about Albert’s elbow before the season? He dropped in fantasy baseball drafts and everyone was talking about how the Cardinals were 4th placers “if Albert can stay on the field with that elbow that’s hanging by a thread.”
Meanwhile Albert was saying, “My elbow is fine. Nothing has changed. What are you all babbling about?”
It’s funny how the press can whip itself into a frenzy sometimes. All that talk is gone now…in fact, I haven’t heard anything of the sort mentioned all season.
I
by mojowo11 on Aug 7, 2008 9:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, to be fair, wasn't Albert saying that
after showing up at Winter Warmups unable to move his elbow much?
by sdrone on Aug 7, 2008 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think so
Albert said that he has had the problem for years and that after the 2003 season when we didn’t make the playoffs, his elbow felt great for the 2004 season because of the time off. He anticipated no problems this year after no 2007 postseason.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just shows the media is retarded
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 7, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Brewers have lucked out with their schedule this month.
I really hope we can keep on winning because we will have to to keep pace with the Brewers. I just checked out their schedule for the rest of August and they are going to be facing some of the weakest teams in the NL.
4 games against the Nationals
3 games against the Padres
6 games against the Pirates
3 games against the Astros
The only teams they face that are above .500 are
3 games against the Dodgers
2 games against us at Busch.
And us…oh we just have to go on the road to face the Cubs and the Marlins starting this weekend.
by KYCards on Aug 7, 2008 9:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That isn't lucking out
All season it’s been noted that we had an easy schedule early and the Brew Crew had an easy schedule late. They have played tough competion much better than we have this year(exluding last week against the cubs). This was bound to happen. We needed to REALLY take advantage of our early schedule or now we have to prove we can take down some tough teams in order to keep pace with the Brewers.
Not anything to do with luck. It is actually called a schedule.
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Aug 7, 2008 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was being kind of a homer pointing out the Brewers easy schedule
compaired to ours over the next couple of weeks. I know it’s called a schedule..lighten up.
by KYCards on Aug 7, 2008 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
came off harsh there, didn’t mean to.
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Aug 7, 2008 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No problem and you are right
if we have any ideas of being a playoff team we will have to beat the Cubs and the Marlins. I think the next week is really going to be a BIG factor in deciding our fate in terms of getting to October. If we go in to Wrigley and get swept or go 1-2 that’s going to be a pretty big hit to us. Not to mention having to go to Miami and having to play the overlooked Marlins that can score alot of runs on pitching mistakes.
by KYCards on Aug 7, 2008 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
going 1-2 at Wrigley
is exceptable, you only lose 1 game in standings..lose all three and you lose 3 games in standings, not exceptable.
by ridgesee on Aug 7, 2008 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True but to be honest I am more worried about keeping pace with the Brewers
at this point. I hate to say it but right now I am not considering the Cubs as our roadblock to getting to the playoffs. I’m more worried about keeping pace with the Brewers for the wild card…I think trying to take the Central from the Cubs…while fun to think of…is kind of out of reach for us. Barring some kind of epic collapse the Cubs will win the Central. They have the best hitting/pitching in the division.
by KYCards on Aug 7, 2008 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I don't see a collapse from the Cubs
but, for some reason, I do see one coming from the Brewers. I think our trip to play the marlins is very important. I have a feeling the Wild card will come down to us and the fish
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Aug 7, 2008 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can feel their collapse coming too......
I mean look at the Fielder-Parra fight lol they are feeling the pressure!
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 7, 2008 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs basically can't collapse
That’s the most balanced team ever. No true superstars this year, but everyone is doing well.
Plus, they have a deep rotation. Barring both Harden AND Zambrano going on the DL, I gotta think they’re a shoe-in.
by mojowo11 on Aug 7, 2008 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree the Cubs won't collapse
as a Cardinal fan it’s tough to admit but I’ll say it….they are by far the best team in the NL. Like him or not Hendry has put together an all around solid team with basically no holes and a team that is taylor made for their ballpark. Picking up Soriano, DeRosa, Dempster and yes even Edmonds has worked out in spades for them. If Hendry don’t win GM of the year I don’t know who will.
by KYCards on Aug 7, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno about "can't"
They haven’t been very good scoring runs on the road all year, their bullpen has been suspect at times, and they have a ton of road games left in September, so a collapse isn’t completely out of the question, especially if some of their oft-injured players (Wood, Soriano, Harden, Edmonds) end up missing significant time during the stretch run.
Anything can happen. I wouldn’t consider it likely, but I’m not just going to pencil them in as champs when there are two teams less than 6 games out.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 7, 2008 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, so it would take a lot
That’s what I really meant.
I mean, their best hitter (Soriano) has been out a ton this year and their lineup didn’t miss a beat. Zambrano also spent time on the DL. Wood’s been out and that hasn’t really slowed them down either. They have so much talent spread over so many players that I think it would take a catastrophic rash of injuries to really cripple them enough that they would lose the division lead.
by mojowo11 on Aug 7, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sweep L.A. and head to Chicago
I think we can win the series despite the Baby Bears’ advantage with an off day today.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope.. but our offense has to find a way to beat
Lilly and Zambrano. They have shut us down a lot the past couple of seasons. I would think as many times the team has faced Zambrano now, they would have more of an idea how to hit him. Let’s hope they get it figured out this weekend.
by KYCards on Aug 7, 2008 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention......
We need to find a way to beat Harden…......man they have a good rotation….
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 7, 2008 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dempster on Sunday
If I’m not mistaken, and I could be, Dempster is slated to start on Sunday. It’s Looper vs. Lilly on Friday, Colonel vs. Zambrano on Saturday, and Carp vs. Dempster on Sunday. That not an easy row to hoe, for sure, but I’m guessing one of either Friday or Saturday will be a close, well-pitched game that comes down to luck.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for correctly using
that figure of speech, “row to hoe.” It is usually used wrong.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 7, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+10 (to the 10th)
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Aug 7, 2008 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm from Iowa
...where there are a lot of rows.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hi-hoooooo
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Take it to the bank,
Felipe Lopez will make magic for us in Chicago this weekend.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 7, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup - he'll make the offense disappear!
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Aug 7, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on Aug 7, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope TLR
puts out the lineup that gives us the best chance to win today. We need this sweep. We to pick up games in relation to .500 at home. going 3-3 just isn’t acceptable for a home series. 4-2 sounds much better.
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Aug 7, 2008 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
He has said that the best players will play. Hopefully this means that only Yadi gets a break.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yet...
Lopez, Kennedy and Iz2 were all in the starting lineup last night. Maybe he meant the best players WON’T play. Except for Pujols, Yadi and Glaus who are of course established veterans.
by cardzfanbub on Aug 7, 2008 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And we scored 9 runs
The Mad Scientist at his finest. Hopefully, this means that we’ll get our “best” lineup tonight.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't really have a huge issue with last night's lineup
Iz2 is at short because a) he’s swinging okay lately and b) with Ryan gone, he’s basically the only viable option. Kennedy at second worked okay, I’d say. Lopez probably just got in the game because it was his first day with the team…I think there’s something to be said for welcoming a guy with a start, as much as I don’t like him in the OF.
by mojowo11 on Aug 7, 2008 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am more than happy to welcome...
Lopez with a start. It should have been at second base with Mather in left and Kennedy on the bench, but it all worked out well enough.
by cardzfanbub on Aug 7, 2008 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lopez
Lopez sucks, the onlt middle infielder he is better than is cesar iztures.
Miles and Kennedy are far better.
by cardsrule15 on Aug 7, 2008 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"I think the next week is really going to be a BIG factor in deciding our fate in terms of getting to October"
I feel like we’ve been saying that for the past month
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 7, 2008 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In reality
every series now is deciding our fate in terms of getting to October
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Aug 7, 2008 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the real b**ch about having to keep pace with the Brewers is
as Hardcore Legend pointed out last week…if it wasn’t for all the blown saves we had against the Brewers this season…we would have at least a 4-5 game lead on them right now.
by KYCards on Aug 7, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That would be a nice cushion down the stretch
As it stands, we’re neck-and-neck down the home stretch and we still with a good shot at making the postseason. Hopefully, Perez is solution.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In fact if we don't make the playoffs
I will be much more mad at us giving games away to the Brewers and basically giving the the wild card than I would be the Cubs winning the division over us.
by KYCards on Aug 7, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Definetly
If the Cardinals could have taken at least 2 of 4 (which they should have):
Cardinals: 66-50
Brewers: 62-53
by cardsrule15 on Aug 7, 2008 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point, CR15
And that’s not even taking into account the blow saves earlier this year.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blown Saves
Speaking of which the Cardinals have blown 23 saves and have lost 10 of them so under best circumstances, say they lost the league average 5:
Cardinals: 71-45 – First in the NL Central.
(Plus the Brewers Entry)
by cardsrule15 on Aug 7, 2008 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe we have blown 27 but I could be wrong.
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 7, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well then
that makes our record even better
imagine 30 games over!
by cardsrule15 on Aug 7, 2008 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Multiple blown saves in 1 game
I believe there have been a few instances where we’ve blown more than one “save” in a ballgame, which might alter that calculation a bit.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think your math is a little fuzzy
If we had won 5 of the blown save games that we lost, we’d be 69-47, 0.5 GB the Cubs for 1st
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 7, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The marlins are the true overachievers.
They have been outscored by their opponents this year. They aren’t as dangerous as their record.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 7, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
See the Colorado Rockies?
Maybe they catch lightning in a bottle. Again.
by sdrone on Aug 7, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Expanded standings
I was looking at the ESPN expanded standings and noticed a few odd things:
Expected W-L records for top 3 NL Central (actual in parenthesis):
Cubs 72-43 (69-46)
Cards 62-54 (64-52)
Brewers 60-55 (64-51)
Record in 1 run games:
Brewers 22-10
Cards 21-20
Cubs 15-17 (tied for worst in division with Hou)
Cards still have the best record in the NL on the road and 2nd best in MLB. Phi and Mil are closing in though.
by StLHugo on Aug 7, 2008 9:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is it just me...
or does it seem amazing that we’re 1 game above .500 in one run games with all the problems the bullpen has had? I guess when you factor in the amount of blown saves that get the game tied that might have something to do with it, but the bullpen still has to close it out or keep the game close.
The Brewers bullpen doesn’t have a ton of depth, but Shouse and Torres continue to get it done for them apparently.
I don’t this bodes well for the Cubs in the postseason, should they make it.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 7, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or maybe the number of games we had a 3-run lead shaved to a 1-run win by the bullpen?
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 7, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perez
was really hitting the corners of the plate with his fastball last night and threw a few good breaking pitches to off-balance hitters. If he can keep this up he will be the answer to the closer problem, if not he will get hit some because his fastball doesn’t have great movement.
by ridgesee on Aug 7, 2008 9:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The Dusty Effect
This is an incredible article where Dusy Baker says that running keeps pitchers from being injured but stationary bikes don’t do the same—all the while insisting the Volquez is not fatigued:
Many wonder whether Edinson Volquez is feeling the effects of a long season, but Baker doesn’t believe the right-hander’s problems stem from fatigue.
I wonder what Jocketty thought when he read this.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 10:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what Mark Prior thought
as he read that.
by chuckb on Aug 7, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought of that, too
But I didn’t make the comment because I read an article about how the Padres training staff discovered a tear that was trauma-related in his shoulder or something, which suggested that the Cub medical staff missed the injury after Prior collided with Giles while running the bases. Nonetheless, I wonder what Wood, Prior, and Jason Schmidt thought.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tweedy = overrated
Not fit to carry Jay Farrar’s jock.
by Andyfantastic on Aug 7, 2008 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When will Ankiel return to the starting lineup?
Much to the disappointment of the Cardinals, the guessing game as to when Rick Ankiel will return continues.Throughout the week, Ankiel has been limited to pinch-hitting and has rarely commented on how his lower abdominal strain - an injury that has sidelined him since July 26 - is doing. He just keeps saying he’s feeling better.
“I don’t think he’d be cleared by tomorrow,” manager Tony La Russa said prior to Wednesday’s game. “He ran at 75 percent. That’s still 25 percent for him to get well, so I don’t know if he’s going to be ready by Friday.
”... It was where he couldn’t take a step. Now he’s taking little jogs—he’s improving.”
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 10:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A little longer
I was at the game august 2nd against the Phillies. I think it was 2-1 and aaron miles was on second and we had 2 outs. Yadier Molina was the man due up and Ankiel pinch hit for them. I believe the first pitch was a ball and the second a called strike. Then Ankiel swung at two horrible pitches to strike out.
Trust me when I say the way he swung made it seem like his abdominal was still bothering him.
Bottom Line: Leave him out until he says he is 100%.
by cardsrule15 on Aug 7, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brian Gunn
occasional contributor over here, has a good article up at THT. He says, in essence, that the Cards won’t make the playoffs this year b/c their bullpen’s in disarray, the Brewers are playing better and are better suited to the last 6 weeks, and our schedule is too tough. He’s a great writer but I hope he’s wrong here (particularly about the pen).
BTW, I’m not buying all that jack about the Brewers getting ready to implode just b/c their 1B tried to beat up one of their pitchers. They’re still a really good team.
by chuckb on Aug 7, 2008 10:51 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree.. we need to be playing our best these next several weeks
because added with the Brewers easy schedule, I don’t think they are going to implode either. They are a talented bunch. Can’t say much for their manager though.
by KYCards on Aug 7, 2008 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Implosion
I thought that Fielder going after Parra was a good sign. Relievers are hardly ever in the dugout anyway and I bet his fellow everyday position players appreciated it. I was worried that it would light a fire under the Brew Crew and send them on a multi-game winning streak.
That said, I feel the exact opposite of 2006 right now. I’m looking forward to every game. With Carp back, Perez closing, and Wainwright on the near horizon, I feel good about our chances. We’re kept our head above water through times that would’ve broken many a team’s back. I think we’ll be in it until the last week and I’m hoping that The Fates smile on us again.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Parra is a starter
or were you not referring to him when you said reliever?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 7, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was
My mistake. For some reason, I thought Fielder went after a reliever.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Be patient
We still have plenty of time for the Ned Yost effect.
by sdrone on Aug 7, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Listening to Wellemeyer on 1380AM
Claims bigger pants reason last start was so much better. That’s funny. WCW will have a grand old time with this information.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Aug 7, 2008 10:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Somehow
it will be the Bush administration’s fault that Welley didn’t have bigger pants before his last start…
by saladdays on Aug 7, 2008 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah, he'll say Dewitt was too cheap
to buy new uniforms.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Aug 7, 2008 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know what might help this team?
Cotton uniforms. Lighter. Cooler. Breathable….
by effin fisk on Aug 7, 2008 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's all up to Boras now
He will decide whether Kyle Lohse also gets larger pants…......................
by Red in Chicago on Aug 7, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, he is the colonel
he’s used to those baggy civil war uniforms.
by mattybobo on Aug 7, 2008 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I smell the playoffs
Cardinals Tough match-ups in Sept:
6 against the Cubs
Brewers Tough Match-ups in Sept:
6 against the Cubs
3 against the Mets
3 against the Phillies
The rest of the teams the cardinals and brewers face are under or at .500 so we have it much easier. (Knock on wood.)
by cardsrule15 on Aug 7, 2008 11:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
not to mention
the Cubs Sept. is mostly on the road
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 7, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for the insights, guys. Night, night in Bangkok now - non lap fondee - sweet dreams and I'll see the Cards sweep in the A.M. - at least here
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Aug 7, 2008 11:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wrigley
I’ve got a good feeling about Pujols, Ludwick, and Glaus playing in that ridiculous ballpark. Sure wish Ankiel was healthy to get in on the fun too.
In fact I’d be willing to say get ready to be pleasantly surprised this weekend if it weren’t for the combination of the Cubs’ late-inning-offensive-theatrics and our bullpen’s late-inning-flailing.
by Andyfantastic on Aug 7, 2008 11:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I know it's mean but I really wish they would leave Izzy & Franlin in St. Louis
for this road trip. Too much bad karma from those two.
by KYCards on Aug 7, 2008 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can somewhat sympathize
with Jeff Tweedy. The rest of the band probably wanted to do it, they’re loved in Chicago, and he got the chance to sing the 7th inning stretch at one of America’s classic ballparks. At least he got the chance to admit he’s a (although semi) Cardinals fan on television.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Aug 7, 2008 12:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Jack Buck
Didn’t Jack sing take me out to the ballgame at Wrigley while wearing a bright red blazer? Jack was the man.
by DJ87 on Aug 7, 2008 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes but
he pulled a trick. Can’t remember details . Ripped off one jacket to show the other jacket? Blurted out “root root for the CARDINALS” maybe?
It started up (again) the “ok let’s keep this singing crap to Chicago people and Cubs fans” thing.
by sdrone on Aug 7, 2008 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he was wearing
a cubs hat and threw it into the crowd when he sang “root root for the cardinals”, and he wore a red blazer a lot from what I remember. Like most appearances but I could be just Imagining that part. I’m pretty sure about the hat thing though
New Member of the Skip Schumaker Fan Club
by cyko42 on Aug 7, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think he started wearing a cubs hat, then switched to a cards hat?
by mattybobo on Aug 7, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats correct
They play it at Busch during the seventh inning stretch when the cubs are in town.
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Aug 7, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
once a cardinal fan
always a cardinal fan is what I say. How could you betray your original team to be a cubs fan? it just doesn’t make sense other than comfort factors… btw wilco is overrated imo
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 7, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Playoff Question
Can the Wilcard team get homefield advantage in the 1st round of the playoffs if they have the 2nd best overall record?
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Aug 7, 2008 12:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No
Division winners always take home field advantage over the wild card winner
by cardsrule15 on Aug 7, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks fellas..
There’s my dream of us beating the Phils at home, the DBacks knocking off the Cubs, and us riding homefield to the WS.
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Aug 7, 2008 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good thought
I think you’re right though they should give homefield advantage to teams in order of record.
by cardsrule15 on Aug 7, 2008 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reverse splits
...at least for W/L, the Cards are far better on the road. Perhaps we should be hoping for the Wild Card, unless we have to play the Cubbies, who have been out-of-this-world good at Wrigley.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 7, 2008 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I disagree
The wild card winner should never get home field advantage in the playoffs unless they play the other league’s wild card in the World Series
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 7, 2008 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I half agree
There should just be a two division format without a wild card
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Aug 7, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for some reason
I have this feeling we’re going to be playing the Cubs for the pennant
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 7, 2008 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be ecstatic
Imagine being a Cubs fan in that situation. How would you feel about your chances?
"I have CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order. Like they should be."
by BigMOman on Aug 7, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
probably would have very mixed feelings
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 7, 2008 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
But if the Wild Card winner’s league won the ASG and they meet the team from the other league with the best record in all of baseball, they get home field advantage
[/still mad about 2004]
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 7, 2008 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
New reliever lineup possibilites
Try this out:
Villone
Springer
McClellan
by Red in Chicago on Aug 7, 2008 1:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
One quibble
Send Pinata to Springfield!
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 7, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ouch says pinata
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 7, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cardinals line up
per the P-D HOFer:
Izturis, ss
Mather, cf
Pujols, 1b
Ludwick, rf
Glaus, 3b
Lopez, lf
LaRue, c
Lohse, p
Miles, 2b
by Evilfrog on Aug 7, 2008 1:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I really didn't realize we needed an outfielder
I thought Lopez was supposed to help the middle infield problem
by OCCardsFan on Aug 7, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our outfield batting average was too high.
It had to be lowered for balance.
by Red in Chicago on Aug 7, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is getting absurd
if they wanted a LF, sign Barry Bonds.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 7, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
i think he is doing this...
because we didnt sign Bonds…a protest of sorts…
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 7, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tony did it!
He actually made a worse lineup then last nights!!!!!!! he should of took Ludwick out and put Stavinoha in lol…...
"Even when the rain falls, Even when the flood starts rising, Even when the storm comes, I am washed by the water!" -NeedToBreathe
by Calhoun on Aug 7, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barf
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 7, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is there a lefty pitching today?
that why Skip ain’t playing?
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 7, 2008 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is a game thread going up soon?
"I have CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order. Like they should be."
by BigMOman on Aug 7, 2008 1:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Someone help me out
Has there every been a team that took a starting pitcher with the highest ERA+ during the season and put him in the bullpen?
The only thing I can think that is remotely close is Smoltz and he was recovering from an arm injury.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 7, 2008 1:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't imagine
After all, that’d be a very silly thing to do, don’t you think?
Grrr.
by mojowo11 on Aug 7, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was Brett Meyers
the era+ leader on the Phils the year before going to the pen?
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Aug 7, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Waino
is recovering from an injury too. (Not that I want him to be in the bullpen by any means, though.)
by saladdays on Aug 7, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not to downplay it
but it’s just a finger, I don’t know how much you can really wear it out starting.
by TheBirds on Aug 7, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But putting him in the pen
makes that injury more of a risk.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 7, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has that asinine move been confirmed?
Or are we still speculating about the front office’s delayed over-reaction?
by Red in Chicago on Aug 7, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
unless someone actually saves games
seems like it’s going to happen.
So please Perez, Save Waino.
by TheBirds on Aug 7, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Game thread up.
"I have CDO. It's like OCD, but the letters are in alphabetical order. Like they should be."
by BigMOman on Aug 7, 2008 2:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Bud's All-Star tie tops our non-steroid controversies of decade
- D12: Revisiting the Twins decision of Mauer over Prior (again)
- After locking up of AL MVP, it's time for Twins to lock up Mauer
- November means R&R for Raiders fan CC Sabathia and others
- D12: Honeymoon over for big Bobby Jenks and Ozzie Guillen?
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
