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Wainwright: Closer or Starter?

    Assuming Wainwright's finger is now fine and he comes back after a few rehab starts, in which role does he help the team more, Closer or Starter.  At first I thought this was pretty obvious, but now even Bernie has gotten behind this so obviously there is more merit to it than I thought.

    Wainwright for Starter?  The main point is very simple, wainwright would pitch 7 innings per 5 games as a starter, but won't even get half that as a closer.  Wainwright gets about 4 outs more per game than Joel PIniero, the pitcher I'm assuming he would replace.  That means that aside from maybe his first start back he takes stress off of the bullpen just by starting, so you can have your cake and eat it too.  There is no need to transition Wainwright back to a starter, which becomes absolutely neccesary I think when you cut down to 4 starters if you make the playoffs, 7/4 innings per game of Wainwright is too good to pass up. If the Cards get a little help from off days and the arms are healthy, it might be a good Idea to switch to a 4 man rotation the last 3-4 weeks of the season if they need to catch up to another team.

    Also, you have to consider that Izzy will still be there, I have a hard time believing Wainwright would boot Izzy completely off the team.  So while Izzy might not be able to muck up any high leverage situations, he'll still make you uneasy and probably won't provide that many innings as I see him getting lifted early and often.  I think the main reason why people want Waino as closer is they are just tired of the whole Izzy/Franklin fiasco, but they'll still be there.

    Wainwright as a closer?  He'll only be brought in for close game situations, which are higher leverage than the average inning he starts.  Also, his ERA should lower (but then again so should Joel Piniero's) if he only has to pitch 1 inning at a time.  And most importantly, we won't be blowing so many friggin games in the 9th inning.

    That's about all I can think of, I'm sure there are lots of points that can be added.  I feel the ideal situation is to DFA Izzy (tastefully if possible) and call up Perez.  KMac moves into the closer role if you believe that the best reliever belongs there (I believe you just go for the highest leverage situations and there isn't much special about the last 3 outs).

 

Poll
Where should Wainwright go?
Starting Rotation
77 votes
Bullpen
18 votes
DFA the bum!!!
4 votes

99 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 16 comments

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With my vote

The tally now stands at 1-0-0, meaning there’s a 100% consensus that our ace starter needs to…start. Duh?

Try Perez. If he flames out of the role, put Wellemeyer there. He’s got the stuff to do it and his workload is growing beyond what he’s used to throwing anyway.

by mojowo11 on Aug 6, 2008 2:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

2-0-0

i would say he needs to be a starter. I agree that we need to give perez, kmac, or another youngster the chance to close games. They sure as hell cant be any worse than izzy and franklin. i know the cubbies are stacked in the rotation, but i will take carp, wainwright, and lohse against any rotation in the league. i dont know about the four man rotation idea that has been going around, but wagonmaker needs to be in the rotation.

10.27.06..greatest day of my life

by steveo61086 on Aug 6, 2008 2:31 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I voted "DFA the bum"

Just because it’s a ridiculous choice

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 6, 2008 4:11 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I voted bullpen

The pen is so bad that it just makes more sense at this point. It doesnt matter how well Adam pitches if he starts when there is a good chance they will blow it

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Aug 6, 2008 4:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Putting A.D.A.M.

In the pen is like looking at the 9 hole and saying well we haven’t been getting enough production from this spot so let’s bat Ludwick here. He’’’ make it better…ah fixed.

Now once I cut down all of these trees I might be able to find this forrest everyone is talking about.

by Harknights on Aug 6, 2008 4:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

A closer! A closer!

What happens when Adam pitches 8 innings of shut out ball and we loose because Tony puts Izzy in the nineth to give up three runs?

I understand all the reasons for Wainman to start, but it might not matter if the pen stays the way it is! The rotation makes the pen stronger, but it works the other way around too.

by nybirdfan on Aug 6, 2008 5:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What happens

...if instead of Wainwright we have Pineiro starting and he gives up 5 runs in 5 innings instead of Wainwright giving up 3 runs in 7?

Then that late-and-close situation that the bullpen blows could’ve been avoided in the first place.

by mojowo11 on Aug 6, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly!

Maybe Pineiro should close.

The problem goes both ways. I am not saying Wainright should close. I am saying if we don’t solve the closer problem it could be a wash. I don’t care who closes, but please no more Izzy/Franklin.

by nybirdfan on Aug 6, 2008 5:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

better check with mojowo11

cause doesn’t that leave Pineiro in the rotation

by nybirdfan on Aug 6, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

carpenter, wainwright, lohse, wellemeyer, looper…... why the pineiro worry?

"so if you can’t understand what someone else is saying why don’t you just shut up about it instead of being a jerk-off?"

by baw on Aug 6, 2008 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

welly

As a former Bellarmine Knight baseball player…I vote ww to start, welly to close. joe L to the pen.

by RDF922 on Aug 6, 2008 7:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I posted this somewhere else but here goes

If we can only count on five innings from our starters then lets do it this way

6th inning KMac
7th Springer
8th Perez
9th Waino
and sprinkle in Villone and Garcia when needed

I know that AW is far superior to Joel P as a starter but our real problem is not that Joel has 5 losses, but that our pen has 24 losses with 27 blown saves. How many of those gmes would have been won with the back of the pen that I’m suggesting. I think we’d be up by about 9 games today.

by BobaSchrute on Aug 6, 2008 11:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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