live n learn
by lboros on Aug 4, 2008 8:31 AM EDT
235 comments
rest in peace, skip caray. he was neither as beloved nor as colorful as his father, but i came to like his dry approach quite a bit.
ryan ludwick’s beating himself up for missing that fastball from ryan madson with the bases loaded and two down in the 8th. i went back and looked again, then looked at it on gameday, and he’s right --- you couldn’t have asked for a juicier pitch, belt high and over the heart of the plate. victorino took a similar pitch out of the yard for the game-deciding homer; ludwick, overanxious, yanked his into a DP. right guy, right situation; he just didn’t come through.
you could say the same thing of springer in the top half of the inning. i wasn’t near my laptop and don’t know what the real-time reaction was like on the game thread, but personally i was pleasantly surprised that la russa went to springer there instead of franklin. tony doesn’t like to vary from his patterns, and he particularly doesn’t like to pass over one of his pet veterans and give that guy’s normal job to somebody else --- even to another vet. 8th inning, right-handed hitter ---- that’s ryan franklin’s job, and that’s who tony usually push-buttons into the game. franklin had been warming up earlier in the inning and was ready to go. but, refreshingly, TLR eschewed the rote maneuver and gave the ball to springer, who had gotten burrell out in all 7 of their previous career confrontations, 5 times via the strikeout. couldn’t ask for a better matchup. tony’s second-guessing himself in the paper this morning, saying he shouldn’t have asked springer to pitch for a 3rd consecutive day, but that’s just the manager trying to take the heat off a player who failed. the last time springer pitched 3 consecutive days, in boston june 20 through 22, he threw a shutout inning each day; the only time he threw 3 straight days last year (june 16 through 18, vs oakland and kc) he got the exact same result, a scoreless inning each day. his pitch count in saturday night’s game was only 9, far from a wearying total. and in springer’s 12 previous appearances this season on 0 days of rest, he had yielded a .222 / .300 / .222 line to opposing batters, with only 1 run scoring against him. la russa had ample reason to believe that springer was up to this assignment. right guy, right situation . . . .
stavinoha and mather decidedly were not the right guys in the bottom of the 9th, with the tying run at 3d; putty in lidge’s hands. that’s part of the price you pay with a young team --- from time to time you have to put guys in situations they are simply not equipped to handle, and occasionally those occasions come with a game on the line. those poor dudes swung at lidge’s slider 5 times and never made contact --- not even a foul ball. no disgrace in it; normal part of the learning process. we can hope they take better at-bats next time in that situation, learn to recognize the slider a little bit better. but they can’t take last night’s terrible at-bats over again. they’re in the books.
to cycle back to ludwick’s at-bat for just a second: his standard clutch stats are very good. before last night he had a .311 / .395 / .519 overall line with RISP and a .291 / .409 / .545 line with RISP and 2 outs. and according to BR, he’s got a .973 ops in high-leverage situations, with "high leverage" defined as a leverage index of 1.5 or higher. but in what we might call super-high-leverage situations --- LI of 3.0 or higher --- ludwick has rarely come through: after last night he’s 4 for 21 with 1 homer, 2 doubles, and an intentional walk, for an overall line of .190 / .227 / .429. he’s struck out in 8 of the 21 at-bats. i’m not citing these figures in an attempt to prove anything, just to be clear about this; i’m not suggesting the ludwick’s a choker. a sample that small doesn’t mean anything to begin with, and you’d expect a hitter’s stats to be poor in those situations because in high-leverage at-bats the other team usually has one of its best relievers on the mound. just curious, that’s all; ludwick is still an inexperienced big-leaguer (hunter pence has nearly as many at-bats) and even more inexperienced as a Big Time Hitter. he told rick hummel his "hands released a little early," which is a polite way of saying he overswung --- he took a jumpy swing. this, too, can be chalked up to the cardinals’ learning curve in 2008.
if there’s one thing i’m annoyed about, it’s that 3-6-3 they didn’t convert on chase utley right before the phils’ clinching rally. izturis or ryan might have turned it, and one of those guys should have been in the game. hell, one of them should have started --- miles has no business playing ss with those two on the team. i don’t want to turn this into a miles-bashing thread, because we’d all have to admit he’s been very good this year --- worth the money they’re paying him. whether or not his performance is sustainable (and it almost surely isn’t), he’s the only st louis middle infielder who’s hit worth a damn this year; he’s hit as well as eckstein did in his best seasons here, and for a fraction of the cost. but his bat still isn’t enough of an asset to overcome the cost of his substandard defense at ss. last night was his 18th start of the year at the position, and that’s 18 too many.
did that cost the cardinals the game? absolutely not; far from it. i only mention it because it’s the only thing within their control that they could have done differently.
if you’re looking for some good news, todd wellemeyer showed some encouraging signs last night ---- best performance in the last 2 months, imho. he induced 11 swinging strikes, his highest total since june 5 (when the elbow first barked) and his second consecutive game in double digits (he got 10 swinging strikes last time out); 5 of the misses last night came off his slider. the colonel has thrown at least 6 innings in 4 of his last 5 starts; his game score last night, 62, was his best in over a month and the second straight time he has topped 50. if he can get more comfortable out there at the same time that carp and (soon) wainwright come back to the rotation, the cards still might make this interesting.
and here’s a little more happy spin (don’t know what’s gotten into me this morning): since wainwright and wellemeyers’ troubles began, back in the first week of june, the cards have played exactly .500 --- 26 wins, 26 losses, with identical runs for / against totals (253). they’ve lost 2.5 games to the cubs in the standings, and 4 games to the brewers. given that they’ve been missing (literally or figuratively) their two best pitchers during those two months, we couldn’t realistically have asked for better results. of course, if not for the constant late-inning meltdowns the last couple of months, the cardinals would have achieved better. . . . . .
let's just not go there.
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Skip Caray
Spent 6 years on the East Coast before the web existed. It was a treat then to catch the Cards v. Braves on TBS. Always enjoyed listening to the STL native Skip Caray. Having listened to his father call Cards games as a child, it took a while getting used to the difference in delivery between father and son. But I grew to really enjoy Skip. He never got in the way of the game. He was there to watch the game with you rather than conduct some sort of talk show that happened to be occurring during a baseball game telecast ala Dan and Al. Skip sometimes wouldn’t say a thing for 20 seconds or so just letting the game happen then recap the action. What underlies the ability to let the game come first is the lack of an ego and the confidence to allow the game come first. You just don’t see that too often in broadcasters. I’ll miss Skip.
by jjray on Aug 4, 2008 8:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So will I...
Once upon a time, Skip broadcast St. Louis Hawks games with Jack Buck… the kicker was, one announcer would do the play-by-play when the Hawks had the ball, and the other guy would take over when the Hawks’ opponent had the ball! They didn’t stick with that arrangement for long, and Skip took over the PBP duties for the Hawks, moving to Atlanta with the franchise.
I always thought Skip combined his father’s enthusiasm with Jack’s dry wit… back when the Braves were B-A-D, Skip once said, “If you promise to come back and watch the movie in 45 minutes, now would probably be a good time to walk the dog.” He’ll be missed…
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on Aug 4, 2008 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
a Skip Carey-ism I remember
...he was doing a very early start Thursday afternoon game, the kind they used to call a “businessman’s special.” One time when he mentioned that, he then segued, saying (close paraphrase)... “and we really do see quite a few businessmen out here today, many of them here with their… daughters.”
Followed by at least 15 seconds of silence. And you could just sense that Skip’s throat was so stuck from trying not to laugh (at his own joke) that he couldn’t talk. And Pete Van W, or Ernie, or whoever was beside him was probably in the same condition and could not bale him out.
He was such a nice broadcaster, in so many ways, just like the two of you above have cited. But the thing I think I appreciated the most was the subtle and witty underbelly that punctuated his style.
Requiescat.
by the Tewk on Aug 4, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember those days..
back when TBS and WGN were the only “superstations”. I watched the Braves quite a bit since they were the only baseball on in the evenings. Got my wife interested even. When the Braves started doing better in the early ‘90’s, we kind of wished they’d suck again because the broadcasts, and especially Skip were so much funnier when they consistently lost.
by ArkansasTravs on Aug 5, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welley
If I recall correctly, the graphs from that post however many days ago about Wellemeyer showed that it took him a few starts (3? 4?) to really settle in and get a handle on his pitches. After that, his pitches were more consistent(ly good) and he was more effective for a stretch of 3-5 starts before his injury. I suppose it’s possible that he’s starting to hit that stride again after the elbow thing…that would mean nice things for the coming Welley weeks.
by mojowo11 on Aug 4, 2008 9:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yup yup
I saw the same thing from the graphs in that post the other day (great post by the way, can we get those for all the Cardinal pitchers?)—it seemed to take him around 5 consecutive starts from the beginning of the year to be really effective with his velocity and movement. His last two starts were the 6th and 7th consecutive starts since the elbow injury, and as LB pointed out in the post, he’s induced swinging strikes in those starts at the same rate that he did for his 8 start run in May. It might have something to do with having just the right amount of arm fatigue to be able to control his pitches, or perhaps he’s just a creature of habit and needs to have a set routine of off day throwing and pre-game bullpen sessions in order to get things right.
Regardless, if the club gets the May version of Welley back, along with the return of Carpenter and the imminent return of Wainwright, I really like our chances since we’ll be able to bolster the bullpen, hopefully, via Memphis and by dropping a starter in the rotation. Someone brought up skipping Piniero in the rotation this week in a thread from last weekend, I think that’s a good idea considering the way things end up with the off day today.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 4, 2008 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A shame
It’s too bad that the club squandered such effective starts from Looper and Wellemeyer. It’d have been nice to win at least one of those.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Han Solo
Solo homers this weekend: 5
Season Solo HR : 63.93, up .60% from July 31st.
I am only updating the running analysis that has pregressed over the season. I don’t think this contributed to our loss last night at all.
Kudos for TLR for bringing in Springer, even if it didn’t work out in the end. Hopefully we will be seeing more of Russ in the 8th inning.
Carp on Tuesday, versus Manny & Co. Should be a doozie.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 9:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I liked the Springer move,
but I wish La Russa could manage three innings using fewer than 5 relievers. This contributes to the pen’s workload when everyone in the bullpen warms up everyday.
by azruavatar on Aug 4, 2008 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That it does
I wondered why TLR pulled the Colonel when he did. Yes, he walked a batter, bringing the tying run to the plate, but I thought that he could have stayed in for one more batter, unless TLR really wanted Victorino vs. a lefty over the strikeout-prone Jenkins vs. Wellemeyer. Villone retires Victorino and then promptly walks the LHB, which then requires McClellan in the 7th as opposed to the 8th.
Both McClellan and Garcia would seem to be prime candidates for pitching a full late inning, especially given their recent pasts as starters.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McClellan's "recent" past as a starter is over three seasons ago........
He relieved last year, and missed the year before, and missed the year before that. He was a starter the year before that…........
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Aug 4, 2008 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
The second-to-last season he played during, he started. Last season was his first in relief. It would therefore follow that his repertoire would translate as being roughly equally effective versus lefties and righties. In fact, McClellan has been better versus lefties this year than righties just as Garcia has been better against righties than lefties. This would seem to make leaving either pitcher in for an entire inning more plausible since they can retire batters from both sides of the plate, unlike, say, Villone.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he has starter stuff, and yes he gets lefthanders out well too.
I was just pointing out that he hasn’t been starting in the “recent” past—more like the distant past.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Aug 4, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've never liked the parade of 1000 relievers
I agree w/ azru that there is an additional cost in workload with the extra warm ups. More than anything, though, it irritates me when the game stops each time a pitching change is made within an inning for a questionable matchup advantage.
by random on Aug 4, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Although
Just before Ludwick homered, on a 3-0 count Albert swung at ball four and then made an out on the next pitch. I don’t assume Ludwick would have received the exact same pitch he homered on if Albert had been on base, but . . . he might have. Happy as I was with Ludwick’s homer, I lamented not having a runner on first when he hit it.
Tough series for Pujols.
by Youneverknow on Aug 4, 2008 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good thing
we shored up that bullpen before the deadline.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Aug 4, 2008 9:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's shortsighted...
If we have Will Ohman in the bullpen last night, does that really change anything about the situation? He basically would have pitched in place of Garcia, Springer still comes in and gives up a single to Burrell and a homer to Victorino, we’re just down only two runs instead of three, but still down. That only increases our win percentage about 5%, and that’s if he gets the hitter out that Garcia couldn’t, which you can’t say for sure.
You’re going to lose games occasionally, especially when your club has trouble scoring more than 2 runs off of the likes of Joe Blanton and Brett Myers. If the offense scores on it’s average on both Saturday and Sunday, we probably win both games.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 4, 2008 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I think that Garcia is a bullpen upgrade. And, if we pull Perez back up, that will be another arm to bolster the ‘pen.
Who are we going to bring into the 8th inning that has had a better two seasons that Russ Springer?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
it’s not as if arthur rhodes would have turned that loss into a win. nor will ohman, nor even brian fuentes.
by lboros on Aug 4, 2008 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess we'll never know
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Aug 4, 2008 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
boring argument
i guess we’ll never know. to quote the great fats waller, “One never knows, do one?”
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Aug 4, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was also encouraged
by the fact that Tony, twice this weekend, used Garcia in high leverage situations facing the Phils’ two best lefties—Utley and Howard.
by chuckb on Aug 4, 2008 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A question
Last night’s game was the only one that I got to watch—I listened to the other two on the radio. Were we playing Howard as deep as we were on his single last night every PA or just late in the game with the tying run on first, to try and prevent that runner from scoring?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't see it
I’m not going to say why. In being a good husband, I yielded the TV to my wife and missed us blowing the game. So much for being a good husband!
by chuckb on Aug 4, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I liked that, too
And thought LaRussa might be bringing in Garcia in part to give him that high pressure MLB experience. I think that may indicate something of LaRussa’s intentions on bullpen roles for the last part of the season. Hope so, anyway.
by random on Aug 4, 2008 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No no no
La Russa hates rookies!
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Aug 4, 2008 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
made me laugh there, Alex
That Tony hate rooks is definitely an article of faith for many…despite evidence to the contrary. I am concerned, and I’ll bet La Russa is too, about relying on arms that are way past their previous highest IP marks.
I think one of the reasons Wainwright worked out so well two years ago was that he went starter to reliever and was not out there pitching on fumes in the 5th inning, hanging the curve, and getting lit up. Garcia pitched 103 innings in 2007 & is at 116 IP now.
by random on Aug 4, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about you guys and gals
but I can’t get enough of hearing about the trade deadline!!!
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Aug 4, 2008 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody we wanted left
It would be one thing if some bullpen help moved but we just didn’t pull the trigger. The problem was nobody moved but Rhodes who I watched blow a game before the deadline. He wasn’t that cheap either for what he is really.
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 4, 2008 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last night...
It did look like Springer might have had a fatigued arm last night, since his pitches to both Burrell and Victorino looked to have missed location and been up in the zone. Regardless, he was the best guy for the situation, I don’t think Franklin does any better.
You didn’t address my biggest question about last night’s game though: Why did they pull Wellemeyer when they did? He had only thrown 91 pitches to that point, and certainly didn’t look like he was laboring at all. If he’s able to get them through the 7th with a one run lead, K-Mac could have started the 8th inning, Springer never would have needed to pitch last night, and Izzy might have had his first shot at a high leverage save.
Although the pitch seemed hittable, I’m still not necessarily happy with Ludwick’s AB in the 8th inning though. They seemed to be pitching around Pujols to get to Ludwick, but Madson had just thrown 4 straight balls off the plate, so a little bit of patience might have paid off. If he thought the first pitch was the best pitch he was going to get, I don’t begrudge him for taking a swing at it, but I just don’t think that was the pitch he was looking for or he would have hammered it.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 4, 2008 10:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i don't disagree w/ the call to pull wellemeyer
he was on his 3rd time through the order; he had just given up a homer to utley, and after the walk to burrell there were 2 left-handed hitters due up; a mere single puts the tying run in scoring position. i was glad they played the matchups there.
besides they haven’t let wellemeyer get much past 90 pitches since the elbow problem began, and even before it began he rarely got much past 100. the relievers were reasonably well rested; i thought it made sense to let them take it from there.
by lboros on Aug 4, 2008 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was the pitch he was looking for
It doesn’t get any better than a belt-high fastball over the middle of the plate. He just missed it. I am in no way, shape, or form angry at Luddy for first-pitch swinging there.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First Pitch Success
He hit a double and a homer on first pitches in his first two ABs.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But, as was pointed out in an earlier post
he (Luddy) seems to get “over-aggresive” in very high leverage situations. He took a swing at a very hittable pitch, similar to the ones he’d hit hard earlier, but it still looked like an over-anxious swing to me. And, obviously, the results weren’t as good.
by ArkansasTravs on Aug 5, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could almost understand
using Aaron Miles at SS if he was being put there so that a solid offensive player could play 2b. If we had Jeff Kent of 3-4 years ago, we’re choosing Miles’ offense over Izturis’ or Ryan’s defense. That’s understandable. Playing him at SS so we can use the suck-tastic Adam Kennedy at 2B makes no sense whatsoever. If we’re going to play Miles (and we should, given our alternatives) then we’re choosing good defense and terrible offense at 2b OVER better defense and terrible offense at SS—a more important defensive position. Plus, we’re taking Miles away from where he’s a decent defensive player and putting him at a position where he’s just bad.
Adam Kennedy, if he’s going to remain on the roster, should also remain on the bench. There’s really no way to justify his playing over either Izturis or Ryan—simply b/c his playing forces Miles to SS. Sheesh, one day this weekend Tony had Kennedy in LF!
by chuckb on Aug 4, 2008 10:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No justification
I understand what you are saying HC, but at this point, should Kennedy ever start at secondbase? I would say that he should not. Miles should start at the position from here on out because his defense is less of a liability at second and he has been head and shoulder above the other heads of the MIF hydra in terms of offensive production. There is no player on the roster that justifies displacing Miles at second at this point. He should play there, and only there, with Izturis and Ryan sharing SS duties.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was my point
I knew I didn’t make it that well. My point was that Kennedy should never be starting at 2b b/c it puts Miles at SS. Miles should start every day at 2b and it can be either Izturis or Ryan, I don’t really care which, at SS. Kennedy’s as bad offensively as Izturis and Ryan but at least the latter 2 can keep Miles at 2nd. Kennedy can’t even do that.
by chuckb on Aug 4, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ready for another year?
Miles/Kennedy at secondbase in 2009…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kennedy's actually
been better than Miles this year if you take +/- at face value. He’s got him by 18 plays, which is around 13 runs and that’s makes up the offensive difference according to EQR or btRuns.
by haltz on Aug 4, 2008 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say that Kennedy is a better hitter than Iztoo or Ryan
but not by much
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 4, 2008 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
with the funk that trio (Izturis, Ryan, Kennedy) has been in
and Tony stating I don’t how many times this year that the offense needs to do more , why exactly do they continue to have three players on this team (Izturis, Ryan, Kennedy ) that are absolute liabilities with the bat, and pluses with the glove. You can have a combo of Izturis-Ryan, Izturis-Kennedy, or Ryan-Kennedy and still be able to basically field the same MIF combo. The third one is redundant.
When exactly will they put an end to this and give either Barden or Freese a callup? They can’t exactly be any worse with the bat. Hell , even Hoffpauir might have more pop than those three, and that just might say too much about our MIF.
I know that Barden is on his way to the Olympics, I just think that doing what is best for the Cardinals should be put before the Olympics.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 4, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree.........
Easiest thing to do right now is sending Brendan Ryan down. It’s kind of a no brainer as it’s a bit harder to demote/cut Izturis and Kennedy. Izturis is bad with the bat, but Ryan is no better so it’s not really a positive to sit Izturis to get Ryan AB’s.
The Funny think is realistically Kennedy and Ryan are guaranteed to be around next year. I think Miles will be around for sure but the Cards would have to resign him as he has a one year contract. I am not so certain the Card will sign Izturis for another year next year as he is on a one year contract as well.
by ICbirdfan on Aug 5, 2008 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
the only reason to put Miles at short is if you are going to put someone that can hit at 2B… which we don’t really have (I was hoping it would be Brendan Ryan or someone via trade earlier)
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 4, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no more miles at ss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
by sportsman on Aug 4, 2008 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont know if this was discussed alredy
and forgive me if it was, but durring the game last night the ESPN crew did a thing about the top three players from each franchise ever and last night it was the Cards.
the fans came up with
1. Musial
2. Ozzie
3. Gibby
and the ESPN guys came up with
1. Musial
2. Gibby
3. Brock
now forgive me if im wrong but shouldnt it clearly be
Musial, Hornsby, Gibson?
I mean Brock was pretty good but Hornsby was a freak and at a crappy position.
I mean Hornsby was one of the best hitters ever in the NL much less on our team.
Isnt that something the experts should know, or am I wrong?
I know Brock is a great player and certianly a fan favorite but many people say he is one of the weaker HOFers. i dont know if its true or not but no one could ever think that about Rogers.
I wonder why he gets little respect?
I know Stan doesnt get much national cred for whatever reason, so its fair to assume rogers wouldnt either but he was a great hitter.
I dont know if it was the fact that he played for years here, or because he played so long ago in a different era, or becuase he was a legendary jerk but the guy seems to get no respect. No credit.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Aug 4, 2008 10:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Brock wasn't anywhere near the player
Hornsby was. Neither was Ozzie. I’d have to agree—Musial, Hornsby, Gibson.
by chuckb on Aug 4, 2008 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Consider the source on the Brock pick
There’s not ot much video of Rajah around these days. Plus, espn isn’t exactly known for their attention span.
By the by, (whatever that means)Goold had a blog about it up at the p-d today and he agrees with Stan, Gibby, and Rogers.
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Aug 4, 2008 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has Gibby before Rogers?
Sounds fine to me. Gibson was truly special. I also understand (to some degree) ignoring Hornsby in that we are always biased by those we remember. Hornsby played 90 years ago and most at ESPN, and in St. Louis, remember Brock. This biases us so I get it.
by chuckb on Aug 4, 2008 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also,
Hornsby wasn’t really given the attention he deserved back in the 1920s due to the Babe Ruth phenomenon.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Aug 4, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
once had 450 total bases in a year
2nd all-time to babe ruth. slugged .756 in a season, 9th all-time behind a smattering of bonds, ruth, one year of gehrig. batted .424 on year, 6th all-time. these are just a few single season records, a sample of how ridiculously awesome he was. has anybody at espn ever heard of baseballreference.com? it really sucks how he’s always been overlooked, even in his time.
by mattybobo on Aug 4, 2008 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hornsby & Zipf's law
I wish we had newspaper content analysis for this kind of issue. I’d love to see reputation quantified and tracked over place and era, but it would be a hell of a lot of work. BTW, I hate knowing more about Rizzuto than I do about Hornsby, and almost nothing about Marion & Stephens.
by random on Aug 4, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honest question
If you extend that list, when do we start to see the name “Pujols”?
How do we evaluate a list like this when we have someone like Pujols who’s still playing?
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Aug 4, 2008 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think pretty quickly
Dizzy Dean is going to be up there as well but there’s a good argument to be made that Pujols is better than Brock, and maybe Ozzie. It wouldn’t have to go too far before we see Pujols, IMO.
Maybe since he hasn’t played 10 years yet and isn’t eligible for the Hall of Fame, he wouldn’t even be considered but I’d say that once he’s played his 10 years, he’ll be 4th or higher.
by chuckb on Aug 4, 2008 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dizzy
is another guy that doesn’t get a lot of credit, despite being one of the best pitchers in teh big leagues in an era of great offensive numbers.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 4, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly,
Dizzy only had six years of full-time pitching before getting hurt in the 1937 All-Star Game. He pitched in just 42 games for the Cubs from 1938 through 1940 (225 total innings), with one inning with the Cubs in 1940, and four innings for the Brownies in 1947.
But whatta six years! 133-75, just under a 3.00 ERA (when the average league ERA was 3.94), 1090 strikeouts against 344 walks (over a 3-to-1 ratio), and 30 saves in an era where “closing” was what you did to a door!
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on Aug 4, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hijack
I’m going to hijack this thread and shift it to the subject of Cardinal greats. To get your name on the leftfield wall, what does it take? I would like to take this moment and lobby from Branch Rickey’s inclusion on the leftfield wall. He signed Medwick, Dean, (and maybe Musian) and many other Cards of the era, invented the minor league system (which allowed the Cards to compete with the big market clubs), went on to sign Jackie Robinson and then draft Roberto Clemente. This is a fanpost that I’ve been going over in my head for some time, but have just never sat down and written. What say you folks?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sounds like a great fanpost
and probably a good idea as well
by chuckb on Aug 4, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The trouble with "lists"
is that many people have no knowledge of sports history and only relate to what they’ve seen. Thus, guys from long ago like Rogers Hornsby get ignored, which is absurd. His accomplishments were incredible.
by ccthemovieman on Aug 4, 2008 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate that wall
Retire #51!
[Honestly, I think they’ll retire it, but wait until all of us early-30’s/late-20 somethings that (perhaps) irrationally love McGee are in our 40/50’s with lots of disposible income so they can have a big old expensive weekend at the ballpark for Willie’s retirement ceremony.]
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Aug 4, 2008 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why aren't people talking about retiring Edmonds's #
This guys was one of the greatest Cardinals of all time. Great stats, clutch performances, awesome glove. What else is there to love?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 4, 2008 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's an arguement to be made
And I would have made it before he became a Cub!
Just kidding, I think only having 8 seasons with the team, and only 6 being super productive hurts him. He should definitly be in the new Cardinals HOF when (if) it’s built st ballpark village, though.
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Aug 4, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oddly enough
Jimmy being a Cub and his resurgence has got to be helping his Hal chances.
I dont know if he is a HOF or not, but he was one of my favorites. The most excieting baseball player ive seen.
but as long as he is a Cub—BOO
as soon as he retires, he is our Jimmy again
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Aug 4, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think because he's a Cub now, and LaRussa doesn't like him anymore,
we are all supposed to hate #15. He still has a business here, he married a gal from these parts, and I’d bet he’s got tons of friends still around town.
I would love to see it happen—at the very least they ought to honor him after he retires with some kind of special day.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Aug 4, 2008 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Impossible to Hate
I cheer against him everyday in a bittersweet exercise, but there is no way to hate Jimmy Edmonds—not after the years he gave us of offensive and defensive performance. Edmonds is one of those rare players who really is a performer, as if he is on stage, and I always loved watching him for it. I wish that he’d have retired a Cardinal, but many a Redbird great has seen the sun set on his career while wearing a different jersey and I don’t think that we should let that jersey tarnish our memories of Edmonds.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trust me
from being at his first game back, even as a Cub, nobody hates him. That was a very, very nice ovation (and an equally good one when he struck out).
Tony did his best to reflect the importance of that series to being all about Edmonds return, but the Cards fans didn’t care. He’s a Card for life regardless of his dumb uniform now.
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Aug 4, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glad to hear it
I hope they applauded equally as loud with each of his four strikeouts that day.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad to hear that some fans of Jimmy before are still fans of him now.
He was a great player for us and his injury problems were directly related with how hard he played for us. He will always be special to me and I want him to do well. The man still wanted to play, and I’m glad he has the chance. Even with the Cubs…...
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Aug 4, 2008 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love Jimmy
Still probably my favorite baseball player, even though he’s on the Cubs.
by mojowo11 on Aug 4, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's weird to think of him
not being a Card, no?
He was ridic from 2000 to 2004.
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Aug 4, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK in support of myself here.
The guy played in over 1000 games as a Cardinal. That is 28th all-time. He rankes #4 in HR, #11 in x-base hits, #5 in OPS (.947), #8 in BB, #7 in OBP, #7 in SLG, #12 in RBI. Oh yeah, and he won 6 straight gold gloves. I know he was a Cardinal for only 8 years, but it only took him 8 years to pile up stats and highlights that rank up there with or past Simmons, McGee, Ozzie, Medwick, etc….. If you look at the total offensive package that Edmonds brought to the table while a Cardinal, only Musial, Hornsby, and Pujols consistently rank higher.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 4, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he makes the HOF...
they’ll retire his number. I don’t think they will otherwise.
by cardzfanbub on Aug 4, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how does McGee stack up vs. Jimmy?
I was under the impression that McGee did more for us, but that could be biased by my childhood in the 80s
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 4, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you mean more for us...
as in help us win games? It is not even close JEd is head and shoulders above McGee. Jimmy is arguably one of the top 10 CF to ever play the game while Willie would have trouble cracking the top 50…aside from 1 good year McGee wasnt that special out side of our memories.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 4, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McGee vs Edmonds top 5 OPS+ years
McGee: 147, 120, 119, 102 multiple times
Edmonds: 170, 160, 158, 149, 146
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Aug 4, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at least McGee hit for a higher average
and stole more bases, the batting crown, etc. but yeah, I clearly see that Edmonds will be more of a chance to be a HOFer
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 4, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
great inovator-changed the game
id put him up there.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Aug 4, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he puts in 10 years at his current pace
I think he’s number 3. That’s taking nothing away from Gibby. He scuffled for a couple of seasons on each side of his prime. Dizzy only had five or six years that could be called great or even productive. Albert hit the ground running and we have yet to see a season less than terrific from him. Giving him ten of these years I’d rate Albert behind The Man and Rajah and ahead of Gibby, Ozzie and Brock in that order. What to do about Ray Busse?
by easy on Aug 4, 2008 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
depends on who you ask
a certain someone might say:
Hrabosky, Hrabosky, Hrabosky.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Aug 4, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait
What if the hurricane was named Hurricane Hrabosky?
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dylon, who are your five favorite rappers?
um….
DYLON
DYLON
DYLON
DYLON
DYLON
bonus points to whoever gets it
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Aug 4, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think at this point
It’s no longer an obscure reference to quote Chapelle.
by mojowo11 on Aug 4, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i was thinking it was so old now
that most people had forgotten, especially this one.
did I spell Dylon right, guys?
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Aug 4, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was
AWESOME!
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Aug 4, 2008 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say because his era is so removed from our own
that more recent players get more recognition
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 4, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
...and a plesiasaur in Loch Ness...
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
...and Scarlett Johansson is my "friend with benefits"...
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
...the cubs won the world series
Rick Ankiel could throw out Chuck Norris. Easy.
by emrfg8 on Aug 4, 2008 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
...in 2109 with robot umpires skewed toward them...
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Aug 4, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Miles' arm substantially weaker.....
Than Eckstein’s was?
I say no, not substantially.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 4, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, not substantially
But it’s not exactly uplifting to ask if his crappy arm is a lot crappier than Eck’s really crappy arm.
by mojowo11 on Aug 4, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And Miles as more awkward than Eck was
not as surehanded, or as fast to 2B, and I think his range might even be a little less than Eck’s was.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Aug 4, 2008 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two 2Bmen playing SS
I love grit as much as the next person, but grit doesn’t make it okay to play a secondbaseman at shortstop who is overmatched at shortstop. Toughness also does not make such a decision okay.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You made a statement
with no logic, reasoning or evidence voiced to support it. I’m not saying your right or wrong but I can say that statements like that do little to further enlightened conversation in these parts.
And the complaint leveled at Miles is rarely in relation to his arm—it’s his range, which is not very good. To add onto that, Eckstein isn’t a comparison I’d be wanting to make since he set the defensive bar pretty low his last year here. If we’re going to play Miles at SS than there’s no reason for Izturis and Ryan to both be on the roster. It shortens the bench and weakens the team.
by azruavatar on Aug 4, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting post on Dee-Fense by Myron Logan
It’s worth a read and I’d also enjoy input from folks who have looked more deeply into the various defensive metrics that I have.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I looked at those numbers this morning
and some of the outputs look shady most notably Ankiel in center. I haven’t given it more than a once over though.
RZR would appear to love our infield defense but is more temperate on our outfielders.
by azruavatar on Aug 4, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I liked it
Especially that the spreadsheet has a refresh-data feature.
It passes the Rolen test. Glad and a little bit surprised to see Skip rated so highly just on his range—add to it the fact that he leads the Cardinals with outfield assists and his defense has been objectively excellent for us this season, even if he seems to fail to get to balls hit down the line with seemingly enough hangtime on a fairly regular basis.
by liam on Aug 4, 2008 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The spreadsheet is great
I don’t know why more sites don’t do this to update data.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really liked that
it’s really difficult to measure defense. The only concern I had was about the value of a play. For example, he stated that a play by a SS was worth .753 runs. By using the spreadsheet you can see the values for each position. I would have liked to have seen some of the methodology behind that. Other than that, a small quibble, I really thought it was a great read. Thanks, bgh.
by chuckb on Aug 4, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh
It was his arm being questioned in the play last night. It’s hard enough to turn a double play on a ball hit to first, even tougher with a guy like Werth running. It wasn’t Miles’ weak arm.
As for his range, I’ve seem him make two outstanding plays in the last 2-3 weeks, one at SS and one at 2B, both of which he had to range pretty far “away from 1st base”, and make a darn good through.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 4, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I say both
I think both his arm strength and range are lacking for him to play SS on anything but an emergency basis.
The question is not whether or not it was a Web Gem type of play for Miles, but whether or not a good defender would have required the outstandingness to make the same plays. I’m not sure which plays you are speaking of, so I’m not able to answer that question.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Arm strentgth is kind of a moot point
on plays from 2nd to first. Release time matters more than the speed of the ball thrown. Arm strength really only matters on plays deep in the hole when there is a long carry involved and the fielder can’t get their momentum behind the ball.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 4, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not about 1 or 2 plays.......
Yes Miles can play SS if you base it on him having to make 1 or 2 great plays. The issue is over time Miles does not have the ability to play many games and make many plays at SS.
These are major league players they are good. If you put Troy Glaus at SS he could make a few outstading plays that require a bunch of range, but he sure as heck can not do it consistently enough to be called a MLB SS, and that’s the issue people have with Miles
by ICbirdfan on Aug 4, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very well put
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
izturis started Sunday in the doghouse?
I think part of the reason that iz2 didn’t start at ss on Sunday was his terrible at-bat late Saturday- couldn’t get a bunt down in the 8th (ended up w/backwards K). As terrible a hitter as Iz2 is, he doesn’t bunt well, either (only 1 sac this year?!?)
Seems like Schumaker could have successfully sacrificed there…
Anyhow, that doesn’t explain why Ryan didn’t start on Sunday, only my theory on benching izturis.
by baked mcbride on Aug 4, 2008 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In defense of those doing the questioning...
I thought he rainbowed the ball to 1st. A harder throw may have caught Utley and they wouldn’t have scored 4 runs that inning. Yes, Werth was bearing down on him, but the throw did look weak to me.
That does bring up a question that I feel I should know the answer to…
If the SS/2B is making a throw to 1st to complete a DP and the runner doesn’t get down and thus gets hit by the ball, is that interference? Is the batter ruled out?
by ArkansasTravs on Aug 5, 2008 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are Martians on Mars
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Aug 4, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
perspective
Both of those games were eminently winnable – but, when Pujols doesn’t collect a hit in the series and one of our best position players (Ankiel) doesn’t start, can we really be all that surprised or upset that the team had trouble putting runs on the board and lost 2 of 3?
by dhawks on Aug 4, 2008 10:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
You have to be impressed how this ballclub goes out and competes in games every night, especially considering the amount of injuries that have been sustained this season.
As to Albert’s struggles recently, doesn’t it seem like he’s swinging at a lot more pitches out of the strike zone lately? Especially ones that are up in the letters or higher? You can really tell when he’s struggling because he seems to hit a lot of pop-ups, and that’s been happening frequently as of late.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 4, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree
and he hurt us last night by going after a bad pitch on 3-0. He looked very frustrated to me, like he was sick of being walked. I think he’s losing his patience.
Opponents have wised up: they’d rather walk Albert and load the bases, taking a chance of Ludwick or someone else – anybody but Pujols beating them – and it’s paying off.
by ccthemovieman on Aug 4, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why this team is so reluctant to DL
Ankiel when he is so clearly limited in activities is beyond me. Why not have Mather sucker punch him and exacerbate the injury—that’s what they are asking for anyway. Call up Phelps from AAA if all you want is an occasional pinch hitter and let Ankiel actually get well.
by azruavatar on Aug 4, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
DL in general
It’s weird how the Cardinals organization has been reluctant to place some players on the DL (Ankiel, Wellemeyer), and then put other guys on the DL with what seem like out-of-the-blue phantom injuries (Izzy, Barton, Flores) when they aren’t producing.
by dhawks on Aug 4, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Renteria was available
If Edgar Renteria made it through waivers you think the Cardinals would be interested in his services. Detroit needs to start dumping salary if it continues to slid. I am not sure the Dodgers wouldn’t claim him before us but they are even more money restricted right now than we are.
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 4, 2008 11:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i'm beginning to think i wouldn't mind snagging renteria if possible
i mean, i know he’s not exactly young anymore… but i was surprised to find out he’s 32 this year, a couple years younger than i thought for some reason. i’d be willing to take a chance on him at this point. do middle infielders really always age that quickly?
by mattybobo on Aug 4, 2008 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bullpen implosions on the hands of Miles
that’s twice now that Aaron Miles has been unable to turn a crucial double play late in a game that ended up leading to the Cardinals bullpen giving the game back. I was on hand to witness the other (the Pittsburgh game).
We need a SS. Badly. Does anyone have a list of SS playing on bad teams that other teams might be willing to move at the waiver deadline?
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2008 11:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Looked
Not sure about the NL but MLBtraderumors just put up a link about the AL possible waiver wire deals
The two best candidates are Julio Lugo of Boston and Renteria of Detroit.
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 4, 2008 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adam Everett
He’s pretty much Izturis, without a redeeming L/R split.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 years ago
Everett was the best defensive player in the game—not just the best defensive SS, the best player at any position. Now, his offense is atrocious and wouldn’t really add much, if any, to the team. But he’s better than Izturis defensively, and probably still the best defensive SS in the bigs. As I said, his addition doesn’t really add much to the team, but his defense is truly outstanding.
by chuckb on Aug 4, 2008 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was bullish on Everett in the offseason, over Izturis
Just yesterday, I was flipping through the Bill James Handbook and looking at his incredible defense. His offense is horrendous, however, and, as you state, would make him another redundant head on the hydra that is our weak-hitting MIF. His last three years of offensive “production” have been Cesarian (not to be confused with “Ceasarean”).
If the choice is whether or not to bring back Izturis for next year or take a flier on Everett, I’d choose Everett for the reasons you state. His offense is just as bad, but his D is very, very, very good.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everett's defense
Not just good numbers, it’s oh-so-pretty as well. But w/ offense that weak, we’d better be looking for a good hitting 2nd baseman.
by random on Aug 4, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's put Pujols at 2nd.
Finding a first baseman will be much easier than finding a 2b.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Aug 4, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
now that would look really funny
not saying he couldn’t do it, but having a hulk at 2B would look hillarious
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 4, 2008 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm actually saying he couldn't do it
And it’s his size that prevents it.
Plus, he’d hurt himself in about 10 games. That elbow couldn’t take that kind of action, and even if it could his feet, legs and back would really start to bark.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Aug 4, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stop making sense!!
I was enjoying the momentary fantasy
by random on Aug 4, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, Maybe Bobby Crosby of the A's
He makes 08:$3.5M, 09:$5.25M
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 4, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he were available
Id take him. not too terrible of a contract, IMO.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Aug 4, 2008 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you get him, he will take up semi permanent residence on the DL......
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Aug 4, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's worse than league average defensively
and hasn’t had a good offensive year since 2005. And, as Jill pointed out, he’s on the disabled list pretty regularly as well. Not sure he’d be worth what we’d probably give up to get him.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 4, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like Renteria
He put a 125+ OPS in the NL last year for Atlanta. The biggest problem is he is a border line type A free agent so he won’t be free.
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 4, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the other problem
is that the Tigers are still in the AL Central race. I don’t see why they’d trade him unless they bottom out.
by chuckb on Aug 4, 2008 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They might think there in it
But they are out, 7 Games out in the Division behind 2 teams and 8.5 Games back in the Wild Card behind 4 Teams. They are so out of it. Plus, With the way Renteria has been playing this year I doubt he would be that missed.
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 4, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In addition
They did trade Pudge, who is in a similar situation in terms of age, contract, and production.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, how would a waiver deal between us and the Tigers work out?
Looper/Piñeiro are probably the closest things we have to players able to clear waivers. But I think the Tigers would be looking for more of a salary dump than that.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Aug 4, 2008 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can't we do PTBNL
and have it be minor leaguers?
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The biggest problem is the Dodgers
Cause they need a SS too but seem to be awfully cheap of recent. So it might have to be a pretty horrible contract
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 4, 2008 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not to put all the blame one way or the other
but pujols didnt exactly rifle that ball to him.
by UNCDubya on Aug 4, 2008 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Difference
Pujols a) was getting the first sure out, so you can understand being a little careful with that difficult throw and b) was on his knees.
Miles was standing up and wasn’t exactly getting completely upended. He needed to get more on that throw.
by mojowo11 on Aug 4, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and again
i’m not saying it was all Pujols fault. nor am i saying it was all Miles’. Pujols made a great play to stop that ball but my first thought when he threw it was we’ll never turn the double play. it would have taken a hell of a throw, with a guying barreling in on you to turn that.
by UNCDubya on Aug 4, 2008 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is no such thing as a waiver deadline
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True
No deadline for Waiver but you most be on team’s roster by August 31st to be eligible for the playoffs
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 4, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just so we are clear
I was talking to myself.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2008 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
When I saw that I was like “damn, with the name calling HL!” Then I scrolled up to see you were calling yourself an idiot. Is that a loop in the community guidelines?
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha Ditto
I was thinking the same thing, I was like that is a little harsh than scrolled up. Oh… He is talking to him self
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 4, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless you DL a player
who was on the roster before the 31st and replace him with the player you picked up on waivers.
So there’s no real waiver deadline, given a creative enough medical staff or a disgraced figure skater’s ex-husband.
by liam on Aug 4, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gasp!
Too soon?
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are about 8,000,000 exceptions to that rule
k-rod being the most notorious.
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Aug 4, 2008 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That double play not being turned
was due to Utley’s speed and Garcia getting in the way of the throw and not allowing Albert to get full extension.
I’m dumbfounded that you’re actually blaming Miles on this one..
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Aug 4, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Utley beat it by half a step
it is not unreasonable to believe that a guy with an arm debatable for 2B is the reason it wasn’t turned from SS.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A quicker throw and Pujols isn't in position to take the throw
He fielded the ball and threw to second all from one knee. He then had to get up, find the bag and be ready for the throw for a bang, bang play. I was actually surprised he took the throw from Miles in the first place and even more surprised he was there in time for the throw he received. Garcia was there, it probably should have been his play.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Aug 4, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes he was
Pujols was at the bag, waiting. He had FULL extension of his arm as well. Garcia was hovering but didn’t interfere. I just burnt the game to DVD 20 minutes ago and rewatched it to see if I was being unfair to Miles. Nope. He jumps sideways towards LF, throws his legs all over the place to avoid the slide and does that ‘heave’ of a throw he always does. It was basically a mirror image of his turn at 2B that was botched, except this time he actually threw the ball instead of falling down for no reason.
He should never play SS. He’s adequate defensively at 2B and his bat (though wearing down) warrants playing time there. But having him at SS makes no sense.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, I just watched it again too
And I’ll agree on you’re assessment of Miles throw. He did step sideways and threw a bit of a lollipop to first.
But here’s two things I noticed:
What was he supposed to do on the throw? If he doesn’t side step the baserunner takes him out. He took a wide line straight at Miles and was intent taking him out of the play. He didn’t go in high or anything, but he went at Miles’ feet forcing him to sidestep. Granted, he doesn’t have the strongest arm, but the sidestep was necessary in getting any throw off.
Second. The throw by Pujols was almost as weak as Miles’. It had an arc in the middle of it and took a long time to get to second. This was caused by Pujols throwing from his knees, which was necessary.
The way I see it, it was an extremely tough double play to turn. Not at all routine and not at all something that gets turned very often. If Pujols was lefthanded, I think the play is easier, just like if Miles had Iz2’s arm it would have been easier, but not a given. Utley was bustin’ it down the line and the runner going to second did his job in breaking up the play. Great hustle from the Phils.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Aug 4, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can't make Albert Pujols lefthanded
by filling out the lineup card.
You can put a better SS with a better arm in that position by doing so.
That is my point. Izturis’ natural ability (such as it is) makes that play.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2008 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regardless, It isn't Miles fault
It is Izturis fault for being such a poor hitter
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 4, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
Miles didn’t turn the DP because Izturis uses a nerf bat
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then too bad we can't DH for him.
Because with Iztruis, you either go with defense or offense (which means no Iztruis).
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Aug 4, 2008 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Apparently
the tantrum continues today.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I went back and looked at it
Garcia was almost in the way, but Pujols’ was still extended and had the ball in his glove. At least that is what it looked like a few minutes ago when I went back and looked at it.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 4, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't want Lugo
Trust me on that one – I’ve seen almost all the Red Sox and Cardinals game this year and Lugo is brutal – a real loser. He’s something like 1-for-56 with runners in scoring position and the game within three runs. He also had close to 20 errors. You don’t want Lugo!!!!!
by ccthemovieman on Aug 4, 2008 11:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
True
But he was also a pretty good player for them last year in their run to a World Series title. A change of scenery might do him some good. The problem is that his contract is atrocious and extends beyond this year. Unless the Sox pick up 2/3 of his remaining deal and take a box of Joe Mather’s splintered bats in return, I don’t think he’s worth getting simply for salary reasons.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Aug 4, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brian Barden
Id like to see Brian Barden come up and Brendon Ryan get sent down, Itzy should NEVER EVER get to bat, He’s a late inning defensive guy ONLY. Barden may not hit like he is in the minors but he CANT be any worse than Itzy. Itzy is completely useless with a bat. Itzys nickname should be ‘Itzy The Rally Killer’.
JBooth
by JBooth on Aug 4, 2008 2:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
oops-reposting misdirected reply
Izturis began sunday in the tlr’s doghouse
Seems like part of the reason that iz2 didn’t start at ss on Sunday was his terrible at-bat late Saturday- couldn’t get a bunt down in the 8th (ended up w/backwards K). As terrible a hitter as Iz2 is, he doesn’t bunt well, either (only 1 sac this year?!?)
Seems like Schumaker could have successfully sacrificed there…
Anyhow, that doesn’t explain why Ryan didn’t start on Sunday, only my theory on benching izturis.
by baked mcbride on Aug 4, 2008 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to see Barden, too
but it won’t happen because of the olympics, unfortunately.
I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps.
by madding on Aug 4, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very few Sox fans
including me, want Lugo back next year. They (and I) prefer the young Jed Lowrie. As a Cardinal fan first and foremost, I would be sick to have the Redbirds pick up this loser. Hopefully, St. Louis can figure out what to do with their middle infield by next year. Frankly, all this constant switching is not good, IMO. Let’s have some stability up the middle. We might have to spend some money or make a few trades and that doesn’t seem to be the way the Cards (and many people here) want to go. Staying the status quo, though, many times means you are losing ground (to those who are aggressively going after talent, like our division rivals.)
What do you see the Cards doing in the off season? Anything?
by ccthemovieman on Aug 4, 2008 2:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Offseason
The team will re-sign Grit Miles, a TLR fave, due to his production this year, which is likely unsustainable. They will refuse to accept Adam Kennedy as sunk cost and bring him back after unsuccessfully attempting to trade him. This will give us the two-headed, light-hitting platoon of AK/Miles, but without Miles’s redeeming production from this year. As much as I’d like to see them cut Miles loose and DFA Kennedy in favor of pursuing Orlando Hudson, that will never happen and would be a complete about-face on secondbase philosophy. Hudson’s defense is tailor-made for Duncan’s pitch-to-contact philosphy, he hits for pop, and Hudson has tremendous on-base skills and would be a wonderful #2 hitter for us. He would be entering his age 31 season, and would likely be seeking a 4- or 5-year deal, which is the most disqualifying aspect of pursuing him.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd take Lugo
in a second
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Aug 4, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
$10M for an OPS that is somewhere between Miles and Kennedy this year (but roughly equal to Miles’s career OPS)? Sure, he could have Renteria syndrome, but why take the risk unless Boston is paying 7/10 of his salary?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
-1
....my quick smells like french toast...
by mstreeter06 on Aug 4, 2008 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In emeny territory...
I made it to chicago. I picked up most of the good parts of the game. I got 550 up till about mile 200 on 55.(past springfield.) No wonder they call it the big 550. Wow thats far… Then I lost it with Welley pitching in the 6th and the cardinals leading 2-1.
I then picked up AM 1000 around chicago which had the ESPN broadcast. We were losing then in the 8th. Sounds like ludwick missed his pitch. Mather and Big Miles seemed to be overmatched there in the 9th. But hey…thier rookies. And not only rookies, but rookies who hasn’t played much. Good to hear Ankiel come through in the 9th after striking out the other night..
The ESPN radio broadcast while no Shannon and Rooney, is much better than the ESPN television Broadcast. (which Shannon was ripping at the start of the game.)
Oh well. Off to explore chicago. Im turn between trying to catch the Cardinal@Cubs game on friday or seeing Rancid.. Rancid would be much much cheaper im sure.
by Evilfrog on Aug 4, 2008 5:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's nothing
KMOX comes in here in Austin, TX on a clear day. part of why people were as pissed as they were about the move to 550
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Aug 4, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On clear nights,
I can get KMOX here in Charlotte, NC. Listened to a handful of games on there before the move, and I have to wait for an ESPN broadcast to get them.
by fuegophil on Aug 4, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gameday Audio
took the sting out of the move a bit (at least for me). Just prior to the Internet Age, when I moved out of the Cards’ radio market the ole’ Blowtorch was nice to have in the middle of the country. But now, Gameday Audio is a viable replacement. Not an exact replacement, since Gameday Audio is a subscription service. I did miss it back when the Blues moved away from KMOX though.
by skcabrozar on Aug 4, 2008 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i have xm in my car
but i no longer subscribe to it. I was going to renew it for the trip so I can listen to it on the internet.(Company is paying for my rental.) But a guy I work with has XM so he could listen to cubs games. And apparently he says you can’t listen to the games on the internet.
by Evilfrog on Aug 4, 2008 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be one of those pissed off people in Austin (sigh)
Used to have a big old loop antenna rigged on the side of the house. Never missed a game. Did the same thing out in Colorado, too, many years ago.
by random on Aug 4, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i swear Tony puts Mini Me at SS just to F with us
i’m really glad you said he has no business playing SS Lboros. my screams have rightly gone ignored by the club. (why would they listen to an unemployed loser who blogs from his mommy’s basement?) here’s hoping your words get some results.
i’m having a hard time getting over last nights loss. it was right there for them to win it. i mean one better placed pitch here, one seeing eye single there & it’s a winner. hearing Russ say he had only one of his pitches working really makes you wonder why Tony left him in to face Victorino? i get why he came in to face Pat Da Bat, but he should have had IZZY or FRANK up as well ready to come in had Russ not ended the inning. Tony blames himself for not having IZZY ready, & you really gotta wonder what he was thinking. i mean he’s always thinking ahead 3 or 4 moves, so the fact that he didn’t have IZZY ready really has to cause us to wonder just what he was thinking. it’s really out of character isn’t it?
i hammered home last night the fact that Stav Infection & Bombs at bats looked horrible & were do in part because of bad coaching. namely the “hitting coach” Hal’s lack of properly preparing the kids to face Lidge’s junk. i’m not going to rehash that, but something about those at bats does give me hope. Rick ended Saturday night’s game in the same fashion by looking helpless at the plate when Lidge threw the junk. BUT last night when he faced him again he was ready for it, actually spit on a couple of them. and hit a hanger over Ryan’s head that skipped into foul territory and really got our hopes up that the Cards could pull a rabbit out of the hat & win that game. now that Stav & Bombs have seen the junk & faced it in a high pressure situation, i’m hopeful that they will be more prepared for it, just like Rick was, if they are ever given the opportunity to face Lidge again. maybe i’m wrong & the only way to be prepared for his junk is to actually see it for yourself. i hope so.
i dont know about you all, but i needed this off day. i know the Cards sure did. here’s hoping they can take care of business & finally win a series at home vs the Beach Boys before heading up north for a windy city showdown this upcoming weekend. have a good one y’all.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Aug 4, 2008 6:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Remember back to the playoffs between Houston and St. Louis
The year of the home run.
The Cardinal hitters saw Lidge so often in that series that a few of them got really good against him. I remember watching that series and noting how well guy like Mabry and Pujols and Edmonds were starting to see the ball really well and were taking better and better at bats against him. And the then big inning happened down in Houston which we all remember.
The next year, again the Cards saw a ton of Lidge and I noticed another guy who seemed to really get a handle on facing Lidge and you saw him get a hit last night. Aaron Miles. I don’t know what his numbers say, but I’d be willing to bet he’s got pretty good numbers against Lidge. Not anything for power, but against LIdge, you’re always looking to keep him out there long enough to make the wrong mistake to the wrong guy.
The problem now is that he hardly faces the Cardinals anymore since he’s been traded to Philly. This is a strange series in that it’s the third one against the Phils this year. Has that ever happened where we played 3 regular season series against a non-divisional team since the change in scheduling?
Anyway, right now, I’d say I have the most faith in Pujols, Miles and Molina when facing Lidge. Obviously, Glaus see’s him pretty well, but I’m not sure what type of history he has in seeing him. I’m not completely sold on Ankiel just yet, but he is definately learning.
But here’s the big thing. It really doesn’t matter since the only time we’ll see him again is in the playoffs. Give our guys a long series against Lidge and I think you’d see the same type of improvement I saw a few years ago. True closers like Lidge are tough since they usually come into games spitting hot lava (call back humor from earlier in the thread), and the only thing that gives you any type of advantage is experience against that particular closer.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Aug 4, 2008 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Scheduling
I’m pretty sure that we played 3 series against Colorado last year – 2 in StL, 1 in Denver. I remember thinking it was weird last year.
by TNTinCO on Aug 4, 2008 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Miles vs. Lidge career
3-11, 1 2B, 3 RBI, .273/.273/.364/.637
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2004 NLCS
In that 2004 series, however, Lidge pitched A LOT of innings and was as dominant as I have ever seen a relief pitcher. Seeing him often in that series did not help. He was almost literally unhittable. At the time I thought the Cards winning that series in the face of performances like Beltran’s and Lidge’s was awfully impressive. I still do.
Lidge did not pitch in games one and two, Cardinal wins in StL. Or in game 7.
Game 3
2 inn/1 hit/1BB/5 Ks/31 of 42 pitches were strikes. Save.
Game 4
2 inn/0 hits/1 BB/2 Ks/ 18 of 26 pitches were strikes. Save.
Game 5
1 inn/0 hits/0 BB/2 Ks/7 of 9 pitches were strikes. Win (entered a tie game).
Game 6
3 inn/0 hits/0 BB/5 Ks/25 of 32 pitches were strikes. No decision. Edmonds bomb later in game.
Total
4 games/8 inn/1 hit/2 BB/14 Ks. 2 saves, 1 win.
by Youneverknow on Aug 4, 2008 8:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Including last night...
Miles is 3 for 11 against Lidge. 1 double. 3 RBI. No walks. 2 ks.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Aug 4, 2008 6:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
not bad
And looking at those numbers, since 2006 (which was when he became a Cardinal and started seeing Lidge more often….his only other times facing him was in 2004 as a Rockie) he’s 3 for 9 with all those numbers and only 1 strikeout.
Granted small sample size and all, but it’s not like you get a ton of at bats against a closer which makes them all that much tougher to figure out.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Aug 4, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A shit, should have looked down before re-posting something, ugh
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahem
*Ah shit
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What if Miles would of scored last night?
I doubt he would of been the villain today.
by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 4, 2008 7:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Miles isn't the villian
before coming to St Louis he had played 1 game at SS, right? He is a 2B. If only Tony would just go ahead and make him the everyday 2B. He doesn’t try putting Izturis at 2B. Why do we need 3 shortstops and 3 second basemen?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Aug 4, 2008 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Manny Parra and Prince Fielder fought in the dugout in Cincy
6-2 Reds
2-0 Astros over Cubs after 5 in a rain delay…perfection
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 9:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
haha
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Aug 4, 2008 9:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
what in the world?
Prince came off as a major punk. He jacked Parra in the face.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2008 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
showed it again
para sits there dazed and fielder looked like an animal
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Aug 4, 2008 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No idea what that was all about
All I’ve got is baseball tonight, they haven’t commented on what started it…
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i have some ideas
but dont want to insuate..
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Aug 4, 2008 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Be like Prince had a beef after all
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Aug 5, 2008 5:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Para and Fielder went at it in Brew Crew dugout tonight
took half the team to restrain Fielder…he was gonna eat him…this was more than a shove he really goes after him…wonder what para said?
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Aug 4, 2008 9:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"he was gonna eat him"
Maybe Fielder was imagining Parra as a Caesar salad
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 9:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brett Favre traded
to either Miami or Minnesota.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2008 9:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
no it was to the cards pen
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Aug 4, 2008 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where'd you hear that?
I hope for his sake it’s Miami…it would be like easing himself into retirement
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rumors coming
from Packers website.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2008 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hrmph
I don’t see it, all I saw was a bunch of reporters getting ready for a news conference that never happened. I’ll take your word for it, maybe when I wake up tomorrow morning there will be more info.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
they came out and cancelled the presser.
The reporters were saying stuff like “traded to Miami or Minny’ and ‘got draft picks back’.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2008 9:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ESPN would have stopped everything for that
..Im a bears fan id give up a #1 pick for Favre..oh ya
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Aug 4, 2008 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
da bearsss
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 5, 2008 2:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope where ever he goes.....
They don’t make the playoffs.
I’ve never been a “fan” of Brett’s, per se, but I’ve always respected him. He’s come off as a major punk in this deal though.
by SoonerfanTU on Aug 4, 2008 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carpenter
Anyone else glad to see Carps picture up on www.stlcardinals.com in the next game box? I’ve been missing that for a long time.
by brindled on Aug 4, 2008 11:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cubs/Astros to resume at 10:20 CDT
blah…
I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps.
by madding on Aug 4, 2008 11:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Boooo
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
boo said the beautiful man
haha..one night i watched a ton of those on youtube
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Aug 4, 2008 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hell of a storm here in chicagoland
trees down and power outtages all over. Reported 70-80 mph winds.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Aug 4, 2008 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How often do y'all get that kind of weather up there?
It’s pretty commonplace down here, especially in Alabama (where I grew up) in late fall and early spring.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
70 to 80 mph winds?
Almost never. That said, there’ve been suburban tornados I think twice in the last 3 years.
by sdrone on Aug 5, 2008 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But they must get this Cubs late inning
rally at home in. It MUST HAPPEN!
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 4, 2008 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
first time the tornado sirens have gone off
since I’ve lived here… other than last august when I was in an office building, there was a tornado warning. this storm had more lightning than almost any I’ve experienced. very loudass storm
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 5, 2008 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wally Bell almost got some guys killed
tonight trying to get the Cubs game in during the storm. Lance Berkman finally had enough and left the field in protest.
by Hardcore Legend on Aug 5, 2008 12:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Fat Elvis for Commissioner
eh, that’s just dumb.
I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps.
by madding on Aug 5, 2008 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pic in the Trib from last nights game.
http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/media/photo/2008-08/41432973.jpg
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on Aug 5, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ned yost
said that families fight and if your neighbors fight its rude for you to ask what happened…soryr ned thats the role of the press when its caught on national tv…
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Aug 5, 2008 2:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If the Brewers fail to make the playoffs
Ned Yost is toast. They would have done themselves a favor by firing this guy back in May..it’s too bad Izzy let him off the hook.
by KYCards on Aug 5, 2008 2:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Too bad for them
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on Aug 5, 2008 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think less and less of Yost
Fielder isn’t the only one who looks like a jackass
by random on Aug 5, 2008 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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