Viva El Birdos: An SB Nation Community

Navigation: Jump to content areas:



Around SBN: Rickey Henderson Coming Back to A's? Bar-right-arrows



live n learn

rest in peace, skip caray. he was neither as beloved nor as colorful as his father, but i came to like his dry approach quite a bit.

ryan ludwick’s beating himself up for missing that fastball from ryan madson with the bases loaded and two down in the 8th. i went back and looked again, then looked at it on gameday, and he’s right --- you couldn’t have asked for a juicier pitch, belt high and over the heart of the plate. victorino took a similar pitch out of the yard for the game-deciding homer; ludwick, overanxious, yanked his into a DP. right guy, right situation; he just didn’t come through.

you could say the same thing of springer in the top half of the inning. i wasn’t near my laptop and don’t know what the real-time reaction was like on the game thread, but personally i was pleasantly surprised that la russa went to springer there instead of franklin. tony doesn’t like to vary from his patterns, and he particularly doesn’t like to pass over one of his pet veterans and give that guy’s normal job to somebody else --- even to another vet. 8th inning, right-handed hitter ---- that’s ryan franklin’s job, and that’s who tony usually push-buttons into the game. franklin had been warming up earlier in the inning and was ready to go. but, refreshingly, TLR eschewed the rote maneuver and gave the ball to springer, who had gotten burrell out in all 7 of their previous career confrontations, 5 times via the strikeout. couldn’t ask for a better matchup. tony’s second-guessing himself in the paper this morning, saying he shouldn’t have asked springer to pitch for a 3rd consecutive day, but that’s just the manager trying to take the heat off a player who failed. the last time springer pitched 3 consecutive days, in boston june 20 through 22, he threw a shutout inning each day; the only time he threw 3 straight days last year (june 16 through 18, vs oakland and kc) he got the exact same result, a scoreless inning each day. his pitch count in saturday night’s game was only 9, far from a wearying total. and in springer’s 12 previous appearances this season on 0 days of rest, he had yielded a .222 / .300 / .222 line to opposing batters, with only 1 run scoring against him. la russa had ample reason to believe that springer was up to this assignment. right guy, right situation . . . .

stavinoha and mather decidedly were not the right guys in the bottom of the 9th, with the tying run at 3d; putty in lidge’s hands. that’s part of the price you pay with a young team --- from time to time you have to put guys in situations they are simply not equipped to handle, and occasionally those occasions come with a game on the line. those poor dudes swung at lidge’s slider 5 times and never made contact --- not even a foul ball. no disgrace in it; normal part of the learning process. we can hope they take better at-bats next time in that situation, learn to recognize the slider a little bit better. but they can’t take last night’s terrible at-bats over again. they’re in the books.

to cycle back to ludwick’s at-bat for just a second: his standard clutch stats are very good. before last night he had a .311 / .395 / .519 overall line with RISP and a .291 / .409 / .545 line with RISP and 2 outs. and according to BR, he’s got a .973 ops in high-leverage situations, with "high leverage" defined as a leverage index of 1.5 or higher. but in what we might call super-high-leverage situations --- LI of 3.0 or higher --- ludwick has rarely come through: after last night he’s 4 for 21 with 1 homer, 2 doubles, and an intentional walk, for an overall line of .190 / .227 / .429. he’s struck out in 8 of the 21 at-bats. i’m not citing these figures in an attempt to prove anything, just to be clear about this; i’m not suggesting the ludwick’s a choker. a sample that small doesn’t mean anything to begin with, and you’d expect a hitter’s stats to be poor in those situations because in high-leverage at-bats the other team usually has one of its best relievers on the mound. just curious, that’s all; ludwick is still an inexperienced big-leaguer (hunter pence has nearly as many at-bats) and even more inexperienced as a Big Time Hitter. he told rick hummel his "hands released a little early," which is a polite way of saying he overswung --- he took a jumpy swing. this, too, can be chalked up to the cardinals’ learning curve in 2008.

if there’s one thing i’m annoyed about, it’s that 3-6-3 they didn’t convert on chase utley right before the phils’ clinching rally. izturis or ryan might have turned it, and one of those guys should have been in the game. hell, one of them should have started --- miles has no business playing ss with those two on the team. i don’t want to turn this into a miles-bashing thread, because we’d all have to admit he’s been very good this year --- worth the money they’re paying him. whether or not his performance is sustainable (and it almost surely isn’t), he’s the only st louis middle infielder who’s hit worth a damn this year; he’s hit as well as eckstein did in his best seasons here, and for a fraction of the cost. but his bat still isn’t enough of an asset to overcome the cost of his substandard defense at ss. last night was his 18th start of the year at the position, and that’s 18 too many.

did that cost the cardinals the game? absolutely not; far from it. i only mention it because it’s the only thing within their control that they could have done differently.

if you’re looking for some good news, todd wellemeyer showed some encouraging signs last night ---- best performance in the last 2 months, imho. he induced 11 swinging strikes, his highest total since june 5 (when the elbow first barked) and his second consecutive game in double digits (he got 10 swinging strikes last time out); 5 of the misses last night came off his slider. the colonel has thrown at least 6 innings in 4 of his last 5 starts; his game score last night, 62, was his best in over a month and the second straight time he has topped 50. if he can get more comfortable out there at the same time that carp and (soon) wainwright come back to the rotation, the cards still might make this interesting.

and here’s a little more happy spin (don’t know what’s gotten into me this morning): since wainwright and wellemeyers’ troubles began, back in the first week of june, the cards have played exactly .500 --- 26 wins, 26 losses, with identical runs for / against totals (253). they’ve lost 2.5 games to the cubs in the standings, and 4 games to the brewers. given that they’ve been missing (literally or figuratively) their two best pitchers during those two months, we couldn’t realistically have asked for better results. of course, if not for the constant late-inning meltdowns the last couple of months, the cardinals would have achieved better. . . . . .

let's just not go there.

0 recs | Comment 235 comments | Add your comment

Story-email Email | Print |

Comments

Display:

Skip Caray

Spent 6 years on the East Coast before the web existed. It was a treat then to catch the Cards v. Braves on TBS. Always enjoyed listening to the STL native Skip Caray. Having listened to his father call Cards games as a child, it took a while getting used to the difference in delivery between father and son. But I grew to really enjoy Skip. He never got in the way of the game. He was there to watch the game with you rather than conduct some sort of talk show that happened to be occurring during a baseball game telecast ala Dan and Al. Skip sometimes wouldn’t say a thing for 20 seconds or so just letting the game happen then recap the action. What underlies the ability to let the game come first is the lack of an ego and the confidence to allow the game come first. You just don’t see that too often in broadcasters. I’ll miss Skip.

by jjray on Aug 4, 2008 8:50 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

So will I...

Once upon a time, Skip broadcast St. Louis Hawks games with Jack Buck… the kicker was, one announcer would do the play-by-play when the Hawks had the ball, and the other guy would take over when the Hawks’ opponent had the ball! They didn’t stick with that arrangement for long, and Skip took over the PBP duties for the Hawks, moving to Atlanta with the franchise.

I always thought Skip combined his father’s enthusiasm with Jack’s dry wit… back when the Braves were B-A-D, Skip once said, “If you promise to come back and watch the movie in 45 minutes, now would probably be a good time to walk the dog.” He’ll be missed…

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Aug 4, 2008 11:03 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

a Skip Carey-ism I remember

...he was doing a very early start Thursday afternoon game, the kind they used to call a “businessman’s special.” One time when he mentioned that, he then segued, saying (close paraphrase)... “and we really do see quite a few businessmen out here today, many of them here with their… daughters.”

Followed by at least 15 seconds of silence. And you could just sense that Skip’s throat was so stuck from trying not to laugh (at his own joke) that he couldn’t talk. And Pete Van W, or Ernie, or whoever was beside him was probably in the same condition and could not bale him out.

He was such a nice broadcaster, in so many ways, just like the two of you above have cited. But the thing I think I appreciated the most was the subtle and witty underbelly that punctuated his style.

Requiescat.

by the Tewk on Aug 4, 2008 4:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I remember those days..

back when TBS and WGN were the only “superstations”. I watched the Braves quite a bit since they were the only baseball on in the evenings. Got my wife interested even. When the Braves started doing better in the early ‘90’s, we kind of wished they’d suck again because the broadcasts, and especially Skip were so much funnier when they consistently lost.

by ArkansasTravs on Aug 5, 2008 1:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Welley

If I recall correctly, the graphs from that post however many days ago about Wellemeyer showed that it took him a few starts (3? 4?) to really settle in and get a handle on his pitches. After that, his pitches were more consistent(ly good) and he was more effective for a stretch of 3-5 starts before his injury. I suppose it’s possible that he’s starting to hit that stride again after the elbow thing…that would mean nice things for the coming Welley weeks.

by mojowo11 on Aug 4, 2008 9:11 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Yup yup

I saw the same thing from the graphs in that post the other day (great post by the way, can we get those for all the Cardinal pitchers?)—it seemed to take him around 5 consecutive starts from the beginning of the year to be really effective with his velocity and movement. His last two starts were the 6th and 7th consecutive starts since the elbow injury, and as LB pointed out in the post, he’s induced swinging strikes in those starts at the same rate that he did for his 8 start run in May. It might have something to do with having just the right amount of arm fatigue to be able to control his pitches, or perhaps he’s just a creature of habit and needs to have a set routine of off day throwing and pre-game bullpen sessions in order to get things right.

Regardless, if the club gets the May version of Welley back, along with the return of Carpenter and the imminent return of Wainwright, I really like our chances since we’ll be able to bolster the bullpen, hopefully, via Memphis and by dropping a starter in the rotation. Someone brought up skipping Piniero in the rotation this week in a thread from last weekend, I think that’s a good idea considering the way things end up with the off day today.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 4, 2008 9:47 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

A shame

It’s too bad that the club squandered such effective starts from Looper and Wellemeyer. It’d have been nice to win at least one of those.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 10:06 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Han Solo

Solo homers this weekend: 5
Season Solo HR : 63.93, up .60% from July 31st.

I am only updating the running analysis that has pregressed over the season. I don’t think this contributed to our loss last night at all.

Kudos for TLR for bringing in Springer, even if it didn’t work out in the end. Hopefully we will be seeing more of Russ in the 8th inning.

Carp on Tuesday, versus Manny & Co. Should be a doozie.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 9:45 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

I liked the Springer move,

but I wish La Russa could manage three innings using fewer than 5 relievers. This contributes to the pen’s workload when everyone in the bullpen warms up everyday.

by azruavatar on Aug 4, 2008 9:53 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

That it does

I wondered why TLR pulled the Colonel when he did. Yes, he walked a batter, bringing the tying run to the plate, but I thought that he could have stayed in for one more batter, unless TLR really wanted Victorino vs. a lefty over the strikeout-prone Jenkins vs. Wellemeyer. Villone retires Victorino and then promptly walks the LHB, which then requires McClellan in the 7th as opposed to the 8th.

Both McClellan and Garcia would seem to be prime candidates for pitching a full late inning, especially given their recent pasts as starters.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 10:04 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

McClellan's "recent" past as a starter is over three seasons ago........

He relieved last year, and missed the year before, and missed the year before that. He was a starter the year before that…........

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Aug 4, 2008 12:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Right

The second-to-last season he played during, he started. Last season was his first in relief. It would therefore follow that his repertoire would translate as being roughly equally effective versus lefties and righties. In fact, McClellan has been better versus lefties this year than righties just as Garcia has been better against righties than lefties. This would seem to make leaving either pitcher in for an entire inning more plausible since they can retire batters from both sides of the plate, unlike, say, Villone.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 12:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I think he has starter stuff, and yes he gets lefthanders out well too.

I was just pointing out that he hasn’t been starting in the “recent” past—more like the distant past.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Aug 4, 2008 1:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I've never liked the parade of 1000 relievers

I agree w/ azru that there is an additional cost in workload with the extra warm ups. More than anything, though, it irritates me when the game stops each time a pitching change is made within an inning for a questionable matchup advantage.

by random on Aug 4, 2008 12:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Although

Just before Ludwick homered, on a 3-0 count Albert swung at ball four and then made an out on the next pitch. I don’t assume Ludwick would have received the exact same pitch he homered on if Albert had been on base, but . . . he might have. Happy as I was with Ludwick’s homer, I lamented not having a runner on first when he hit it.

Tough series for Pujols.

by Youneverknow on Aug 4, 2008 10:12 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Good thing

we shored up that bullpen before the deadline.

"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson

by Bahamaredbird on Aug 4, 2008 9:58 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

That's shortsighted...

If we have Will Ohman in the bullpen last night, does that really change anything about the situation? He basically would have pitched in place of Garcia, Springer still comes in and gives up a single to Burrell and a homer to Victorino, we’re just down only two runs instead of three, but still down. That only increases our win percentage about 5%, and that’s if he gets the hitter out that Garcia couldn’t, which you can’t say for sure.

You’re going to lose games occasionally, especially when your club has trouble scoring more than 2 runs off of the likes of Joe Blanton and Brett Myers. If the offense scores on it’s average on both Saturday and Sunday, we probably win both games.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 4, 2008 10:12 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

+1

I think that Garcia is a bullpen upgrade. And, if we pull Perez back up, that will be another arm to bolster the ‘pen.

Who are we going to bring into the 8th inning that has had a better two seasons that Russ Springer?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 10:15 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

exactly

it’s not as if arthur rhodes would have turned that loss into a win. nor will ohman, nor even brian fuentes.

by lboros on Aug 4, 2008 10:19 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I guess we'll never know

"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson

by Bahamaredbird on Aug 4, 2008 10:23 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Yeah

Arthur Rhodes would’ve really shored up that bullpen!

by houstoncardinal on Aug 4, 2008 10:24 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

boring argument

i guess we’ll never know. to quote the great fats waller, “One never knows, do one?”

How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor

by themanthemyth on Aug 4, 2008 10:50 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I was also encouraged

by the fact that Tony, twice this weekend, used Garcia in high leverage situations facing the Phils’ two best lefties—Utley and Howard.

by houstoncardinal on Aug 4, 2008 10:23 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

A question

Last night’s game was the only one that I got to watch—I listened to the other two on the radio. Were we playing Howard as deep as we were on his single last night every PA or just late in the game with the tying run on first, to try and prevent that runner from scoring?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 10:46 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I didn't see it

I’m not going to say why. In being a good husband, I yielded the TV to my wife and missed us blowing the game. So much for being a good husband!

by houstoncardinal on Aug 4, 2008 10:49 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I liked that, too

And thought LaRussa might be bringing in Garcia in part to give him that high pressure MLB experience. I think that may indicate something of LaRussa’s intentions on bullpen roles for the last part of the season. Hope so, anyway.

by random on Aug 4, 2008 12:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

No no no

La Russa hates rookies!

My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

by Alxfritz on Aug 4, 2008 12:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

made me laugh there, Alex

That Tony hate rooks is definitely an article of faith for many…despite evidence to the contrary. I am concerned, and I’ll bet La Russa is too, about relying on arms that are way past their previous highest IP marks.

I think one of the reasons Wainwright worked out so well two years ago was that he went starter to reliever and was not out there pitching on fumes in the 5th inning, hanging the curve, and getting lit up. Garcia pitched 103 innings in 2007 & is at 116 IP now.

by random on Aug 4, 2008 12:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I don't know about you guys and gals

but I can’t get enough of hearing about the trade deadline!!!

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 4, 2008 6:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Nobody we wanted left

It would be one thing if some bullpen help moved but we just didn’t pull the trigger. The problem was nobody moved but Rhodes who I watched blow a game before the deadline. He wasn’t that cheap either for what he is really.

by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 4, 2008 7:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Last night...

It did look like Springer might have had a fatigued arm last night, since his pitches to both Burrell and Victorino looked to have missed location and been up in the zone. Regardless, he was the best guy for the situation, I don’t think Franklin does any better.

You didn’t address my biggest question about last night’s game though: Why did they pull Wellemeyer when they did? He had only thrown 91 pitches to that point, and certainly didn’t look like he was laboring at all. If he’s able to get them through the 7th with a one run lead, K-Mac could have started the 8th inning, Springer never would have needed to pitch last night, and Izzy might have had his first shot at a high leverage save.

Although the pitch seemed hittable, I’m still not necessarily happy with Ludwick’s AB in the 8th inning though. They seemed to be pitching around Pujols to get to Ludwick, but Madson had just thrown 4 straight balls off the plate, so a little bit of patience might have paid off. If he thought the first pitch was the best pitch he was going to get, I don’t begrudge him for taking a swing at it, but I just don’t think that was the pitch he was looking for or he would have hammered it.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 4, 2008 10:06 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

i don't disagree w/ the call to pull wellemeyer

he was on his 3rd time through the order; he had just given up a homer to utley, and after the walk to burrell there were 2 left-handed hitters due up; a mere single puts the tying run in scoring position. i was glad they played the matchups there.

besides they haven’t let wellemeyer get much past 90 pitches since the elbow problem began, and even before it began he rarely got much past 100. the relievers were reasonably well rested; i thought it made sense to let them take it from there.

by lboros on Aug 4, 2008 10:27 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

That was the pitch he was looking for

It doesn’t get any better than a belt-high fastball over the middle of the plate. He just missed it. I am in no way, shape, or form angry at Luddy for first-pitch swinging there.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 10:57 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

First Pitch Success

He hit a double and a homer on first pitches in his first two ABs.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 10:59 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Exactly

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Aug 4, 2008 11:01 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

But, as was pointed out in an earlier post

he (Luddy) seems to get “over-aggresive” in very high leverage situations. He took a swing at a very hittable pitch, similar to the ones he’d hit hard earlier, but it still looked like an over-anxious swing to me. And, obviously, the results weren’t as good.

by ArkansasTravs on Aug 5, 2008 1:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

+1

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!

by sportsman on Aug 4, 2008 8:47 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I could almost understand

using Aaron Miles at SS if he was being put there so that a solid offensive player could play 2b. If we had Jeff Kent of 3-4 years ago, we’re choosing Miles’ offense over Izturis’ or Ryan’s defense. That’s understandable. Playing him at SS so we can use the suck-tastic Adam Kennedy at 2B makes no sense whatsoever. If we’re going to play Miles (and we should, given our alternatives) then we’re choosing good defense and terrible offense at 2b OVER better defense and terrible offense at SS—a more important defensive position. Plus, we’re taking Miles away from where he’s a decent defensive player and putting him at a position where he’s just bad.

Adam Kennedy, if he’s going to remain on the roster, should also remain on the bench. There’s really no way to justify his playing over either Izturis or Ryan—simply b/c his playing forces Miles to SS. Sheesh, one day this weekend Tony had Kennedy in LF!

by houstoncardinal on Aug 4, 2008 10:22 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

No justification

I understand what you are saying HC, but at this point, should Kennedy ever start at secondbase? I would say that he should not. Miles should start at the position from here on out because his defense is less of a liability at second and he has been head and shoulder above the other heads of the MIF hydra in terms of offensive production. There is no player on the roster that justifies displacing Miles at second at this point. He should play there, and only there, with Izturis and Ryan sharing SS duties.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 10:51 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

that was my point

I knew I didn’t make it that well. My point was that Kennedy should never be starting at 2b b/c it puts Miles at SS. Miles should start every day at 2b and it can be either Izturis or Ryan, I don’t really care which, at SS. Kennedy’s as bad offensively as Izturis and Ryan but at least the latter 2 can keep Miles at 2nd. Kennedy can’t even do that.

by houstoncardinal on Aug 4, 2008 11:11 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Ready for another year?

Miles/Kennedy at secondbase in 2009…

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 4, 2008 11:28 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Kennedy's actually

been better than Miles this year if you take +/- at face value. He’s got him by 18 plays, which is around 13 runs and that’s makes up the offensive difference according to EQR or btRuns.

by haltz on Aug 4, 2008 2:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

with the funk that trio (Izturis, Ryan, Kennedy) has been in

and Tony stating I don’t how many times this year that the offense needs to do more , why exactly do they continue to have three players on this team (Izturis, Ryan, Kennedy ) that are absolute liabilities with the bat, and pluses with the glove. You can have a combo of Izturis-Ryan, Izturis-Kennedy, or Ryan-Kennedy and still be able to basically field the same MIF combo. The third one is redundant.

When exactly will they put an end to this and give either Barden or Freese a callup? They can’t exactly be any worse with the bat. Hell , even Hoffpauir might have more pop than those three, and that just might say too much about our MIF.

I know that Barden is on his way to the Olympics, I just think that doing what is best for the Cardinals should be put before the Olympics.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Aug 4, 2008 6:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

agree.........

Easiest thing to do right now is sending Brendan Ryan down. It’s kind of a no brainer as it’s a bit harder to demote/cut Izturis and Kennedy. Izturis is bad with the bat, but Ryan is no better so it’s not really a positive to sit Izturis to get Ryan AB’s.

The Funny think is realistically Kennedy and Ryan are guaranteed to be around next year. I think Miles will be around for sure but the Cards would have to resign him as he has a one year contract. I am not so certain the Card will sign Izturis for another year next year as he is on a one year contract as well.

by ICbirdfan on Aug 5, 2008 10:34 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I agree

the only reason to put Miles at short is if you are going to put someone that can hit at 2B… which we don’t really have (I was hoping it would be Brendan Ryan or someone via trade earlier)

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 4, 2008 3:36 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

no more miles at ss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!

by sportsman on Aug 4, 2008 8:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

I dont know if this was discussed alredy

and forgive me if it was, but durring the game last night the ESPN crew did a thing about the top three players from each franchise ever and last night it was the Cards.

the fans came up with

1. Musial
2. Ozzie
3. Gibby

and the ESPN guys came up with

1. Musial
2. Gibby
3. Brock

now forgive me if im wrong but shouldnt it clearly be

Musial, Hornsby, Gibson?

I mean Brock was pretty good but Hornsby was a freak and at a crappy position.
I mean Hornsby was one of the best hitters ever in the NL much less on our team.
Isnt that something the experts should know, or am I wrong?
I know Brock is a great player and certianly a fan favorite but many people say he is one of the weaker HOFers. i dont know if its true or not but no one could ever think that about Rogers.

I wonder why he gets little respect?
I know Stan doesnt get much national cred for whatever reason, so its fair to assume rogers wouldnt either but he was a great hitter.

I dont know if it was the fact that he played for years here, or because he played so long ago in a different era, or becuase he was a legendary jerk but the guy seems to get no respect. No credit.

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Aug 4, 2008 10:22 AM EDT reply reply   0 recs

Brock wasn't anywhere near the player

Hornsby was. Neither was Ozzie. I’d have to agree—Musial, Hornsby, Gibson.

by houstoncardinal on Aug 4, 2008 10:25 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Consider the source on the Brock pick

There’s not ot much video of Rajah around these days. Plus, espn isn’t exactly known for their attention span.

By the by, (whatever that means)Goold had a blog about it up at the p-d today and he agrees with Stan, Gibby, and Rogers.

My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.

by Alxfritz on Aug 4, 2008 10:29 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

He has Gibby before Rogers?

Sounds fine to me. Gibson was truly special. I also understand (to some degree) ignoring Hornsby in that we are always biased by those we remember. Hornsby played 90 years ago and most at ESPN, and in St. Louis, remember Brock. This biases us so I get it.

by houstoncardinal on Aug 4, 2008 10:31 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Also,

Hornsby wasn’t really given the attention he deserved back in the 1920s due to the Babe Ruth phenomenon.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Aug 4, 2008 11:37 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

once had 450 total bases in a year

2nd all-time to babe ruth. slugged .756 in a season, 9th all-time behind a smattering of bonds, ruth, one year of gehrig. batted .424 on year, 6th all-time. these are just a few single season records, a sample of how ridiculously awesome he was. has anybody at espn ever heard of baseballreference.com? it really sucks how he’s always been overlooked, even in his time.

by mattybobo on Aug 4, 2008 11:58 AM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Hornsby & Zipf's law

I wish we had newspaper content analysis for this kind of issue. I’d love to see reputation quantified and tracked over place and era, but it would be a hell of a lot of work. BTW, I hate knowing more about Rizzuto than I do about Hornsby, and almost nothing about Marion & Stephens.

by random on Aug 4, 2008 1:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply   0 recs

Honest question

If you extend that list, when do we start to see the name “Pujols”?

How do we evaluate a list like this when we have someone like Pujols who’s still playing?

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 4, 2008 10:37 AM EDT to parent up </