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Why this stat?

Like many of you, I read a lot of articles on baseball...I like the stats, I like the info, I like the analysis.

But something has always stuck in my craw, and I thought the VEB community may have the answer:  Why do people always talk about how a player does against a certain team?  In the era of free agency, and teams looking different every year - why does that matter?

I can see if you show stats about a pitcher hitter matchup, vs. L, vs. R, or in ballparks both day and night.  But why is it important that Joe Snuffy hitter is hitting .295  or .175 against a particular team?  Wouldn't a stat above give us more insight?  Aren't stats against an opposing team one of the weaker ones?

Seriously - this always kind of bugged me.  Who can give me an answer - i know we have some journalists who frequent VEB.  Is this an easy way of adding some vanilla flavor to a dry article?  A journalistic crutch?

Or am I way off base and it is hugely important?

0 recs  |  Comment 15 comments

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Always seemed pointless to me

90% of these splits are pretty worthless anyway e.g. remember when Ankiel was better against lefties than righties? People greatly underestimate the sample sizes in regressing these things back to average.

Interestingly enough one of the new splits that has proven itself to some degree is how hitters hit against groundball/flyball pitchers. For example Glaus for one has picked up .060 points of OPS on a groundballer vs. a flyballer on his career and he’s been miserable against flyballers this year.

One of the most intriguing things to me in all of baseball is that the Diamondbacks as a team pick up nearly .200 points of OPS vs. groundballers over flyballers. In 1300/2000 PAs so it’s definitely statistically significant and last year it was .070 points on the year. Seriously.

Cards are pretty even on a team scale but that’s one more piece of info that seems to be getting ignored.

Kosuke Fukudome: $55 million .264 .364 .384
Skip Schumaker: $Free .311 .372 .426

by joker24 on Aug 28, 2008 9:20 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think that...

To go along with how well a certain batter does against a pitcher (or vice versa), a lot of times, it would also be better to see how someone does in a certain ballpark, rather than against a certain team.

by stlfan on Aug 28, 2008 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

doesn't seem to have much value to me

the only thing I can think of, which might make a little difference, is that some teams as a whole pitch guys differently

for example, the Pirates might consistently pitch to Ludwick differently than the Braves, and they might have philosophical reasons for doings so; i.e., one pitching coach is convinced that Luddy can be pitched up and in to get outs, while the other may be convinced that pitching him low and away is the best approach. The reality may be that Luddy does better against one of those than the other. If so, then the BA against a team may have a little bit of relevance.

Okay, this was a stretch, but it’s the best I could come up with.

My first memory of Cardinals baseball is seeing Darrell Porter jump into Bruce Sutter's arms on October 20, 1982!

by 82Special on Aug 28, 2008 9:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Or the Cardinals might pitch differently to Ryan Braun

Trying to blow fastball after fastball by him…middle in…and get KILLED.

by stlfan on Aug 28, 2008 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know...

…Apparently the pitch to get him with is a hanging slider up and in…Maybe they should try that!

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 28, 2008 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only after blowing fastballs by him on the outside corner on the previous two pitches

I can’t figure out why anyone throws him a strike? The man rarely walks, he’s not a good bad ball hitter, so why tempt fate and throw something up there he can square up?

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 28, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really good question

The guy hits bombs like crazy, but doesn’t really know how to work a count yet. The dude is up there to rip away and hit the ball as hard as possible. It seems like you could just pick at corners and just off them and get him out…but I suppose that’s easier said then done.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 28, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well...

It’s not easy to throw good pitches and hit corners…… When pitchers do, they get him out. However when the pitcher does not quite execute and the ball ends up catching more plate Bruan kills it. He is a really good MLB hitter which means he does not miss mistakes that often.

In theory it’s easy but pitchers are not robots and can not continuously hit spots they want to hit.

by ICbirdfan on Aug 28, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um...

…Yeah, that’s what I said…It’s in the last sentence bro.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Aug 29, 2008 12:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've thought about this a lot this year...

I think it’s an extremely meaningless stat. Another stat that I grow weary of hearing is how excellent A. Miles’ batting average is in interleague play… how is that a stat that you can count on translating over from year to year?

I have wondered lately if there is a stat that exists or could be created that would measure a player’s contributions against all of the players that are on that team at that time… Would be cumbersome to calculate, I’m sure… but I’d be more interested if it existed.

by AndyB83 on Aug 28, 2008 1:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

well, to be fair to miles

since the only AL teams we get to play these days are the royals and the tigers, that interleague stat is almost as meaningful as other “versus team fill-in-the-blank” numbers… so that’s something, right?
in other words, i agree with everybody else… this kind of stat is really pretty meaningless.

by mattybobo on Aug 29, 2008 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, journalistic crutch

It’s a time-filler, something to say when you’re not really saying anything at all.

Though I have read a study (can’t find link) that found that English soccer teams that wore red did slightly better than teams than wore “less-aggressive” colors. So, in all honesty, rather than a broadcaster telling us that some guy “absolutely kills the Reds”, they should say, “This guy does slightly better against teams that aren’t wearing red.”

by lightbulb on Aug 28, 2008 2:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I thought the same thing last night during the game

Why put this stat up? Especially in the era of free agency? It means next-to-nothing and is completely arbitrary.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 28, 2008 8:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

all about time filler

aside from teams having team wide strategy there is no really great explanation. annoying piece of stats.

But that's not everywhere. I asked one friend, a lifelong Cardinals fan, a lifelong Cubs hater, a sensitive soul who admits bawling like a baby during Brian's Song, if maybe he could feel glad if the Cubs finally win. After all, it has been a 100 years. He looked at me as if I had asked him if he felt any sympathy at all for Attila the Hun. "I hope they lose for another 100 years," he said. "At least by then, I'll be dead."-espn.com article

by those are cobras, man. on Aug 28, 2008 9:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It really can't even be justified...

few teams are even that consistent, coaches change all the time. The only two pitching staffs that have been consistent over even the last three years (let alone for the times some of these splits cover) are probably the cardinals (pitch to contact), and the twins (stay ahead in the count at all times, keep the pitch count low).

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Aug 28, 2008 10:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

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