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Around SBN: Nevin Shapiro Vows To Bring Down Miami

Are You Ready to be Heartbroken?

So, how's everybody feeling this morning?

Me? Well, I'll tell you. I'm getting awfully damned tired of having to write about deflating losses. Seems like every time I sit down at the 'ole laptop to churn out another post, the Cardinals have just lost a game, usually in some maddening, potentially debilitating way. I'm beginning to think it may, in fact, be a conspiracy against me.

The especially tough thing about last night's loss is that I didn't see it coming. I really didn't. In fact, I actually wrote a preview of the series yesterday over at the Rundown that was positively- dare I say it?- optimistic. I looked at the pitching matchups, and I felt pretty good. The Cards usually knock Sheets around as well as any team in the game, and Wellemeyer has been coming around nicely as of late. I also thought hey, Ryan Braun's still ailing, maybe the Cards can get the best of him for once.

Well, my crystal ball is positively busted.

I certainly took issue with Tony's decision to send Welley back out there with over 100 pitches. With as many off days as the Cardinals have in September, why not take advantage of them? The bullpen was fully rested, yet La Russa chose to send a starter who has had health issues this season back out to pitch another inning with an elevated pitch count. I just don't get it. I'm sure that someone will defend Tony for the decision by citing what the bullpen did when they finally got their chance in the game, and that's fair. I still don't agree with that line of thinking, though. Results be damned. Once again, we see La Russa push a pitcher past where he should reasonably be expected to go, whether it's due to a lack of confidence in the alternatives or simply the 'hero' phenomenon that has been well documented this season by several others around here. I just can't understand the logic here.

Anyhow, it's not important this morning, is it? What is important is that the Cardinals now find themselves standing very, very close to the edge. Four and a half games back of the Brewers for the wild card, tied now with the Metropolitans for second place, with less than 30 games to go. It's certainly still possible for the Cardinals to make the playoffs, of course, but the odds are getting longer and longer all the time.

And so I return to my original question: how do you feel this morning? I opened with it as a bit of a flippant remark, but I also meant it quite sincerely. How does everybody feel about the Cardinals this morning? More importantly, are you starting to consider throwing in the towel?

Many around here, myself most definitely included, have been taking nearly every opportunity to declare the Cards' season over. The slightest bump in the road has elicited cries of "sell, sell!" and laments for our boys in red as they ride on toward the abyss. Myself, I do it largely because one, that just happens to be my nature; I'm always ready to see the bitter romance of the fall, often long before it begins. Two, I do it also, at least a little bit, as a way to try and inoculate myself from the bad times. It almost never works, of course, as I find myself each year hoping for that ten game winning streak with nine games left. Preparing for the worst never seems to ease the sting when the worst comes along.

So, how do we feel today? There are still a handful of days left in August; should Mr. Mo, as he apparently likes to be called, try to swing a deal sending away one of our veteran starters? Is this team still firmly in control of its own destiny, despite what all of those of us so low on faith say?

Sometimes, the numbers and the details just don't matter. What do you think about this Cardinal team we have here, at the end of an August most thought would be utterly meaningless? They've been good and they've been bad. What do they mean to you?

Also, I've got fifty internet dollars to the first person to correctly identify the source of my title today without looking it up. And I'll know if you do, cause I'm magic.

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It's a song lyric

Old song, covered in the 80s by someone else…..that’s as specific as I can get without google.

"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley

by Futility Infielder on Aug 27, 2008 10:29 AM EDT reply actions  

I know

But I googled, so I’ll spare those who want to try to legitimately get it.

by saladdays on Aug 27, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions  

Had to google too

it was bugging me that I couldn’t remember….

"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley

by Futility Infielder on Aug 27, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

A different route

I am not aware of this old song lyric, but now I will go look on my own to check that out, if in fact that is the reference.

Without looking, my answer to RB would have been the Camera Obscura song “Lloyd I’m Not Ready to be Heartbroken.”

Yes, that is random, but judging by RB’s music tastes and broad range in music knowledge, I thought I’d throw the Camera Obscura reference out there.

by Fred Head on Aug 27, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

See below.

Also, it’s “Lloyd, I’m Ready to be Heartbroken.” A reference to the Lloyd Cole and the Commotions song which was, in fact, the source of the title.

Let’s Get Out of This Country is a stunningly good record, by the way.

Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?

by the red baron on Aug 27, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ahhh

The minor error in song title is due to using the top of my head and not the vast resources of the Internet. And I never knew the original reference – I will check it (and the album) out.

by Fred Head on Aug 27, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ready to be heartbroken?

Naw. I was ready at the beginning of the season. That game sucked. But meh. It’s been a great season.

Sending the Colonel back out there was questionable. But it dodn’t matter. We couldn’t push a run across the plate. Ankiel was more of the goat in this one. Please Tony, let him play Center field.

by Evilfrog on Aug 27, 2008 10:30 AM EDT reply actions  

Let him play CF?

He couldn’t handle left field and he sucked hard at the plate. He should be on the bench or the DL.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 27, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

another in a (too) long line of heroes.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 27, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

sorry

If he is healthy enough to play left. He is healthy enough to play Center. He gets better reads in center. If he isn’t healthy enough to play then he needs to be on the DL. Where he can get rest and become healthy enough to play.

by Evilfrog on Aug 27, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that he needs to be on the DL

Something isn’t right

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 27, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is still a lot to play for

TLR will keep this team playing hard until the end because that’s just the way he does things…yes, the odds are long, but who knows what will happen in the last month.

If nothing else, the kids have a lot to play for because really, none of them are guaranteed a job in ’09…with a suddenly productive farm system, and over 30 million of additional payroll available, the Cardinals will have some options going into next season…this is a far better situation then this team faced in the winters of 06 and 07, IMO

by tbell61 on Aug 27, 2008 10:30 AM EDT reply actions  

+1

Gotta keep playing hard.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I Am Trying To Break Your Heart

off of Kicking TV’s was playing as I checked VEB just now.

Not the same as the title, but seemingly as apt.

Get ’em tonight, redbirds. There are only so many nights left.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Aug 27, 2008 10:39 AM EDT reply actions  

Scroll bar.....

States that Rasmus will not be called up this year.

I think that is a good decision. He needs to get healthy, take the winter off, and come back refreshed next year. Hopefully both he and the team realize there is no reason to rush his promotion to the Majors.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 10:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Groan

He needs to be on the MLB roster on Opening Day next season at the latest.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 27, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree.....

He is still young enough that that doesn’t HAVE to happen. For that to happen, he needs to prove he is ready, get healthy, and hope that we move some OF’s in the offseason.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

How is he gonna prove he's ready?

Memphis is almost done, TLR said they wouldn’t call him up in September, and we saw what kind of value having an awesome ST can do for him last season.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 27, 2008 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

winter ball

We don’t need him to prove he’s ready. There are plenty of proven offensive call-ups. let Rasmus fully heal and then get his act together in winter ball.

I don’t understand why people want him up in the bigs so bad. He’ll get his chance. We don’t need a recently-injured-struggling-left-handed-hitting-outfielder, we already have Ankiel.

by abothecardinal on Aug 27, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

His spring was not awesome.....

It was good.

Besides, 6 OF’s hit for a higher average than he did, hig obp was higher than most other OF’s, but not by a ton. I don’t think his walk rate was sustainable either, and Skip and Barton both slugged nearly identically to him.

He had a good spring, but when you have to keep Barton on the roster, and you have to keep Skip there, and you have guys like Ank and Ludwick, what were you suppose to do?

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why again

did we ‘have’ to keep Skip on the roster? He’s had a very nice season, yes, but how is Skip Shumaker an irreplaceable commodity?

Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?

by the red baron on Aug 27, 2008 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are under rating Skip

Skip is a lot better than you give him credit for. Most teams in Baseball would love for him to be on their team.

by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

but just not enough

to offer us anything of value for him or he would already be gone.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 27, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I must have missed that article

that talked about how Mo was offering Skip and there were absolutely no takers. Damn, that sucks that its a proven fact that no one wanted him……

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 27, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I always say

fight sarcasm with sarcasm.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 27, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

We HAD to.....

Because the other option was likely losing him for NOTHING.

Is he irreplaceable? Well…..you tell me, who else is going to be able to put up what he has against righties? And that line, so you don’t have to go look it up is as follows:
.352/.410/.496.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh, god no!

How would we ever have survived without a platoon outfielder? Think of the children.

He plays solid defense, and has had a very nice year. Nothing more. Just because he’s one of Tony’s guys doesn’t make him irreplaceable.

Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?

by the red baron on Aug 27, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

no, but his trade value is as high as it’s going to be, and with the controlled years he has left, it may help more.

if Razzmatazz is sitting here next year after putting up solid numbers this winter, we’ve really got to look towards moving Skip if we can find a “buyer”. His trade stock can only go down…

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Aug 27, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's true.

We may end up getting something much better in trade than we would have otherwise. But to say that we ‘had’ to keep him on the roster for whatever reason just doesn’t make sense to me.

Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?

by the red baron on Aug 27, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

fair enough.

I’ve always contended that Skip’s breakout year was a showcase year to get something for him. Always helps that we have a gluttony of OF in case Colby has some teething issues

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Aug 27, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Answer my question.....

And a platoon against righties is MUCH better than the opposite, considering you face righties probably 75% of the time.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

he needs to prove he’s ready just like Jimenez, right?

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 27, 2008 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

huh?

What does Jimenez have to do with Rasmus?

by abothecardinal on Aug 27, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tony said that Rasmus hasn't 'earned' it

neither have Flores and Jiminez, two guys he promised call-ups to.

Some may say, “We don’t need anymore OF’ers!”. That isn’t true. We replaced Barton with Stavinoha and replaced Rick Ankiel with a zombie. We need help in the OF.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 27, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is 25% off the season left.

Recent memory recalls many examples when teams made it to the postseason against long odds.

by redrey on Aug 27, 2008 10:40 AM EDT reply actions  

The Rockies last year

the ultimate example of a team making the playoffs against long odds….

"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley

by Futility Infielder on Aug 27, 2008 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions  

Feeling fine myself

The Cards played pretty timid last night…… they kept waiting for someone else to get the key hit…. but it never came. They pretty much lost the game in the first four innings when they couldn’t get a run across.

You know they’ll keep fighting till the end of the season. Wish Barton had not been hurt….. would have liked to have seen him in tonights lineup. Oh well….. Go Cards.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Aug 27, 2008 10:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Really...

how close did we come to blowing it wide open in that first inning? Pujols and Glaus bot ALMOST went deep.

by cardzfanbub on Aug 27, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

That ball of Glaus bat

looked gone. Like long gone.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Aug 27, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

*off of

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Aug 27, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

That guy hits.....

More fly balls that I think are gone when they leave the bat, but end up at the track, then anybody I can remember.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rooney...

sure thought it was gone…at least I think it was Rooney…might’ve been Shannon. Either way they called it like a dinger.

Must’ve been Shannon…“Did he get enough???”

by cardzfanbub on Aug 27, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

it was Shannon

he did think it was gone

i was listening in the car

My first memory of Cardinals baseball is seeing Darrell Porter jump into Bruce Sutter's arms on October 20, 1982!

by 82Special on Aug 27, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lineup tonight.....

What would you all do with Skip and Ankiel? One will sit for sure, replaced by Mather, but would you try to get them both out of the lineup? I probably would.

Think I’d go like this tonight:

Izturis SS
Mather CF
Pujols 1B
Ludwick RF
Glaus 3B
Molina C
Lopez LF
Waino P
Miles 2B

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 10:46 AM EDT reply actions  

Ankiel should sit

for a little while now. He just ain’t right.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Aug 27, 2008 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Is Tony trying to make Ank into the next C. Duncan?

I for one do not want to see him “play through it”, or “get his confidence back”. He sure doesn’t look good at the plate, and now his defense is slipping.

by dralexp on Aug 27, 2008 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll try one too

Mather CF
Lopez 2B
Pujols 1B
Glaus 3B
Ludwick RF
Molina C
Stavinoha LF
Wainwright P
Izturis SS

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Aug 27, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just threw up a little..

thinking about Iz2 at leadoff…though he’s been respectable vs. LHP.

by cardzfanbub on Aug 27, 2008 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

That wasn't intended...

as an insult. Though I didn’t realize his line was quite that good. Too bad we don’t have a lefty hitting SS to platoon him with. I still think he should have stuck to hitting RH’d all the time…he is definitely not a switch-hitter anymore (not that he really ever was).

by cardzfanbub on Aug 27, 2008 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Can he actually do better right handed against RHP?

He’s batted the other way so much, I don’t know if he would automatically be any better (if not worse). He hasn’t really done anything when he has switched like that.

by saladdays on Aug 27, 2008 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see how he could be worse...

he has tried it, though IMO not for long enough to get comfortable. I know that when I swing LH’d I have little control and NO power…I’m not saying he’d be successful – but it’s worth a shot.

He has a .567 OPS as a lefty and a .546 OPS vs. RHP – apparently he’s done a little worse righty vs. righty. I still say he didn’t give it enough time.

From BR:
RH vs RH 13 Plate Appearances - .250 OPS – .111 BABIP

Oddly his OPS from 2005-2007 was higher LHd (.628) than RHd (.591).

by cardzfanbub on Aug 27, 2008 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

It might help to measure

his bat speed from each side. It’s doubtful that it’s the same both ways.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 27, 2008 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not against it either

I just wasn’t sure if you were saying you would expect immediate improvement from him or not.

by saladdays on Aug 27, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

The BR line...

was career this season he’s 0 for 8 with 2K’s. Looks like he tried it for two games.

by cardzfanbub on Aug 27, 2008 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

carp

roto scroll bar says carp may be weeks away due to shoulder stiffness, tightness, whatever. raise your hand if you are surprised!!! raise it twice if you think we’ve got another mulder on our hands!!!!

How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor

by themanthemyth on Aug 27, 2008 10:48 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't think it's anything like Mulder.....

Maybe that is b/c I just don’t want to think that, but I really don’t.

He probably needs to just shut it down for the year, but if the doctors don’t think he can “hurt” it, and he just needs a little more time, to me, that is his decision.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

Totally different situations

Shoulders versus elbows. His elbow is just stronger than his shoulder because it was being rehabbed while the shoulder wasn’t. Very common post TJ. But that doesn’t mean he will be good to go in two weeks either. The club has arguably just spend like $28 million for two seasons of zilch.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions  

which is why he shouldn't have been put back in the rotation

if they are not careful they are going to get three more years of zilch for $44.5 million.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 27, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am concerned.......

He has an extensive injury history. He’s already had shoulder surgery. Very concerned. Alway seem to be waiting. Perhaps they should just shut him down for the rest of the season and hope 2009 sees him on the mound. He still has a bunch of years on his contract. The future has to be a part of the equation unless they want to continue to pay him not to pitch.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Aug 27, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, Mark Mulder's shoulder appears to be feeling better

than Chris Carpenter’s. How does that make you feel?

I think the thing that’s different now is that in the past Walt Jocketty always had some kind of deal in the hopper. And when it came out, so unexpectedly, yet so welcome, it was a tremendous boost for both the fans and the players. I feel like the current front office is unlikely to ever pull rabbits out of the hat. No help is coming. It’s not on the way. That’s basically the message, and it takes some getting used to.

I agree that the farm system needs to be the priority. But I also get the feeling that there isn’t going to be a major free agent signing to shore of the middle infield; the pickup of a topline starter; or even a super set-up man or LOOGy.

The team was blessed with weak competition in the division over the past decade. But the other teams are not sitting still. I very much hope the farm produces some of the team’s star players in the next year or two. But let’s not kid ourselves that pitchers like Jaime Garcia or Mitchell Boggs are the next Clayton Kershaw.

The intermediate period will be a supreme test of the front office to truly transition to self-sustaining system. It won’t be easy, and all the while they have to keep their eyes on No. 5, rapidly approaching free agency. Oh, and the third-winningest manager in ML history is probably leaving soon, too. We live in interesting times.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 10:48 AM EDT reply actions  

I hate just being in the race!!

Though it is better than not being in the race at all..

At 4.5 games back and 5.5 should we lose tonight we’re a long shot to make the playoffs…pretty much where we’ve been all month. This leaves us in a constant state of flux not knowing whether to go for it, or to play for next year. There’s certainly a part of me that would love to see what Lohse and/or Looper could return…but there’s another part of me that fears doing that and ending up a game or two out of the wildcard.

Ultimately I know that this organization won’t cash in their chips when they’re still “in it”…but you have to wonder what would be the best decision. This seems to be a whole ’nother opportunity costs discussion.

by cardzfanbub on Aug 27, 2008 10:50 AM EDT reply actions  

I still second my "call up Wallace on 9-1 and move Glaus to short" plan

For god’s sake, we’re playing Felipe Lopez there to give offense to the position, and since he’s a good-fielding third baseman, he’d at least be as good with the glove there as Lopez, and he’d give you a legitimately great bat at short along with a damn good bat at third. We are currently in all-out mode, and the last thing we need to be doing is to keep playing 70 OPS+ players in BOTH MIF positions. Wallace has done nothing but tear the crap out the ball since being drafted. BRING HIM UP.

by craig3410 on Aug 27, 2008 10:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Nah.....

Glaus isn’t a SS by any means. Dudes range is fairly limited, and there would likely be an adjustment period for Wallace, not like he’s going to step in and start slugging, most likely.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

not only that

but why in the world would you set yourself up to have two defensive negative situations on the same side of the infield.

taking GG caliber defense away from 3rd to “slot” it into SS is like putting Albert in the 7th spot.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Aug 27, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

yep

don’t mess with a good thing, Glaus has been outstanding at 3B!

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

What about Pujols?

Albert failed to hit a sac fly in the third that would have made the game 2-1, then made a bonehead decision to throw the ball to second for the final out of the fifth, thereby allowing the third run. Tony’s decision wasn’t too smart either but it ranks behind both of Albert’s executions earlier in the game

As far as the season, there is still plenty of hope left. The Padres just beat Webb and Haren so anything is possible. A loss tonight will erase any optimism left

by ubeddie on Aug 27, 2008 10:51 AM EDT reply actions  

Yep

I was pretty hard on Albert last night. That was not a good AB.

I still make the claim that he has failed more this year in situations like that. Dude’s had a great year, but he’s still seemed a little off at times, more often than in past seasons, to me.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

is his OPS a lot lower?

or better yet, is his slugging down? cuz his BA sure looks fine

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's more of a situational hitting problem......

But I think it best shows up in his RBI’s.

I know there is the argument that he isn’t being pitched to, but with runners on, unless 1st base is open, he has to get pitches. Skip is probably one of the better leadoff guys Pujols has had in front of him, and Ludwick has hit in front most of the year.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think you want to try to prove that empirically

because the close & late numbers don’t support it. Strauss or Miklasz was rattling them off last week. Albert is still pretty amazing, just about any time during the game. His only problems come when he swings at bad pitches—which are increasingly what he gets. That he’s able to still hit them for average is remarkable.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed fully.

Non-Clutch Albert is a misconception born of unrealistic fan expectations.

by andujar on Aug 27, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah let's face it

the league is onto him, there is absolutely no doubt that he’s the guy on the team to pitch around, and Albert has done a remarkable job at adjusting his game to that fact.

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Reminds me of the scene in Bingo Long

when Big Alex Haley, the slugger (whatever his name was) was being intentionally walked and he stepped across the plate and smacked the ball over the fence anyway. (I think this happened once in real life with Babe Ruth.)

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

so that's what that movie is called!

i saw some of this film on a saturday afternoon years and years ago and thought it was kind of cool. but i’ve never known the name of it until you prompted me to check imdb.com and see if it was the same movie.
thanks! now, is the movie any good? because i honestly can’t remember if it was.

by mattybobo on Aug 27, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haven't seen it in years

But my memory is that it was highly entertaining. Billy Dee WIlliams is in, too. “Bingo Long’s Traveling All-Stars & Motor Kings” is the full title.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

And

Kelly Leak, who played for Chico’s Bail Bonds. That kid could rake.

by meat on Aug 27, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

God what a great movie

The Bad News Bears was the first PG movie I couldn’t see because it was too “adult.”

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually.....

I think the numbers do support me.

His close and late are pretty good, but way down from last season.
2008 – .340/.479/.679
2007 – .403/.565/.790

His scoring position average and slugging are both the lowest they’ve been in the last 5 seasons.

His scoring position with 2 out numbers are the 4th worst season averages out of the last 5 seasons.

In nearly every case, his OBP is a bit higher than the last 4 seasons, but average and slugging are down. Some make the case he isn’t getting anything to hit. I don’t think that is as big a case as some are saying, but it’s true to a certain degree. The problem is, Albert is expanding the zone too often and getting himself out, rather than taking the walk, or getting ahead in the count and in cases where they half to pitch to him, hitting from ahead in the count.

Just b/c he is walking more, doesn’t, in theory, mean his average and slugging % half to go down.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

You have to be kidding me.

The league is not giving him meatballs to hit. That sums up the difference right there. I will take .679 slugging any day, year or decade. There’s no pleasing some people…

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are arguing the wrong point.....

You are comparing him to the league, I’m comparing him to what HE HAS DONE IN THE PAST!

So they were giving him meatballs in the past? That is BS and you know it. Again, just b/c he is getting pitched around some, doesn’t mean his average and slugging numbers must go down. He just needs to better recognize when they aren’t giving him anything to hit, and quit trying to turn nothing into something. Hit when they pitch to you, walk when they don’t. You can’t try to hit 3 run HR’s when they are bouncing balls up there to you.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I understand your point.

I think you completely understate the degree to which opposing pitchers fear Albert and try to give him junk to hit. Yes, he does go for stuff out of the zone and sometimes pops it up or rolls over on it. But his numbers from last are not sustainable. If there is anyone in the Hall of Fame whose lifetime slugging average was over .650, I’m guessing his name was Ruth or Aaron.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again.....

Now you are comparing splits from Albert to overall stats from Ruth or Aaron.

Trust me, I understand what Albert gets to hit. I’ve watched darn near every game this year, and alot of games in past seasons. I just don’t think he’s getting pitched THAT much tighter this year, especially since Ludwick has started hitting. IMO, he’s probably getting more AB’s with guys on 2nd and 3rd than in recent years.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sadly, the F/X data isn't available

(at least to my knowledge) for last year. If it was, we could actually compare the pitches Albert got last year with this year.

My point about Ruth and Aaron is that anytime a hitter posts a slugging average of .750, whether it be late in the game or whatever, it isn’t sustainable. No one in 100 years of baseball has sustained that kind of power hitting. So when you take Albert’s drop-off from .750 to .679 as a sign of his impatience or poor situational decisionmaking, I have a hard time buying that.

If you want to be optimistic, you could say he’s being pitched around. If you want to be pessimistic, you could say he’s regressing to the mean (his mean, that is). But it takes a quantum leap to say he’s not hitting well, for him or anyone, in these situations.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

3 of the last 4 seasons before this one.....

Albert slugged better than .747 in close and late situations. I didn’t look back any further, but I’d say that is pretty sustainable.

Agree to disagree then.

My entire point was that he “hitting”, not walking, in RBI situations this year is down from his past seasons. I suspect some of it has to do with chasing more pitches, but that doesn’t excuse Albert. If he comes up with guys on 1st and 2nd, and 1 out, I’d rather he take the walk then pop the ball up.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dont think demanding that the greatest hitter in the game change his approach

is going to get much traction among Cardinal fans. The guy knows better than you or I what he can do with a bat in his hands. In fact he knows that he is better with a bat in his hands than 99.99% of every human being ever born. After going through 2 seasons – close to 1,500 plate apperances of chicken shit from opposing pitchers and managers I tend to allow him some vanity AB’s. Especially when he’s hitting 350 and leading the league in slugging. He may be expanding the zone a little bit more, but come on – #5 is NOT the problem with this team.

by rlgosnell on Aug 27, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think a little more data supports a different conclusion

Albert’s numbers are only down when 1st base is open.

Runner on first only: .366/.448/.554/1.003
Runners on 1st/2nd: .351/.455/.676/.1.130
Runners on 1st/3rd: .538/.467/.615/1.082(apparently b-r counts SFs as PAs for OBP)
Sacks jammed: .375/.364/1.000 (not surprising that he doesn’t walk a lot with bases loaded)

Runner on 2nd only: .091/.535/.227/.762
Runner on 3rd only: .333/.722/.667/.1.389
Runners on 2nd/3rd: .250/.667/.250/.917

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 27, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

The data of situations when he comes up with 1st open suggests to me that

he is definitely expanding the strike zone because he doesn’t want to walk. Look at his OBP’s vs his AVG’s! It tells me that the pitchers are looking to walk him, but when he swings it’s at something he can’t drive.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 27, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd like to see that in relation

to other top 5 hitters in the past who are having great seasons, specifically Bonds in 2001-2004 to see if his data is in any way similar to theirs. Barry would take a walk any time it was given to him, and rarely expanded his zone, so I’d expect his numbers to be better.

Other great hitters such as Mays, Mantle, and Aaron may have expanded their zone a bit with a runner on third and less than 2 out to try to drive in a run. Great hitters should do that, because they are probably better at hitting a ball just outside the zone than a lot of guys are hitting strikes. I expect Pujols to expand his zone with runners on second or third and less than 2 out — it’s his job to drive in those runs.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 27, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

This statement

is true.

And it speaks to a skill, or mindset, or something, that I think is one reason MVP voters love RBIs.

This is also something that a SABRnerd poring over a spreadsheet full of stats is probably not going to see. People will tell you that you have to watch a ton of games to recognize when a player does this consistently.

(if someone can show me how to dissect boxscores or somehting to show that a batter expanded his zone in an attempt to drive in a runs rather than take a walk, please do. I’m genuinely curious if such a thing exists.)

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Aug 27, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

There are ways to statistically measure this

One is the number of RBI’s a hitter has in those situations. Another would be looking at the number of times a hitter is left stranded.

LaRussa talks about this in George Will’s book Men at Work. I don’t remember it verbatim, but it was something about McGwire and Canseco hitting with a runner on second and less than 2 outs, they usually tried to poke the ball the other way to move the runner up if they got behind in the count. Nearly 60% of balls put into play in that fashion went for hits, and 55% of those drove in the runner from second base. The other 45% of the time the runner was moved up to third with 1 out or 2 outs and was that much closer to scoring.

I would call this “playing the game the right way”, and it’s not something that you can measure with counting stats, it’s only stuff that you can measure by charting situations. I’m all for Bondsian efforts at getting on base, but the truth is I’d rather have a great hitter that will expand his zone to drive in a run than one who will just take a walk only to watch the guy behind him hit into a double play and end the inning.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 27, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

A colleague of mine devised a system called Bases Produced that measures this sort of situational hitting.

You may find it interesting.

by liam on Aug 27, 2008 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Last night was a team loss

From Manager on down. No one player cost them the game. So Pujols isn’t perfect…. nice to know he is human after all.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Aug 27, 2008 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

how did the manager lose the game?

Looks to me like he put a pretty good lineup out there and put the team in a position to win. IMO, that loss fell squarely on the players.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 27, 2008 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll put

Welley going back out for the 7th on Tony’s shoulders. Very questionable.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Aug 27, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

No

but unless you only count the single run in the first inning, nothing outside of that “cost us the game.”

These things aren’t linear.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Aug 27, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

the offense not being able to score any runs time and time again didn't have an effect?

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 27, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously it did

Not scoring runs (with a lineup the manager set) was a big problem. I remember hearing once, the team that scores more runs normally wins, and zero isn’t very many runs.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Aug 27, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, you're right

he should have started Utley at 2nd, Ramirez at SS and had Ichiro lead off.

He put the best lineup out there that this team is capable of and they did squat.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 27, 2008 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not sold on Ankiel being in the lineup

As it being the best possible, but that’s not really here or there.

The point is, I’m not sure how La Russa isn’t responsible at all, not even a percentage point for the loss.

(Another major issue with the managers game last night was the continuance to pitch to Braun right into his wheelhouse; probably more of a Duncan issue. Bernie has a great take on it on his blog this morn.)

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Aug 27, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah he's got some blame obvioulsy

I was just originally responding to OKCARDSFAN saying “from manager on down”. I take that as it starts with the manager and then goes down. Maybe I mis-interpreted that, but I would say the last person you could point blame at last night was LaRussa.

The team had every opportunity to win a game last night and they failed. There really wasn’t anything LaRussa could have done last night that could have changed it. He put out the lineup and they didnt’ perform. There aren’t any other options that are any better than the one’s that started. Should Ank bat 4th? Probably not, but that didn’t seem to effect the way they pitched Albert and it definitely didn’t affect the game.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 27, 2008 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that if Larussa wouldn't have batted Ankiel at cleanup

or just sat him altogether, we would have done better.

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

The key word I meant was "Team"

It was a team loss…. I wasn’t trying to isolate TLR, just wanted to include him.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Aug 27, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

woh woh woh

we score plenty of runs, it’s just not in very consistent bunches. my hunch is that this is because of the ever changing lineups, but who knows. there’s definitely a feast or famine thing going on with the offense.

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Doubt it.....

Tony has done that for years.

I just don’t like the makeup of the lineup. Obviously having big holes at 2B and SS hurt, but I think we have 3 guys that are very streaky, two of which take a swing for the fence approach nearly every AB.

May not be a popular opinion, but I’d like to move Ankiel in the offseason, especially if we think Colby is ready to start.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would too

Some fans would be ticked, but I think you have to use the depth in OF to strengthen other areas. Ankiel makes a lot of business sense for a lot of different reasons.

by Merry CRasmus on Aug 27, 2008 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

or move Skip

he may be a better trade chip, as we were talking about a few days ago.

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

First thing Mo should do this offseason

is to personally sit down with all six of our MLB-ready OFs {Ankiel, Ludwick, Schumaker, Mather, Barton, Duncan} and explain to them that one of them is going to get moved this offseason and that it’s not an insult to whoever gets traded away: that they all belong on a big-league roster, we don’t have room for all six of them, and that whichever of them another team is willing to trade the most value for is going to be gone.

Treat ’em like men and all.

by liam on Aug 27, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

well put.

then Tony will say something about how they didn’t fit in our lineup just ’cause he likes to ruffle feathers.

by cardzfanbub on Aug 27, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Will they

then all have pudding cups and take a nap?

Jeez. These guys are grown men in a league where players are let go and traded and demoted and such all the time. I think they knew what they were getting into when they signed up.

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Aug 27, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

They are grown men. They know they don't have a lot of say about where the end up for a long time.

BUT all organizations need spare parts. If you want to be able to pick from the better spare parts, you damn well better treat people in a dignified manner. Treating the people that work for you or have worked for you in a respectful manner is good for business. Baseball too. As these guys move from team to team, you think they don’t talk about what has happened to them at other stops along the way?

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Aug 27, 2008 8:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's a randomness thing, I think

Streaky hitters + two black holes mean lots of variability (meaning little or no run-scoring) at times.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 1:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was talking about last night

and that actually proves my point. This is a lineup that can definitely score runs, but they did squat last night. Can’t blame the manager for that.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 27, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

AP's throw to second

cost a run. That move made it a three run deficit. Tony’s decision opened the door to make it a five run deficit. Albert’s move proved more costly than Tony’s.

by ubeddie on Aug 27, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ankiel's mis-play off the wall

Turned a double into a tripple that later scored also. :-)

by Evilfrog on Aug 27, 2008 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Per fangraphs

Pujols’ error dropped win chance 8.7, Braun’s HR dropped it 6.1.

Pujols’ error is more costly, Braun’s is also significant.

Regardless, Welley out there in the 7th clearly did not put us in an advantage.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Aug 27, 2008 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Should note

that the probs on Brauns HR would be greatly altered if AP didn’t make that error, but, as I said, these things aren’t linear and Braun probably wouldn’t have hit a HR in this alternate universe.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Aug 27, 2008 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 27, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

What about the hit-and-run fly-out DP?

With the pitcher batting, no less. Pretty bone-headed if you ask me, or at the very least, non-conventional

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 27, 2008 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I didn’t enjoy that play at the time.

by liam on Aug 27, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I wasn't a fan of Miles

not even trying to get back to the base. The throw was off-line and it should have atleast been a close play. I’m not sure what he was doing at 2nd base.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 27, 2008 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

He gave up

after the slip. He knew he’d been had, until he saw how bad the throw was and ramped it back up. I don’t think it mattered anyway, but it didn’t look good. Not very Gritty, if you ask me.

Sorry, I’m not one to harp on players, but something’s amiss when you look flat for the biggest game of the year. If there was ever a time for the “hard nine”, it was last night, but I didn’t see it show up. Disappointing.

by hit and run on Aug 27, 2008 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

How did the Manager lose the game?

-Putting Rick Ankiel in the most important place in the lineup.
-Carrying 2 backup MIF’ers who hit better than him, letting Adam Kennedy bat with runners on.
-With a rested bullpen, letting Todd Wellemeyer bat for himself with 1 out and runners on.
-With the pitcher batting CALLING FOR THE FUCKING HIT AND RUN!
-Sending Todd Wellemeyer back out for the 7th inning.

And, sending Todd Wellemeyer back out there might have cost us the game. It was 3-0, Todd made it 5-0. In a 3-0 game, Wonderbrad and Garcia aren’t left out there to rot and the score doesn’t become 12-0.

Sometimes I think people believe Tony is the Pope.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 27, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

yep.

Like when Tony does all those same things and they win by 6.

by abothecardinal on Aug 27, 2008 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

read the whole thread and you might figure out why I responded.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 27, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly

a few here gripe when Pujols doesn’t perform 100%. but he’s not a robot, dude

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I had a feeling

Pujols was going to punish Sheets for the wink after the first. Did any of you see that?

He had the perfect opportunity there in the second at-bat, and blew it. I know we sometimes expect too much from Pujols, but I was extremely disappointed there. Then the error compounded the problem.

I can’t help feeling that there’s something wrong. Same with Yadi a few nights ago (the inning vs. the Pirates, where the poor decision to throw to third on the bunt was compounded by the drop at the plate).

Again, maybe I’m expecting too much, but it seems to me that a champion with his head in the right place overcomes the occasional mishap to prevail. Or at least not make matters worse with another mistake. Pujols and Yadi are not flippant players. Why aren’t their heads screwed on straight during a playoff chase? What distraction, what frustration, what is it that’s causing this?

I’ll venture a guess: the coaching staff is missing a key component. A lot of people like to harp on LaRussa and Duncan, claiming mis-management regarding certain decisions, and others are quick to defend with lots of evidence of past success. That seems superficial to me. Lets get a little deeper.

We know that LaRussa and Duncan spend more time preparing than anyone. Players have told us that it’s like a completely different league compared to other teams. They are consumed with numbers, situations, and matchups, and that’s what makes them stand out from the rest. Compare that to the opposite end of the spectrum, the “player’s coach”. You know the type: manages on gut feelings, is charismatic, knows how to motivate a player, and seems to say the right thing at the right time. The type of guy that is known as a “people person”, but would never be labeled a “genius”.

Having LaRussa and Duncan gives us an advantage above every other team on the “numbers” side of the management skillset. I’m afraid, however, that we’ve given up too much on the “players” side of the skillset and thus are not taking full advantage. Maybe Tony and Dave need to be offset by a bench coach and/or batting coach that excels at the other end of the spectrum. Someone who knows just what to say before/during/after a game to keep the players relaxed, focused, and motivated. Let Tony and Dave use their genius to develop the best gameplan, and get someone who can talk the players through the execution.

Maybe I’m wrong. What say the wisdom of the VEB crowd?

by hit and run on Aug 27, 2008 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Too Much

I think Pujols and Yadi both feel like they have to do something spectacular because the team has its holes. Rather than just execute what they need to do, they might feel like they need to do more to shift the game and compensate for some of the gaps. And to their credit, both have been pretty good in doing that this year, which is why when they don’t, it stands out even more than normal. Just my take.

I believe the children are our future...

by Crafty Veteran on Aug 27, 2008 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe that

and it’s understandable. Pujols popped up because he was trying to do too much; Yadi threw to third because he was trying to do too much. That’s going to happen, but that’s not the issue. The issue is what happens next.

Following the popup, Pujols didn’t calm back down and execute. He made a boneheaded play, and I don’t think that play can be classified as trying to do too much: there were two outs, he wasn’t going for the double play.

Nearly the same for Yadi, except that he may have been rushing to get the DP. Still, you gotta get the first out first. Compounding mistakes.

Maybe a different coach says the right thing at the right time to re-focus the player.

by hit and run on Aug 27, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

It could be they just had a bad day that just got worse, we’ve all been there.Considering the fact that both of them have been on fire as of late (in each’s respective fashion), I would say that is a high chance.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Aug 27, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Errr...

“maybe I’m expecting too much, but it seems to me that a champion with his head in the right place overcomes the occasional mishap to prevail. Or at least not make matters worse with another mistake. Pujols and Yadi are not flippant players. Why aren’t their heads screwed on straight during a playoff chase? What distraction, what frustration, what is it that’s causing this?”

It’s not Hollywood – it’s real life. Sometimes people don’t overcome mistakes. Has nothing to do with their head being in the right place. Non-smokers get lung cancer. NL MVP Gold Glovers make errors.

As to their head being screwed on straight, you may be right – is the leadership style of LaDunc correct for this group of players? I would argue, that when YOU PLAY CHRIS “I HAVE A HERNIATED DISC IN MY F’IN NECK” DUNCAN INSTEAD OF RYAN “I’M A F’NG ALLSTAR” LUDWICK, you’re probably right (it still pisses me off). So let’s take a it a little deeper – does Tony know his players and know what motivates them?

George Will and Bissinger think he did, but seriously – let’s go CSI on it. How many injuries have been hidden from Tony? Rolen, Izzy, Chris Duncan…that’s not indicative of a manager who knows his players.

I’m not calling for Tony’s head by any means – he’s just distant. And now, with a different, younger team, a distant manager may not be what this team needs.

I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck

by bukowski on Aug 27, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

OK, I shouldn't have used the mistakes

as the taking-off point for the discussion. That wasn’t the point I was trying to make. I understand that mistakes happen.

We could use the “unknown” injuries, as you have, or the Colby comments discussed below, or the “young pitcher” comments from a couple weeks ago, or any of the multitudes of other questionable player/manager relationship issues that plague Tony and Dave. The point is, Tony and Dave give you the best on the analytical/strategy side of managing, but appear to be seriously lacking in the motivational side. My question was, should we have a bench coach/etc. that is the opposite of Tony and Dave, to balance things out, maybe even get the best of both worlds?

Food for thought: players commended Edmonds for his leadership and motivation during the ’06 WS run. If we had that now, would that be the spark we need to make another postseason run? If so, can we get that in a bench coach?

by hit and run on Aug 27, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Razzle Dazzle

So Tony says Rasmus “hasn’t earned a promotion” but Randy Flores has? I can agree that he hasn’t had a great year, but I just don’t understand the need to go out of your way to say that he doesn’t deserve to be called up. Couldn’t we just politely say that we are too deep in the OF or something?

Hopefully Young Centerfielder has a thick skin.

by OCCardsFan on Aug 27, 2008 10:56 AM EDT reply actions  

what he should have said is

“The front office doesn’t want to spend the money to bring Rasmus up this year.”

But I doubt if that would have gone over any better.

by Evilfrog on Aug 27, 2008 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

Said the same in yesterday's last overflow

He could go corporate and say that “The profit margin target is within reach and any additional call ups would seriously jeopardize meeting our corporate goal.”

by ubeddie on Aug 27, 2008 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

I was thinking exactly the same thing…I don’t think you need to coddle players, like it was little league or something, but I thought he was unnecessarily harsh…it’s quite obvious to everyone that you cannot earn something is you are injured…but if wasn’t his fault he got injured…if you don’t care to bring Rasmus up in September, then just say so without the edge…at least that’s how I see it.

by tbell61 on Aug 27, 2008 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

to be fair, he didn't earn the promotion when he was healthy either

He had one good month and three crappy ones.

But, I agree it could have been worded differently.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 27, 2008 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

definitely a poor choice of words on TLR's part

Seems sometimes like he goes out of his way to piss off his own players. He could’ve simply said that coming off the injury, Rasmus needs playing time and at-bats that he’s not likely to get on the major league roster in September. But instead he says he “hasn’t earned it,” almost like the kid doesn’t work hard or has a crappy attitude. Way to alienate one of the centerpieces of the club’s future, Tony!

by DCRedbird on Aug 27, 2008 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

if he gets alienated by that...

Then he definitely has some growing up to do. Did he earn a call up? No. End of story.

by abothecardinal on Aug 27, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

"hasn't earned it"

He hasn’t. Quit trying to twist and spin the comments. It’s not like he went out looking for a recorder to talk in to. He didn’t earn it PLUS he was hurt. It definitely could have been worded differently, but the bottom line is he didn’t earn a promotion. And he’s not going to be getting regular at bats in the minors either because their seasons are ending in about 5 days.

I wouldn’t be surprised to see him sitting on the bench with the players down the stretch, but then again if they’re out of it, why would you want him around that atmosphere anyway?

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 27, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't disagree with that, T.B.

he’d be much better off getting going in the AFL and regaining some of those lost AB’s rather than “soaking up” the major league atmosphere

by tbell61 on Aug 27, 2008 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

apparently not eligible for AFL

due to timing of injury. Will have to play winter ball somewhere.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 27, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep. I'm getting a feeling that Tony thinks Mr. Rasmus needs to be knocked down a peg or two.

How about wanting to get a look at him for the GOOD OF THE ORGANIZATION? To get his feet wet……He did bounce back nicely from a horrendous start. Shouldn’t that count? A little? Should Rasmus take his bat and go home because he slogged through the first part of the season or should he try to get where he needs to be? And the fact that he had a bounce back, is it okay to just ignore that? To me, it’s not.

I really, really, hate when he makes those kind of comments. In my mind they are unnecessarily harsh.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Aug 27, 2008 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Raz as JD Drew?

On the radio today Bernie seemed to indicate that they wanted Rasmus to know he needed to earn it and that it would not be given to him. He mentioned that they wanted to make sure this wasn’t a JD Drew thing. Not sure why he needs to slam him in public, but TLR is a bit of a mystery to me sometimes.

I believe the children are our future...

by Crafty Veteran on Aug 27, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I heard it too

and sounded a lot like Bernie and Strauss stirring up shit. I’d like to hear someone like Goold’s take on it before I even start to believe it.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Aug 27, 2008 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

I believe the children are our future...

by Crafty Veteran on Aug 27, 2008 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

well

it is kind of a weird statement, but you have to look at the situation in the OF vs. the situation in the bullpen. the OF is definitely far more competitive.

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I feel pretty good actually,

considering I’ve been a strong build-from-within advocate for a few years and that’s exactly what we’re getting. And the lumps we’re getting are lumps I expected.

On another topic, I’m getting to the point that when Ankiel comes up to hit with men on base, I head for the kitchen to get a beer, or to take the trash out. I’m expecting Ks from him, and getting them. Last night’s AB early, immediately following a rare poor AB from Albert, was really infuriating. Rick can’t hit high inside stuff but he can’t lay off it either. And clearly the Brewers know that, as Sheets kept pounding him there and getting results. Why Rick is hitting 4th right now is a mystery.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 27, 2008 10:59 AM EDT reply actions  

Yep.

Rick Ankiel Splits

Go down to “Close and Late”. Rick Ankiel is 9 for 68 with 1 double and two HRs. He’s got 6 walks and 28 strikeouts. Overall numbers in C&L are .132 / .203 / .235.

Dude’s a mess in the clutch.

by craig3410 on Aug 27, 2008 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

that might be something to keep in mind

before the club goes handing out four year contracts…especially given the surplus of outfield prospects…I’m just saying…

by tbell61 on Aug 27, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

How much of that is matchups?

I agree that Ank is pressing in those “close and late” situations. But re: those numbers in the last three innings, I wonder if at least some of that is due to matchups, i.e., facing LOOGYs… I’d be curious to see the details if someone could parse them out…

by DCRedbird on Aug 27, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think it's too off base

to portray Ankiel as not exactly the poster boy for short term mental toughness at this point in his career, but he is one guy I wouldn’t count out on the ability to adapt.

(Weren’t his close and late numbers good last year?)

But he’s clearly not the same guy he was pre-ab injury. Somethings not right.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Aug 27, 2008 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions  

With this ab injury Rick has a chance to

try a different approach with his swing, i.e., cut it down and make contact. Good for healing a side injury, and good for avoiding the flaming K’s in RBI situations.

When he feels better, go back to the bombs-away approach.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 27, 2008 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

I've been on him about his approach in key AB's all year long

He simply goes up there hacking at everything, when those are the AB’s where you need to be patient and try to get a good pitch to hit, because a walk only creates more tension on the other side. He surely should not be hitting behind Pujols in the late innings right now. Hell, with a two run lead and the bases loaded in the ninth I’d STILL walk Pujols to get to Ankiel, because I’ve seen him chase pitches all over the place in key at-bats all season long.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 27, 2008 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

+1

He definitely has the zero or hero attitude when batting in pressure situations. Problem is once major league pitchers know that’s your approach, they’re going to make you the zero every time. If he just stood there with the bat on his shoulder in key situations, he’d probably get a walk every time until pitchers figured out he’s not going to swing. If i was the opposing pitching coach, I’d fine any pitcher of mine who threw him anything close to a strike.

by satori21 on Aug 27, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good point. It's been very

instructive watching Ank and Ludwick this year. Both were wild cards, but Luddy has done a better job of adjusting as the year has gone on.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 27, 2008 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

Ludwick certainly seems to have more adaptability and control of his ability. I’m probably stretching the metaphor too far but I see the roots of Ankiel’s old wild pitch problem in his new wild swing problem – tons and tons of talent but uncontrolled especially when you add pressure to the equation. wish he could just pull back a bit on the throttle.

by satori21 on Aug 27, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

interesting to note...

Luddy’s average ‘late and close’ is .209. But he does have 6 HRs and 14 RBIs, at least.

Pujols is .333.

by RedbirdAvenger on Aug 27, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. Honestly, I think he'd be a great #7 hitter

in my ideal lineup. But to put him in a high-RBI-opportunity slot is madness.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 27, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

If we didn't see this coming it's our fault.

The guy is in his first full year of facing MLB pitching. He is a guess hitter or a mistake hitter and that’s about it. It should be no surprise either considering his short MILB history and huge K rates. Could he continue to develop? Probably but he’s already 30 and isn’t likely to ever be a 300 hitter. He’s a good corner OF who should be in the 6 spot of a decent lineup, but not relied on to be a major run producer – especially not batting cleanup. I’m sure its not the easiest thing in the world for the guy to be in his first year and having to protect the best hitter in the game. I can see how that would cause him to press and guess more to drive in those runs, especially since TLR preaches aggressiveness in RBI opportunities. I can’t blame TLR for batting him there either bc he’s just doing the best with what he has. Glaus can’t handle the 4 spot either. The problem is the lineup construction. Luddy could work at cleanup but that leaves a hole in the 2 spot. We either need a slugger or a OBP guy in the MIF. A slugger isnt coming so hopefully MO can find someone to leadoff or hit 2nd and Luddy can move back to cleanup and drop Glaus and Ank back where they should be.

by rlgosnell on Aug 27, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

"hopefully MO can find someone to leadoff or hit 2nd..."

That someone’s name is…Colby Rasmus. But not til next year.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

no not rasmus. he likely replaces Skip who is giving us excellent production in the OF.

If Rasmus hits 1 or 2….

Rasums – 8
??
Pujols – 3
Ludwick – 7
Glaus – 5
Ankiel – 9
Molina – 2
SS or 2B du jour
Pitcher

We still have the same problem. with a hole at the top of the order. TLR could move Ludwick who does well in the 2 hole, but that leaves a hole in the cleanup spot that we are currently seeing. The production has to be filled by the MIF.

by rlgosnell on Aug 27, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Skip is a goner, sorry to say.

If Rasmus makes the team and Ankiel isn’t traded. Maybe not—I hope not, actually. Your new No. 2 hitter is probably a fellow not on the team right now. Dan Uggla?

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dont think we have the juice to get Uggla.

It would take Rasmus and that seems self-defeating. I woud ‘settle’ for a Mark DeRosa or Orlando Hudson. If only Skip could play 2B then a platoon between him and Miles would be fine.

by rlgosnell on Aug 27, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe, maybe not

Brian Anderson + Boggs + ??? could do it. We’ll throw in Ryan and Kennedy as “replacements.”

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

i would throw in ryan and kennedy for

an autographed Mike Jacobs bobblehead…

"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum

by nomar34 on Aug 27, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

nope

even with the iron glove, if Ugs is to be traded, they’ll get a multi-player haul.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Aug 27, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think we definitely have the juice to get Uggla

the question is whether he would be worth it…our farm system is damn near top 5 in the league so we have the prospects to deal. the fish probably dont need rasmus in the deal since they have mayben, im sure they would take him though…i personally dont think Uggs is worth a Daryl Jones, Jess Todd, David Freese package since he will be getting very expensive soon…

"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum

by nomar34 on Aug 27, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

wow

really? i thought that was a little steep…that is two of our top 5 prospects (imo) and a pretty young 3B that has hit 25 HR in AAA and a .919 OPS…that is a pretty strong hand

"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum

by nomar34 on Aug 27, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd bet quite a bit

that’d get it done. The Marlins have a glut of very good-hitting 2Bs at Albuquerque.

I wouldn’t pull the trigger, though.

by liam on Aug 27, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree completely

Jones could be something special, a little Ricky Henderson-esque, and Todd will of course destroy us all…

"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum

by nomar34 on Aug 27, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jones was one of those prospects

that was naturally gifted but wasn’t playing to his physical potential. He is now playing to that potential and he is unreal.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 27, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

im not saying he's not promising

but go ahead and make your case for what makes him ‘unreal’

by rlgosnell on Aug 27, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's 20

at AA already, and looks to be at least a solid 20-20 man in a coupla-three years.

by liam on Aug 27, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think he's 21

and I dont see him as a consistent 20 HR guy. I see him as more of a poor man’s Carl Crawford.

by rlgosnell on Aug 27, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

5 tool guy

now has 100 ABs in AA (after a great turn at A) with a slash line of:
.305/.434/.533

This, as one of the 10 youngest guys in AA.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 27, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

no not exactly

i mean he is a lead-off guy with good on-base skills and good power with the ability to steal a few bases

"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum

by nomar34 on Aug 27, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's what I would like to see happen

grab a couple of AAA 2b prospects that rate pretty high, put one in Memphis and one on the team after a Spring training battle.

it’ll keep cost/position down and build for the future at the same time.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Aug 27, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's similar

to what the Indians did this year – albeit with two guys with a bit of ML experience – Asdrubal Cabrera and Josh Barfield. Granted Barfield is hurt now, but the Tribe’s starting 2 bagger is Jamey Carrol by default now – YIKES!

I vote we either go all or nothing – stay with Kennedy/Miles/Lopez hybrid or go for a big dog like Uggla. Just my two cents.

by joecardsfan on Aug 27, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

While I would like to see us go the prospect route

I don’t think it is happening at 2B. They don’t seem to want to cut bait with Kennedy and Grit has a contract for life

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 27, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Chase Lambin

might be a nice minor league FA signing during the offseason. He’d be an upgrade over Miles in the power department, at least, and maybe defensively, definitely in terms of versatility.

by liam on Aug 27, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Freese will be 26 by next season

and has one season above A ball. Granted it was a strong season but i dont consider him that young. Jones is rising and Todd is intriguing. But when you look at the packages teams are getting for elite players at their position it normally starts with a cant miss guy plus power pitching. I dont think Jones is yet a cant miss guy. Jones, Todd or Motte, Garcia and Freese or Craig might be closer.

by rlgosnell on Aug 27, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

i think Freese has more value than Motte

maybe not to us since we have a good 3B at the ML level and 2 pretty good prospect behind him but Motte is a one pitch middle reliever that are really a dime a dozen in the minors.

"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum

by nomar34 on Aug 27, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think of Uggla as elite

He’d be a pretty league average 3B and I wouldn’t expect him to stick around at 2B for more than a few more years.

by liam on Aug 27, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

But he plays 2B now

and he’s in the top 5 at his position.

by rlgosnell on Aug 27, 2008 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

and even though I could pound any reasonable offensive stat against our guys…

he has more win shares than our entire core of MI.

he may field like shit, but his bat is worth a lot – and the base running gaffs and some of the fielding could be fixed under a “Secret Weapon” 101.

But he’ll require a ransom and frankly as Florida has shown, they’ll most likely get it.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Aug 27, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm up for it

anything to stop the pain of Izturis/Kennedy/Ryan/Lopez/Miles!

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Roberts

If we are going to give up that much I’d much rather have Roberts. He’s older, but he’s more consistent and plays better defense.

by abothecardinal on Aug 27, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry

but that’s nearly better than what they got for Cabrera, and Uggla isn’t that good or that young.

That’s our second best pitching prospect (behind Boggs), our 2nd best outfield prospect (behind Rasmus) and a 3B that just hit 25 homers in AAA this year.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 27, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trading Lohse/Looper

Each of these two would have to clear waivers to have any hope of getting a player we would want. For example, to protect against NYM getting them, LAD would put in a claim then offer Juan Pierre and his contract. Walt might even make the claim out of spite.

Just because a team makes a claim, doesn’t mean they have to make a realistic offer. I seriously doubt we’ll be able to find a trading partner for either player, but it is worth a shot if we lose tonight.

by ubeddie on Aug 27, 2008 11:02 AM EDT reply actions  

For all we know

we could have already tried to clear waivers on them. Many teams put a lot of guys on waivers just to see what teams might bite.

by saladdays on Aug 27, 2008 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

and typically that is kept confidential

although for some reason, names keep getting leaked.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 27, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

My guess is

They are leaked on purpose to gauge interest of other GM’s

by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2008 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Other GM's

know who’s out on waivers, the CBA requires them to not disclose that information to the public.

by liam on Aug 27, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yet

the names are getting by someone…

by saladdays on Aug 27, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pick your dingle dangles out of the dirt

Stop moping around – the season is not over.

Let us turn, as we often find ourselves doing at times like these, to the pantheon of great motivational speeches:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtP3whUbgZE&feature=related

I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck

by bukowski on Aug 27, 2008 11:07 AM EDT reply actions  

oh

I guess that’s better than what I was watching

by jeff_abs on Aug 27, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

well...

… Camera Obscura has a song called “Lloyd, I’m Ready to Be Heartbroken,” which i think is a reference to a John Cusack movie? yeah, it was Say Anything. i don’t recall the actual line in the movie, but i’m guessing that it comes from there.

as for the Cards, i didn’t expect this much out of them. if they finish the season with the same winning % they have now, that’s 89 wins. i don’t think much of anybody thought they’d be flirting with 90.

given their head-to-head performances with the Brewers and Cubs, they don’t really deserve to be in the playoffs, and i won’t be broken up if they don’t make it. but it’s still been a great year.

by kindred on Aug 27, 2008 11:13 AM EDT reply actions  

Loves me

some Camera Obscura, and that is ever so close, but not quite. See below.

Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?

by the red baron on Aug 27, 2008 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lloyd Cole

A thinking man’s alt-indie-dude…played him a lot at Ithaca College radio in the 80’s…

by glennrwordman on Aug 27, 2008 11:20 AM EDT reply actions  

Your money is on the way.

Congratulations, sir.

Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?

by the red baron on Aug 27, 2008 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Need My

Imaginary Internet bank account number? The Camera Obscura song that “responds” to the Cole song is pretty great, too…

G

by glennrwordman on Aug 27, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

...and the Commotions?

Darn…if I hadn’t been in class teaching I would have gotten this immediately…I was a big LC and the Commotions fan while in grad school back in the day. Could have headed this “No Blue Skies,” but I guess that would have already answered your question.

by RobbingGormanThomas on Aug 27, 2008 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

100 piches

Welly’s been healthy for a while now. 100 pitches isn’t a big deal.

by abothecardinal on Aug 27, 2008 11:24 AM EDT reply actions  

Don't have a pitch range breakdown

but his opponents’ line in the seventh is .308/379/.692/1.072 and he has only made it to the 8th twice all year. It was just a bad managerial decision to send him out there. Only way he goes into the seventh is if his pitch count is down and he was cruising. But I guess TLR is still looking for more heroes.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 27, 2008 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Grateful for a meaningful season...

Things look grim after last night’s spectacle, but there’s still a lot of baseball left. The team has scrapped and fought all year just to stay in the hunt, overcoming setbacks (Pujols’ injury, Wainwright’s injury, Izzy’s meltdown, Carp’s lack of impact, etc.) that would’ve been too much for a lesser group of guys; I don’t expect them to quit now.

But if this is indeed “all she wrote” for the 2008 Cardinals, I can’t say I feel disappointed. How many of us really thought in March that this club would be playing hugely meaningful games in late August? Or that Ryan Ludwick would play MVP-worthy ball all year? That Todd Wellemeyer, Braden Looper, and Kyle Lohse would all reach double-digits in wins? That Yadi Molina would hit .300 (!) in addition to his usual sterling defense? That we’d come out so far ahead on the Rolen-for-Glaus swap?

At the end of the day, maybe this overachieving bunch just isn’t quite talented enough to hang with the Cubs and Brewers this year. But they’ve been great fun to watch, and I appreciate that the club has been able to contend and be competitive in what we all knew was a rebuilding year. This season gives me hope that the “rebuilding” won’t take as long as many of us feared.

by DCRedbird on Aug 27, 2008 11:24 AM EDT reply actions  

+1

And really, my greatest fear has nothing to do with the rest of this year’s games on the field … instead my fear is that the front office won’t be bold and aggressive enough in the offseason.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 27, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think there is no question

That this season has exceeded expectations on a number of fronts…remember, there were a lot of “geniuses” who predicted this team to finish last…the Cardinals may have some flaws, no question about that, but nowhere near the situations they have in Pittsburgh and Cincinnati.

by tbell61 on Aug 27, 2008 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

A win today....

and the Cardinals are no worse off then they were before the series. (Other than having two less games to gain ground) The Cardinals are still very much in the wild card race. Tonight’s game is a must win. Buy, trade, steal if you must, but the Cards need a W tonight

-Charlemagne

by Charlemagne on Aug 27, 2008 11:30 AM EDT reply actions  

amen, brother.

The sky isn’t falling yet. Even if we lose tonight I think we have at least a week before we can start discussing raising the white flag. This is baseball, after all.

by abothecardinal on Aug 27, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cripes!

Two white flags? This isn’t the French national team!

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

booo, anti french jokes

how unoriginal. go back to deadspin.

How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor

by themanthemyth on Aug 27, 2008 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

So why isn't Colby going to Arizona Fall League?

They announced the rosters and Rasmus is off of it. I don’t understand this at all. They don’t call him up in Sept cause he didn’t earn it. So why wouldn’t you send him to the AFL to make up for lost a bats so he can earn it. Why wouldn’t you send him to the AFL to gauge how far his progress is so you can make decisions on dealing the gluttony of outfield.

by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2008 12:46 PM EDT reply actions  

Injuries

The Arizona Fall League has a requirement that you can’t be on the DL for 45 days before the end of the regular season. You can’t be on the roster otherwise. It’s designed to keep the AFL from being a rehab stop, and protect the liability/reputation of the AFL I think it’s reasonable.

Word is that Colby will play this offseason. International Winterball. Where? I’m not sure.

So he’ll play and get those at bats, just a technicality is why he’s not AFL bound.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Aug 27, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

That makes perfect sense

thanks for clearing it up. I wasn’t sure at all.

Didn’t Ankiel play in the Mexican winter league a few years ago? I think he pitched.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 27, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

From my understand of the 45 day rule

That it tends to be very flexible since quite a few guys have been on the DL for less than 45 days and still going to the AFL

by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sure it is

however, he’s not very far removed from the DL, and may have been still on when the players were picked. the situation may have lost that flexibility.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Aug 27, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Steve Hill

Just came off the DL 10 days ago and he is going

by FlimtotheFlam on Aug 27, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

but

he has “earned it” he said, dripping with sarcasm.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 27, 2008 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holding on to faint hopes

But overall pretty down about that stink bomb last night. I think a loss tonight puts me squarely in the resignation room with Red Baron.

I do still think Ned Yost has cracked the whip well before the final turn with CC, and may have to deal with the consequences of that as he reaches the final furlong. Plus I really felt he killed the team last September and may be capable of doing it again. Still. the difference now is that I’m thinking that we are no longer the team that is going to be in the best position to take advantage of that, even if they do actually slip up.

Overall, I am going to appreciate this team no matter what. I think they have come pretty close to maxing out on their potential, really. I try to keep that in mind.

by Merry CRasmus on Aug 27, 2008 1:12 PM EDT reply actions  

I got to say

I am now very close to thinking that the Cards should shut Carpenter down for the rest of the season regardless of their chances to make the playoffs this year. I just keep thinking that his career is more important than a chance to get to the playoffs. If there is no more risk in it than when he is fully healthy ok, send him out there. But if not, why risk it

When the time comes for me to not be bothered by losing that is when I know it is time to retire my fandom

by ANDYAK47 on Aug 27, 2008 1:19 PM EDT reply actions  

Carp needs to be shut down for sure.......

Where is the medical expert who can dig into this more… Didn’t someone say last week that his wife said the team was full of you know what and Carp is worse off than stated publically.

I am officially in the corner of STL needs to assume Carp is not going to pitch in 2009. They can not go into 2009 counting on him. They need to find an impact arm, but good luck.

by ICbirdfan on Aug 27, 2008 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

If his problems cause them to take at run at real

top-of-the-line guy, that could be a great unintended consequence. They need to understand that he’s going to be the Cards’ version of Ben Sheets until his contract expires. He just isn’t going to be consistently healthy ever as a pitcher.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed. Mo MUST do two things to make this team solvent in 2009

1. get a front line power starter – Burnett, Sabathia, Sheets, or whoever.

2. Solve the MIF problem with a slugger or a high OBP guy.

by rlgosnell on Aug 27, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Assuming Carp is healthy.....

I don’t think a front line guy is a must. Carp, Waino, Welly is a pretty salty 1, 2, 3. I’d rather spend that money getting a good bat. Obviously one bat must be a 2B/SS guy. The other I’d like to see be an OF bat. I think management agrees, which was why they chased Bay and possibly Holliday a bit. You have to think ahead, and you can’t have an OF next year of Ludwick, Ank, Rasmus, Skip, and Duncan…..too many lefties that can’t hit lefties. That has to play into any decisions. I’d love to see us move a couple of guys, namely Ank and Duncan, move Skip to a 4th OF spot, and land a solid, more consistent righthanded hitting OF.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

please

no more outfielders

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Like I said.....

IF Rasmus is ready to start the year in the Majors, I’d like to see us move Ank and Duncan.

You start a guy LIKE Bay in LF, Rasmus in CF, and Ludwick in RF. Skip and Mather on the bench. You could probably make the same moves even if Rasmus started in AAA, just start Skip, and call up Barton.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd much rather worry about pitching and MIF

than worry about one of the our team strengths

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would agree

After watching 2 seasons in a row of hollow AB’s by our MIF I think that has to be a priority. But there are some business models that have found success by maximizing your strengths as opposed to strengthening your weaknesses. The Colts are one example. They made their offense such a strength that the defense didn’t have to do much. The defense is servicable but the jsut keep using those draft picks to maximize Peyton and his side of the ball.

by rlgosnell on Aug 27, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

which begs the question

what the hell do we do with 9 outfielders or whatever if we get another one?

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

heh

Skip for 2B!

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would be totally for that

because Skip is a great athlete and could easily be formed as a second baseman. The problem is, he cannot play second base because he is left handed

When the time comes for me to not be bothered by losing that is when I know it is time to retire my fandom

by ANDYAK47 on Aug 27, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

skip is RH..... he bats LH

Where is Tackle box when we need him……..

at some point 2B became the position where you just throw a guy. I am guessing skip was moved away from 2B because he was not verry good at it.

by ICbirdfan on Aug 27, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

ah just throw him in there

he’ll be fine

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sooner

I don’t know whether the OF is the place to solve the problem or not, but we definitely need to do better against LHPs. Since that usually means a RH batter, I am all for acquiring another hitter as long as they can hit LHPs. I think that our collective poor perfomance against LHPs could be one of the key reasons the offense is “streaky”.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 27, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

good point

didn’t realize we were that bad vs. lefties

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

The point above was that Carp cannot be counted on. Which I agreed to.

An OF of Ludwick, Ankiel, Rasmus, Mather and Barton (Duncan has been supplanted) is fine and more reliable than a rotation of Carp, Waino and Colonel – 2 of 3 spent extended time on the DL this year and the 3rd has spent some time on the DL this year.

by rlgosnell on Aug 27, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree about the OF.....

You’ve got a guy that is having a career year, another young hitter that has struggled at times this year and has alot of holes in his swing, a young guy that tends to struggle every time he is bumped up for a few months, and struggled in AAA this year, another guy that is better off on the bench rather than starting, and Barton who could really use some regular AB’s in AAA. And if you replace Barton with Duncan, then you have a big question mark there.

I’m not saying we don’t need to add a SP, I just don’t think it has to be a stud. And I hope to God it doesn’t have to be a stud, b/c our chances of landing any of them, save maybe AJ, are slim to none. You really think we’ll pony up for CC? Or pony up for another oft-injured guy like Sheets? Not sure who else I’d consider front of the line, that will be available and affordable. I’d rather go with those three, you probably have to plug Joel in at the 5th starter spot, and either sign a guy like Looper for the 4th spot, or see what Garcia/Boggs/Todd can do.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

No I dont think we will get Sabathia or Sheets.

I think one will stay a Brewer and the other will be in the AL East. But if Carp pitches close to 200 innings ever again it will be a major surprise, if not a minor miracle. Ludwick is cost controlled and so is Ankiel to a degree. When they leave Jay, Jones and Mather are lined up as replacements. The replacement factor between those guys or even between a Jason Bay type is far smaller than Boggs or Garcia to even AJ Burnett.

by rlgosnell on Aug 27, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Sheets stays with the Brewers; I think LA Angels sign

Sabathia. Burnett opts in at Toronto or ends up with Baltimore. Lowe goes back to Boston. Arroyo gets traded to the Yankees. We get Carl Pavano or Mike Hampton. They were very good in 2003……

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Aug 27, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting

I quibble because I care….

The Red Sox aren’t going to sign Derek Lowe. They already have four starters under contract for next year (Beckett, Dice-K, Buchholz, and Lester) and will most likely re-up with Wakefield again to round out their rotation. If I was a betting man, I’d bet he ends up back in LA.

Burnett will be out of Toronto, he pretty well hates it there and has been durable this season, so most likely he’ll look for another big 4-5 year deal since this is his last chance to get paid. He’ll go to the highest bidder, just like last time. Hard telling who that’s going to be, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he ended up in Cincinnati.

The Brewers aren’t throwing a pile of money at Sheets when they have Gallardo coming back from an ACL tear and Villenueva to fill their rotation for next year. They have to worry more about signing their young talent in the middle infield and keeping Prince happy - they have enough pitching. Sheets will end up with whoever gives him more than 3 years at $12$15 million per year.

Sabathia is the huge wildcard here. I don’t think that the Angels sign him. They don’t really need him and they got burned the last time they went after a former Indian Cy Young winner. I think the Yankees are going to be selling out to go after him since Mussina and Pettite are probably close to retirement and they don’t know what to expect from the kids (Hughes, Kennedy, and Joba) just yet. The Mets and Phillies would also have to be interested because they are clubs that are built to win right now. I also think that Florida may be in the mix on him because of all their young talent and the fact that they could sign him to a 6-7 year deal, go hard after it for two years, and then be in total sell off mode after that.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 27, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't totally disagree with you...

but if we’re going to go after a big OFer we better be moving 2 of Skip, Mather and Ankiel for a MIF and/or SP. It makes little sense to me to add to an already crowded OF when we have much bigger holes to fill.

by cardzfanbub on Aug 27, 2008 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't see how taking two OFs away

and adding one is adding to an already crowded OF. I am bullish on both Mather and Barton, but I don’t think it would be fair to describe either one as an impact bat. I wonder about Mather’s ability to hit LHPs. So far he has a huge reverse split (.909 OPS v. RHPs, .688 v. LHPs) and he had a mild negative split in AAA.

Sooner, I can’t really argue your reference to Ludwick as having a career year, but I hope you are wrong. It seems like he has been adjusting to the league better than the league has adjusted to him, but I guess we won’t know until next year. Last night’s game said he had a .285 or so average when he made the all-star team and has been hitting .325 since.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 27, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh.....

I don’t disagree. I certainly hope he keeps it up too, and I certainly think it’s possible that he does, just pointing out that it is a question mark.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess I should have been more clear...

I’m saying if we add an OFer we better move at least two…otherwise we’re compounding an existing problem – even if it is a good problem, while not fixing other problems (MIF and SP).

by cardzfanbub on Aug 28, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes....

If the team pulls the whole just wait on Carp thing it’s going to be a mistake. How long did it take the Cubs to realize they could not rely on Wood and Prior as starters and actually picked up pitchers in the offseason?

The Cards can not make the mistake of relying on Carp, it will be a waste of 2009 if they do so.

by ICbirdfan on Aug 27, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Apples and oranges.....

I think the team should have a pretty good idea this winter of what Carp’s health is like. Obviously, any moves are based on that.

by SoonerfanTU on Aug 27, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

They had a pretty good idea that he would be back after the all star break this year.

I dont think ‘counting’ on someone who has a severe injury history to anchor your rotation is wise, but that’s just me. I love Carp and will tell my kids about his Gibson-esque run in 05 but he will be 34 next year and has pitched 200 innings 3 times.

by rlgosnell on Aug 27, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whatever should or shouldn't happen

you can bet the ownership/front office will plan on getting a return from him next year. I mean, we actually counted on getting a lift from Mulder and Carp is not nearly as bad off as him.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 27, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Having Carpenter come back

will be just like having traded for Sabathia!

Having Mulder come back will be just like having traded for Harden!

Having Ty Johnson come back will be just like having traded for Will Ohman!

Having….aw crap, never mind.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dont think they have been 'counting' on him

I just think the approach they took with the plan B is flawed. It seems they took a shotgun approach with a bunch of broken down guys like Mulder, Clement, Carp, etc. in the hope that one or two would stick instead of getting a guy who is actually good.

by rlgosnell on Aug 27, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

um,

I think Mr. Mo would gladly do and can do these things.

HOWEVER, Mr. DeWitt needs to open Dewallet before Mr. Mo goes and does this.

I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck

by bukowski on Aug 27, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I Felt Sorry For Wellemeyer

last night, right from the get-go with the blooper-filled first inning and phantom “nicked the shirtsleeve” HBP. He certainly didn’t lose the game for us, nor did TLR’s deciision to put him out in their seventh. By then, the game was basically over.

I DO take exception to our manager’s decision to not only play but bat cleanup an injured player who can’t hit or field, at this point. I fear LaRussa’s biggest fault at times is his inability to put favorite players on the bench. He loves Ankiel and has enormous respect for what he’s done with his career. He did the same with Izzy, and we know how many games that cost us!

Putting Ank cleanup last night not only ruined several scoring opportunities but also took the bat out of Albert’s hands worse than I’ve ever seen it, and we I know he deals with that a lot. But come on – bat a guy right after Albert who couldn’t even hit the Atlanta Braves?

Anyway, I’ll keep thinking of Colorado’s surge last year or the Mets collapse……and still have hope……but with the Phils now added to the picture, it’s hard to have a lot of optimism right now.

by ccthemovieman on Aug 27, 2008 1:26 PM EDT reply actions  

after last night

my high hopes were dashed, albeit not altogether. tonight is another huge game, and it’ll be interesting to see if we can avoid being embarrassed at home again by the Milawahkay brewers. If nothing else, I think we will at least stay within striking distance until the last couple of weeks, but will barely miss the playoffs in all likelihood. which doesn’t mean the rest of the season won’t be very entertaining, interesting, and more just like the rest of the season has been. although they haven’t really done it all year, how thrilling would it be to see them put together like a 7 or 8 game win streak? they deserve it for playing with a lot of vigor. Also, we have two extremely good seasons to watch with Pujols and Ludwick thudding away at the ball. Since this has been a supposed overachieving team, this may bolster Pujols’ (and maybe even Ludwicks?) chances at an MVP award, as meaningless as that may be. Not to mention we have two very interesting hurlers in the bullpen in Perez and McClellan, and it’ll be interesting to see how things shape up for ’09 in the remaining weeks.

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 1:32 PM EDT reply actions  

if albert wins the mvp award and the cards don't make the postseason

will he still say that the award should go to a player on a playoff team? or does that only apply when he doesn’t win it?

by adiueordie on Aug 27, 2008 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Knowing Albert

He would probably still say that, because that’s the type of guy that he is.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 27, 2008 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe

i thought he was just complaining that he didn’t win it in 06

by adiueordie on Aug 27, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

That may be

But he had a legit complaint that year. He had the best non-Bonds season in the last 20 years that year and lost to a guy who hit 58 homers playing in a bandbox, who’s team didn’t make the playoffs. Voters simply were tired of the same guy winning it year over year and Howard hit more homers and drove in more runs, so everyone voted for the new guy. A similar thing happened in the American League that year when David Ortiz hit 54 homers and carried the Red Sox all season, only to watch Justin Morneau win the MVP with what was clearly a worse season.

Albert is having an even better year this year, in my opinion, leading the majors in OBP, slugging, OPS+, Runs Created, Adjusted Batting Runs, and # of Times on Base. He is one point behind Chipper for the batting lead as well.

Voters simply say that you could give it to Albert every single year because he’s that good, so we should vote for the guy who may not ever have a season like that again, which is why Howard won in 2006. Pujols gets hurt by consistently being the best hitter in the league because people forget how incredibly good he really is.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 27, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not in the Cards

Many of us have seen it coming for weeks now. The Redbirds have blown so many games they should have won, and have won very few they should have lost. At some point you just gotta throw in the towel and realize it just ain’t gonna happen…..this team is not playoff caliber. Last night’s ugly loss put the final nail in the coffin. Yes, I will continue the nightly ritual but I’m not gonna expect anything more from this club. It’s been an entertaining summer. Who would have ever thought that Ryan Ludwick would turn out to be the team’s MVP and that his story would overshadow the Natural’s. It has been great watching Yadi fulfill his potential and Schumacher blister right-handed pitching. Troy’s production and defense allowed us all to quickly forget about the oft injured and unhappy Rolen. The starting pitching was a positive surprise and was good enough but when Izzy lost it seemingly overnight, and Franklin proved that he was not the answer, too many losses had already piled up to realistically be in contention. It’s sad because this team would have been fun to watch without the late inning paranoia in close games.

by Vinegar Bend on Aug 27, 2008 1:32 PM EDT reply actions  

arb-heads

Curious,

Keeping Rick off of the DL, while clearly having a few times where he’s needed it. Is there an arb gain? I’m not clear on the nuances, but it strikes me as odd that he’s not using the dl, and with him going into his final (and arb based) year, is there a gain to keeping him around?

I get that performance doesn’t help his case for arb, but a lot of it he’s been sitting, does it factor as well?

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Aug 27, 2008 1:48 PM EDT reply actions  

to reiterate what red baron said...

It feels like every time we say this team ‘must step up,’ ‘must win this series,’ etc., they don’t. And there’s a reason for that.

Ankiel is symbolic of how the team performs in the clutch – it simply doesn’t. You could easily refer to this team as ‘the anti-clutch.’ I’d love to see how well, since May, the Cards have performed in so-called ‘must-win’ games.

We know they’ve stunk against Milwaukee and Chicago since May. Their record in the closing game of a series is atrocious. They not only seem to struggle against top-line pitchers, but fold completely. And while the Cubs and Brewers sweep the teams they should, the Cardinals can never close them out.

We have a lot of guys with somewhat gaudy stats, but by and large disappear when we need them most. The team is never going to get another Pujols or Waino – but when Mo goes shopping in the offseason, finding players who thrive under pressure should be at the top of his list. I still agree with the decision to let Eckstein go – but he was one of those guys. Trade one of our big HR/big whiff OFs for a Matt Holliday-type (’08 splits)… yessir, that’s my recommendation.

by RedbirdAvenger on Aug 27, 2008 1:57 PM EDT reply actions  

I'd be a little surprised if our slugging numbers as a team are that low.

and we’re not going to get Matt Holliday.

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

what I'm getting at

is that we our outclassed by the pitching of the cubs and brewers

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

well

I guess we should join the club, because pretty much the entire National League has been outclassed by those two pitching staffs since July 1st.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 27, 2008 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

yep

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

looks like...

we’re 9th in the league in slugging, 12th in HR total. for whatever that’s worth. i’m actually surprised – thought between pujols/glaus/ludwick/ankiel we’d be higher.

and you’re right, we won’t get holliday. it’s probably a pipe-dream to come even close – the best ‘close and late’ guys in either league are, by and large, superstars. bummer.

who’s ready for more k’s with the bases loaded in ’09!?

by RedbirdAvenger on Aug 27, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah

they are lower than I thought!

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thats it. 12th in a 3-way tie in MLB is not that bad. 2 HR's and they are in the top 10.

The problem with the lineup is that we are at the top of the NL is BA and OBP with the Cubs but trail them by almost 100 runs. We lead MLB in LOB at 7.9 per game.

by rlgosnell on Aug 27, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

aggravating!

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

looking further though

we score 4.86 runs per game and the Cubs avg 7.7 runners LOB per game while putting on more runners so that part of the equation isnt quite as bad as I thought. We do lead the league in blown saves with 27. If you take that to the league avg of 18 that nets 9 wins, without digging to find out how many blown saves we held on to convert to wins. 9 wins would mean a lot.

by rlgosnell on Aug 27, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh yes it would

if we had pitching on the level of the cubs and brewers, we could be in first place. remember part of the reason we blew so many saves is that our starters didn’t go so far into games

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Speaking of Clutch

Something has been bothering me but since it is a sacred cow kind of issue I have hesitated to bring it up. If I had the research tools at my disposal I would remain silent but my curiosity has gotten the better of me. I realize Albert hit one of the most clutch homeruns in the history of the Cardinals off of Lidge but can anybody tell me what his BA is this year with runners in scoring position as opposed to bases empty or a runner on first? How often he has driven in the runner on third with less than two out. Is there a Bill James stat that delineates meaningful RBI’s from those that really don’t figure into the game’s outcome and what percentage of Albert’s are meaningful. It is my belief from watching Albert and listening to his interactions with the press that this has been a very frustrating year for him. The opposition has given him less and less pitches he can drive so consequently he has developed bad habits of swinging at pitches that not even he can handle and trying to do too much instead of just taking his walk. I am curious as to just how clutch The Franchise has been this year.

by Vinegar Bend on Aug 27, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well said, Vinegar Bend

You can add Troy Glaus to that thought, too. For some reason, he gets a pass but I’ve lost count all season how many times he’s come up with two and/or three runners on base and flied out. With the exception of a terrific hot streak, he’s another one of these guys who has failed far, far more than he’s succeeded……then again, that’s baseball. As a team, though, the Cards have been brutal in close games this year; not exactly the mark of a playoff team. Many times, it’s been the “little” guys (Miles, etc)( who have made the clutch hits, not the “big names.”

A few lineup adjustments and a much better bullpen….and all of that can be changed for the good next year. (Gee, I hate to say “next year.”)

by ccthemovieman on Aug 27, 2008 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

as of two weeks ago

they all are.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Aug 27, 2008 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

One day change in Cards playoff odds -6.9% (baseball prospectus); now at 7.4%

Cards 7 day change: -9.0%
Brewers 7 day change: +11.2% (now at 90%)

by redrey on Aug 27, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look out, wherever!

Pretty foolish to quit a job with a top 10 newspaper when there are so few of them left. Oh well, deep thinking was never one of his strengths.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

What else would you expect...

…but an emotional & reactionary exit for the guy that specializes in emotional,reactionary columns?

by Merry CRasmus on Aug 27, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe he's going to be

Ozzie Guillen’s personal assistant. You know, pay his bills, manage his calendar, pick out his drapes…that sort of thing.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 27, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

maybe ESPN has him lined up to sit opposite that jackass Skip Bayless

I think thats a good thing for humanity bc obviously the end result of that would be they have simultaneous anuresyms and their heads proceed to explode (or implode) on camera.

by rlgosnell on Aug 27, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Skip Bayless

is Colin Cowherd in disguise.

by saladdays on Aug 27, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hope they get their own show

Something like the “Don’t Pardon the Interruption, I’m Just Smarter Than You” and put Bayless, Mariotti, Stephen A Smith, and Scoop Jackson on the set each week to “debate” various issues. Then we can all ignore that entire hour of TV and not have to worry about any of those guys just popping up in the middle of Sportscenter or some other show that we actually enjoy watching.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 27, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd call it

“Who can scream the loudest and act most outraged”

Other than the title – I wholeheartedly endorse this idea.

by Merry CRasmus on Aug 27, 2008 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even though the season for our birds

may be winding down, i’m still left with the thought, “whew…what a ride!” If one thinks hard enough, we can assemble an amazing play or game for almost every single player. I dont know if that is normal in a season, but it sure is special.

by brindled on Aug 27, 2008 3:35 PM EDT reply actions  

The Cubs are a really good team but

it would sure be nice to see them play some teams that are above .500 for a change. In August so far they have played 9 games against teams above .500 and I’m including the Astros that are barely over and have a 6-3 record in those games and 14 games against some of the worst teams in the NL going 11-3 record in those games.

I not trying to take away that they are a really good team because they are …but what is setting them apart from us is that they do dominate the weak teams in the NL. Especially the Pirates who they have flat out dominated this year. I would say that the Cubs chance of winning the division is at about 95% right now but looking at their schedule they have quite a few games coming up against teams over .500 for a change. (Phillies, Astros, Cardinals, Brewers, and Mets). It will be interesting to see how they do in the month of September and to see if they will still be the favorites in the NL come September 28. Plus we all saw what happened to the Mets last year………

by KYCards on Aug 27, 2008 3:45 PM EDT reply actions  

We'll see

The Cubs have dominated some very good competition as well this year. You guys were playing extremely well coming into Chicago. We went into Milwaukee and swept them out of their place. We swept the D-Backs earlier in the year when they were playing pretty well. The key to the continued success for the Cubs will be the ability to win on the road, which is something we’ve been doing well lately as well.

Time is an illusion--lunch time doubly so.

by snowyman28 on Aug 27, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

the thing about the 2008 Cubs

is they seem like one of those teams that racks up a ton of wins in the regular season, then fails to make it to the World Series (remember that dominant Mariners team anyone), or are swept like the 2004 Cards if they make it. but then again, they have some really good starters, and I’d put big Z at #3

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 27, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

They have

better pitching than that Mariner team did, and they play in a much better division. Our own Joel Piniero won 16 games for that Mariner team….

If I’m the Cubs I’m worried about running into a team that has great pitching and can steal a game from them at home, like the D-Backs. Their offense is so inconsistent on the road that I’d be worried to drop a Game 2 and home in a short series and then have to play 2 straight at the BOB. The Cub bullpen is just iffy enough that you don’t trust them completely, and I could easily see that whole offense go in the tank for a whole series like they did against Arizona in the playoffs last year.

If I’m the Cubs, I’m rooting for the Dodgers in the NL West and hoping that the Mets are able to pull out the East — that will be the easiest road to the World Series for them.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 27, 2008 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Cubs vs the NL East

are 16-8. That includes the ridiculous 6-0 they are over the Porland Beave—-erImean Atlanta Braves.

Phillies, before getting Blanton and Meyers back to where he should took 2 out for 3 (almost swept before losing in 10 innings).

They’ll atleast win 3 out of 4.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 27, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Cubs just win the inbetween games this year......

Like Hawk Harrelson says…..

you win 60 and you lose 60 then it comes down to what you do with the other 42.

by ICbirdfan on Aug 27, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not Exactly

The Cubs aren’t winning the inbetween games so much as they’re skewing that whole equation.

They’re actually a game below .500 in 1-run games (18-19), but they blow-out opponents far more often than they are blown-out themselves.

It’s the Brewers that are stealing all of the inbetween games.

by Ikcelaks on Aug 27, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just want to see them play some good teams for a change

I’m not trying to toot the Cardinals horn because frankly we have not played well against contenders over the past 3 months. But I want the Cubs to prove that they are indeed the NL’s best. I am curious if they can dominate against the other good NL teams so I can prepare myself for a Cubs October. As a baseball fan I am want to see if they are the real deal. They are against the Pirates, Reds and Nationals and yes even the Brewers but I think it’s time for the Cubs to get tested at some point.

by KYCards on Aug 27, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

honestly.......

I don’t really know what else the Cubs have to prove?

Their only flaw is Bob Howry has been complete ass lately. I guess the hope is Howry stays horrible, Marmol starts sucking again and they are in trouble. But otherwise I don’t really know what weakness they really have. People can bring up big Z but he is good and Cubs fans should not worry about him.

by ICbirdfan on Aug 27, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

They could win a postseason series...

It wouldn’t shock me at all if they got their butts blown out in the NLDS or NLCS.

by mattisnotfrench on Aug 27, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

They really don't have much to "prove"

but I want to see how they do when they have to play other contenders on a consistant basis. They have been feasting on Pirates, Braves, Reds and Nationals type teams enough now….it’s time to see how they do against their main post season competition like the Phillies, Mets and yes the Brewers *who they spanked last time….

by KYCards on Aug 27, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's true.....

It would be good to see them play teams that are playing well who are good. Believe me I would like to see them knocked from the play offs (yes they are making the play offs) If they miss the play offs Ron Santo will probably kill himself……

They just seem to be pretty solid, I don’t think there is any team better than them per say. Yes they have a hole or two but so does every team that will make the play offs.

by ICbirdfan on Aug 27, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not ignoring what you said HL

you are spot on their test is coming up and I don’t think it will be easy sailing for them in September like August has been. I just hope if we are indeed out of it..that the Brewers man up and actually give the Cubs some competiton like they do against everyone else.

by KYCards on Aug 27, 2008 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

They've got 29 games left

Home:
4 – Philadelphia
3 – Houston
3 – Milwaukee
3 – St. Louis

Away:
3 – St. Louis
3 – Houston
4 – New York
3 – Milwaukee

Then they’ve got a series in Cincy as well.

They will be test by fire now. They’ ve got 26 of their last 29 games vs teams that are above .500.

by Hardcore Legend on Aug 27, 2008 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

.545 Opponents weighted ave winning pct

for the Cubs. This is using the home/road winning pcts.
The other playoff teams are:

  • STL – .519
  • PHI – .506
  • MIL – 484
  • NYM – .483
  • ARI – .476
  • LAD – .446

by ubeddie on Aug 27, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

The schedule might be a factor

one thing I have noticed is that coming back from off days, the boys look a little lethargic. last week w/ Yadi and last night w/ Albert. it seems like their heads are really not in the game the first game back from an off day.
(just something I have noticed lately, or maybe it’s just coincidence)

by Supergus on Aug 27, 2008 4:49 PM EDT reply actions  

From a quick glance we’re 10-4 in games after an off day, i may have missed a couple, but I’d say they’re quite successful. Two of those losses have came in this bout of off days we’ve had (Pitt, last night) while the other game was the 18-3 drumming of the braves.

I’d be curious how teams historically do on such an aggressive off day campaign, but I think it’s fair to say they traditionally haven’t had issues post day off.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Aug 27, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

In case you haven't heard already,

Ryan Braun is wearing a special uniform to commemorate the last STL-MIL series.

by adiueordie on Aug 27, 2008 5:31 PM EDT reply actions  

sadly the last line

is when I started laughing.

- Y.2.2

by Yadi2Second on Aug 27, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Garcia down, Phelips up

link

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Aug 27, 2008 6:47 PM EDT reply actions  

Interesting...

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 27, 2008 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am officially

apologizing for the apparently super unlucky haikus that I started last night. I did not realize that the number of haikus and the suck quotient of the team were proportionally related. It will not happen again… or at least until the games aren’t so darn important.

At least he's better than Esteban Yan.

by jacksonian on Aug 27, 2008 6:54 PM EDT reply actions  

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