roster ruminations
i don’t have a whole lot to say about the big series. the cards are catching a big break by missing sabathia, but they still have to face sheets, who is pitching better than his un-acelike recent line --- 1-4, 4.36 era in his last 5 starts --- would suggest. in those 5 starts he has thrown 33 innings and allowed just 1 homer, with a k/bb approaching 4:1 and an opponent ops of .678. i’d say he’s throwing alright. he’s just not getting any support --- the brewers scored 2 runs or fewer in 4 of those 5 starts. he has thrown 168 innings this year, the most he’s logged in 4 years, but by the numbers he looks as strong as ever. todd wellemeyer, who starts for the cards, is at a career high in ip (147.1) but seems to be regaining some strength; over his last 5 starts he’s been better than sheets (3-0, 2.30 era, .665 opponent ops). welley’s getting swinging strikes again --- about 1.5 per inning over the last 5 games, which is about the ratio he had back in may when he was pitcher of the month. he has faced milwaukee twice this year and posted a 1.64 era with no record. sheets likewise has no record vs st louis this season; his career mark is 5-14 with a 4.20 era.
since there’s not a whole lot of news to report, i’ll toss out a question: who do you think the cards will / should call up next week when the rosters expand? they can only add people who are on the 40 man roster, which is here; you’ll note that it doesn’t include colby rasmus (who began his rehab assignment in the gcl last night and hit a homer) or jess todd, two guys who might have their uses down the stretch. it also doesn’t include any catchers beyond the two who are already on the active roster; it’d be nice to have a 3d one in september. but to add one (or to add rasmus or todd) they’ll have to move somebody off the 40-man --- fortunately that shouldn’t be any problem. blake hawksworth no longer seems to merit a spot, nor rico washington; i don’t know if the club considers jarrett hoffpauir a part of their future plans anymore, but i’d rather see brian barden get his spot. izzy can be moved to the 60-day dl, which would open up a spot (they would not, and should not, humiliate the guy by releasing him); ditto for mulder and mike parisi. so they can clear up to 6 spots if they want to. and, of course, a number of the leading candidates for promotion are already on the 40-man and thus can be recalled without any corresponding moves. here’s a list of possibilities:
| on 40-man | off 40-man |
|---|---|
| mitch boggs | colby rasmus |
| jason motte | jess todd |
| brendan ryan | josh kinney |
| randy flores | bryan anderson |
| kelvin jimenez | josh phelps |
| mark worrell | brian barden |
| nick stavinoha | david freese |
| brett wallace |
let’s start with the hitters. wallace is hitting the snot out of the ball and might very well be ready to hit big-league pitching, but i can’t see them activating him; it’ll require them to put him on the 40-man next season, which would be a waste of a spot. i also am not certain they’ll activate rasmus; he is rusty, and he wasn’t doing all that well when he went out. which outfielder is he gonna take at-bats away from? i’m pretty sure he will have to be added to the 40-man next year anyway (even if he’s in the minors), so you could argue they might as well do it now; if they fall out of contention, he can take a few swings and get his feet wet. that’ll be an interesting call.
they clearly need another shortstop who can play the position; hello, brendan ryan. i also would like to see them add another catcher, which would free up molina or larue (both useful hitters) for pinch-hitting duty; i’ve listed bryan anderson here, but the call (if it goes out) might actually go to mark johnson, who is a capable receiver and has big-league experience. anderson’s average is down to .284, and he still hasn’t shown any power; the guy is very young and needs more time. stavinoha probably will be recalled for pinch-hitting purposes (he’s already on the 40, so why not), and i don’t see why you wouldn’t want josh phelps around; he’s got an ops in the 1.100 range since july 1, and he’s had success in the big leagues. brian barden? they said if he and rasmus played in the olympics they wouldn’t get called up in september, and with felipe lopez now on hand i’m not sure barden adds anything. i can take him or leave him.
pitchers: boggs, jimenez, and flores are automatics. all are on the 40 and can sop up surplus innings where necessary. kinney probably will be added as well and might see action in some meaningful situations if he’s throwing well; he’s been on the 60-day dl, which means technically he’s not on the 40-man, so they’ll have to bump somebody to put him on. i’d like to see what motte can do, and i bet the club is curious too, but i’m not sure whether to expect a callup; it’s already pretty damn crowded down there. ditto worrell. re jess todd, they’re facing the same situation they face with brett wallace: if they call him up they’ll have to include him on the 40-man next year, whereas otherwise they can leave him off without penalty. so no go --- they can get a look at him next spring.
so this leaves me with the following list:
- ryan
- johnson
- phelps
- stavinoha
- kinney
- boggs
- jimenez
- flores
i’m away from the laptop all day today; game thread will be pre-programmed. c’mon cards, keep us interested.
0 recs |
373 comments
Comments
Jimenez?!?!
He shouldn’t be in the Card’s organization at all at this point let alone getting a September call up. Come on!
Milt Thompson FTW!
by gossard56 on
Aug 26, 2008 9:59 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
they need innings
bullpen fatigue has been a major factor all season. you don’t use a guy like this in an important situation. you use him to protect the important relievers. he’s pitched very well at triple A for two years and throws a good slider; lousy results in the big leagues so far, but it’s only been 50 innings.
who would you call up?
by lboros on
Aug 26, 2008 10:07 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I agree
but I think that if you’re calling up Boggs and Kinney, coupled with Thompson, who’s already on the roster, you have 2 long relief guys and a middle reliever. That should be enough to counter the bullpen fatigue.
As I said below, I’d like to see Motte instead of Jiminez since he’s been so dominant at AAA in the second half.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Aug 26, 2008 10:14 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
i haven't concluded yet
that jimenez’s value equals zero. his AAA numbers are sharp, and he has a big-league out pitch; his MLB results have sucked so far, but it’s only 50 innings. the cards will lose two RHP (izzy and springer) from next year’s bullpen; go ahead and holler at me, but i think jimenez should be given a chance to fight for a job in spring training in 2009. the only reliever who’s clearly ahead of him is motte; mark worrell doesn’t have big-league stuff, kinney may not be healthy (and is a very similar pitcher i might add), and salas / gregerson / et al are all double A guys who need more experience.
i don’t think jimenez is or ever will be an important player, but he might be useful in a limited role. i think they should still evaluate the guy. why throw him away? some players need more than one chance to get it togehter (viz. todd wellemeyer and ryan ludwick on the current roster).
.
by lboros on
Aug 26, 2008 10:59 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Thank you.....
Glad I’m not the only one that feels that way about Worrell.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 11:03 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Count me among
those unimpressed with Worrell. I am willing to take another look, but I don’t see much from him.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on
Aug 26, 2008 12:46 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Call him up as an impact bench bat
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on
Aug 26, 2008 12:46 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
heh
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Aug 26, 2008 2:24 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I think
he has a very, very “live” arm, as they say, and even after last year’s terrible debut, I was still excited about him. But after two years in a row of getting it done in AAA and then crapping the bed (in horrific fashion) in the bigs, I just can’t get behind him anymore.
I say give him another shot in spring training next year, but I’d rather not see him in the bigs again in 08.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on
Aug 26, 2008 11:04 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Hard to find much positive
to say about Jimenez’ MLB experience, but he has been pretty effective against lefties with a .192/.344/.308/.651 line in a whopping 32 PAs. I guess that counts for as much significance as the 45 PAs in which righties have buried him to the tune of .351/.432/.703/.1.135.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on
Aug 26, 2008 12:50 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I'd say his last callup went pretty well
He had 5 appearances and pitched 2 innings in 4 of them with the other being 1 2/3 innings. Had one bad outing, which was his last were he gave up 3 runs. Other than that, he only gave up 1 run. And in all honesty, he’s only had 2 bad outings this year with the other being the 5 runs he gave up in3 1/3 innings in a blowout to Pittsburgh (urgh).
Plus, if you take out that one game against Pitt, his era drops to 3.55. FWIW, which I know isn’t much. Just looks like his numbers might be skewed by one or two bad outings with little to help even it all out. Of course, I understand that that’s 2 bad outings out of 9 (which doesn’t help calm any nerves) but I’m not sure he’s going to blow up ever 4.5 appearances. Plus, he seems have the type of arm that can go on multiple days without rest.
I definitely think they need to see if he can sustain it. Heck, he’s only a right-handed relief pitcher but IMO has serious upside (channeling Hubbie Brown once again), so the damage done if he fails is minimal in roster spot and dollar-wise.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Aug 26, 2008 1:50 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
But he isn't doing well at Memphis
In his last 10 outings at Memphis, he’s given up runs in 7 of them.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 2:00 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Yeah, I know which has me scratching my head
That’s the fall back argument for him all along and now he’s not even doing it right. So, I’m at a loss, although I’d still like to see him again.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Aug 26, 2008 2:05 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I'm not totally disagreeing with you here
And I think that both of them should have a spot, because Kinney would be a long shot having only pitched in one game in the last 2 seasons. I think Jiminez has value, but, as you said, Motte has more value in the long run AND he hasn’t had a shot at big league hitters yet.
I agree, he should be given a chance to fight for a job next season, but Motte should be given a chance to show what he can do this year. His upside is far greater than that of Jiminez (purely imo).
For the record, the more I see of Worrell, the less I like him. I think some of the A and AA relievers have value but are too far away at this point to be added to the 40 man, and I think Todd is also on that list.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Aug 26, 2008 11:37 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I said it when he was up
I thought that with Worrell’s delivery, he should have been missing bats constantly until the league had a time to figure him out. And since he didn’t do that, I concluded there must be something very hittable about his “stuff”. I’d love to have a guy who is so unorthodox, it makes batters shake, but I’m not sure he’s got it.
I’d like to see him one more time, but if he still can’t miss bats, then I’m not sure what else to do with him.
I also just noticed that while he’s done pretty well at AAA the past 2 years, he also struggled in winter ball last year (albeit in only 4.2 IP). What I found interesting is that his stints in Winter ball and MLB were almost identical although it looks as if he got hit a little harder at MLB and walked more in WB. I’m not sure the level of play in winter ball, so I’m not sure what to make of it.
And once again, I am not sure what I’m seeing, but he’s had pretty high BABIP’s the last 3 stops (‘07 WB, ’08 AAA, ’08 MLB) with BABIP of .333, .341, and .438, respectively. I know St. Louis has a pretty good defense, but I’m not sure about Memphis although I thought it was pretty good too. Then again, I may be reading too much into those numbers, but they seem high to me.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Aug 26, 2008 2:03 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
his control was kinda shaky when he was up
not unexpectedly. that makes it a bit easier to hit, when you’re hitting out of a hitters count.
by longhornscardinals on
Aug 26, 2008 4:45 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Worrell may not have big league stuff
but he has been much better at getting AAA hitters out than Kelvin Jiminez. That’s gotta count for something.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 11:43 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I was at a game in Atlanta
Kelvin had a terrible time getting out AAA hitters there
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on
Aug 26, 2008 12:43 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I'm a little confused
Are you against Worrell’s pure stuff setting aside the deception or including it? He’s struck out over a batter an inning during his minor league career. His numbers are far better than Jimenez at AAA this year.
Personally, I like his “stuff” so I’m wondering where this is coming from.
by azruavatar on
Aug 26, 2008 6:14 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I would have agreed with you earlier in the season
but he was pretty effective the last time he was up. While I am uncertain as to whether he should be called up in Sept., I think he can eventually be an effective pitcher for the Cards.
by Wahoo on
Aug 26, 2008 10:48 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
How can a reliever be effective
if he has a 9:4 BB:SO ratio?
Wild, effectively wild…I guess.
Also, Jiminez since being demoted back to Memphis has an ERA of 7.94 with a 1:1 BB:SO ratio. If you combine his last two months (MLB and AAA), he’s 15:10 BB:K with 14 ER given up in 21 innings (6.00 ERA). That doesn’t include the ton of inherited runners he has given up at Memphis this month.
Kelvin Jiminez does NOT deserve another shot this year. He wasn’t effective last time up and hasn’t been effective since being sent down. He’s just awful.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 11:36 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
One bad game
Last time Jiminez was up, he had one bad game. He walked 5 in 2 innings pitched. Otherwise, he had a 4:4 K:BB in 7.1 innings pitched. His OBA goes down under .300.
I still don’t think he should ever be used if the Cardinals and their opponent are within 3-4 runs of one another, but if it’s a 10-2 game in the 3rd or something…hell yeah, let’s let him throw and save Mac or Perez or Springer for another day.
by stlfan on
Aug 26, 2008 11:42 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Isn't that what Brad Thompson is for?
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 11:45 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I know......
I thought Thompson was the whipping boy……
“brad go get your brains beat in and then make a spot start on 3 days rest”
by ICbirdfan on
Aug 26, 2008 11:51 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I thought Brad was the guy
that Tony would come out and say:
“Hey Brad, we’re all going to head on over to Shannon’s. Clean up this mess and turn out the lights when you’re done. I’m leaving Aaron in charge.”
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 12:12 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
man i'm glad your back
thats gold HL. 24K GOLD comedy.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on
Aug 26, 2008 4:21 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
4:4 K:BB is BAD
It’s not as bad as what his actual numbers are, but big league pitchers don’t have 1:1
Kosuke Fukudome: $55 million .264 .364 .384
Skip Schumaker: $Free .311 .372 .426
by joker24 on
Aug 26, 2008 12:05 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Minor League playoffs
I don’t know that Memphis is going to make the playoffs (will they?), but would that hrow a monkey wrench into things?
I guess the same could be said about Springfield, but I don’t think any of the possibilities you mentioned are playing down there. At least, none of the more likely possibilities.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 10:01 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
They were eliminated last night.
by Youneverknow on
Aug 26, 2008 10:07 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Thanks.
I was too lazy to check.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 10:08 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Nice breakdown
even if it leaves me unexcited. What options do MiLB players have to stay fresh after their seasons are over? The reason I ask is I think you have two different lists: the contention list and the non-contention list. As long as we are in contention, TLR will want to keep the callups to a relatively small number. However, if we fall out it would be interesting to see more players.
The only player I find intriguing on your 1-8 is Phelps, unless Josh Kinney is really his old self. I have a hard time believing that, but still hold out hope for the guy.
Hopefully, Jimenez and Flores won’t see any action ’cause the only way they should is if we are getting our brains beaten in.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on
Aug 26, 2008 10:02 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Callups
I’d knock Jiminez off the list and replace him with Motte. We need to know if he’s capable of starting next year in the bullpen as a set-up guy. If so, it solves some issues heading into next year and tells us whether we really need to resign a 40 year old Russ Springer as a necessity.
I’m just not sure that Kinney is going to be ready to pitch in the big leagues. He’s on the 60 day DL, so I think he can rehab in the minors for the rest of the year. Who you replace him with is a good question — you could leave Jiminez on there, but I’d like to see Freese called up as a guy who can hit and play corner infield in a pinch. He would be auditioning himself to another club somewhere as trade bait or for the Cardinals Speezer Special bench player for 2009.
I agree on Phelps — he hit well down the stretch last year with Pittsburgh and it’s nice to have a bat with pop on the bench to pinch hit, even if he can’t play a position.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Aug 26, 2008 10:06 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Same rehab rules apply
Kinney’s got 30 days from the start of his rehab assignment (which began Sunday). It’s moot, since their season ends sooner and he can be put back on the 60-day if they don’t intend to use him in September.
From Sunday’s results, I expect he’ll be helping out the ’pen next month, though, if not before then.
by liam on
Aug 26, 2008 11:04 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Right
I thought I had that calculated correctly. He could pitch the whole month of September in the minors (if played that month) and the team still wouldn’t have to call him up.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Aug 26, 2008 11:38 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
MiLB doesn't play in Sept
he would have no games to play in after a possible AA Playoffs ended
by StLHugo on
Aug 26, 2008 12:00 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Apparently
the subjunctive mood works as well on the internet as sarcasm.
by liam on
Aug 26, 2008 12:11 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
If we had understood the subjunctive
would our English have been pluperfect?
by random on
Aug 26, 2008 12:38 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
hopefully we can at least shoot for a future-perfection soon
at which time we will have understood subjunctive mood.
by mattybobo on
Aug 26, 2008 12:40 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Basdrohuiflawienf
[/head spinning]
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on
Aug 26, 2008 12:47 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Y'know
Considering I was just trying to type out gibberish, the subject of my post actually looks like it could be a real word. Maybe some sort of Scandinavian/German hybrid. Must be the small amount of Swedish blood in me rearing its ugly (and melanin-less) head.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on
Aug 26, 2008 12:59 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
The rest of it
seems pretty Scandinavian/German as well. Interesting.
by stlfan on
Aug 26, 2008 2:27 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Amaury Marti speaks Old English
and hit a three-run homer off Grendel’s fastball. It won’t happen, but boy would I love for Marti to get a call up in September.
by random on
Aug 26, 2008 1:06 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
he wields Mjolnir itself, magically transformed into the shape of a baseball bat
given to him by a squadron of valkyries sent by Thor
by mattybobo on
Aug 26, 2008 1:08 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
It's threads like these...
that keep me coming back for more! Seriously, where else can you go to find a discussion that transitions from september call ups to subjunctives to a Beowulf reference to Norse mythology? Quite impressive.
by launchshuttle on
Aug 26, 2008 1:44 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I think the call-up list.....
Depends on if we stay in contention or not.
So long as we do, I wouldn’t mind seeing the guys like Jiminez/Flores/Boggs come up and eat meaningless innings. Also wouldn’t mind seeing a guy like Phelps, or Ryan, pretty much guys that have experience. Kinney would be fine too. Freese is interesting. He probably deserves a shot, but again, hard to get him many AB’s if we’re still contending. Wouldn’t have a problem with Stavi also.
I’m not ready to say if Motte deserves a shot or not, I just don’t know. I tend to be more conservative though, and I wouldn’t mind waiting until next year, giving him a little more time to work on that 2nd pitch.
If we start fading though, all bets are off. At that point, guys like Freese, maybe Anderson and Motte, Worrell, Barden and Todd start making a little sense.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 10:14 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
It would shock me if Ryan is not called up
Does anyone know how many innings he played at second in Memphis snice being sent down? Or where the best place to look is?
by Evilfrog on
Aug 26, 2008 10:19 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Played quite a bit in the OF, too
looks like someone is being groomed as a future super-sub.
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on
Aug 26, 2008 10:28 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I really don't see a future for Ryan in STL...........
Seems odd they are trying him in the OF….
What future does Ryan have unless he plays SS next year. I would guess he is not palying SS next year if he goes to AAA and plays everywhere except SS.
His offense is not good either.
by ICbirdfan on
Aug 26, 2008 11:35 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Budget purposes might keep him
Miles is having a good year and might price himself out of a spot. A strong spring from BR showing off the bat could get him a spot on the team to be that super sub.
by ubeddie on
Aug 26, 2008 11:37 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
"Miles is having a good year and might price himself out of a spot."
Not saying I disagree with you, but that may be the strangest thing ever written on VEB
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on
Aug 26, 2008 12:50 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Really for just one reason:
He can’t hit. If he could, he could have Miles’s job. But he can’t.
by Red in Chicago on
Aug 26, 2008 11:51 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Miles and Ryan both have
a career OPS+ of 76. Neither can hit, but Ryan is cheap.
Ryan isn’t as good as he was last year, and he isn’t as bad as he was this year. Miles is definitely not as good as he’s been this year. The only advantages Miles really has is that he’s a player-coach who switch hits.
"..and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped." -Sir Belvedere
by SleepyCA on
Aug 26, 2008 12:06 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Maybe Lopez fills the.....
switch hitting role next year.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 12:24 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Would you rather have Ryan pinch-hitting in the bottom of the eighth
with men on, or Miles?
by Red in Chicago on
Aug 26, 2008 12:56 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Furcal
Space.
It's a problem we face.
So we never go anywhere.
We just stay in one place.
by hazel on
Aug 26, 2008 1:41 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Furcal has as much chance at hitting in the bottom of the 8th
in a major league game as I do.
But, if we’re going to play this game, I choose Dave Concepcion!!!
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Aug 26, 2008 2:16 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Don't forget
that he also has to moonlight as a superhero crime fighter going by the name “Grit”. Wouldn’t he look really cool as the Punisher’s sidekick?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
Aug 26, 2008 4:15 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Ryan in the minors
on the season, he has played 7 at 2nd, 6 at SS, 6 in the OF.
by stlfan on
Aug 26, 2008 11:46 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
In unrelated/uninteresting (to anyone but me) news...
… my 2006 World Series DVD set arrived yesterday and – get this – it was missing the Game 5 disc. The whole think was wrapped in cellophane (I realize this doesn’t always mean “brand new”) but it only had 7 of the 8 discs!
I have contacted the seller to ask what needs to be done to rectify the situation.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on
Aug 26, 2008 10:26 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
You do know how it ends, right?
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on
Aug 26, 2008 10:28 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
How it ends...
… is the reason I bought the set!
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on
Aug 26, 2008 10:29 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Yeah
of all the discs to be missing . . .
by Ray Lankford on
Aug 26, 2008 11:07 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Well
Maybe it’s actually game 4 that’s missing, since Game 5 was Game 4 and Game 4 was Game 5. I lucked out with that one, getting to watch the Cards win it with my Game 4 ticket…
by Yellow Dog on
Aug 26, 2008 11:15 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I hope the seller doesn't try to pull that trick on me...
I wouldn’t even know how to respond.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on
Aug 26, 2008 11:19 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
My Busch II: Greatest game set came in yesterday
and they were all in there. Im still waiting on my WS: 06 set. Hopefully, it contains all the discs it requires. I’m with you, I dont know if I would know how to respond. Hopefully civility would reign.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on
Aug 26, 2008 11:26 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
*Greatest Games
duh!
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on
Aug 26, 2008 11:26 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I was about to ask which one they chose.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Aug 26, 2008 2:17 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I was one of the unfortunate one's that had a Game 5 ticket...
I purposely picked Game 5 because I thought it had more of a chance of being the clincher and then I got screwed :)
by outraged on
Aug 26, 2008 11:59 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
You got to be at a World Series game
I didn’t. So quit yer bitchin’!! lol
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on
Aug 26, 2008 12:52 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I got backwards screwed too
Would’ve had second-row seats behind the away dugout for the clincher…
Sigh…
by mojowo11 on
Aug 26, 2008 6:44 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I also learned...
… it is not polite to complain to the Cubs fan in your office about the disc with the clinching game being missing from the World Series DVD set.
Fun, but not polite.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on
Aug 26, 2008 11:34 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Don't contact the seller
contact the company that made the disc.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 11:40 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
agree with H.L.
you need to contact SOMEBODY, and they should be prepared to make it right…no way you should have to accept an incomplete set.
by tbell61 on
Aug 26, 2008 12:29 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Well...
I think the first people I should contact are the people that sold it to me, which I have done. If I do not hear back from them, I will report them to Amazon, and I think Amazon will also reimburse me per their third-party seller policy. But I am going to give the seller the opportunity to make things right first.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on
Aug 26, 2008 1:04 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Why would you report them to Amazon?
It isn’t their fault the disc is missing. It’s the manufacturers. If the seller is out of DVD sets, you might get your money back but you aren’t ever going to get that set for that cheap again.
If you want to keep the set, your best bet is to contact A&E Home Video (I think) and ask for a replacement disc.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 1:23 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I don't know whose fault it is...
… but the seller is my first contact point. If they respond to my inquiry and tell me to take it up with the manufacturer, then that is what I will do. If they refuse to even respond to me, then I have a problem with them and won’t hesitate to let Amazon know.
Why would I not contact the seller?
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on
Aug 26, 2008 1:38 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I mean, yes, you can contact the seller
I shouldn’t have said it like that.
What I meant was, if you want the set to be fixed…you have to contact the manufacturer. The seller won’t have extra Game 5 discs laying around.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 1:45 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Who knows?
If they are selling official MLB merchandise made by A&E, they may have some sort of agreement with the manufacturer/distributor regarding damaged/defective products. It seems to me that the logical place for me to address the problem I have right now is with the merchant who sold me the product that did not arrive as advertised. I would hope they could simply replace what I purchased from them, or if not, give me a refund.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on
Aug 26, 2008 1:49 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
True, perhaps
If the seller is an actual merchant instead of just someone selling an extra DVD, then they very well may be able to replace it without getting the manufacturer involved.
by saladdays on
Aug 26, 2008 1:55 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Of course, they can give you a refund
but is that what you want? Isn’t this part of that deal you guys had where you were getting the sets for $20?
1-888-423-1212 is the phone number for A&E’s customer service.
By that guy having all those DVDs for cheap, he is probably a wholesaler for someone who will get DVDs that bigger online stores or even A&E are dumping to try and clear out stock.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 1:57 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Appreciate the info
I will give the seller the chance to make things right. If they refuse to help me, I will go to A&E (and if they refuse to even respond to me I will also report the seller to Amazon.)
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on
Aug 26, 2008 2:01 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Update:
Got an e-mail from the seller:
hello-i think it was packed wrong from the studio and i am sold out of this title-so if you want to send it back for a full refund that will be fine or we can take $4.00 off of your purchase-either way works for us-sorry about the trouble
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on
Aug 26, 2008 3:32 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
get your 4 bucks and then take it up with the manufacturer
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Aug 26, 2008 3:33 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
On hold now...
… hopefully A&E can help me out.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on
Aug 26, 2008 3:40 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Tell them you bought a new product
from Amazon.com and when you opened up the shrink wrapped set, the disc for Game 5 was missing.
Be sure to have the package next to you so you can give them the product number, etc.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 3:41 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
A&E is completely out of this set...
… Rats. Guess I will just send the whole thing back and start over on Amazon.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on
Aug 26, 2008 3:47 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Even replacement discs?
That seems odd.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 3:50 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Customer service said...
… they only sold them as sets and they are completely out of them.
I am ordering again on Amazon, this time from a different seller. It is a little more expensive than my previous deal (I shouldn’t have told everyone here about the bargains until I had mine in hand!) but still a lot better than $80.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on
Aug 26, 2008 3:58 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Geez, birdjam
Now I feel guilty that I got a complete set and the guy that tipped us off (you!) got shafted…should I send you my set??
by tbell61 on
Aug 26, 2008 5:53 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Yes, please
Just kidding. Glad I could help my fellow Cards fans. And I will get my full set… eventually.
Lou Brock loves Lamp.
by birdjam on
Aug 26, 2008 5:55 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
It was a hot selling set
I know they didn’t last long on the shelves here in KY.
by KYCards on
Aug 26, 2008 3:58 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I just got my set today...
and all the disks are there…anybody know what is on that bonus disk?
by tbell61 on
Aug 26, 2008 5:52 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
My hopes for call ups
In order of importance (with asterisks designating non-realistic call ups that I would still like to see)
Phelps
Motte
Anderson*
Worrell
Ryan
Boggs
Rasmus*
Stavinohiovavaova
Wallace*
Flores
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on
Aug 26, 2008 10:32 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
i agree
Phelps HAS to come up. we need that threat off the bench down the stretch. hell call him up today since memphis is offically eliminated. Kennedy looks a little “gimpy” and needs to be DL’ed, do it now!
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on
Aug 26, 2008 10:37 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
What is the deal going to be with Barton?
Will the DL him or just ride it out for five more days until rosters expand?
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on
Aug 26, 2008 10:43 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
SWAG
(Scientific Wild Guess) He was scheduled for treatment yesterday; if he cannot play, he’s DL’ed… if he can play, he’ll be in the starting lineup tomorrow night against the lefthander.
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on
Aug 26, 2008 10:49 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
He played through it effectively on Sunday, I’m betting they let him do it again tomorrow, with Skip replacing him when the starter exits.
by liam on
Aug 26, 2008 11:07 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Can somebody rehash the rules about post-season eligibility
for me? I would think at least a guy or two on the list might be someone we would like on the bench. Or maybe it is better to stick with four MIs…
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on
Aug 26, 2008 12:58 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Have to be on the active roster or one of the DLs on Aug31
or anybody in the org can replace someone on the DL for a series.
So there are basically no eligibility conditions, given a curiously misplaced “Wet Floor” sign.
by liam on
Aug 26, 2008 1:17 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
wouldn't that be SWIG?
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Aug 26, 2008 2:57 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
He was being polite, while appealing to us crass types who filled in the wild-assed-ness of it all.
by liam on
Aug 26, 2008 3:01 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
That's the G rated definition
The PG-13 rated definition was derived from where most of the guesses are obtained, as in “pulled that one out of my *”.
by ubeddie on
Aug 26, 2008 3:02 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I'd call Wallace up
If he hits, I’d keep him up starting next season.
I could easily see him hitting .280 with 20 HRs next season alone if he’s up all season.
by craig3410 on
Aug 26, 2008 10:46 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Where is he going to play?
Both this season and next?
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 10:47 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Where will we be playing him?
Are we going to be moving Glaus over to short or something? Wallace probably needs some thime to work on his defense…he can get some big league innings if Troy gets hurt.
by cardzfanbub on
Aug 26, 2008 10:48 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Don't you know anything
move Glaus to 2nd.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Aug 26, 2008 10:52 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Soon
the whole team will be nothing but second basemen
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on
Aug 26, 2008 10:56 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Why not, even blind man can play second?
Just get him a dog with fast reflexes and a large glove.
by Red in Chicago on
Aug 26, 2008 11:29 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I can play second base walking on my hands and throwing with my feet
Batting that way too
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on
Aug 26, 2008 12:54 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Well Puj already is a 2B
And pretty much everyone else has played there. Why not!!!!!!!
Kosuke Fukudome: $55 million .264 .364 .384
Skip Schumaker: $Free .311 .372 .426
by joker24 on
Aug 26, 2008 12:08 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
In the grand scheme of things
We’re all 2nd basemen playing out of position……
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Aug 26, 2008 2:21 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Can I use that...
in my tag line?
by cardzfanbub on
Aug 26, 2008 2:46 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
It's all yours
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Aug 26, 2008 2:53 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
he won't be a regular until 2010
and he better thit more than 20 HRs at that time!
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Aug 26, 2008 2:58 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
*hit
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Aug 26, 2008 2:59 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Knew it was a typo...
and was hoping it was hit…
by cardzfanbub on
Aug 26, 2008 3:49 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Phelps could really help the team.
If Ank is still hurting, and with Barton out, we can slide Luddy to CF, move Mather to RF and put Phelps in left. The guy is flat out mashing the ball. Even if he sees a bit of a drop-off, he will still be a very valuable addition.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
Aug 26, 2008 10:48 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
you forget that Skip
would start more than Mather or Phelps.
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Aug 26, 2008 2:59 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I see him
as the first bat off the bench with a lead or the go-to guy in high leverage situations. We should have plenty of depth at all positions to use him as a designated pinch hitternot just for pitchers, but for Izturis or whoever.
One of the reasons I’d be pretty happy to see Greene as a call-up/roster-addition.
by liam on
Aug 26, 2008 3:07 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I don't think they will start the arbitration clock...
for anybody that they don’t have to unless there is a compelling point to having them available in September…I would include Wallace, Rasmus and Anderson in that category, as well as Todd among the pitchers…Phelps would be good to have for his bat, and as a third catcher…frankly, I’m not real excited about anybody else except just to have some spare bodies on the bench.
by tbell61 on
Aug 26, 2008 11:01 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
i forgot about Phelps being a catcher
and doubt he still could actually “play” the position but it wiould be nice as a third catcher option…
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on
Aug 26, 2008 11:04 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Agree
I don’t see the Cards burning a 40 man roster spot for Anderson, Rasmus, Todd and the Walruss. It is quite simply like trading a month on the roster of these guys for other guys that will need to be added at the end of the year to the 40 to protect them from the Rule 5 (think Martinez, the reliever in AA they traded for recently, Mark McCormick, Tyler Greene, et all). I think it is more likely that you “could” see a tryout for a 40 man sport for the likes of Worrell, Hoffpauir, Jimenez, Motte, et all. I don’t think the Hawk or Rico even get a tryout. I think Barden should come up, but it depends on the reports on him from SS. You would have to make a legit case that he has something to offer that Lopez does not and I don’t know if you could make that argument.
Quick Picks (not necessarily should but likely)
Phelps
Flores (YUCK)
Worrell
Jimenez (DOUBLE YUCK)
Motte
Ryan
Stavinoha
by Lawless on
Aug 26, 2008 11:41 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Rasmus, if healthy, really needs to be called up.
Purely for his psychological well-being. We’re in danger of mishandling him if we don’t, I think.
by Red in Chicago on
Aug 26, 2008 11:53 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
he knows the game
colby hasn’t yet put up the AAA numbers to deserve to be called up, and his injury cost him half the season. With our outfield logjam, and his lack of performance, he needs go to the AFL and then repeat AAA (I still think he should have started this year at AA). Based on performance, and not expectations of performance, Joe Mather deserves a shot right now; Colby does not, plain and simple. Colby will have his time, but it isn’t now.
Jim Edmonds was at least as much of a prospect as Colby; Jim was drafted out of HS and didn’t get called up until September of his age 23 year. It didn’t seem to hurt him much, and in fact he could have probably benefitted from another year of seasoning. If colby puts up a .273/.343/.377 line next year like Edmonds did in his age-24 season, after a .246/.270/.344 callup, the guys on here who hated on chris duncan and brian barton early on will have a field day. And Colby probably isn’t ready to put up even those numbers yet, based on what he’s done in AAA this year (.251/.346/.396)- that translates to a .216/.293/.327 line, using the MLE calculator. I’m aware that he was doing much better after taking the time off in June, but the injury negates the value of that considerably. If he’s called up now, he’d be rusty AND unprepared for the higher level of play. That’s a recipe for disaster.
My other concern is that if you bring Colby up too soon you risk turning him into Corey Patterson (or felix pie), who were just as heralded as a “future star” as colby when he was coming up but who was rushed by the Cubs and never developed the secondary skills needed to meet his potential. I think it’s arguable whether calling him up risks less than not calling him up does.
"..and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped." -Sir Belvedere
by SleepyCA on
Aug 26, 2008 12:47 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
+1
Due to the position Colby plays, we can be conservative in calling him up. If the dude was a 2B/SS, or pitcher, he’d probably already be on the roster due to need.
Lets enjoy the fact that we don’t have to rush him.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 12:49 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Colby's got those secondary skills already though
And then some. He was tearing it up before his knee popped.
by liam on
Aug 26, 2008 12:52 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
The difference is
Colby already knows he’s a future star. No one has to tell him that. But telling him that he isn’t is what is damaging. Everyone’s different. I certainly would agree he needs more seasoning. But in the couple of interviews he’s had since the injury, he’s really fixated on getting some ML playing time to make up for missing the Olympics. Is this silly? Yeah, probably is. But it doesn’t hurt the team (if he’s healthy), his arb clock really isn’t changed, and it would give him a little boost in the offseason. Damn right he should come up. He doesn’t have to win games, just get his feet wet and get a hit or two.
by Red in Chicago on
Aug 26, 2008 1:00 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
regarding the arb clock
giving him a september callup ties mo’s hands. if he comes up in SEP and does not make the team in the spring, september counts towards his arb time and he’ll have to stay in memphis until June to avoid being a super-two after ’10. That is pretty huge.
The business side of the argument basically boils down that if we don’t give him a callup and keep him in memphis for 2 weeks in ‘09, we can have him for one extra year before he hits FA. This is the reason Longoria didn’t get a callup last year and started the year in AAA- it gave the rays a tremendous negotiation position, and is a big part of why he signed such a favorable contract.
IMO it just doesn’t make sense from either a player development perspective or a business perspective.
"..and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped." -Sir Belvedere
by SleepyCA on
Aug 26, 2008 2:33 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I thought the arguement was
that he was sent down until June of THIS year so that we could get an extra year of him?
How many season can we punt this thing to keep him around?
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 2:38 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
if that's a serious question
we can technically “punt this thing” 2-3 more years. He’ll be out of options after 2010 (maybe 2011, not 100% sure if 2005 counts), but he’s under our control until then. Once he makes the MLB team, we’ll control him for 6 years, whether he makes the team in 2008 or in 2010. So we can control him from age 21-27, or age 24-30, depending on when we add him to the 40-man and bring him up to the big leagues.
if he had shown that he had nothing to learn at AAA, it wouldn’t even be an issue in my mind. But we have 4 guys on the MLB team with better MLB numbers than he had at AAA this year, and 3 of them can play CF (and Luddy could in a pinch). There is no urgency, and it’ll probably make a better player out of him to wait another season. That second bit trumps the arb clock argument in my mind, though it may not in Mo’s, and is definitely arguable (for every edmonds and beltran there’s a sizemore) and if I thought another year at AAA would hurt Colby, I’d be on the “get him to STL” bandwagon, but I just don’t see how it’d hurt him.
"..and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped." -Sir Belvedere
by SleepyCA on
Aug 26, 2008 2:55 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
totally agree
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Aug 26, 2008 3:02 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
He earned his spot on the team in the spring
and got demoted anyways. I doubt ‘deserves to’ plays into decisions at all.
If only he were 28 years old and had spent 2 or 3 season in AAA already, THEN we could trust him!
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 1:25 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
He was a badass this spring
he took great at-bats and visibly made opposing pitchers nervous taking his lead off first.
by liam on
Aug 26, 2008 1:33 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I agree.
And Strauss said well in advance he was “ticketed” for Memphis. TLR knew before the spring started he wasn’t coming up. Sad.
by Red in Chicago on
Aug 26, 2008 1:56 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
why is it sad?
Spring training stats are meaningless. I agree that he was a badass in the spring, in all 56 plate appearances that he had, but he obviously wasn’t ready based on what he did in AAA. Do we really think he’d have done better in MLB than he did in AAA? is it that bad that he was invited to big league camp when he didn’t have a chance to make the team? Should they have just not invited him to camp?
If he had gone on to put up a 1.000 OPS at AAA, like ludwick did after not making the team out of spring in ‘07, then I’d have sympathy. Whether it was because he was pissed at TLR and unmotivated because of all the miserable old people or whatever, or because “they messed with his swing”, or because he (gasp) maybe still had stuff to learn, he did not do well enough in AAA to justifty taking PA’s away from Joe Mather, brian barton, or even Skip at this point.
"..and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped." -Sir Belvedere
by SleepyCA on
Aug 26, 2008 2:21 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
+1
If ST was indicative of anything, Kennedy would be a stud, Ludwick would be very average, Juan Gone would be on the team, Uncle Rico would be a decent MI option, Yadi would stink, and Marti would have made the team.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 2:26 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I think his dad did him a bit of a disservice
Sure there was disappointment at being in AAA. I’ve not heard anything from Rasmus himself on the subject that I would be disappointed in though. I’m sure he wasn’t in a good mood when he was struggling early. I’m sure he said some things he now regrets to those closest around him too.
But I’m also sure that almost every player in the minors has people close to them that they confide in when they have a rough stretch. I know we probably all have people we vent to with our jobs. The difference is that everyone elses parents and friends don’t launch rants on internet message boards.
by Merry CRasmus on
Aug 26, 2008 2:39 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
to be clear
i think the answer is ( c ), “he had something to learn at memphis”. I was including the other two straw men arguments as sarcasm.
I do agree that his dad is a jerk.
"..and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped." -Sir Belvedere
by SleepyCA on
Aug 26, 2008 2:58 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I don't trust
anyone who uses that many smileys, although in his defense, I imagine he learned it from texting teen-aged baseball players. <{:’^ )
by liam on
Aug 26, 2008 3:09 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I say
put him in Arizona Fall League and let him “cook” for ST ’09. He, sadly enough, is fairly well rested. He could go there and build some solid momentum headed into Spring Training.
Like most, I believe in the guy, but to throw him on the team at this point fresh off an injury is a little absurd. Frankly, if he has some mental psyche issue with it, then we really need to look at him all over again. He can’t be sitting there thinking “man, I’ve earned the call up”.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
Aug 26, 2008 2:41 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
This is what I think will happen
He is going to the Arizona Fall League with Wallace. He needs to prove he deserves to be here by dominating everyone around him
by FlimtotheFlam on
Aug 26, 2008 3:20 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Worked for El Hombre
though he was having a nice MILB season before then
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
Aug 26, 2008 3:21 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
lol
check out this review of the cardinals prospects who were sent to the AFL in 2000:
http://www.minorleaguewatch.com/AZFall/fin-nlc00.html
“I know I proclaimed Hee Seop Choi as the top prospect earlier on this page, but I could easily be convinced to put Pujols in that category instead.”
"..and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped." -Sir Belvedere
by SleepyCA on
Aug 26, 2008 3:26 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I hesitate to say that Pujols is ready to jump to the big club in 2001. But judging from his 2000 performance, it wouldn’t surprise me if he did well given the opportunity
Heh.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
Aug 26, 2008 3:30 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
great post
I’m surprised they didn’t call him “Jose” a la the 2001 BA prospect handbook. Nice archives.
by Lawless on
Aug 26, 2008 5:41 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
It's sad because
Tony made up his mind ahead of time, presumably because of his biases against rookies. I’m totally agnostic as to the merits of his case. I just think he should have gotten a fair trial, that’s all.
by Red in Chicago on
Aug 26, 2008 3:00 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I just don't believe that.....
Because at SOME point, Rasmus is going to be just that, a rookie on the STL roster.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 3:12 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
just like McClellan and Barton
Not making the roster in Spring training for being rookies.
by Evilfrog on
Aug 26, 2008 3:18 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I don't want to turn this into another "bash LaRussa" thread
I just think Tony has a blind spot where rookies are concerned. Everyone remembers how Albert got into the lineup, right?
Barton, as you know, has to be on the ML roster or he reverts to Cleveland. McClellan pitched his ass off and he made the club. I’ll give you that one. But the fact remains that the decision on Rasmus was made way before ST ended. You can go back and look at the JSL chats and find him saying exactly that. I don’t know why, exactly, I just don’t think it should have been pre-ordained.
by Red in Chicago on
Aug 26, 2008 3:31 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Barton only made the roster because Juan's
stomach couldn’t play the OF and because we’d lose his rights.
And then he rode the bench, even though he was outperforming Skip.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 3:39 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Out performing Skip?
Maybe against lefties.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 5:04 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Thru April 30th
Skip .317 .400 .436 .836OPS 115PA
Barton .333 .409 .462 .871OPS 44PA
Skip was being out performed yet got more PAs.
by StLHugo on
Aug 26, 2008 5:09 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Probably b/c Skip was playing every day.....
And Barton was given shots when he was most likely to succeed, no?
Besides, TLR is trying to put together a team for the season, not just one game. This isn’t like football where you do everything you can to win ONE game, you have to play out a 162 game season. So picking one month to look at, and saying that b/c a guy was hitting marginally better he should have been starting is silly.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 5:12 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Reread HL's post maybe?
At that point in the season Barton was outperforming Skip, even against right handed pitching, yet he still rode the pine while skip started and Duncan floundered. Why was Barton not given more chances? I don’t know. Would Barton have performed worse if he played everday? I don’t know that either. I just know that this is what HL was referring too when he said Barton was outperforming Skip.
As for your season vs one game approach. Does that mean Skip should start against a lefty starter? I mean you can’t focus on an individual game can you? You have to play the same lineup every game of the season, because you play for the season right? I mean come on have you not watched the Cards enough to know that TLR doesn’t think anything like that?
by StLHugo on
Aug 26, 2008 5:16 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
skip did start off
0-26 in the first week or so before catching of fire.
by Evilfrog on
Aug 26, 2008 5:22 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
He had a 1 for 20 stretch in April
and a 9 for 49 stretch in May. He was dreadful at times.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 5:26 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Why exactly was Skip given the starting job?
This was the beginning of the season. If it was an open competition, Barton won it.
And it wasn’t just one month. Barton was outperforming Skip, yet was getting 100 fewer PAs than Skippy.
In the month of May, Skip hit .256 w/.304 OBP in 86 ABs, Barton hit .217 w/.321 OBP in 46 ABs. Yet Schumaker was made an everday player (only until recently) and was the team’s ‘leadoff’ hitter despite his inferior OBP.
Barton then was allowed on 37 ABs until going on the DL, Skip played everday.
It was dubbed an open competition for the OF during ST, Barton matched Skip in all the counting stats in fewer ABs, bested him in April, held his own in May and then was sent to the bench.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 5:22 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
You know.....
Sometimes stats don’t tell the entire story.
Obviously TLR saw SOMETHING that lead him to believe Skip would have the better season, and deserved most of the AB’s. At this point, it really isn’t that hard to say he was right, is it?
And again, comparing batting stats, overall at a point in time, when one player is platooning pretty much (Barton), well, of course the stats won’t look as different as the players actually are.
Which players’ stats would look better…..Skip playing just against righties, or Skip playing everyday?
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 5:27 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Which players' stats would look
better, Brian Barton just getting 37 ABs in 35 days or Brian Barton playing everyday?
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 5:39 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Fair enough.....
I’m just saying don’t compare their numbers at the date you chose, and try to say someone was playing better than someone else. It isn’t that simple.
TLR put the player out there he thought was better. Isn’t that what we pay him to do?
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 5:54 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Skip preformed fine
Really you should be aiming at why Duncan was starting of Barton. Snice he was the one really leeching ABs from barton and Ludwick at the begining of the season.
by Evilfrog on
Aug 26, 2008 5:29 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
exactly.
I remember having a heated argument over Skip playing too much in a “production based platoon”. He has grown as a hitter all in all, I’ll give him that. But frankly he was piss poor for a few week stretches. Then with the installments of Duncan it relegated a player who hasn’t played over AA to succeed in a pinch hitting role.
Wasn’t too bright.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
Aug 26, 2008 5:29 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Maybe...
MO told him that he had to keep Rasmus down to keep his options available for next year…since it was supposed to be a rebuilding year.
by stlfan on
Aug 26, 2008 3:18 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
You mean to keep his arbitration clock from starting?
I’m sure money would NEVER enter into that kind of decision. :>
by Red in Chicago on
Aug 26, 2008 3:32 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
money best enter that kind of decision.
Personally, I would rather see Colby’s tenure be productive without cost.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
Aug 26, 2008 3:43 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Mo makes the roster decisions
not Tony. Tony has input but the GM decides who stays and who goes. Tony decides if they get buried in the bullpen/bench, though.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 3:40 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Pretty sure Tony shaped the lineup
this spring. It would have been the ultimate act of hubris for Mo, after having been on the job for four months, to tell Tony what to do with the organization’s star prospect.
by Red in Chicago on
Aug 26, 2008 3:44 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
He told Tony that Anthony
was going to be on the 25 man roster. That wasn’t LaRussa’s choice.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 3:45 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Yeah, I know. But he used up his one bullet on Reyes.
by Red in Chicago on
Aug 26, 2008 4:20 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Wow....
Mo = Barney Fife
Don’t think so.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on
Aug 26, 2008 4:28 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
There is no reason in the world
to bring back Jimenez. We have seen more than enough of what he can—and more to the point—can’t do. If eating up meaningless innings is the concern, let them them be eaten by Motte and Worrell, while finding out in the process if they have the capacity to handle meaningful ones. I can live with Flores because they can use another lefthander in the bullpen and perhaps because of prior services rendered, but this should be his last Cardinal hurrah. In addition, certainly Kinney if he is ready (the person who said he should continue to rehab in the minors must be unaware that the minors conclude in another week). For the bench,Ryan, Phelps, Stavinoha, and the forgotten Marti, who once again burned up the Mexican League and might strike a useful blow off the bench, plus Anderson as third catcher (some major-league atmosphere and experience in September will be useful for him, even if he doesn’t play much). I see no real need or role for Freese or Todd this year, so why rush them to the roster now, no matter how interesting it would be to have an advance look at them? I’m sure the Cardinals will leave them off the roster and see what they can do as nonroster invitees next spring. This is even more obviously true for Wallace. Rasmus is a special case. I sense he will get the call to assuage his disappointments at not making the team this year and having to give up the Olympics;I doubt he’ll play much but , as with Anderson, the experience will be good for him.
by Mike G on
Aug 26, 2008 11:14 AM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Is Kinney ready to come back?
What is all this Kinney love? Just because he got hot at the right time people think he is the greatest thing ever…
Why don’t the Cards bring back Jeff Weaver because he was sooooooo gooooood in the play offs and World Series in 2006…
Please stop living in the past.
by ICbirdfan on
Aug 26, 2008 11:26 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
He's on a rehab
Says he feels great. Had a good first outing against a pretty solid team that ate up the rest of Springfield’s bullpen.
Quit being a party pooper!
by liam on
Aug 26, 2008 11:28 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I am sorry, but it's not 2006...........
In my ideal pen you have
1. Thompson (Long relief)
2. Villone (left batters only)
3. Springer
4. KMAC
5. Perez
I don’t think Kinney is better than Springer, KMAC or Perez……. He is not a long man/spot starter like Thompson so he has no spot.
I know he was a good story and all and peeked at the right time in 2006, but I just don’t get why he is Carlos Marmol to some people… Look he was good when it counted and I appreciate it, but I am not going to live in 2006.
by ICbirdfan on
Aug 26, 2008 11:33 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
We're talking about September call-ups
Kinney doesn’t displace anyone when rosters expand. I expect he can contribute, and it’ll make the fans happy.
by liam on
Aug 26, 2008 11:37 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I understand he would not take a roster spot, but he is not ready.
I guess I am not a “soft spot” fan. I guess I could care less if he comes up or not. If people want to see him it’s fine by me. It just seems like some talk of him like he is Carlos Marmol
by ICbirdfan on
Aug 26, 2008 11:49 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
So you're carrying 10 pitchers and 15 hitters on your team?
That seven man bench seems excessive
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on
Aug 26, 2008 2:28 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
so good!

C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on
Aug 26, 2008 11:34 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Dee ugly one!!!!
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on
Aug 26, 2008 12:55 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Downloaded Strong Bad's Cool Game For Attractive People
on the Wii the other day. Game’s good enough. It’s sad though because almost every piece of dialogue is funny, which makes the overall lack of dialogue much more noticeable, and therefore saddens me
I once shot a man just to see him die...then I got distracted and missed it.
by TheDuke32 on
Aug 26, 2008 4:24 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Forgot all about Cazana
He just finished leading his Red Devils to a victory in the Mexican League championship series as the cleanup hitter, the whole time using an unsharpened #2 pencil for a bat (and a green-haired Troll made of Osmium for the donut ring).
I’m a little bit surprised he hasn’t been recalled to Memphis, seeing as Jay and Razzle are both out.
by liam on
Aug 26, 2008 11:36 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Kinney
I didn’t mean that he could be in the minors for that time. I meant that he can be on “rehab assignment” and be pitching on the side in Memphis or St. Louis without actually being on the 40 man roster. I certainly don’t think he’s ready after ONE outing at AA, so he’ll need time to get back into pitching shape and to hone his control. He could do that in bullpen sessions on the side, similar to WW.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Aug 26, 2008 11:45 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
WW
Why is Wainwright’s nickname WW?
Adam Wainwright would be AW
Waino would just be W
Wagonmaker would just be W…
I don’t get it…someone enlighten me, please.
by stlfan on
Aug 26, 2008 11:50 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Wonderful Wins
hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit
by Alxfritz on
Aug 26, 2008 11:59 AM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
World Whacker
Doesn’t have quite the same ring as world beater
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on
Aug 26, 2008 12:56 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
duh
wainwright has 2 w’s
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Aug 26, 2008 4:02 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I think that Rasmus will get called up
He’s on a rehab assignment right now for the GCL Cards. If they weren’t going to call him up, why wouldn’t they just shut him down? I don’t see why they would rehab him so he can play less than a week at Memphis and then be done. As mentioned above, I think they may bring him up for the psychological factor. This has been a tough year for The Raz; hopefully his trials this season will make him a better ball player in the long run. Maybe Moz/Luhnow want him to finish the season on somewhat of a high note.
by iwannarock24 on
Aug 26, 2008 12:24 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
kind of off topic...
but has “anybody can be a second baseman” officially replaced “duncan to the giants for cain and lincecum” as the current hilarious inside joke at VEB? just checking, i don’t want to get behind on this stuff.
by mattybobo on
Aug 26, 2008 12:28 PM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
I played 2nd...
on my Men’s league softball team this year..does that make me the worst player on the team? I thought RF and C was where you stuck your worst players…I’m a bit depressed now.
by cardzfanbub on
Aug 26, 2008 12:36 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I played 2b
one year in Little League. Got moved to OF/1B the next year ’cause I was then “too tall” (read: slow) for 2nd. (That or because of the easy pop-up I missed at 2nd that bounced off the heel of my glove. All to the good, however, as that play forever taught me “the infield fly rule”!)
by ArkansasTravs on
Aug 26, 2008 4:27 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Gotta call up Motte
Don’t you? I just don’t see why you wouldn’t. If you don’t want to trust him in games that are within 3 runs, then I can appreciate that, though I may not agree. Still, you’d at least like to give him a few innings in mop-up, right?
If they go solely to retreads that have shown limited success in the majors, and completely ignore Motte, who’s blown away AAA hitters….well, I’ll be a little disappointed.
Other than that, I agree with the list. I might add Rasmus, but that would be more for the experience of hanging around the team.
by Merry CRasmus on
Aug 26, 2008 12:54 PM EDT
reply
actions
0 recs
Absolutely.
There was chatter on this yesterday. If he can do the job with the fastball alone, then he’s got a lot of value. If he needs a second pitch, his value may be in the future. Either way, I think you’re going to see a significant turnover in the bullpen next year. It would be very helpful to know if Motte can be in the mix before they start shopping for the next Franklinspringerhausen.
by Red in Chicago on
Aug 26, 2008 1:04 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
There aren't many.....
If any guys that can get by on one pitch alone. Big league hitters can catch up to heat, even good heat, if they know it is coming. Not saying he wouldn’t have games where he dominated, or maybe even the rest of the season, but at some point, in the near future, if he wants to spend an entire season in the bigs, he needs that 2nd pitch.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 1:16 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Is there a minor league player
in our system you do trust to play the big league level?
This is an honest question. You’ve so far over the last month said you weren’t impressed with Perez, Joe Mather can’t hit at this level, Colby Rasmus needs more time in AAA, Todd Worrell isn’t a MLB pitcher, and now Jason Motte will need a 2nd pitch (even though his AAA numbers seems to suggest that he can atleast be mlb average with just one).
Is there a prospect that you think CAN be called up to the big leagues and perform?
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 1:28 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Yeah, Rico Washington. He has five tools:
-Screwdriver
-Can opener
-Power drill
-Hacksaw
-Baseball bat (for personal protection).
by Red in Chicago on
Aug 26, 2008 1:49 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Todd Worrell is not a MLB pitcher
He’s retired.
So SoonerFan wins on that one.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on
Aug 26, 2008 2:03 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
And Todd didn't miss first.
In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.
by Tackle Box on
Aug 26, 2008 2:29 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
so do I!
it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Aug 26, 2008 4:29 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Is there a player I trust to START or get major innings?
Whilest we’re in a playoff race?
No, not really. I have nothing against Mather being on the bench. Perez has pitched better since his return. My comments about him were made BEFORE that though, and were applicable at the time.
I don’t like counting on guys that have proven nothing at the ML level, especially when we’re talking about guys that haven’t even done much in the minors, in some cases.
I just don’t understand the fascination with calling up a guy like Rasmus. He simply isn’t going to out-produce are top 4-5 OF options RIGHT NOW!!!!!
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 2:21 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
how do you know that?
By that logic, as long as you’re ‘competing’ for a playoff spot, no one in the minors should get a chance to prove their worth and potentially upgrade the big-league team. That seems to ignore the possibilities of improvement and projection. Skill isn’t a constant – more like an arc.
by Birds on the Matt on
Aug 26, 2008 3:12 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Name another team that is calling on rookies.....
That aren’t, say, top 30 or so guys, to come in and play meaningful innings?
It won’t happen, save injury.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 5:07 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Can we wait for September 1st
to answer this question?
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 5:23 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
to a lesser extent
Fukudome was 30, and Carlos Gomez was 52
by StLHugo on
Aug 26, 2008 5:29 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Huh?
How does Fukodome enter this discussion?
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 5:32 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Baseball America ranked him
as the #30 prospect in baseball coming into this season.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 5:37 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Again.....
What does that have to do with anything?
We’re talking about calling guys up at the deadline, not rookies starting the season.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 5:39 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
At least.....
That is what I have been talking about.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 5:39 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Then we'll have to look at last season
Red Sox used Ellsbury at the end of the year. Buchholz too(probably top 30). Yankees used Shelly Duncan along with Hughes and Joba (who may have been top 30). Cleveland used Cabrera. Soto still applies.
It is not unprecedented territory for a rookie to help a playoff team, even if he’s a late season call up.
by Merry CRasmus on
Aug 26, 2008 6:05 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
2006 World Series Champion St. Louis Cardinals
WS Game 1 started by a rookie
Pennant- and WS-clinching games saved by a rookie
Setup man/middle reliever was a rookie (Kinney)
Wasn’t TJ a rookie that year too?
At some point you have to choose raw talent over experienced suck
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on
Aug 26, 2008 5:33 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
yeah re: TJ
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
Aug 26, 2008 5:37 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Especially since Kinney
was an independent league signing. I’m sure he wasn’t all over the ‘prospect hot-sheets’.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 5:37 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
kinney was signed in 2001
after playing in exactly 3 independent league games. He had plenty of time to make the hot sheets after spending 5+ years in the system.
"..and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped." -Sir Belvedere
by SleepyCA on
Aug 26, 2008 5:45 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
But he wasn't
in fact, he was damaged goods.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 5:46 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
He was a AAA all-star
the year before he was called up, though.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 5:50 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I'm not talking just about rookies.....
If so, I’d be bashing K-Mac, Perez, Barton, Garcia, and every other first year player on the roster.
I’m just saying, in 99% of cases, if a guy wasn’t good enough to be on your roster before September 1st, and you don’t have a major injury or something, you probably aren’t going to bring anybody up that should be starting meaningful games.
Does anybody really want Motte pitching the 8th inning of a game against the Cubs, if we’re still chasing a playoff spot? I sure don’t, not with K-Mac, Perez, Springer, and Franklin still in the pen.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 5:38 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I'd trust Motte right now over Franklin
But none of the rest. But that’s the point of the argument. Franklin (experienced) is getting the nod over Motte (inexperienced on a MLB level)
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on
Aug 26, 2008 5:39 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Maybe b/c Franklin has earned that right?
Now Franklin sucks? My God.
He had a rough patch when he was asked to close. Other than that, he’s been pretty darn good. No way Motte would be better right now. I can say that with quite a bit of confidence.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 5:40 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
3 ER in his last 11.2 innings.....
But he sucks.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 5:42 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
14 ER in last 22
it’s suprising what you can do when you selectively choose the threshold of innings. Just in doubling the amount of innings you picked. I have 4 times the runs
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
Aug 26, 2008 5:58 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
surprising* rather
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
Aug 26, 2008 5:58 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
And players go through rough patches.....
Like I said, the period you covered covers his days as a closer, if I’m not mistaken. Obviously he didn’t do very well in that role, and he won’t have that chance again this year, so why not throw out those stats? To me, they have nothing to do with how’ll he’ll perform over the rest of the year in his current role.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 6:00 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Franklin's downfall should surprise no one
He’s posted FIPs over 5 in 2005 and 2006. He had an aberrant 2007 b/c of the limited walks and now he’s got a FIP of 4.76. Again, this should not surprise anyone.
by azruavatar on
Aug 26, 2008 6:24 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
I do believe that his ERs
do not account for the amount of inherited runs he gave up. I know he gave up a run vs the Dodgers (just off the top of my head) that they didn’t not count towards ER (because they aren’t).
But as a reliever, he still gave up that run.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 6:11 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
What part of his 1.548 WHIP spells out him "earning it"?
Or his 4.76 FIP, for that matter?
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."
by Mr Redbird on
Aug 26, 2008 5:43 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Exactly
I don’t think anyone has called for Motte to replace McClellan.
by Hardcore Legend on
Aug 26, 2008 5:40 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
alright
so Flores over Garcia? maybe even Villone over Garcia?
at some point you have to realize that inexperience has to trump suck, even if it’s late in the season and you’re in contention.
otherwise, ‘06 wouldn’t have happened.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
Aug 26, 2008 5:42 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Villone is a better LOOGY than Garcia.....
But probably not the better pitcher overall.
‘06 isn’t a proper comparison, IMO. I believe you are referencing Waino, but he was higher rated than anybody we’re currently discussing, and was on the team all year. Much like K-Mac. And to a lesser extent, Perez.
by SoonerfanTU on
Aug 26, 2008 5:45 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Villone is a better loogy than Villone when pitching outside of a loogy.
that being said, I’m sure that the marginal difference in OPS is really helping your case. (.020’ish).
I get that you’re trying to make a point, but it seems as of late you’re with stats on some things, against them on others, and frankly a lot of your comments don’t really show well compared to past comments.
Just sayin’.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
Aug 26, 2008 5:53 PM EDT
up
reply
actions
0 recs
Not at all.....
I’m not a big stats person on much of anything, especially trying to

