The MI problem

Mark Ellis

would be a great fit at 2B. The SS spot is more problematic. Everett is a terrific defender, but he’s an absolute black hole at the plate. Is that really any sort of upgrade over Izturis? How about someone like Clint Barmes from the Rockies? He’s obviously not going to be their SS (they have Tulowitzki) and they seem to like Baker as their 2B. A double-play combo of Ellis and Barmes would be solid in the field and at the plate. Ryan would be the utility guy.

(This, of course, assumes they can dump Kennedy – not an easy task.)

"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley

by TurdFerguson on Aug 20, 2008 12:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Barmes is actually a decent idea in theory, however the rockies are insanely cheap and have been unwilling to part with any of their players lately for less than a mint. Barmes is still under their control and they probably value that pretty highly.

Ellis could make $4-5+ million per year in free agency, but he is a good defender and has potential on offense. It’s up to the team and how they want to spend the money, and it also depends on grit and kennedy (who I guess they are unwilling to cut).

I’ve seen you pulling for Ellis elsewhere, right?

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Aug 20, 2008 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Probably so

But then I’m pulling for anyone who doesn’t have the last name “Kennedy” or “Izturis” on his jersey…

"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley

by TurdFerguson on Aug 20, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

kennedy, age 30, 2006 (the year before we got him): .273/.334/.384

ellis, age 31, 2008: .234/.322 /.375

i think you need to look at more than the name on the jersey…

"so if you can’t understand what someone else is saying why don’t you just shut up about it instead of being a jerk-off?"

wordiness is next to godliness

by baw on Aug 23, 2008 2:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not necessarily a huge Ellis fan

but to be fair you have to look at his road line. Oakland is a big-time pitchers’ park.

2008 road splits: .282/.355/.435
2007 road splits: .293/.357/.450

Ellis’ RZR of .897 leads the AL as does his .993 fielding percentage.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 23, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

fair ‘nuff. i’d still pass on him with confidence.

"so if you can’t understand what someone else is saying why don’t you just shut up about it instead of being a jerk-off?"

wordiness is next to godliness

by baw on Aug 23, 2008 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

still probably not worth the cost in any event.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 23, 2008 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How about Chad Everett

at short and Uggla at second? You’ve got the all-glove/no-bat with the all-bat/no-glove combo. At least you wouldn’t have two black holes at the plate from the MI.

Uggla only has two years of service time. He would actually be quite cheap and free up cash for other needs. Maybe you carry a back-up who replaces him in the late innings for defense, if that’s such a problem. We’ve got Bryan Anderson blocked and he’s a perfect trade piece for Uggla with the Marlins.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 20, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you mean Adam Everett

Chad Everett is an actor….

"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley

by TurdFerguson on Aug 20, 2008 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How good of an actor?

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Aug 20, 2008 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's 72

and probably hasn’t been in much you would remember.

Here’s his wiki page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Everett

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 20, 2008 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Star of "Emergency"

Yeah, I remember. Shows my damn age. Ha!

by Red in Chicago on Aug 21, 2008 12:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Renteria

if we can get him for scrap heap type price…if not, I have no idea.

by stlfan on Aug 20, 2008 12:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Renteria is probably one of the best offensive free agents, at any position, but I’ve heard his defense is lacking. Also, he’s probably going to get a lot of money.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Aug 20, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he's on the decline

both offensively and defensively. You wouldn’t want more than a one- or two-year deal for him. If you do that, however, you’re stuck on that middle-infield merry-go-round again. The club should try to get a really outstanding bat AND glove type and break open the piggybank. Why shouldn’t first, second and third all be “keystones” for the club? What’s so damn magical about centerfield or catcher? Second base has been treated like a washroom-attendant position since Polanco left. If we had Chase Utley we would be leading the division.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 20, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

FWIW

I believe when Polanco left, he was playing 3rd.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 20, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who out there...

will give us “a really outstanding bat AND glove type” so that we can “break open the piggybank” though? I don’t see anyone.

by stlfan on Aug 20, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Renteria from 3 years ago yes.

Now giving him 3 or 4 years would be an albatross like the Kennedy contract im afraid.

by rlgosnell on Aug 20, 2008 11:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

furcal

furcal would be that guy if healthy

by supernova on Aug 24, 2008 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Quite possibly...

but do you break open the piggybank on a guy that is 30 and played 170 games the last two years?

by stlfan on Aug 25, 2008 8:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think your estimation

of available money is too high. I’ll have to look into it, but I think that with all of the raises due to many guys, including the arbitration eligible players, there won’t be a whole lot left over.

That said, I’m glad someone besides me is opposed to all things Uggla. You should hear the fans down here in South Florida. They can’t wait to get rid of him. They’re ready to trade him for a couple of ice cream sandwiches.

by mikeonthecards on Aug 20, 2008 1:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i'm not saying uggla is the answer or anything--maybe he's not

but why are the fans in florida so down on him? sometimes the fans of a given team irrationally make scapegoats out of good players, so i’m interested in why this is not the case with uggla, especially since he is highly regarded by a lot of baseball fans. is his defense really just that bad? keep in mind this is an honest question, i’m not trying to be a smart ass or something.

by mattybobo on Aug 20, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he makes a lot of visible blunders

like trying to steal 2nd in the 9th inning against Yadi Molina in a game you trail by 2 runs with a rookie closer throwing ball after ball and getting gunned out by 10 feet.

It’s like when he screws up, everyone sees it. And they’re big mistakes. Not saying he makes more mistakes than any other player, it just seems as if his are really visable and the fans remember them.

Well, that’s my take on it anyway.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 20, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hard to say really.

First off, let me point out that since I moved here from St. Louis back in Feb. ‘06, I still haven’t found any “real” Marlins fans. So it’s not nearly the same as some of Cardinal nation hating on Kennedy, Duncan, Izzy, or whoever. Even this year when the Fish are doing well, they can’t seem to draw a crowd. Often times there are more fans of the visiting team at the stadium. I think it’s a what have you done for me lately mentality. Even though the Heat just won a championship a couple of years ago, they won’t fill the seats either.

Secondly, as Tackle Box points out, many of Uggla’s mistakes are big, and prove to be the difference in many games. Getting thrown out by Molina really fired up the callers on sports talk radio the next morning.

And yes, his defense is horrible. He has no range, and an iron mitt. I wonder if he and Hanley are the worst middle infield combo in the league.

by mikeonthecards on Aug 20, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

but man can they hit!

thanks for the opinion. i’m saddened that both uggla and ramirez apparently are bad defenders, especially hanley—it somewhat lessens my man crush on him.

by mattybobo on Aug 20, 2008 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hanley is the perfect example of a great shortstop who flakes on the easy plays

He’ll make the toughest plays look so freaking easy, but you hit one right at him with a slow runner and he might kick it or throw it in the stands. I think Renteria used to do this stuff a lot..

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 20, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hanley has really turned

it around this year with the glove. According to John Dewan, he’s gone from a complete black hole (-37) to right around average so far this year (+2).

by haltz on Aug 20, 2008 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

awesome

man crush reactivated!

by mattybobo on Aug 21, 2008 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He still has 20 errors

so far this year, which is good for dead last in fielding percentage. He does have good range, however, just can’t make the routine plays.

by mikeonthecards on Aug 21, 2008 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There is

something like $60M owed for next year. Ludwick and Ankiel should definitely get plenty in arbitration. Probably over $10M between the two of them, but I’m really not sure and both have unique track records. Then there is another $5M (or whatever) for pre-arb guys and Wellemeyer will get a raise. Thompson and Miles round out the arbitration eligible players (I think), but no one’s saying either of those guys have to be back. You’re looking at something around $80M for next year. So depending on where they set the payroll (and I don’t think they will or should have a hard cap) you are looking at $20-30M of room with Glaus, Kennedy, Pinata and Franklin ($25M) coming off the books after 2009.

Anyway, there’s money to spend. Mo also said this shortly after your post:

"When you begin to look at ’09 we will have money available and so therefore we will have an active off-season. I agree the this years FA market is deeper than last and should allow for more more flexibility during that period. "

by haltz on Aug 20, 2008 11:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I still think the best plan

is to go find an MLB ready prospect who is blocke by an established player. None of these guys excite me at all. I feel ill as I type this, but I would rather have Izturis back over most of the SSes on the list. Let’s just find a cheap prospect that can field and maybe get on base.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 20, 2008 2:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I would too

although i could definitely live with Lopez at short (definitely at 2nd).

Problem with these blocked guys, they don’t cost their teams anything and they know they’re in a position that is high demand. I doubt you could get any blocked mif cheaply.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 20, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Philly didn't seem to mind

giving up Cardenas as part of a package to get Joe Blanton. You just have to be opportunistic. After all, didn’t we trade away Polanco when he was just barely graduated from prospect status?

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 20, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

we traded Polanco for SCOTT ROLEN!!!!!!

it’s not like we gave him away and got nothing in return.

And the Phillies got a major league starting pitcher for Cardenas.

You keep talking about “stealing” a mif prospect for “cheap”. Well, neither of these examples would fall into the “stealing” or “cheap” category. Then, lets look at what we have to offer. Well, nothing we have really compares to Polanco and we can’t afford to give away starting pitching that’s under contract. (Unless you think the Angels would trade Brandon Wood for Joel Pineiro) So, I’m not sure where you’re going with this.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 20, 2008 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't think shopping AAA is exactly

a bargain bin. But we could perhaps get someone a tick less expensive than a current ML player. The trouble is that TLR is not going to toss some rookie into his starting lineup unless he’s pretty damn special. Even Colby Rasmus has not been anointed yet. We also won’t get such a steal if the guy is good since he would be cost-controlled—which in itself has value.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 20, 2008 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know what your issue is

but I never used the word “stealing”. The cheap reference was to the amount of money a prospect would have to be paid, didn’t mean to imply those guys can be had straight up for Adam Kennedy or anything. My point has been that rather than package multiple prospects for an expensive replacement level-ish MIF, wouldn’t it make sense to find an organization that has a prospect where we have a need position and has a need at a position where we have prospects. Thus, a prospect for prospect swap instead of a multi-prospect drain for a more or less average player. However, if Cardenas is the player many think he will be, then Oakland got him cheap in the Blanton deal.

I know that Polanco was PART of the package that brought Scott Rolen, just as Cardenas was PART of the package that brought Joe Blanton. All I am trying to say is that teams will part with MI prospects if you offer them something they want. For all we know, we could have gotten Cardenas and a couple of other prospects for Lohse. Still might be able to work a deal like that.

Now maybe you think I am an asshole or just not particularly bright, but I can do without the ALL CAPS and multiple exclamation points. I find that pretty insulting.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 20, 2008 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Touchy?

Goodness. I guess I inadvertently opened a bee’s nest.

Okay, I thought you had said we could steal a prospect from another organization, but it must have been another poster who had a similar proposition in either this or another post. For that, I apologize.

What I will not apologize for is calling you an asshole and telling you you aren’t particularly bright. You’re the one who said that, so I can’t or won’t take credit for it. Never thought it, but if you have a reason to think I might have a reason to think it, then sobeit. Or maybe you were just over-reacting and jumping to conclusions. I’m not sure.

And I’m surprised you got so incensed over my capitalization of Scott Rolen and some exclamation points to be “insulted”. But I don’t really care because I’ve apparently missed something.

So, whatever, if you don’t want to be told something you declare might be wrong then I don’t know what to say other than whatever you feel I implied or said is way off base but it doesn’t seem like you’re interested in that. I know the gold standard is kinda to think about what we’re posting and considering if we’d say the same thing face to face. Well, if someone wanted to make the statement that we traded Placido Polanco when he was still basically a prospect, and acted like Philly gave up a mediocre piece in return….I would have reacted the exact same way.

Now, if you didn’t mean it the way it came off about the Polanco statement, then…..whatever.

I’m not apologizing for that crap since I think I’m officially confused to what it is you want to move to acquire a top/blocked middle infield prospect which don’t exactly grow on trees and who teams tend to covet slightly higher than future corner outfielders, 5th starters and bullpen arms.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 20, 2008 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

And here's what you said.

In the FanPost “The Good, The Bad and the Uggla”

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2008/8/17/595632/the-good-the-bad-and-the-u

"Ellis’ road numbers

are far more attractive than Hudson’s, but I am still a little leery about his age. I think the rapid decline of 30+ 2Bs has been chronicled here repeatedly. Can’t we just steal a blocked prospect from somebody?"

I knew I didn’t dream it.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 20, 2008 10:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not giveml who's overreacting here

he made a legitimate argument — finding a 2b or SS who’s blocked in another organization and trading for him. It’s a pretty good idea, though easier said than done. Nowhere did he even come close to implying that the Cards got nothing for Polanco or that they could dump off Pineiro for some legitimate, top prospect. I’m not even sure how you could read his statement that way.

You ought to re-read your post. It was extremely condescending for no reason whatsoever.

by chuckb on Aug 20, 2008 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It might have been condescending

but I didn’t mean it to be. I could have read the Polanco thing wrong, but I don’t know how else to read it.

If you guys have an issue with the caps then fine. I used ‘em for emphasis, and if that’s considered offensive then I guess I have to look that word up because I think that’s an over-reaction.

If it’s my challenge that he said “steal” and “cheap”, well I wasn’t wrong, he said ’em.

But, your right, he made an argument that I keep hearing that I feel is not reasonable at all. Middle infield prospects do not equal Outfield prospects. You don’t just say “hey, you’ve got a really good ss and we’ve got a really good left fielder and they’re both blocked, let’s trade ’em”. Middle infield prospects are held in much higher regard than outfielders. Why can’t I say that?

Then by saying in response to me, “After all, didn’t we trade away Polanco when he was just barely graduated from prospect status?” and not mentioning that the trade was for Scott Rolen is leaving it out there like we just traded him for just about anything. That’s one of the biggest acquisitions in Cardinal history. To just throw that out there like trading middle infield prospects is no big is, well…..kinda a big deal.

And I used Pineiro because unless you can name another starting pitcher (and that’s what the Phillies traded for when they sent Cardenas) that is under contract for next year that we would be willing to part with this offseason for anything, then go ahead. I doubt you want to trade Wainwright or Carpenter or Garcia and Lohse and Looper are free agents. Maybe you want to trade Wellemeyer? I don’t know. Would that have made it better? Would that have prevented this response from you?

But, whatever. If i’m not allowed to challenge such a statement and am asked “what my issue is” and am told I’m calling the poster an “asshole” and that he’s “not particularly bright” or he can expect not to be challenged when he says things like “we should just steal a mif prospect from another organization” or “lets just find a cheap prospect” without having any ideas that might be somewhat plausible, then you guys can have your “discussion” all to yourselves. And if we’re able to trade Joe Mather or Brian Barton or Ryan Ludwick for some top middle infield prospect then I’ll happily eat crow.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 20, 2008 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just to clarify

I admit I mis-read giveml’s intention of the word “cheap”. I thought he meant cheap in terms of what it would cost to acquire, and it appears he meant in terms of dollar value.

While, I’ll disagree with his choice of words there, since I believe a prospect for prospect swap would pretty much be even money-wise yet would not be even in value to the organization, I can say I now understand what it was he meant when he said “cheap prospects”.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 20, 2008 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps I am to blame here

but I guess we have a misunderstanding on how to interpret ALL CAPS and excessive punctuation. To me, it is essentially as if you are getting in my face and screaming. If that was not your intent then I apologize for overreacting.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 21, 2008 1:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think you're right

we disagreed about the subject and that’s fine, and we disagreed about the tone (or whatever it’s called) and that is what led to whatever happened.

I’ve never thought of you or your posts in the way you portrayed me, but I can understand that you misinterpreted my tone. Whatever, I don’t have a problem with you, and hopefully everything that was misunderstood tone-wise isn’t that big a deal.

I’m more than willing to forget about it and chalk it up to a disconnect through the typed word. If you could have seen my face when I said “SCOTT ROLEN” I doubt you’d have been offended. But that’s the media we’re dealing with. It’s tough to gauge tone sometimes. So, I apologize as well.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 21, 2008 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Internet drama

LOLZ

Miles in '08

by Zoop on Aug 24, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Brian Barden and Tyler Greene

I’d be willing to bet the Cards attempt to resign Lopez to a reasonable contract and start him @ one of the MI positions. Lopez, Kennedy, Barden would be my choice for the 3 MI positions. If they want to keep Miles, then eat some salary and dump Kennedy. We can’t keep them both. Will Kozma be ready by spring 2010? He’s in Palm Beach now and might start 2009 in Springfield so it’s not beyond the possible … but that would be awful aggressive. Do we give Tyler Greene a shot at SS in 2009? It’s really getting to fish or cut bait time with Greene. If Kozma continues to perform, he may end up in Memphis by the end of 2009. It’s up or out for Tyler in 2009 I think.

by jjray on Aug 20, 2008 2:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If you're going that route

I’d say give Greene all of the rope and just see if he works out. That’s not really the style of our management, however.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Aug 20, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't like that at all

You’re basically playing with a timer counting down in the background. That timer is Albert Pujols. Given guys like Tyler Greene all the rope he needs and seeing if he works out is a recipe for disaster.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 20, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree..

This was Tyler Green’s last chance year and he is not tearing it up. Time to cut bait with him….The Cards are going to have to trade a good player to get a good SS… Stop trying to throw out 2nd tier names like Mather to get very good SS, it’s not going to happen.

by ICbirdfan on Aug 20, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kozma should be up soon after Greene, and Greene is a much better option than Barden along with more potential offensively than anyone else in our current MI.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Aug 20, 2008 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't know... I follow the minors a bit and Greene seems to be on his last legs..

He was old for AA and as OK at best and he is OK at best right now in AAA. Yeah I guess he supposably has some raw tools which are better than guys like B. Ryan or B. Barden, however I don’t know if he is the answer.

last year people wanted B. Ryan to play SS coming into this year. I thought it was a bad idea and he has not done a whole lot to excite me. I don’t know if people will be calling for Greene, I would say probably not because he will not be a Sept. call up so people will not see him.

At this point the Cards do need to decide what the future will be… How good is Kozma and the Nico kid and how far away are they.. I think they are at least 2 years away so that means there is time for a SS to get a 2 year deal in STL. Heck IZ2 might be back

by ICbirdfan on Aug 20, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think

you’re underrating Greene by quite a bit. He’s a good defensive SS with a power bat. Now that his knee is healthy, he’s getting back on track. I’d like to see him play in the AFL, see if he can continue to make improvements.

by liam on Aug 20, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

He needs to improve quick... time is a wasting for him.

Really he probably has about 2 years until someone in the system is going to catch him in Memphis. If Kozma and him are in Memphis at the same time Kozma will play no matter what… More is invested in Kozma.

He will be pushed out soon if he can not make an impact and land on the big team.

Don’t get me wrong I like what I have heard about his tools and the Cards drafting based on that.

I hope the Cards catch some lightning in a bottle and find an internal solution for the SS problem, sooner than later.

by ICbirdfan on Aug 20, 2008 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kozma

is still several years away. He was just OK in QC and is struggling mightily at Palm Beach. He will start there next year and we will see what he’s got. He should be looking in his rear-view mirror for Nico. I agree with Liam on Greene. He has been pretty decent since the knee got fixed and it makes sense to give a chance to a guy with his kind of upside.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Aug 20, 2008 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mo commented on Greene today in a chat.

Has Tyler Greene worked his way back into the prospect mix?

John Mozeliak: Yes he has and he is taking advantage ofhis opportunity at AAA. He is so athletic he just needs feel comfortable at a higher level. Playing well to date!

Im not saying you can read a lot into this but, I think hoping that he plays his way into the SS mix and hedging your bets with an Adam Everett or Izturis type defensive player and going after Orlando Hudson, Mark Ellis or even Jeff Kent wouldn’t be a bad way to go. You have offense at 2B and offensive potential at SS and if not just solid defense at SS. Resign Lopez as a utility MIF and I think that would be a significant upgrade at all 3 spots and not just 1 or even 2. The resulting depth would solidify that area of the team. The big problem with that is Kennedy’s contract and TLR’s love affair with the player/coach – A. Miles.

If they go that route and make a significant upgrade to the starting rotation with a guy like Burnett and some tinkering with the bullpen and that’’s as rosy a roster as you can expect.

Hudson – 4
Rasmus – 8
Pujols – 3
Ludwick – 7
Ankiel – 9
Glaus – 5
Greene – 6
Molina -2
Pitcher

Waino
Burnett
Carp
Colonel
Garcia or Boggs

I hope they look to keep McClellan in the bullpen as I feel he is excelling in an important role and possibly strengthening the rotation at the expense of late innings might not be wise. All in all I think there are moves to be made but expecting marquis talent at either MIF spot is pushing it.

by rlgosnell on Aug 21, 2008 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What does this mean?

You mean that Albert won’t tolerate incompetent players, or that Albert’s contract is coming up and we better stow away some sheckels?

by Red in Chicago on Aug 20, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he means

Albert is only going to be “The Mang” for so long. Let’s pony up and put a good team together instead of throwing someone into the mix who isn’t ready so we can win while “The Mang” is in his prime.

Maybe I’m wrong though.

by Ray Lankford on Aug 20, 2008 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Albert's time and age is coming up

He’s not going to be young and spry and healthy forever. Kozma and Nico probably can’t be realistically counted on until 2011, which i think is the last year of Albert’s contract. He’ll be 31 at that time and have another 2 years on his elbow which is such a question mark I don’t know what to make of it.

Basically, you can’t waste time letting guys figure things out because Albert isn’t going to be here forever. At best, you’ve go 3 more season after this one.

And now that I read Ray Lankford’s response, I think he did a very good job summing up my position.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 20, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with that sentiment.

Generational players are rare and while you have one it calls for making exceptions to the standard decision making process. If it means overpaying for one or two players while you have #5 then thats acceptable.

by rlgosnell on Aug 21, 2008 12:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Greene

I too would like to see the Cards give Greene his shot but Barden has some MLB ABs and would fair better as a utility guy than Greene IMHO. Greene has to start for him to have any chance at making it. Athletic SSs with some power are a hot commodity. The guy can definitely field the position so, given how poor offensively our other SS options are for next season, I don’t see the harm in giving him a shot. Can’t do much worse at the plate than Iz2. But it means dumping Miles or Kennedy probably … which it will take a team of wild horses to get TLR to part with Miles and JMO might have a hard time convincing the DeWallet to eat the Kennedy contract.

by jjray on Aug 21, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I didn’t estimate the money myself, just went with a few figures I’d heard on the high and low ends, but there are several big contracts headed off the books.

Isrignhausen- $8mil (whew!)
Juan- $6.5mil
Mulder- $6.5mil
Looper $5.5 mil
Lohse $4.25 mil
Springer $3.5 mil
Izturis $2.85 mil
Flores 1m
Clement 1.5m
Edmonds 2m
Spiezio 2.4m
Larue .85m
Villone .6m
Duncan .4
Glaus’s last year is 1m cheaper.

Around $47 mil off the books.

Guys due for raises:
Carp +3.5
Pineiro +2.5
Kennedy .5
Franklin .25
Molina 1.5
Wainer 2.1

-10 mil=37 mil

New contracts/arbitration to:
Wellemeyer
Ankiel
Lud
Duncan
Thompson
Schumaker
B. Ryan

These are a bit unpredictable and could end up costing anywhere from 10-20 mil I suppose, depending if we lock anyone up. Also, there’s always a possibility that the team resigns players, picks up some scrap-heap fare and stands pat. In any case, 15-30 mil should come off the books, whether they are planning to spend it somewhere else or pocket it is anyone’s guess.

Also possibly re-signed:
Miles
Lopez
Looper
Izturis

So my money was a bit high, but any of those FA’s will fit into that gap in payroll, provided the team is willing to spend it.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Aug 20, 2008 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My Vote

would be to re-sign Lopez as your utility infielder, nab Everett to be your all field/no hit SS, and then try to sign someone like Ellis or Hudson to a club friendly deal. That improves the defense, adds a bit of offense with Ellis/Hudson and Lopez, and doesn’t cost all the much money either. They they could DFA Kennedy (pipe dreaming here) and let Izturis and Miles go. Carry three middle infielders, a Speezer type, and a couple of extra outfielders with good bats (like Mather and Barton) for those all important LaRussa double switches. All-in, I think you could get those three guys for around $10-$12M total for next season, which leaves around $12-$15M to improve the bullpen and get a fifth starter.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 20, 2008 5:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ok.

I obviously did not read your post before I posted above.

by rlgosnell on Aug 21, 2008 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Call me crazy...

but don’t we have an “all field/no hit SS” already named Brendan Ryan. I see no need in spending more money on someone else to fill this role.

This in no way is a statement that I want Brendan Ryan to start at short next season, but any search for an alternative should be based on finding a SS who knows what to do when wearing a helmet and holding a piece of wood.

by MotherTruckinSteve on Aug 21, 2008 2:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ryan

He may be all field/no hit, but he’s not near as good at the all field portion of that equation as Everett, who’d been one of the best three defensive SS in all of major league baseball his entire career. I would venture to say that he’s probably 1 to 1.5 wins better than Brendan Ryan over the course of a full season factoring only defense. Not only that, he’s not going to cost us that much anyway, since he’s pretty much a one dimensional player. He’d be the perfect 9 hole hitter in Tony’s lineup if they could go after Ellis or Hudson to solidify the 6 or 7 spots in the lineup with someone who can hit and isn’t just a warm body.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 21, 2008 9:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I could live with that scenario

If they overspent a little for Ellis or Hudson, then Ryan could be the utility guy.

"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley

by TurdFerguson on Aug 20, 2008 6:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Options...

Here are my “suggestions”

Option A
SS – Trade B. Anderson to the Angels for B. Wood. Wood can play short and “could” be a significant building block for years to come. Downside in my mind would be Wood ending up with an OBP of 320 and SLUG of 450 – Still a solid SS. Defense is average.

2B – Move Skippster (i know, probably not plausible) or sign Elllis (seriously underrated player) or play Miles or keep Kennedy. I think 2B ends up being our “push” position. From a catching lightning in a bottle perspective I bet Josh Barfield is a minor league free agent at the end of the season. I would be EXTREMELY interested in signing him.

Option B
SS – Trade for Jhonny Peralta – one of the best defensive and offensive SS in the business (by the numbers not the scouts). The Indians could use a 3B, give them one of Glaus, Freese, or Craig…

2B – O-Dog – Spend the freakin money. Furcal type contract – 2Y/24M with an option for a third year at 12M…. I am VERY hesitant about this one, but I agree, Either you are making a run now while you have Pujols or you are not.

Option C
Trade for Renteria – The Tigers are likely to drop Mr. Renteria anyhow so why not trade for him now (to get that option sothat you only have a one year commitment) in exchange for a marginal prospect or two – Say Mark Worrell, M. Shorey, Cash, etc.etc. I’ve got to believe the Tigers would give Renteria up cheap just to get salary relief and out of the potential buy out in 2011

Sign Ellis – Risky with an older 2B but if you look at his park adjusted numbers as well as his defense he would be a risk worth taking imho

Backups – Brian Barden, Aaron Miles

by Lawless on Aug 20, 2008 7:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Not real crazy about any of those options, but I guess something has to happen

Btw, I think a lot of people are underestimating Mark Shorey. I honestly feel a Shorey for Renteria trade would end up becoming one of those trades this blog harps on for a long. long time.

Then again, he’s 24 but is moving up rather quickly through the organization…..but I’m sort of a Mark Shorey fanboy for some reason.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 20, 2008 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is Peralta really that good defensively?

I’ve heard some say he is good. I’ve also heard some say he is pretty shaky. And I don’t watch Cleveland much on Extra Innings so I’ve seen very little personally. When I hear his name mentioned in a deal, I do take note. Like the offense for the position. Like the young age. And I like the fact the Cleveland desparately needs some outfield pop.

I just wonder how good he really is defensively?

by Merry CRasmus on Aug 21, 2008 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Indians don't have a replacement for Peralta

and that he’s on such a favorable contract makes it dubious that they’d be very enthusiastic about moving him.

by liam on Aug 21, 2008 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We'll need to trade to find our SS

I would say that a likely scenario involves trading Anderson and a pitching prospect (Todd, Mortensen, etc.) for a young SS.

We should also consider the possibility that Ankiel or Ludwick should or will be traded for a young SS. Ankiel is just 1 year away from free agency and both will be 30+ next July (Ankiel — 30, Ludwick — 31). Many people will disagree w/ this approach b/c of how well they’ve played this season + Ankiel’s popularity w/ the fanbase. However, there seems to be this impression that Ankiel will easily sign an extension w/ the Cards at a below-market price. Ankiel is a Scott Boras client who will have 1 opportunity in his career to hit the jackpot financially and play for any team he wants. Signing Ankiel after next season is not at all a given and may not even be one we’ll want to do, depending on the terms involved.

Rasmus can step in next season and replace either Ludwick or Ankiel and I would imagine that either will have a lot of trade value. Still, I imagine that Tony has far too much stroke within the organization to allow the team to make a trade of that nature which makes the Anderson + a pitcher a more likely scenario. I just hope it would be for a young SS rather than some vet or a player who’s only a year or two away from free agency himself.

by chuckb on Aug 20, 2008 9:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Agree on Ankiel

Ludwick not as much, but that’s mainly because I’m guessing other teams probably still don’t value him properly. If I’m wrong on that then that would change my opinion. Beyond that, though, I’d also like to move a lefthanded bat vs. a righthanded one.

by Merry CRasmus on Aug 21, 2008 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Expect it to happen at SS

I think we probably can get rid of any notion that Kennedy won’t be on the roster. Maybe that’s just my skepticism. But that doesn’t seem to be our M.O., pardon the pun. So I think we’ll have 2B manned by Kennedy and we will probably again sign either Miles or Lopez to push him. And Hoffpauir will probably be in AAA again if someone gets hurt.

I expect something more significant to happen at SS. I don’t see good options internally until 2011, at least. Greene’s a possibility, but he’s going to have to show a little more. I don’t see how you can hand him the job next year in spring. They have to look outside for help at SS next year.

Peralta was mentioned – that would seem like a good fit if Cleveland really wants to move him. Even moreso if the Cards evaluate him as a plus player defensively, which I am not sure about. Texas seems like another fit with Arias and Andrus in their pipeline. If Arias could be had on the cheap, I’d love to see a guy like that in the Miles/Lopez role. If it goes well, you could have a real replacement for Kennedy looking forward. If not, you still have financial flexibility..

I also like signing Furcal if you can get him to agree to a 2 year deal, maybe with an option for a 3rd. Coming off injury, that may be possible. He’s in his 30’s, but I think highly of him defensively. Offensively he is still better than his 2007 season, though not as good as his limited AB’s this year. If you can get the right years on the deal, Furcal could be a good bridge to the prospects and be worth an investment.

by Merry CRasmus on Aug 21, 2008 1:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm not positive that this organization won't eat money

I could be wrong, but I just think this organization is always right up against their budget and can’t always make the move. They did it with Tino, but that became a really bad situation. They also did it with Edmonds, and they really didn’t have to unless there really was something between Jim and TLR that hadn’t surfaced yet and Mo moved quickly to alleviate the issue.

All along, I have felt the team would keep Kennedy at least through this season but thought it was a very good possibility they’d get rid of him somehow before next year when they’d only be on the hook for one season as opposed to 2 or 2+. Maybe I’m wrong, but I agree that having Kennedy on the team is more of a hinderence than anything else. Hope I’m right.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 21, 2008 1:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Furcal and other free agents like him could be type A’s and could cost us in the draft next year. By the time his contract ends it’s unlikely he would be type A and so we won’t get those picks back.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Aug 21, 2008 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We're also not getting a 28 year old Albert Pujols and a early 30s Chris Carpenter back

Sometimes, you have to say “we have the core players in place now, and eff the draft”

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Aug 21, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's my view too

As good a job as the Luhnow is doing, there is no immediate help in the middle infield. So I’d like to see us do something significant to address it. If it can be done by trade, then great, but we don’t know what we’ll have to give up, or who will be available, so it is all speculation.

And if we are going to go FA with it, I don’t want to worry about whether he is good enough to be a type A. At least not if you feel he will help you enough, and I think Furcal could. We were reloading this year, and that is shrewd with all the dead money we are sitting on. But that isn’t the case next year, and as you say, we have Pujols in his prime now.

by Merry CRasmus on Aug 21, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Found this interesting

Looked up Peralta’s numbers again and noticed his OPS+ was at 100 last year and is 109 this year. Ran through all the starting shortstops and the only other ones that have been able to hit at or above 100 both years (as of now) are Peralta, Ramirez, Hardy, Reyes, & Jeter.

Peralta is also 26. If he’s really going to be available that’s a pretty good opportunity.

It’s a reminder how valuable a guy that can stick at SS defensively really is. A guy that can handle the glove well enough and post an OPS around 100 has a lot of value.

by Merry CRasmus on Aug 21, 2008 2:10 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Pitching and Defense

win championships, so I’ll take an excellent defensive shortstop and live with the lack of power from one spot in the lineup.

Many MLB teams are hot for the offensive MIF so there is a huge amount of competition to getting one of the stars. It’s like trying to buy a new hybrid while gas is $4 a gallon. Everyone wants one, it’s the right thing to do, makes sense from a spending point of view, but there aren’t any available.

by ubeddie on Aug 22, 2008 12:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

More importantly, this leaves our money free to invest in the other leg of your truism, pitching, by going after a good FA starter and/or some relief.

Space.

It's a problem we face.

So we never go anywhere.

We just stay in one place.

by hazel on Aug 22, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My problem with this

Is the instability in gauging a pitchers long term performance. I’d like to stick with what we have, add someone to a 1-2 year deal, and backfill any needs with what we have coming through the system.

2005 Cy Young

NL

1. Carpenter
2. Willis
3. Clemens
4. Oswalt
5. Cordero
5. Pettite

AL

1. Colon
2. Rivera
3. Santana
4. Lee
5. Buerhle
6. Garland
7. Milwood

Previous years has some greater nightmare scenarios, but just looking a couple years back shows how dicey putting big dollars and, more importantly, years into pitching can be. Lifecycles are vastly unpredictable.

As it pertains to the Cardinals, we have some options in house that can be expected to step up and pitch. I do not feel that way about the middle infield. So to me, it makes most sense to devote the most resources (whether dollars or trading outfield talent/prospects) to addressing the middle infield needs. Need to add depth to starting pitching too, but I’d prefer to do it with short term deals.

by Merry CRasmus on Aug 22, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Didn't know where to put this tid-bit

Saw on Bird Land that the MI “problem” could be changing tunes. Apparently, the Cardinals got a prospect Yunier Castillo for “minimal” signing bonus out of a baseball academy in Miami. Touted are his incredible speed and arm. Have not heard anything about his hitting. He is 19, so probably several years away.

Looking at his baseball-reference page he does not look like much, but according to Goold he might be the next big thing for this organization (after Rasmus.)

Of course, now that I look for more, I see that over at Futureredbirds.net they talked about this (albeit briefly) on Aug. 20th.

by stlfan on Aug 25, 2008 10:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

He's from the Dominican Republic

I don’t know a whole heck of a lot about him, but was just recently promoted to Johnson City. 6’0" 160 pounds. Is hitting .150, .143, .150, .293 in 5 games (20 AB) at JC and hit .256, .285, .318, .603 in 40 games (129 AB) in the GCL.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 25, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep.

I don’t want to brake copyright rules, so just a couple of notes from Goold’s article (linked above):

An unnamed coach said Castillo is “the most athletic shortstop” the Cards have seen in a while and, apparently, when a non-organization observer remarked “he can run,” whilst referring to Castillo the response was “"You should see him throw," said a coach.”

Not bad.

by stlfan on Aug 25, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs