Payroll Reduced in '09?

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 20, 2008 6:24 AM EDT Comment 48 comments

Don't panic...this isn't really a bad thing at all. While considering the 2009 roster recently, it occurred to me that this is a very real possibility. The Cardinals have a significant amount of cash coming off the payroll after this year, and I don't really see much chance of them re-signing any of their free agents.

Let's take a quick look:

Jason Isringhausen - $8M
Mark Mulder - $7M
Juan Encarnacion - $6.5M
Braden Looper - $5.5M - It's possible he could be re-signed, but I wouldn't do it.
Kyle Lohse - $4.25M - There's a slim chance, but I don't think the Cards really need to spend $40M ++ on this guy
Russ Springer - $3.5M - Russ is getting up there in age, I think they'd be pushing it to get another solid year out of him. Especially at 4M +
Cesar Izturis - $2.85M - He's been great with the glove and mediocre with the bat (as expected). I don't think any of us will be demanding he gets re-signed, nor do I think he will be.
Jason LaRue - $.85M - While, I have enjoyed having him and the porn stache on the team, I wouldn't pay him a million dollars for probably about a half-season until Anderson is ready to be called up. I think he can be replaced with another less expensive disposable back up catcher.

Also, Jim Edmonds is currently being paid $2M by the Cards this season, so between these 8 players, that's $40.45M coming off. Now, factor in salary increases for several players and the imminent re-signing of Aaron Miles, and this comes to roughly $30M...at least $25M, anyway.

So let's see how the roster shapes up without these guys around.

First of all, I demand that Skip Schumaker be converted to 2B. He's a former infielder, a good hitter, and he's getting pushed out of the everyday OF with Rasmus on the horizon. I think he'd be able to make the transistion and this would form a really solid platoon with Miles (Skip is batting .349 vs. Righties and Aaron is .316 vs. Lefties - though lefty seems to be his "power" side). I also think that David Freese should be given an opportunity to win the "Speizio" role coming out of spring training if given a little time at first and in the OF. As far as the OF is concerned, Mather, Ankiel, Ludwick and Rasmus get the bulk of the playing time while Jon Jay and Brian Barton battle it out for 5th OF in spring training.

So far the position players look like this:

1B - Albert Pujols
2B - Skip/Miles
SS -
3B - Troy Glaus
C - Molina
OF - Ankiel, Rasmus, Ludwick

Bench

Miles - 2B/SS
Skip - 2B/OF
Mather - OF
Freese - 3B/1B/OF
Jay/Barton - OF
Scrub backup/Anderson - C

SO...basically all we need this offseason is a starting SS and a scrub back-up catcher.

Now the pitchers:

Carpenter, Wainwright, and Wellemeyer (per Mozeliak in recent radio interview) are locks for next years rotation. You'd have to figure that Piniero will be penciled in based on his salary. That leaves one open spot. My idea would be to have a good ol' fashion competition for the 5th starter's spot between Kyle McClellan, Jaime Garcia, and Jess Todd. If Todd wins, K-Mac and Jaime are bullpen bound, if Todd doesn't win he goes to Memphis and the other guy goes to the pen. My money would be on Jaime to win out. If Pineiro sucks, Todd or K-Mac could be moved back in.

Which leaves us with a starting staff of:

Starters:

Carpenter
Wainwright
Wellemeyer
Piniero
Garcia

The bullpen is kind of a mess right now. We won't have a lefty reliever going into the offseason, unless you count Flores or Villone, which I do not. Thompson makes a better starter than a reliever, but I don't really know if has a spot on the team other than "spot starter" or "long relief for Pineiro". Jason Motte looks like he'd be able to make the jump. I would hope we see him in September. I refuse to include Tyler Johnson or Josh Kinney in this discussion; if they come back effectively, it will be a bonus. I would quit using Franklin in the late innings and go with a Motte-McClellan-Perez set up. Franklin can be switched to the Thompson role, since he has so much starting experience anyhow.

Here's what I've got so far:

Relievers:

Franklin
McClellan
Perez
Motte

So basically we need 2 lefties and a righty for the pen.

Which leaves at least $25 million to get a starting SS, a scrub catcher and 3 middle relievers. I'm sure a lot of fans will be up in arms if payroll decreases by $1, but I don't view this as a bad thing. It means our player development system is working, something that we aren't all too used to just yet.

By the way...in that same radio interview Mo stated that he wanted to pursue a veteran starter. I think we know how this story ends...5th starter competition in ST, which is why I included that part of it....but I also don't think its a bad idea and it would be really exciting to watch.

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Comments

Good post.

Don’t be surprised if next year’s ss is already here- the Felipe Lopez reclamation project. He was an all-star and I believe is only 28. Just the kind of “we can get the best out of this guy” TLR, Dunc, and Oquendo like. There are already hints to this effect in the P-D. To some extent they’ve done this with Izturis. His defense is back to above average, and he is hitting .250 with a better than expected OBP. I would not be against resigning him.
As to the starting rotation, the names on your list have missed too many starts for comfort. IMO they need to sign either Lohse (unlikely) or Looper (who does nothing but get better and better as a starter) for some stability. The money needs to be spent for relief.
Finally, I couldn’t agree more with sending Skip to the Arizona fall league as a 2B. He has proven his worth as a leadoff hitter, but with Rasmus on the horizon he has no position. If he could make the transition, it would solve a lot of problems (and save money). He has the speed, quickness and arm to do it.

by vinniefromjersey on Aug 20, 2008 8:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

the Skip to 2B is a nice idea

but I’m kind of doubtful that it will work, let alone seeing them even give it a try. but then again, I wouldn’t put it past them either.

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 21, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ha, yeah

He would be able to dive head first a lot more too.

Prospects are good. Especially when they aren't rushed.

by CraveCase on Aug 23, 2008 7:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Couple errors

I was completely on board with Skip at second the other day. I, in fact, did a very similar post to this in another place. However, Skip has played exactly 6 games in the infield since starting professional ball (minor leagues and major leagues combined.) He had 14 chances at 3rd base (not 2nd) and made 2 errors in his 14 chances. That’s not good.

Also, in adding up all of your players on your roster, you are looking at a 26 man roster instead of a 25 man roster. My guess is, if the rest is correct, Freese or the Jay/Barton combo will have to go. Seeing as though Freese would be the second infielder, he’d have to stay…so that means Jay/Barton stay down in Memphis.

Lastly, I made this same mistake and it was pointed out to me…so I’ll do the same for you. You have no back up shortstop (that is a great option.) Miles can do it, but is not great at shortstop. If the starting SS obtained can play a ton of games…then I’m all for it.

by stlfan on Aug 20, 2008 8:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

yes...

the idea would be for the starting SS to play 150+ games. Also, There are only 25 listed…Skip and Miles are both listed on the bench when really it would only be one of them.

Thanks, for the info on Skip. I wouldn’t make too much of 2 errors in 14 chances…pretty small sample. I think he could do it…not to a gold glove level or anything but at an acceptable level.

Nick Stavinoah = John Gall

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 20, 2008 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good call...

I missed that both starting 2b were also on the bench.

by stlfan on Aug 20, 2008 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Also...

If money wasn’t an issue I’d say ditch Pineiro and resign Looper or a differeant vet starter, but I think they are stuck with at least giving him a shot

Nick Stavinoah = John Gall

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 20, 2008 8:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Skip

was a CF in college, too. I don’t know where this horsecrap about him being a converted infielder comes from.

by liam on Aug 20, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If he could be a second baseman

He probably would be one by now. There’s been an organizational need since……well, since Skip’s been with the organization. I think this moving Skip to 2B thing is becoming a lot like the did “you know the Giants are looking for a left handed hitting first baseman” line.

Other than that, I agree with a lot of the post. There should be money for something in the MI, which would dramatically improve the team. And I think they will look to add at least one starting arm too. I think you always need to plan for an unexpected event there and add depth.

by Merry CRasmus on Aug 21, 2008 2:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A quick google search reveals...

Skip was a shortstop in high school, played SS at Loyola Marymount, and it appears that he only played OF at Santa Barbara. He was in fact, drafted as a shortstop. Yea, it’s definately been a while (9 years?) since he’s played the IF.

Hat tip to Stan and Slaughter

www.vivaelbirdos.com/2008/4/13/392294/going-to-the-well

Nick Stavinoah = John Gall

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 22, 2008 4:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

actually that information was quite

relevant in answer to Liam’s question. (Where does this horsecrap come from?)

Nick Stavinoah = John Gall

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 25, 2008 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A few things

I don’t Skip is going to be converted. We might like it to happen—and perhaps it’s possible—but it won’t, at least not with Tony LaRussa running the show, IMO. I think Skip and Joe Mather will be the bench outfielders, as they offer the most versatility. Barton will go to AAA to finish his development or be traded. All the rest of the outfielders in the minors, including Jay, are trade candidates.

Pineiro will be on the team unless they can figure out how to trade him. He stinks, but the club has this fetish about sunk costs that I won’t rant about here.

I don’t know about Felix Lopez. Is his glove as good as Izturis? I put him and Izturis is a sort of maybe/maybe not category for shortstop. Neither one can hit very well, and I don’t buy the idea of Lopez as a terribly useful upgrade on offense.

Which brings me to second base. Given the thinness of the SS free agent market for next year, second is the probably the greatest position player upgrade opportunity. Perhaps a trade would also make sense here. But the club cannot start another lousy player at second next year, after what they’ve been through with Kennedy. I thing they will move him to the bench or even trade him with salary relief just to get rid of him.

So I think in terms of position players, they probably will spend some money on second, possibly a lot of money if a decent trade candidate like Uggla is available.

On the starter front, I look for Mo to be active in the Burnett auction, and that’s probably it. Between Lohse and Looper, we’ve got two candidates for slot No. 4. And there are at least five internal candidates for No. 5, including Pinata. Could there be a big trade for another top-of-the-line starter? I could see that before a 5-year deal on a FA, frankly.

Then there’s the bullpen. Lots of work to be done there. I could see paying up a little bit for some solid veterans, while letting Springer, Villone, Flores and Izzy walk.

In the end, I don’t think payroll will go down at all. If there’s a free $10-20 million, it will go towards one starter or one secondbaseman. To do otherwise would be negligent as the club is really just a solid bullpen and couple of parts away from contending for the division title again next year.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 20, 2008 9:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd have to disagree

Lopez is without a doubt a better hitter than Iztoo

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 21, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agree

Bullpen is a need, but only one or two. Getting the Starters in order, will help the bullpen better then spending too much on relievers. Carp, Waino, Welly, Looper and McClellen should be the starters. Add Todd to the bullpen for a year like Waino and McClellen.

Looper has earned a return to the starters, but I also would like to see Mo use some money on getting Sabathia. He is young and has a great arm. Carp, Sabathia, Waino, Welly, and McClellen. I know, he will be too much money, but we have 5 Pitchers on the staff and I would like to see 1 shutdown Thrower. Plus for once we have the money. Use him two or three years and trade him to the Yankee’s for three prospects.

I like the thought of keeping Lopez as 2nd or even SS. Lopez seems to react well to being with a winner. With the rest of the money sign Renteria and play him at 2nd. He will hit in the National League.

Rasmus – lf
Renteria – 2nd
Pujols – 1st
Ankiel – cf
Ludwick – rf
Glaus – 3rd
Molina – c
Pitcher
Lopez – ss

Carp
Sabathia
Waino
Welly
McClellen

Perez – cl
?
Franklin
?Springer
Todd
Garcia
Thompson

Mather
Schumaker
Miles
Kennedy
LaRue

Total Payroll $110mil (This is without loosing any prospects)

This should be the most exciting offseason since 1980 (Minus losing Simmons). If this team does not excel in 2009, Mo needs fired!!! Plus I still think this team can win it all this year. If this team gets the WildCard and it can get healthy it can beat any of the NL teams, even the Cubs.

The only thing I think we are missing, is that if we do not use the prospects they are not worth anything. Barton and Mather are on the verge of being ready. Anderson hits everywhere he goes. Freese is almost ready, but for all of these we have no place for them. Minor league scouts need to find the best pitching and MIF prospects and move our surpluses for our shortcomings.

Andy S

by apaul1029 on Aug 20, 2008 12:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Interesting

having Renteria at 2b and lopez at ss

by stlfan on Aug 20, 2008 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Renteria's range

His range is lacking. It might be because of a Fly ball staff, but Polanco’s range is in the low 5s. by the way, I would love to see Polanco back in the Birds on the Bat as well. Batting 2nd….ueww I am getting goosebumps:)

Andy S

by apaul1029 on Aug 20, 2008 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

A few notes here...

First of all, with regards to Rasmus, he will be playing CF next year not Ankiel. I think you are more likely to see Ludwick in left, Rasmus in center, and Ankiel in Right. On a similar note… there is NO WAY tony should bat Rasmus anywhere other than 2nd. No reason to over expose him his rookie year… and what better way to protect your up and coming all-star than hitting him in front of the best hitter on the planet.

For this reason I think going out and signing Furcal to play SS is a wise move. You can have a line up that looks like this…

Furcal SS
Rasmus CF
Pujols 1B
Ludwick LF
Ankiel CF
Glaus 3B
Yadi C
Pitcher
Kennedy 2B

by BigMac545 on Aug 20, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One problem with your lineup

you don’t have a shortstop.

In the world I see--you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty carpool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

by Tackle Box on Aug 20, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually

Rasmus is a damn good leadoff hitter. He runs well and gets on at about .370 clip.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 20, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sabathia

would also make quite a few heads in Milwaukee and Chicago explode.

But…we’re not going to beat out the Yankees on $$$$. AJ Burnett for $$$ is more like it.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 20, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No on AJ, I'd say.

He’s another injury risk pitcher that could spend a lot of time on the DL.

by stlfan on Aug 20, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Problem with CC

is Ned Yost. You’re getting a real good look at a guy who’s being abused to the max right now and I don’t see it stopping anytime soon.

by Tackle Box on Aug 20, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No kidding...

I was just looking at that the other day.

He’s thrown over 120 pitches four times in his last ten starts after only having done that ten times in the previous 236; also, he’s thrown over 6800 pitches in the last two years – 700 more than Zambrano, who himself is pretty abused.

by guayzimi on Aug 20, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Aces without arm problems (yet):

Halladay, Daisuzaka, Zambrano, Lincecum, Santana, Sabathia (knock on wood), Haren (crap!), Kazmir, Hamels, Oswalt (?)

I guess the thing is that you need six available GOOD starters because the odds are that one of the top three will go down.

If each starter averages being injured half the season every other year, then the odds that one of three pitchers will be on the DL during the season are 1 – (.75 * .75 * .75) = 58%.

If each of the top three starters only gets injured once every three years, spending two months on the DL, the the odds that one of the three will be on the DL during the season are 1 – (.89 * .89 * .89) = 30%.

Yeah, durability matters—a lot.

: p = 1- (.75 x .25 x .25), that all of them will be healthy for an entire year

by Red in Chicago on Aug 20, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry. Last formula at the end was gobbledygook.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 20, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

couple things

1. per cot’s, the club is also paying matt clement $1.5M this year, and spiezio $2.3M. so that’s another $3.8M that would come off. however, i don’t see your having factored in mulder’s buyout, which, again per cot’s, is $1.5M.

2. i would love to see skip converted, but i agree with others here that it’s unlikely.

3. $850K isn’t much for a backup catcher.

4. i see no reason the team shouldn’t resign looper if they can do it for, say, 3/$19. he’s been solid, and five starters isn’t enough. carp/wain/welley/loop/garcia/jo-el is a pretty solid six-deep.

actually e'contending mang

by nycbirdo on Aug 20, 2008 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think he underestimated the raises...

in general. Carp, Pineiro, Kennedy, Franklin, Molina, and Wainwright – coupled with Mulder’s buyout – adds up to just over $12 million.

Then Wellemeyer and Ankiel are both fifth year arb eligible guys. They currently earn a collective $1.9 million. Thompson, Dunc, and Ludwick are also eligible. They currently collect $1.3 million or so. Even if you dump the first two, Ludwick will earn, what, $3-5 million?

I’d guess between $18 and $24 million in raises. Someone with a better idea of arbitration settlements can narrow that down…

by guayzimi on Aug 20, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Starting Pitching is the way...

to go. Get one more top of the rotation guy, and it takes care of a lot of bullpen issues.

I am a fan of AJ Burnett. He just dominated the Yanks, to the tune of 13 K’s. Of course our coaching staff likes the “pitch to contact” ideal.

Burnett, Carp, Waino, Garcia, 5th. Looper to pen, Welly to pen, get a LOOGY, Print playoff tickets!!!

by RDF922 on Aug 20, 2008 6:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

The error you make is that a hefty arbitration will be given to Ankiel, Ludwick, and Wellemyer...

I did this same thread and posted it on the Cardinals message board. After some suggestions from other members, the total the Cards will have to spend is about 22 million. That includes Albert and Carps deferred payments, Mulder, Clement and Spezio’s buyouts, and the arbitration estimates. The one edit for my original post is that Rasmus probably won’t start the season with the club. But it has no bearing on how much we have to spend.

Here is the link…Check it out…

http://www.forums.mlb.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?tsn=1&nav=messages&webtag=ml-cardinals&tid=89659

by CrimsonBirdFan on Aug 20, 2008 7:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Link didn't work....just copy and paste it into the address bar instead

by CrimsonBirdFan on Aug 20, 2008 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't forget our 2 injured bullpen arms

Shouldnt’ Josh Kinney and Tyler JOhnson be back?

by sdrone on Aug 20, 2008 9:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Kinney is throwing now.

He might be brought up. I don’t know about Ty Johnson. I kind of doubt he’ll be back before September.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 20, 2008 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

09

One or two key moves (Burnett/Furcal) and 09 could be a very exciting year

Go crazy folks, go crazy!

by WizardofOz on Aug 20, 2008 10:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Would be swell

to get both, but every indication is Furcal will be re-signed by L.A. Burnett is probably going to opt out of his deal, so we’ll get to take another run at him. It’s just a question of bucks versus injury risk. The length of the contract will be the key—just like the last one was. I don’t the Cardinals doing a five-year deal with Burnett, so if that’s what he’s after we’ll have to look for a trade or just be satisfied with internal candidates.

Having said that, I was pleased to hear Mo say two things today: (1) there would be more money to spend in the offseason (which we knew, but still…); and (2) that middle infielders who can hit AND field are his priority. It’s pretty safe to assume, therefore, that at least one of the two positions will be filled by someone who can hit.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 21, 2008 3:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bryan Anderson 2B

Biggio’s number just being retired, I still haven’t seen anyone talk about this, or even bash on it. It seems C to 2B transition can’t be too difficult. Anderson doesn’t look like the tree-trunked Yadi type.

by Yadi on Aug 20, 2008 11:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Probably better to trade him

as a .300/.350/.400 catcher with decent defense is about as rare as a 2B who can hit .315/.350/.485.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 21, 2008 3:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Really?

It seems C to 2B transition can’t be too difficult.

If that’s the case, then name another player who’s actually done it. Biggio is a rare ballplayer, one that can conform to different positions and play decent there while stringing together 200 hit and 100 run seasons. We’re talking about a HOF talent and a great athlete here. I can’t think of another player, HOF talented or league average, that has made the transition from behind the plate to second base.

I can think of a number of guys who’ve moved from C to one of the corner infield positions, including 2 former Cardinals — Joe Torre and Todd Zeile. I think people underestimate just how good Craig Biggio was and how rare it is to make that transition smoothly.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 21, 2008 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ted Simmons played first for Milwaukee

for a while, IIRC. But catchers just typically aren’t that mobile; that’s why they are catchers to begin with.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 21, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Usually

they don’t move well in space, but have really quick feet and a good arm, which is why many of them get moved to third base, where reaction time is what is most needed.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 25, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

not so sure the payroll will be less next year

I thought it was going up $5 mil?

it's time to bring the rock!!!!!!!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Aug 21, 2008 1:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Who really knows?

It seems like they will put another $10-15 million out there in terms of new salary spending. They basically have room for one all-star or one hand-me-down pitcher and some spare parts. I think they might be actively looking at Uggla types just to keep the current year spend in line. Makes sense, actually, particularly if you buy the Pujols-will-only-be-Pujols-for-a-few-more-fleeting-years argument.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 21, 2008 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't agree with much here.

I have no idea where the idea came from that any outfielder can become a major league second baseman with just a little practice. Skip can’t nor can Barton or any of the outfielders that someone wants to see reborn at second base. The Cards won’t be stupid enough to try. Lopez was a good borrow for the rest of the season but this team’s early success was based on defense and we will not see a Lopez/Skip combo at the keystone. Felipe will not be offered more than a journeyman’s contract by the Cards and he will take a better offer elsewhere. I love Mr. Rasmus’ potential but he has not proven he can star in AAA, much less the majors. He is the heir apparent to either left or center but, barring an awesome spring, he will start next year in Tennesee.
I do agree that we can find a cheap and effective fifth starter with one of the kids and, if anybody falters, we should have another couple ready by mid season. Given the free agent market I’d look at making a bid for Orlando Hudson. I know that this will get boos but I’m not sure it’s a bad idea to resign Izturis to a modest contract. There’s just not much more out there. Along with doing that I’d look to move Anderson and others for a young, good shortstop who’s blocked somewhere else and might be on the cusp by mid season. The lefty reliever problem has to be addressed but you’re right, we’ve got the money to do it if the player is out there.

by easy on Aug 21, 2008 6:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

springer

the only move the cards must make is to resign springer, he is the most important reliever outside of whoever is closing. I would be will to pay what the cards payed last year to keep a bullpen arm with a 2 era
Also mo is too cheap to bring in fuentes so the pen could look something like this

Springer
Mcclellan
Franklin
Thompson/kinney (take ur pick)
Garcia/tj (depends on the rotation
Perez (The 9th inning guy who come in in games where we are winning by less than 3 runs)
Junky lefty (Eric Threets anyone)

by thenextgen on Aug 21, 2008 8:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Thompson wants to be a starter

I think his wish will be granted and he will be traded, a la A.Reyes. Motte could probably do Springer’s job, perhaps even do it better. The problem with Springer is that he’s almost 40 years old. He can only pitch one inning every two days. That’s a big waste of a bullpen spot if you ask me. Ty Johnson is a strong possibility for the second lefty, though I’m not yet convinced the first one on your list won’t be in the rotation—or even at Memphis.

by Red in Chicago on Aug 21, 2008 9:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

If springer's giving you the quality that he's shown this year

it’s not a waste of a roster spot at all. I’ve lost track of the number of fires that he’s put out. You can use his age as an argument that it’s not sustainable forever, but if he keeps on putting up years like he has this year, even if his availibility is limited, then I’d be more than happy to bring him back.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Aug 23, 2008 3:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

and it's pretty far fetched to think

that Motte could just “do Springer’s job, perhaps even do it better”.

Also, Springer has, on more than one occasion, pitched on consecutive days and has pitched 3 days in a row once or twice which is really not something you would want any reliever to do.

by Tackle Box on Aug 23, 2008 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guess my point is mostly

that Tony “babies” Russ because of his age. He doesn’t face lefties and typically doesn’t pitch either multiple innings or consecutive days. Is there room for a rally-extinguisher specialist like him? Sure. But a big part of why the bullpen is in tatters this year is that it’s been overused. if you could have another Kyle McClellan or at least a younger, more durable set-up guy, wouldn’t you rather have that person instead?

by Red in Chicago on Aug 24, 2008 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs