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MLB expansion and division re-alignment

Since Major League Baseball expanded to thirty teams with the additions of Tampa Bay and Arizona in 1998, the American and National Leagues have been out of balance in regards to the number of teams in each league. That year, Tampa became an American League team and Arizona a Nation League team, and in order to keep from having an odd number of teams in each league, the Milwaukee Brewers jumped from the AL to the NL. As a result, there are sixteen teams in the NL and only fourteen in the AL. This causes some problems in the grand scheme of things. The problem lies in two areas: Interleague play and the playoffs.

The interleague play problem is only minor, but it basically entails that when all American League teams are facing a National League team in interleague play, two National League teams will have to play each other. The logistics of it all work themselves out, but it is frustrating to me as a fan of baseball and of interleague play when every other team is playing an AL team and the Cardinals are stuck playing the Pirates.

The playoff problem, on the other hand, is much greater. Using basic math and statistics (and cutting several corners, like the differing size of the divisions in each league) an AL team has a 4/14 (or 28.6%) chance of making the playoffs in a given year. A NL team, on the other hand, has a 4/16 (or 25.0%) chance of making the playoffs. The difference is slight, but important. That is why I have come up with the following plan:

Major League Baseball needs to expand to 32 teams by adding two AL teams, and split into four divisions per league consisting of four teams each. This would also eliminate the Wild Card, and set up a much better scheduling system: 27 games each against the three other teams in your division (81 games), 6 games against the non-divions teams in your league (72 games) and 9 interleague games. That way half of your games will be against your direct competition for a playoff spot, but you will still see every other team in your league and keep interleague play intact. Seems like a perfect plan, doesn't it? Well, now comes the tricky part, where to expand.

Looking at the ranking of the United States' largest metropolitan areas, the top ten metro areas that do not currently have a major league baseball team are (with 2007 population in parentheses):

Portland, OR (2,175,113)
Sacramento, CA (2,091,120)
Orlando, FL (2,032,496)
San Antonio, TX (1,990,675)
Las Vegas, NV (1,836,333)
Columbus, OH (1,754,337)
Indianapolis, IN (1,695,037)
Virginia Beach, VA (1,658,754)
Charlotte, NC (1,651,568)
Providence, RI (1,600,856)

Every city in that list is currently growing steadily. However, I would consider several of those cities unlikely locations for baseball for different reasons. Orlando (Tampa/Florida), Columbus (Cincinnati), Indianapolis (Chicago/Detroit), Charlotte (Atlanta), and Providence (Boston) all are well within the market of other major MLB teams. Las Vegas would be unlikely because of the gambling stigma. So that leaves Portland, Sacramento, San Antonio, and Virginia Beach as possible locations for expansion. Taking a look at my projected division re-alignment, you can see that there are potential vacancies in the AL South and AL West divisions. Of course, these divisions can be re-aligned to fit whatever city MLB decides would make for a better expansion team, but this is what I came up with:

NL East     			AL East

NYM         			NYY
PHI				BOS
WAS				BAL
PIT				TOR

NL South			         AL South

ATL				TAM
FLA				TEX
HOU				KCR
CIN				

NL North			         AL North

CHC				CHW
MIL				DET
STL				MIN
COL				CLE

NL West				AL West

ARI				SEA
LAD				OAK
SFG				LAA
SDP				

The most logical choices would be to put a team in Portland for the AL West and in San Antonio for the AL South. One city that is not in the above list that could be considered a good choice would be Oklahoma City, and it could replace San Antonio as the AL South team.

Anyways, I just thought this would be a fun little excercise and hopefully would generate some discussion. Thoughts?

9 recs  |  Comment 136 comments

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I haven't heard any talk from MLB

that they are looking to add any teams. Am I wrong? It would certainly make this thread a little more meaningful if MLB was actually planning on expansion.

Milt Thompson FTW!

by gossard56 on Aug 12, 2008 2:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not aware of it either

Really it was just something I was thinking about while trying to get to sleep last night and thought it would be a fun exercise

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 12, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This all could have solved a lot easier if the Expos/Nats franchise would have just decided to die

Then we could just get rid of one more team, and it would fair odds.

Prospects are good. Especially when they aren't rushed.

by CraveCase on Aug 14, 2008 8:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1, the talent is spread too thin as it is

I’m all for a contraction…I’m looking at you, State of Florida.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Aug 14, 2008 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

but contraction will probably never happen

I don’t see any way that the players’ union ever lets contraction happen, If the owners ever try to force it through, I think that the 94 strike will look like child’s play

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Aug 14, 2008 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Additionally

the disparity means that in order for each team to have 81 home and 81 away games, most NL teams have to play more away games vs the AL than home games, something like 50 games overall IIRC. That’s one of the reasons the AL has been so dominant in interleague play.

I’d like to see an NL team in vegas, myself. That way I’d have an excuse to go there at least once a year ;)

"..and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped." -Sir Belvedere

by SleepyCA on Aug 12, 2008 2:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good point on the IL play as well

A major sports league team in Vegas would be interesting for sure, but I just don’t see baseball being the leaders in that race.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 12, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

NBA

They already have summer league games there and have had an ASG there. I thought they’d be the first ones to tap that market, but then the ref betting scandal hit. I wonder if it will ever happen now.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 12, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just NBA or any sports league?

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 12, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Any sports league

MLB just can’t expand to Las Vegas. It’s painted itself into a corner due to the escalation of anti-gambling policy since the Black Sox, which is best embodied by Pete Rose being banned from baseball.

The NBA will have to wait for years to expand into the gaming capital of the U.S. after the ref betting scandal (even though I don’t think that having refs and players in Vegas is significantly riskier than in, say, NYC in terms of gambling). There would be too much bad press for Stern’s taste, IMO. Then again, I could be wrong.

And having an NFL team in the desert seems like a bad idea, even if there is one in Arizona. I suppose that they could play in a dome. Has the NFL even showed an interest? Right now, I’d say they are the best bet.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 12, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

AL

I like the idea of adding a couple more teams but the last thing the National League needs is to get killed in All Star Games and World Series even more than they already do.

by CarlCrawford on Aug 12, 2008 2:38 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What would adding two AL teams do to make the NL "get killed" even more?

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 12, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It would help in the ASG

Part of the reason the NL has trouble is that the NL has to carry 2 more bad players. Every team has to have reps so the NL has to have reps from the pirates, marlins, etc. Imagine if the AL had 2 more bad teams that they had to pull from.

Personally though I would rather eliminate 2 NL teams (or an AL team with an NL move to AL) one of the FLA teams comes to mind as a possiblity but I am not sure what the other one would be. That would even it out and spread the talent around more.

by StLHugo on Aug 12, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Marlins

The Marlins have still drawn under 1,000,000 fans this season, even though they’re in the hunt for the wild card. If any team is going to go, it’s got to be them. Their fanbase is either invisible or nonexistant.

by mojowo11 on Aug 12, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice Post

I think it is a great idea. The population of these cities are pretty small compared to some MLB markets so two low revenue teams would be coming into the AL. I think Bud Selig and the owners would have a major issue adding two small market/ low revenue teams to the same league. I think it would be more likely to see an NL team slide to the AL and to balance two small market teams from a business standpoint.

I live out in Sacramento and another thing I thought about when you posted was which cities already have minor league teams. I know Sacramento has the A’s AAA affiliate, The Rivercats, and Portland does too. Sacramento just got a baseball team 8 years ago (or so) so I am not sure if they would be willing to get a pro team because the AAA stadium is brand new. On top of that, the Sac. Kings are having a really hard time trying to get funding for a new arena, mostly because the city is unwilling to shell any money for an arena. So the availabilty of some cities would be a question as well.

I like the idea though- I think the overall quality of baseball would improve from a balanced AL and NL in divisions and scheduling.

by 916baller on Aug 12, 2008 2:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Which NL team do you think would slide over to the AL?

Would the Brewers go back? Or a different team?

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 12, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am thinking

I would keep the AL West how you have it and add Portland b/c Sac and Oakland would in direct revenue competition. It also would seem too close to have two teams in the same division an hour and a half away. Though Millwakee and Chicago are pretty close right?

I would then slide Houston or Flordia over to make room for San Antonio. This would also be another problem because Houston and Texas (Arlington) are fairly close as well. Same thing with Florida and Tampa.

It would be hard no matter how you slice it. (I spent the last hour trying to come up with different ways to divide the teams). Current owners would be unwilling to allow an expansio team to come into their market and take revenue. It would take almost public outcry to get the owners to add teams. It truly is unfortunate because however it worked out your idea would provide stability in baseball which I think would only make the game better.

by 916baller on Aug 12, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whoever it would be

You’d have to give them a lot of notice—an NL team moving to the AL would have to plan to have a DH available in the transition year. Moving to the NL is easier on the roster.

by mojowo11 on Aug 12, 2008 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I saw an article about this a few days back

I just read a pretty expansive article on this very point.

The main point the author makes is that baseball was the last major sport to expand, however, they also seem like the least likely to expand soon: Nothing is in the works.

He also talks about a few foreign cities, which I think would be great, if the distance could be dealt with:

http://www.bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2387&Itemid=1

Also, a team could be added to the NL as long as one team was displaced to the AL. I’m imagining an NL west team getting displaced and replaced by Vegas.

by hazel on Aug 12, 2008 2:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Great article

I thought about Northern NJ and such, but given the close proximity to the Mets and Yanks, I figured MLB wouldn’t think twice about putting a team there.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 12, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the mlb

is really unpredictable in this situation becuase they moved the expos to washington d.c. right smack in the middle of baltimore’s market. do you think an expansion montreal team is possible? there could be some interesting divisions that way.

by 916baller on Aug 12, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

or Vancouver, maybe?

Would a San Juan franchise be financially viable, or is there just not enough money in Puerto Rico? I’d love to see a MLB team in the Carribean, considering how many players there are from there.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Aug 13, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would think

MLB would have to figure out what to do with the Marlins first since they are being booted from Dolphins Stadium.

So just for fun lets say they Marlins move to Las Vegas. I would then reallign the NL this way:

NL East
NYM
PHI
WAS
Atl

NL Mid East
Pit
Chi
Stl
CIN

NL Mid West
Hou
MIL
Las Veges
COL

NL West
ARI
LAD
SFG
SDP

and the Al this way:
AL East
NYY
BOS
BAL
Tam

AL Mid East
Tor
Det
Cle
Chi

AL Mid West
Min
KC
Tex
(San Antonio)

AL West
SEA
OAK
LAA
(Portland)

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometime it rains.

by garden nome on Aug 12, 2008 3:07 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

uh

Why not flip flop LV and ARZ? LV is more west than ARZ, for that matter same goes with StL and MIL as much as I would love to stay in the division with the Cubs by geographic sense it doesn’t make any.

by StLHugo on Aug 12, 2008 3:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think however you do it you'd have to try and keep some of the traditional rivals in the same division

Which is why I kept STL/CHC, NYY/BOS, SFG/LAD in the same division in the original post

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 12, 2008 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Arizona and Las Vegas

should probably flip . As for where the Crdinals play.I Actually gave this some thought. Eithr way you go the Cardinals would be lined up with a fierce rival in either Chicago or houston. But iin the end the St Louis Chicago rivalry has to much history. It is also not as forced as the sopposed Mil / Chi rivalry which is just a buch of druken cubs fans who come north and take over the stadium.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometime it rains.

by garden nome on Aug 12, 2008 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Should have previewed

before post. Sorry about the spelling.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometime it rains.

by garden nome on Aug 12, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Love your reworking. Then everyone could stop whining about the wild card as well.

by hazel on Aug 12, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also

Aren’t the Marlins pretty close to getting a new stadium in Miami?

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 12, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes sir

they are going to be where the orange bowl was. i posted a link yesterday to the wikipedia in the game post. here it is

by 916baller on Aug 12, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the link

I like that are planing to change their name to the Miami Marlins. Let’s here it for alliteration. How does the timing for opening the new stadium match up with the end of their lease at Dolphin Stadium? Will the Dolphins let them stick around until the new stadium is open or will they have to find a temporary home. Back on topic, with the stadium issues seemingly being resolved in Miami, Tampa, Oakland , Minnesota and KC(renovation), relocation of existing teams no longer seems to be a possibility. If MLB wants to enter new markets it would seem it would have to be through expansion.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometime it rains.

by garden nome on Aug 13, 2008 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

My bad Mr. Redbird

Although I won’t hold my breath until they actually break ground.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose and sometime it rains.

by garden nome on Aug 13, 2008 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Even then, it is no sure deal.

Until they are installing seats, I wouldn’t trust it will be completed.

by Egyptian on Aug 15, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a good idea...

…naming a division “Middle East.” :-)

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

by palampe on Aug 19, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pitching is diluted

anyway – maybe there should be two fewer teams.

by hit and run on Aug 12, 2008 3:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Though

even though I posted the same thing I wonder if that has a lot to do with the increased offensive output and thus record profits. Baseball needs to be making money to be successful, even if I think it is too much money.

by StLHugo on Aug 12, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or maybe hitting needs to be diluted ;)

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 12, 2008 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hitting is diluted too

although you don’t see it on the offensive side. You can still have multiple 25-HR guys per team, but several of them are going to stink up the place on defense, or are only going to hit .230.

by hit and run on Aug 12, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

totally agree

baseball needs to Contract rather than expand b/c of pitching dilution

Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2

by gocards62 on Aug 12, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can I make a plea on behalf of all of

us who live away from our favorite team? Please don’t limit each team to only 6 games against out-of-division opponents, as you propose, and as is already done. As it is now, the Birds come to Washington ONCE per year, meaning I get at most 3 shots at seeing them live unless I make a trip to STL. I’d much rather give up interleague play, or cut down on intra-division play, if it meant 2 trips east each season for the Cardinals.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Aug 12, 2008 4:19 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Interleague...irks me

This season we were supposed to play the AL East, yet we have to play 2 series against KC and 1 against Det, both not AL East teams. I understand the KC one from a money perspective but if they replaced the Det series with a Bal one that would allow you 3 more games to see the Cards. I just don’t get the schedulers sometimes.

by StLHugo on Aug 12, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Understandable

I only had four chances to see the Redbirds in ATL this year. If you didn’t mind driving, you could hae made it up to Philly or even NY if you wanted to. I’d say Washington or Cincinnati is next closest for me.

The problem is that no matter how they did it (IF they did it) is that someone would be upset abot something. There is no solution that everyone would agree on and be happy about.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 12, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Living in Dallas

The only series I get to see is in Houston…thankfully, they are in our division. However, aside from Houston, there are ZERO other options to see the Redbirds unless I’m willing to fly.

by launchshuttle on Aug 21, 2008 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unless, of course

NL Central/AL West is the interleague flavor of the season

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Aug 21, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i was pretty mad

when the cardinals played the Angels last year and they played in STL. WTF?

My fault for not driving up to oakland, but that’s a long drive…

"..and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped." -Sir Belvedere

by SleepyCA on Aug 22, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Foreign Markets

I have always thought that the MLB should expand to Monterrey, Mexico. 3.8M folks live there. It’s been ranked as the most secure Latin American city, although it does have drug cartels in it. It has two professional [soccer] clubs. Even so, baseball has been played there since the 1800’s. The city has produced three Little League World Series teams. Their Mexican League team is the Sultanes. I really believe that a franchise there would take off (even if the peso puts them at a monetary disadvtange).

Also, once Cuba has another revolution, reforms its communist ways, accepts democracy, accepts capitalism, and the embargo is lifted, there has to be a MLB club there.

Also, what about Puerto Rico? Could it support a club?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 12, 2008 4:24 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I like

the foreign market idea, having a team in any of those places would be pretty cool from a fans perspective. As a fan if you wanted to go on vation in Cuba/Mexico/P.R. and wanted to see the Cards play their would be a pretty cool I doubt the MLB would actually ever do that, at least anytime soon.

What about a team in New Orleans? Is that not a big enough market?

by 916baller on Aug 12, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

New Orleans is still suffering from Katrina

Just went there in June, and parts of it still look like a war zone. Residents are moving out in flocks. New Orleans needs to take care of many more issues before even considering a baseball team, such as why tourists are much MUCH safer than residents.

Also, IIRC, New Orleans residents are pretty pro-Astros, and if not them, probably the Braves.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 12, 2008 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pros and cons for having a MLB team in Latin American/Caribbean countries

Pros: The people are (mostly) baseball-OBSESSED. Cuba, PR, and Mexico, like you mentioned, would be great places for the fan of baseball in those places.

Cons: How many residents of these cities would be able to afford baseball games? Would the franchise make money? Would MLB players want to go play for these franchises? They would all be extremely isolated from the rest of the league.

If you’re looking for international expansion, I’d start with Montreal (again), maybe Edmonton, Calgary, or Vancouver and move on from there. I’d say Monterrey is the best shot for a Hispanic country.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 12, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm sure there are plenty of Latin-born MLB players...

... who would jump at the chance to play in Latin America.

but Cuba is a non-starter for at least 2-3 decades. and they’ve tried to do stuff in San Juan, Puerto Rico (the Expos played some “home” games there before moving to Washington) and it didn’t work out too work IIRC.

Mexico is possible, but doubtful. besides the economic issues (fluctuating currency and broader economy) and political issues (corruption, crime), i’m not sure that they could draw enough to make a successful franchise. more likely, in my view, is another team in Canada. the Expos were very successful until the strike in ‘93 and extremely inept front office management afterward. a team in Ottawa might be successful, or in Vancouver (they could play in the AL West and build an immediate rivalry with the Mariners).

expansion in the U.S. would seemingly have to be in the midwest or southeast. places like OK City or Charlotte seem like the only reasonable places. New Orleans can’t sustain it, i’m not sure if Portland has the local interest, and Sacramento is close enough to the Bay Area that baseball fans there already cheer for the A’s or Giants (plus, there are already 5 MLB teams in California; i think that’s plenty). the Mountain West area got two teams in the last couple of round of expansion (AZ and CO), as did Florida, so MLB would probably concentrate someplace else. VA would’ve been a decent place to look except they just got the Nats.

if you don’t like Charlotte or OK City, then you could move on to a place like Nashville. but honestly, i like the idea of Vancouver, B.C. the best. put the team in the AL West, contract the Marlins, and shift the Brewers to the NL East. expand interleague play (or at least stretch it out across the schedule) so that each league having an odd number of teams doesn’t matter, and balance the schedules more.

in any case, it’s absurd for the leagues and divisions to have different numbers of teams, and for division. in this regard, your initial math was wrong. if you are an NL Central team, you have a 16.6% chance of making the playoffs (not including WC). if you are in the AL West, you have a 25% chance (not including WC). that is simply absurd; it isn’t a level playing field, especially for the mid-market/small-market teams like Pittsburgh. something has to be done.

by kindred on Aug 12, 2008 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

er, not shift Brewers to NL East...

... move Pittsburgh to NL East. you have three divisions in each league, you expand interleague play and stretch it out across the whole schedule.

by kindred on Aug 12, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right now, the peso's rising against the dollar

Mexico is an oil producer, and the US has been engaging in weak dollar policies for at least a decade.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Aug 13, 2008 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Until the trade and budget deficits even out,

the dollar will remain weak.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 13, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yep.

And the worst part is that even when china inevitably stops manipulating its currency (the main reason for the absurdly low cost of chinese goods and thus, the US-Chinese trade deficit) it still probably won’t help, because they will be leveling out their currency by dumping a bunch of dollars on the international market.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Aug 13, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm not going to argue exchange-rate minutae with you...

... i do that everyday in my IPE Ph.D. program, but i’ll just ask you this:

if you had the choice between being paid in dollars or pesos, everything else equal, which would you choose?

MLB players who play in Toronto (like Glaus) often have currency fluctuation clauses in their contracts, and the Loony is a much more stable currency than the peso.

in any case, it’s another consideration for having a team

by kindred on Aug 14, 2008 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd take euros or pounds

Kidding…

I agree with you. Right now, I’d choose to be paid in dollars over pesos.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 14, 2008 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"...in this world, today, isolationism is no longer a practical policy."

Can you imagine the Havana versus Marlins series? It would be like a Cardinal game in Denver. Or the Puerto Rican team visiting NYC, which has a larger population of Puerto Rican descent than Puerto Rico proper? It would be amazing to behold. What’s more, Latinos are the fastest growing segment of the American population and I’d be willing to bet that anywhere the Monterrey team would go, there would be sellouts. It would be like a national team touring America.

Revenue sharing, as well, would help the teams be financially viable. I can’t imagine any of the three locales discussed having lower attendance than the Marlins or Royals. I think that exchange rates could be a big problem, but I believe that they could sell tickets, especially Monterrey, which is relatively strong economically. On top of that, Monterrey, is not very far from Houston or Phoenix. If re-allignment is the aim, an NL South of Houston, Arizona, Monterrey, and, say, Denver would be pretty neat.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 12, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I'd rather have fans that enjoy the games

than I would have them be in places that are financially viable. Expansion into places where it could make money (but without a fan base) is the biggest threat to the NHL. MLB should not be copying that.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Aug 13, 2008 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

On the surface I think PR could support a team

There are 2.5 million in the San Juan metropolitan area and roughly 4 million on the island. You can easily reach San Juan from anywhere on the island in 3-4 hours of driving (that’s allowing for the traffic jams you will inevitably get stuck in driving on that island). As you mentioned, this is a baseball obsessed population, so I think it is plenty large to fill a stadium regularly. However, there are some logistical issues that may overcome this.

One roadblock might be the need for a new stadium. Estadio Hiram Bithorn was built in 1962 and only seats 18,000; although 81 sellouts puts them over 1.4 million for the year, so they’d be doing better than the Marlins. It was also deemed suitable for games in the WBC so presumably it is a decent facility. Regardless, I think a new facility would be required for any MLB team to call San Juan home, and I don’t know that the city really has the money to do this.

Theses are probably some of the reasons that the Expos went to D.C. instead of San Juan.

Another potential problem might be team loyalty. My experience in Puerto Rico tells me that they have a large population of very devout Yankees fans. I would guess that this would change if PR had an MLB team, but I don’t think it would happen overnight. It also means that baseball is already in Puerto Rico as far as merchandising is concerned, so an expansion there really only adds revenue through ticket sales. I guess adding an NL team there (say moving the Marlins) might work alright since they wouldn’t be in direct competition with the Yankees on a yearly basis and would open up the NL to PR.

by MotherTruckinSteve on Aug 12, 2008 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

MLB Regular Season International Games thru 2004

http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/international/index.jsp?feature=games

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 12, 2008 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tokyo?

San Juan is logical only because the plane flight isn’t that far, remember any team going there to play, including the home team, will be flying back and forth to the states or even Canada. Tokyo is even further away, just not possible.

by StLHugo on Aug 13, 2008 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Though I would LOVE a post World Series game against the champion of the Japanese league

or maybe have a playoff between the Japanese league and the Taiwan league to play the MLB champ.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Aug 13, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yup...

... that’d be awesome.

by kindred on Aug 14, 2008 12:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What if they beat our best team?

That kind of game has potential implications that will never allow it to happen.

by Egyptian on Aug 15, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then it promotes foreign baseball even more

and allows MLB to hype Japanese free agents even more.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Aug 15, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt that would actually happen

in a seven game series, at least. It’s not like we’re getting their crappiest players to come over here and play. The very best Japanese players come here and not all of them live up to the hype (see Matsui, Kazuo or Iwamuri, Akinori). Ichiro, Dice-K, and Hideki Matsui have been good players, but only one of them, Ichiro, really deserves to be talked about in HOF type conversations.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 19, 2008 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was just commenting on the crowd size from the link bgh posted. I realize the travel makes it ridiculous.

by MotherTruckinSteve on Aug 13, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if only we'd built the NASP

heck, MLB makes enough to refund the program. git’r’dun, Bud!

"..and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped." -Sir Belvedere

by SleepyCA on Aug 13, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the way, completely forgot this

I got my population data from here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_metropolitan_areas

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 12, 2008 4:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i live in okc..

no way we can support an mlb team. not enough people. the minor league team barely get 3,000 people in each game. it’s a big town but it’s not a huge sports town. basketball is different because there are half the amount of games.

we’ll see the destruction of the marlins FAR before we see the addition of two new teams. i think there are enough teams as it is already.

just switch colorado or san diego to the AL west. and switch pittsburgh with atlanta for nl central and east, just to be politically correct.

by KeepOnRolen on Aug 12, 2008 4:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If you're putting COL in the AL west

you shoudl put HOU in the NL west, so that you’d then have six five team divisions

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Aug 13, 2008 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+100

I absolutely hate the current system for the three sized divisions. Keeping the current number of teams but having three divisions in each league with five teams each makes everything fair, IMO. I know this causes headaches with scheduling, but why not have interleague games spread throughout the season instead of just in a couple of 7-10 day stretches? With inter-league games all season and off-days, I think the schedule could be worked out. (‘Course, I haven’t done any figuring out exactly HOW that schedule might look, but it couldn’t be a lot worse than what we have now, could it?)

by ArkansasTravs on Aug 14, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Instead

Instead of adding, mlb just needs to realign. Put an NL team in the AL. Have 3 divisions of 5 teams each.

You could then have a more balanced schedule and would have at least one interleague series at all times.

Keep the wild card…like it or not, it keeps things might interesting for a lot of teams.

by RDF922 on Aug 12, 2008 4:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

15 per league

is a good idea, EXCEPT it would be very (VERY) difficult to come up with a schedule that works. I’m sure it could be done…but would be quite strange. I will work on one when I have time because I love playing with things like this in my head…I just might need pen and paper once I get home to do it.

by stlfan on Aug 12, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it would require

constant inter league play. You would always have an NL vs AL series along with 7 NL vs NL and 7 AL vs AL series. So in the end you could have an interleague series in Sept deciding who the NL sends to the playoffs, I think that is the reasoning behind not doing it.

by StLHugo on Aug 12, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point

Interleague in September is not ideal, but if it evens everything up in the two leagues, I may be all for it.

still haven’t gotten time to do this little mental exercise.

by stlfan on Aug 13, 2008 10:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or you just have one team with an off day every day in each league

which isn’t that crazy. You have 28 teams playing, and two teams off. That’s already less than the rate of off days (2/30 = a little less than one off day every other week). And this doesn’t count interleague weeks, where you wouldn’t need any teams with off days.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Aug 13, 2008 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except that...

they play 3 game series usually, so it’d be 3 days off in a row.

by stlfan on Aug 13, 2008 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

you throw a few 2 and 4 game series in there, and you stagger them off, so that only one team is off, one day in a row.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Aug 13, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sure

Good luck selling that idea to owners. I’m sure they’d be lining up to volunteer their weekend days for off days.

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Aug 13, 2008 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also, my best guesses

would be that Milwaukee, Arizona, or Colorado (the teams with the least history in the NL) would move back into the AL. If it’s Milwaukee, then the Royals move to the West and the Brewers into the Central. If it is either of the other two, then you take the Astros and put them in the NL West and you take the DBacks or Rockies and throw them in the AL West.

by stlfan on Aug 12, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Radical Realignment

I have thought about this a lot in the past as well. I think that a radical realignment would work much better. It would never happen because of the whole DH thing, but here goes:

Southwest Division
Angels
Diamondbacks
Dodgers
Padres

Western Division
Athletics
Giants
Mariners
New Portland Team

Southern Division
Astros
Rangers
Rockies
New Las Vegas team (from Florida Marlins)

Midwest Division
Cardinals
Cubs
Royals
White Sox

Great Lakes Division
Blue Jays
Brewers
Tigers
Twins

Mideast Division
Indians
Pirates
Reds
New Indianapolis Team

Southeast Division
Braves
Nationals
Orioles
Rays

Northeast Division
Mets
Phillies
Red Sox
Yankees

This keeps in tact nearly all of the geographical rivalries and MOST of the historical ones. One that would be severely lacking would be the Giants/Dodgers rivalry.

In any case. I like it a whole lot better. I would hate to not see the Astros as much as we usually do, but that’s okay. We’d live with it and get to see KC and CHW more, which are easier to get to for road games (for those of us living in the Midwest.)

I’d like to see the schedule worked out this way.

- You play the three teams in your own division 22 times each. You play 1 three-game series and 2 four-game series at home and on the road against each. That’s 66 games.
- You play the 12 teams in your own league (but not in your division) 6 times each. You play them one home and away series of 3 games apiece. That’s a total of 72 games.
- You play all four teams in one division (per season – rotated annually – for real this time, Bud!) 6 times. That is 1 three-game series at home and on the road, the same as any other division in your league besides your own. That’s a total of 24 games.
- The grand total (66+72+24) adds back up to 162 games.

I think that is all that I wanted to put into this. If the Marlins are hell-bent on staying in the league, or Puerto Rico wants in…then I’d have to figure something else out with aligning, but other than that, I love this idea.

by stlfan on Aug 12, 2008 4:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

So does this abolish the AL and NL?

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 12, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just seed playoffs by schedule?

Joe Morgan’s head would explode.

Actually, mine might also. DH or no DH?

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 12, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good?

(To Joe Morgan’s head exploding)

I say no DH, but what do I know.

by stlfan on Aug 13, 2008 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Abolishment of the AL and NL

Technically, yes…but you could still keep 4 divisions per league. It would look more like the Eastern/Western Conferences of the NHL, I suppose.

by stlfan on Aug 13, 2008 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You could keep the Dodgers-Giants easily

Arizona goes to the southern where it belongs, the Giants go to the southwest, and the new Vegas team ends up in the Northwest, making that a craptastic division that the A’s win every single year.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 14, 2008 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not enough Houston Games

The only bad part is I live in Texas and the only Cards games I see are at Minure Maid

by SATXcardinal on Aug 16, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

good idea dude

no matter what though, MLB needs to get the Fish out of south beach. their stadium deal is not a sure thing, and no one bothers even going to watch them. they didnt even sell out their world series games. that franchise is a joke & if Bud’s boy didn’t own it, they’d be gone a long time ago.

Vegas needs a team & so does Portland. they’ve both been trying to get one for years. living in columbus, i can tell you MLB will never be here. the city is building a new park next to the hockey rink for the AAA Clippers. and there’s no way they’d build an even bigger park for an MLB club. people here care way to much about the Buckeyes any way, every other sport is an after thought. it’s a college football town,.it always has been & it always will be.

San Antonio is a town i’ve never thought about having a club. my question about them is, is Texas big enough to support another MLB club? Charlotte has been pushing for a club for years. if you move the Fish there, put a team in SA & Portland or Vegas, i prefer Vegas, MLB should be very good shape.

another question has to be, where to the players come from? are there enough players in the world to support two more MLB clubs? and have those clubs not be laughing stocks for their first 20 years of their lives?

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Aug 12, 2008 6:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Texas is plenty big in terms of population

but baseball is just kind of not a big deal here. There are some peple who enjoy it, but it’s not popular the way that it is in other places. And the Spurs absolutely OWN San Antonio

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Aug 13, 2008 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

laughingstock?

Like say the Cubs…No WS in 100 years and the lowly fish have 2 in less than 20!!!

by RDF922 on Aug 12, 2008 7:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

one thing that could be done

is move one national league team to american league and balance both leagues. Then have 2 teams playing interleague games at all times. That way you could have interleague play for all that like it and you could also have teams in same division in each league playing a more balanced schedule. I, personally would like it better than present interleague play.

by ridgesee on Aug 12, 2008 8:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

duh!!

excuse me, this has already been discussed. I scanned down and missed it then posted. Pardon me.

by ridgesee on Aug 12, 2008 9:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Not sure if it's been discussed other than one

poster mentioning they have a AAA team, but I have heard local radio shows in Portland pining for a Major League team. I seriously doubt it could happen

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Aug 13, 2008 12:53 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It depends on ownership

I don’t mean to cite Seattle because of its Pacific Northwest location, like Portland, but Seattle has supported the NFL and MLB pretty well. But, the SuperSonics still left. I firmly believe that any expansion team’s success depends largely on the ownership group’s vision and implementation of that vision. For instance, if Mark Cuban were to be the owner of the Portland ___, I think it would be successful because he would be committed to winning and delivering a great product to the city (which is why him buying the Cubs is terrifying to me).

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 13, 2008 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

Maybe supporting 3 teams is too much. Seattle is down to two and they’re doing very well.

Portland only has one (the Trailblazers) and I bet could support one more.

by stlfan on Aug 13, 2008 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The city of seattle is a bad example though

The Nba could have helped them there, and they had a goofy owner too. The Nba is keeping that city open for Expansion, which will make them even more money..the whole thing was a mess.

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Aug 13, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

My point was that ownership has a lot to do with a franchise’s success on and off of the field. Seattle, with the Seahawks, Mariners, and SuperSonics is a good example of this, as you point out.

"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."

--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS

by bgh on Aug 13, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sounders FC

But we’re getting an expansion MLS team in Seattle!

Tracking the Cards' playoff chances daily: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/Cardinalspsodds.php

by ColinMacLeod on Aug 13, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I enjoy the thought that Basketball teams are getting replaced by soccer teams.

Seattle lost the Sonics, and got the Sounders. St. Louis lost the Hawks, and it took even longer to get a team back. And it’s not even official yet.

Prospects are good. Especially when they aren't rushed.

by CraveCase on Aug 14, 2008 8:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A bunch of friends of mine decdied that any new Seattle team

needs to be called ‘the Grunge.’ They could have flannel-colored uniforms, a mascot named ‘Vedder’ and the awesomest in-stadium transition music ever.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Aug 14, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the stadium parking lot

would be declared the hippest parking lot of 1992.
sorry, random onion reference…

by mattybobo on Aug 14, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cuban

Him buying the Cubs really doesn’t worry me all that much, honestly. You can turn around an NBA franchise by acquiring one great player like Nowitzki and filling in with good players around him. He is prone to making knee-jerk moves, like the Jason Kidd trade this year when they clearly weren’t in contention to win a title. You can’t build a baseball team this way (see the Texas Rangers), and I don’t think that he has the patience to stay the course that is required in today’s game. The Cubs are never going to have the type of revenue streams that teams like the Mets, Yankees, and Boston have, so they can’t just spend willy-nilly and build a ballclub that way.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Aug 14, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

154 Games

If we’re going for radical realignment, we should drop the number of regular season games to 154. Then we can move up playoffs or get more creative with playoff scheduling. Say… in a 4 division league, the 4th division winner faces off against the top 2nd-place team in a 1-game play-in game (akin to the 2 wild cards per league idea I’ve seen floated about).

Tracking the Cards' playoff chances daily: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/Cardinalspsodds.php

by ColinMacLeod on Aug 13, 2008 4:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Kip Wells and Livan Hernandez say...

there are all ready too many teams

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Aug 13, 2008 5:03 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The same Wells

that is currently unemployed and would like for there to be another 2 teams so that he could be pitching right now?

by StLHugo on Aug 14, 2008 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe jealousblues meant

that wells and hernandez demonstrate that there are too many teams? i.e., the fact that they both had jobs until recently

by mattybobo on Aug 14, 2008 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

or what I'm thinking

people of that “caliber” shouldn’t be in the bigs but since there are too many teams they are.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Aug 14, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

27 times

Nobody here has an issue with the proposed schedule of 27 games against each of three opponents? 81 games against only three other teams? How’d you like to be a season ticket holder and have to go see Cards -Rockies 14 times a year?

Also, have fun telling Tampa the Yankees are only coming there for 3 games a year.

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Aug 13, 2008 6:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hmm

Touche. I didn’t think about it from that angle. The math just worked out so well.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
"Just because nobody understands you doesn't make you an artist."

by Mr Redbird on Aug 13, 2008 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No thanks!

Seriously, we get rid of our division fodder (Pirates, Astros, Reds) and get a tougher team in the Rockies?

Screw that! Put us in a division with the Bucs, Padres, Giants and Reds :)

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Aug 13, 2008 9:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

LB

I am sure Larry would love for us to be in a division with the Rockies he might get to see more games.

by StLHugo on Aug 14, 2008 8:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like the idea of 32 teams,

but the Brewers will jump ship back to the AL if this kind of proposition is set up. Which would actually make a lot of sense. That way there would essentially be one expansion team in both leagues, and the AL would get a “traitor” team.

Prospects are good. Especially when they aren't rushed.

by CraveCase on Aug 14, 2008 8:08 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Why would they jump ship?

You have to employ one more great hitter at a great cost. They probably can’t afford the two big free agents on their team at the end of the year right now…and you have to ADD a slugger?

Plus, right now, the NL is weaker (so everyone in the world thinks) so they have a better shot here in the NL.

Just my thoughts.

by stlfan on Aug 14, 2008 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they have their DH already

they just need to resign Prince

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Aug 14, 2008 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No freakin' way

the Brewers will ever go back to the NL and give up 15-18 games a year vs. the Cubs and Cardinals. Sure, they’d get 3 games apiece against the Red Sox and Yankees, but that’s still less than the 18 or so huge paydays from when the Cards or Cubs come to town.

Am I the only one in this thread who realizes the impact of all these propositions on attendance and ticket purchases?

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Aug 14, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Typo

“NL” should be “AL”

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Aug 14, 2008 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think my proposition

would do wonders for ticket sales. I love the geographically linked setup. If the Cards played the Cubs/White Sox/Royals 66 times per year (33 times on the road/home each) are you telling me they wouldn’t sell out all of those games (all 4 teams)?

by stlfan on Aug 14, 2008 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

Wonders for ticket sales?

Baltimore, Tampa, and Toronto would kill you for taking away their Yankee and Red Sox games.

Milwaukee would kill you for taking away the Cubs and Cardinals.

The Dodgers would kill you for taking away the Giants.

They Royals don’t even sell out the 3 games a year the Cardinals come to town. I’m not sure why you think they’d sell more tickets if the Cards came more often.

As for Cards-Cubs and Cubs-Sox, I don’t know. There’s an argument that maybe 33 games a year would dilute that rivalry.

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Aug 14, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry...22 games a year.

My bad…66/3=22 I can’t think apparently.

I would be willing to make the change listed above (further up in the thread) to keep the Dodgers/Giants in the same division…that’s a no-brainer.

Also, I will have to disagree.

Toronto averaged over 26,000 people when the ROYALS came to town for four games, nearly 25,000 one series when the Orioles came to town, over 35,000 when the Indians came to town. Yes, they averaged close to 40,000 when the Yanks came to town, but not nearly that many when Boston did (on OPENING weekend). I think it all depends on how the team is doing, how the promotions are set up, and when you are playing (i.e. – weekends usually draw more games…afternoon games during the week when school is in session do not).

I think that if the Blue Jays played 33 home games against the Tigers, Twins, and Brewers, a LOT of fans would come out to see them play. I think it’d be the same for the other teams that are geographically close to one another.

I could be wrong, but I’d like to think that’s correct.

by stlfan on Aug 14, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Easier Fix

The most simple way to fix the problem. Move the Florida Marlins to San Antonio and Have them switch leagues to AL West. Move the Pirates to the NL East. That way we have 6 5-team divisions

by SATXcardinal on Aug 15, 2008 3:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I still don't think...

scheduling would work out.

by stlfan on Aug 15, 2008 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Whoah Oh. Mexico

Free Max Lanier.

"If I ain't startin' I ain't departin'"

by templetown on Aug 15, 2008 11:36 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

 I like the Wild Card and I would want to manage to keep it in play, as it were. I think the best thing to maintain the Wild Card option is to keep 3 divisions of 5 teams each. As it stands, the AL west has but 4 teams, giving those clubs a statistical advantage of 25% to win the division. Compare this to the >17% chance a team in the NL Central has and I think you’ll agree that the numbers are in need of realignment.

I do not think expansion is the best option for two reasons: 1) It continues to dilute the level of play on the field and 2) It would hamper the "Give me a new stadium or a tax credit or a what-have-you or else I’m moving to city X" leverage currently enjoyed by the owners. Also, expansion would need to consider the markets of minor league teams, too, which complicates most other potential big markets.

Contraction just isn’t an option any more. I mean, if the Expos could be salvaged (though the Nationals are far, far away from a model franchise on or off the field), any team can be put into a trust and flipped for a profit by the owners.

So, to keep the Wild Card and give proper symmetry to every division, one team has to move out of the NL Central, one team needs to be added to the AL west, and one team needs to be moved from the NL to the AL. It could work this way: Move the Rockies to the AL West. Colorado already plays in a "western" division, so they wouldn’t be affected (travel, game start times on the road, etc) other than switching to a new league. Then, move the Astros to the NL west. Geographically, it’s the best option available.

Now, if Mr. Redbird does get his way, may I make one suggestion: Instead of naming the divisions in terms of rough geography, do the old-school NHL thing and give the divisions proper names (e.g.: how the St. Louis Blues would play the Chicago Blackhawks in the Norris Division). It would be a very cool way of incorporating baseball greats into the everyday play (e.g.: the Cardinals would face off against Brock Division opponents the Cubs, while the Yankees and Red Sox battled it out for the Ruth Division lead, etc).

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

by palampe on Aug 19, 2008 5:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

again, the problem

with 15 team leagues is the scheduling.

by stlfan on Aug 19, 2008 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We can put a man on the moon

but we can’t figure out a way to have 15 teams in each league.

hecanthithecanthithecanthithecanthit

by Alxfritz on Aug 19, 2008 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree 100%

with the disadvantage of being in a 6 team division. Fortunately, we can count the Pirates out every year…..but what happens one day if they suddenly become the florida marlins? I think this would’ve been addressed long ago, if there were 6 COMPETITIVE teams in one division, but with perrenial non-contenders in the Reds and Pirates, the disadvantage is overlooked, maybe even looked at as an advantage.

Nick Stavinoah = John Gall

by The Ghost of Todd Burns on Aug 23, 2008 4:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not fair in the AL

The proposal of having Boston and New York in the same division without a wild card is really unfair. Both of those teams put up records that result in the one in second being better than the rest of the divisional winners. There needs to be some way around that, whether it be 6 team playoffs, or a division rearranging.

by Gnick on Aug 23, 2008 11:29 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If they can't even win their own division...

Why play in the post season?

If you are absolutely insistent (or if enough people are, which there will be because of ratings and bringing $$ in), then OK. Then, fine. Let’s make it 8 teams make the playoffs, top two from each division. Three series of “best of 5” games without all the damn off days…and then, the World Series in “best of 7” fashion.

by stlfan on Aug 24, 2008 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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