Cubs Frightening Roster Situation
by guayzimi on Jul 9, 2008 3:11 PM EDT
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PrintThe 2008 Chicago Cubs are certainly an imposing bunch, but if you want to feel a bit better about things take a look at what's just over the horizon for the small bears.
2007 Payroll: $99 million
2008 Payroll: $118 million
2009 Projected Payroll: $122 million
Core Players:
| Signed Until | Ave Salary | Age | No trade? | |
| Zambrano | 2012 | $18m | 27 | Full |
| Ramirez | 2011 | $15m | 30 | Partial |
| Soriano | 2014 | $18m | 32 | Full |
| Lee | 2010 | $13m | 32 | Full |
| Fukudome | 2011 | $13m | 31 | Full |
| Lilly | 2010 | $12m | 32 | Full |
These guys have been great this year, but they are on the wrong side of 30 (except for Z), they are locked in at a high price, and they cannot be moved. Lee, Ramirez, and Soriano have yet to show any decline in their performance. Lee was over his head in 2005, but has plateaued as a steady 130 OPS+ guy as have Soriano and Ramirez. Lilly doesn't appear to have lost much since last year when he was very good, though a couple early starts inflated his ERA. Fukudome has performed as advertised and may yet crank up the power.
The real story is some worrying numbers from Zambrano.
| Year | FIP | K/9 |
| 2004 | 3.41 | 8.2 |
| 2005 | 3.62 | 8.5 |
| 2006 | 4.15 | 8.9 |
| 2007 | 4.55 | 7.4 |
| 2008 | 3.69 | 6 |
That is not a good trend for a pitcher working on his sixth straight 200+ inning season. His FIP (description here for the uninitiated) looks improved this year, but it is a product of only giving up three home runs in 112 innings. His XFIP (FIP with a "normalized" home run rate, explanation) is essentially unchanged from the past two years.
2009 Free Agents:
| Age | Likely Contract | |
| Dempster | 31 | 4 years / $48m |
| Edmonds | 38 | 1 year / $8m |
| Wood | 31 | 3 years / $24m |
| Howry | 34 | ? |
| Eyre | 36 | ? |
| Lieber | 38 | ? |
These are rough estimates assuming the players in question continue at their current pace, which of course they won't. For Wood you have to look at Lidge's contract and discount for injury risk and reduced effectiveness. For Dempster, I looked at Carlos Silva specifically. There are no replacements for Dempster or Wood in the minors. Rich Hill could come back to life (unlikely) and Marmol can become the closer, but then Marmol's slot would need to be filled. If both players are signed at the above rates, the Cubs 2009 payroll would skyrocket to $142 million. In a side note, the Cubs might be wrecking Marmol in their furious effort to win now.
These guys are as good as gone. The Cubs are currently for sale, and because the Tribune Company is looking to sell Wrigley Field and the team separately, the Cubs will be facing a steep rent increase if the sale(s) proceed as expected. Expectations are for a steady or decreasing payroll.
Arb-eligible Players:
| Proj. Salary | |
| Gaudin | $2.2m |
| Wuertz | $1.4m |
| Cotts | $1m |
| Johnson | $2m |
| Cedeno | $1m |
There will be bullpen upheaval with Wood, Howry, and Eyre moving on. Johnson was already non-tendered last year, so he might be a candidate for release, but with Edmonds a free agent and Felix Pie apparently a bust, they might bring Johnson back.
Minor League System:
Geovany Soto looks like a hit, while Pie and Rich Hill look like busts. This is a real killer for the Cubs. Hill has been sent to rookie ball at the Cubs spring training facility in Mesa. In his first appearance he walked three guys and gave up a hit while only lasting a third of an inning... in the AZL league. Now he came back five days later to pitch well, but his ability to contribute in 2009 is highly questionable. Pie has a .241/.293/.400 for Triple A Iowa. He sprained his thumb and missed some time in late June. In seven games since his return he's 11 for 35 with 2 XBHs and 3 walks. In 264 major league appearances he's posted a .217/.275/.321 line, although his handling has been reminiscent of Anthony Reyes. The win-now Cubs just can't show the patience he needs. He'll be 24 years old at the start of 2009... getting a bit long in the tooth for a top prospect.
The rest of the system looks downright terrible. With the graduation of Soto and the trade of Gallagher, there are no prospects in the Baseball America's pre-season top 100. Josh Vitters, taken third overall last year, is adapting to pro ball slowly, but seems to be coming around. In any case Vitters won't be seen in Wrigley until late 2010 or 2011 at the earliest. Other notables include Donald Veal, Tyler Colvin, Jeff Samardzija, and Jose Ceda. Only Ceda can be said to be excelling. Colvin is a corner outfielder with a sub-.700 ops at double-A. Veal is also at double-A and will be 24 in September. Samardzija has a guaranteed 5 year / $10 million contract with a full no-trade claus and is currently struggling with control and hittability issues. He will make an appearance in a Cubs uniform at some point, but he'll be 24 next year and his performance hasn't come close to matching his contract.
Summary:
Call me a complete homer, but this has the makings of a team that will lose 90-100 games every year from 2010-2015. Aging stars with unmovable contracts, a pitiful minor league system, and an ownership situation will likely damage the on-the-field product, at least in the near-term, will conspire to doom this team for many years. They had better win now.
[L.B. EDIT ---- comments on this thread are closed. nice post by guayzimi, but the discussion turned childish and stupid in short order. disappointing.]
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I don't think they'll lose quite that many games
but yeah, they need to win this year or fall flat
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 9, 2008 3:40 PM EDT reply actions
Yeah, not happening
The Cubs, with all of the buying power of the Boston Red Sox, will ALWAYS be at the top of the division under the new ownership. Friends, get used to it, the Cubs are a big market team finally acting like a big market team.
The won’t win every year, but they’ll will always be around just like Boston or New York.
I have to agree...
It took them awhile but they finally figured out how to spend the money they have and I doubt the Cubs will be the “Loveable Loosers” for quite awhile…at least during the regular seasons.
Except, ya know
the Red Sox have a fabulous farm system and the Cubs don’t.
That is the difference. You can have all the money in the world, but when the Coco Crisps, Manny Ramirez, Dice K’s, Curt Schilling’s and David Ortiz’s of the world get dinged up, you need someone to step in and contribute.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 9, 2008 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions
heh
the Mets being a pretty good comparison (although I don’t know what their farm system is)
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 9, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
The Cubs minor league system/player development staff
is among the smallest and least funded of all of the 30 teams in baseball. Over 3 decades of corporate ownership will do that. The new owner, and god-forbid its Mark Cuban, is going to go full boar on the other end of the spectrum, in terms of investment.
There is no doubt from this point, until baseball institutes some sort of salary cap that the Cubs will be the dominant team of the NL Central, and in all likelihood the entire NL.
The labor issue will probably have to be addressed.
by Santos Sorrow on Jul 9, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
And how exactly do you know all of this?
And when they do eventually sell the team. How long do you think it will take to re-staff that development staff and then re-build that farm system to the point it is producing a decent stream of talent?
are you trying to tell me...
that Jeff Samardzija isn’t an ace wide receiver pitcher in the making?
The difference is that the Cubs don’t play in the AL East. The Brewers and Reds have promising young players, but they are both decidedly small market teams, and therefore have a rather small margin of error in all phases of management. The Brewers, for all of their great hitting prospects, stand to lose a large portion of their rotation after this year. They also have one of the worst team defenses I’ve ever seen (although better since Braun moved), and just traded away an excellent prospect for a rental player. There system is still better than the Cubs, but they have too many concerns to dominate this division in the foreseeable future.
As for your team, it’s not like the Cardinal minor league system is that much better than the Cubs’ system. You guys have a couple of names that are interesting, and obviously Rasmus is a great prospect, but your system isn’t exactly intimidating.
No, I don’t believe the Cubs will dominate this division every year in the near future, but I think the OPs conclusions are probably even farther from the truth.
But the Cardinals will add payroll flexibility
to that “interesting” farm system. Something that took a couple years of actual focus to accomplish.
Will They?
I don’t follow the Cardinals enough to know whether this has been stated explicitly by the organization/insiders, or whether this is just your conjecture.
you mean
like last year when we had 13 guys promoted from our minor league system to help win a divison championship?
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Yah...
which makes them no longer minor leaguers. Murton and Gallagher are no longer in your system, Hoffpauir doesn’t look like a legit everyday player, and I can’t see anyone on the AAA roster that looks like he’s going to be a productive major league player. I live in Iowa and I’ve seen my share of the I-Cubs this season. Patterson and Gallagher are the only two guys who I thought would be good major leaguers after watching them this year. Pie has a bit confidence problem right now and needs to find what he had a couple of years ago when he was raking at the AAA level on a nightly basis—he’s still young, so he might find it, but you can’t bank on that either.
The Cubs have spent money for a long time—they were one of the top bankrolled teams in the NL for most of the 1980’s and didn’t won ONE pennant. They just haven’t spent it all that wisely, and they rarely make a deal that improves their farm system by trading an aging superstar for prospects when given the opportunity (See Sosa, Sammy in 2004) because of fan outrage.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
selling high...
has been paradoxically both a weakness and a strength for the Cubs at different times during Hendry’s tenure. He’s failed to move several players when their value was highest (guys like Pie and Hill come to mind most recently), but then again, he’s made several deals for impact players while giving up next to nothing. Guy’s like Bobby Hill, Brendan Harris/Francis Beltran, and Hee-Seop Choi have netted us some pretty fine packages in return.
there's a handicap on that trade though...
as he was dealing with Littlefield, so full points weren’t awarded. Generally speaking, making trades has been one of Hendry’s strongest skills. On the other hand, he’s very weak in long-term planning and player development.
Damn it Bobby!
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
you are
right the cubs will never again produce anyone from the minor leagues
compared with the vast fertile valley that is the cards system we should just fold the team after this season.
The guys we have at Iowa dont even really play baseball, they are the remains of a traveling lacross team we picked up to fill space
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
you know
you can go toss off as far as I’m concerned.
I never said the Cardinals farm system was better or worse in that post. Find it and quote it if it’s in there…it’s not.
Not once did I say the Cubs weren’t EVER going to produce another impact player—I simply said I don’t see an impact player at Iowa right now.
Fact: There’s nobody in your farm system rated in the BA’s Top 100 (as was pointed out in the original post), and that’s a pretty darn good list with a good track record.
Fact: Pie was once on that list and has fallen off. Rich Hill completely lost the plate and his velocity. Both of those guys could come back and be good players—but they sure aren’t what we all thought they were at the beginning of last year.
Fact: There are other teams out there with groups of aging players and little cap flexibility and most of them are struggling right now: the Yankees and Mets come to mind. The Mets emptied their farm system to get Johan Santana last year—they are probably worse off than the Cardinals, but have better cap flexibility in the next few years. The Yanks are getting less production for their money than any team in baseball, but have three young pitchers that could be pretty good and a farm system stocked with good players. If you look at the Red Sox, they don’t have any commitments on their payroll that go past 2011 currently, and very few of their players have a no-trade clause.
The original poster is pointing out things that are “factual” - you can’t argue your payroll position or the number of shitty contracts your team has. You can’t argue that Sam Zell is selling the stadium separate from the club - he is. I don’t agree with his doomsday scenario, but he’s mostly correct on his insights and I believe the Cubs will have trouble because they don’t play in a luxury box palace like Yankee Stadium, they don’t have their own TV network (although that might be a good idea if Cuban buys the team as he has his own production company), so revenue is going to be difficult to come by for them. This will make it tough for them to afford a $150 million payroll next year.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
fact
i really dont care about the BA top 100- the cubs dont have a cant miss prospect right now thats too bad but not any reason to panic
fact- rich hill’s velocity is just fine, i dont know why you said otherwise. and if reports are to be believed he found the fix in this mechanics and so far is doing much better
fact- the cubs team is aging, but aramis and derek lee dont seem to be in the old folks home just yet
fact- we can afford big contracts because we have $
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
lets see
2007 Cubs + 13 minor league call ups = NL Central
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions
The Amazing 13
Felix Pie, Carmen Pignatielo, Sam Fuld, Rocky Cherry, Angel Guzman, Billy Petrick, Clay Rapada, Scott More, Koyie Hill, Rob Bowen, Jake Fox, Angel Pagan, Kevin Hart.
Awesome list. And obviously a list of guys that truly fueled the Cubs to the divisoin title.
Can you refresh my memory and tell me how many of those guys are on a major league roster today? One?
rob bowen
? did you maybe mean Soto? i know its hard to get your facts straight when you just want to flame away but try a bit harder
Eric Patterson was on that list too, so was Matt Murton, did you just make that list up?
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, I made all those names up.
They never existed. Rob Bowen was a figment of my imagination.
it’s funny, i can remember the guys the cubs called up, but you conviently wipe them from you’re memory banks.
Anyway, was it 13 or are you just randomly picking the number 13 to fit into your arguement? So, fine, you want to include Eric Patterson and Matt Murton on your list. Fine. And let me tell you how impressive those guys are that the cubs couldn’t wait to find other players to play in place of them. Lou wouldn’t give Patterson or Murton the time of day.
And that doesn’t change that fact that that list of 13(?) didn’t propel the cubs to the division crown. Seems like Alfonso Soriano, Jacque Jones, Aramas Ramirez, Derrick Lee, Ted Lilly, Jason Marquis, Carlos Zambrano, and a handful of other players might have had a little more to do with it than your Magic 13(?)
rob
bowen was aquired in a trade, he was never in our minor league system
is it this hard to check things before you type them?
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions
and
they dont have to win the divison! all they have to do is help when people like Soriano go down and they did that, in Soto’s case he won the catching job outright in september and he sure did help us clinch a tight race
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
wait
so now they only have to “help”. Define help. Because holding a roster spot and being barely competent (and that’s a stretch for the vast majority of those guys) does not = NL Central Champs.
whatever dude
Rob Bowen is an amazing major leaguer. And yeah, i knew he was the major cog to the Michael Barret trade, which was another sell-low masterpiece by Hendry.
Doesn’t change the fact it you trade for a minor leaguer (and that’s basically what he is since he isn’t worth a damn as a major leaguer), he’s still a minor leaguer. Anyway, it really doesn’t matter. Let’s take him off the magic 13(?).
Whew.
Wait. You’re right. That’s an awesome list!!!!!!
must have been
ok because guess what? it fucking worked- we won the divison
and we are going to do it again this year
and of those shitty guys on that list
one is among the best catchers in baseball, and 3 of the others just landed us a major midseason trade
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
If I recall
Hendry had traded one of the most important parts of that run, Jacque Jones to the Marlins, but the trade was nixed by the commish due to money issues. Then Jones went on fire in the second half of the season and basically carried the Cubs to the title.
just admit
your pissy because the cubs have a good team and you’re such a homer that you cant stand it.
i had no issue in 04 and 05 saying that the cards were awesome because they were. all you want to do is wish it all away and your arguments are terrible because of it
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions
I have no problem acknowleding the cubs are the best team in the division
I’ve repeated over and over that the cubs are the bes team in the division. I’ve ARUGED with people here stating that Carlos Marmol is head and shoulders better than Chris Perez (who is a HUGE fan favorite around here). what i do have an issue with is proclaiming the Amazing 13(?) as a major cog in propelling the team to the Divisoin Crown.
i wasnt
and i didnt say that
but they were filler for our team when people went down and a few of them were actually really good- thats about all you really ask from any farm system that isnt loaded with top shelf talent
Soto = really good
Bowen = not a minor leaguer
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know if I'd say "carried"
but he was great down the stretch. Soriano’s ridiculous 14 homers in September coupled by the general boobery of 2007 Cubs MVP Ned Yost were also quite important to the stretch run.
I believe Jones
won quite a few games for the Cubs. He hit a lot of home runs in close games that no one else was getting hits in.
jones
hit like 5 hr’s in the entire season last year
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions
the
guy just said jones hit a lot of home runs in close games and i pointed out that JJ didnt hit alot of homeruns period
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions
my bad
still doesn’t change the fact that if that trade not going through wasn’t quite possibly the greatest thing to happen to the cubs.
Btw, who played centerfield for the cubs down the stretch, when Soriano couldn’t and Pie flaked?
Jones in August .349, 377, .532, 3 HR, 11 doubles, 21 rbi
Jones in Sept: .342, .376, .430, 5 doubles, 1 triple, 16 rbi.
So maybe I was wrong about the home runs...
but he hit .332 with 46 rbi’s in the second half last season. Most of that came from August-October.
In wins last year, he hit .338 for the Cubs, .228 in losses. Sounds to me like he carried the team to victory or fell hard in losses.
I like math too!
2008 – 1908 = ???
My arithmetic is a little fuzzy
[/cheap shot]
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
Haha no
If it were an ESPN broadcast you’d be getting your daily fellatio right about now
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
espn
there hasn’t been enough talk about the yankees and red sox or A-Rod’s personal life for this the be an espn broadcast.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon
i remember
a game in the 9th inning this year and they stopped talking about the action to talk about joba fucking chamberlin
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions
joba
i actually like him (he has some filthy stuff), but the coverage that espn gives him is sick.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon
he is great
but i dont need to hear about it in the bottom of the 9th in a tight game
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions
No, it's a cub promotion
be sure to be there in late July when there giving away replica 1908 Cub hats to the first 10,000 fans.
If you’re going to get bent out of shape over the national media, you might want to take a look at your own team.
yes, we get it...
you don’t like the Cubs or Cubs fans. Most of us came over for a little polite discourse, though, and if you were dead-set on snuffing out good conversation then Mission_Accomplished.jpg/800px-USS_Abraham_Lincoln(CVN-72)_Mission_Accomplished.jpg” >mission accomplished
Being a big market team certainly has helped the Mets, Tigers, Dodgers, Mariners...etc.
Just because you’re now willing to spend the money doesn’t mean you’re going to dominate the NL for the next decade. Hell, the team with the second lowest payroll in MLB has the best record this season
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
i dont
think we are going to dominate anything.
but then again i dont think we are going to lose 100 games for 5 years in a row like the OP stated
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
the 100 losses was probably over the top by the original poster
but i think the small bears will have trouble competing in the central in a few years when some of those contracts aren’t looking to good and they can’t afford to add any payroll because of them. clearly the brewers and the reds have a much brighter future in terms of young talent. meanwhile the cardinals have more payroll flexibility. the astros and pirates….well the cubs will probably be in at least 4th place.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon
100 losses
for 5 years isnt over the top its batshit insane. i would expect something like that over at bleed cubbie blue.
the cubs might be crippled by these deals or they might just expand payroll and keep on trucking. for all of these doomsday scenario’s to play out the cubs are going ot have to have most of those good veterans go to shit at the same time and sell the team to a guy with no $
thats not likely to happen
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
payroll
what makes you think the cubs can just add more payroll. as the post shows the cubs added $20 million in payroll from last year and have more money tied up next year than this year, but will obviously have some holes to fill next year (CF, SP, closer, bullpen). I doubt they can just add another $20+ million to fix the holes. The cubs are a bigger market team than the cardinals, but they aren’t on the yankees, red sox, or probably even mets level.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon
we are selling the team
to somebody who is very very rich at the end of this year
thats how
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions
every team is owned by someone (or people) who is very rich.
and the Tribune company has a LOT of money which has been put into the payroll the past 3 or 4 years and they still haven’t won anything more than a division crown.
Be careful what you wish for.
alright man
there isnt much room for discussion with you
the cubs suck and we wont have any money after this year blah blah, keep wishing the cubs away and maybe it will work out for you and we will be dead last forever and ever
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
and keep putting words in my mouth
just so you can get out of this looking like you magically won a discussion. Just let me know when this mythical rich man is going to buy the cubs and raise the payroll to over 200 million dollars next year to fix all the teams woes.
ok
you win the discussion
you really showed me whats what
if you want to take some bets as to which team finishes ahead of each other next year drop me a line at ACBby ACB on Jul 9, 2008 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
weird
if you want to take a bet as to who finishes ahead of each other
next year let me know, might be a fun experiment
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions
hmmmm
i would not take that bet, but i’d be willing to bet the cardinals record in 2009 improves from 2008 more than the cubs 2009 record improves from 2008. obviously the cubs record will probably be better this year so it will be tougher to improve upon next year, but its still an interesting bet.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon
who says I want to bet with you?
just because you challenge me (a person you don’t even know) to a bet in some odd way to try and win the discussion, again.
twins
i could be wrong and i haven’t researched this at all, but i believe the twins owner carl poland? is the the richest owner in baseball. however, the twins aren’t exactly going on spending sprees. the “rich” guy that buys the cubs probably got rich by making smart business decisions. dumping so much money into a baseball team’s payroll that they do not make money is not a smart business decision.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon
point taken on our system...
which is, indeed, atrocious, but you might want to recheck your numbers on Josh Vitters. Although he’s cooled off a bit over the past couple of days, he opened for short-season A Boise raking. He’s currently hitting a very solid .325/.384/.481/.864 (he’s only 18).
As for your other concerns, you bring up some legitimate problems in the near future (like the fate of Derrek Lee and our first base position, lack of pitching depth, especially in the high minors, and the eventual albatross status of Soriano’s contract), but I think you underestimate this team’s ability to throw money around. Chicago tends to jump on the bandwagon when the Cubs do well, and we have no shortage of simpletons ready to feed the team money by the truckload.
The value of owning the Cubs rests in its strength as an asset. After doling out the payroll, the team isn’t terribly profitable, but the franchise itself has picked up significant value through development and growth of the brand. Luckily, development of that brand, and a high payroll are certainly not mutually exclusive. Supposedly, prospective buyers interested in the bottom-line alone have been scared away by the franchise’s high price. What does that mean? It means the Cubs are going to be sold to a billionaire looking to stroke his already turgid ego.
Congratulations, he's the 3rd overall pick
and is killing rookie ball, in his second year in that league.
And for what its worth, he “opened” in Peoria but fell on his face.
ok
sorry our 18 year old isnt in AAA with 48 HR’s just yet
i suppose we should write him off because “tacklebox” says so
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions
never said he should be in AAA
But there are plent of high schoolers drafted waaaaaay behind Vitters who are doing well in leagues much more competitive than short season A.
good for them
what exaclty is your point? that vitters might not pan out? really?
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
nope
just that Thelonious was skewing the information just to make a point. Kinda like the Magnificent 13(?).
simple research takes a lot of time, I know...
but he signed in the middle of August and only played a few games last year. The sample-size was just about worthless, and furthermore he was coming off months of inactivity after suffering from mono. As for Peoria, he played a couple of games, and then suffered from tendonitis in his elbow.
Don’t pretend that I’m calling him anything close to a sure thing, but yes, an 18 year old doing well IS somewhat impressive (even in low-A, and yes, even in a hitters’ league).
just wondering
the Cubs being sold to Cuban is more or less a done deal?
No sarcasm, just wondering
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
no
but its going to very very pricey for who ever gets the team and you would imagine that whoever buys the team is going to have an interest in making hte cubs better and have some very deep pockets
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
this is going to sound like i am a jerk, buts in all in good fun
duh. whoever busy them is going to have an interest in making them better? no shit. its not like the movie Major League where whoever buys the cubs is going to build the team to lose so that they suck so much they can move the team. the cubs have sucked for 100 years and they’ve kept the team there. haha.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon
In fact, it was the Sox that almost moved at one point
Not that they have been terribly successful over the years, either
Everyone hopes whoever buys the team...
will make the team better, but that’s not always the case. Cuban probably won’t be the owner of the Cubs because a sale has to be approved by the rest of baseball owners who tend to be quiet and not flashy (except Steinbrenner). When this rumor first started a couple of years ago, I heard that it would be difficult to get the owners to approve the sale to Cuban because of his personality and his hands on ownership style.
I brought this up in a thread a few days ago
the worst part about all of those huge contracts to the cubbies big guns is that they are all backloaded (with the exception of Lee’s). Therefore, as the players age and presumably their skills decline, the cubs will be paying more for them. In a few years the cubs could potentially have a lot of money tied up in players who aren’t worth it or are on the DL. This would be like the Cards of last year IMO with Edmonds, Rolen, and Eckstein.
On a side note, this is why I hate backloaded contracts to aging players. It makes no sense to pay a player more when they will likely be worse. The only reason a team should do this is if they are in total win now mode and don’t care at all about the future (which the Cubs might be).
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon
that whole methodology...
has been greatly sped up by the imminent sale. Whoever’s buying knows that he’s entering an organization with a lot of fixed, and possible sunk costs in the near future. I think Zell, and Tribco realize that this is better than the alternative (a “fixer-upper”)
i agree
if the cubs win (or maybe even make it to) the world series this year, they will probably be media darlings like the bo sox in 2004 and it will be easy to ignor the albatross contracts looming the in the future.
however, as they are currently constructed i don’t think the cubs have the staying power that the sox did (in terms of winning) because obviously they don’t have the ridiculous depth on the farm that the sox had.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon
buying a ring
i cant say im a fan of throwing money at big players to win championships. while this seems to work for some teams, it doesn’t seem to be a sure thing. i think a lot of people neglect the attitudes of big name players and the effect on team chemistry. look at the tigers this year or the mets, underperforming players with the money.
Rick Ankiel could throw out Chuck Norris. Easy.
you know
Your payroll isn’t THAT much lower than ours, and the Cubs have more revenue. Call it buying a championship if it makes you feel better, but it’s not like the Cubs have snatched every single player they’ve wanted over the past several years. If they did, we’d have Rafael Furcal, and not some hackneyed, overrated cajun manning short.
The key here is, don't post fanposts about the Cubs
because it appears about 5 of their fans get really upset if you do.
ahem
if somebody posted some stupid about the cards like this you would be over there. you go over there anyways
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions
stupid?
i think its hard to argue with the idea that some of those contracts will look bad in a few years and the cubs don’t have the best farm system to balance it out.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon
that would have
been a good argument
but alot of the stuff the OP wrote is just false and his predictions are a joke
by ACB on Jul 9, 2008 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
calm down much?
2010 the Cubs will have $89M i salaries owed to 5 players that will be in their mid-thirties and 1 pitcher that seems to be slowing down all ready. Isn’t $89M a lot for any team to be concerned about, no matter their revenue? I think so.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
what a shame
guayzimi posts a thoughtful thread, and it turns into the most un-intelligent thread of the summer. terrible showing all around.
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