The Cards will, at worst, have split the season series with a Phillies team which – it would appear – outmatch them in every facet. Lucky for us, wins like last night’s are the hallmark of this year’s edition of the Redbirds. Great stuff.

And I keep asking myself, what’s the point? He would come to St. Louis and he would be pitching to contact. His velocity would dip to the low nineties or low eighties. Not every pitcher thrives under Duncan, especially the guys with “stuff”. What you need is a mediocre fastball you can command and a nice curveball and you are going to succeed here.

However, when you have an opportunity to get one of the best players in the game (and yes, I felt this way about Mulder too) you have to do what you can. So maybe the trade comes back and bites you… but for a few prospects you get one of the best arms around? Seems to me the Cardinals brass either didn’t want him, or didn’t feel there was enough discussion about Harden on VEB to help them make their dicision.

I think Marshall’s minor-league numbers more closely resemble Jaime Garcia’s than Mitch Boggs’. Most people project Garcia as a #3 starter, which is about where Marshall’s ceiling lies. And Patterson has a much better resume than Tyler Greene — Greene has posted sub-.800 OPSs at double A, while Patterson has been well above .800 at Triple A. This year Patterson is hitting .323 / .356 / .519 at triple A; last year he hit .297 / .362 / .455 in a full triple A season. very good numbers for a middle infielder. the Cardinals don’t really have a prospect like this guy; if they did, he would be starting for St. Louis.

i think the package would be more along the lines of Garcia, Duncan, Skip Schumaker, and a throw-in from class A. if the cards sent another top pitching prospect to Oakland for another injury-prone veteran pitcher approaching free agency, how would it go over?

the trade was made by the Cubs and not pursued by the Cardinals more, but I wouldn;t have been upset if we would have swung that trade, either. And I agree that it was probably a good move for the Cubs, but I just don’t trust doing business with Billy Beane.

If he is selling low on a guy, it’s for a reason.

I’ve had my fill of trading with Billy Beane, and the LAST thing I’m interested in is another starting pitcher who’s going to be sitting on my DL in the near future.

I can’t support w/numbers, but I think the Cubs gave up a lot. Should the Cards falter this summer, I’ll bite my lip, remembering that we committed to this movement last winter.

His ERA against Mil, Bos, NYM and PHI is right around 3…and he hasn’t lost to any of them yet. This is considerably better than what he has done against the bottom dwellers he has faced this year. Suddenly Wainwright is back in Aug 1 or sep 1 and the Cardinals have 3 strong pitchers going into the playoffs (fingers crossed for getting in).

they talked to Mo and any deals the Cards make have to be tempered with the fact/hope that Carpenter and Wainwright will be back pitching for the Cards come Aug. 1st.

Mo said (paraphrasing) that Carp will be in the starting rotation, not the bullpen. His throwing program is designed to create the arm strength needed for a starter.

Just have to wait and see…... don’t know if this info was said to help in any trade talk or what?

Great win last night.

I could SWEAR we already traded a package of pitching prospects and hitting prospects for an Oakland pitcher who was injured and suffering from a drop in velocity. Maybe I’m just dreaming.

On a side note, I’m glad that Mulder guy is finally pitching for us tonight. He’s been our best minor league pitching prospect ever since we lost that Haren kid.

how much of a pitch count mulder will be restricted to this evening, if at all? that is, in the event he pitches well enough to think about such things…

I was discussing with a friend of mine yesterday the pitfalls of picking up an A’s starter for a package of prospects (this before the trade was announced). Still, I hope the front office knows what it is doing in seemingly standing pat.

I believe we determined that the Brewers stand to pick up 4-5 wins with CC starting over who ever else they whould have had pitch. (I believe he is taking over Suppan’s place right now snice Sup hit the DL. But when he gets back im not sure.(

How many wins do we believe that Harden will give the Cubs over Gallagher?

Does Mulder over Boggs match does wins? I’d say yes because Im drinking the strong coolaid right now but…. If not. Is there someone out there who can?

How many wins would Carp or Wainwright pick up pitching in August? I’d say it would only be 1 coming off of the DL.

If we could aquire say…Ian Snell. How many wins could we pick up throwing him in our rotation?

Oh. And I don’t care who it is. Im not making a trade with the As. Screw that noise.

That game was awesome last night. I love the way Hamels pitches. Get the ball. Throw the ball. Some of those strike outs where just unfair to the hitter. Like Duncan’s first AB.

I feel like we stole one. But because we were out played. But because we went in with Pinero matched up against Hamels. Even if Pineiro pitched a good 6 Innings 3 run game we would have lost it. But he stepped up.

The bullpen followed it up nicely. Villione comming in to get the DP. K-mac came in and pitched a great inning. And then franklin got 4 outs for the save. (counting Iz2 misplay as one of the outs.)

Rich Harden has some subtle mechanical, genetic, or conditioning problem (e.g. flying open with his glove combined with showing the ball to CF) that is causing his injury problems and driving up his risk. Combine his injury history with a recent velocity drop, which is often a harbinger of impending shoulder problems, and you have a VERY risky trade.

I have a seat near the front of the “explore a trade for AJ Burnett” bandwagon. Obviously I would not want to give up a lot, but maybe Anderson and lesser prospects could get it done?

1. As we learned with Mulder, Billy Beane knows exactly when to cut bait on a pitcher with health problems. Thus, the Cubs may not have gotten the hurler they think they have. That’s the point of view of Athletics Nation.

2. BCB predicts Bi-Polar Betty gets the ol’ DFA as a result of this trade. Which would really be a shame.

I highly recommend it. Here’s a taste:

Harden is obviously the better pitcher, but we have to account for the difference in durability as well, so let’s add Harden’s theoretical replacement into the equation. The A’s are one of the best organizations in baseball at finding spare parts to put up solid performances in their rotation (their defense and home park don’t hurt), so let’s assume that Amalgamation Of Harden Replacements will make up the 80 inning difference by posting a 5.50 FIP, a tick or two above league wide replacement level.

That brings the combined totals for Harden + Harden Replacements to 180 innings with a 4.25 FIP, compared to the 180 innings we were projecting from Gallagher at a 5.00 FIP. That’s a difference of three-fourths of a run per nine innings, which while significant, adds up to a grand total of about 15 runs over the course of an entire season.

Phillies are rumored to be homing in on Bedard. Jays rumored to be tossing in the towel.

Thoughts?

Looking back at the gameday, Harden was 90-94 the entire game reaching back for 96 touching 97. Fangraphs has him the past 14 days being fine. Myth.

I’ll be rocking my 1982 Powder Blue Cardinals Mulder throwback I got for $100 this winter in honor of Mark’s start.

You better pitch well, Marky, or I’m getting this thing restitched.

Great post, one of the best I have read in recent days. I think I agree with what was said in every way. I felt disapointed last night when the news broke, but at the same time, I think we should stick to the plan.

On the Bryan Anderson front, he is much to valuable to just be trading for a rental. If we could get Burnett, I would try to get him with much lesser prospects. Having Anderson and Molina behind the plate next yera in a platooning situation would be great. It would keep both guys fresh and you could play yadi against teams with speedsters and Bryan when we need some more offense (although Yadi has been no slouch this year) Maybe making Anderson the fulltime catcher for one pitcher and then giving him other random starts would be advantageous. (I think Maddux used to have his own catcher). That would allow him to really conentrate on one guys game calling tendencies, and would allow him to get enough at bats to where he wasn’t getting stale on the bench.

Jeter clutch as Pettitte, Yanks blank Rays

Jetes hit a THIRD INNING DOUBLE. THIRD INNING.

Per Baseball Reference:
Harden’s comps by age:
22 yrs old: Jake Peavy
23 yrs old: Floyd Youmans (former Montreal flame-out)
24 yrs old: ERNIE BROGLIO!!!
25 yrs old: Rick Aguilera.

So Harden’s gone from Peavy Cy Young style guy to Dwight Gooden’s cousin to famed Cubs hurler to MOR closer in the span of 4 years…

As most of you know, I’ve stated previously that I would trade ANY prospect to make the MLB Cardinals better. In this instance, I feel the Cubs made themselves worse yesterday.

Gallagher is really good & a MLB starter right now. Patterson can hit MLB pitching right now.

The Broglio comp is priceless.

Boomer.

Is on Espn. Brewers get CC and that’s all they talk about on Baseball tonight. Then the next day the Cubs get Harden and thats all they talk about on Baseball tonight. Then the next day we get Mulder back on national TV…

Lets hope that everything said on Baseball tonight is as positive as the last two nights. :-)

First off, my opinion is that we need a bullpen guy or a middle infielder with a plus offensive side (and hopefully being no slouch at defense either, since last night’s game showed that we need to turn those DP’s) over another starter. A starter that could easily be hanging out with Matt Clement, etc. at any point in time. There’s no way Beane would have dealt a starter with those numbers without fleecing the Cubs.

Last night’s game was almost like the story of the season, very on the edge of your seat drama-wise, and us proving that we are not quite the overachievers we are portraid as. I mean, we do have the better record over the Phillies, so let’s not just assume we are automatically going to lose there. and it was important for us to win, after losing 2 out of 3 to the Cubs, especially when compounded with the news of the Sabbathia and Harden trades. Let’s not be copycats and automatically assume we need to get another starter until we actually need one.

Now what would be funny is if we somehow traded with the A’s and got Erik Patterson!

I understand that in order to be awared a compenstion pick, the team must first offer the player arbitration which the player then must refuse. However, what happens if said player, for this example let’s call him A.J., opts out of his contract due to declining a player option and is deemed a Type A free agent?

What happens then?

Last night, someone made the comment that Joel Pineiro’s velocity was down. Whether or not it was, I don’t know and that really isn’t the point. It just got me thinking.

We always hear people talk about how Dave gets the pitchers to sacrifice velocity for control and movement. It’s a great idea because if you throw 97 mph and couldn’t find the plate, you aren’t worth your salt. However, how does he get the pitcher’s to do it?

Is it with the grip? Partly it could be. Certainly, you can increase movement by changing the grip but that isn’t really going to effect command of the strikezone. Are you going to throw softer? Possibly.

And that’s where this idea was born. Isn’t it more ‘un-natural’ for a pitcher to restrain their arm than to simply let ‘er fly? When a pitcher throws a curveball, slider, change-up, etc, they still throw ‘relatively’ as hard as they can, they just change their arm motion/grip slightly for the desired effect.

Wouldn’t it put more un-due strain on the ligaments and joints to ‘ease up’ on throwing?

Obviously I don’t think Dave Duncan is trying to hurt our pitchers. He’s obviously trying to increase their effectiveness. But has anyone ever done a study on this topic?

You can count me in the “don’t trust Beane” camp.
Besides, quite honestly I doubt the Cardinals first half perfomance is sustainable even with Harden (or similar pitcher).

”
Waiting might be the Harden part….but tonight we will be “Runnin down a dream”...that Mulder will tell the Phillies that “I won’t back down”. Please Mark don’t have a “Breakdown”...please “Don’t Do me like that” or we might have to send you packing “Into the Great wide open” as a “Refugee”.

I think it is safe to say: I WANT TO BELIEVE!

Schumaker
Ludwick
Pujols
Glaus
Ankiel
Miles
LaRue
Mulder
Izturis

I love ya buddy… but you do not belong in the 6-hole in ANYONE’s lineup.

But the trade talk always gets me giddy every year.

Hope the ground crew does a good job….. unlike the last road trip…. was it Washington that had a pretty inept crew?

He’s a swindler!

TLR is really pushing front office for help now…. not wanting to wait till Aug. for Carp and AW. Strauss will write about it tomorrow morning. Looks like a little riff going.

those trolls from BCB got my diary shut down.

I really do think the Cubs will average ~92 loses from 2010-2014. Where will they get good players from?

and George Sherrill

That would make me happy.