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a tour of the farm

wainwright can start throwing --- that’s bueno. if all goes well, the post-dispatch says, he will advance to "more aggressive workouts" (throwing off a mound, presumably) after the all-star break, ie on or around july 15; still looks like he wouldn’t be game-ready before august 1, and that might be pushing it --- which is the last thing i want wainwright to do. the temptation is surely there; he’s sick of sitting around, the team needs him, and he’s got a competitor’s mentality. there’s a danger that he’ll try to rush back out there prematurely and pitch through gritted teeth, either risking a reinjury or performing at a diminished level. if i sound like a nervous nellie here, it’s because we’ve seen this sort of thing happen before --- rolen in ’05, mulder and izzy in ’06, edmonds last year. they all tried to play through injuries and / or come back from them too quickly, and in every case it ended up setting them --- and, more important, the team --- back.

get well soon, adam --- but above all, get well.

i don’t write about the minor-league system very often anymore; between Future Redbirds and our own red baron, that territory is very well covered. but i do still pay close attention. coming off the open date, this seems like a good day for me to toss out a few disjointed thoughts about the state of the system.

one exercise i like to do is to gauge how many players are currently in the system who seem likely to have a major-league career that lasts for at least 5 years. in my opinion, a 5-year career is a damn successful one. it doesn’t mean you’re an all-star, but it means you’re more than a warm body --- it means you’ve got enough ability to make a contribution. a system that can routinely produce such players is a healthy one, imho --- yeah, you’ve got to produce some stars too, but if you produce enough 5-year big-leaguers i figure you’ll get your share of stars out of that. if we look back 5 years, to 2003, we find the following prospects in the cardinal farm system who either are, or have a chance to become, 5-year big-leaguers:

    triple A
    so taguchi
    dan haren

    double A
    yadi molina
    skip schumaker
    tyler johnson

    high A
    chris duncan

    short-season A
    brendan ryan
    joe mather

    rookie ball
    daric barton

this list omits demoted big-leaguers who looking for a second chance (e.g., rick ankiel or wilson delgado). it also doesn’t count short-term big-leaguers such as bo hart, john gall, etc etc. taguchi’s a special case, of course --- a japanese free-agent signing, not really a farm-system product. this is a pretty short and unimpressive group of players --- right in line w/ the experts’ opinion back then that the cardinal system ranked among the bottom 3 or 4 in the game. only 4 of the guys seem certain to last for five years --- haren, molina, duncan, and barton. schumaker probably will get there, and taguchi is currently in his 5th year if we want to count him as a farm-system "product." but even if we count him, and everybody else on the list reaches 5 years, that is only 9 players --- out of the 150+ who were in the system at the time.

now let’s take a look at the system today. here are the strongest candidates, in my opinion:

    triple A
    colby rasmus
    bryan anderson
    joe mather
    jaime garcia
    clay mortensen
    mitch boggs
    jason motte
    mike parisi

    double A
    john jay
    jess todd
    tyler herron
    fernando salas
    adam ottavino

    high A
    tyler henley
    daryl jones

    low A
    pete kozma
    brett wallace
    nick additon

i’ll just stop there. this is far from a comprehensive list --- undoubtedly i’ve overlooked somebody, and there are other guys who don’t look like big-leaguers at this moment but will put it together. it doesn’t include guys like mark worrell, who appear to me to be no better than fringe big-leaguers; it also doesn’t include the lower levels of the system, which definitely include some important prospects.

of the players listed above, i have to think no fewer than 4 of the memphis players will go on to have decent big-league careers --- rasmus, anderson, plus pick any 2 pitchers. pick any 5 from the players at double A or below --- mine would be todd, henley, kozma, wallace, and jay. that would make 9 guys --- plus whoever emerges from the rookie levels, plus chris perez and kyle mcclellan (who already graduated to the big leagues this year). conservatively speaking, there might be as many as 15 five-year big-leaguers in the system at this moment --- at least twice the likely haul from the system of 2003. i have no idea whether 15 is a good number or not, relative to other organizations; within this organization, it’s a big improvement over the past.

here’s a quick look at a few guys i’m keeping an eye on who are under the radar:

  • tyler henley, whom azruavatar recently called "the most impressive position player thus far from the 07 draft," has been hurt this year and only has about 150 plate appearances. but his line is impressive for a cf in his first full year of pro ball --- .287 / .356 /.481 in a hitter’s park / league. baseball prospectus translates that into a .256 / .313 / .451 major-league line, ie almost league-average. an 8th rounder out of rice, he plays center field and is said to have a football player’s mentality; think lenny dykstra. i hope we get a chance to see him at double A before the summer is out.
  • the only hitter from last year’s draft class who has hit as well as henley is steven hill, taken in the 13th round out of stephen f. austin. he was good enough to handle full-season competition last year, posting an .816 ops at quad cities; his line at springfield this year translates to .270 / .298 / .470. those are decent enough numbers, but less so when you consider that hill is confined mainly to 1b / corner of; he can catch a little, but not enough (apparently) to play the position full-time. he also has a terrible bb/so split --- 3 walks, 31 strikeouts. unless he learns to catch well enough to hold down that position, his fine hitting (he has an overall OPS of almost .900 since joining the organization last year) probably won’t get him to the big leagues.
  • anybody know anything about marc diapoules? he’s noteworthy to me mainly because the kid has advanced to high A ball at only 20 years of age. he had a decent k/bb and good gb ratio at quad cities; was just promoted to plam beach a week or so ago.
  • FR has been keeping an eye on an even more exciting young pitching prospect, richard castillo, who got to high A at the age of 19. he was pitching mostly in relief there; is now back down at low A to stretch out his arm for starting duty. he came out of the cards’ venezuelan development program and is said to throw a wicked curve; the stats look great so far, but the guy is tiny for a ballplayer (165 pounds). definitely worth paying attention to.
  • mark shorey, a 2006 draftee who advanced two levels last year to reach double A at the age of 22, has heated up w/ the weather. since june 1 he’s batting .333 w/ a slugging avg close to .600. on the season he’s at .292 / .352 / .475; sort of the new cory haerther, a decent hitter who needs to add just a little more power to become an interesting player. i’m keeping an eye out to see if he stays hot the rest of this year.
  • last spring jeff luhnow was excited about a 34th-round draftee out of the university of houston named isa garcia. he had torn up rookie ball in ’06, but the kid struggled at palm beach last year and posted a .653 ops. this year he spent the early months either on the dl or at extended spring training; whatever he did, it agreed w/ him, as he has advanced to double A and is showing improved power at the plate. he still lacks discipline --- just 1 walk in his first 84 at-bats at double A --- but with jose martinez struggling this year and kozma moving slowly through the ranks, the middle infield is wide open at the higher levels. garcia’s taking advantage. probably not a big-leaguer, but you never know.
  • a couple of the cards’ brand-new draftees are off to very good professional starts. niko vasquez, the 3d-rounder, is tearing up the appalachian league so far with a .929 ops --- good power, good batting eye, albeit with a large ## of strikeouts. he is only 19 and has a high ceiling. and the cards’ fifth-rounder, jermaine curtis (3d baseman out of ucla), has a .918 ops in his first 15 games at short-season A. both are exciting players w/ tools.
  • the cards’ next-to-last selection in the draft last month, 49th-rounder adam veres, is off to a nice little start --- 1 walk, 18 strikeouts in his first 11 professional innings. but he has yielded 2 homers . . . . .
  • a pair of former first-round pitchers reached double A this year and are taking their licks. tyler herron got promoted to springfield in may and hasn’t fared so well --- strikeout rate is down, gb/fb is down, hr rate is up. left-handed batters are murdering him (.359 average). adam ottavino struggled mightily with his control early in the year --- walked nearly a batter an inning during the first two months. since june 1 he has cut the walks to 3 a game and maintained an era below 4, but he’s got a lot left to prove.
  • even worse news for a strong-armed pitcher out of last year’s draft. brett zawacki, a high-schooler taken in the 12th round, didn’t pitch professionaly last year and has a 7.24 era so far this year at johnson city. the guy chosen right before him, adam reifer, also made his pro debut this spring; he’s pitching out of the bullpen at batavia and has struck out 10 of the first 25 men to face him. one bad inning has ruined his era, but the foundational numbers look ok so far (it’s only been 6 innings . . . )

that’s all; hope you found something of interest in there. i’ll be back w/ a game thread this afternoon.

0 recs  |  Comment 107 comments

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I think you meant “pitcher’s park/league” for Henley [/nitpicking]

I really thought Zawacki was going to fare a lot better than he has. Disappointing start to say the least.

by azruavatar on Jul 8, 2008 9:14 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

eh.

I’m not too worried about Zawacki. We knew he was going to be a long term project. If he hasn’t shown any signs of life by this time next year, then I’ll be a little concerned. Hell, even then, though, he’ll be the same age as if he were a sophomore in college.

Time is definitely on Zawacki’s side.

Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?

by the red baron on Jul 8, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Parisi

Got to give Mike some credit. He sure didn’t fare well with the big club but he didn’t go back down and pout, he’s been outstanding the last few weeks.

Anyone have insight as to why? Pitching differently? Just mental? Either way, good for him to keep in the mix.

by paposse on Jul 8, 2008 9:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Rookie?

Hopefully he has an ideal on what he needs to work on to be effective in the Majors.

by Evilfrog on Jul 8, 2008 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anthony Reyes syndrome

beat up AAA competition, but lose it in the big leagues.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 8, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Reyes didn't develop that until after a few starts

I seem to remember him faring well his first few callups, including that 1-hitter against the Chisox

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 8, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Parisi doesn't particularly excite me

This years performance in AAA is a career best in terms of keeping hitters off the basepaths. The previous couple years, at the AA and AAA level, he’s had whips over 1.50. That’s something of a red flag to me.

Some people have long said he has a couple big league offerings, and many times those people have a lot more informed opinion than I do. Most of my opinion is based off looking up baseball ref & baseball cube, I admit. So I accept that I can be wrong, and I hope I am, but I personally don’t see where he projects as anything other than a fringe guy at this point.

by Merry CRasmus on Jul 8, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not another pitcher named "Veres"

I just couldn’t take it . . .

by tdawg on Jul 8, 2008 9:35 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Posts like this

Are needed after a series like the Cubs. Just cheers me right up. Now, back to work….

by Evilfrog on Jul 8, 2008 10:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's even nicer

when you look at the Cubs prospects, and they have maybe 5 guys who project to have 5 year major league careers and only one who, in my opinion , has the potential to be an all star (Josh Vitters)

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 8, 2008 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Something I notice

on the list is a relative lack of Latin American players. Garcia and Salas are from Mexico, and Castillo from the Venezuela program, but that’s it, right? Still some pretty significant work to do in this area, looks like.

by Dr Tom More on Jul 8, 2008 10:10 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

This year...

Was our biggest year ever for international signings, as far as bonuses go, so Luhnow is on it. I knew Castillo was a bit undersized, but 165 lbs, wow. How do you say “Seabiscuit” in Spanish?

by mikedallas45 on Jul 8, 2008 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

but in all fairness

How many of us were skinny at 19? The weight seems to pile on after you get out of your teens.
Eat Richard, eat!

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 8, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think I put on about twenty pounds in my age 19 year

The ladies have found me less and less attractive since those days…

(weeps uncontrollably)

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 8, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How tall is he?

I think that needs to be taken into consideration along with his weight.

by saladdays on Jul 8, 2008 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Funny you should bring this up

Goold did a post on it yesterday, which I highly recommend. It seems business is picking up for the Cardinals in South America. The intro…

Calling it one of the surest signs of their now-established footing in Latin America, the Cardinals will announce three signings Friday that surpass any of the previous bonuses given to international players.

by bgh on Jul 8, 2008 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

not to toot my own horn

but “toot”. Luhnow was kind enough to share scouting reports of the 6 players taken. Two were signed for upwards of 500K, and the 3B was for over $1.2M. I think the previous bonus record by the Cards was Ryde Rodriguez at $460 K

Amaury translates into "Punisher of Spheroids" in the lost tongue of Atlantis. Marti means "Belgian Waffle."

by erik on Jul 8, 2008 10:27 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I heard on a broadcast that it was over $3 million

for all 6 players which is a pretty sizable chunk of change.

by azruavatar on Jul 8, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are the Card setting up base in Japan/China?

That’s the next frontier in terms of getting players…... If you are behind in Latin America you are way behind the times, I hope STL is forward thinking and sets up some shop in Japan and China….

by ICbirdfan on Jul 8, 2008 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know if there's a boatload of talent in China as in Japan

When thinking of the far east, I usually think of Japan, Taiwan, and Korea (in that order) in terms of baseball talent

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 8, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

just the potential in China though

is mind-boggling. The population is around 1.5 biliion. Just doing the math makes you think there is one hell of a talent base to build on.
Get a baseball academy up already over there will ya

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 8, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's the thing

I’m not sure if they’re raised to play baseball as in Japan and Taiwan, or most Latin American countries for that matter. It’s really not our problem, but theirs, at the moment.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 8, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know what you are saying

I just think having an academy(or 10) over there where they could learn would be a huge step forward. Wishful thinking on my part probably.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 8, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

smart teams will do it in China.........others will lag an miss out

Just like in Latin America the teams that have the deepest roots win.

by ICbirdfan on Jul 8, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

good

thanks for the news and the link to Goold

by Dr Tom More on Jul 8, 2008 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They've made big changes the last 2 years

Made quite a few big money/name signings (especially this year), but you gotta realize, these kids are 16 when they are signed. You won’t see them hit the Pro Ball circuit til they are 18.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 8, 2008 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

for fun, maybe a future FR post, but here are your 2012 Cardinals

just off the cuff…fat chance this proves true in 2012, but what they hey.

C-Yadier Molina
1B-Albert Pujols
2B-Nico Vasquez
3B-Brett Wallace (I’m probably too hopeful he’s stick @ 3B)
SS-Pete Kozma
LF-Joe Mather or Jon Jay
CF-Colby Rasmus
RF-Daryl Jones

SP-Adam Wainwright
SP-Jaime Garcia
SP-Clayton Mortensen
SP-Lance Lynn
SP-Tyler Herron

CL-Chris Perez
SU-Jess Todd
MR-Mitchell Boggs
MR-Adam Ottavino

Amaury translates into "Punisher of Spheroids" in the lost tongue of Atlantis. Marti means "Belgian Waffle."

by erik on Jul 8, 2008 10:25 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

like is said, off the cuff

K-Mac fits in there…maybe even as a starter

Amaury translates into "Punisher of Spheroids" in the lost tongue of Atlantis. Marti means "Belgian Waffle."

by erik on Jul 8, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wallace

Probably wishful thinking on my part as well, but I saw Wallace play on the Fourth and thought that he looked pretty comfortable and confident at third base.

Even after seeing his picture plus reading all the comments about Wallace needing to lose some baby fat, I did not appreciate what a big guy he is until I got a close look at him. He really is a big fella. Needs to replace a lot of that fat with muscle and I’ll be more confident.

One other thing: the River Bandits are growing a patch of corn out in left field so that they can announce the players who will then enter through the corn. “Is this heaven?” “No, its Iowa.” I thought that was hilarious.

"It breaks your heart. It is designed to break your heart. The game begins in the spring when everything else begins again, and it blossoms in the summer, filling the afternoons and evenings, and then as soon as the chill rains come, it stops and leaves you to face the fall alone." A. Bartlett Giamatti

by ChiTown CardFan on Jul 8, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

what's great about your list there,

is that the only ones eating up a lot of salary would be Pujols, Yadi and Wainwright for sure, possibly Rasmus and Perez…most of those other guys would be under the teams control for some time.

by tbell61 on Jul 8, 2008 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And...

that means that the team will never look like that because if you have low-cost players in lots of places, that allows you to go and splurge on some big $$$ guys. Cost controlled is nice, but not for its own sake. Take 3-4 of those players off that team and replace them with some choice big $$ guys who can produce (one of which will be Pujols, of course) and now you’re talking.

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Jul 8, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Erik - Why Todd as a set up man?

I know that’s what he was perceived as when drafted, but I think you have to start giving him the benefit of the doubt as being a capable starter, atleast until he stops dominating the competition.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 8, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the benefit of the doubt based on like 80 innings

shouldn’t that go the other way around. Trey Hearne was dominant for an entire year before falling off the map. I’m a todd fan but expectations seem to be getting ahead of the scouting report as of late, imo.

by azruavatar on Jul 8, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

but hearne dominated against low A hitters

todd is putting up the ###s against much faster competition, in a hitter’s park / league. also, we learned fairly early on that hearne didn’t really have big-league stuff; todd at least is thought to have a couple of big-league pitches.

could be that expectations are getting out of hand, but i wouldn’t compare this guy to hearne.

by lboros on Jul 8, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

I’m just unsure of what to make in this significant diversion from pre to post draft evaluations. We hear all the time about pitchers developing new pitches - in Todd’s case, the cut fastball - and it turns out to be bogus and a simple data blip. He was awesome in Batavia last year but I’m not sure he faced the same team twice at Palm Beach (not to mention they had that piggyback system). His K rate is down although still good at AA but FIP is a 3.83.

Again, I think he’s a good prospect but I also think there’s a legit reason to believe he may end up in the pen. I wish they’d promote him to Memphis so I could download some video of him.

by azruavatar on Jul 8, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I could try to tape and upload a game he starts

A local TV station broadcasts some of the games every year for Springfield. Not sure what they’re schedule is compared to Todd’s turn in the rotation, but I can try check if you want.

by saladdays on Jul 8, 2008 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In my opinion...

Until he proves he’s not a capable starter, he should be given the benefit of the doubt as being one. It’s not as though he was drafted as a reliever and then turned into a starter. He was a starter in college, he’s a starter in the minor leagues, and it’s completely reasonable to expect him to be a starter in the major leagues as long as he proves he can dominate the competition along each stop.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 8, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So we should assume Mark Worrell is a capable starter

until he proves otherwise? That’s why teams have scouts; they go and watch and say, “I think this player fits this role.” There’s a real reason to believe he ends up in the pen.

Jess Todd started 10 games for Arkansas and relieved in 13 so it’s not like he’s always been a starter. He was actually behind Nick Schmidt (so glad we didn’t draft him) and another pitcher in college starts for 2007 on his team. It’s a distortion of the numbers to make it sound like he never relieved a game in his life.

by azruavatar on Jul 8, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No big reason

I am one who thinks Todd can make it as a starter, but not everyone does. He’s a little undersized and has some effort to his delivery. I think as a set up man he could also prove to be very good with his slider. I am actually a pretty huge Todd fan, his feel for pitching surpasses his actual stuff, but his stuff ain’t at all shabby either.

Amaury translates into "Punisher of Spheroids" in the lost tongue of Atlantis. Marti means "Belgian Waffle."

by erik on Jul 8, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I know this is just a stab in the dark

And I know Jocketty isn’t our GM anymore, but I highly doubt our entire 2012 roster will be home-grown.

Still, a fun excercise, and if all our guys pan out, that could be a pretty sick lineup :D

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 8, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Carp Update

I’m not sure if anyone posted this yesterday, but it seems that there is reason for cautious optimism for Carp as well as Wainwright. The P-D reports in its update on Clement, Wainwright and Carpenter:

At the same time the Cardinals had two pitchers clear hurdles, Chris Carpenter continued his progress. Carpenter threw a 60-pitch simulated game in Jupiter, Fla. Mozeliak called the reports of Carpenter’s simulated game “glowing.” As with all of the righthander’s throws since Tommy John surgery ended his 2007 season, the day after such games tells as much about his recovery as the performance in simulated games.

Carpenter’s schedule has him set for a few more simulated games although starting a rehab assignment by the end of July is a possibility.

by bgh on Jul 8, 2008 10:25 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dennis Dove

I haven’t heard anything about Dennis Dove in a while. He’s the hard-throwing righthanded reliever who was very impressive in spring training 2007, was with the team briefly last year, and I believe he got hurt. He’s not a youngster, probably 26 or 27, but I wonder if anyone has any idea what his injury was and whether we might see him pitching again in 2009.

by Youneverknow on Jul 8, 2008 10:27 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

MiLB player search

still shows Dennis Dove as a Memphis Redbird but he is not on the roster. I believe Dove suffered a pretty serious arm injury and was released. Seems like i remember that and was disappointed hearing it. I was also surprised that Mike Silman is on Memphis roster but DL. I had hopes for him also a couple years back.

by ridgesee on Jul 8, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

released

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 8, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

to quote JL21: “Surgery, came to camp throwing puss, was released. I believe.”

by TheoSqua on Jul 8, 2008 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Richard Castillo

Castillo is only 18, he doesn’t turn 19 until October.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 8, 2008 11:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Only "bad" thing about listing out.....

possible contributers, is that in 2003, you listed those that were known contributers 5 years later. When listing for 2008, you are listing those “thought” to be contributers. I bet the 2003 list was much larger in 2003.

That said, I do feel better about our farm system now, then at any time in recent memory. The depth is there, and there is quite of bit of role-player talent. Still be nice to have another Rasmus type bat, or a legit 1-2 type SP, that I’m not sure we have.

by SoonerfanTU on Jul 8, 2008 12:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good point

Jimmy Jounell, anyone?

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Jul 8, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A good survey

of the system and an interesting comparison with what we had in 2003. I agree that things are much improved but hindsight is always clearer than foresight; back in 2003 we were persuading ourselves that some of the players we now know to have been busts had the potential to be established major leaguers, and some of our present enthusiasms will certainly prove ephemeral as well. I think you considerably overrate the prospects for Parisi, for example. I share with you an interest in learning more about Shorey, whom Future Redbirds continues pretty much to ignore. Keep an eye also on the fast-rising Andrew Brown, who may be this year’s Shorey. For those looking for Latin American prospects, two Palm Beach players, the closer Samuel(21), and the shortstop, Solano(20), are both young and talented, while the Batavia centerfielder, Parejo, just turned 18 on July 5 and doesn’t look to be overmatched in a league consisting mostly of players with extensive college experience.

by Mike G on Jul 8, 2008 12:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Solano

might be the real sleeper

by ridgesee on Jul 8, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Solano

He has a slick glove and a pretty good eye, but no power to speak of.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 8, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

you're right Mike G ---- hindsight is clearer

but it works both ways. back in 2003, not many people viewed Chris Duncan, Skip Schumaker, Brendan Ryan, or even So Taguchi as guys with much chance to have a long big-league career, whereas they were excited about Blake Hawksworth and Reid Gorecki. for every highly touted prospect who goes bust, there is a sleeper who surprises you - i think it more or less evens out. that was true in 2003, and it probably will be true in 2008 as well

by lboros on Jul 8, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wasn't Pujols

the ultimate sleeper?

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 8, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who is Pujols?

Sounds like some career minor league player :P

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 8, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I heard he can hit the ball a long way,

but he has a lot of problems with plate discipline and general lack of athleticism

"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."

by BigMOman on Jul 8, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Subdued

Not in line with the current topic whatsoever, but it seams there is a marked reduction in the general enthusiasim around here since the cubbie series. Kind of a “we knew it wouldn’t work this year anyway, so let’s take what we can from it” sentiment. What with that series, the addition of BigCC to the BC, the weird all-star selection, the predicable drone of the season has started thumping against those tiny speed bumps that keep you from running into the oncoming lane late at night. I don’t disagree with that direction of thought, the rotation seemed tenuous from the get go and the offense isn’t a sreamlined thing. Nevertheless, if the premise that this is a team that, despite its lack of pedigree, will continue to achieve what it has because it really is a ‘team’ is true, there’s no need to despair just yet. That’s what I’m really wondering – I think that’s what a lot of us are wondering – is this a group, that because it is a team, will continue to defy expectations. And if it is, as they have shown thus far, what emotions are we in store for?

Other mysteries remain. TL

by BKKCard on Jul 8, 2008 12:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Part of it (I speak only for myself) is that we're getting

into trading time, and as always I have hopes for bold and creative trades from the Cardinals, constantly at war with the knowledge that I probably will be disappointed once again.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 8, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Less so this year

I have fewer complaints this year. Even though we have not had a trade, we have had plenty of call ups. And it’s been exciting to see some young ‘ems up here. Mo did get Lohse before the season. TLR yanked Izzy off (hopefully his fixed). TLR’s constant experimenting has made it actually quite fun. For some reason, 2006 and 2007 were more painful memories. 2006 was salvaged, but I still recall the pain of inaction on a wide range of issues. And 2007 is mostly repressed into the deepest recesses of my memory.

So I agree with MdRedbirdFreak that I will be disappointed to some extent. But to me it’s a trade off. A bad trade is also very painful.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Jul 8, 2008 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I feel like I did in spring training again

I still think this team can make a go at the postseason, despite the central being so good. there’s still an entire half a season to play, so we could theoretically continue in this slight slump, and then make a run at the end when we get a hopefully effective Wainwright back, and I think it’s anyone’s guess how Welley will pan out. gotta get back to work…

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 8, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

All Star Game HR Derby

So far the NL has Utley, Uggla and Berkman…. not exactly big names but they are having great seasons.

I’m hoping Albert and Ryan sit it out….. Albert for his elbow and Ryan so it doesn’t mess up his swing….. something I think happened to Edmonds a few years back.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 8, 2008 1:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Howard swings for the fences every PA

How could the derby screw up that swing?

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 8, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No

I’m pretty sure he’s referring to Brendan Ryan

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 8, 2008 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mr Redbird

You make me smile!

I should have thought of BR, but it's been so long since I've seen him hit a ball into the shallow outfield, I've forgotten he existed.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 8, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ank

Would be interesting to see how Rick would do. I’ve never seen his batting practice, does he go yard as often as possible?

by paposse on Jul 8, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he does hit a lot out

in batting practice from what I’ve heard

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 8, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

not exactly big names?

I wish we had a couple of those not so big name players then

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 8, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

As would I

but put those names on a commercial for the HR Derby and how many people say “Who?”

We know who they are, but the network needs a “name”. With all the Cubs on the roster….. who has the name? Ramirez? I don’t think so…. Holliday of the Rockies?... not enough draw from a big market…. Chipper? he’s hurt more than Albert, ain’t he?

My fear is pressure will be put on Albert to participate to give a name people know and will watch.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 8, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For my money...

I hope that Holliday participates. (Unless Braun wants to join in and do a second-half Abreu impersonation.)

by RockyMtnRedbird on Jul 8, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Seems like it helped Albert regain his HR stroke last year

Or am I misremembering?

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 8, 2008 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

it’s a tough situation, since I’d really like to see him participate, but I’d hate to put extra wear and tear on the elbow. but yeah, I seem to remember that it helped him

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 8, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly

The elbow worries me the least. He’s been playing with a “bum” elbow for several seasons and it’s never cost him time on the DL. It’s always his legs or back. So I’d be more worried about him overswinging and throwing out his back or something like that. I’m all about him participating in the HR derby

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 8, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not too worried

I have confidence that Albert won’t play unless he knows he can do it.

by saladdays on Jul 8, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's like, batting practice, dude...

except that this time it counts..

"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN

by SleepyCA on Jul 11, 2008 3:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

16 HR's before the ASG

16 after = 32 total…... didn’t hurt, didn’t help. He had streaks of games…... he was homerless three weeks before the ASG and then had like 5 or 6 in a few games after the ASG, but then went homerless for a while…... who can say it helped or hurt.

I don’t remember his elbow being the problem last year.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 8, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

didnt APu say

at the end of the year that his elbow was hurting him so bad he couldn’t straighten it out and if he had to go through that much pain again he wouldn’t do it, he would have the surgery?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 8, 2008 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

threw up a bit

Lineup for tonight

Kennedy
Ludwick
Pujols
Ankiel
Molina
Duncan
Pineiro
Izturis

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 8, 2008 3:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

glaus?

"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy

by FutureMan on Jul 8, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, I guess

But I didn’t hear his name….. guess he would be after Pujols.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 8, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep, sadly the Cards have questions all over the place

Can they start hitting? Can they start hitting with RISP?

Starting pitching give QS? Can the bullpen hold any ties/leads?

Quetsions, questions, questions…..... no real answers.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 8, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hear ya

We better hope the offense wakes up because Philly will be scoring plenty of runs. I’m going to be negative here..but I wouldn’t be suprised to see us get swept…especially if we score only 1-2 runs per game.

by KYCards on Jul 8, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

at least their pitching

ain’t what the cubs is

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 8, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well, except for tonight with Hamels

that guy got the all-star snub

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 8, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So much for platooning

Are we to infer that lefthanders do better against Hamels?

by Mike G on Jul 8, 2008 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

pretty even for his career

and slightly in favor of lefties this year.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jul 8, 2008 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Help

Where can I find up-to-date defensive metrics for teams? for free?

by bgh on Jul 8, 2008 3:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Clearly

I didn’t scroll down far enough. Thank you for pointing out my oversight.

by bgh on Jul 8, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One other player I really like

is David Kopp. He’s been hurt most of the season but is supposedly coming back soon. He has a plus fastball with crazy sink, a plus SL and an average change. Not to mention picture perfect mechanics. Another favorite of mine who I’d categorize as a sleeper is 1B Francisco Rivera. He has more walks than K’s and is hitting .303/.371/.417 for the Quad Cities. I know that ISO isn’t much to behold, but he’s only 19 and according to Bryan Smith he has some big time 5 o’clock power that hopefully will translate to games soon.

Amaury translates into "Punisher of Spheroids" in the lost tongue of Atlantis. Marti means "Belgian Waffle."

by erik on Jul 8, 2008 4:32 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

cool

now I have to guys to watch for in the QC… can’t wait for that game! I should be able to take some pics of Wallace and Rivera, hopefully putting the kibosh on the baseball

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 8, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

erik, if'n i recall correctly

either bryan smith or kevin goldstein pointed out that hitting .300 in the midwest league as a teenager is a leading indicator — ie, historically, guys who hit .300 in that league as teenagers tend to succeed at the higher levels. both bryan anderson and colby rasmus pulled that off if i recall . . . .

by lboros on Jul 8, 2008 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Question for you, Erik

What are you thoughts on Jon Edwards? You mention that Rivera may have some power potential that will shine through later. This is a big reason that I am so bullish on Edwards. He’s putting up ISO’s in the range of .200 in his teens. It’s very possible that tool could show further improvement given his young age. He happens to be one that I like as much as about any, in terms of potential. I know he’s not yet risen above low A and that he has issues making contact, so he’s no sure thing. But when looking at high schoolers, I look more at the ceiling than the floor, so Edwards is someone I naturally take an interest in. Would like to know what your thoughts are on him.

by Merry CRasmus on Jul 8, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

More to the point with the question...

At what point would you guess the organization might move Edwards up to QC? Would it surprise you if that move were made in the near future (w/i the next month)?

by Merry CRasmus on Jul 8, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

honestly

I’m not sure what to make of him. I like him for the same reasons you do—TTO player, big hulk of a kid. I do find the fact that he hasn’t risen about Batavia telling on what the org thinks of him. I wish I could tell you more, Jeff Albert is now their batting coach and is someone I used to ask questions to about prospects, I’m trying to get him for a Q and A and I will definitely ask him about Jon Edwards.

Amaury translates into "Punisher of Spheroids" in the lost tongue of Atlantis. Marti means "Belgian Waffle."

by erik on Jul 8, 2008 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, Erik

Definitely looking forward to hearing what the org thinks about him.

by Merry CRasmus on Jul 8, 2008 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For what it's worth

Carp is reporting he feels great today after yesterday’s throwing session.

TLR appears to be having a team meeting. Trying to get team focus is the guess why.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 8, 2008 4:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

should be very interesting

down the stretch

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 8, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

interesting articles on Sporting News archives

I swear a link was posted ealier today but I can’t find it.

Man I’d love to browse this stuff.

This excerpt is from Birdland, and there’s a full article at http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/sports/othersports/story/2534301a1e8e95fe86257480001240f8?OpenDocument

—-—--
It was a bittersweet tour I took last Thursday at Sporting News’ emptying office out in Chesterfield. Boxed and stacked and ready to move was thousands and thousands of pieces of baseball history. (Wrote about the vast treasure of baseball history that is leaving town in today’s paper.) Some of the things from the collection that I didn’t include in the story:

  • Musial, on his questionnaire, wrote his hobbies were "movies — played basketball."
  • Mantle, on his questionnaire from the early 1950s, wrote that his eye color was "grey" and his name is pronounced "Mantle" and, under the question about his most outstanding performance in baseball, Mantle wrote: "Hitting 2 HR’s – a triple a double & single in one game while at Kansas City – again Toledo."
  • If you wanted a Middle Tennessee State football media guide from the 1980s, this was the place to find it.
  • Also, a special media guide labeled: "1974 Hank Aaron Guide."
  • Cobb wrote many of his letters in green ink. You play psychologist.
  • Before this Internet fad stormed into sports reporting, Sporting News subscribed to 100 daily newspapers and editors were instructed during their free time to clip articles. Those articles were collected and organized according to player or subject. There are thousands of pouches containing the clippings of a life’s work — not just the player’s but also the reporters and editors and assistants who carefully scissored their way around the copy to preserve the information for someone, somewhere in the future.
  • There are also hundreds of boxes of cards, like a library’s card file. On each card is a player’s name, birthday, hometown and his transaction history. The Sporting News had one of these for every person who played pro ball. Somebody once called archivist Steve Gietschier to find out information about his father, who played minor-league ball but wouldn’t talk about it. Gietschier found a few cards for players who shared a name, so he started reading the addresses of each player. "That," the son said, "is the house I’m calling from."

The first time I learned about the archives was in college, when an editor at Sporting News pulled me aside and said: "I’ve got to show you something." He opened up a box of files and pulled out that Mantle questionnaire. It was like somebody allowing you a peek at the recipe for Coca-Cola. There was Mantle’s handwriting, Mantle’s answers. I never forgot seeing that, and got to see it again Thursday.

The archives will be missed around here, but the plan is to put it to good use out east. The worry for people who worked around the archives is that it will be more of a collection than a resource.

by sdrone on Jul 8, 2008 5:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Great stuff by Goold, as usual

I really think he’s as good a writer as we have in this market. I like how he is able to find these type of stories that are just outside the mainstream consciousness, yet interesting and informative.

Also, his spring training stories are always top notch, as is his coverage of Cardinal farmhands.

by Merry CRasmus on Jul 8, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1 on Goold

Those archives are an amazing treasure/resource. Too bad it is leaving the Lou. Hopefully it will be used, but carefully preserved. Little paper pieces of history are oh so fragile.

by cardsgirl95 on Jul 8, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN

by SleepyCA on Jul 11, 2008 3:35 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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