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swings, hits, misses

the first two games of the series were essentially ties --- two very well-pitched starts for each side, a poor relief outing by each team’s ace, and a win apiece. justice reigned. the cubs won the tie-breaker handily and earned the series win, which in itself is no cause for great concern; long way to go. but the ragged start by wellemeyer? concerning. i’ll grant that he pitched better than the linescore suggests --- he only yielded one extra-base hit, and that one occurred only because ankiel misplayed the ball; several of the 8 singles the cubs piled up against wellemeyer were dinks and dumps. also to the good, he got the cubs to swing and miss 9 times yesterday, his best total since the elbow started to bother him. so it’s possible to spot glimmers of hope in yesterday’s performance --- but they’d only be glimmers. wellemeyer has yet to go more than 5 innings since his troubles began, and he’s yielding contact at far greater rates than he did previously.

the numbers bear that out. pre-elbow ache, wellemeyer had twice as many swinging strikes (133) as hits allowed (65) --- quite a measure of dominance. if a batter swung, he was twice as likely to miss altogether as he was to do anything positive with the pitch. to place that into context, three of the cards’ starting pitchers (lohse, pineiro, and looper) have 1:1 ratios of swing/misses to hits this season, and their best pitcher (wainwright) has a ratio of 1.6 swing/misses per base hit. wellemeyer was considerably more dominant than that for two months. indeed, he was nearly as stingy of contact as nl strikeout leaders tim lincecum and cole hamels, who both induce 2.2 swing/misses per hit; just as stingy as dan haren (2.0); and more so than brandon webb (1.9), ben sheets (1.6), johan santana (1.8), and zambrano (1.3).

for two months he was as hard to make contact with as almost any pitcher in the league. but in his last 3 starts --- ie, not counting the 6/13 debacle against philadelphia, when he clearly was not sound --- the colonel has given up 25 base hits against 22 swinging strikes, a 1:1 ratio. so while it may be argued that yesterday’s performance was mildly encouraging, he clearly has quite a ways to go to get back to where he was. yeah it’s a small sample size, but these numbers jibe with what we’re all seeing with our eyes: the colonel can’t throw it past people the way he did early in the season. insofar as he already has thrown 20 innings more than he did last year (when he set his personal high in innings pitched at the big-league level), it shouldn’t surprise anybody that welley’s hitting a wall. looper, another converted reliever, came down with a throbbing elbow last year at almost the same point in the season. loop ended up on the dl (as welley probably should have), and when he returned he struggled --- 6-6 with a 5.18 era for the rest of the year. if wellemeyer pitches like that from here on out. . . . . no need to complete the thought.

let’s talk instead about the brewers’ big trade. it’s the type of trade walt jocketty used to make back in the day, packaging up prospects for superstar rentals. that’s how he got mcgwire, rolen, edmonds, kile, larry walker --- eventually he overplayed the hand, but for a while that approach served the organization very well. the difference for the brewers is that they probably won’t (as walt used to do) be able to make a serious play at retaining their catch beyond this year: it’s all or nothing in 2008. i can’t say i fault them. just as there are times when it makes sense for a hitter to swing at the first pitch in an at-bat, there are moments in a franchise’s development when aggressiveness is a greater virtue than patience. you’re looking for a certain pitch, and it comes down the pipe --- there’s no point in extending the at-bat any further. take a full rip and hope for the best. that’s just what the brewers are doing --- and it might be the correct percentage play, even though 6 years of matt laporta will almost surely prove to be worth more than 2 months of cc sabathia. the more pertinent question is this: are the brewers more likely to win a championship with sabathia this year, or with la porta at some point in the next 6 years? that’s a judgment call, and a highly speculative one, but given the likely departure of ben sheets after this season you can’t blame doug melvin for thinking his present with cc looks brighter than his future with la porta. he obviously thinks he can make a deep run this year. if he’s right, then it’s a good trade imho even if la porta becomes an all-star.

what does it mean for the cardinals? let’s not kid ourselves --- it’s a major blow to their postseason hopes. milwaukee had a .500 record as of may 31; since then they have gone 21-11, the best record in the national league, and they’ve added a huge new weapon to their arsenal. but the cards’ 17-16 record over that span is the 3d-best in the league, and it was forged largely without wainwright, wellemeyer, and pujols; albert’s playing again, and (cross fingers) maybe welley can regain at least some of his former effectiveness. wainwright is still expected to make 8 to 10 starts before the end of the season. nothing else the cards can do but keep scrapping and try to keep their chances alive; they still have 72 games on the schedule, and they will show up for them and try to win them. their job is to stay within shouting distance, hoping that as they get healthier they’re still close enough to make a run.

should mozeliak counter melvin with a trade of his own to bolster the rotation? he certainly shouldn’t, and can’t afford to, trade away top prospects as milwaukee just did, but he might have to find innings somewhere --- especially if carpenter is ticketed for the bullpen upon his return. because what are the other options? we’ll find out soon enough if mulder can contribute; seems pretty unlikely to me, but the cards want to eliminate that possibility before they look elsewhere. if he doesn’t work out? well, let’s see: anthony reyes has worn out his welcome (what little he had to begin with), matt clement’s arm doesn’t work, and brad thompson lacks the talent. i think the cards would be best served not to look to the minors --- none of their top rotation prospects (boggs, garcia, todd, and mortensen) has made more than a dozen starts at triple A, and none is really prepared for big-league competition at the moment. it doesn’t serve the players' long-term interests, nor the organization’s, to throw them into situations they’re not ready to handle; if the cards are truly committed to the future, they should let those guys develop naturally rather than forcing them to the majors prematurely.

should they trade one of ’em for a veteran rent-a-pitcher? i’d hate to see them deal garcia or todd, but i could live with a trade involving one of the other two. i think the cards have sufficient long-term mound depth that they won’t miss either boggs or mortensen. they already have wainwright and carpenter under control for the next three to four years, plus pineiro for next season and welley for at least another two. beyond those guys, they have five viable internal rotation candidates who are almost ready: garcia, todd, mcclellan, boggs, and mortensen. six, if you count mike parisi (and i still think he could be a 5th-starter type). they don’t have room on the big-league roster for all of those guys; maybe it makes sense to cash in some value now, rather than let it die on the vine. of course, it might make more sense to wait another year, let some things settle out, and cash in at that point --- save the prospects and hope that some other, better trade opportunity presents itself down the line. if you made that case, i wouldn’t argue with you. but that likely means the cards’ promising start to 2008 goes for naught. if the cards don’t make a move to shore up that rotation, it very well might be in tatters a month from now.

i can see both sides of the argument; if the cards choose to let this season slip away and conserve their resources for next year, that is a defensible decision. maybe it is the best and wisest decision. i won't complain if that's how it plays out. but we should be realistic about the probable consequences of inaction.

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Welley

I was at the game yesterday and from what I could tell his slider does not look as effective as pre-elbow soreness. It has just a little bit of loop in it and not the hard boring thing that he usually throws. Lets hope that this is just a mental thing—that he is just a little tentative to let it rip.

by BigJawnMize on Jul 7, 2008 10:01 AM EDT   0 recs

Seems to me

The question of trading to bolster the rotation is more than one of whether the organization should be willing to part ways with some young talent. The question is, are there any players worth trading for? With CC gone, what is left? Bedard maybe along with AJ Burnett or Rich Harden, though in all three cases the Cards would be adding sore-armed pitchers who have struggled this season to an already long list of sore-armed pitchers (Wainwright, Carp, Mulder, Clement, Welly). If there is no one out there who can offer the Cards the same type of boost as someone like CC, a real ace caliber pitcher, and all the options are just as injury prone or as ineffective as those already on the roster, then it is best to keep the prospects and solider on with the current group.

by JMedwick on Jul 7, 2008 10:04 AM EDT   0 recs

I wouldn't say Harden...

has struggled this season…92K’s in 77 innings, 5-1 2.34 ERA. He has struggled to stay healthy (once again) if that’s what you meant.

by cardzfanbub on Jul 7, 2008 10:16 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

There's always more left...

there have been rumors that Matt Cain and Zack Greinke could be had for the right price even. There are upgrades out there, it just depends on how much we’re willing to give up.

by rockin the red on Jul 7, 2008 10:56 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I hear that the Giants are looking for a lefty first baseman...

"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."

by BigMOman on Jul 7, 2008 10:58 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

oh goody

Duncan for Vizquel. The Omar idea has already been hooted down in one of the fanposts, but I still like it. I would especially love to see B. Ryan learn the SS trade from OV for a few months

by the Tewk on Jul 7, 2008 4:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree about not making any drastic moves.....

I just don’t see any moves that the Cardinals could make that would make us one of the top 2-3 teams in baseball this season, without gutting us going forward.

If I were Mo, I’d probably see what the market would bear for Lohse. Yes, I realize we are in no position to trade pitching, but if the haul would be good enough, why not? I’d also get to work on sorting out our glut of OF’s, as well as hopefully sending Reyes somewhere. Only Mo and a few others know what they’d like to do regarding our OF’s. I’m still hopeful that the plan includes moving Duncan and maybe Skip. Or maybe you move one of them and Ludwick/Ankiel. I dunno.

by SoonerfanTU on Jul 7, 2008 10:05 AM EDT   0 recs

but would trading boggs be a drastic move?

in my mind, that’s not drastic. he’s got promise, but he’s hardly irreplaceable.

by lboros on Jul 7, 2008 10:06 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No, not at all.....

But I wouldn’t move him just to move him. I’d think whatever we could get for Boggs, we could probably get for Reyes, or Reyes and something lesser. I like Boggs, and I could see moving him, but I wouldn’t do it just to “get through the season”. Heck, in that case, just let him start for us. He’ll take his lumps, but he’d be working with Duncan every week too.

I dunno. I hate to “throw in the towel”, but I also don’t see us doing much this season, while next year could set up pretty nicely if we’re healthy.

We’ll have Waino back soon, coupled with Lohse, Welly (hopefully be healthy after the break), Looper, and JP. Then we have guys like Mulder, Boggs, Thompson, etc that can start a few games. I really think we’ll be fine. Not fine as in winning anything big, but fine as in having enough capable arms to finish the season.

by SoonerfanTU on Jul 7, 2008 10:18 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

it wouldn't be "just to get through the season"

the idea would be to keep them from falling out of the playoff race before wainwright returns. i’d be against any trade that would improve them from 82 wins to 84; those extra two wins have no marginal value at all. but a trade that would improve them from 89 wins to 91 might get them into the playoffs - and this team has a very realistic chance to win 91 games.

by lboros on Jul 7, 2008 10:22 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'd prefer to see...

what we could get for Reyes before anybody else. He’ll have to be kept on the 40-man this winter and pass through waivers (or stay with the big club) next season in order for us to keep him. I’ve always liked the kid, and I still think he has big league ability…but I don’t think he’s gonna get a chance here and we may end up losing him for nothing.

by cardzfanbub on Jul 7, 2008 10:30 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Nothing

is what we can get for him. He’s been advertised since the beginning of the season. There aren’t even any nibbles. Reyes is at best a throw-in on another deal.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 7, 2008 11:00 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Actually, they could have got something.......

You are aware that Mr. Mozeliak was asking for a top pospect and another piece? My source tells me the Phillies would still like to have him…......not for anything near that-if he’d try a fair trade, he’d could be gone tomorrow….....

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jul 7, 2008 11:05 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Speaking of the Phils...

what does anyone know about Jason Donald? He’s currently playing SS for their AA team in his second full season of pro ball at age 23 sporting a .879 OPS. He put up a combined .868 OPS between low and high A ball last year. Can he stick at Short? What would it take to pry him away (Rollins is blocking him through probably 2011)?

Not interested? How ‘bout Adrien Cardenas? He’s playing 2B at high A ball also in his second full season but at age 20. He’s carrying an .850 OPS after putting up a decent .771 last year. He is also blocked by Utley until 2013.

Obviously Reyes doesn’t get us either of these guys, and really couldn’t be the center-piece, but maybe he could get it started.

by cardzfanbub on Jul 7, 2008 11:36 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I like that idea

let’s send Reyes and Skip (or plug in another outfielder, maybe they’d take Duncy) for one of those guys

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 7, 2008 2:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't think there's anyway...

that would get it done. Dunc would be blocked by Howard, and Reyes and Skip (while I like both) are not much more than AAAA players right now. I’m sure it would require another young starter (at least) the question is would it take one of Todd/Garcia (no way), or Mortenson/Boggs/Parisi? I’d be willing to go Reyes, Skip and one of those three…depending on how good these two really are.

by cardzfanbub on Jul 7, 2008 2:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

heck

I’d even throw in another like Parisi or even Boggs to get either of those guys!

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 7, 2008 2:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Skip is not a 4A player

Have you looked at the numbers he is putting up. Far from a 4a player.

by sstabs on Jul 7, 2008 3:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Until Skip can learn to hit lefties...

(.422 OPS in 72 at bats) he is (should be) only a platoon player. He has hit righties incredibly well this year (.920 OPS in 224 AB’s)...making for a respectable overall OPS of .799. However, a .799 OPS can be found all over the high minors (Stav and Mather could probably outdo that). No, I think Skip is barely more than a AAAA player.

by cardzfanbub on Jul 7, 2008 3:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think that is overstating it

AAAA players don’t succeed at the ML level. Gall, Seabol, Jiminez might all be called AAAA players. OPS in the minors is vastly different from OPS in the majors. You have to be an everyday starter with a very high OPS to be considered more than AAAA player?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 7, 2008 4:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And Skip is not...

“an everyday starter with a very high OPS”. He is a platoon player playing nearly everyday with a decent OPS. I like him a lot, but I don’t see him signing an multi-year deals in the near future.

I didn’t mean to say that a .799 OPS in the minors could replace Skip…what I meant was there are guys all over AA and AAA that could put up an .800 OPS in the big leagues. Mather and Stav are examples of two that probably can.

by cardzfanbub on Jul 7, 2008 4:27 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I got the part about the OPS transition

I just thought it was a bit harsh calling him a AAAA player. I also wasn’t saying he was an everyday starter with a high OPS. Of course we could have said the same thing about Duncan. Time will tell, and I will let it drop.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 7, 2008 5:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

.756

is the league average OPS.

dont you think players capable of putting up a .799 OPS in the majors would be called up if they could actually do that

by Glowsticks on Jul 7, 2008 9:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

In the NL

there are only 48 players with a higher OPS than Skippy (275 ABs minimum)

hot on Skippy’s heels is Ryan Howard….....

by vances law on Jul 7, 2008 11:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

let them develop naturally

Agree with the concept but sometimes extra ordinary measures are called for and the team must look for the path of least resistance (or the one that shall do the least damage to the club’s future assets).

“none of their top rotation prospects (boggs, garcia, todd, and mortensen) - has made more than a dozen starts at triple A”

We know Mulder is going to implode and we’ll need a starter for a month or so after the all-star break until Wainwright is ready. We’re in a race for a playoff spot. Boggs has already started 4 ML games. He is not projected to be a front of the rotation starter. His ceiling is back of the rotation or bullpen. How much damage will it do to the development of Mitchell Boggs to give him another 6 starts in July – August? The alternative is to trade someone like Todd for a rental of middling quality. Let’s stick with the program of developing from within.

by jjray on Jul 7, 2008 10:06 AM EDT   0 recs

agree, jj --- todd for a rental makes no sense

but boggs or mortensen for a rental, i’d be willing to do.

by lboros on Jul 7, 2008 10:07 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree

as long as it’s B and C level guys like Boggs, Reyes and other collectible items for someone like Burnett would be fine.

by Harknights on Jul 7, 2008 10:10 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I always feel like a pessimist

but we might be getting ahead of ourselves with Todd. He’s posted some phenomenal numbers but he’s barely a year removed from the draft and he wasn’t touted as a starter prior to the draft. Kudos to the Cards’ scouts if he works out but I’m a little hesitant to label him as the next big thing—cut fastball or no cut fastball.

by azruavatar on Jul 7, 2008 10:12 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

you're right, could be fool's gold

but i’d hate to trade him before we find out.

by lboros on Jul 7, 2008 10:18 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I just don't understand how you can be so positive

that Mulder will fail miserably upon his return to starting? He’s pitched what 3 times since his return and he’s given up 1 hard hit (the hard grounder up the middle against the Mets). Do I think he’s going to return to the Cy Young caliber Mark Mulder? No. But it’s worth a shot to see if he effectively start a game.

I’m a realisitc as anyone about his “potential”, I understand he’s not the same pitcher he was, but then again I never thought he’d throw above 85 and he’s done much better than that so I’m willing to see him build his arm strenght. And doing so at the MLB level isn’t such a risk since you get to see him against ML hitters and the alternatives aren’t necessarily better.

by Tackle Box on Jul 7, 2008 12:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Mulder

Tackle Box, I’d love for us to see a productive version of Mulder out on the mound … but the odds against are astronomically high IMHO given the two shoulder surgeries and fact that he was very hittable in his rehab starts in the minors. Be very happy to eat my words but any competent GM (and so far I am on the JMo wagon) has to prepare for the eventuality that Mulder implodes in 3 starts or less.

by jjray on Jul 7, 2008 3:34 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

As this weekend clearly exhibited

we need offense. The only problem is, there is no offense to be had at the MIF positions.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 7, 2008 10:09 AM EDT   0 recs

This is the biggest problem

not run prevention, run production. Maybe there’s a 2B out there we haven’t thought of who could be pried away with the right package. Mo should be all ears on this. They need someone good for next year, too. This problem will have to be addressed. Khalil Greene is out there…

by Red in Chicago on Jul 7, 2008 11:02 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Jack Wilson

is reportedly available. Plus, he would not be a rental, he would be through 2009 or 2010. Big upgrade on Izturis or Ryan as far as OPS. I don’t know what the Pirates might want for him though.

by ckeiner on Jul 7, 2008 4:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Reyes

Reyes would actually work in this trade I think

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 7, 2008 7:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I still want this guy...

http://tiny.cc/2XIML

Has now been moved from SS to 2nd base fulltime by the Angels, probably more valuable to them with the infield trades theyve made….he can swat the ball, tho hes been sucking at the plate most recently, both at MiLB and during a short stint in MLB….. probably plays decent defense at 2nd.

Maybe time for me to move on to the next great IF prospect…LOL!

I think Reyes, Brad, and a great backup OF ? might do it. Of course the Angels need power…so Im dreaming…so throw in Duncan or Phelps to DH? They have a lot of power at AAA tho, that can probably DH…dream.

by cardschinmusic on Jul 7, 2008 8:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

trading chips that are not essential to the future

but would the rental we get for boggs or mort actually be better than boggs himself would give us? I’d have to see what the market is for a boggs or mort. I see your point that there is not really that much long term damage to trading boggs or mort because the system is developing RHP bullpen – back of the rotation guys at a furious pace.

by jjray on Jul 7, 2008 10:10 AM EDT   0 recs

I would hope

I rental for Boggs + OF would be better than Boggs.

But I like Boggs and don’t want to trade him. Which is why I guess I’m not a GM.

by Evilfrog on Jul 7, 2008 10:11 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

that depends

it’s pretty clear that boggs still has a learning curve; he isn’t somebody you can count on for 6-7 innings every start. there are gonna be a few times where he singlehandedly loses the game. a decent renta-pitcher is probably worth a game or two more than boggs down the stretch.

i know there are scouts who like boggs, and he has big-league stuff. if you packaged him up w/ reyes or one of the outfielders, and you tossed in some salary relief, you might get somebody who is reliable enough for the short term to keep the cards in the game; then you hope that wainwright comes back strong.

lotta “ifs” involved . . . . .

by lboros on Jul 7, 2008 10:16 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Exactly why the Cards

Should stick with what they have and see whether this overachieving team should be buyers or sellers at the end of July. With the number of medicore players having career years, selling high might make more sense to build the clubs long term talent base and fix some glaring problems, like the black hole that is SS and 2b.

by JMedwick on Jul 7, 2008 10:18 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i agree 100%

we have some guys having career years up to this point, i dont know that we couldnt seriously improve the team for 2009 by moving some of them. or, improve more for 09 than we could for 08.

by UNCDubya on Jul 7, 2008 11:00 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

package boggs with B. Barton

I can see something like this going down especially for a team who is already throwing in the towel. Barton could start for some teams out there but I’m not sure of his future with the Cards. Mather might actually make more sense as our 5th OF because of his power from the right side. I like Barton but unless the Cards part with C. Duncan (definitely should but suspect TLR is adamantly against) or Skip, I don’t see where there is room for Barton as anything more than a 5th OF. And we have Rasmus waiting in the wings.

But what does Boggs and Barton bring us? I’d be curious. Kyle Loshe was projected as a replacement level guy and turned out to be much more. If we can identify another pitcher in this mold getting beat up pitching in a bandbox who would benefit greatly from a move to spacious Busch, then I like the idea.

by jjray on Jul 7, 2008 10:27 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

question

Can we trade a Rule 5 player like Barton, and does it then become the responsibility of the next team to keep him on the MLB roster or offer him back to Cleveland? Or would we have to attempt to trade him back to Cleveland before we traded him elsewhere? I’m fuzzy on the rules

Free Colby

by Oregonian Redbird on Jul 7, 2008 11:13 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

trade rule V players

It’s my understanding that we can trade a Rule V player but said player goes to the new team under the same restrictions as he was with the Cards (i.e., must be on the 25 man roster). Remember the Cubs drafting Josh Hamilton in the 2006 Rule V draft and immediately trading him to the Reds.

by jjray on Jul 7, 2008 11:21 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

'in this mold' of Lohse

may very well be Bronson Arroyo. { after all, we don’t have a bona fide hot dog since Edmonds left ].
The Schu would fit in nicely in Cincy, as would Pineiro, or possibly the much ballyhooed Anthony Reyes.
Those three for the guitar-screeching Arroyo and Homer Bailey ?? ((Bailey has taken his lumps lately and has his head down a-current, but he is further along than Wainer was at a comparable stage and could end up being a solid #3 starter, even as soon as next year))i

by the Tewk on Jul 7, 2008 5:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Reyes has been

a fly ball pitcher, no? I don’t think that translates well to that ballpark. But if the Reds would do that and give up on Homer…well I am all for that.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 7, 2008 8:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

You know, Bronson is a fly ball pitcher too......

he did okay there before this year, and this year his troubles were not exclusive to the home park…...yeah, the park is a pitcher’s hell for all who enter; pity those who fail to adjust or allow the batter to square up on the ball…...Ha….wouldn’t that be something-Jocketty had several chances to trade him and never did-maybe he never really wanted to. But the Reds are in the division, and Mr. Jock surely wouldn’t deal with his old team, now would he? This whole thing makes me laugh-it seems so implausible. I guess that means we’ll read about it soon….in a real paper.

Oh, Bronson A.’s salary doubles for next year. Let’s ask for Harang instead, shall we?

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jul 7, 2008 11:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Our recent history as fans

I believe that we have been spoiled as fans for much of the last decade. Our string of successful, postseason teams and World Series title have made us less of a “win now” crowd. I think it would be ill-advised to waste this team’s tremendous first-half and not make a move to bolster our troops and increase our chances at a postseason berth, especially in the wake of Milwaukee’s armament.

Again, it’s a cost-benefit analysis and thank goodness LB put forth the proposition that it’s all or nothing. We must assess what we are willing to part with as it relates to what we are receiving. Going all in for this postseason alone seems foolish, but going in for this postseason and future seasons is not. I think we have to be willing to maneuver for an rotation arm (or lefty ‘penner or MIF), but not willing to sell the entire farm.

by bgh on Jul 7, 2008 10:12 AM EDT   0 recs

yeah

if we shore up at least one of those weaknesses (getting a rental starter, strengthening the bullpen, repairing out middle infield) we will still be in the hunt, and not have to give up too much in return.

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 7, 2008 2:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Unless he would

guarantee that he won’t opt out of the deal.

by JBrew on Jul 7, 2008 10:17 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Do you think the Jays

are serious about this Burnett for shortstop talk? Or is that just wishing out loud.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 7, 2008 11:04 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Everyone would love to get a SS

but at the end of the day, Burnett is going to opt out of that contract. I think that if the bidding gets going, Riccardi is going to dump Burnett. But I could be wrong.

by azruavatar on Jul 7, 2008 11:05 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well Burnett has certainly been

very mouthy in Toronto. I don’t think there is a lot of goodwill left there.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 7, 2008 11:52 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And I'm sure that would be well recieved in St. Louis

LaRussa and Duncan are, if nothing else, appreciative of out-spoken and hard-headed individuals. They would most likely see his personality as a breath of fresh air.

by Tackle Box on Jul 7, 2008 12:26 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't really follow the Jays,

but over the years it seems there has been a lot of bad blood and feuding involving a lot of players, managers, and the GM. Is that an accurate perception?

Who knew those mild-mannered Canucks could generate such heat? =D

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 7, 2008 1:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not seeing why Burnett is so good

someone explain?

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 7, 2008 2:21 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

2:1 K:BB ratio
strikes out almost a batter an inning
3.53 FIP
Groundball pitcher

what more do you want?

by azruavatar on Jul 7, 2008 2:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I know this isn't the best stat

but his ERA is almost 5

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 7, 2008 3:08 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Cheers to a .339 BABIP and 65% LOB

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 7, 2008 3:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Let him pitch with our defense behind him

See what happens

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 7, 2008 3:24 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah

but Toronto’s defense isn’t too shabby, is it?

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 7, 2008 3:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The field they play on is murder on their fielders, particularly their infielders

Look at Glaus last year compared to this year

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 7, 2008 3:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

you are right

it isn’t the best stat. the ones I listed are better.

Burnett is in the top 15 in FIP in the AL. He’s a damn good pitcher regardless of his ERA.

by azruavatar on Jul 7, 2008 6:45 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I still hope we don't bother with him

unless we somehow convince them to take some of our surplus

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 7, 2008 7:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

compensation

if the Brewers don’t resign CC, they should get at least a couple of top picks? I should know this by now…

Amaury translates into "Punisher of Spheroids" in the lost tongue of Atlantis. Marti means "Belgian Waffle."

by erik on Jul 7, 2008 10:14 AM EDT