Growing Pains

by azruavatar on Jul 4, 2008 9:29 AM EDT Comment 94 comments

There's simply not a lot of positives to take away from a game like that last night. Mitchell Boggs was starting his 4th game so I'm reluctant to label this as pure nerves -- and having watched him pitch the problems were obvious.

When Boggs was up in the zone he was still in the heart of it. If he wants to move up and down the ladder he needs to be throwing the ball higher outside the zone. His curveball was sloppy last night. He never seemed to get a good feel for the pitch even as the night went on. There were a couple infield "hits" where the ball would ricochet off Boggs and he couldn't quite field it cleanly. There's a degree of bad luck to those but it's still an area that he could improve on. If there's one thing I'd like to see him improve though it's throwing strikes. Of the 108 pitches, only 58 of them were strikes. That number simply has to go up if he wants to make it in the bigs.

I remember about a month ago when I was driving to a site visit for work listening to Dave Dunan be interviewed on 1380AM by Tim McKernan, Jim Hayes and Doug Vaughn (easily my favorite radio program in STL). They asked Duncan about Boggs and he was very candid in his response. He said that Boggs wasn't really ready to pitch in the major leagues. His fastball was good enough but the offspeed and breaking pitches need work. Some people may have bristled at this but Duncan was and is right.

There's a distinction to be made though even if you accept that Boggs isn't a finished product. Boggs has the ability to be to throw an excellent game. His natural stuff is major league caliber. Another, more experienced pitcher may be a finished product but that doesn't make him an inherently better option than Boggs. There's going to be bumps along the way but this is all part of building a team via the farm system. The Mets watched Mike Pelfrey pitch a pretty darn good game last night despite the fact that he's been a rollercoaster of a pitcher the last few years. Patience is a virtue in these kinds of situations.

Before I let you go to watch fireworks and eat some BBQ, I've also got some questions about the handling of the pitching staff last night. Boggs labored through 6 innings allowing 10 hits and walking 6 guys. He obviously wasn't getting it done from the get go last night. Call it taking one for the team or whatever but Tony continued to send him out there to rack up 108 pitches. That's not a high count in and of itself but there were several times I questioned whether Boggs should have been pulled. It's a judgment call that I'm willing to give to Tony even if I wouldn't have made the same decision.

With 3 innings left, TLR turned to Villone in the 7th. Villone hadn't pitched since the 1st game of the series and the week prior to that hadn't seem much action after throwing 66 pitches against the Phillies. I'm still not sure why Villone was the go to guy here. If ever there was a low leverage situation to let Mulder and Isringhausen pitch in, I'd think it would be when you are down by 10. Villone's the only lefty we've seen all year that's been even marginally successful but he's tossed into these mop-up type roles to just absorb pitches. I don't get it and I think it's an ineffectual use of him as a pitcher especially when there are so many question marks remaining in the pen.

In any event, that series is over with the Mets as we split the 4 game homestand. Make no mistake, the Mets are still a dangerous team despite their first half struggles. Of course, the Cardinals will be facing the best team in the NL and perhaps all of baseball tonight as they open a series with the Cubs. The Cubs lead us by 2.5 games and are, in honesty, the better team [spits on ground]. That said, they're certainly beatable and Zambrano is starting his first game since landing on the DL. If the Cards can take 2 of 3, there's some ground that can be made up and with any luck, the Brewers bullpen will continue to blow games on a regular basis to give us some breathing room.

Have a Happy 4th of July!

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As far as I'm concerned

Screw this game and save the pen for the Cubs.

by sdrone on Jul 4, 2008 9:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Chicago Tribune article

on “how the heck are the Cards in 2nd place?”

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/cs-080703-chicago-cubs-st-louis-cardinals,0,6329760.story

by sdrone on Jul 4, 2008 9:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

That is actually

a really good article. Nobody, whether you are a favorite or predicted to finish dead last, do what the cardinals are doing this year. With all of the injuries almost any team would throw in the towel. I can’t say I always agree with TLR’s on field decisions, but there is no doubt he is doing an amazing job with the team as a whole this year.

by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 4, 2008 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I like how

one of the comments is “just wait until they’re schedule gets harder.” I swear we’ve been hearing that for over two months now!

Well who the hell can see forever?

by Alxfritz on Jul 4, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

harder?

Like going on the road agianst Boston, the Tigers, and a Royals team who was 17 out of thier laast 20.

by Evilfrog on Jul 4, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

we by most MSM and others are going to be playing “above our heads” the entire season, and even post season.

Under no condition outside of a WS bid can I see us having any real amount of respect, so we may as well get used to MSM thinking we’re playing over our heads and go into each series making sure we keep on keeping on.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Jul 4, 2008 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"they're schedule"??

Jesus, fritz.

Well who the hell can see forever?

by Alxfritz on Jul 4, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You would

have to be awfully Thicke to think there wouldn’t be a few bumps in the road for our young players. If nothing else the team got boatloads of video for Duncan to show Boggs the way he shouldn’t pitch. As long as they’ve got each other, it will be alright.

"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin

by That's a Winner on Jul 4, 2008 10:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Using Villone makes some sense

when looking at the Cubs lineup. Only Fukudome, Edmonds, and Fontenot bat lefty. Fukudome’s now in the leadofff spot and sort of isolated from batting near Edmonds. The middle of the lineup (at least when Soto bats ahead of Edmonds) is a stretch of righties and RH relief will be the dominant need for the weekend, with only an out needed from a lefty here and there.

by enoscountry on Jul 4, 2008 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Even so

would not Mulder have been the obvious choice? Mulder hasn’t been good enough to be trusted, so losing him for part of the upcoming series is acceptable. Villone on the other hand, might be needed for those “here and there” outs against the Cubs.

-- Aidan Sonoda
In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas.

by Aidan Sonoda on Jul 4, 2008 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

mulder

he would have been pitching on back to back nights, probably not the best idea for him just yet

by Glowsticks on Jul 4, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Astute comments regarding Boggs

I tend to agree with you, Azru, and Duncan on Boggs. The guy does have ML quality pitches in his arsenal, and within a short period of time should be a decent back-end starter. However, it’s been clear, even in his best appearance against the Royals a start ago, that he’s got some room to mature before being tossed into the ML rotation full-time. All things considered, I’ve been happy that he’s been given this opportunity to fill in and think he’s done reasonably well. He should take quite a bit away from it, if nothing else realizing that his stuff is good enough to compete.

I also think using Villone was odd. Izzy would have been a better choice, but I suppose TLR decided that Izzy is ready for high-leverage situations already and wanted to hold him for this weekend.

On another note, I’m taking the family to the game tonight, and am pretty excited about this fact.

"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.

by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 4, 2008 11:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

For some reason LaRussa views

Villone as a multi-innings guy. He was rested. The pen needed to provide innings. Ergo, he was brought in. I don’t think he was planning on saving him for LOOGy duties, specifically. It would have been nice to see Jason come out. But perhaps psychologically that’s the wrong button to push: “Yeah, former closer, Cardinal saves leader, etc. you can pitch when we’re down by eight runs…”

by Red in Chicago on Jul 4, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is everyone forgetting

that izzy DID pitch last night? Maybe the game was so bad that you turned it off, but he did come in to finish the mop up work.

by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 4, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Anybody besides me

thinks Izzy’s ready for higher-leverage situations? His stuff’s looked pretty good to me his last few outings; if his knee’s not “barking”, seems like he could be used in a tight game…

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Jul 4, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

and think, if he is up to it, we should throw him back in the closer role. If we could use franklin earlier in games I think it makes us much better.

Does anyone know where Izzy is on this whole thing. Does he want the job back, or does he just want to be a set up/mop up type guy. He was pretty down on himself when he went to the DL and just was wondering if there were any articles/interviews with where he is mentally now?

by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 4, 2008 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I watched him throw that inning as well

I was merely surprised he wasn’t the first choice in the 7th.

by azruavatar on Jul 4, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Actually, for the reason that historically,

Villone IS a multi-innings guy. Nothing wrong with TLR’s reasoning there, except that it reduces his availability this weekend—which may not be a big deal, as enoscountry points out. I’d rather have lots of fresh right-handed arms in the pen.

One thing I noticed last night, and several other times in the last week or so, was that there were an awful lot of “gappers.” This may be simply because the Mets were destroying the ball, but it does make me wonder whether outfield positioning is optimal right now. Outfielders who are positioned correctly for the batter, pitcher, pitch selection, etc., can cut off a lot of potential extra-base hits.

by StanTheManFan on Jul 4, 2008 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Not really

As was pointed out earlier, the cubs basically have a right-handed heavy lineup. He’s probably done for tonight, but he’ll be fine tomorrow.

by Tackle Box on Jul 4, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

HAPPY BIRTHDAY JOSE OQUENDO!

thought I would pass on my birthday wishes here, as Jose has not been returning my phone calls lately. The only reason I know this is because we share the same birthday. Let Jose know you remembered if any of you are within shouting distance of 3rd base today.

by birdsonbat on Jul 4, 2008 11:48 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Happy Birthday to you!

and happy birthday to the Secret Weapon!
and happy birthday to our Independence!!

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 4, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

No matter what,

you’re gonna win 60 games, and you’re gonna lose 60 games… put last night’s debacle in the latter category and Play A Hard Nine tonight against the Cubs!

With all the money they’ve spent, they should be good… but they’re Still The Cubs, and it remains to be seen how they’ll respond to the “pressure” of a pennant race. I don’t think their .767 winning percentage at home is sustainable (but neither is their .419 winning percentage on the road, methinks!)

Seeing Jimmy Edmonds in that Cubbie blue is still just… wrong… I feel a little like Roger Angell when he commented on Tom Seaver’s 300th win with the White Sox; his first thought on seeing a picture of Carlton Fisk congratulating Tom Terrific was, “Both men are out of uniform!”

Bernie’s trying to “fire up” the Busch crowd for the weekend series. My view of the Cards/Cubs rivalry may very well be skewed by my own experience; as a Cardfan since I reached the age of reason, I’ve never hated the Cubs… it’s more like pity. Of course, it helps that the Cub fans I knew at Mizzou were of the “enlightened” variety; while they rooted for the Cubs, they were well aware of their team’s flaws.

Living in Arkansas most of my adult life, I’ve been surrounded by Cards fans… during my brief residence in Streator, Illinois, I discovered that White Sox fans “hated” the Cubs far more than Card fans did! I’ve looked on the Cards/Cubs rivalry as essentially friendly (as opposed to Red Sox/Yankees, or my own blazing disdain for anything Jayhawk!) I’ve never taken in Cards/Cubs at Wrigley, so I Could Be Wrong™!

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Jul 4, 2008 11:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

You mean there WERE Sox fans in Streator?

I grew up not far from there, and it seemed like most people were practically unaware of the White Sox’ existence. You were a Cubs fan, a Cardinals fan, a recent transplant and therefore fan of some other team, or basically an alien being. I don’t remember knowing a single Sox fan WIWAK.

by StanTheManFan on Jul 4, 2008 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

There's the big difference

I do hate the cubs. But I don’t live in Arkansas or Missouri, and that’s the difference. I grew up in Southern Illinois, but went to college at NIU and have lived in the Chicago suburbs ever since, which means I’ve been surrounded by cub fans for 15 years. Try that sometime and see if the indifference/pitty grows into bile turning hate. Of course, I’ve come to realize, it’s not the cubs that I truly dispise. It’s their fans. Actually, I’ve grown to really like the cubs because they have so often brought me so much joy. And that joy is cub fan misery. If actually gives me life, puts a little hop in my step.

Which is why I LOVE listening to Ron Santo, because there is no other more pure form of cubbie misery than that of Ron Santo.

OHHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by Tackle Box on Jul 4, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed.

Pat & Ron are great, especially if the Cubs lose…

Boomer.

by glamboomer on Jul 4, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Good observation on the White Sox fans

I’m a Cub fan visiting from Bleed Cubbie Blue. I hope we have a great hard fought series over the weekend.

White Sox fans are much more obsessed with the Cubs rivalry than than the other way around. There is a envy that they have because they are simply not as popular as the Cubs. Sure they’ve won the WS recently and Ozzie makes the headlines a lot, but a mediocre Cubs team is more popular than a good White Sox team.

Cubs fans see the Cardinals as our rivals and the cross town classic is distraction from the more important division games. This is going to be a gret weekend!

"There are no curses here...Games are won and lost on the baseball field" - Lou Piniella

by El Borto on Jul 4, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Greetings......

Welcome….I am not a Cub hater. My husband grew up in Downers Grove and he was a White Sox fan-kind of a flaky bunch they are. I must admit that I follow them-for conversation with my husband, and this year I’m kind of enjoying a lot of their players-like Carlos Quentin, Nick Swisher, and their youngsters in the starting rotation. Their crazy manager makes for great theater too.

The Cubs-Cards rivalry is fun, but I’ve never gotten too worked up over it. I hope we don’t see Wood; I hope we do see Marmol….......

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jul 4, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

no hate for the cubs here either

like you, I sort of pity them, especially since a lot of my friends and younger brother are big Cubs fans. It must be hard to stick by that team every year, as they are not so bad to not make the playoffs but usually lose in the first round. I suppose that little bit of hope is what keeps them a popular team. and I can’t hate on a perennial underdog either (although I can’t really say they are that this season). Living in Chicago, I notice that the White Sox fan do indeed hate the Cubs more than Cardinal fans. That said, I have run across a lot of nonsense from Cubs fans living here. There’s only so many times you can hear someone say “The Cardinals suck” to you and take them seriously.

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 4, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

"The Better Team"

It’s beginning to look a lot like the Cubs AREN’T the better team and certainly not the best team in baseball. Now, they can come in and sweep us out of Busch but I believe they’ lost something like 10 of their last 12?

Their bullpen is no longer reliable, Derek Lee has no power and tonight’s start for Carlos Zambrano is huge because otherwise, they’ve got 1.5 starters in their rotation that can actually win games.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 4, 2008 11:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Stolen from BCB

“You want to worry about Marmol? Go ahead, because so am I (and so is Lou). Including his meltdown in Tampa on June 19, Marmol in his last seven appearances has pitched five innings, allowed five hits, seven walks and three HR for ten earned runs and an 18.00 ERA. I don’t know what’s wrong with him; if he’s hurt he needs to get to the DL, and if he’s not, something has to be turned around quickly because the Cubs can’t win games without him.”

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 4, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

those 2 new starters they had going pretty much sucked, and Marmol, their workhorse, is already fatigued halfway through the trip. Lou is going to have to be creative, but it doesn’t hurt that they have a lot of offense.

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 4, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Before I let you go to watch fireworks and eat some BBQ, I’ve also got some questions about the handling of the pitching staff last night.

What is this, Independence Day or Festivus? From that point on, I read your essay in Jerry Stiller’s voice. Good stuff.

by liam on Jul 4, 2008 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Nobody leaves

until AZ pins me!

Well who the hell can see forever?

by Alxfritz on Jul 4, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll get

the aluminum pole set up. When does the Airing of Grievances begin? Because around here that might take awhile.

"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin

by That's a Winner on Jul 4, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

My feats of strength

are better than yours.

I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck

by bukowski on Jul 4, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lets find out

Alright, It’s on. Oh, who am I kidding. I always end up running away crying in the end.

"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin

by That's a Winner on Jul 4, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Since I started a seinfeld meme

this is my favorite scene/episode of all time. Basically I walk around all day with a fake look plastered on my face as I listen to the internal conversation that often goes like this. It’s a blast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyq9MMcLsv4

by azruavatar on Jul 4, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would rather not see Mulder 2 days in a row.

Guy is new to relieving. And I think he might be injury prone.

by Evilfrog on Jul 4, 2008 12:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I was just about to post that

Why would they do that to a pitcher they are trying to ease in? I actually wanted Miles in the 9th but I realized Tony had run himself out of infielders the previous inning and that wouldn’t happen. It also looked like Mulder was throwing a bullpen side session before the game. We really need a huge game from Lohse on saturday

by The Butcher on Jul 4, 2008 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Tony knows

where to use his pitching. Wellenmyer probably, Looper quite possibly could need long relief, and those are games we will “possibly” be in range of. If they don’t make Zambrono throw a bunch of pitches tonight in the early inning, they don’t deserve to win…....all of the braggadocio about 100%, better they ever is bull shit. His shoulder is weak and they are desperate.

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 4, 2008 12:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Jeff Francoeur was demoted to AA

I guess his dad isn’t a pitching coach :P

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 4, 2008 12:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

to be fair

Ducan has shown signs of comming out of his slump.

by Evilfrog on Jul 4, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

True.

I think he’s OPSing around 1.000 over the last ten games.

by notmorganfreeman on Jul 4, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It would be nice if we could also

OBP something too, if he’s batting in front of Pujols.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 4, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that's been

around ~.420 over the 7 days

by Evilfrog on Jul 4, 2008 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know

I just found it funny. Francoeur has been a staple of the Braves lineup for the past 2 years, and thanks to an extended slump, he gets demoted.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 4, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you really think

there is a comparison between Duncan and Francouer? They are completely different players.

And Francouer’s entire big league career has been a slump except for one awesome first month. The guy’s OBP was under .300 for an entire 162 game season, fer chrissakes, should have been below .300 in ‘07 except for an 80-point BABIP spike, and was headed that way in ‘08. He was really unlucky to do that well in his call-up in 2005, because he should have spent 2006 in the minors and probably 2007 as well. He belongs in the minors because he has something left to learn (plate discipline) and was brought up too early and his career has suffered.

Duncan OTOH just needs confidence and health. He tried to play injured and lost his mojo; once he gets that back he’ll be the second-best hitter on the team and a top-ten corner OF offensively.

"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN

by SleepyCA on Jul 4, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sabathia to Brewers

A lot of chatter going on about it right now. Seems like they are offering their 1st Round pick of 07 LaPorta and others for him.

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 4, 2008 12:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i thought you weren't allowed to trade a draftee that quickly

i thought, once drafted, a guy was guaranteed not to be traded for a least one complete minor-league season - since last year wasn’t a “complete” season for La Porta (he was drafted in june), he can’t be dealt until the end of 2008.

i could be wrong about that, though . . . .

by lboros on Jul 4, 2008 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Possible PTBNL?

Kinda under the table, wink and a nod agreement?

by Tackle Box on Jul 4, 2008 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes. The Pete Incaviglia Rule

He can’t be traded until he’s signed with a club for one year. That year ended June 25, 2008.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 4, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Link to the possible deal.

Here’s the link.
There’s also a report from Robo-thal on the possible trade.
What’s interesting is that they could make this Sabathia trade & still have plenty in the system to get Burnett from the Blue Jays as well.. Jesus.

Good for the Brewers. I like them. As much as a Cardinals fan can like an NL Central competitor.

Boomer.

by glamboomer on Jul 4, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, they would be hot

this year. But they can’t take on either one of those guys next year without dumping Sabathia. Interesting strategy: a third-place team goes all-in to win.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 4, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oops without dumping Sheets

At least, based upon what everyone’s saying.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 4, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Burness vs Sheets

Which one would you like to sign to a 3 year/45 million contract?

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 4, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Grrr

Burnett

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 4, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think it's an academic question

because Sheets is going to test free agency.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 4, 2008 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So will

Burnett will most likely test free agency also

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 4, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

All-in to win

And then has a pretty frickin’ huge first-round haul in the rule 4 draft the following year.

by liam on Jul 4, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

with a real good chance at winning the world series this year.

by Tackle Box on Jul 4, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Better them than the Cubs

I’d like us to win, but if not us, I don’t mind the Brewers winning. Anything but the Cubs.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 4, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

honestly, how likely is it that they will trade for both pitchers?

let alone one? i can’t remember the last time one team landed one top of the rotation starter in july, let alone two. are the Brew Crew really this desperate to go all in? they need bullpen help a lot more than starters right? so whats the point if they get two guys that can shut down a team for 7 or 8 innings a night, yet the pen can’t close out the win? it really doesn’t make that much sense to me especially because both guy will leave for the big bucks on either coast. not to mention sheets is gone as well.

is a possible flame out in the first round of the playoffs really worth 5+ more years of sub .500 baseball? because that’s all long it will take all their draft picks they will get when those guys dash for the cash to get to the bigs.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Jul 4, 2008 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe they'll move the starters that are replaced

to the bullpen. it couldn’t make it much worse than it already is. doubt if they’ll actually get both of those guys though.

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 4, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They're a scary good drafting team, imro, to boot.

That said, if Doug Melvin could build a bullpen worth half a shit, they wouldn’t be so desperate right now.

by azruavatar on Jul 4, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bullpen has been their weak link.

About time Mr. Melvin hire someone with expertise on building a better bullpen.

Of course most relievers are inconsistent from year to year, so I guess it’s not as easy as it seems….

They certainly know how to draft guys that can hit-now teach them to field, and get some pitching in there…..they can move some guys off of the ML roster too. It will make things very interesting.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jul 4, 2008 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It'll be fun when we offer arby to Looper/Lohse

Both are likely to be Type As after this year assuming BLoop keeps getting wins.

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 4, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

How does it work

How do they deciede what Type a free agent is? What Factors?

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 4, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Factors.

Type A = Top 30% of their positional group based on stats (sometimes oddly interpreted)..
Type B = Top 31-50% of their positional group.

Usually based on last 3 years played stats which is how we got compensated for 1/2 a season from Troy Percival last year.

We have to sign Looper if we offer arbitration.

Boomer.

by glamboomer on Jul 4, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What happens if Looper accepts?

Then we have to sign him, right?

by Red in Chicago on Jul 4, 2008 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, we would go to arbitration.

about arbitration.

He’d probably get between 8 and 10M, maybe more. i think there is a way to release him and only pay part of the salary if you do it early enough, but I can’t find a link to it now. i know we talked about it when trying to decide what to do about Eckstein.

"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN

by SleepyCA on Jul 4, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Buster Olney on The best of mike and mike

said he thinks this deal gets done…also he gave alot of props to the cards…oh and darius rucker was on as a host(hootie).

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Jul 4, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

flippin, uh, 'ya know'

Just saw Aaron flippin Boone interviewed on the Reds’ network (he’s now with the Nats). I lost count of the “ya knows” after the first minute of maybe a two minute interview. And the “uh”s were even more hopeless to tally.
Worse, when George Grande and Chris Welsh return on camera to kill some rain delay time, THEY are doing the “ya know” thing too. It’s infectious.

by the Tewk on Jul 4, 2008 1:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

steve phillips on Mike and mike

“it’s hard to hit a three run homer with noone on”

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Jul 4, 2008 2:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Hilarious

I was reading Northsidebaseball, reading about how Carlos Marmol has suddenly transformed into a gas can, and saw this:

he’s exhausted from fending off the sexual advances of a new teammate.

I burst into laughter. Whoever could they be talking about? (sarcasm’)

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 4, 2008 2:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah that's a head scratcher, it's probably someone who loves the half shirt

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Jul 4, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Boggs

Azru, agreed on your take on Boggs. Despite the bad numbers, I don’t think he was terrible. He wasn’t aggressive enough on early counts, and hitters were sitting on the fastball for the later counts. I hope this was a good lesson for him, i.e. don’t beat yourself, make the other team beat you. He did well in his post-game interview, so at least his positive attitude was intact.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Jul 4, 2008 2:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Learn a lot

I think you learn a lot about person after getting their ass handed to them. Does it crush them or provide insight for the future?

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 4, 2008 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah,

It was a true sign of him needing a change up that he can have confidence in. He doesn’t have confidence in the slurve against LHP at all, and never locates it well.

When you have a few LHP in the lineup that are lethargic when attacking the offspeed/breaking stuff, but love the fastball, it makes a scary situation for him to be in.

If I could say a couple of things about last night, it would be this:

Trust your fastball more, it’s an incredible pitch with the natural movement it has, don’t be intimidated with your slurve when you need it against a LHP, put it in there, locate it, make them beat you. Use weaker LHP to build confidence in the changeup you currently have and know that when you go to Memphis or during the off season, that has to be the thing you work on most. You’ll be a whole new pitcher with a solid change up, but until then you’re going to have to be precise when it comes to a LHP heavy lineup.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Jul 4, 2008 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Check out the Gameday video of Youkilis' triple against NY today

It pops out of Damon’s glove and just sits on top of the wall for a couple seconds before falling back onto the field. That’s a rather unlikely occurrence.

by BTown Birds fan on Jul 4, 2008 3:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

OT, but I think everyone will enjoy this:

Switch pitcher throws to switch hitter

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jul 4, 2008 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

For those who are curious, Staten Island is one of the Yankees singe A affiliates.

Which I guess means that this guy is in the pipeline.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jul 4, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah

I think a lot of us saw that already. It would drive TLR nuts!

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 4, 2008 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

or it would be his favorite weapon!

TLR to Mo, “GET ME THAT KID NOW!”

by fuegophil on Jul 4, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

that would probably drive everydody crazy!

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 4, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

but seriously...they're going to need a new rule for that..

Everyone knows what a switch hitter is…but a switch pitcher? Once the pitcher comes set to the rubber his next pitch must be from that side IMHO…or it would turn into a joke

mattnj

by mattnj on Jul 4, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

This pitcher was briefly on Talk of the Nation earlier this week

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=92086368

He talked a bit about the at-bat in this video and about his different pitching styles with each arm (more heat from the right side, more location and changing speeds from the left side). Interestingly, pitching is the only thing he does with both hands – he’s not ambidextrous for anything outside of baseball. Also, he talked about what he said was the minor league rule, which is that each person (pitcher and batter) is allowed to switch sides once during the at-bat (I think that was what he said; I’m going from memory).

by BTown Birds fan on Jul 4, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

They(single A league he plays in) invoked the "Venditte" (Pat) rule because of him

just found it..once he steps to the rubber, that is the side he has to pitch for the entire at bat…..his era so far is under 1 …we all may see him with some club in the future.

Here’s the article:

mattnj

by mattnj on Jul 4, 2008 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

mattnj

by mattnj on Jul 4, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20080702&content_id=3051858&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

mattnj

by mattnj on Jul 4, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damn thing!

mattnj

by mattnj on Jul 4, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

ok i got the rule

and both pitcher and hitter can change once per at bat

mattnj

by mattnj on Jul 4, 2008 6:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Fromthe minor league manual

6.15 AMBIDEXTROUS PITCHERS
In the rare occasion of an ambidextrous pitcher, the pitcher
and batter may each change positions one time at-bat. For
example, if the pitcher changes from right-handed to left-handed
and the batter then changes batter’s boxes, each player must
remain that way for the duration of that at-bat (unless the
offensive team substitutes a pinch hitter, and then each
player may again “switch” one time).

So, essentially, the hitter has the final say.

Well who the hell can see forever?

by Alxfritz on Jul 4, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs