Three Little Birds
by the red baron on Jul 30, 2008 10:12 AM EDT
440 comments
It's actually tough not to feel pretty optimistic this morning if you're a Cardinal fan. It's a feeling that we haven't really had a ton of lately, what with our division rivals adding big guns in their respective rotations, continued bullpen implosions, and an offensive attack slightly less consistent than Cybil.
Today, though, it feels pretty good to be a Cards fan. We've won the last two games handily (though, admittedly, from a Braves squad in freefall), scoring twenty runs in two games. Against all odds, this team is still firmly in the wild card race, and only a handful of games behind the Cubs for the division lead. And most exciting of all, the franchise's only non Gibsonian Cy Young Award winner will take the mound tonight in Atlanta.Tough to feel very sour this morning.
Hell, even the bullpen looked pretty strong last night. Franklin got through his two innings with no damage done (he did make it slightly more exciting than necessary, though), and Kyle McClellan pitched decently. The leadoff walk certainly didn't help matters any, but after that he settled down and tossed a pretty strong frame. If not for the throwing error by Izturis, he most likely would have escaped unscathed.
Then again, the Cardinals are playing a team that's utterly demoralized, having just traded away their sole remaining star component on offense and finding out that the staff ace, Tim Hudson, is going under the knife for a quick Teej. I suppose it's much easier to beat up on a team like this than the Brewers or Metropolitans, no?
With all of that in mind, though, I still feel really good about the team this morning. Even when I hear one of the front office members talking about Wainwright going back to the bullpen, I feel like it'll all just work itself out. Even as the trade deadline approaches and it becomes clearer and clearer that there simply aren't many moves to be made (sensible moves, that is), I don't get too very upset.
To what do I owe my newfound calm? Well, I think we've finally reached the point of acceptance with this team. We started the year just hoping to see some young kids do well and the team not embarrass itself. We've obviously gotten that. Then, of course, as the fever of competition set in, we all began foaming at the mouth for victory, for glory, for the chance to break the Cubs' fans hearts yet again. Inevitably, with our expectations so inflated, the crash soon followed, and our hearts were wroth.
Now, though, now we've moved beyond all of that. We've had our hearts broken as badly as they can be by this team in the Great Bullpen Crash of 2008. We sat and watched helplessly as contest after contest was let slip away in the last six outs. Even just a competent bullpen, an average bullpen, would have the Cardinals sitting in first place right now. But that's okay. Regardless of what happens now, the rest of this season is going to be fun, and I think we've all come to the point of just accepting that whatever it's going to be is what it's going to be.
It could also be that the rare, poisonous mold growing in the air ducts of my house is beginning to cause some pretty severe brain damage, causing this feeling of peace which is, in fact, simply large numbers of neural synapses shutting down. Eh. Either way.
I don't really have a whole lot to talk about today. I don't have any charts, or graphs, because I'm not so good at the math. So, I thought that I would just pose a few questions to everyone and just see how everybody's feeling this morning.
First question. What do you expect out of Monsieur Carpenter tonight? This is probably as good a situation as you could possibly hope for him in his first start back, facing a lineup without much in the way of danger and a team that's pretty down just in general. He is going up against a pretty tough young customer in Jair Jurrjens, but that shouldn't really affect how Carpenter throws.
Personally, I think Carp will probably be on a fairly strict pitch limit in the 80-85 range. His control will be a little iffy, but against this lineup I think he'll still be able to get the job done. My prediction:
6 IP, 2 ER, 4 H, 3 BB, 3 K, 87 Pitches
Second question. What's the one move you most want to see the Cardinals make before tomorrow's trade deadline? It's become pretty clear that the big moves aren't going to happen, but there could still be something useful in the works. What one guy out there would you really like to see the Cards try to get? Or, conversely, what one piece would you like to see the Cards sell off?
Third question. This one's related to #2, but not exactly the same. There's been some talk about putting Kyle Lohse on the market. If Carpenter comes out and is effective tonight, do you think the Cards should toss Lohse out there and see what they can get for him? Of course, I'm sure that Mo and co already have a pretty good idea of what Lohse is worth, but the closer you get to the deadline, the more desperate teams will become to get the help they think they need.
There was a big discussion recently on the subject over at Gateway Redbirds. There wasn't much of a consensus arrived at. I'm curious to see how this community feels about the subject. With Wainwright hopefully on his way back within the next few weeks and Carpenter coming back tonight, Lohse may be somewhat expendable. You would certainly be selling high on him, as his value is probably greater right now than at any other point in his career. Personally, I would probably be willing to do it. Of course, I would also make a terrible GM, as I would be entirely too quick to sell, always trying to improve the talent base regardless of the actual situation. How about you guys? Hold on to Lohse, or try to turn him into talent for the future?
News and notes:
Apparently the Diamondbacks are close to getting a new contract extension done with Dan Haren. Pretty much every time I see Haren's name in print anywhere I just get sadder and sadder. A 2.77 FIP? Sigh.
The Pirates are still looking to move both Jason Bay and Jack Wilson, but it doesn't look as if a deal for either one is going to get done.
I keep hearing that the Dodgers are looking to try and find some sort of help at shortstop to try and shore up their middle infield in the absence of Rafael Furcal, but talks seem to be nearly nonexistent. Anybody have any idea what's going on with LA?
The Cards made a bunch of minor league roster moves yesterday, including bringing Jon Jay up to Triple A. Future Redbirds has the complete rundown of all the maneuvering.
I'll be back later with a game thread. Have a swell day, everybody.
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Rushing Carp back?
I’ve seen concerns that he is being rushed back. I think he would have faced tougher hitters in Memphis than this Braves lineup.
by birdjam on Jul 30, 2008 10:20 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree,
but at the same time I don’t think it’s a bad thing for him to face a weaker lineup, get some more confidence, and possible get the ball rolling. I don’t think there’s any doubt he’d be facing just as good of a lineup in AAA. That’s basically what he’s facing tonight.
6IP, 2ER, 5H, 2BB, 4KS 79pitches and a W
Go Crazy Folks, Go Crazy!!!
by joshbaz12 on Jul 30, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But to respond to the questions...
1) “Expectations” feels like too strong a word – I heave learned not to “expect” anything with this team, but what I am hoping for is 4 to 5 innings and just a couple of runs allowed. What I want more than anything, though is for him to leave the mound because he or the coaches want him to, bot because he has to. And I hope he wakes up tomorrow feeling the way the doctors want him to.
2) I’d love to see the Cards sell high on one or more guys who are not actually as good as they are currently playing, but I really like everyone who fits that description (I’m thinking Ludwick, Schumaker, and Lohse) and would hate to see them go. So unless the front office can find a way to significantly improve this year’s AND next year’s teams – which I doubt is possible – then I am fine standing pat.
3) Same answer as #2, particularly the part about being able to significantly improve the team. I do not think Lohse can sustain this type of success longterm, so shopping him now would definitely be selling high. If the right offer came along, I would be fine with trading him even though I like him.
by birdjam on Jul 30, 2008 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry for the typos
Clearly I meant “have” in the first line and “not because he has to” in the third. Lousy fat fingers…
by birdjam on Jul 30, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have the concern he is being rushed back.
My concern isn’t really about the toughness of the lineup. My concern is that in a rehab assignment, if a certain pitch isn’t effective, he can keep trying it to get a feel for it. He doesn’t really have that option in the majors. At some point during the start, he would have to abandon that pitch all together.
I just don’t think this is the best option for success. He’ll be able to get back to form much quicker in a rehab stint than in the majors.
by outraged on Jul 30, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Cardinals
are looking at Carp’s start tonight this way: 80-to-90 pitches of a rusty Carp are better than what the Birds would get from Mitch Boggs, Mike Parisi, et. al. right now!
I’m not expecting “Cy Carp” tonight by any means, but if he’s better than your other options, why not let him pitch in The Show?
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on Jul 30, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I really don't care what the results are
All I want to see is a fastball with a bit of giddyup and a curveball with some break to it.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 30, 2008 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
fastball has giddyup. Offspeed is fine
Fastball doesn’t have Carpinter like location.
by Evilfrog on Jul 30, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think a rusty Carp
will be much better than our other options right now. But putting him in the majors will have the effect of slowing down his return to near his former self. By putting him the majors now, I think the Cardinals are depriving themselves of having a superior Carpenter for the stretch run.
by outraged on Jul 30, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First Start
I would rather him be a little rushed so he can get his first start against AAAA Braves vs the Cubs.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 30, 2008 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great post, RB...
Carp prediction:
5 IP, 3 ER, 6 H, 3 BB, 4 K, 88 pitches and a ND
At this point, I would be satisfied if they did nothing…better that than something stupid
and speaking of something stupid, IMO, that is what it would be to dangle Lohse based on just one appearance by Carpenter…can never have enough pitching.
by tbell61 on Jul 30, 2008 10:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
With regard to never having enough pitching
by Ray Lankford on Jul 30, 2008 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing that is kinda cool
The Cards didn’t win their 60th game in 2007 until August 21st. I understand this is a different season, team and competition but that still shows that this team has played very solid baseball pretty consistently this season
by riotmute on Jul 30, 2008 10:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
El Carpitain prediction
6 ip, 2 ERs, 5 hits, 2 bbs, 7 ks, 91 pitches. And a W,
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Jul 30, 2008 10:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
El Carpitain
I really like that nickanme. Props to you, Alxfritz!
Put me down for 6IP, 2 ERs, 6 Hs, 2BBs, 6Ks. 87 pitches.
by cardsgirl95 on Jul 30, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
El Carpitain is almost as good as El Hombre.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on Jul 30, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did just pick him up off of waivers on my fantasy team,
but, yeah.
I also envision TLR having gone into the locker room over the weekend and saying:
“To keep up with Milwaukee getting Sabathia and Chicago getting Harden, we made a move to pick up a cy young winner that eats innings and craps k’s, had the best winning percentage in the majors for a few years and is an absolute bulldog on the mound. Carp starts Wednesday.”
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Jul 30, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I’m counting on him to help me take a league lead next week with his 2-start week.
I’ve been totally excited about this start since about Monday.
6 IP, 1 ER, 4H, 2BB, 4K, W.
by thefutureofamerica on Jul 30, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Man do I feel vindicated.
I was prerusing SI.com this morning, an what do I find but a report of trade rumors involving Adam Dunn.
A couple of weeks ago, I accused Dunn of being fat and lazy and was lambasted by the community for it. Apparently I am not the only one that thinks Dunn is soft and out of shape.
“Adam Dunn is the man without a rumor. The Reds would deal him, but none of the teams out there looking for outfield help seem to be interested, and it’s one of the more confounding aspects of this year’s deadline. Dunn is 28 years old. He’s on track for a fifth straight 40-homer season. His on-base percentage is .386, which would be the highest on the Angels, White Sox, Tigers, Brewers, Marlins and Rays and the second-highest on the Mets. Negatives include his astronomical strikeout totals and the perception (articulated last month publicly and somewhat embarrassingly by Toronto GM J.P. Ricciardi) that Dunn is a soft, unmotivated player who doesn’t come through in the clutch.”
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 30, 2008 10:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry to hijack your post, the red baron.
I just HAD to put that in there. Ahhh the sweet pancakes-with-syrup taste of justice!
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 30, 2008 10:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmm...
i can totally identify with a feeling of vindication, because it’s an awesome feeling. but i gotta say, all that says to me is that there is a perception of Dunn which we were already all aware of. doesn’t mean it’s a correct perception.
by mattybobo on Jul 30, 2008 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
And I don’t see anywhere where it mentions him “out of shape.”
by saladdays on Jul 30, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if that was true it's still a dumb position
.247 .381 .522 for a career. Going to be 5 straight 40 home run seasons. I wish I was that fat and lazy.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jul 30, 2008 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't think it's fair to call someone fat and lazy, especially someone you don't have
up close and personal knowledge of. I would have to say GM’s need to look below the surface-and beyond the batting average-there IS plenty that Dunn brings to the table.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 30, 2008 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dunn is an impressionable youth.
He spends long hours playing video game and I’m sure, wondering what its all about. No one really knows what he might become if he stopped being the “comic relief” for Griffey. I am not a fan, but I would guess in the right organization, with the right team mates, he might be a monster producer.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 30, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well in fairness he is a butcher defensively and gives a lot back
But focusing on a guy for not being a superstar because he’s simply very good is unfair.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jul 30, 2008 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
american league
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 30, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dunn is 28 years old
Hardly an “impressionable youth.”
Many people his age play video games a lot. I don’t know how old you are, but that’s a common hobby/pastime/whatever to people in his age group. It doesn’t mean that he is “wondering what it’s all about.”
by saladdays on Jul 30, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how do you know he plays video games?
maybe he’s not very philosophical either
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My total worry about Dunn isn't his current production or the production for the next couple of years...
It is his durability that worries me. He will never lose his tremendous batting eye, but I am afraid his bat will slow down very quickly as he ages due to his lack of physical conditioning. Guys just can’t carry that kind of weight for a very long career. They tend to fall apart all at once. I don’t think Dunn exhibits the kind of physical conditioning it will take to extend his career very far into his 30’s.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 30, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's listed as 6-6, 240 lbs.
If that’s accurate, it doesn’t seem like all that much weight to be carrying around. Prince Fielder, on the other hand . . .
by Ray Lankford on Jul 30, 2008 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously, you and I both know
that Dunn is a teensey bit heavier than that. I think he was listed at 6-6, 240 his rookie year, and he has carried that listing his whole career. Scott Rolen was listed at 6’4” and 225. I would hazard a guess that weight gap between Dunn and Rolen is that small.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 30, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reds website has him at 275
The previous figure was from Baseball Reference.com.
I still don’t know if I’m on board with the argument that, because he’s heavy, he’ll decline rapidly. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. Wasn’t Babe Ruth heavy?
by Ray Lankford on Jul 30, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, and so was
Mo Vaughn. Comparing Ruth to Dunn isn’t exactly Apples-to-Apples. I know there are people that buck the trend, but the entire medical field will certainly say that extra weight is hard on the joints, causing premature wear on knees, ankles, and hips. I simply worry that Dunn (who is a bit of a two-trick pony with the walks and homeruns) will turn into a one-trick pony with just the walks alone if his foundation doesn’t hold up.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 30, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
comparing dunn to vaughn is just insipid
by baw on Jul 30, 2008 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It has to be better more accurate
comparing him to Ruth.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 30, 2008 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"he's just a two-trick pony!"
“All he does is crush the ball and walk!”
by jdub176 on Jul 30, 2008 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
but what happens when he stops crushing the ball?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 30, 2008 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who's to say that he will?
Frank Thomas has had some injury problems over the years (or you know, “his foundation hasn’t held up well”), but he still obliterates the ball when he’s healthy. It’s funny that his name comes up, actually, since we’re talking about Ricciardi…
by jdub176 on Jul 30, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there's no rhyme or reason
on whether or not being a large guy will deteriorate your joints faster. it depends on heredity, and I don’t think any of us is a genetics expert
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, where's thepainguy when I need a medical backup!
There are numerous studies that link body mass with premature joint deterioration.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 30, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There were also contradicting studies about pitchers.
The Hardball times did a study looking at the performance falloff of different pitchers body types. Heavy pitchers showed the best aging curves over thinner pitchers.
The reasons are not understood.
by DriverZn on Jul 30, 2008 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you saying that some people are not more prone to injury than others?
that some are not made of tougher stuff, regardless of amount of weight? (within reason of course)
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its not exactly apples to oranges either
Your argument - that heavy players decline fast - is supported and contradicted with examples. Because I picked one that contradicts your argument doesn’t mean its not comparable.
by Ray Lankford on Jul 30, 2008 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the sense
that Vaughn played 10 years ago and Ruth played in a whole different era, I believe the Vaughn comparison holds more relevance than the other.
Look, my point is that Dunn is certainly very heavy. He is slow both in the field and on the basepaths. He has a poor throwing arm. Barring a change in habits or scenery, none of these should get any better as he ages. I believe he is a very high-risk player to add on to our roster, considering the cost it would take to get and retain his services.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 30, 2008 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vaughn
was certainly much heavier than Adam Dunn, and not near as athletic as Dunn either. A more favorable comparison could be made of guys like Reggie Jackson, Dave Henderson, Dave Parker, or Frank Thomas. All those guys were modestly overweight for much of their careers and continued to produce at a high level into their mid to late thirties.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 30, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dave Parker was a large man
but a phenomenal athlete who ran well (for most of his career) and had an absolute cannon for an arm. He was drafted by the NFL, they don’t take non-athletic doughboys.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 30, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dave Parker was also 6'1" and 195
hardly anything near the size of Dunn. I looked up all the sluggers that 4stick is mentioning, and Reggie Jackson was 6’ and 200 lbs, Dave Henderson was 6’2” and 220.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 30, 2008 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think , as you stated before , that was at the beginning of their careers
BR has Gorman Thomas listed as 6’2 210. I don’t remember him being anywhere near that svelt, and Gorman Thomas didn’t have that bad of a career.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 30, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that's fine
My point is that you can’t categorically say ‘This guy’s overweight because he doesn’t work hard, therefore, his career is going to shit sometime soon’ without having more justification than your opinion.
Maybe he will fall apart all at once, maybe he won’t. Maybe Dunn is just a big fucking guy who will always be heavy no matter how hard he conditions. Also, how is being slow evidence of a lack of conditioning? And a poor throwing arm? I don’t get it.
I really don’t have a dog in this fight, except that I think Dunn gets a bad wrap. Who knows what will happen? Certainly none of us.
by Ray Lankford on Jul 30, 2008 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why wouldn't
a team he’s traded to say, “oh hey, btw, you’re running 4-5 miles a day during the off season or you’re getting benched” or something. maybe not in such draconian terms, but can’t a team dictate a fitness regimen?
by spencegrif on Jul 30, 2008 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i love
how we’re talking about adam dunn like he’s chris farley or something. the guy is in fine shape.
by baw on Jul 30, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Adam isn't careful
He’s gonna find himself playin’ BASEBALL in a FIELD…down by the RIVER!
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on Jul 30, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What? Dunn is going to Pittsburgh?
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on Jul 30, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
surprised though
that an AL team wouldn’t want him as DH. he’d be a great DH
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"due to his lack of physical conditioning"
for the zillionth time…. how exactly do you know his conditioning routine?
by baw on Jul 30, 2008 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I'm sorry.
I didn’t realize that you knew more than what the GM of a major league team does. Riccardi may be an ass, but I guarantee he knows more about Adam Dunn’s physical conditioning and reputation than any of us do. Add in the fact that we have litterally watched the guy’s waistline bulge about 6 inches since he got in the leage, and it’s not hard to interpolate the cause. Do you really think the guys has a routine that involves healthy eating habits and much cardiovascular work?
Be honest here.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 30, 2008 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
do you even know what ricciardi said?
here: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3453059
how exactly would j.p. ricciardi, in all his infinite baseball wisdom, know anything about adam dunn’s conditioning, anyway? because that’s what GMs talk about in the steamer? “boy, adam sure looks like he’s put on some weight.” “yeah, he likes to scarf packages of ballpark franks instead of hitting off a tee everyday.”
oh wait… here’s that overweight guy. god, somebody call jenny craig!
by baw on Jul 30, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
that guy is just so fat he can’t even get outta bed!
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't know
if you look at that pick he doesn’t look that bad to me. He’s got some belly but he doesn’t look fat or out of shape
"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda" - Rev. Jerry Falwell
by elirock83 on Jul 30, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even if you're right...
Those are habits that could easily be changed by a change of scenery. Maybe there’s a really good pizza joint near his house in Cincy or something. His lack of workouts and poor eating habits (assuming this is true, although I’m skeptical) don’t seem to have much to do with him hitting a baseball, and could be dealt with in his next contract as well.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 30, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmm pizza?...
I’m betting it’s a ” SKYLINE CHILE ” place near his house….!!!
by Timbo02 on Jul 30, 2008 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hah!
Little do you know that I do windsor pilates with Adam Dunn every Sunday morning!
by jdub176 on Jul 30, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok
that really cracked me up
i take your signatures and use them as away messages
by ihavebadknees on Jul 30, 2008 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Huh?
Riccardi may be an ass, but I guarantee he knows more about Adam Dunn’s physical conditioning and reputation than any of us do.
Um…why would he know that? Does he spend a lot of time in the Reds’ weight room? While GM’ing a team in far away Canada? A team that plays in the opposite league?
He probably knows about as much about Dunn as we do…meaning, nothing.
by mojowo11 on Jul 30, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder Mojo
if a gm doesn’t use scouts, and even private investigator’s to take a look before they give away 50 million dollars.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 30, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Was Riccardi looking into signing Dunn at some point?
Because otherwise the point is pretty moot.
Also, scoutsprivate investigators almost certainly can’t get into a team’s weight room and watch guys work out. Unless they’re invited, of course.
by mojowo11 on Jul 30, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
seems like he had money to invest awhile back.
believe he picked up BJ Ryan and another pitcher. Can’t recall. He as shopping the whole league.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 31, 2008 4:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His point was that
none of us know what his conditioning habits are, including Ricardi. Considering Ricardi spouted off non-sensical shit about Dunn not even liking baseball despite the fact that they’ve never met, I’d hardly hold him out has an all-knowing GM when it comes to specific players’ conditioning habits—particularly one in the opposite league.
by Ray Lankford on Jul 30, 2008 12:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
nothing spells vindication like a blurb in SI.com that rehashes old crap we knew about already…
just because there’s an ill-informed perception that adam dunn is “fat and lazy” doesn’t mean it’s true, or that anyone in his right mind would say that to the dude’s face.
by baw on Jul 30, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying that I would tell him that to his face,
but the quote is actually SI quoting J.P. Riccardi. Apparently Riccardi mentioned a perception league-wide that Dunn was soft.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 30, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, and then
he apologized for it later, because it was an asshat thing to say.
by baw on Jul 30, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't feel vindicated by something J.P. Ricciardi said
His catcher said he wanted a trade out of Toronto, and Ricciardi said something like “Someone would have to want you for us to trade you.” He’s turning into the dumbest GM in the game IMO
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 30, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
insulting but funny
it’s kinda endearing if you’re a crusty old earl weaver type. if you’re j.p. ricciardi, not so much.
by baw on Jul 30, 2008 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, good old Earl Weaver, the pride of Beaumont High School
That link requires a parental advisory sticker.
by random on Jul 30, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dunn
...Dunn is a soft, unmotivated player who doesn’t come through in the clutch."
Adam Dunn is choking in the clutch this year to the tune of a .259/.387/.600 line with RISP, and .242/.457/.818 line with 2 outs and RISP (that’s a 1.275 OPS, by the way). His career stats “in the clutch” are right in line with his overall numbers. So you feel vindicated, even though your quoted material noted that Ricciardi articulated these points in an embarrassing manner? I don’t get it.
by jdub176 on Jul 30, 2008 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks to me like "soft" means
not aggressive, as opposed to lazy.
by sdrone on Jul 30, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
The Reds would deal him, but none of the teams out there looking for outfield help seem to be interested
How do we get from that to this:
Negatives include his astronomical strikeout totals and the perception (articulated last month publicly and somewhat embarrassingly by Toronto GM J.P. Ricciardi) that Dunn is a soft, unmotivated player who doesn’t come through in the clutch."
without ever bringing up what the Reds want in return. Right now, he’s their best player offensively, and their team has actually looked really good. If he was so fat and lazy, as you and J.P. Ricciardi claim, wouldn’t they be trying to deal him for anything close to fair? Seriously, the dude has put up better numbers through the course of his career than nearly every big bat on the lineup, and it’s a well known fact around here that strikeouts really aren’t much worse than any other out, and sometimes they’re better. I’m guessing that they probably want more return for Dunn than Pittsburgh wants for Jason Bay, and they should, because he’s superior player to Bay and only 28 years old.
Bottom line, if the Cards could get Dunn for Brian Anderson and a pitching prospect I’d do it in a heartbeat.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 30, 2008 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a chance I'd do that.....
The last thing our lineup needs is a streaky, all or nothing type player. We need consistency.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 30, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
joe baiting
"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda" - Rev. Jerry Falwell
by elirock83 on Jul 30, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope that's sarcasm...
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 30, 2008 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to add 40 HR each year like clockwork
Seriously, 40 HR and .381 OBP? Would look mighty nice hitting either in front of or behind Pujols. Please tell me you are a C. Duncan fan . . .
by Ray Lankford on Jul 30, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dave Kingman was an "all or nothing type player"
Adam Dunn has a career .381 OBP. 100 walks a year doesn’t amount to “nothing.”
by jdub176 on Jul 30, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't mean he's a good fit for OUR lineup.....
Sure, if we had more consistent guys than Ankiel and Ludwick…..and didn’t have the terrible hitting MI that we do, Dunn would be fine. But we don’t have those things. You plug Dunn into our lineup, and we aren’t much, if any, better.
If he’s so great, how come no other teams want him? How come Cincy is somewhat eager to move him?
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 30, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cincy
The trade has been rumored but not completed. That tells me they aren’t looking to deal him or that they’re asking a high price for him, which nobody at this time wants to pay. I’d be shocked if they took Anderson and a pitcher for him. Cincy has some good young outfield talent and a good, young first baseman in Votto, so Dunn is a guy they can move. Griffey at this point has no trade value to them except as a salary dump to get him off of their books. Dunn is one of the few veteran players they have that has any type of trade value so they’re looking at what the options are an what other teams are going to give up. It’s not like the Braves, who literally told the entire world they were trading Teixeira and would accept any offer.
While it’s true that he may not fit into our outfield next year, adding him this season would have to boost the offense. He’d replace Skip in left, without much worse defense than we’ve gotten from Duncan, and hit behind Albert with his high slugging ability and his ability to get on-base in front of Glaus and Ankiel. If you could get him for Anderson, a catching prospect you don’t necessarily need, and a minor league pitcher like Boggs or Mortenson, I think you have to make that deal.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 30, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because he won't resign in Cincy
and if some team wants him, they can wait until the off-season and sign him for cash (no prospects).
What contending teams need him?
Arizona? Maybe.
Los Angeles (plural)? No.
Chicago (plural)? No.
St. Louis? No.
Boston? Maybe, if they move Manny.
Tampa? Maybe.
New York? No.
Maybe old Walter is being a pain to deal with since he knows most teams have him over the barrell with Griffey and Dunn.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 30, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sign for cash, yes
But wouldn’t we have to give up draft picks if we waited and got him as a Free Agent?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 30, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not if he is offered arbitration and declines it
Then we would have to give up our first round pick and they would also get a supplement pick, Type A
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 30, 2008 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup
and we’d receive draft picks if we traded for him and then didn’t sign him.
So I guess I’d rather trade for him (depending on the cost) and take a shot at the playoffs and then have 2 sandwich picks and two possible first round picks in the 2009 draft.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 30, 2008 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NO!
The team that loses a FA gets compensatory draft picks… but the team that signs the FA doesn’t lose picks! The compensatory picks come following the first round, and prior to the 2nd round.
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on Jul 30, 2008 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes they lose picks
unless it is in the top 15…in that case it is protected and they lose their second round pick. Barring a protected pick, the team that signs him will lose their 1st round draft pick and we receive that pick and a supplemental round pick
It’s been part of the CBA since free-agency was instituted in 1977.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 30, 2008 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My bad....
I’d forgotten clubs lose their second-round pick.
I sit corrected!
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on Jul 30, 2008 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he's a type B
we receive supplemental pick and the other team doesn’t lose any picks. This was modified in the last CBA that was negoatiated. Before that each time a team lost a free agent to another team they were awarded with that team’s pick in the first round.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 30, 2008 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the dunn trade talk
has been going on for a looooong time. it doesn’t mean he’s a bad player. good, even great, players get traded too, you know.
if mark teixeira is so good, why’d the braves trade him?
adam dunn has more home runs AND walks than anyone in the majors since 2004, and you think our lineup is unimproved by adding him???
i’m not saying he’s even a consideration for us, but that is just blind, flawed, “consistency”-loving reasoning.
by baw on Jul 30, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he would be nice protection for Pujols
and he’s a great player… but we just have too many outfielders right now.
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but
we have some very average outfielders who are commanding playing time (schu, DUNCAN!, mather). no way i’d play any of them over a guy with a .380 obp and 40 homers and 100 walks. seriously, that is almost bondsian, he just strikes out a bunch.
by lopey986 on Jul 30, 2008 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I’d much rather have him than Jason Bay!
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not completely sold
I think if salaries/control and defense is figured into the equation, I am not sure if Dunn is automatically the superior option. I personally would prefer a platoon of Dunc/Mather or Schu/Mather over Dunn considering our other needs. Paying Dunn means that we won’t have as much money elsewhere. This is not even taking into account what we would have to give up to get Dunn if not through FA. Also, I think Mather’s potential could be high, and I would love to see him for a season if in the bigs.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Jul 30, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice post RB...
Great questions for discussion, and I have to agree on the state of Cardinal fandom. Just enjoy the ride, and don’t worry about where it’s taking you. As for your questions…
Carp IMO will have a slightly better line than what you give him going 6.2 with 1 ER, 2 H, 3 BB, and 5K’s…he’ll also get his first W in 20+ months, right?
I’m really still interested in Rhodes from Seattle…I don’t think it would take much to get him, and he’s been REALLY good this year on a bad team. Moving Lohse is part two of this answer, and my answer to question three.
Lastly…why is AZ trying to extend Haren right now? He’s signed cheaply through 2010 I believe. This kinda reminds me of the unnecessary Carpenter extension that probably cost the cards 10’s of millions. Pitchers are simply too high risk for injury to sign long term.
by cardzfanbub on Jul 30, 2008 10:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
To add to the Lohse issue...
I don’t think we make the playoffs without significant contributions from Carp and WW in the starting rotation. If these two guys are pitching up to form we have significant depth in the rotation and one of Looper, Piniero or Lohse needs to go. Maybe it would be best to move Piniero and his 2009 salary burden, but Lohse is obviously the most attractive piece – who will bring the biggest return, and IMO is ripe for regression.
I would also be open to seeing what we could get for Skip…
by cardzfanbub on Jul 30, 2008 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'd say
those guys don’t really have to go. Looper or welley can go to the pen for the rest of the year if the team needs room in the rotation. they can deal piniero in the winter. my question is what type of free agent lohse is. do the cards get draft picks for him if he walks? Either way i’d like him to stay. seems like a small price to pay for a shot at the playoffs.
by spencegrif on Jul 30, 2008 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't get why everyone keeps bringing up trading Lohse
you know the Cards aren’t going to do that. unless maybe they clear waivers after deadline, and they fall out of the race quickly. don’t see that happening though.
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they'd be dumb
not to consider it. i can’t see them offering lohse the huge contract you know someone will throw at him in the offseason. hell, the a’s got the phillies 2 and 4th best prospects for joe friggin blanton. think of what lohse could command.
by lopey986 on Jul 30, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not so sure that perception of Lohse have changed that drastically since the beginning of the season
no one signed him then, and he’s not exactly a lights out rental who you’d give up prospects for. plus he seems to be one of the main stabilizers on our team.
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to see
a move for Burnett. He leads the A.L. in strikeouts, and we can use somebody like that. I would hang onto Lohse and take the pick(s) at the end of the season. The fans deserve a contender, and trading away your temporary ace is not a good way to ensure one.
I would also like to see a LOOGy who can close. I think that means George Sherrill or Brian Fuentes. Does the front office even have the stones to do it?
by Red in Chicago on Jul 30, 2008 10:27 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd love Burnett too
if he’d agree to waive his opt -out clause. I think improving the starting rotation is a great way to improve the bullpen, in that Looper and the Colonel could be great out of the pen. Plus, we have to make up ground against two very very good teams. Throwing four starters out there (Carp, Waino, Burnett, and Lohse) who give the team a chance to win each time out (and who can sometimes take over games) gives us a better chance to catch the Cubs and Brewers.
by Ray Lankford on Jul 30, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hahaa
yeah. you know now that i think about it, i suppose the team could find some room for a guy leading the league in strikeouts. maybe they can throw him in as a closer.
by spencegrif on Jul 30, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel largely the same way
I pretty much agree with your sentiments re: the current state of the club. Sadly, the gut-wrenching part of this post is what haunts us:
“Even just a competent bullpen, an average bullpen, would have the Cardinals sitting in first place right now.”
Still, what are you gonna do at this point?
Prediction for Carp:
5 IP, 4 ER, 3 BBs, 4 Ks, 82 pitches. I’m also gonna predict a L because I’m sensing some questionable lineup calls, a solid outing from Jurrjens, and we also spent most of our runs in the last 2 games.
For a move I’d like to see:
Arthur Rhodes, SEA. Probably wouldn’t cost much, he’s pretty solid, and fits the bill. I just think they’d end up overpaying for a sexier name, so I’d rather get Rhodes. After typing that, I see cardzfanbub and I agree.
Lohse:
Keep him, even if Carp throws a CG no-no. However, I would move Lohse for a solid MI prospect who seems fairly close, but this business of trading guys for guys who will fill a similar role doesn’t make sense to me when you consider the draft pick compensation we’ll get if he leaves at the end of the year.
Having said all that, the smart money says we do nothing.
by goodymobb on Jul 30, 2008 10:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well.....
To answer your questions first:
1. I expect about the same as you predicted for Carp. I think he’ll miss with some pitches, but I think hist stuff will be good enough to keep the Braves from doing too much damage. Would love to see him get through 5-6 innings, allowing only 2-3 ER’s.
2. Let me start by saying the one guy I expect us to land is Grabow. Not sure why, just a gut feeling. Seems that Pitt is really trying to move him, and I think we’re probably the most aggressive suiter. Probably one of the cheaper reliever options at this point. If I had my choice of who to land? Hmm…..I’m not really sure. I still think our lineup could use a boost, but I don’t see many legit options. I really think Roberts would have helped, but I guess he isn’t moving. Halladay and Burnett appear to be longshots as well. I’m not a huge fan of Fuentes, just b/c of his contract status, and Sherrill hasn’t pitched very well of late. That said, I guess I’ll still stay Sherrill as the one guy I’d hope we would get, if the price isn’t ridiculous.
3. I don’t think I’d try to move him, especially if we don’t go get a Halladay/Burnett type starter. Let him walk if we don’t resign him, and take the draft picks (hopefully he’ll be a type A or B). That said, I would shop him, I’d just want a ton back. If somebody wants to overpay, we’d be hard pressed to say no. I’d want at least one nearly can’t miss player back in that deal though.
Hopefully the team will keep hitting, as that takes alot of stress off the staff. I really think we need to find a way to sweep the Braves. We’ve got some tough sledding coming up, so we really need to win all the games against the weaker teams that we can.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 30, 2008 10:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree w/ your reasoning on keeping Lohse
I mean, the A’s got the Phils’ #2 and #4 prospects, one of whom was a MI. IMO, any team interested in acquiring Lohse needs to START the bidding with a package like that.
Our homegrown MIs aren’t likely to become perennial All-stars (not to mention our current MIs are horrible), so any dealwhere we’re “selling high” needs to be built around improving our MI.
by goodymobb on Jul 30, 2008 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
* for Blanton
The A’s got the Phils’ 2/4 prospects for Joe effin’ Blanton. Lohse had the numbers to be an All-star.
by goodymobb on Jul 30, 2008 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blanton
is still under team control for another 2 years? or 1 year? Not sure but Lohse is a FA at the end of the year. Need to take that into account.
by njnick on Jul 30, 2008 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Also, Lohse did not have the numbers to be an All-Star.
by mojowo11 on Jul 30, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't aware of Blanton's contract ...
and forgot to factor that into things. Still, while it definitely plays into things (although we still aren’t sure if it’s 1 or 2 more yrs), a guy who is 12-3 with an ERA of 3.68 and a WHIP of 1.27 sounds like the type of pitcher a contender might want, no?
And mojo, how can you really say that Lohse didn’t have the #s to be an All-star? Pre-break (i.e., when they make these sorts of decisions) he was 11-2 with a 3.30 ERA with about a 2:1 K/BB rate in nearly 120 IP. So he was eating innings (about 6 innings/start) and generally having success when he went out there.
I’m not saying he should’ve been on there over anyone in particular, but like lots of guys every year, his #s warranted consideration. Would there have been some huge outrage had he been chosen? Certainly not.
by goodymobb on Jul 30, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lohse shoulda been an all star
if it wasn’t the cubs vs sawks as game, he would have been there
"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda" - Rev. Jerry Falwell
by elirock83 on Jul 30, 2008 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CARP!! CARP!! CARP!! CARP!! PREDICTION!!
6 IP, 2 ER, 4 H, 4 BB, 5 K, 90 pitches, no decision
6 IP is maybe a little optimistic, especially if he’s still wild like he was in his rehab starts. But I don’t think they’ll hit him hard, and he’ll have a decent number of Ks. We’ve got to face another very good Atlanta starter, so I’ll half-assedly guess no decision for Carp, and hopefully we hit their bullpen hard again. (According to the baseball blog at Yahoo Sports, last night “the Cards broke it open when Atlanta brought in a spectator from section 121 to pitch the ninth.” heh…)
by BTown Birds fan on Jul 30, 2008 10:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
CARP PREDICTION
3 IP, 4 ER, 4 H, 3 BB, 2HB, 2K, 78 PITCHES AND GETS THE LOSS
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 10:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Prediction
4 IP 3 ER 3 H 5 BB 2 K 82 pitches ND
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 30, 2008 10:35 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thoughts
Carp Prediction: I think it is going to be a little uglier. About 4 innings and about 5 runs. But, if he feels good after the game, it is a success.
On deadline moves.
1. Trade Lohse. Why don’t we sell high? If we have all resigned ourselves to a “whatever happens” attitude this year, why not get something for an asset we know will be gone at the end of the season? I would trade Lohse for that SS prospect we all want so bad.
2. Somebody for the bullpen. I know we have won 2 games in a row, but the bullpen has not resolved itself. I don’t even care that much whether the bullpen pitcher we get is any good, I just want them to get one for the sake of getting one to let the team and fans know that the front office cares. It shouldn’t cost us much.
3. The John Jay promotion might be related to a possible trade. It is a talking point for the media and team in the new city. I wouldn’t mind keeping Jay around, but I find it an odd coincidence that he was promoted so close to the deadline and is one of our mid-level trading chips.
by Egyptian on Jul 30, 2008 10:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wasn't the promotion just part of
a bunch of promotions/demotions that were made in the last week? Isn’t that just a routine thing this time of year?
by Red in Chicago on Jul 30, 2008 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much
There was a slew of moves made.
by saladdays on Jul 30, 2008 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure, it could be just a normal promotion.
Jay has certainly earned it, but I do find it a little odd. He could have been promoted earlier in the year or they could have let him have a full season at AA (I don’t think anyone believes he will be on the roster coming out of Spring Training next year, so he is going to get Memphis time anyway).
The timing on this one could be nothing … or it could be something. He just seems the kind of minor league prospect you give up for a decent MLB middle reliever.
by Egyptian on Jul 30, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that he would be a decent prospect in a trade
I just don’t know why promoting him now makes any more sense than leaving him in Springfield trade-wise. If he’s traded, he’ll only have maybe a game or two in Memphis.
by saladdays on Jul 30, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The promotion.....
Is likely due to Rasmus being out, both Mather and Stavinoh being called up, and Robinson (AAA right?) being put on the DL.
Not saying he didn’t deserve it, but I doubt it has anything to do with a trade.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 30, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this was my thought as well
last I checked, even before Stavi’s promotion, the Redbirds were playing Uncle Rico in LF do to a lack of healthy OF
by vances law on Jul 30, 2008 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uncle Rico!!
That’s a name that hasn’t come up in awhile…is he still clogging up a space on the 40 man roster?
by tbell61 on Jul 30, 2008 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What kind of an assclown makes linescore predictions on a pitcher?
You, apparently.
by Desipio on Jul 30, 2008 10:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What kind of person makes an ass out of himself on the internet?
You, apparently.
by saladdays on Jul 30, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
troll
member at BCB since 2006
"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."
by BigMOman on Jul 30, 2008 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I must have missed him
But I guess he still does make an ass out of himself then
by saladdays on Jul 30, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it says he's never posted before
but he’s been a member since Sept. 2006 at BCB.
"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."
by BigMOman on Jul 30, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So he waited two years
for that?
Lol.
Well played sir, well played.
by Harknights on Jul 30, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he didn't even use
all the clever english tricks from last nights game thread! if you’re planning your first post for two years, i would have at least expected a witty pun…
by barry whiteteeth on Jul 30, 2008 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just read his personal page
He just wants to get a rise out of people.
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd usually ignore this anywhere else
But I think on VEB we all hold each other to a higher (more civilized) standard on all posts. I’ll talk to cub fans about baseball any day, I’ll talk to anyone who watched baseball about baseball but whenever you insult someone on the topic on baseball I really think it shows ignorance on the subject. I’d push for Larry or one of the other mods to deal with Desipio in any way possible or atleast let SB Nation know. And also I’d want someone to look into “Hoofheart-Pujols” who posted his Carpenter prediction above. I don’t mind someone predicting a loss for him but he typed it in all caps, gave him a horrible line and has a some what offensive name to pujols. Maybe I’m over stepping all of this, you guys can decide. I just offer my two cents.
I''m a Jenius!
If Adam Kennedy can make a MLB roster, anyone can!
by gibbons on Jul 30, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hoofheart-Pujols
Despite his ever changing, super obscure name, has been around for a bit.
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Jul 30, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats fine then
It could’ve easily been a mistake with the caps and I respect that he doesn’t think Carp will do well. If that is the case I offer my apology to hoof and I hope he understands how I could get the wrong message, especially with the influx of trolling problems lately.
I''m a Jenius!
If Adam Kennedy can make a MLB roster, anyone can!
by gibbons on Jul 30, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry about the caps
I am a huge Cardinal fan and would hope that is protrayed by my posts and my knowledge of the team.
I wish the best for Carp and the statline I put up is just trying to be realistic. If he comes out of the gamefeeling good then I am happy, even if we lose the game and he isn’t at his best. It has been a long time and realisticly he shouldn’t be pitching in the bigs for about another 10 days. Jurgens is a pretty good pitcher so there is a chance we lose tonight. Carp is an amazing pitcher and he WILL be good again. I just don’t want to put false hope up.
As for my name it isn’t a knock on Pujols. I’m just not a very clever guy and was trying to be. If anyone feels it to be offensive I will change it. Not a big deal to me at all. I enjoy this blog very much and wouldn’t want anyone else to think anything different.
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
er protrayed=portrayed
stupid 5th grade spelling bee
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not a problem with me then
Just a misunderstanding. However my thoughts on Desipio remain unchanged. His senseless bashing on RB really gets under my skin.
I''m a Jenius!
If Adam Kennedy can make a MLB roster, anyone can!
by gibbons on Jul 30, 2008 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is he the same guy as
“hoofhearted,pujols?” ? (the one I’m thinking of has a question mark in his user name
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 30, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
I am one in the same. SB nation recommended me changing my screen name because with the comma and question mark I couldn’t have access to my user page. That’s all.
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gotcha
That’s weird, I kinda liked the comma and question mark
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 30, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah me too
It is also my golden tee name
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you really want a guy reprimanded for disagreeing with you??
i fully agree with dealing with the troll. but taking offense to someone predicting a loss for a pitcher who hasnt seen the mound in a 16 months? its just baseball.
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jul 30, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank You
16 months is a long time, and considering this should still be a rehab start I am just being realistic. The plus to tonight is Carp is facing a AAA lineup for the most part. Hopefully he keeps working on what he needs to and doesn’t think he has to do anything above and beyond.
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I did not base my reasoning on solely that
I listed three reasons why I was suspicious and as you’ll see above, all is cleared up. I merely wanted to know more. I even said predicting a loss is fine but with the caps and another troll on the board and seeing his unfamiliar (to me) name it all just mad me suspicious, that’s all.
I''m a Jenius!
If Adam Kennedy can make a MLB roster, anyone can!
by gibbons on Jul 30, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's with the hostility? THis isn't a yahoo message board.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on Jul 30, 2008 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Being the SuperJinx I am
I’ll refrain from predicting Carp’s performance tonight.
Trade I’d like most to see…. Getting a LOOGY…. from the American League (Toronto has a few).
Keep Loshe.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 30, 2008 10:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lohse Trade
Seems to me that unless the Cards are going to commit themselves as sellers and move the likes of Ludwick and others in addition to Lohse, the Cards aught to hang on to Kyle.
There is one exception however. If the Cards can dump Lohse to add prospects that can in turn be used to add another useful player, like Jason Bay or Roy Halladay.
by JMedwick on Jul 30, 2008 10:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It seems like there just aren't that many serious buyers
of pitching rentals right now. I guess the Mets could pop up. But why would we want to help them make a run at the postseason? The Yankees just cheaped out on Washburn. Obviously the Pirates have no need for Lohse. The contending teams, for the most part, seem to need hitting and relievers, not starters.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 30, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That seems so weird
a top-of-the-rotation pitcher having a career year… and no buyers at the trade deadline? This mystifies me.
"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."
by BigMOman on Jul 30, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well in the post-season
You really only need 3 starters of course and most teams in serious contention for their division or wildcard have a pretty good (consistent) top 3. The only real exception is our Cardinals.
I''m a Jenius!
If Adam Kennedy can make a MLB roster, anyone can!
by gibbons on Jul 30, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the Marlins
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW
from the rehab starts, what was Carps velocity like?
by JMedwick on Jul 30, 2008 10:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He was between 88 and 92
IIRC. Maybe touched 94 once.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 30, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carp
5IP, 1ER, 2H, 4BB, 4K, 86 pitches
On questions three, what happens if we DO trade Lohse and somehow end up making the playoffs. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot! I say keep him, since we’ll get something out of him at the end of the year (If he’s Type A)
"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."
by BigMOman on Jul 30, 2008 10:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How likely will he be Type A?
I really don’t know.
by saladdays on Jul 30, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
By my estimation
Likely based on the NL and AL Elias rankings. A seemingly tremendous amount of Type As are having injury/brutal seasons. Wang, Bedard, Escobar, Schilling, Blanton, Smoltz, Harang, Penny, Hudson, Lilly, Zito, Young, Glavine, Willis, Chuck James (Chuck James??) are all guaranteed not to be Type As. Lohse has racked up an awesome winning percentage and a good ERA which Elias likes so I’d venture to say if he maintains those he’ll be an A.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jul 30, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just An Update
It was good to see Chris Young back on the mound last night. It was the First time he pitched since Pujols hit the line drive off his face. He really pitched well going 5 innings allowing 0 runs and striking out 8.
I would imagine Pujols would be happy to hear that. Injuries like that can end up much worse. Glad this one seemed to be alright after a couple months of rest and reconstruction of the nasal passage.
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 10:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I meant to ask this a while back.....
But why was he out so long? I know it looked pretty bad at the time, but I thought afterwards they said it was just a cut that needed some stitches. Guess it was worse?
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 30, 2008 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rub some dirt on it!
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 30, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glad to see that too
At the time I was more concerned about how he would react next time on the mound a la Matt Clement, thinking every pitch was going to get hit back at his face again.
Pujols makes a lot of pitchers go through pain but they always seem to come out better players for it; Chris Young with the line drive, Brad Lidge with the infamous blown save, etc.
What about Josh Bard?
I''m a Jenius!
If Adam Kennedy can make a MLB roster, anyone can!
by gibbons on Jul 30, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know about Bard
That was one of the craziest half innings of baseball I have ever seen. It isn’t very often that one mang puts the pitcher and the catcher on the DL in the same inning on two different plays.
Hope Bard is alright also!
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't really concerned about how he would react
the next time he was on the mound. That dude is just plain ass tough. I still think he was a little PO’d they took him out of the game. The look on his face after that happened just added a little bit to the reasoning I want him playing for the Cards someday.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 30, 2008 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was super awesome. He's kind of a neat guy anyway....
He’s so darn tall, you’d think any ball that came back at him would hit him in the gut.
One of my boys had a hit in the face experience in high school. Broken nose, severe contusions on his right cheek and 7 broken teeth. He was more worried about making his summer team than when would he have the nasal surgery. The team held a spot for him until June 1-he made it back on May 29. The second pitch he threw was a soft grounder right back at him, which he fielded cleanly and triumphantly and tagged the runner going down the line. He looked over at me with a wicked grin-”See, I told you I’m not scared.” He’s a math kid and figured the odds of it ever happening again were close to zero. It’s the only injury (except a finger blister) he ever got on a baseball field-he’s 21 now and plays DII, and has played since he was 6.
The odd thing is that the kid who hit my son barely hit over .200 that season…....always wondered if it was related or if he just wasn’t good enough for the next level.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 30, 2008 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that wasn't a line drive
or the dude would not be playing baseball again
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed.....Pujols did not hit a true line drive at Young, it was hard to describe but not close to those
frozen ropes albert hits
by ICbirdfan on Jul 30, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he basically hit it off the smaller part of the bat and not the big end
or else that guy would be dead imho
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think you are right,
Young was lucky in that respect. Not lucky to get hit in the face, of course, just lucky that the ball didn’t come off of Albert’s bat full force.
by cardsgirl95 on Jul 30, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
that could have been disastrous, it’s bad enough as it is…
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of line drives to the face....any update on Juan Encarnacion?
He wan’t stellar for us, and we now have plenty of outfielders, but I was wondering if he is recovering enough to ever play again?
40th anniversary of Gibson's 1.12 ERA, Think he could pitch in the bullpen now?
by Podlol on Jul 30, 2008 11:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe so
It’s been a while since the last report, but I would suspect that any good news would have been reported on by now.
by saladdays on Jul 30, 2008 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sept. 5, 2007 from ESPN
“He’s still dealing with post-concussion syndrome,” team trainer Barry Weinberg said, according to the Post-Dispatch. “Even though his eye is the major long-term concern, right now he’s dealing with a serious concussion. ... He still has those side effects. The combination of the eye and the concussion … is significant.”
The Cardinals’ team physician, Dr. George Paletta, said Sunday the injuries were “the worst trauma I’ve ever seen” and was not optimistic Sunday that Encarnacion, 31, will regain full vision and resume his career.
Paletta said the eye socket was essentially crushed on impact, comparing the injured area to the disintegration of an egg shell or ice cream cone, and that the optic nerve had sustained severe trauma.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 30, 2008 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Our favorite moonlighting star
perhaps, Mr Sparkle.
(God I love that avatar.)
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Jul 30, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A documentary
about Jason Marquis
I''m a Jenius!
If Adam Kennedy can make a MLB roster, anyone can!
by gibbons on Jul 30, 2008 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i believe the reference is actually to sybil
http://www.amazon.com/Sybil-Flora-Rheta-Schreiber/dp/0446359408/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1217445805&sr=8-2
by sdesserman on Jul 30, 2008 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Shoot.
Used the C spelling instead of the S. Sorry, everybody. Need to pay more attention while I’m writing.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 30, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll be the strikeout optimist
5 IP 1 ER 2 H (1 HR) 2 BB 8 Ks 90 pitches
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jul 30, 2008 11:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Redbaron aka RB
Should have had a prediction about how many game threads will be needed tonight…. I could sense quite a bit of chatter tonight if Carp goes fairly deep and the Cards keep the scoring up like the past two games
by ICbirdfan on Jul 30, 2008 11:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
depends on
How many comments are allowed in each thread, I’d say 3-4 though.
I''m a Jenius!
If Adam Kennedy can make a MLB roster, anyone can!
by gibbons on Jul 30, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My Carp Prediction
6 IP, 2 ER, 6 H, 1 BB, 4 Ks, 86 pitches, W
I''m a Jenius!
If Adam Kennedy can make a MLB roster, anyone can!
by gibbons on Jul 30, 2008 11:26 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Carp
5 1/3 IP, 3 ER, 6 H, 3 BB, 3 Ks, 88 pitches
by Ray Lankford on Jul 30, 2008 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Carp Prediction
1/3 innings pitched, 1 strikeout, 2 bb’s, leaves with discomfort in his….......Oh wait, that was Mulder, I’ll just wait and see what happens with Carp
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
not funny!!!
:-( I don’t think I can take that again. At least not with Carp
"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."
by BigMOman on Jul 30, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha... if you use the >
it makes everything look like quotes. It was supposed to be an angry face!
"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."
by BigMOman on Jul 30, 2008 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
The good news is it seemed like we were trying to suck the last bit of worth out of Mulder where I think Carp has had his rehab go according to plan (or as close to according to plan as an injury like this can be).
He should be fine, not what we are used to seeing from Carp, but on his way back, unlike Mulder, who seemed to be on his way out.
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hold on to Loshe
The Cards are not going to be true sellers so let’s not go halfway. If Loshe walks after this season, he’s likely to be Type A free agent netting us a 1st and a sandwich. That is a pretty darn good return. And Carp, Wainwright, Loshe are a very solid top of the rotation for us to make a run at the playoffs. Wouldn’t shock me if the Cubs got hit with a raft of injuries right at crunch time at the end of the season while we’re still hanging around. We have a real shot at the playoffs.
And why is no one talking about the lift it will give to the pen to move Wellemeyer back there? The guy was a stud out the pen for us. With Carp and Waino back, it makes sense to shore up the pen moving Welly back there.
by jjray on Jul 30, 2008 11:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree with that
If Lohse goes, you might as well get rid of Ludwick and a bullpen guy to get an Oakland like haul.
I’m not a fan of that idea since we’re only 1 game out of the wild card and have the third best record in the national league. I’m not sure how the world of cards fans (including myself) would react to selling while we’re this close.
by birdo rojo on Jul 30, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why wouldn't it shock you
if the Cubs got injured? Just because they’re the Cubs or you think their team is injury-prone? Serious question, not trying to be an ass.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 30, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They do seem
to have a lot of injury prone players on their roster. Soriano, Harden, Wood, Edmonds, and Dempster have all been injured fairly frequently during their careers (Dempster not so much lately, but he was hurt often as a starter when he was with Florida). Not that the Cardinals don’t have any guys like that, but that wasn’t the question that was asked.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 30, 2008 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gosh, but their depth is soooo good
that the seem to be able to cover just about any injury. They have 2 good back-of-the bullpenners, 2 ace pitchers, and a lineup that is 6 or 7 bats deep. They have had a few injuries, and have missed very few beats.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 30, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As much as I love me some prospects...
I think that you hang on to Lohse too unless someone just makes a stupid offer. Leave the gun, take the draft picks.
by mikedallas45 on Jul 30, 2008 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mmmmmm.... cannoli....
i’d keep lohse for now, unless somebody makes us an offer we can’t refuse…
by mattybobo on Jul 30, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice read Baron
You pay a pitcher for a seasons service. 4.5 ain’t bad. You got a deal, that ain’t bad. When you try to sell high your run into problems. Contending teams don’t trade player. Most contending teams are low on prospects, thats often why they’re there. Getting a player with a reputations means taking on salary. I think you know the answer to that. You could trade him for cash to pay on your village notes. All risky. Any team looking without the above would want an extension guarantee, Boris. Its time to just play ball probably. Phillies would give you their number 1 and 3 for him, but that would all but exclude you from the wild card. .............. Wellenmyer should be shut down. He is hurting.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 30, 2008 11:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's Scott Boras...
not Boris.
If you’re dealing Lohse, you’re looking for prospects, not a veteran player with a big contract. Some contending teams are without prospects, but there are a few that have some good prospects and could be looking for an upgrade to their rotation right now.
Florida would be one team that is flush with prospects due to dealing away veteran talent, they have a couple of holes in their rotation, play in a big ballpark, and have a legit shot at the wild card.
The Dodgers are another team that could use a shot in the arm, and it looks like they may be willing to move Andy Laroche or someone like that for a pitcher. I just don’t think you’re going to get Hu, which is who I would want in that trade.
Texas isn’t too far out of the wild card and could use a pitcher—they have some decent prospects in the middle infield, including Elvis Andrus who they got in the Teixeira trade last season.
There are options out there, I’m just not sure any are better than waiting it out to the end of the year and getting some picks for him.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 30, 2008 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks Fourstick for the spell check.
Its on this paper weight right in front of me. I agree I need to take more time examining my offerings. E-mail your suggestion to Mo.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 30, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
About the picks
As I understand it, if Lohse will be a type A we get 2 first round picks; that is the first round pick from th eteam he signs with and a suppl first round pick. What happens if the team he signs with has a protected first round pick? Would the pick then become a suppl first round pick? And is it possibe for a team to have more than one first round pick? And more than one suppl first round pick? Does anybody know where to find this stuff?
by Woodwork on Jul 30, 2008 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
You just get that team’s second round pick instead, although I admit to not being a guru here.
by mojowo11 on Jul 30, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is correct
In addition, if a team signs more than one Type A then the picks are doled out based on which player has the higher Elias ranking. So let’s say the Nats sign two type A’s. Their 1st round pick is protected because they suck and their pick is in the top 15. Their 2nd round pick would go to the team losing the higher ranked player, and their 3rd round pick would go to the other team.
by mikedallas45 on Jul 30, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I voted for the trade,
but thinking about it there are maybe four teams that make sense…both NY teams, Florida and the Phillies (though they’ve already added Blanton). If we trade him to the Mets, Phils or the fish we may be shooting ourselves in the foot – as he’d give all three teams a push for the Wildcard. I guess I’d only want to trade to a non-NL contender. I would consider LA…as I don’t think they’ll contend for the WC.
by cardzfanbub on Jul 30, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
here's to carp tonight
can’t wait to see the reactions at the BCB’s
talking about the brewers-cubs series, i was wondering how you all would prefer the series to end? i was thinking cubs the first two, then brewers in the next two so we could gain a few games on first place (assuming we win tonight and tomorrow).
by barry whiteteeth on Jul 30, 2008 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If we sweep
which I think we have a good shot at, I don’t really care what happens in the cubs/brewers series. I hope we are within 2 of the the Cubs by the time we head to wrigley aug 8-10. It could set up to where we have both Waino and Carp pitching in that series.
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Per Strauss in the Post today . . .
looks like no Wainwright for the Cubs series.
General manager John Mozeliak estimated Wainwright’s rehab would begin in seven to 10 days, suggesting Aug. 5 as a target in pencil.
Such a timetable all but assures Wainwright won’t be available when the Cardinals play the Chicago Cubs on Aug. 8-10 at Wrigley Field.
by Rep the High Socks on Jul 30, 2008 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nuts
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been saying since he got hurt
the guy won’t be back until late August/Sept. 1. the injury was not something that heals up very quickly
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say tonight is the toughest game of the series
but the way the braves looked the first two games, as long as we put the ball into play it seems that they cannot do anything with it to get outs
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I feel like I'm working on the Manhatten Project
and today is the day we test the big bomb! I’m excited because we finally get to see the fruits of our labor. I have this feeling of impending doom because, well, we are about to set off the greatest natural disaster since Noah and the Ark.
That’s about how I feel about Carpenter’s start tonight. I’m pumped to see him again but nervous it’s going to all blow up in our face. Call it the ‘Mark Mulder’ effect.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 30, 2008 12:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mark Mulder Effect
I feel like I have had my heart broken to many times by shattered promises. I don’t want to put myself out there again but I also long for the hope of a better time. I want to believe, I really do but I don’t know if can anymore.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 30, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should patent that name
“The Mark Mulder Effect”
Similar to the SportsGuy’s Ewing Theory, except the complete opposite…lol
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 30, 2008 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually it'd be nearly the same in results
Good player can’t get it done. But the Mulder Effect has officially been born.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jul 30, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs looking at Ibanez?
per Ken Rosenthal:
The Cubs, trying to cover every angle in their quest to win their first World Series in 100 years, are discussing trades for a left-handed hitter, including Mariners outfielder Raul Ibanez.
Man, how pissed are their fans going to be if they don’t win it this year? They’re pulling out all the stops!
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 30, 2008 12:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yankee style
Yankees have been doing this for year and it hasn’t worked since 2000. Only difference is the Cubs don’t have as deep of pockets and if they don’t win soon the will be in a world of hurt. Probably take them, I don’t know, another 100 years to recover.
I kinda hope the Cards don’t do a thing and still find a way to take down the Cubs. That would be the ultimate slap in the face.
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's what I've been thinking
they still win without making any moves. that would smart a bit
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, do the Cubs realize that Ibanez isn't very good?
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 30, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just peices of the puzzle
not looking for world beaters anymore. Just some pop off the bench or a few starts against righties with bad stats against lefty batters
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not bad.........
He is better than Edmonds (who may not make it through the year due to injuries) and Koske in terms of pop…...
Ibanez is out OPS’ing Edmonds and Fukudome who are both LH batters…. Ibanez would be a good addition.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 30, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
a change to Wrigley can do wonders for a guy playing at Safeco
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder whose roster spot he'd take?
by tbell61 on Jul 30, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they would probably move one of their MI's to get him
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Ward
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Ibanez really that much better coming off the bench than Ward
that he’d be worth trading for?
by Tackle Box on Jul 30, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Problem with Ward......
1. Not very good defensively in the OF
2. He has been struggling a bit this year in the PH role.
I think with Ibanez you can PH him and not worry about him having to play a few innings in the OF. Also the Cubs have Soriano, who probably will need defensive replacement help in late innings of important games a long with Edmonds needing breathers and defensive help. Edmonds is not moving too well these days with the bum knee.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 30, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
IIRC
Ibanez is a butcher in the outfield too.
by njnick on Jul 30, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking that when writing this, but he still moves better than Darly Ward and Soriano can't go back on balls
by ICbirdfan on Jul 30, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get that he's better than Ward
but is he enough better to warrent Felix Pie + another prospect? That’s was mlbtraderumors is reporting. And considering the guy the M’s wanted from the Mets, doesn’t sound like he’s going to go too cheaply.
by Tackle Box on Jul 30, 2008 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what the asking price would be and if the cubs have the goods?
I assume they do (then again the M’s have been acting really strangely with Washburn). He’s a free agent after the year (might be a Type B), and he only makes 5.5 million.
He doens’t hit particularly great, but he gets on base at a decent clip and still hits the ball out of the yard which I assume would go up moving from SAFECO to Wrigley.
Although, Im not sure what befefit he brings the cubs. He’s at best a corner outfielder (mostly right field) and doesn’t provide the platoon help with Fukudome they are desparite for. He doesn’t hit lefties and his numbers when subbing are way below when starting. With Alfonso Soriano, Reed Johnson, Jim Edmonds, Daryle Ward, Kosuke Fukudome and even Mark DeRosa on the roster plus Raul Ibanez that would give them 4 corner outfielder-only guys, two centerfielders and two utility guys who play the outfield seems like a glut.
by Tackle Box on Jul 30, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Best Deadline deals (Wild Card Era)
Sports Illustrated was running a photo gallery of the best deadline deals of all time, Flipping through them one thing stood out. Of all the prospects given up for the returns very few became MLB players let alone super stars.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 30, 2008 1:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
another thing stood out for me
of the 22 players chosen as the “best” deadline acquisitions, only six played in a World Series the year they were acquired
by tdawg on Jul 30, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hang on to Lohse
but trade Skippy now!!! We don’t need him next year and his trade value will never be higher. Gotta be a good middle infield prospect out there we can trade him for.
Milt Thompson FTW!
by gossard56 on Jul 30, 2008 1:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Speaking of the outfield..
Strauss just wrote on his chat that the asking price for Jason Bay has dropped in the last 48 hours. Cards are in the mix and Colby Rasmus is not included in the talks. If we get Bay, who goes from the outfield? Is skippy in the deal?
by 10worldchamps on Jul 30, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if I were the Pirates
I would want Ludwick.
by Evilfrog on Jul 30, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
A 30 year old outfielder with 1 year left of team control, right? Why would the Pirates want that instead of Mather, Stavinoha, Jay, Jones, or Barton (is he even available for a trade with the dl?)
by Tackle Box on Jul 30, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
where do you get Ludwick only having one year of team control left?
he has three more years after this season before he’s eligible for free agency
by moser34 on Jul 30, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow
had no idea. Of course I did finish off that sentence with ”, right?” meaning I was asking a question since I wasn’t entirely positive. So to answer your question, I didn’t get it from anywhere.
by Tackle Box on Jul 30, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah he has never really been a regular before last season...
and spent most of his time in the minors. He is playing for $411K this year. Wasn’t even arb. eligible. Amazing….
by moser34 on Jul 30, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
i’ve been saying that for the past couple weeks. skippy doesn’t fit into our hopeful outfield of rasmus ankiel and ludwick next year. unless he is content with being a fourth outfielder.
by stlsportsfan06 on Jul 30, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I almost forgot what Carpenter's delivery looks like...
It seems like forever since I’ve seen him pitch; i wondered if the day would ever even come. I’m very excited to see Chris get back out there tonight. I, like most of you, do think he won’t be lights out tonight. But let’s be honest here….the morale boost he will provide with just his presence on the mound has got to do wonders for this team. To know that he will be taking the ball every 5 days releases so much off of the other 4 starters.
I think Carp goes 5 2/3 tonight giving up 3 runs on 5 hits, walking 2 and striking out 5.
As for Lohse, I think you have to entertain the idea of trading him. If someone is desperate and makes us a Blanton-like deal for him, then why not? While I love this team this year, I think 2009 is going to be much better. Why not get some great prospects for Lohse. He’s definitely at the high point of his entire career. If you can get a “cant miss” prospect and another decent prospect, why wouldn’t you do this deal? On the same token, if the right deal isn’t there, then don’t do it. We’ll get something for him from the team that signs him in the off season.
by hockeyno93 on Jul 30, 2008 1:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Bullpen
The cardinals aren’t the only team to have bullpen meltdowns. Sure, the bullpen is shaky, but the Cubs and Brewers have bullpen issues as well. They’ve both had notable bullpen meltdowns.
Its hard for me to swallow that with a +22 run differential, a “mediocre bullpen” would have the cards in first place. The cubs have greater than a +100 run differential and have allowed fewer runs. That’s a tough hill to climb via simply upgrading in the ‘pen.
by jordanR on Jul 30, 2008 1:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think that run differential would be a lot better
I don’t think we’d get to the 100 run differential of the Cubs with just a mediocre bullpen but they’ve allowed a lot of guys to touch home plate.
by birdo rojo on Jul 30, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think it's in
part the leading of the league in blown saves which i believe is up to 24? it’s not just the meltdowns but the timing.
by sdesserman on Jul 30, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This 1 year for Lohse is such a deal that we at least keep him a year
by bornin82 on Jul 30, 2008 1:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
But wouldn't it be that much sweeter of a deal
if we could parlay it into a good return?
by Ray Lankford on Jul 30, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
would a/b picks
be 2-3 years away? how about a guy that could play sooner and shore up a major weakness in the middle infield?
by UNCDubya on Jul 30, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It isn't that easy.....
If only 2-3 teams are legitimately interested in Lohse, they’d have to have a MI spect that was a) nearly ready, b) someone they’d be willing to move for Lohse, and c) someone the Cards liked. Hard to complete deals when you narrow down the return like that.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 30, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well lets trade for a 1B then
my only point is you could possibly get a MI who is closer to being MLB ready via a trade then via a draft pick.
by UNCDubya on Jul 30, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
parlays are always good
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who isn't?
Everybody likes parfaits!
Have you ever met a person, and you say, “Let’s get some parfait,” and they say, “Hell, no, I don’t like no parfait!”? Of course not.
Parfaits are delicious.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on Jul 30, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's like being in a bad mood on a Jet Ski!
just doesn’t happen.
by Tackle Box on Jul 30, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bay
MLB says the Cardinals are “lingering”.
I really don’t understand how this would help us much. Unless we could unload Skip/Duncan, and the plan going forward is to have an OF of Bay/Rasmus/and one of Ankiel/Ludwick. Or maybe if you get Bay, Rasmus becomes available. I dunno.
Thoughts?
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 30, 2008 2:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I still think they would try
to move Skip to 2B, Aaron Miles playing time be damned.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 30, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not until next season at the earliest
He hasn’t played second in like four years.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 30, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wishfull thinking I believe.....
I see Skip pitched in College (looks like he got shelled), and apparently he played 6 games for the AA Tennesse team in 2004. He had 14 chances and made two erros.
I don’t know if Skip has the ability to play a MLB 2B or not. I don’t know I guess there has not bee a deparate enough situation to try him there. I would have to think the Cards Organization does not want him in the infield for a good reason.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 30, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I agree they should convert him… but it will have to wait until the offseason
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He presents the same problem as Holliday
He’s a righthanded left fielder. He’s more expensive than Ludwick, but can’t play the other two positions. Bay would be a harder guy to platoon. I suppose if he’s paired up with Skip, and Ludwick does a double platoon: Ankiel/Ludwick; Rasmus/Ludwick, it might make sense. In any case, if Bay comes on board, Duncan is gone, as is Barton, IMHO.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 30, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bay throws like a 4 year old girl
I’ve yelled that from the bleachers on several occasions as he 8 hops one into second.
by azruavatar on Jul 30, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why would you platoon Bay?
He hits lefties and righties almost the same.
by saladdays on Jul 30, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, you don't have to platoon him
But we all know TLR loves to do that. We also know that Ludwick hits rights as well or better than lefts but it doesn’t stop Tony from swapping him for Schumaker.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 30, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Larussa would not platoon a proven player who hits RHP & LHP
by ICbirdfan on Jul 30, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay "platoon" is too strong
But ideally you want to be able to spell him with an opposite-handed hitter. I think it makes Schumaker more important and Ludwick less so. But Ludwick still has a lot of value in that he’s cheap, hits right and can partner with both Ankiel and Rasmus. The odd man out is probably Barton.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 30, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I understood you....
People say platoon a lot but don’t truely mean platoon…...
If you play 130+ games this day and age I hardly consider you a platoon player. I consider that a pretty regular player. You can play 130 games and only sit out 1 game a week. Now I consider you pretty much an everyday player if you are only missing 1 game a week.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 30, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt we get Bay...sounds like he might be going to Tampa
since they will have better prospects to trade with.
by KYCards on Jul 30, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
If we do a trade with a division rival, it’s going to be for a lesser-type player, like Grabow.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 30, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That, and the fact that
we don’t need another outfielder.
We need Middle Infield and Bullpen help!
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on Jul 30, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which one would think we would be trying to get Arthur Rhodes
but I haven’t seen any rumor that the Cards are interested…which is suprising.
by KYCards on Jul 30, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand that
Why wouldn’t getting Bay upgrade this offense? I like Skip and all, but Bay is a much better offensive player. Shouldn’t you upgrade the offense no matter what? Even if it isn’t through the MIF.
Of course if anyone could suggest an available MIF that has the offensive ability of Bay, I might be all for that.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 30, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PIT bugs me...
They have one of the most beautiful parks in MLB, a solid history, and a good (albeit fairly poor) city of fans and all they ever do is make head-scratching trades.
Granted, I wouldn’t be opposed to getting Bay (I wanted him a couple yrs ago when it was clear that all PIT was in MLB for was to supplement other teams’ rosters) if the move could somehow creatively clear up our glut of OFs, but still.
Ultimately, they trade ML-level players for peanuts over and over and over and over. I will never forgive them for hooking CHC up with Aramis (a fixture at a premium position), Lofton, and whoever that other dude was.
And now they trade a nice lefty and a solid outfielder to NYY for what?
by goodymobb on Jul 30, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You mean Randall Simon?
The guy that beat down the person running in the sausage race?
by saladdays on Jul 30, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
still love that
crack up everytime i see that video anywhere.
by lopey986 on Jul 30, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes yes yes
That was my tip-of-the-tongue phenomenon moment recently…....me and a bunch of buddies were talking baseball, that trade came up, yet no one could remember his name.
Thanks!
by goodymobb on Jul 30, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pirates have to compete
With the Steelers and the Penguins.
by Evilfrog on Jul 30, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they'll always be third in that race.
by Tackle Box on Jul 30, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know
The Penguins are hockey, I have to believe if the Pirates became great again they could overcome them. It used to be a great baseball town, no?
Agreed they have no chance of overcoming the Steelers.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 30, 2008 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pittsburgh and Detroit
are the exceptions in the U.S. Especially when the Penguins have Sydney Crosby.
by Tackle Box on Jul 30, 2008 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know for now
but they won’t always have Crosby
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 31, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This season...
The only thing that smarts about this season is the bullpen implosion. I can’t honestly complain about the record. I figured we’d be 20 game under .500 by now. But, I’ve been pretty calm all year, thinking we were playing for 2009 all season. The 11-10 loss to the Pirates is the only time this year I needed to take a walk before going to bed.
As for trades, I’d be willing to trade Lohse, Ludwick, or Skip, if the return was right. All 3 are probably at the highest value they every will be right now. But, power hittting outfielders, proven starting pitchers, lights out closers, or MVP shortstops don’t grow on trees.
by raisin1 on Jul 30, 2008 2:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Carp line
5IP, 2ER, 5H, 2BB, 4K, 82 pitches.
Cards jump on Jurrjens in the first for three runs, score two more in the sixth, end up winning 6-3.
Book it, yo.
by liam on Jul 30, 2008 3:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
almost as big a story of tonight as Carp's return is
to see if the offense can continue to score like they have lately. I think Carpenter will be a serviceable starter tonight, go 5, maybe 6 innings tops (depending on how many walks he issues, he might get away with not walking too many with this lineup). I a little more worried about the offense taking the night off after binging on runs the last two games
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Could Milwaukee's failure vs. the Cubs lead to another Brewer meltdown?
Yost last year lost his composure and may have lost the NL Central in the process. Now more trouble seems to be brewing in Milwaukee, according to the Brewer site on mlb.com today:
Parra was seething after his first loss since May 3 ended an eight-decision winning streak…. “I feel like I’m throwing the ball really well, six innings, seven innings and then a break here or there is the difference between what CC [Sabathia] and Ben [Sheets] are doing. They’re coming out of games on a good note versus being taken out of the inning, which I can’t stand,” he said.
Despite the boost to the Cubs and Brewers from their recent All-Star acquisitions, this season ain’t over ‘til it’s over, as 2006 showed us all.
by CardsWin on Jul 30, 2008 3:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
We have the 2nd best road record in ML
only LAA is better.
Cubs and Brewers are both ridiculous at home, and below .500 on the road.
I agree. It’s ain’t over yet.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2
by gocards62 on Jul 30, 2008 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chicago talk radio this morning
was joking about how Yost and Maddux just sat in the dugout watching their top 2 pitchers get smacked around, never even went out to talk to them.
by sdrone on Jul 30, 2008 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I predict
Carp will throw some pitches… some will be balls, some will be strikes. others may actually hit into play and out of play.
what I’m curious about is who gets removed from the 40-man roster to bring Carp back?
I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps.
by madding on Jul 30, 2008 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hard to go wrong with that prediction
Way to take a chance there. J/K!
by cardsgirl95 on Jul 30, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is a spot open
from the Reyes trade—Carp is filling that…
by moser34 on Jul 30, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
something about red baron's post...
makes me not worry about a thing. i have this feeling that every little thing is gonna be all right.
by mattybobo on Jul 30, 2008 3:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it's like he was
Singing sweet songs of melodies pure and true
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on Jul 30, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lineup guess for tonight.....
Skip CF
Mather LF
Pujols 1B
Ludwick RF
Glaus 3B
Molina C
Kennedy 2B
Carpenter P
Izturis SS
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 30, 2008 3:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kennedy made the line up!
Most have been that throw by Boogs.
by Evilfrog on Jul 30, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he made it in someone's guess lineup...
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
take what you can get...
That’s my philosophy.
by Evilfrog on Jul 30, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the idea of having a solid (with Rick out, as solid as can be) defense behind Carp, myself.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jul 30, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not that familar with Carpenter
But watching him pace the dugout last night makes me a fan. He is a competitor. He wants to contribute. His arm probably feels bionic strong with all the testosterone.
On the downside, this team hit poorly against good pitching. If he holds them under 3 through five, I would call that very successful. They have a good arm up. I hope we back him better than we did Welly. One way or another I hope Carp inspires his teammates to play better in his support.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 30, 2008 4:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
carp is super competitive
he gets that look in his eye and when he’s on, he’s fun to watch. it seems like ages ago that i got to see him pitch.
Rick Ankiel could throw out Chuck Norris. Easy.
by emrfg8 on Jul 30, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are we gonna go back to the crappy 13 pitcher deal?
I like Looper and all, but I have little desire to see him pinch-hit. Jimenez has been better, but he can go away now.
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
by coachnick39 on Jul 30, 2008 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I’d say, without any real justification that we’ll be under a 13 man until Adam comes back healthy. Or call-ups.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jul 30, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was more curious as to who goes down...Stavi or Jimenez?
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
by coachnick39 on Jul 30, 2008 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
probably the Stav
I’m sure they can think of more reasons to justify keeping an extra (mediocre) pitcher around, even though when they lose games it’s usually because of the offense.
I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps.
by madding on Jul 30, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"usually because of the offense."
Couldn’t tell that from reading VEB….
by Evilfrog on Jul 30, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I avoid the game threads by necessity
I work nights and have to tape the games during the week to see them. most of the time I’ll skim the game threads after I finish watching a game, unless it was a particularly tough loss. but unless you’re “in the moment” and watching the bullpen implode, if you take a step back and look at the bigger picture you can see that they just don’t win unless they score. pretty simple, right? they need 4+ runs to have a chance, and a lot of times they don’t put the bullpen in a position to succeed simply because of the lack of run production.
I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps.
by madding on Jul 30, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I see the uneven offense as an even bigger problem than the bullpen… but it is a harder problem to fix imo
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Scoring in a bunchs
I think a team that goes through very hot and cold bunches to have a higher probability than a more stable team to win the World Series. Once you get to the playoffs everything is a crap shoot. So your best shot it that your streaky players get hot for a couple weeks to carry you all the way
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 30, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as long as you can make the playoffs...
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After The Mulder Fiasco
I ‘m almost afraid to watch, although I think the Cards would be extra careful not to send a man out there if they had the slightest of worries. Realizing how long Carpenter has been out of action, I would be thrilled to see five innings out of him. That would mean he pitched decently, and that’s all we can ask at this point.
His return makes this a very exciting night. Try not to expect too much, folks (and hope that we are pleasantly surprised!)
by ccthemovieman on Jul 30, 2008 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Flo is back on the DL to make room for Carp
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
by coachnick39 on Jul 30, 2008 4:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
DL or optioned?
or both the same?
Bernie is saying “optioned”
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 30, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're right
I was reading too fast and just saw the words 15-day DL
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
by coachnick39 on Jul 30, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can not tell you how happy this makes me.
I don’t want him to be hurt. But I don’t want a position player going down. And Flo hasn’t been that effective lately..
by Evilfrog on Jul 30, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he can be optioned if he was signed
to an ML contract. He has to be DFAed & pass waivers first. Maybe he had another attack of icantpitchendicitis…?
by Red in Chicago on Jul 30, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Signal to the End
Hopefully we wont see Flores back on this team again. I think we will end up getting Will Ohman while we are down here in Atlanta
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 30, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tea Leaves
Does this suggest that we are about to acquire a lefty, i.e. Fuentes?
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on Jul 30, 2008 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is Ankiel definitely still out?
I know he pinch-hit last night, but I haven’t heard anything about his status today as far as possibly starting goes.
by BTown Birds fan on Jul 30, 2008 4:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
MLBTradeRumors says
we’re still farting around with Pittsburgh over Bay. They want Rasmus, I guess. Haven’t we heard this before? What part of “no” don’t they comprehend?
by Red in Chicago on Jul 30, 2008 4:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Latest rumor
has it they (Pirates) will settle for a couple of pitching prospects.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 30, 2008 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is Jason Bay really that good?
will he be a significant improvement over Skip?
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well...
His 137 OPS+ would be pretty nice to have in the lineup…the .523 SLG…he’s 29 (so still okay for a corner outfielder age-wise)...for some reason baseball-reference is failing me and I cannot get to his splits, but I am pretty sure they are good vs. both lefties and righties
The only drawback I see is that he’s from Canada (and has a very weak throwing arm).
by stlfan on Jul 30, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That must be because
Canadians drink beer with their left hand.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 30, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they do drink beer like pros though
and have a lot of good comedians. not to mention William Shatner comes from Canada, he’s great.
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 30, 2008 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I drink beer with my left hand
Then again, I’m left-handed.
by jdub176 on Jul 30, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I drink beer with both hands
At the same time!
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 30, 2008 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so definite upgrade there offensively
downgrade defensively. does he have decent range in the outfield? I hope we don’t give up some good pitching for him…. although he might make our offense a bit more consistent. tough call
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of think he would be a fair trade, even up
for Ryan Ludwick. Bay’s been around the league the same number of years, but has shown much more consistency. He does, however, cost a lot more than Ludwick, and will need a fat new contract in a year or two, IIRC. Ludwick also plays decent OF at all three positions, and may just be a late bloomer.
I think I’ll pass if it costs Jesse Todd or Clay Mortenson.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 30, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but trading Luddy for Bay is a wash offensively, no?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 30, 2008 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FYI: Yankees trade Farnsworth
to Tigers for Pudge.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 30, 2008 4:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
holy guacamole!
lets offer the tigres Jiminez for Polanco
by vances law on Jul 30, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
have you seen how bad Pudge has been this year?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 30, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have not follwed Pudge, but he was pretty good against the Cards? going off memory
by ICbirdfan on Jul 30, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so much for them trying to get all the Molina Brothers
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jul 30, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmmmm
OPS+ of 101
throwing out 36% of base stealers
not pudge of old but pretty much a kind gift to a team over a barrell
by vances law on Jul 30, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we're getting former Card's from the Tigers
Can we throw in Parisi and pick up Edgar also?
Jimmy steps in to lead off the bottom half of the inning... with nobody on base... It could happen... just not tonight.
by Hollywood15 on Jul 30, 2008 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Edgar
Will most likely be a Type A free agent, He is right on the edge
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 30, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pretty certain he isn't a FA to be
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 30, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
looks like the Yanks
are collecting aging veterans again
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sortof
but he’s a free agent and will more than likely be of the Type A variety.
by Tackle Box on Jul 30, 2008 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
anyone hear when Ank is supposed to be back?
this has been twice where he’s been out, but not on the DL
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 4:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rosenthal is supposedly
saying the Marlins are willing to part with at least Josh Willingham, maybe more, for Manny.
If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.
by cardsrul on Jul 30, 2008 4:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Random Tidbit...
The NL Central…by wins
Cubs 63
Cardinals/Brewers 60
Astros/Reds/Pirates 50
Wow. It was strange seeing so many 0’s at the end of the win column. I thought it said 63, then five 60’s for a few seconds until I took a closer look. Just kinda interesting.
by stlfan on Jul 30, 2008 4:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
De Ja Vu all over again
Rolen’s shoulder is hurting up in Toronto.
Now Ricardi will be really pissed off at us and demand more for Burnett!
by birdo rojo on Jul 30, 2008 5:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he took Burnett off the market
because as Hardcore Legend so eloquently put,
“he’s the Joe Morgan of GM’s”
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jul 30, 2008 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's definitely what he said
Although I’m one to never believe quotes given to the press about who is or is not available.
by birdo rojo on Jul 30, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know,
in these latest round of Jason Bay rumours, it’s being speculated that Tampa Bay is offering something along the lines of Reid Brignac and Jeff Niemann for Bay. Tampa is apparently looking for right handed outfield help.
With that in mind, I wonder if they would be interested in one of our own right handed hitting outfielders? Ryan Ludwick doesn’t have quite as much of a track record hitting as Bay does, but he is a far better fielder and has a better contract situation. I wonder, would Ludwick be enough to pry away Brignac + a throw in?
Oh how about this? Ludwick + one of our relief prospects (Motte, Salas, etc.)
for
Reid Brignac + Jacob McGee
Hmm. On second thought, it would probably take more than that to get those two. How about Ludwick + Motte + Craig? Too much?
McGee is awfully good, but the Rays have a lot of depth in the lefty pitching arena and are short elsewhere. Brignac would be the solution to the Cards’ SS questions.
Craig is included strictly as a value play, as the Rays are obviously set at third base.
Or, how about Mather + relief prospect for Brignac alone? Might not be enough.
Hmm. Interesting though. I think we could do just as well for Tampa at a whole lot cheaper monetary cost.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 30, 2008 5:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
if we traded Ludwick to them
then we might as well try to get Bay. although his name fits well at Tampa
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Personally, I'd rather have Brignac than Bay
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 30, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jul 30, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure I follow.
Why should just try to get Bay instead? Personally, I think Brignac alone will be much more valuable over the next, say, five years than Bay. If you could pry away one of their pitching prospects in a package deal, that’s not even close.
I guess I just don’t think Bay is nearly as good as everybody thinks.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 30, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just saying we'd have to get someone to replace Ludwick
if we traded him to Tampa. then we may as well try to trade for Bay. if that makes any sense.
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm also not sold on Jason Bay
not sure why we want to get him so much
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
like I said earlier though
if we go for someone like Jason Bay, we might as well go all the way and try to get Dunn
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i am totally against trading for Bay
he’s overrated & has a piss poor throwing arm.
i am on board with shipping LUD to Tampa for a SS & any thing else the Ray’s are willing to part with. i think his value will never get higher, and we have plenty of OF to spare. he’s a feel good story & i really like him. but if his services can land us an SS who can actually hit, i am all for it.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jul 30, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so Mather would replace Ludwick for now?
seems like significant downgrade for a possible playoff team
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm against it for this year
This is a better post-season move.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 30, 2008 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I’m pretty much in the stand pat crew… although I’d like to see some small trades made
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you make a very valid point!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 30, 2008 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Bay's that great either
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 30, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been pushing to trade Ludwick for Breignac
for awhile now.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 30, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Putz Rumors
Forgive me if this has already been discussed to death, I’ve missed several days of VEB.
Dan Graziano of the Newark Star-Ledger reports that the Cardinals and Red Sox have interest in JJ. Putz is signed through ‘09 with an option for ‘10.
Career numbers: WHIP 1.150, ERA+ 140, K/BB 3.32.
I am kinda excited about this prospect. I am not sure who we will need to give up, though.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Jul 30, 2008 5:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
As good as he's been, I'd be nervous
2 different trips to the DL this year alone.
He is a Wolverine, rather than a Spartan though so hopefully he’d turn out better than Mulder.
by birdo rojo on Jul 30, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe we just need to avoid all players from the giant mitten in the Great Lakes
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 30, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mulder's from South Holland, Ill.
He just wasted four years in the Mitten.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 30, 2008 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey!
Those of us in the “giant mitten in the Great Lakes” resemble that remark!! Oh, I mean, RESENT that remark!
by cardsgirl95 on Jul 30, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who's this Carpenter you speak of?
Can he pitch?
by riotmute on Jul 30, 2008 5:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A line worth a giggle
Actually, the story isn’t all that bad, I’ve always generally liked Eric. Here’s the link
Sure, Todd Jones had been on the hot seat for two years in the Motor City, but is Fernando Rodney really any better? He strikes out more hitters, but then again, every pitcher and Aaron Miles does that. Rodney’s ERA is higher than Jones’, and he’s already walked 11 hitters in 16 2/3 innings. Jones walked 15 all season. I sense Jim Leyland will be reassessing this troubled situation again soon
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jul 30, 2008 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Anthony Reyes
first start away from the Cardinals organization:
5IP, 3ER, 4BB, 4K, 5H, pulled in the W.
by longhornscardinals on Jul 30, 2008 5:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sounds par for the course
Almost a quality start.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 30, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That statline looks similar
to alot of predictions for carpenter tonight
gonna need more franklins to get through this one.
by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 30, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
did he start for Cleveland?
or the minors?
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tough First Inning
Threw 33 pitches in the first inning and 66 over the next 4
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 30, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wonder how his velocity was......
Something just has not seemed right about the guy for a long time.
Wow that’s a lot of pitches. I saw he gave up 2 HR, 4BB, and 4SO.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 30, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not very good.....
for a AAA start.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 30, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
am i alone?
really, all i care about is getting through this game and hearing carp say “i felt great out there. no pain at all.”
that equals success for me. because i’m scared to death of him starting tonight. feels like it’s too soon for him to be starting a game in the bigs.
hell..what do i know???
by busch league on Jul 30, 2008 5:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
no different health wise
starting this game vs starting a game in the minors.
But yeah. If he stinks up the joint and is pain free I’ll be happy.
by Evilfrog on Jul 30, 2008 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're right
i guess i just had this idea that WHAT I REALLY WANTED was to see carp and waino in the pen for the rest of the year. imho, we’re not going to win the division and we’re a really long shot to win the wild card. i’d just play it on the safe side and hold their hand through the healing process. let them set their sights for being as strong and as healthy as they can possibly be in 2009.
by busch league on Jul 30, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How can it be too soon?
He’s been throwing sim games down in Florida for awhile now. Threw twice in the minors. If the endurance and command is close, might as well be in the majors.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 30, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
right again
but sim games and the minors is NOT the bigs in the middle of a playoff chase.
screw it…i don’t have any real justifcation for being so scared. carp is just the truth…the straight dope…and i don’t want him to have a setback.
by busch league on Jul 30, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and that is some bad grammar there, man.
wow
by busch league on Jul 30, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing though
Carp’s injury is at least a known quantity. I mean, it’s not something flukish. Carp also has a history of coming off of injuries strong generally and has shown to know his body well. He also has shown (even earlier this year) to listen to his body and see the medical team (and a second opinion) when something doesn’t feel right.
If this was Waino, I think I’d be in the same camp as you. Freakish injury and not a lot of cases to reference, young pitcher who will ignore body signs, etc.
But Carp has shown to respect his body when it can’t perform, has had a very solid rehab pace that doesn’t scream “too quick”, and can use a MLB team that may look like a top AAA team to guage where he is.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jul 30, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Real lineup for tonight.....
I had it nailed above, save the Kennedy/Mather position in the lineup.
Skip CF
Kennedy 2B
Pujols 1B
Ludwick RF
Glaus 3B
Molina C
Mather LF
Carpenter P
Izturis SS
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 30, 2008 5:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Does it feel odd wondering where Miles is? Carp needs some good D though.
Put Miles at SS and you have your best hitting MI
by ICbirdfan on Jul 30, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carp has been at the park since noon
Guess he is pumped up to start.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 30, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hasn't he always been an early show?
I mean, it’s… been a while since Carp has started, but I recall reading something a couple of years ago that he’s at the park super early on days that he starts.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jul 30, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This I didn't know
Thanks for the info.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 30, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I live in a world
where Adam Kennedy is a #2 hitter and Joe Mather is a #7 hitter.
Like the lineup, don’t get me wrong, but that just doesn’t sound right.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 30, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tony...
must have a hit and run hair up his ass tonight, lol.
Have to put Adam in the 2 spot because Molina can’t run and Adam can’t hit
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jul 30, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It does make the bottom of the lineup a little more scary.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 30, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
it might keep me from going “pfffffft” anytime Molina makes the 3rd out of an inning
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 30, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at least
Kennedy performs better in the 2 hole for some reason
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 30, 2008 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That sounds
ridiculously dirty. And awesome.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 30, 2008 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want to see Carp last
more than 16 pitches, and NOT go on the DL after the game.
Seriusly, 5 IP, 2 ER, 5H, 2 BB, 3K. I think he’ll struggle to locate his fastball early, Braves will hit it hard a couple of times, but he’ll settle down in the third inning and get a groove.
We’ll have our Sabathis and Zambrano back.
And the Cubs and Brewers will have tire marks on their backs as we zoom past them in the standings.
"Is this Heaven?"
"No, it;s Iowa."
"I could've sworn it was Heaven."
by MilCardFan on Jul 30, 2008 6:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i dont think he'll get hit hard...
he hasn’t been hit very hard in any of his rehab starts. his stuff is still good, just needs to locate it.
by longhornscardinals on Jul 30, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hit by Pitch
How many people do you think he will hit in the game? He hit 2 in his last minor league game.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 30, 2008 6:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Where is Silent Bob?
I’m sure he is concerned about the Carp being rushed back?
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 30, 2008 6:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
how is he being rushed back?
What’s the difference between his start tonight and another start in Memphis? It’s not like he’s going to go any longer tonight then he would in a AAA game (pitches wise)
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 30, 2008 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I could have sworn S.B.
Gave a analysis of Carps return sometime ago and he suggested that Carp sit this year out… average return time from this surgery being about 15 months after the operation…. and this is Carps 12th month.
Maybe I remember wrong… but that’s why I’m wondering where Silent Bob is to get his take on all this.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 30, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
CRAP!!
I wish individual posta had an edit function…Sabathia….
Don’t trade Lohse. This team, if Carp comes back, is a legitimate playoff contending team, and with Carp, Wainwright and Lohse you have an exceptional short series team that could beat anyone if those three guys are on.
"Is this Heaven?"
"No, it;s Iowa."
"I could've sworn it was Heaven."
by MilCardFan on Jul 30, 2008 6:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Our offense still sucks against non-AAA pitching
and since we will face the Diamondbacks like 9 times the rest of the way out, not going to see much of that.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 30, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well thankfully they don't hit much better than an AAA team
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 30, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Go Carp...he better beat Richmond.
HL is right. Once we start playing above .500 teams things could get rough again, but I hope not. Maybe we’ll even beat Hamels again, though watching Schu hit Friday makes me cringe.
Recently, we’ve won 8 of 9 from PIT, SD and ATL. We’ve lost 6 of 7 to NY and MIL.
by greenwichvillagecard on Jul 30, 2008 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not like we've really been overmatched in that 6 of 7...
at least against MIL. sometimes thats just the way the cookie crumbles in baseball.
by longhornscardinals on Jul 30, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
but we scored what in that 4 game series, a combined 8 runs?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 30, 2008 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not going to argue with that...
but we held our own against the team. sometimes pitching goes flat, sometimes offense, at least it wasn’t both at the same time.
by longhornscardinals on Jul 30, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, but we should've taken atleast 2 from the Brewers
if we didn’t have crappy bullpen.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 30, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
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