Three Little Birds
It's actually tough not to feel pretty optimistic this morning if you're a Cardinal fan. It's a feeling that we haven't really had a ton of lately, what with our division rivals adding big guns in their respective rotations, continued bullpen implosions, and an offensive attack slightly less consistent than Cybil.
Today, though, it feels pretty good to be a Cards fan. We've won the last two games handily (though, admittedly, from a Braves squad in freefall), scoring twenty runs in two games. Against all odds, this team is still firmly in the wild card race, and only a handful of games behind the Cubs for the division lead. And most exciting of all, the franchise's only non Gibsonian Cy Young Award winner will take the mound tonight in Atlanta.Tough to feel very sour this morning.
Hell, even the bullpen looked pretty strong last night. Franklin got through his two innings with no damage done (he did make it slightly more exciting than necessary, though), and Kyle McClellan pitched decently. The leadoff walk certainly didn't help matters any, but after that he settled down and tossed a pretty strong frame. If not for the throwing error by Izturis, he most likely would have escaped unscathed.
Then again, the Cardinals are playing a team that's utterly demoralized, having just traded away their sole remaining star component on offense and finding out that the staff ace, Tim Hudson, is going under the knife for a quick Teej. I suppose it's much easier to beat up on a team like this than the Brewers or Metropolitans, no?
With all of that in mind, though, I still feel really good about the team this morning. Even when I hear one of the front office members talking about Wainwright going back to the bullpen, I feel like it'll all just work itself out. Even as the trade deadline approaches and it becomes clearer and clearer that there simply aren't many moves to be made (sensible moves, that is), I don't get too very upset.
To what do I owe my newfound calm? Well, I think we've finally reached the point of acceptance with this team. We started the year just hoping to see some young kids do well and the team not embarrass itself. We've obviously gotten that. Then, of course, as the fever of competition set in, we all began foaming at the mouth for victory, for glory, for the chance to break the Cubs' fans hearts yet again. Inevitably, with our expectations so inflated, the crash soon followed, and our hearts were wroth.
Now, though, now we've moved beyond all of that. We've had our hearts broken as badly as they can be by this team in the Great Bullpen Crash of 2008. We sat and watched helplessly as contest after contest was let slip away in the last six outs. Even just a competent bullpen, an average bullpen, would have the Cardinals sitting in first place right now. But that's okay. Regardless of what happens now, the rest of this season is going to be fun, and I think we've all come to the point of just accepting that whatever it's going to be is what it's going to be.
It could also be that the rare, poisonous mold growing in the air ducts of my house is beginning to cause some pretty severe brain damage, causing this feeling of peace which is, in fact, simply large numbers of neural synapses shutting down. Eh. Either way.
I don't really have a whole lot to talk about today. I don't have any charts, or graphs, because I'm not so good at the math. So, I thought that I would just pose a few questions to everyone and just see how everybody's feeling this morning.
First question. What do you expect out of Monsieur Carpenter tonight? This is probably as good a situation as you could possibly hope for him in his first start back, facing a lineup without much in the way of danger and a team that's pretty down just in general. He is going up against a pretty tough young customer in Jair Jurrjens, but that shouldn't really affect how Carpenter throws.
Personally, I think Carp will probably be on a fairly strict pitch limit in the 80-85 range. His control will be a little iffy, but against this lineup I think he'll still be able to get the job done. My prediction:
6 IP, 2 ER, 4 H, 3 BB, 3 K, 87 Pitches
Second question. What's the one move you most want to see the Cardinals make before tomorrow's trade deadline? It's become pretty clear that the big moves aren't going to happen, but there could still be something useful in the works. What one guy out there would you really like to see the Cards try to get? Or, conversely, what one piece would you like to see the Cards sell off?
Third question. This one's related to #2, but not exactly the same. There's been some talk about putting Kyle Lohse on the market. If Carpenter comes out and is effective tonight, do you think the Cards should toss Lohse out there and see what they can get for him? Of course, I'm sure that Mo and co already have a pretty good idea of what Lohse is worth, but the closer you get to the deadline, the more desperate teams will become to get the help they think they need.
There was a big discussion recently on the subject over at Gateway Redbirds. There wasn't much of a consensus arrived at. I'm curious to see how this community feels about the subject. With Wainwright hopefully on his way back within the next few weeks and Carpenter coming back tonight, Lohse may be somewhat expendable. You would certainly be selling high on him, as his value is probably greater right now than at any other point in his career. Personally, I would probably be willing to do it. Of course, I would also make a terrible GM, as I would be entirely too quick to sell, always trying to improve the talent base regardless of the actual situation. How about you guys? Hold on to Lohse, or try to turn him into talent for the future?
News and notes:
Apparently the Diamondbacks are close to getting a new contract extension done with Dan Haren. Pretty much every time I see Haren's name in print anywhere I just get sadder and sadder. A 2.77 FIP? Sigh.
The Pirates are still looking to move both Jason Bay and Jack Wilson, but it doesn't look as if a deal for either one is going to get done.
I keep hearing that the Dodgers are looking to try and find some sort of help at shortstop to try and shore up their middle infield in the absence of Rafael Furcal, but talks seem to be nearly nonexistent. Anybody have any idea what's going on with LA?
The Cards made a bunch of minor league roster moves yesterday, including bringing Jon Jay up to Triple A. Future Redbirds has the complete rundown of all the maneuvering.
I'll be back later with a game thread. Have a swell day, everybody.
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Rushing Carp back?
I’ve seen concerns that he is being rushed back. I think he would have faced tougher hitters in Memphis than this Braves lineup.
by birdjam on Jul 30, 2008 10:20 AM EDT 0 recs
Totally agree,
but at the same time I don’t think it’s a bad thing for him to face a weaker lineup, get some more confidence, and possible get the ball rolling. I don’t think there’s any doubt he’d be facing just as good of a lineup in AAA. That’s basically what he’s facing tonight.
6IP, 2ER, 5H, 2BB, 4KS 79pitches and a W
Go Crazy Folks, Go Crazy!!!
by joshbaz12 on
Jul 30, 2008 10:30 AM EDT
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But to respond to the questions...
1) “Expectations” feels like too strong a word – I heave learned not to “expect” anything with this team, but what I am hoping for is 4 to 5 innings and just a couple of runs allowed. What I want more than anything, though is for him to leave the mound because he or the coaches want him to, bot because he has to. And I hope he wakes up tomorrow feeling the way the doctors want him to.
2) I’d love to see the Cards sell high on one or more guys who are not actually as good as they are currently playing, but I really like everyone who fits that description (I’m thinking Ludwick, Schumaker, and Lohse) and would hate to see them go. So unless the front office can find a way to significantly improve this year’s AND next year’s teams – which I doubt is possible – then I am fine standing pat.
3) Same answer as #2, particularly the part about being able to significantly improve the team. I do not think Lohse can sustain this type of success longterm, so shopping him now would definitely be selling high. If the right offer came along, I would be fine with trading him even though I like him.
by birdjam on
Jul 30, 2008 11:02 AM EDT
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Sorry for the typos
Clearly I meant “have” in the first line and “not because he has to” in the third. Lousy fat fingers…
by birdjam on
Jul 30, 2008 4:51 PM EDT
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I have the concern he is being rushed back.
My concern isn’t really about the toughness of the lineup. My concern is that in a rehab assignment, if a certain pitch isn’t effective, he can keep trying it to get a feel for it. He doesn’t really have that option in the majors. At some point during the start, he would have to abandon that pitch all together.
I just don’t think this is the best option for success. He’ll be able to get back to form much quicker in a rehab stint than in the majors.
by outraged on
Jul 30, 2008 12:25 PM EDT
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I think the Cardinals
are looking at Carp’s start tonight this way: 80-to-90 pitches of a rusty Carp are better than what the Birds would get from Mitch Boggs, Mike Parisi, et. al. right now!
I’m not expecting “Cy Carp” tonight by any means, but if he’s better than your other options, why not let him pitch in The Show?
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on
Jul 30, 2008 12:29 PM EDT
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I really don't care what the results are
All I want to see is a fastball with a bit of giddyup and a curveball with some break to it.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
Jul 30, 2008 12:30 PM EDT
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fastball has giddyup. Offspeed is fine
Fastball doesn’t have Carpinter like location.
by Evilfrog on
Jul 30, 2008 2:00 PM EDT
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I don't think a rusty Carp
will be much better than our other options right now. But putting him in the majors will have the effect of slowing down his return to near his former self. By putting him the majors now, I think the Cardinals are depriving themselves of having a superior Carpenter for the stretch run.
by outraged on
Jul 30, 2008 12:59 PM EDT
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First Start
I would rather him be a little rushed so he can get his first start against AAAA Braves vs the Cubs.
by FlimtotheFlam on
Jul 30, 2008 12:31 PM EDT
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Great post, RB...
Carp prediction:
5 IP, 3 ER, 6 H, 3 BB, 4 K, 88 pitches and a ND
At this point, I would be satisfied if they did nothing…better that than something stupid
and speaking of something stupid, IMO, that is what it would be to dangle Lohse based on just one appearance by Carpenter…can never have enough pitching.
by tbell61 on Jul 30, 2008 10:21 AM EDT 0 recs
+1
With regard to never having enough pitching
by Ray Lankford on
Jul 30, 2008 10:21 AM EDT
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One thing that is kinda cool
The Cards didn’t win their 60th game in 2007 until August 21st. I understand this is a different season, team and competition but that still shows that this team has played very solid baseball pretty consistently this season
by riotmute on Jul 30, 2008 10:21 AM EDT 0 recs
El Carpitain prediction
6 ip, 2 ERs, 5 hits, 2 bbs, 7 ks, 91 pitches. And a W,
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Jul 30, 2008 10:23 AM EDT 0 recs
El Carpitain
I really like that nickanme. Props to you, Alxfritz!
Put me down for 6IP, 2 ERs, 6 Hs, 2BBs, 6Ks. 87 pitches.
by cardsgirl95 on
Jul 30, 2008 11:15 AM EDT
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+1
El Carpitain is almost as good as El Hombre.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on
Jul 30, 2008 6:17 PM EDT
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I did just pick him up off of waivers on my fantasy team,
but, yeah.
I also envision TLR having gone into the locker room over the weekend and saying:
“To keep up with Milwaukee getting Sabathia and Chicago getting Harden, we made a move to pick up a cy young winner that eats innings and craps k’s, had the best winning percentage in the majors for a few years and is an absolute bulldog on the mound. Carp starts Wednesday.”
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on
Jul 30, 2008 11:23 AM EDT
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+1
I’m counting on him to help me take a league lead next week with his 2-start week.
I’ve been totally excited about this start since about Monday.
6 IP, 1 ER, 4H, 2BB, 4K, W.
by thefutureofamerica on
Jul 30, 2008 12:36 PM EDT
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Man do I feel vindicated.
I was prerusing SI.com this morning, an what do I find but a report of trade rumors involving Adam Dunn.
A couple of weeks ago, I accused Dunn of being fat and lazy and was lambasted by the community for it. Apparently I am not the only one that thinks Dunn is soft and out of shape.
“Adam Dunn is the man without a rumor. The Reds would deal him, but none of the teams out there looking for outfield help seem to be interested, and it’s one of the more confounding aspects of this year’s deadline. Dunn is 28 years old. He’s on track for a fifth straight 40-homer season. His on-base percentage is .386, which would be the highest on the Angels, White Sox, Tigers, Brewers, Marlins and Rays and the second-highest on the Mets. Negatives include his astronomical strikeout totals and the perception (articulated last month publicly and somewhat embarrassingly by Toronto GM J.P. Ricciardi) that Dunn is a soft, unmotivated player who doesn’t come through in the clutch.”
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 30, 2008 10:25 AM EDT 0 recs
Sorry to hijack your post, the red baron.
I just HAD to put that in there. Ahhh the sweet pancakes-with-syrup taste of justice!
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
Jul 30, 2008 10:28 AM EDT
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hmm...
i can totally identify with a feeling of vindication, because it’s an awesome feeling. but i gotta say, all that says to me is that there is a perception of Dunn which we were already all aware of. doesn’t mean it’s a correct perception.
by mattybobo on
Jul 30, 2008 10:34 AM EDT
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+1
And I don’t see anywhere where it mentions him “out of shape.”
by saladdays on
Jul 30, 2008 10:43 AM EDT
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Even if that was true it's still a dumb position
.247 .381 .522 for a career. Going to be 5 straight 40 home run seasons. I wish I was that fat and lazy.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on
Jul 30, 2008 11:02 AM EDT
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Me too.
Someone, bring me some cheeseburgers and a recliner! I’m headed to the majors!
by jdub176 on
Jul 30, 2008 11:04 AM EDT
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amen
"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda" - Rev. Jerry Falwell
by elirock83 on
Jul 30, 2008 1:54 PM EDT
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I just don't think it's fair to call someone fat and lazy, especially someone you don't have
up close and personal knowledge of. I would have to say GM’s need to look below the surface-and beyond the batting average-there IS plenty that Dunn brings to the table.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on
Jul 30, 2008 11:04 AM EDT
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Dunn is an impressionable youth.
He spends long hours playing video game and I’m sure, wondering what its all about. No one really knows what he might become if he stopped being the “comic relief” for Griffey. I am not a fan, but I would guess in the right organization, with the right team mates, he might be a monster producer.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on
Jul 30, 2008 11:11 AM EDT
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Well in fairness he is a butcher defensively and gives a lot back
But focusing on a guy for not being a superstar because he’s simply very good is unfair.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on
Jul 30, 2008 11:24 AM EDT
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Dunn is 28 years old
Hardly an “impressionable youth.”
Many people his age play video games a lot. I don’t know how old you are, but that’s a common hobby/pastime/whatever to people in his age group. It doesn’t mean that he is “wondering what it’s all about.”
by saladdays on
Jul 30, 2008 11:57 AM EDT
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how do you know he plays video games?
maybe he’s not very philosophical either
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Jul 30, 2008 1:42 PM EDT
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My total worry about Dunn isn't his current production or the production for the next couple of years...
It is his durability that worries me. He will never lose his tremendous batting eye, but I am afraid his bat will slow down very quickly as he ages due to his lack of physical conditioning. Guys just can’t carry that kind of weight for a very long career. They tend to fall apart all at once. I don’t think Dunn exhibits the kind of physical conditioning it will take to extend his career very far into his 30’s.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
Jul 30, 2008 12:01 PM EDT
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He's listed as 6-6, 240 lbs.
If that’s accurate, it doesn’t seem like all that much weight to be carrying around. Prince Fielder, on the other hand . . .
by Ray Lankford on
Jul 30, 2008 12:02 PM EDT
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Seriously, you and I both know
that Dunn is a teensey bit heavier than that. I think he was listed at 6-6, 240 his rookie year, and he has carried that listing his whole career. Scott Rolen was listed at 6’4” and 225. I would hazard a guess that weight gap between Dunn and Rolen is that small.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
Jul 30, 2008 12:04 PM EDT
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Reds website has him at 275
The previous figure was from Baseball Reference.com.
I still don’t know if I’m on board with the argument that, because he’s heavy, he’ll decline rapidly. Maybe he will, maybe he won’t. Wasn’t Babe Ruth heavy?
by Ray Lankford on
Jul 30, 2008 12:11 PM EDT
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Yep, and so was
Mo Vaughn. Comparing Ruth to Dunn isn’t exactly Apples-to-Apples. I know there are people that buck the trend, but the entire medical field will certainly say that extra weight is hard on the joints, causing premature wear on knees, ankles, and hips. I simply worry that Dunn (who is a bit of a two-trick pony with the walks and homeruns) will turn into a one-trick pony with just the walks alone if his foundation doesn’t hold up.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
Jul 30, 2008 12:15 PM EDT
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It has to be better more accurate
comparing him to Ruth.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
Jul 30, 2008 12:21 PM EDT
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"he's just a two-trick pony!"
“All he does is crush the ball and walk!”
by jdub176 on
Jul 30, 2008 12:20 PM EDT
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Right
but what happens when he stops crushing the ball?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
Jul 30, 2008 12:22 PM EDT
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who's to say that he will?
Frank Thomas has had some injury problems over the years (or you know, “his foundation hasn’t held up well”), but he still obliterates the ball when he’s healthy. It’s funny that his name comes up, actually, since we’re talking about Ricciardi…
by jdub176 on
Jul 30, 2008 12:24 PM EDT
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there's no rhyme or reason
on whether or not being a large guy will deteriorate your joints faster. it depends on heredity, and I don’t think any of us is a genetics expert
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Jul 30, 2008 1:45 PM EDT
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Oh, where's thepainguy when I need a medical backup!
There are numerous studies that link body mass with premature joint deterioration.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
Jul 30, 2008 4:36 PM EDT
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There were also contradicting studies about pitchers.
The Hardball times did a study looking at the performance falloff of different pitchers body types. Heavy pitchers showed the best aging curves over thinner pitchers.
The reasons are not understood.
by DriverZn on
Jul 30, 2008 5:10 PM EDT
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are you saying that some people are not more prone to injury than others?
that some are not made of tougher stuff, regardless of amount of weight? (within reason of course)
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Jul 30, 2008 7:06 PM EDT
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Its not exactly apples to oranges either
Your argument - that heavy players decline fast - is supported and contradicted with examples. Because I picked one that contradicts your argument doesn’t mean its not comparable.
by Ray Lankford on
Jul 30, 2008 12:22 PM EDT
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In the sense
that Vaughn played 10 years ago and Ruth played in a whole different era, I believe the Vaughn comparison holds more relevance than the other.
Look, my point is that Dunn is certainly very heavy. He is slow both in the field and on the basepaths. He has a poor throwing arm. Barring a change in habits or scenery, none of these should get any better as he ages. I believe he is a very high-risk player to add on to our roster, considering the cost it would take to get and retain his services.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
Jul 30, 2008 12:28 PM EDT
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Vaughn
was certainly much heavier than Adam Dunn, and not near as athletic as Dunn either. A more favorable comparison could be made of guys like Reggie Jackson, Dave Henderson, Dave Parker, or Frank Thomas. All those guys were modestly overweight for much of their careers and continued to produce at a high level into their mid to late thirties.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Jul 30, 2008 12:37 PM EDT
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Dave Parker was a large man
but a phenomenal athlete who ran well (for most of his career) and had an absolute cannon for an arm. He was drafted by the NFL, they don’t take non-athletic doughboys.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on
Jul 30, 2008 2:46 PM EDT
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Dave Parker was also 6'1" and 195
hardly anything near the size of Dunn. I looked up all the sluggers that 4stick is mentioning, and Reggie Jackson was 6’ and 200 lbs, Dave Henderson was 6’2” and 220.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
Jul 30, 2008 4:38 PM EDT
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I think , as you stated before , that was at the beginning of their careers
BR has Gorman Thomas listed as 6’2 210. I don’t remember him being anywhere near that svelt, and Gorman Thomas didn’t have that bad of a career.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Jul 30, 2008 6:17 PM EDT
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And that's fine
My point is that you can’t categorically say ‘This guy’s overweight because he doesn’t work hard, therefore, his career is going to shit sometime soon’ without having more justification than your opinion.
Maybe he will fall apart all at once, maybe he won’t. Maybe Dunn is just a big fucking guy who will always be heavy no matter how hard he conditions. Also, how is being slow evidence of a lack of conditioning? And a poor throwing arm? I don’t get it.
I really don’t have a dog in this fight, except that I think Dunn gets a bad wrap. Who knows what will happen? Certainly none of us.
by Ray Lankford on
Jul 30, 2008 12:38 PM EDT
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why wouldn't
a team he’s traded to say, “oh hey, btw, you’re running 4-5 miles a day during the off season or you’re getting benched” or something. maybe not in such draconian terms, but can’t a team dictate a fitness regimen?
by spencegrif on
Jul 30, 2008 1:06 PM EDT
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i love
how we’re talking about adam dunn like he’s chris farley or something. the guy is in fine shape.
by baw on
Jul 30, 2008 2:21 PM EDT
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If Adam isn't careful
He’s gonna find himself playin’ BASEBALL in a FIELD…down by the RIVER!
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on
Jul 30, 2008 2:41 PM EDT
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What? Dunn is going to Pittsburgh?
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on
Jul 30, 2008 6:19 PM EDT
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surprised though
that an AL team wouldn’t want him as DH. he’d be a great DH
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Jul 30, 2008 1:46 PM EDT
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"due to his lack of physical conditioning"
for the zillionth time…. how exactly do you know his conditioning routine?
by baw on
Jul 30, 2008 12:05 PM EDT
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Oh, I'm sorry.
I didn’t realize that you knew more than what the GM of a major league team does. Riccardi may be an ass, but I guarantee he knows more about Adam Dunn’s physical conditioning and reputation than any of us do. Add in the fact that we have litterally watched the guy’s waistline bulge about 6 inches since he got in the leage, and it’s not hard to interpolate the cause. Do you really think the guys has a routine that involves healthy eating habits and much cardiovascular work?
Be honest here.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
Jul 30, 2008 12:09 PM EDT
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do you even know what ricciardi said?
here: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3453059
how exactly would j.p. ricciardi, in all his infinite baseball wisdom, know anything about adam dunn’s conditioning, anyway? because that’s what GMs talk about in the steamer? “boy, adam sure looks like he’s put on some weight.” “yeah, he likes to scarf packages of ballpark franks instead of hitting off a tee everyday.”
oh wait… here’s that overweight guy. god, somebody call jenny craig!
by baw on
Jul 30, 2008 12:13 PM EDT
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yeah
that guy is just so fat he can’t even get outta bed!
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Jul 30, 2008 1:47 PM EDT
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i don't know
if you look at that pick he doesn’t look that bad to me. He’s got some belly but he doesn’t look fat or out of shape
"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda" - Rev. Jerry Falwell
by elirock83 on
Jul 30, 2008 2:00 PM EDT
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Even if you're right...
Those are habits that could easily be changed by a change of scenery. Maybe there’s a really good pizza joint near his house in Cincy or something. His lack of workouts and poor eating habits (assuming this is true, although I’m skeptical) don’t seem to have much to do with him hitting a baseball, and could be dealt with in his next contract as well.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Jul 30, 2008 12:14 PM EDT
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hmm pizza?...
I’m betting it’s a ” SKYLINE CHILE ” place near his house….!!!
by Timbo02 on
Jul 30, 2008 12:52 PM EDT
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hah!
Little do you know that I do windsor pilates with Adam Dunn every Sunday morning!
by jdub176 on
Jul 30, 2008 12:14 PM EDT
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