the colonel per pitch/fX
by lboros on Jul 29, 2008 8:59 AM EDT
391 comments
a while ago over at Brew Crew Ball, a poster named dixieflatline presented some pitch/FX charts parsing out the velocity and movement on the pitches of the brewer starters, game by game. here’s a link to one of these posts, re dave bush; there are others if you hunt for them. very cool stuff. it turns out that dixieflatline is none other than josh kalk, creator of the world’s best publicly available pitch/FX data warehouse. right before i went on vacation, i asked josh if he would create such a chart for me on todd wellemeyer; i was curious to see if the chart showed a significant difference in the movement of his pitches --- specifically, his slider --- pre- and post-elbow. we’ve heard numerous times that welley’s slider isn’t biting anymore, and i wanted to see if that lack of bite could be quantified via pitch/FX. josh generously honored my request, preparing charts not only of todd’s slider but also his fastball. with wellemeyer slated to pitch tonight, i thought i would roll out the material today.
the charts arrived last week, while i was away from the blog, so they don’t include welley’s start vs the brew crew last thursday; the last start shown here is wellemeyer’s 6.1-inning, 5-run outing vs the padres on july 19, which he won. let’s begin with the chart of welley’s fastball:
first of all, the gray vertical line at day 160 corresponds to the initial manifestation of the elbow problem, in washington on june 5. everything to the left of that line (including the june 5 start) happened before the injury, and everything to the right of the line happened afterward (ie, all starts from june 13 forward).
look next at the black dots, the center row in the chart --- those represent the velocity of todd’s fastball. the mph scale is on the left-hand side of the chart; todd has averaged 92 to 93 on his fastball most of the season. right after the injury, his velocity increased into the 94-95 mph range for a few starts --- presumably because the extra rest put a little spring back into his arm.
now refer to the red dots, the bottom row on the chart; those show side-to-side movement. the averages are all below 0, which means his fastball runs in on a right-handed hitter; positive numbers break away from a righty, in on a lefty. note how smooth the line appears to be before the injury; with one exception (the may 9 start vs milwaukee, near day 130), the midpoints are very consistent from one start to the next. now look at the line since his injury ---- very inconsistent. one day he’s really busting ‘em inside, but the next day the same pitch stays 2 inches further out over the plate --- maybe far enough out there to get hammered. the erratic plot on the red dots post-elbow suggest a pitcher groping to locate his fastball --- a guy who can’t be sure from game to game where the pitch is going to go.
the blue dots at the top of the chart represent elevation: the higher the dot, the more the pitches stay up in the zone. (they’re labeled "vertical movement" on josh’s charts, but i’ll quibble with that terminology because it suggests that a pitch might break either up or down; in truth all pitches break down, it’s just that some break down more than others.) there’s been just a slight change there since the injury, a slight decrease in the elevation of the pitch --- nothing too drastic, but you can see it. this seems at odds with the velocity data --- i would expect the pitch elevation to increase with increased velocity, but apparently the opposite has happened. in any case, i don’t think it’s significant --- the change is small, and it has remained consistent, so presumably welley would be able to adjust to it. the most meaningful thing i see on the fastball chart is the unmooring of the side-side break on his fastball --- i think that illustrates a loss of command and an inability to locate pitches with snap, which are usually the problems associated with a tender elbow.
ok, let’s move on to the slider:
there’s not a whole lot to see ---- the average side-to-side movement (red dots) hasn’t changed much, pre- and post-elbow; ditto the average elevation (blue dots). and the average velocity on the slider (black dots) increased right after the injury, thanks to the extra days off. i had thought we might see a dramatic change, but there isn't one at first glance.
but the dots only represent the averages ---- the midpoint for each start. let’s look at the range, which is represented by the vertical lines sticking out the top and bottom of each dot. just to take an example, in welley’s second start of the year his slider velocity (the black dot) ranged from a low of about 81.5 miles per hour to a high of about 87. that’s a wide range, ie a high degree of variation or a lack of consistency. notice how the ranges on all three rows ---- velocity, side-side movement, and elevation --- tighten up after day 120 or so, right up until the injury. that corresponds roughly to the month of may, when todd was named nl pitcher of the month. the short range lines indicate that he was getting nearly identical movement on the pitch every time he threw it --- very consistent. after the injury, the range lines on all three rows go slack; from pitch to pitch his slider just hasn’t been as reliable in any respect (movement, break, or elevation). the velocity on the slider has been particularly sloppy since the injury --- the high-low ranges have been about 5 mph per game, and the midpoints (ie, the dots themselves) have bounced around quite a bit --- he was averaging nearly 88 mph on the pitch in his july 6 start vs the cubs, but less than 84 mph two starts later vs the padres on july 19. to the extent that welly has lost command of the slider, it’s most evident in the velocity row.
while these charts are illustrative, they don’t tell the whole story. there’s a critical element missing ---- location. if you throw a so-so slider on the outside corner, you might get a groundball to short; throw another slider with identical break and velocity but locate it right over the plate or put it belt high, and you’re going to get a different outcome. these charts won’t capture that kind of thing. but they do tell us something about pitch location, because when a guy starts to get inconsistent movement --- as wellemeyer has with both of his main pitches --- he’s going to miss spots.
thanks very much to josh kalk for taking the time to do this. if you haven’t browsed his pitch/FX data before, you really should.
a few items:
- yesterday’s various statements re the cardinal closer perfectly encapsulated the situation. first thing in the morning, i proclaimed kyle mcclellan to be the best man for the job. later in the day, la russa --- impudently usurping my authority --- announced that the 9th inning still belonged to ryan franklin. a few hours after that, dave duncan repealed that executive order and declared that izzy has won his old job back --- he’s closing. and during the fsn midwest broadcast last night, john mozeliak said that adam wainwright might close some games when he returns from his injury. that about sums it up, eh? . . . .
- tyler green got promoted to memphis --- big news for a former first-rounder who has struggled mightily. he was chosen at #30 in the 2005 draft, two slots after colby rasmus, but it has been a rough go for the kid --- didn’t hit in class A in 2006, didn’t hit in double A in 2007. he returned to double A again this year and started slowly, hitting .178 in april and .278 in may; but since june 1 he’s hit .305 and slugged .520 with 9 homers in 200 at-bats; his k rate is still high and his walk rate is abysmal, but if the guy is gonna have a career the cards have to challenge him. his MLE slash lines for the season are still only .206 / .253 / .329, so it’s not as if this is gi-normous news; but the cardinals need a shortstop, he can field the position, and he’s showing improvement at the plate. keep your fingers crossed. greene led off for memphis last night in his debut and went 1 for 5. he becomes the 6th player from the 2005 draft to reach triple A; 3 of those players (garcia boggs and stavinoha) already have played in st louis, and 2 others (rasmus and bryan anderson) are almost certain to make it.
- another late-blooming 2005 draftee, 3d-rounder daryl jones, got moved up to springfield after posting an .876 ops at palm beach, a notorious pitchers haven. by my count, no fewer than 17 players from the 2005 draft have reached double A or higher, and i might be missing one or two; any of you draft experts out there know if that’s a high number for one draft? sure sounds high to me.
2 recs |
391 comments
Email
Print
Comments
I still dread Wainwright being used as a closer
What an enormous waste of our #1 pitcher.
Here’s hoping Izzy finds the mojo and Waino doesn’t need to close. I’m not holding my breath.
by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2008 9:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Breakdown
Shouldn’t we look at Izzy’s performance to see how it compares to, say, last year and pre-DL this year? In June, he had a 1.74 ERA in 10 IP while opponents hit .256 against him. In July, he had a 6.25 ERA in 8.2 IP while opponents batted for a lower-than-July average of .235. This is tempered by 4 IP in the last 7 days with a 2.25 ERA and .143 BAA. So, I assumed that Dunc and TLR are looking at the last 7 days and 4 IP as some sort of indicator that he has returned to form?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would assume that as well
He has looked pretty good the past few times out, albeit not in save type situations. As Al said on the broadcast last night, for this team to go anywhere, Izzy really needs to find himself and begin pitching like he did a year ago.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 29, 2008 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which would include being very lucky on batted balls
Last year, Izzy lucked into a career low .226 BABIP. His career average BABIP is .290 and next-lowest BABIP season total was in 2006 at .247. This year, he has had a .314 BABIP. If it falls a few points, he’ll be better, but will he be as good as the Cards need to make a playoff run? I don’t know…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
considering
how much worse the defense was a year ago, I guess you could call that “wishing on stars” lucky in 2007.
I don’t know if he’ll be great, but anything better than what the club has had the past 6 weeks has got to be better, right? (I’m crossing my fingers….)
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 29, 2008 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In Franklin's defense (I can't believe I'm typing this)
His last ten appearances have been the problem. He’s what 14/20 on save opportunities with 5 of his 6 blown saves coming in his last 10 chances. He actually somewhat stabilized the 9th right after taking over the “closer” job. He’s just unravelled right before our eyes, which isn’t terribly surprising, given that re-signing him was, to borrow your phrase, “wishing on lucky starts” that Franklin would maintain the outcomes he produced last year, his career aberration year. The re-signing of both Franklin and Izzy were 50/50 bets by Mo. Both are getting up there, have lots of mileage, and were incredibly lucky one year ago.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just a slight quibble
Neither Franklin nor Izzy were re-signed by Mo. Izzy is playing out the end of a long term deal, and Franklin was extended last summer by Jocketty. The Franklin deal, in particular, was a terrible bet, in my ever so humble opinion, but Mozeliak didn’t place that bet.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
I thought we extended Franklin after season’s end. My bad.
As for Izzy, didn’t we exercise a club option for this year?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
Made sense at the time. The guy did sport a 2.48 ERA (177 ERA+, second highest of his career) last year and we didn’t really have any other apparent options. There wasn’t much debate about it at the time. It seemed like a no-brainer.
by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and that goes to show
that you don’t resign relievers to multiyear contracts unless they have proven they can be one of those shutdown relievers for more than half a season
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 29, 2008 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
We had a 8 million dollar option that Mo picked up as interim GM.
by outraged on Jul 29, 2008 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you're right.
Mo is responsible for picking up the Izzy option. My bad.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Umm
I think Mo actually negotiated with Franklin, he was the assistant GM. He made lots of the moves people blame Jocketty for. The question is how much input did he have.
by StLHugo on Jul 29, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoah now
Mo didn’t “make lots of moves”—nobody has the authority to make a move except the GM. If a player is signed under a GM, it means they approved the contract. Jocketty is ultimately responsible for the bad contracts signed under him because he approved them. Maybe someone else below him cooked them up, but it’s his job to review them and make the final decision (presumably in tandem with ownership). Whether Mo negotiated or not, this one falls squarely on Jock. It was his job to approve good contracts and reject bad ones, regardless of who in the organization came up with them.
by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said he didnt have approval
but lots of the deals were worked by Mo, people are willing to give him credit for Ludwick but not willing to damn him for his bad moves.
by StLHugo on Jul 29, 2008 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't agree with your perspective here
Whether the deals were worked by Mo or not, it’s still not his “fault.” Jocketty’s job as GM is to oversee and have the final say. If it’s a bad contract, it’s his job to say no, regardless of whether Mo worked it or whoever.
Now that responsibility falls to Mo. If John Abbamondi works up a poor contract, Mo has to say yes or no. His job is to evaluate the deal. If Mo is on board with a crappy deal, that’s his fault, regardless of who negotiated it. That’s the responsibility to comes with being a GM.
by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Blame both
Yes Walt approved the deal but if Mo also wanted the deal and worked it, why aren’t both to blame? Is your boss to blame for all your bad decisions at work? Just because he approved them? Yes the boss normally takes the fall but that doesn’t mean it was all on him to begin with. All I was getting at was that we can’t act as if Mo had nothing what so ever to do with some of the deals that we rag on Walt for.
by StLHugo on Jul 29, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, the boss takes the fall
It’s the boss’ job. His job is to be responsible for approving your decisions. If you go crazy and do something without his approval, sure, that’s on you—but, of course, Mo couldn’t go signing people on his own anyway. But once the boss stamps it with his seal of approval, it’s on him. That’s the burden of being in charge.
I think we have a difference in philosophy, that’s all. Did Mo possibly have something to do with the bad contracts? Possibly. But is he at fault at all? Not really. The GM ultimately approves the contracts, so it’s his call one way or another. Thus, his responsibility, and his “fault.”
by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that fine
Then people need to stop giving credit to Mo for Ludwick.
by Evilfrog on Jul 29, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
I can’t imagine MO or anyone else is just out there negotiating with players and then walks up to Jock and says “Hey, look what I just did.”
More than likely, Jock told MO (or whoever, are we positive it was MO?) to work on a deal with a player. So, MO does. That’s his job. He didn’t make the decisions, he simply served as a surrogate to Jock more than likely checking with him virtually every step of the way and within the organizations and Jock’s plans.
by Tackle Box on Jul 29, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You beat me by like a second.
Booo.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, that's possible.
But, like you said, we don’t know how much input he had. Any moves made on a GM’s tenure have to be attributed to the GM. He has the final say in player moves. Whether or not Mozeliak did the actual contract negotiations is irrelevant. The decision to extend Franklin, and any other players, came from the General Manager of the team.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very True
but we don’t know if Mo talked Walt into it or not. We do know that Mo negotiated it and that Walt signed off on it. But saying that Mo had nothing to do with the move is shortsighted.
by StLHugo on Jul 29, 2008 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
by that logic, you can’t ever hold anyone accountable for anything.
“Well, yeah, it was a bad deal, but I’m pretty sure he got talked into it by somebody else.”
The CEO of a corporation is responsible for the moves his company makes while he is in charge. He is the ultimate authority. Now, you can talk about outside pressures and all that sort of stuff, but it is still his decision. Unless someone underneath him makes a move without his knowledge (and I’m pretty sure that didn’t happen here), the head of the corporation is the guy that makes the moves.
Excusing him because somebody else might have talked him into it doesn’t make sense.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never said Walt wasn't responsible
I was just saying that Mo might share some of it
by StLHugo on Jul 29, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing for sure. They certainly bought high.
I just wonder if they realized that at the time.
A rather large majority of relievers are inconsistent from year to year. It’s not too good of an idea to give them 3 year contracts…...
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 29, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, also
Mozeliak didn’t just begin negotiations with Franklin on his own, and then suddenly one day present Jocketty with a contract and go, “Hey, this is a good idea, Walt. Sign here, please.”
The decision to extend Franklin was already made before the negotiations took place. Who made that decision? Well, one has to assume it was the General Manager.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
That is why I said “The question is how much input did he have.” Did Mo want to extend him and talk the front office into it? Or was it all Walt wanting to extend? I am not trying to say that Mo was rogue and did things outside of Walt I was just saying that he had a hand in it as the Assistant GM. It was a very simple statement blow way out of proportion.
by StLHugo on Jul 29, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Happy Breakout Game (Hopefully), Joe Mather
The bench bat with damage potential could be Joe Mather. I realize that he was beating up on a AAA pitcher, which he has done a lot of this year. Nonetheless, last night’s bomb was an absolute blast and he threw in a double and single to boot. Of course, there were also two strikeouts. Still, his K% in AAA was 17%, which is far lower than Ankiel’s one year ago. It’ll be interesting to see how he does with regular playing time due to Duncan and Ankiel’s injuries.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 9:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mather
He seems a lot like Ankiel, in that he absolutely hammers breaking pitches that get left in the zone, but struggles against good breaking stuff and fastballs away. I guess there are certain guys who make a living like that though (think Alfonso Soriano). It would be nice to see him finally get it at the big league level, considering the outfield injuries that we’re dealing with. It would also make him a nice trading chip in the offseason when the club is looking for a starter or middle infielder.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 29, 2008 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But can't Mather have a little time to SEE if he can make the adjustments?
I mean, geez, he’s not hitting .300 with 29 bombs after 60 or so at bats? No soup for you!
I like his game. I’d like to see a little more before they say bye-bye. I’d like to see a little more before they claim he’s no good.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 29, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because you trade someone does not mean you think he is no good...
by ICbirdfan on Jul 29, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't claiming he was no good
Just saying that he seems a lot like Ankiel from the right handed side of the plate.
If he gets progressively better with more playing time, it frees us up to trade him or someone else in the outfield. Right now he doesn’t have a lot of value, but if he has a good couple of months, he could be a valuable commodity for a team looking for a corner outfielder—the Cardinals have plenty at this point.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 29, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also don't understand
how Comparing someone to Ankiel is saying he isn’t good.
Ankiel has a .890 OPS in 348 ABs. I mean, he can improve his strike outs a bit. He isn’t Pujols. But I won’t call him bad.
by Evilfrog on Jul 29, 2008 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nice post LB
Well written – I’m not a statty typeguy, but you broke it down for me dawg. I’d like to see the chart for Wagonmakers curveball when he comes back…
I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck
by bukowski on Jul 29, 2008 9:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It'll take a month to get half of that data...
...what with him as the future closer and all. Wait, is Isringhausen the closer now? I thought it was Franklin…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 9:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Izzy?
I’m having a nightmare, right? I’m going to wake up and find out that we lost to the Braves in the 9th inning but Izzy is not the closer. Right? Right?
by birdjam on Jul 29, 2008 9:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Izzy has been throwing better than Franklin.....
So I have no problems with this decision. Stick Izzy back there, keep trying to get another bullpen arm, and decide on Waino in two weeks.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2008 9:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Right on...
but at the same time, he’s willing to pull Franklin from the job when he’s struggling, will he be willing to pull Izzy from the job again? He worries about egos so much that I don’t know if he will…
Go Crazy Folks, Go Crazy!!!
by joshbaz12 on Jul 29, 2008 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"No problems" with this decision?
Seriously? I can buy the argument that he has been throwing better than Franklin (damning him with faint praise,) but you don’t have any problems with Izzy as the closer?
by birdjam on Jul 29, 2008 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm buying into that decision
Mostly because we just have a total lack of better options at this point in the season. We’re certainly not trading for a closer, a LOOGY seems more likely and, after Villone’s performance last night and Flores’ performance on Sunday, a much more needed boost to the pen. I’d like to see Springer close, but it’s been pointed out that he can’t pitch on back to back days, so then it’s closer by committee again, which hasn’t worked. I think McClellan is too valuable in the middle innings as a guy who can some in situationally AND go more 5-6 outs in an appearance. Franklin just doesn’t have the mentality and needs to be a set-up guy, and we all know that Thompson is cut out for long relief. So that leaves Izzy and gives him a chance to hit that 300 save milestone.
I think you have to give him another shot out there and just hope he can find his cut fastball that’s pretty well eluded him all season. It has looked decent the last few appearances.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 29, 2008 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok, ive had enough
will someone tell me what LOOGY is so that i can understand whats going on? ... its been used a whole lot the past month.
by krippledmaster on Jul 29, 2008 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lefty One Out GuY
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Lefty One-Out Guy"
It’s a lefty reliever that you bring in situationally to retire a lefthanded hitting opponent.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thankyou
that makes me happy.
by krippledmaster on Jul 29, 2008 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I had to ask the same thing
a few weeks ago.
There’s a long, detailed history of the LOOGY at Hardball Times, if you’re interested. Multi-parts. (Not assuming you would be that interested. Just sayin’.) Tony LaRussa is one of the managers who have made the most use of lefty one-out guys.
by Youneverknow on Jul 29, 2008 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TLR is basically given credit for pioneering the role
How much that is true, I’m not sure. But there it is.
by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Villone...
did what he is SUPPOSED to do last night…come in and get out the lefties…he struck out both Norton and Blanco. Unfortunately Tony left him in to face the RH Escobar (basehit), SH Texiera (double) and RH Prado (walk) who hit for Ring. It’s obvious to all of us that Villone should never pitch TO a RH’d batter…I’m okay with him pitching around one if there’s another lefty to follow, but righties hit him like batting practice.
by cardzfanbub on Jul 29, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im all for it.
Im putting down my Mulderaid and picking up an Izzy Colada. This can only result in a posistive compared to franklin closing. Best case senario is Izzy is effective. Worst case puts Wainwright as the closer. Im not down for that.
by Evilfrog on Jul 29, 2008 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you like Izzy Coladas
Getting caught in the rain
....of bombs to the bleachers
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 29, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not much into ground balls
I am into blown saves
by Ray Lankford on Jul 29, 2008 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't have any other options right now.....
Who else do you stick there? Springer doesn’t have the durability to close at this point in his career. Kmac has struggled recently, and probably doesn’t need that type of role his first year. Perez isn’t ready. It’s Izzy or Franklin until we trade for somebody, or Waino is ready.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2008 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mix-and-Match of Springer and McClellan
That would be my strategy. Slide Franklin and Izzy into their roles and bring Perez up to share some of those opportunities as well.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or how about thinking outside the box?
Isn’t that TLR’s alleged specialty? How about removing the pressure/stigma of being “THE closer” by using different guys depending on the situation?
by birdjam on Jul 29, 2008 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How does that solve the problem exactly?
So instead of blowing leads in the 9th, we’ll blow them in the 7th or 8th?
I have a feeling this is going to sort itself out. I really think Izzy is going to get some pretty decent results this time around, even if it isn’t always pretty.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2008 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lower leverage situations
Look, I’d be trying to dump the two of them, don’t get me wrong. But, that’s not going to happen. If you use Izzy, in particular, in lower leverage situations-i.e., with less threatening batters coming up-you can make him somewhat useful. The same with Franklin. Given their ages and mileage, they need a lesser load, and moving them down in the pecking order while also using them more selectively would give us a chance to at least reap some benefit from their salaries and roster spots. It would also give us a better opportunity to win, IMO.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
given their ages...
springer is older though.
by adiueordie on Jul 29, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ages **and mileage**
Springer career IP: 780.2
Izzy career IP: 901.2
Franklin career IP: 1,018.2
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some of this troubles me
We don’t have better options? Who says Springer doesn’t have the durability? He’s pitched on back-to-back days 8 times this year + going 3 days in a row once. He’s not a horse but neither is Izzy at this stage in his career.
Kmac has struggled recently? Says who? His July OPS against is .670 and he’s given up 5 ER in 13 IP. Izzy’s given up a .774 OPS against in July and has given up 6 ER in 8.2 IP. If the barometer is “who’s pitching well right now?”—McClellan or Springer is the answer. Why doesn’t McClellan need that type of role in his first year? Wainwright did just fine.
I’ll agree that we’re just going to have to stick someone back there and hope for the best, but I see no reason why it couldn’t, or shouldn’t be McClellan or Springer.
by chuckb on Jul 29, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Personally, I’d stick McClellan back there, unless a high leverage situation vs. the opposition’s heart featuring a LHB is to be had in, say, the 8th. Then, the 8th would be McClellan’s and the 9th would be Springer’s. Also, since McClellan has had at least one, and I believe two, elbow surgeries, I might limit his workload a bit more than the normal closer, giving Springer more opportunities.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe that exactly is why you don't see Springer or (more likely) McClellan
named the closer. I honesly believe LaRussa wants to keep those two guys available to be able to bail out the team when needed. By slotting them into the 9th inning, you take away that flexibility.
But, what I’m confused by in your comment is that you’d make McClellan the closer unless something came up earlier in the game that was a higher leverage situation. Well, either you name him the closer or you don’t. In this case, you’re basically using a bullpen by committee, which with this bullpen isn’t entirely out of the question.
by Tackle Box on Jul 29, 2008 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not unheard of, but it is rare
I think that the 9th should McClellan’s unless the game hinges on a situation earlier in the game. If we need 3 outs against 2-3-4 of the Brewers’ order, as a hypothetical, in the 8th inning, then bring in McClellan for the 8th since that is when he is most-needed. However, if we’re ahead 3-2 in the 9th, bring in McClellan. It is a shift from “closer” to best reliever in highest leverage situation philosophy, which is kind of a committee approach.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The only issue I have with that
is you might be unnecessarily using McClellan in a 2 or 3 run save situation when you might need him to bail your ass out tomorrow. One could make the point that someone like McClellan (like Carlos Marmol in Chicago) is much more valuable to the team than the closer. I honesly believe the 9th inning is an extremely difficult inning to pitch and you need someone with moxy to fill that role. But there’s another personality that can thrive in that role that is a little more chaotic.
Anyway, with the state of our pitching staff and it’s 6 inning (at best) starts and complete uncertainty in the bullpen, I’d prefer to keep McClellan and Springer as un-labeled as far as the bullpen goes. I’d hate to use one of them in a 3 run save sitation when the starting pitcher could go 5 innings the next day and you’ve got Villone and Flores and company available to save the day.
by Tackle Box on Jul 29, 2008 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't that true
about the 2 or 3 run save situation with ANY save situation? The team who’s ahead by 3 in the 9th is going to win something like 90-95% of the time. If the Yanks use Rivera or the Sox use Papelbon, might they “unnecessarily” be using him?
by chuckb on Jul 29, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but Rivera is always saved for the 9th
If you’re bouncing a player around from 9th inning role to “holy shit! get us out of here” role, which one is more important?
Would you want to waste your “holy shit! get us the hell out of here” guy on a 25 pitch effort the day before when the team was up by 3 runs?
by Tackle Box on Jul 29, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I totally agree...
Springer should be our closer until he proves he can’t handle it…he strikes out a guy per inning and is VERY consistent. I still like KMac as the high-leverage late inning guy.
by cardzfanbub on Jul 29, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I was just thinking, “When was it ever said Springer couldn’t pitch on back-to-back days?”
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 29, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it is pyschological too.....
They were talking about it on the broadcast last night.
Maybe if you move Kmac or Springer to the closer role, they too can’t handle it. I don’t believe Springer has ever closed before in his career. Think there might be a reason for that?
I just love how everybody thinks they have the answer. I’m sure TLR and Dunc have considered every option mentioned on this board. And in the longterm, if they think sticking Izzy back out there is the best thing for the team, I’m inclined to trust them. Why wouldn’t I? They want to win worse then we do. It is their reputation on the line. And they know the situation 1000x better than any of us.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2008 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trust
I think it has been pretty well demontstrated that the one area you really can’t trust TLR/Dunc is when they are attempting to objectively evaluate players they have confidence in. Having confidence in an obviously struggling and injured Izzy almost completely ruined the ‘06 season. Having confidence in a struggling Duncan has certainly hurt the team this season and last.
It seems like in half of Izzy’s outings he tops out at 88mph and he doesn’t generally seem to have very good control any more. He is a grease fire waiting to happen. McClellan at least deserves to be in the mix since he has the best stuff in the bullpen, hasn’t been squeamish is key situations, and, most importantly TLR and Dunc like him.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 29, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Springer
has 8 saves. None since 2001, and never more than 3 in any season.
by adiueordie on Jul 29, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they can't handle it
but we know that Franklin can’t handle it and there’s every reason to be suspicious of Izzy’s ability to handle it—seeing as how he’s having trouble getting anyone out now. What we know is that McClellan and Springer are our 2 best relievers and the 9th inning usually presents the highest-leverage relief situation. Doesn’t it stand to reason that you’d want your best out there in the toughest situation?
BTW, why do you always criticize others for thinking they have the answer but never criticize yourself for knowing you have the right answer?
by chuckb on Jul 29, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never claim to have the right answer.....
My claim is usually that TLR and Duncan know MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more about the situation, have a better track record, and have more at stake than any of us. I trust that there is a reason, beyond stubborness, to their decisions.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
grrrr
however many years of major league experience LaRussa and Duncan have is exactly that many more seasons than I do. I grant the point.
But if they can’t see that Izzy is terrible and untrustworthy, they are not applying that experience very well.
To me, Interestinghausen will always remain the (reverse) MVP of the ‘06 season. When he finally manned up and took himself out (which LaRussa stunningly did not have the guts to do)... then and only then, via the heroics of Wainwright and others, did the bullpen finally rebound and we managed to hang on to win the division.
by the Tewk on Jul 29, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was argued during the offseason
that saving your best relief pitcher for the 9th inning was misguided since often a much greater leveraged situation might come up in the 6th inning (or 7th, or 8th, etc.) with men on base or something as opposed to the beginning of the 9th with no men on base?
Also, I know people bitched about Franklin not being used in an extra-inning game a couple months ago (Boston, right?) stating that he was the best pitcher and you are shooting yourself in the foot because in order to have a save situation, you’ve got to get to a save situation and in order to do so, you should pitch your best pitchers. Not exactly the same situation being in extras and all, but it does have some parallels.
I know I’m not making it up. And I’m not saying it was you HC who made the argument. But I know the argument was made. Besides, you can’t say that the 9th usually presents the highest-leverage situation. Are you saying that the 9th inning inherintly has more pressure than innings 1 through 8? How so? Unless you want to talk about clutch and pressure situations, then I don’t know how that argument can be made.
I hear people laugh when the notion is brought up that the last 3 outs of a ballgame are the hardest outs to get. Three outs are three outs right?
by Tackle Box on Jul 29, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember that post as well durning the off season.....
It sound good in theory but you can’t run a bull pen that way especially the current pen where you have weak spots.
What if the 5th inning developes into a high leverage situation? Should KMac get up and come in the game then…. What if another situation arises in the 8th inning and you want Springer to close…
It’s just not really possible to try to run a bull pen in that fashion. Some guys don’t get lose as fast as others and they have specific routines to warm up…...
In theory I agree 100% that some nights the 9th inning is easier inning to pitch than the 6th inning, but it’s too hard to predict things.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 29, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There are times
, for example, in the 7th or 8th inning when the leverage index is higher than it is in the 9th, you are correct. However, the game’s highest leverage situation comes up in the 9th more frequently than any other time in the game. It makes sense to use your closer for more than 1 inning at times—to get out of a two on, 1 out situation in the 8th where he’s left in to finish the 9th, for example. Laugh all you want or follow a fangraphs live game or read about leverage or whatever. This is about clutch or pressure situations or whatever you want to call it.
Refusing to bring your closer into the 2 on, 1 out situation up 1 in the 8th is silly.
As for the Boston game, I don’t know what the hell you’re talking about but I’m not for saving your best reliever for a save situation in extra innings that may never arrive. Use your best reliever. How is a win on his record not as good as a save?
by chuckb on Jul 29, 2008 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
3 different statements about closer
sounds like smokescreens to me. why they would do it, I have no idea. but could they all be on different pages at this level? doesn’t seem like it…
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 29, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like a way to confuse other GM's
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 29, 2008 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
that’s what I thought
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 29, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very nice LB
I’ve been talking about this with the guys at work since his injury. There is absolutely no consistency. Not only is it in the velocity of his slider, but the downward movement as well. When the first slider he throws is flat and over the plate, he tries to make an adjustment and the next is buried in the dirt. Tough to overcome mid season but at least it isn’t as big of a feel pitch as a changeup, which he doesn’t have either. I think that’s why this is a glaring problem for Todd right now. There’s no third pitch to get him through.
Go Crazy Folks, Go Crazy!!!
by joshbaz12 on Jul 29, 2008 9:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
That is a really ugly chart on the slider. I particularly look at the wide range of speeds he’s thrown the last couple of games with it. That huge spread, coupled with the lower than ever velo on the pitch in the last game, just screams out that this is a pitcher who can’t break off a good spinner at the moment. That last one, especially, is obviously a pitcher who’s trying to guide the ball, baby it in there rather than just snapping it off as he previously did.
Thanks a ton to Mr. Kalk for doing those charts. His database and player cards are absolutely amazing.
Let me add my congrats to Tyler Greene as well. A year or two ago, Greene looked like a completely busted prospect. Maybe he’s finally starting to put his obvious talents to good use. Of course, I’ll always look at that draft pick and think of what might have been if another kid hadn’t had a bad predraft workout…
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 9:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Um, who is this other kid you speak of?
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 29, 2008 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, i'm curious too...
please don’t tell me we were this close to drafting hanley ramirez or something!
by mattybobo on Jul 29, 2008 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In 2005
the Cardinals really, really wanted Jay Bruce with their first pick. Left handed hitting outfielder who could possibly play center, etc. They were looking for Edmonds’ successor, essentially. The only problem was that Bruce had zero chance of getting to the Cards at 28 (the pick they got from the Red Sox for signing Edgar, btw. This does sort of factor in a bit later), so they started looking for the most comparable player they could find. They settled on a high school outfielder named Colby Rasmus. Worked out pretty okay, no?
Anyway, they were also looking at pitching, as they of course always do. The Cards’ scouts absolutely fell in love with this HS righthander from Texas. He had some makeup issues, had been into some trouble with the law, but the scouts thought they had a great read on him, and that he had just fallen in with a bad crowd, and all that stuff. Well, the Cards settled on Rasmus at 28. Then, at 30, their own pick in the draft, they were going to draft this kid. If Rasmus happened to be gone at 28, the pitcher was their backup plan.
Two weeks before the draft, the Cards had several players in to Busch Stadium for a personal workout. These kids worked out on the field, met the front office people, did some interviews, all that sort of stuff. Well, this kid that the Cardinals had settled on at 30, the righthander, had an awful workout that day. Nobody knows why exactly, but he did. Could have been under the weather, could have been jet lagged, could have just had a bad day. Whatever. Anyway, the Cards’ brass comes away from this nervous about the kid, and justifiably so, really. Luhnow and others had seen him before, and been impressed, of course, but the last thing you see always stays in your mind, right?
Fast forward to draft day. The Cards get Rasmus at 28 and are ecstatic. Then comes their pick at #30. Well, the kid they like all along is sitting there, just waiting to be taken. They love his stuff, love his numbers, really just genuinely like the kid. Seems like a nice kid, made some bad choices, but hey, who hasn’t? Still, though, that bad workout is fresh in everybody’s mind.
At the last second, the Cards decide to stay away from the pitcher. What if he’s hurt, what if he flames out, blah blah blah, all the reasons you hear not to draft high schoolers. The Cards decide to go a safer route and take a college position player, a shortstop named Tyler Greene. He’s had a good history of hitting with wood bats, even though his college numbers are very inconsistent. Shortstop is a definite position of need, hey, it’s a defensible choice.
They decide they’ll take Greene now. Hopefully, this other kid will still be there in the supplemental round, and they’ll snag him then.
Well, the Cardinals ended up taking Mark McCormick in the supp. round that year, a college righty out of Baylor, because the kid they really liked went one spot ahead of them, to the Boston Red Sox. (Told you the Red Sox would come back in later) They missed the guy they really liked by one spot. Well, Greene got hurt, McCormick sucked and then got hurt, and the kid the Red Sox got didn’t do so bad.
His name? Clay Buccholz.
(That was my best Paul Harvey impression. Hope you liked it.)
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you, the red baron.
I did not know that. Excuse me. I’m going to be sick…...
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 29, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
You ruined my day. Of course, it is likely that Duncan would not like Buccholz’s attitude and relegate him to work on his two-seam fastball and getting groundballs in AAA. So, that makes me feel somewhat better about that organizational decision.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah. Sorry, guys.
It was still an amazing draft, though. We got Colby, B. Anderson, Garcia, Tyler Herron, and Daryl Jones out of it, right? It’s not like the 2004 draft, with the whole Phil Hughes/ Chris Lambert thing.
Still, I always find it really fascinating to look at all the little missed opportunities and things like that that you find in sports, stuff like Vince Lombardi not being offered the head coaching gig by the Giants and that stuff. The draft is perhaps the single greatest opportunity we have to do that.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely
Plus, it also shows how difficult projecting players is to do. Look at where Pujols went. Yet, also look at where A-Rod went. It’s very interesting.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to say
If we’re looking at Draft sob stories, look at the dozens (hundreds) of players picked before Albert. You talk about lucking out on a draft! StL got a player in the 13th round that they will build their franchise around for FIFTEEN YEARS. Amazing
"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."
by BigMOman on Jul 29, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i believe it was Otto von Bismarck who famously declared...
that “God has a special providence for fools, drunks, and [the Saint Louis Cardinals].”
this is perhaps a slight paraphrase.
by mattybobo on Jul 29, 2008 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, but
that’s so random. Everybody passed on Pujols a ton. I’m only really interested in the stories that have a specific link between the team and the mistake in them. It’s so much more deliciously eviscerational that way, don’t you think?
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
who did we pass on to draft kozma?
how’s that kid doing these days?
by mattybobo on Jul 29, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Porcello
2.83ERA 1.17WHIP in 105IP for A+
by StLHugo on Jul 29, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kozma by comparison
.284/.360/.393 .753OPS (lgOPS is .696)
by StLHugo on Jul 29, 2008 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We passed on
Rick Porcello, Michael Main, and (my favourite of the bunch), Tim Alderson.
Porcello, of course, went to the Tigers at 24, Main went to the Rangers at about 21, and Alderson went to San Francisco at like 23, I believe. Don’t hold me to those exactly, except Porcello. I think the other two went in the early twenties, though.
Alderson is going to be special.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So is Porcello, imo
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 29, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My favorite gut wrencher
was the 2000 draft when we picked a 2b by the name of Shaun Boyd with the 13th overall pick and the next 2b taken (at 15) was Chase Utley. Sigh
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 29, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ugh.
....my quick smells like french toast...
by mstreeter06 on Jul 29, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
man.
red baron sure did rip open some painful old draft wounds, didn’t he. what a sadist!
by mattybobo on Jul 29, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think red baron might be okay
as long as you don’t put “the” in front of it.
jk
by Tackle Box on Jul 29, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For the record...
You guys can call me whatever you want. (I realise I’m opening myself up to a lot of things here, but I’m okay with that.)
I just didn’t want Jill, or anyone else, to feel obligated to type the whole thing out. Whatever’s easy is fine by me.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I get it, but is eviscerational even a real word?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 29, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it isn't, it should be ,though.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 29, 2008 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols
The cards traded for a player (cant remember player or team) and dont have time to research but one of the players the Cards offered to Team X in exchange for Player A was King Albert. Obviously, Team X did not choose wisely.
by njnick on Jul 29, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Believe it was Kansas City
who, for the 2nd time, said no to Albert (he went to HS near KC).
by Tackle Box on Jul 29, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Braves
tried to sign him the season before we did, too, I think.
by liam on Jul 29, 2008 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
?
The cards drafted Pujols.
Not sure I’m followin’.
by Tackle Box on Jul 29, 2008 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lambert may yet salvage his career
he’s 10-6 at triple A this year with a 3.42 era, striking out 7.5 men per 9 innings and pitching with much better control. . . . . leads the league in complete games with 3, tied for 5th in wins, 8th in strikeouts, 10th in era. still only 25 years old, the same age as mitch boggs.
by lboros on Jul 29, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True.
But we ended up with a Mike Maroth rental for him. Whatever he turns into, it isn’t going to help us any.
Six years of cost controlled Philip Hughes
or
Three months of Mike Maroth?
Ouch.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So,
it wasn’t an awful decision to draft Lambert, but an idiotic one to trade him for Mike Maroth?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No.
Trading him was a fine idea, as, at the time, you didn’t think he was ever going to be anything worthwhile. Drafting him was the bad decision.
I probably shouldn’t have gone with the Mike Maroth angle; it doesn’t add anything to the discussion of what kind of mistake it was to draft him. I just always go right for the salt in the wound moment.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Poor Mike Maroth
Seemed like such a cool dude… whats he doing this year anyway?
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2008 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mowing lawns
He’s actually in Omaha, pitching for the Royals AAA affiliate. Although, he may have been released since his ERA was approaching 13.00 at least check.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he made three starts for the omaha royals
and went 0-2 with a 12.91 era, then apparently was released . . .. .
by lboros on Jul 29, 2008 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He has a website
“The Official Site of Mike Maroth”
His rehabbing after shoulder surgery.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed, we get nothing out of the deal
it hurts no matter what. but if lambert does make it to the bigs and can stick even as a back-end starter, it makes the draft-day decision a little less awful. it’s an error of talent evaluation no matter how you slice it, but a far more terrible error imho if the guy flames out at double A.
by lboros on Jul 29, 2008 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, you're right.
Trading him doesn’t really factor in.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lambert = Mike Parisi
In terms of stuff.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 29, 2008 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is that right?
I’ll be damned. Good for him. How’s Mike Maroth doing this year?
by chuckb on Jul 29, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at least we didn't miss out on Volquez or something
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 29, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also,
you don’t have to type ‘the red baron’. It’s just clumsy. Just call me RB, or Aaron. Easier that way.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, RB. Just trying to be polite and all.....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 29, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, I know.
Just seems like a waste of keystrokes. Also, it just looks weird to have a ‘the’ in the middle of a sentence like that.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That may be my absolute favourite post of yours, RB.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 29, 2008 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
Because of the number of keystrokes I typically waste?
(I would use a winking emoticon here, but I’m too self concious to do so.)
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay. Now that made me laugh. Thank you!
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 29, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Absolutely!
There IS a touch of comedy involved when you reccomend that we save our keystrokes! :)
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 29, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well,
I subscribe to the theory that there is a limited number of keystrokes in the entire universe. I tell you to conserve, so that I may use more. Sort of like the environmentalist driving a Hummer.
Now that you’ve discovered my plan, my flying ninja monkey deathsquads will be by shortly.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I appreciate the humour, the colourful language, and I may use
your “keystroke theory” to start a conversation next time I’m stuck in a classroom of 5th graders-all of you teachers out there please be on time to relieve the instructional aides!
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 29, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And now, the rest of the story...
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 29, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2005 Draft
I just perused through the online draft database over at Baseball Reference for the current NL Central teams over the last 30 years or so. Obviously it doesn’t list what level guys played at in the minors, but just judging on how many guys from that Cardinal class have played in the big leagues (or are expected to), it’s by far the most successful draft that the Cards have had since around 1980, and probably one of the more successful drafts of any team in the division in that time span as well. There have been some drafts that had more impactful players than the Cardinal class at this point, but I think you’d have to assume that this class could produce impact players yet what with Rasmus, Greene, and Anderson still in the minors, and Garcia and Boggs just tasting the majors this year and clearly not ready to be regulars. Those five guys, if they play to potential, could be on big league rosters for at least 5-7 years for someone.
Regardless, if you look at the drafts since Luhnow came aboard versus the ones from 1996 to that point, it’s obvious that we have more talent and depth in the system over the last few years—most of it coming via the draft. This is a good sign for the long term!
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 29, 2008 9:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
How many drafts has Lunhow overseen?
Was 2005 his to execute?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure it was
He was definitely involved, at least. This is the most definite thing I can find, via an interview intro from BP:Jeff Luhnow is the St. Louis Cardinals’ vice president of amateur scouting and player development, a dual position that he has held since September, 2006. A 41-year-old graduate of the Wharton School of Business who earned an MBA from Northwestern University, Luhnow joined the Cardinals organization in 2003.
So I guess that indicates the he wasn’t yet in his current position, but I think he was around.
by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2008 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
IIRC
2005 was his first draft, though I could be wrong
by StLHugo on Jul 29, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it definitely was his first draft
mozeliak ran the 2004 draft
by lboros on Jul 29, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This would seem to support Jocketty's ouster, then
As I recall, there was a bit of a rift b/t Walter and Lunhow.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent stuff on Wellemeyer
I was worried a couple of starts ago when I looked at some of his numbers - pre-injury and post-injury. I expected to find him reverting to his old habits - throwing a lot of balls and fewer strikes. What I found concerned me. I noticed that his strike rate hadn’t really changed after the injury. He was throwing about 63% of his pitches for strikes both before and after the injury, yet he was struggling. So what was the problem?
I think your analysis may give us some insight about why he was struggling. Rather than being wild outside the zone and walking a bunch of people, he seems to have been wild inside the zone, thus being a lot more hittable. He’s having trouble locating his pitches but he doesn’t want to walk anyone so he ends up getting hit a lot harder—thus the poor numbers since his injury. It gives me some comfort that he doesn’t appear to be injured and, if he can figure out location once, he can surely do it again, right? Hopefully tonight’s the night. The Braves’ lineup is so bad right now that he could really shut them down and pitch deep into the game if he can gain better control of that slider.
by chuckb on Jul 29, 2008 9:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Injury-related, but not injured?
Looking at it to me, makes me wonder if the injury has made The Colonel weary of snapping off the slider the way he was in May, resulting in a wide variation of speeds. It seems like he doesn’t want to let ‘er snap on the slider, and that may be the problem.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It may have made him wary of snapping off that slider
but if everyone says he’s healthy, and control of the slider seems to be the issue, I’m willing to go along w/ the line that he is healthy. And, if he’s healthy, the control issues can be fixed (hopefully).
by chuckb on Jul 29, 2008 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm optimistic on that front, too
I’m, perhaps, projecting my experiences coming off of injuries onto The Colonel, where you don’t feel all that comfortable doing things the way you did pre-injury after the injury. It takes a little time and, from my view in the stands versus San Diego, he looked like he had re-discovered the magic. I wonder if there is pitchFX data inning-by-inning for that start?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Welley
I think you’re onto something HC. Didn’t he get hit pretty hard in spring training? His first few starts this season were nothing to write home about either, but he wasn’t walking people like he did in 2007. Looking at the charts, his range on the slider was pretty bad early in the year (first four starts) as well, then shortened up a bit in the middle of the season when he was pitching pretty well.
Maybe it has something to do with having a really live arm and not being able to control his breaking stuff until he gets into a run of consecutive starts and into his between start routine. I know he was pumping the ball up around 96-97 in his last start, and he really had trouble locating his fastball and slider in that game, but the data for that start isn’t on the chart. Tonight’s start will be his 6th consecutive start, and that’s the point, when counting from the beginning of the season, that he started to work things out. That corresponds to the beginning of May, when he pitched well enough to be the NL pitcher of the month. Wouldn’t it be nice to have that Wellemeyer back for the month of August, with WW and Carp being back in the fold?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 29, 2008 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very good point
thanks to baseball-reference.com, he is getting hit much harder after the injury, which would coincide with what you’re saying houston. Not including the June 5 start, he was allowing just over 5 line drives per nine innings and now it’s just over 8. Also, HRs are up from .97HRs/9 to 1.5HRs/9. Scary stuff when you’re wild in the zone.
Go Crazy Folks, Go Crazy!!!
by joshbaz12 on Jul 29, 2008 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is borderline crazy
1. We’re still not putting the best pitcher in the 9th. I don’t agree with the concept of a closer but TLR adheres to it so I’m going to hold him to his criteria. Kyle McClellan should be closing. Instead we are back to Izzy.
2. (Insert TLR and rookies discussion)
3. The P-D article today certainly makes it sound like Izzy was grumbling about his role. That seems pretty disingenuous for someone who’s been awful this year. I expected more of him.
4. Congratulations to management on their inability to mend the schism that got Jocketty fired. The 3 most prominent faces in the big league club saying 3 different things within 24 hours of each other. It would be nice for DeWitt to decide who is actually in charge of this club. I almost don’t care who he picks so long as I know whose decisions it is I’m criticizing. This just doesn’t seem like an efficacious way to run a ballclub.
by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2008 10:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Rewarding Izzy's Behavior
This is the most bizarre thing. I know he is a veteran with a long track record of performing for the club, but, after his performance this season, where on earth does he get off lobbying to be the closer again? What’s worse, Duncan goes public the same day that TLR re-affirms Franklin. It’d be laughable if the season weren’t hinging on these decisions. Maybe Duncan is riding high in the saddle since he finally got Reyes sent off. (I feel that is a perfectly warranted shot at the pitching coach.)
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What really worries me are the
rumblings about Perez not meshing with the org. That already reeks of Reyes Part II.
by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2008 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's terrifying
He’s the prototypical closer. Granted, he needs some work, but how would he not mesh with TLR and Duncan? Is it his mid-90’s fastball and strike ‘em out mentality? Surely, they don’t want their closer to pitch to contact.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not put much stock in Bernie's rambling
He was waving the Perez flag from day one. Perez wasn’t sent down for no reason like Reyes. He was sent down to work on a pitch that was causing him to get hammered up in the bigs.
by Evilfrog on Jul 29, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Perez was really doing that badly.
In high leverage situations he was dominant (.481 OPS). For pitches 1-25 he was doing fine (.770 OPS). They wanted him to become a 2 inning guy who could cover the 6th and 7th innings. That doesn’t seem to jive with his path through the minors and his skillset.
He still has things to work on but I’m not sure Izzy or Franklin are better options to close right now.
by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree with that..
Perez was needed to cover 2 innings and it does not work for him. I think he is the type of guy you just need to let close if you are going to bring him up. If not let him work on his slider to get it more MLB ready at the AAA level.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 29, 2008 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Someone posted
...that Duncan wanted Perez to sub a curve for his slider. Where did that tidbit come from?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
spring training
But I dont think that is still the case.
by Evilfrog on Jul 29, 2008 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hopefully
And it would seem to not still be the case, since he was sent down specifically to work on his slider.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i would hope so.
THEN i would buy into the Perez is the new Reyes.
by Evilfrog on Jul 29, 2008 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spring training
That is when all pitchers experiment with different pitches. It’s stupid not to try new pitches then.
I think people get too worried about DD telling Perez to work on a curveball then. Maybe DD saw some arm action that would allow Perez to throw a curveball. I think Perez would be better throwing a change considering his arm angle does not seem to be curveball type.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 29, 2008 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But they still listed a reason for sending him down
unlike with Reyes
by saladdays on Jul 29, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wasn't Reyes continually sent
down to work on the 2 seamer? Didn’t Duncan think he couldn’t get by with throwing the 4?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 29, 2008 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From what I can get
Duncan thought Reyes had an awesome sinking fastball in warmups and bullpens, but wouldn’t use it in games and thought that he needed to work it into his gameplan.
by liam on Jul 29, 2008 9:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
are those rumblings
beyond what Bernie said yesterday? i mean, if it’s just Bernie i’m not going to worry about it just yet
by kalmavet on Jul 29, 2008 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Based on Bernie and circumstances
When you have Jimenez and Flores in the bullpen and name Izzy the starter while you send down Perez, it seems nonsensical. Since animus is irrational, that would seem to provide some rhyme to the org’s lack of reason.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Izzy the Starter...
Now that is scary ;)
by StLHugo on Jul 29, 2008 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, he was a starter for the mets or something about 38 years ago...
little known fact; he also is TB +.
by mattybobo on Jul 29, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Big 3
Isringhausen, Pulsipher and Jones.
by Tackle Box on Jul 29, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Generation K
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jul 29, 2008 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doh!
Wilson. I knew it was a common name.
by Tackle Box on Jul 29, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does Flores still have options?
Franklin and Izzy are not easily removed from the roster. Flores is a LOOGY {not a very good one} him being on the roster should not effect Perez being on the roster because they are not the same roll.
Now the question is, while you are having Perez throw his slider so often(25-30%). Is Jimenez better than Perez. Thats pretty debatiable and I’d almost say that Perez working on his slider is better than Jimenz. But both Tony and Duncan believe that the Major league is not a place to develop players. And Perez is working on deveolping his slider.
If he comes back up with a wicked slider and continues to bounce back to AAA like Reyes than I would buy into right. Right now Im I believe that Perez will outlast Duncan and Tony in St. Louis. I know the bullpen is an issue right now. But Perez was getting hit his last few weeks(or walking batters.) because people were just sitting on his fast ball. And he will continue to get hit onless he has something else to throw him. I remember gameday threads here where people were calling for him to throw the slider. So I don’t think Duncan is crazy for wanting him to work on it.
So really, which would you rather have. Perez up here now through the rest of the year hrowing just the fastball. Or Perez up here in august/next year throwing both the wicked fastball and a nice slider?
by Evilfrog on Jul 29, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I completely agree....
Did you watch the game last night? They showed how Flores is trying to do the “tall & fall technique” which he currently does not do. He looked so uncomfortable on the mound it was ridiculos. I honestly have zero problem with Jimenez right now as he is fine but Flores is completely useless at this time. Villone is perfectly fine as long as he is used against LH batters.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 29, 2008 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
total agreement
if the slider is good and he is bounced around or isn’t allowed to throw high heat then i’ll be worried.
either way, izzy as closer is ridiculous. no one has a clue how to manage this bullpen
by kalmavet on Jul 29, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bernie and Randy were both talking about it on the radio yesterday
although that could all be coming from Bernie in essence. He did detail on several occasions the schisms between Reyes and the coaches so I’m inclined to believe this isn’t entirely made up.
by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah i don't know
that it’s entirely made up either. obviously, perez is a glaring omission from a bullpen that could use him. but for now i’ll buy the excuse that he shouldn’t be working on his slider in stl. while they did butcher Reyes, it also seems like bernie has an axe to grind w/ Duncan at times.
by kalmavet on Jul 29, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Izzy's a free agent
and trying to make some money. He knows the Cards aren’t going to give it to him and, in order to earn some scratch the next couple of years, he needs to close games now. Plus, he’s got a lot of confidence that he can do better than Franklin.
by chuckb on Jul 29, 2008 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure he's going to play anymore after this season
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 29, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PR Guy
I think they need to hire some college kid who’s scared of all three guys to be their press agent. Mo, TLR, and Dunc don’t talk to the press, instead they talk to some 21 year old communications major and then he comes up with some kind of Belichick like press release that doesn’t really say anything….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 29, 2008 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think people are making way to much out of this.
Tony “backed” Franklin in a post game interview after dancing around the question a few times. He might have been better served not to say anything. A lot of conversation between, Tony, Duncan, Franklin and Izzy could have happened after that.
Mo suggesting that WW could close is kinda scarey. Maybe he was just humoring Al?
by Evilfrog on Jul 29, 2008 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Izzy's grumblings
I actually don’t have a problem with Izzy wanting to close, and being a little vocal about it. When he was struggling a while back, he basically begged off the role, which is a sign of a lack of confidence that is basically death for a closer.
Yes, Izzy’s sucked this year. Everyone knows that, including him. But in his mind, right now he’s the man for the 9th inning and the situation has got him a little pissed off. I bet TLR and Dunc are happy about that. I know I am. A “go along with the team, OK coach” kind of attitude is going to get Izzy nowhere. The Cards need to have him out there pitching with an edge. (Spare me the comments about him ptiching down in the zone, and all that. I get it. He has to do that too. All I’m saying is that a mental adjustment can only help.)
Closers generally need to be sort of bad-ass types, and the motiviation to go out there and dominate and be “the man” is apparently extremely important to succeeding in role. I mean, think about it, why does it take a so-called “special guy” to pitch the 9th, when it has the same number of outs to get as any other inning?
Go ahead and bitch Izzy. I bet TLR and Dunc want you mad right now. Being content and going with the flow haven’t worked too well this year. Maybe an upset #44 can return to his old form and help out the team.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Jul 29, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
July - .775 OPS
June - .674 OPS
Where’s the pitching better part? Also, last time I checked he isn’t the coach. I don’t really care if he thinks he’s the man for the 9th inning. Or at least that’s not something he should verbalize outside of a closed door meeting with the coaches. It’s seems subversive, imo.
by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just disagree
Where did I mention that he was “pitching better”? Just curious why you started with that, since my whole post was about Izzy’s mental state right now, today, and not his performance to date.
There’s no right or wrong here. IReasonable minds can and often do have different opinions.
That said, I really do care if Izzy thinks he’s the man for the 9th inning. That confidence is at least part of the necessary ingredients for succes as a closer. Whether Izzy has the other parts is at best debatable right now, but at least he seems to have that confidence back, however empty it may be.
As for keeping it to himself, I think a professional athlete has the right to talk to the press about tihngs. Same way a manager has the right to call a player out in the press. Maybe this is done as a last resort after closed door meetings, maybe it isn’t. Players and managers have snipped at each other through the press forever, and often on the greatest of teams. These are grown men here, not high school kids. Public embarrassment is sometimes the best way to get them to bend to the wishes of the manager, and if the manager’s good, that translates to winning. And on the flip side, managers can sometimes be deaf tyrants to reasonable beefs brought by players, and the press is the only avenue to positive change.
By making his beef public, Izzy put the onus on himself to back it up. Some players really respond to that. Some don’t. As I said before, the other way didn’t work, so go ahead, Izzy, state your case. Now go and back it up.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Jul 29, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not sure where I picked up the pitching better part
must have been a different comment . . .
can’t argue with the mental state thing even if I think it’s bogus. Just different opinions.
by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mental
I think it does play some role, I am not trying to say just because a guy thinks he can do it means he can will his way past garbage stuff. However one can not argue that it helps to at least believe you can do the job.
I think earlier in the year Izzy did not even want to be near the mound in the 9th inning and it showed in that series at Millwaukee with his post game comments.
I don’t like what I have seen from Izzy since coming back, at this point I think luck will be needed for Izzy to be successful. His stuff is just not consistent enough anymore. He has flashes but he just can’t string together enough quality pitches.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 29, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At least he wants to be back in the fire
I guess that’s the overall point. If so, I agree with it. I’m making assumptions here, but guessing Izzy realizes he tried to give the job away, and he sees Franklin enduring the same kind of failure he dealt with. Nobody seems ready to take the job from him, so he feels some guilt sitting on the sidelines while this whole thing combusts. Plus, for a more self indulgent motivation, he probably really wants to get to 300.
So he wants to give it one more shot. It doesn’t mean he’s going to do a great job, but at least he apparently wants the ball now. I don’t think we can say that about Franklin now. I know we couldn’t say it about Izzy for the last few months.
So this is where we are now, I guess. Small victories.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 29, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rosenthal **Speculation**
Kenny muses in today’s column about Renteria-to-St. Louis and whether or not the Cards would have interest. He seems to make the case against such an acquisition without meaning to:
Would the Cardinals entertain the return of Tigers shortstop Edgar Renteria? Cesar Izturis is a far better defender, but his batting average/on-base percentage/slugging line this season is only .228/.298/.288.Renteria isn’t hitting all that much better at .261/.310/.333, and his defense has regressed markedly. The Tigers would not necessarily be worse off without him, but perhaps he would be energized in St. Louis, where he played from 2000 to ‘04.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 10:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I didn't think the club.....
and Renteria were on great terms, based on how he left?
Kinda why I chuckle to myself everytime I see somebody mention Eckstein or Rolen coming back.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2008 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Who
has ever mentioned Eck or Rolen coming back? they’ve only been gone for a few months.
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2008 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've seen both.....
on this very site. More Eck, then Rolen, but I did see Rolen mentioned.
And my point goes for every Cardinal that left in that manner. Wasn’t Grudz unhappy he didn’t get an offer? I believe Renteria has been mentioned for a few months.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Grudz situation was a huge cluster****, if I recall correctly
I remember sort of sitting around scratching my head after he signed cheap with the Royals, like, “We couldn’t pay him that?”
by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2008 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe that was the year
we had a set amount for 2B (3.5 mil?) and Grudz wanted 4 or so. Not saying letting him go was a bad decision (it really didn’t work out one way or another) but it was an odd way to leave.
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
He ended up getting $4 mil from the Royals with a $3 mil option for 2007 that vested at 500 PA’s. Then he got an extension, $4 mil for 2007 and $4.5 mil for 2008. Seems to me it would’ve been worth it. We played the following year with Miles/Belliard/Luna at 2B. Grudz was rock-solid with the glove and average with the bat, which is more than Miles could say on both counts. Belly wasn’t bad, if I recall, but still.
Never would’ve ended up with that stupid Kennedy contract, either. Sigh.
by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2008 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was 1M
They figured they could fill in any old schmo for 1M or less to fill the role, they ended up getting Miles for most of the season because of it.
by StLHugo on Jul 29, 2008 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
They said there was a “hard cap” of $2MM for a secondbaseman. Ridiculous. You can see what that bought us.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 29, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and we proceeded to pay like 6 for replacements
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jul 29, 2008 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And not a one of them turned out to be even close to what they
got from Grudz. It’s okay to pay more for a better product. He’s still playing well at an advanced age. I think it’s fair to say they made a mistake when they let him walk and made a bigger mistake by thinking Kennedy was worth a 3 year contract.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 29, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hung out with a Royals employee and former player last night
I spent about an hour getting made fun of because the Cards didn’t resign him. It was painful and they really laughed when I gave them the hard limit to spend at the position story.
by birdo rojo on Jul 29, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you point out that it was a bit silly for anyone employed by the Royals
org to make fun of someone else?
by sdrone on Jul 29, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe.....Seems like people think they are coming around every 4 years.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 29, 2008 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes KC struggles........
I actually pull for the Royals because of the small market factory but they just struggle.
It seems like they get 2-3 young guys and everyone thinks it means they will automatically be good in the near future but it just never happens. It like they can not further develope the young guys and they then end up trading them eventually.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 29, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tried
but they happened to mention a certain sweep that occurred at Bush this year. I didn’t have a comeback to that one.
by birdo rojo on Jul 29, 2008 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me help you:
One team has been in the playoff race until September for EIGHT CONSECUTIVE SEASONS
The other hasn’t been in the race past July in over a decade
that’s just the beginning. I live in KC, and I don’t take any crap from their fans. You can also remind them that we were playing without the best 1B and best C in the business during that series.
"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."
by BigMOman on Jul 29, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, if you take every thing you read
on these here interwebs seriously, reyes and duncan would have been traded for lincecum awhile ago. I think everyone in the front office knows they cut ties with eck at the right time.
Anyhoo, Edgar took a million or two more per year to play in Boston… I don’t think there was any bad blood left between either side. I think El Capitain would be more than welcomed back.
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You think wrong.....
I’m pretty sure the team (management and coaches) weren’t real happy with Edgar. Doubt they’d be eager to bring him back.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your opinion trumps mine.
WINNER!!!
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2008 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not an opinion.....
I remember reading about it. I don’t remember who, but somebody made public comments about it.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And i remeber
hearing from guys on the 2005 team that were still friends with Edgar. Him leaving was nothing but business.
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Of course some of the guys are still friends with him.....
I never mentioned the players. I said management and coaches.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Management is gone
coaches are soon to follow.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Edgar
said something that got reported in a paper like he was hurt that Boston wanted him more than St. Louis did. There was hardly a Rolen-like falling out. I really doubt that feelings on either side are still so bruised that a trade here would be unworkable.
by chuckb on Jul 29, 2008 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We were discussing bringing Rolen back in a trade with Toronto yesterday
But I believe the trade proposed was Izturis, Kennedy, and Flores for Halladay, Burnett, and Rolen
So obviously it wasn’t the least bit serious
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 29, 2008 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And obviously that wasn't what I was talking about.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then find where people were calling
for Eckstein back.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 29, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or a legitimate cry to get Rolen back
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 29, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do recall some...
mention of bringing Eck back to play 2nd when Baltimore was supposedly interested in him. I don’t recall anyone pondering bringing Rolen back, though.
by cardzfanbub on Jul 29, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
F that.....
I know what I read, and don’t have time to dig through blog after blog to find it.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there was a "serious"
comment about bringing Eck back, but none that I recall about Rolen (other than that joke about Halladay)
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 29, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't remember the exact context of Rolen.....
But I know I read it.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 29, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I recall something
People were starting to get their digs in on Glaus when he started off cold. I think there were a few comparisons made early on there when Rolen first started coming off the DL. Don’t think there was any type of common consensus or anything around it on here, but I do recall some flippant comments. I interpreted them as reactionary, quicktrigger shots as Glaus more than real support for bringing Rolen back.
That’s my fuzzy recollection, at least.
by Merry CRasmus on Jul 29, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I remember that too
Rolen had the same number of HR as Glaus at one point this season, after Sco Ro had been on the DL most’ve the time.
by liam on Jul 29, 2008 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If --and it's a big if --
there’s a “big” move made before the deadline, I think the cards will get either Edgar back or try to get Peralta to flee from the Cleve. The FO seems to think that the carpenter and the wagonmaker will be enough to shore up the tattered pitching staff, and the biggest hole in the offense right now is at SS.
Also, if the Braves are in true fire sale mode, I’d live to see tredbirds try to pry loose Kelly Johnson.
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2008 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be careful
The Cleveland front office is a savvy one, and Peralta has been on fire lately. Beware buying high.
by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2008 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1 on Kelly Johnson
I mentioned it to some Braves fans the other day and they said “we’d love you to take him too.” Not sure why, but whatevs
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 29, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is the same reaction
Indians fans have about Peralta this year.
They just seem to absolutely hate the guy irrationally. It’s kind of like StL fans and Juan in 06; he’s not doing anything less than you’d expect, but man the fans hate him.
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kelly Johnson seems to make key errors in the game-errors that lead to losses.
Son #4 is a Braves fan. Yes, they do hate him, and yes it is irrational at times.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 29, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kelly Johnson
is a type of guy that does nothing really, well but also doesn’t do anything really poorly, which when it all evens out at his salary, is pretty valuable.
(If that makes any sense.)
(Which, upon further review, it doesn’t, but I don’t know how to word it any better.)
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2008 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's an excellent analogy.
The guy pretty much does just what you expect, and is despised for it.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 29, 2008 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As mentioned before
So did Encarnacion. Yet wasn’t enough.
This reeks of “the grass is always greener”
by Tackle Box on Jul 29, 2008 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that pretty much sums up
fans’ feelings about Marquis here as well.
by chuckb on Jul 29, 2008 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think he hits lefties at all
But that’s without looking the stats up
by saladdays on Jul 29, 2008 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PLEASE ACQUIRE EDGAR
He is not as bad as he looks right now, I truly believe he’d turn things around if he came here.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 29, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ive always liked him
would not bother me to give him another shot in stl
i take your signatures and use them as away messages
by ihavebadknees on Jul 29, 2008 1:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've heard of
closer by committee but not a committee chosen closer. How many more ways can this team think outside the box?
We all know who should be in charge. “impudently usurping my authority” ........nice stuff Larry.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Jul 29, 2008 10:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kalk is hardcore
That’s ROOT he’s using to plot his data - an analysis package developed at CERN for high-energy physicists. I heartily approve.
by Andyfantastic on Jul 29, 2008 10:44 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Another reason I can't hate the Brewers
they’ve got two of the most productive unpaid analysts in sabermetrics for fans.
by liam on Jul 29, 2008 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they've got Bob Uecker
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 29, 2008 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lboros, I find these charts fascinating.
However, they make my eyes bleed. They mess with the wiring of my brain. I can’t believe someone has the patience to sit down and gather the data then actually know what to do with it. I’m jealous.
How about if you just look at Wellemeyer’s past trips through the ML. We know he had good stuff, we know he could strike people out, we know he issued too many walks because he had poor control/command. I know this is something no one wants to consider-maybe his great month plus (before the DL) was an abberation. Maybe we are witnessing a return to form. Only time will answer that one. It’s also possible he’s just having the normal ups and downs a lot of starters do when becoming a rotation regular.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 29, 2008 10:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
my opinion
is that the time off from the sore elbow messed with what he had going on this year, and he has to figure out again what he’s doing out there… like you said, time will tell
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 29, 2008 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pitch FX Sucks
I don’t understand why anyone trusts data or analyses based on Pitch FX.
From what I have seen, the data is all over the place and full of noise. Maybe 80% of the time it’s good, but 20% of the time it gets the pitch type and velocity totally wrong.
Garbage In, Garbage Out.
by thepainguy on Jul 29, 2008 10:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Got something better?
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Jul 29, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
I often have Gameday on while watching the game on TV so I can have PitchFX data and haven’t noticed its garbage qualities you type of.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
No.
But I don’t want people to get a false sense of knowledge.
I don’t think we know as much as we think we know.
by thepainguy on Jul 29, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've heard bat things about the data analysis
that you see on Gameday but I’m pretty sure Kalk uses his own clustering algorithm. The data seems relatively accurate once you account for park variations.
by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2008 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's correct
kalk uses his own algorithm. his program also filters out obvious errors (ie, nonsensical speed / break / elevation combinations). and kalk checks his pitch-type assignments against narrative descriptions of a pitcher’s repertoire — if a guy is known to throw a splitter but not a slider, kalk’s program adjusts accordingly.
i agree w/ painguy that pitch FX isn’t perfect, but he’s vastly overstating the flaws. the technology itself and the data interpretation are both improving very rapidly — guys like kalk are well aware of the limitations (they’re the ones who exposed them, in most cases), and they are the ones who are forcing change and improvement to occur. steps are being taken to correct them and/or cope with the limitations.
by lboros on Jul 29, 2008 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
adjustments
here is an interview where josh explains how accurate pitch f/x is and describes the process he uses to make adjustments based on the different ballparks. it from a yankees blog so you have to deal with a little bit or yankees-centered questions, but it is a good read. i learned alot about the pitch f/x system from it.
by DJ87 on Jul 29, 2008 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Overstating
I may be overstating the flaws, but I don’t know by how much.
Admittedly, it may be a small sample size problem. However, whenever I look at Pitch FX data, I see glaring problems. Velocity numbers are way off of the stadium gun (and the naked eye) and pitch classifications are way off.
I also think there are some operator error problems (e.g. pitch classification). Sometimes the data is very good and other times it’s mostly bad.
What got my attention this time was I was going through my DVR of Sunday’s game, using Gameday to locate the Pujols AB where he hit the HR. I found the AB and then started looking at the detail of the pitches in Gameday and on the screen, looking for the pitch he clobbered. What I saw in Gameday and what I saw on the screen were very different swings.
P.S. Albert’s swing from the HR Sunday off Johan in the 7th was absolutely textbook…
by thepainguy on Jul 29, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And again
The pitch classification that is used in the MLB.com gameday is NOT the same that Kalk is using. He gets the raw data and classifies the pitches by clusters.
The stadium gun? The stadium guns that use the JUGS guns that MLB won’t even use to actually scout players? The stadium gun that is frequently rumored to be toyed with by the home team (Zumaya only hitting 92 in the World Series etc)?
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jul 29, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stadium Gun
I would agree with you that stadium guns can be bad, but the one at Shea seemed to be decent. It agreed with the Pitch FX velocity most of the time.
And I don’t think this is an issue of catching the throw back from the catcher.
One thing I have observed is that Pitch FX seems to have a “warm up” problem. It often seems to get the first couple pitches in a sequence wrong but then gets the last ones right.
by thepainguy on Jul 29, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
PS good find on the Pujols clip
That hip rotation is amazing!
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jul 29, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This closer situation.....
.......has almost become as loony as those silent-movie Keystone Kops comedies where everyone’s gone amok in the streets with chaos! Members of the coaching staff now publicly promoting different solutions—and those “solutions” advocating the use of the same pitchers who have shown time after time they can’t get the job done? Has the Cards’ “brain trust” lost their minds? Have they thought all these blown saves by Isringhausen and Franklin were just “flukes?”
This is sad…...really sad.
by ccthemovieman on Jul 29, 2008 11:42 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, last year we had musical chairs starting rotation.
Why not try musical chairs closer? It will heighten the suspense, no? It looks like they are trying to ride the “hot” arm, or something.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 29, 2008 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there a reason why Springer can't close games?
by saladdays on Jul 29, 2008 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I thought
Leach’s answer to that question was good. His good numbers almost certainly are where they’re at because of how he’s been used.
by liam on Jul 29, 2008 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
God I wish Motte had a Secondary pitch
He faced 5 hitters last night and struck out 5
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 29, 2008 12:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cardinals minor leaguers get 50 game steroid suspensions
NEW YORK—Three St. Louis Cardinals minor leaguers were suspended for 50 games each after testing positive for steroids.The commissioner’s office said Tuesday the suspensions of pitchers Braulin Beltre and Yedilson Pena and outfielder Andres Beras take effect immediately. All are on the Cardinals’ Dominican Summer League team.
Beltre and Beras tested positive for boldenone and Pena for stanozolol.
I didn’t even know they tested in the Dominican league
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 29, 2008 12:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oh well
It’s a pretty well-known fact that steroids run rampant and largely unregulated in the Dominican Republic, so it’s natural that some of the players from the region are going to test positive when they find themselves being tested. We can only hope these guys will get the memo and stop using.
by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2008 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you really blame them
I would be doing anything I could to get out of the DR
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 29, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the double edged sword
While it is totally immoral to cheat and do steriods, I completely understand why those kids do it and really have a hard time blaming them for the mistake.
Do you play it honest and possibly never make it “off that island” or do you cheat, make millions of dollars and maybe run the risk of getting caught. To most of those guys, the risk/reward element of the whole situation doesn’t balance out. The reward is millions of times greater than the risk.
by Tackle Box on Jul 29, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're also ignoring the unintentional possibilities
While it’s ludicrous to think Barry Bonds didn’t know exactly what someone was giving him, an 18 year old kid in the DR who has a “manager” feeding him supplements could very easily be duped into roiding.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jul 29, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about that.....
These kids are not taking supplement shakes. They are juicing up with roids/drugs intened for animals and what not. I saw stories about the steroid issue in Mexico(just across the boarder where they are not illegal) and latin america.
I think the Kids fully know what they are doing, but the risk is worth the reward. Sometimes they are just after the signing bonus which goes a looooooooooonnnnnnnng way in the DR.
I think there are always going to be illegal substances being used as there are people who make a lot of money to creat undetectible drugs.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 29, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But
the kids could be taking steroids pills which their “managers” are passing off as supplements.
by njnick on Jul 29, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This happens in America too unfortunately
I played HS baseball and knew quite a few kids who juiced, 2 of which who have been drafted and currently play in the minor leagues for 2 different teams.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 29, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ditto
God, I know people that did HGH in high school that they got from AID’s patients
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 29, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I knew a couple in HS, too
Most of them amounted to nothing, although one guy’s body completely fell apart on him…he ripped up the muscles in his back and ended up having to quit sports. The stuff of a public service announcement.
by mojowo11 on Jul 29, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
same here.
i played hs ball and saw this many times. it’s quite sad imo.
....my quick smells like french toast...
by mstreeter06 on Jul 29, 2008 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the Morality scale
Steroids rank awfully low on my list. I would consider someone that wrote a mortgage loan with no true backing much more immoral than someone taking steroids. I see steroids mostly affecting just one persons life, their own. While much worst white collar crime is no wear as much vilified as steroids are. Just seems so hypocritical to me.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 29, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1000000000000000
i have a hard time finding cheating in professional sports immoral.
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jul 29, 2008 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do.
I think it’s completely immoral. Two reasons:
1) The money spent, waged, and collected to see an athletic contest. I go to watch teams compete and the competition itself. Cheating takes that away.
2) Kids. Somewhere, there’s a 20yr old guy who feels like shit because he idolized Mark McGwire when he was 10. Either he’s embarassed, or he’s angry. And somewhere, there are kids cheering for their favorite players – only to find out they cheated later…
Go read the last chapter of the Natural.
I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck
by bukowski on Jul 29, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First Off
1) Baseball is just entertainment, Cheating is very vague and can be turned in many different ways. I didn’t hear a big outcry when Shawn Merriman was busted for PED’s.
2) Lets see… Disappointed cause favorite baseball player cheated at a sport or more disappointed that they lost their home cause of mortgage fiasco.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 29, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't bring up the NFL
It’s completely and utterly absurd that baseball is trashed for PED’s but no one bats an eye at the NFL. And it isn’t just sports reporters who look the other way. Nike drops Giambi after it’s revealed that he confessed to a grand jury. Yet, when Merriman gets suspended he gets his own Nike commercial. Talk about a double standard. It is utterly ridiculous.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, once again,
nobody ever refers to the great baseball stars of the 50’s and 60’s as “cheaters” b/c they took greenies. Why is that anyway? Think amphetamines aren’t/weren’t PED’s? Wrong! There’s a lot of hypocrisy in this great debate and the way Shawne Merriman and other NFLers are treated compared w/ people like McGwire who are simply suspected of using steroids is beyond absurd!
by chuckb on Jul 29, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
it’s ridiculous how much attention our govt. gave to this issue, when it probably doesn’t even crack the top 500 most important issues of the day
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 29, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reading too much into the quote?
From the write-up on espn.com re: Izzy regaining the closer’s role:
“I personally see improvement in the way Izzy’s throwing the ball,” Cardinals pitching coach Dave Duncan said. “If I didn’t think he could go out there and get the save, I certainly wouldn’t agree—not that it would make any difference, but my opinion wouldn’t be what it is.”
What’s up with the “not that it would make any difference…” comment? It’s like he’s going on record as saying that he didn’t endorse this decision.
by goodymobb on Jul 29, 2008 1:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1 on the reading too much into it.
Probably just saying that it’s Tony’s call, not his. I read it that he does agree with the move based upon his recent performance and just clarifying that it’s Tony who pulls the final strings.
by birdo rojo on Jul 29, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
O/T
does anyone know when Carp’s last start for Memphis was? Ive been trying to find it, but I’m not having any success. Thanks in advance.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 29, 2008 2:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll check that
Thanks!
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 29, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's from ESPN.com
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 29, 2008 2:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Whoa
Just had an earthquake out here in LA. 5.8 magnitude, according to some government website.
by effin fisk on Jul 29, 2008 3:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Shake, Rattle and Roll.!!!
Yep…5.8 and centered in Chino Hills….and the weird thing about this one was it lasted a Loooonnnnnnnggg…time…. everyone in my office got up and headed toward the door jams…
by Timbo02 on Jul 29, 2008 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry. off topic.
it was my first earthquake, and since VEB was open on my screen, i thought i’d share my excitement/scared-y-cat-ness with you all
by effin fisk on Jul 29, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We had an earthquake back in April/May
I think in the STL area in the middle of the night. I thought somewhat had broken into my apt. Scared the crap out of me.
by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One time about five years ago there was an earthquake on the AL/GA border
I didn’t feel it in my sleep (I was about 150-200 miles from the epicenter). It didn’t do alot of damage. The best part of all of it though was Conan’s joke the next night on Late Night:
“An earthquake went off last night on the AL/GA border. There was no damage, but thousands of mechanical fish began singing.”
Eh, the way he told it was funnier.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 29, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you told it fine
That is funny.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 29, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and you were giving US crap about the Georgia jokes!
I agree, good job of telling it Mr Redbird, made me laugh.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 29, 2008 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All the quakes in that area today
http://earthquake.usgs.gov/eqcenter/recenteqsus/Maps/US2/33.35.-119.-117_eqs.php
MAP 2.4 2008/07/29 19:15:25 33.950 -117.805 18.6 6 km ( 4 mi) SSE of Diamond Bar, CA
MAP 2.1 2008/07/29 19:14:48 33.937 -117.793 15.9 6 km ( 3 mi) N of Yorba Linda, CA
MAP 1.7 2008/07/29 19:13:53 33.966 -117.805 17.0 4 km ( 3 mi) SSE of Diamond Bar, CA
MAP 2.2 2008/07/29 19:12:28 33.953 -117.729 14.3 3 km ( 2 mi) S of Chino Hills, CA
MAP 1.3 2008/07/29 19:10:31 33.920 -117.762 13.9 4 km ( 3 mi) NE of Yorba Linda, CA
MAP 2.3 2008/07/29 19:03:00 33.923 -117.810 16.4 5 km ( 3 mi) NNW of Yorba Linda, CA
MAP 1.8 2008/07/29 19:00:23 34.155 -117.819 0.0 4 km ( 3 mi) NE of Glendora, CA
MAP 1.8 2008/07/29 19:00:06 34.325 -117.463 9.7 13 km ( 8 mi) NNW of Devore, CA
MAP 1.7 2008/07/29 18:58:57 33.957 -117.805 16.3 5 km ( 3 mi) SSE of Diamond Bar, CA
MAP 1.9 2008/07/29 18:58:33 33.973 -117.739 14.7 1 km ( 1 mi) WSW of Chino Hills, CA
MAP 1.4 2008/07/29 18:56:36 33.947 -117.778 9.5 6 km ( 4 mi) WSW of Chino Hills, CA
MAP 2.2 2008/07/29 18:54:12 33.948 -117.791 14.0 7 km ( 4 mi) SSE of Diamond Bar, CA
MAP 2.2 2008/07/29 18:54:03 33.952 -117.770 15.5 5 km ( 3 mi) WSW of Chino Hills, CA
MAP 3.8 2008/07/29 18:51:52 33.959 -117.809 15.3 5 km ( 3 mi) SSE of Diamond Bar, CA
MAP 3.8 2008/07/29 18:51:46 33.965 -117.788 17.6 5 km ( 3 mi) SE of Diamond Bar, CA
MAP 3.8 2008/07/29 18:51:29 33.941 -117.790 16.8 6 km ( 4 mi) N of Yorba Linda, CA
MAP 2.4 2008/07/29 18:50:34 33.961 -117.766 14.9 4 km ( 3 mi) WSW of Chino Hills, CA
MAP 2.4 2008/07/29 18:49:45 33.921 -117.807 15.3 4 km ( 3 mi) NNW of Yorba Linda, CA
MAP 2.7 2008/07/29 18:48:27 33.946 -117.822 16.4 6 km ( 4 mi) S of Diamond Bar, CA
MAP 2.8 2008/07/29 18:47:48 33.969 -117.752 16.1 3 km ( 2 mi) WSW of Chino Hills, CA
MAP 5.8 2008/07/29 18:42:15 33.959 -117.752 12.3 3 km ( 2 mi) SW of Chino Hills, CA
MAP 1.3 2008/07/29 16:16:22 34.010 -117.169 15.1 5 km ( 3 mi) S of Redlands, CA
MAP 2.2 2008/07/29 06:18:44 34.269 -117.187 8.6 1 km ( 1 mi) NNE of Lake Arrowhead, CA
MAP 1.5 2008/07/28 20:59:26 34.037 -117.260 19.1 2 km ( 1 mi) SW of Loma Linda, CA
MAP 1.8 2008/07/28 17:45:45 33.900 -117.724 6.0 6 km ( 4 mi) ENE of Yorba Linda, CA
MAP 1.5 2008/07/27 18:14:38 34.240 -118.412 13.0 4 km ( 2 mi) ENE of Panorama City, CA
MAP 1.6 2008/07/26 14:15:00 34.010 -117.214 15.5 5 km ( 3 mi) SE of Loma Linda, CA
MAP 1.9 2008/07/26 13:56:56 33.967 -118.624 17.4 15 km ( 9 mi) WSW of Santa Monica, CA
MAP 1.2 2008/07/26 08:20:59 34.235 -117.443 10.2 4 km ( 3 mi) WNW of Devore, CA
MAP 1.6 2008/07/26 02:14:08 34.246 -118.416 11.0 4 km ( 2 mi) NE of Panorama City, CA
MAP 1.5 2008/07/26 01:18:08 33.431 -117.463 0.0 15 km ( 9 mi) E of San Clemente, CA
MAP 1.3 2008/07/25 02:29:43 33.957 -117.743 5.6 3 km ( 2 mi) SW of Chino Hills, CA
MAP 1.5 2008/07/24 16:47:29 34.638 -117.117 0.0 16 km ( 10 mi) NNE of Apple Valley, CA
MAP 1.3 2008/07/24 13:30:13 34.243 -118.407 12.1 4 km ( 3 mi) ENE of Panorama City, CA
MAP 1.5 2008/07/24 09:45:11 34.016 -117.201 4.3 5 km ( 3 mi) SSW of Redlands, CA
MAP 1.2 2008/07/24 08:05:38 34.069 -117.305 15.0 2 km ( 1 mi) ENE of Colton, CA
MAP 1.5 2008/07/24 05:33:48 34.013 -117.205 4.2 6 km ( 4 mi) SSW of Redlands, CA
MAP 2.6 2008/07/24 02:42:12 34.018 -117.200 4.3 5 km ( 3 mi) SSW of Redlands, CA
MAP 1.4 2008/07/23 19:00:12 33.848 -117.499 0.0 7 km ( 4 mi) ESE of Corona, CA
MAP 1.7 2008/07/22 20:27:23 34.238 -118.473 15.0 3 km ( 2 mi) NW of Panorama City, CA
by StLHugo on Jul 29, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
40?!
Today? Holey Buckets thats a lot!
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 29, 2008 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
enough to get rattled by
I’ll take the tornados we have here, at least we can see those coming.
Grew up in L.A., slept through the 71 quake, but felt everthing else up to Dec. 93…... moved here just before that big one in Jan. 94.
Take care and watch for the aftershocks.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 29, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
um...
We just had an earthquake here in St. Louis a few months ago. Does the OK stand for Oklahoma?
by Evilfrog on Jul 29, 2008 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep....
Lost my home in the May 3rd 1999 tornado, but I’ll still take a tornado over the earthquake….. sadly though, St. Louis (and surrounding areas) get’s boths. I have to laugh at the local broadcasters exclaim over 3.2’s quakes we have here once every three years… they ain’t got a clue what a “Big One” is.
St Louis is due for a really big one, isn’t it?
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 29, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes and No
The NM zone is way south of StL but if/when it blows I expect 8-9 or so and the infrastructure here won’t be able to support that. The last big one was 1811/1812 when it actually caused the Mississippi to appear to flow upstream for awhile.
by StLHugo on Jul 29, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so that much be why...
they made us do earthquake drills in grade school (i grew up in little rock, ar).
by launchshuttle on Jul 29, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That fault
is still going to give St. Louis a decent sized quake if the “big one” ever happens.
by saladdays on Jul 29, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You see reelfoot lake there on the map?
It was actually created by that 1811 earthquake. It also changed the flow of the Mississippi so that a part of Kentucky is actually landlocked by the state of Missouri.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 29, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A new "big one"
Should have been more clear. I definitely know about the previous one.
by saladdays on Jul 29, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
landlocked
i was unaware of that p8iece of trivia. i saw missouri and tennessee should just take it over and divide it up between them.
oh, wait… the colonel might get kind of upset about that…
by mattybobo on Jul 29, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
8.0+ in New Madrid is going to hurt several states
Hope it never happens…... scary stuff.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 29, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because of the way the seismic plates line up
the quake would shake a lot wider area (yes, those are scientific terms). The 1811 quake rang church bells in Boston.
"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."
by BigMOman on Jul 29, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
seismic plates?
I don’t normally stray OT much, but I wanted to clarify your statement. The New Madrid fault zone is located in the middle of a tectonic plate, although evidence suggests it was once the location of a plate boundary (millions of years ago). Most large earthquakes occur where plate boundaries are located. That the New Madrid fault zone is intraplate and is capable of such tremendous earthquakes remains an outstanding question to geologists.
by redrey on Jul 29, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, I've read that too
Quakes can often be “felt” far, far away. When they had the big quake in Mexico City in the ‘80’s, I was in College Station, Texas working at the research reactor there. We were doing our morning checks when, all of a sudden, someone said “Look at the pool!” There were waves, at least 4-6 inches high moving back and forth across the top of the pool. It was really eerie until we found out what had caused it.
by ArkansasTravs on Jul 30, 2008 12:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It will
Just a matter of when. I feel close enough to that area that I’d probably feel it, and a majority of my family lives in Memphis, so I’m really worried about their safety.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 29, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks!
I was actually driving down the 101 Freeway at 4:17am when the 94 one hit….all you could see was blue flashes in the night sky as power transformers were blowing all over the Valley ….and the scary thing for me was ALL the radio stations went off the air.. I though I had a flat tire at first…but then I noticed a semi truck in front of me swaying back and forth… and realized it was a BIG one..
This one was nothing compared to that morning , I can tell you that.!
by Timbo02 on Jul 29, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What, Prince Fielder fart?
Sorry.
I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck
by bukowski on Jul 29, 2008 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fascinating statistics LB
they provide some interesting incites. If you hope to create a platform to initiate a beneficial action you will probably need some blood work, a full liver panel done twice a week to gauge liver toxicity. The body will constantly be attempting to adjust to the dosages of anti-inflammatory drugs that he is taking. There are also the collateral consequences of his agitated emotional state as his body tries to gauge the severity of his masochistic desire to throw a baseball “crooked”.
Just kidding…......kind of. This drama has now become part “being in the show”. High risk, high reward romanticism.
On the closer situation. There is a month before the September call ups. I would guess that there is going to be quite a circus going on in Cardinal town at that point. If the team made the playoffs, you would probably be looking at two or three new players on the playoff roster. If I had to play to win, I would put Waino at closer for a few weeks to stabilize the pen, and I believe it would. Bring in all the wanna be’s in september and put waino back in the rotation for the stretch drive, and considering the odd playoff scheduling and the health and success of Carp, use Waino as closer again in the playoffs. He would then be involved in every game, which I think would be our only chance of winning anyway. Izzy has to last for another week is all.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 29, 2008 3:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
can't understand what you're driving at WCB
that first graph makes no sense to me.
by lboros on Jul 29, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What LB?
You don’t know how to administer a full liver panel twice a week?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't this referring to wcbw's theory
that welly is fairly injured and hopped up on pain meds in an effort to stay in the bigs? I guess the liver panel etc would show that he’s been doped up post dl.
mel
by mel1975 on Jul 29, 2008 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I suppose I'm
wondering how certain forms and models help create a basis for teaching or training methods or a basis for regulating performance expectations. If you can recognize the benefits of microscopic analysis, doesn’t that suggest a wider integration of disciplines to effect your product.
I empathize with Welly. He wants to establish himself, to enjoy the life style, but he is expendable because he doesn’t have “the contract”. Do the graphs give him some time off, to heal without being forgotten.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 29, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well said........
....i think…
Rick Ankiel could throw out Chuck Norris. Easy.
by emrfg8 on Jul 29, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's like reading poetry translated into English from a foreign language...
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats very perceptive bgh,
and in many ways very accurate.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 29, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you considered, though,
that the macroscropic analysis might provide a fine method to evaluate or determine or dissect or monitor how the shoulder wound coagulates?
Magic is lovely, and wizards are boss, and would be kind to share their wisdom, lest toads die without providing cures for dropsy.
by liam on Jul 29, 2008 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lohse **Rumor**
SI (via The St. Paul Pioneer Press) has an unfounded rumor that the Cards are shopping Lohse:
A little birdie says the St. Louis Cardinals are shopping ex-Twins pitcher Kyle Lohse for prospects before Thursday’s trade deadline, mostly because they’re not sure they’ll be in the playoff hunt and because they figure the 29-year-old right-hander won’t be affordable with high-demand agent Scott Boras. Lohse is 12-3 with a 3.68 earned-run average.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 3:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that would be a complete
180 from what Mo said yesterday.
by Evilfrog on Jul 29, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
come on don't believe Mo
Everyone is for sale if the right price comes along. How many GM’s deny things and are actually working on stuff…......................
It’s not a big deal or news at all
by ICbirdfan on Jul 29, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true
They should always be shopping everyone.
by Evilfrog on Jul 29, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this rumor goes into the same category as the
“cards might be shopping colby rasmus” rumor we heard a couple weeks ago - which also was a Sports Illustrated rumor . . . . . . . i don’t believe this one any more than i believed the rasmus rumor.
by lboros on Jul 29, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that it is likely baselss
But, the “Cards might be shopping Colby Rasmus” rumor was straight SI reporter from the ASG. This one is parroting the St. Paul Pioneer Press. I can’t speak to the reputation of the Press, but I doubt that the Cards would move Lohse while 2 GB of the Wild Card bid.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 4:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A 180? From this club?
No way! We haven’t had one of those in at least 18 hours.
by birdjam on Jul 29, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder what
if any contract negotiations they’ve had thus far with him. Even a ballpark for $$ and years. . .
by azruavatar on Jul 29, 2008 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't had any negotiations yet
You gotta love the rumors (or not).
by saladdays on Jul 29, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know but you would think is Lohse is about the $$$ his best interest is to wait till the season is over
I don’t know Lohse the man so I have no idea how much he wants to stay in STL.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 29, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is should be "if"
I think it does get to a point where you think about making a bunch of $$$ and setting up your family and future family. I can’t blame the guy for not wanting to talk about a deal at this point if he has not or they can not agree upon numbers.
Who knows, only the fly on the wall, Mo, Kyle, and Boras know what has been discussed.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 29, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Suppose that Burnett
was a possibility-even as late as yesterday (which, if you believe Ricciardi, he no longer is). It would make sense to trade and/or forget about him. That’s why I think they’ve decided not to extend. I think the whole “distraction” excuse doesn’t fly. It’s not like Lohse has been a Cardinal for 10 years. He’s a journeyman pitcher who’s been with a million clubs. The reason they haven’t extended, I believe, is because they had someone else cooking-and that someone was Burnett.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 29, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am aware that the Cards have not made Lohse an offer.
Don’t ask.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 29, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why would we?
certainly wouldn’t expect an intelligible answer
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jul 29, 2008 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hello, Mr. Lohse
Or should we call you Mr. Mozeliak?
by saladdays on Jul 29, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Caution in interpreting graphs
LB thanks for sharing the excellent pitch F/X analysis. I am learning so much from VEB all the time. And it’s all free :).
I wanted to caution folks a bit on the use of trend analysis using mean value only. Both pitch graphs contain error bars which represent confidence intervals, which I assume were generated using 95% confidence? To my eyes, the error bars are pretty wide. For example, look at the bars for horizontal movement of fastballs. Thus I am not too sure if many conclusions could be made that are statistically significant.
Personally, I feel that even if the trend is not statistically signifcant, there might still be something to it. This is because of small sample sizes. Also, I could actually live with greater than a 5% significance level (1 in 20 change of error), say even 10% or 20% for these exercises. It’s not like we are doing risk analysis involving death or injuries.
Again, I appreciate the inclusion of error bars in the plots. It’s always nice to have a sense of the variability in the data and not just the mean.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Jul 29, 2008 4:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oops my bad
I did not read LB’s post carefully. My bad. He stated that the bars are ranges and not error bars.
Me = idiot.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Jul 29, 2008 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe the relevant question is how MUCH Welley is using his slider....
as opposed to how much it is breaking. I have noticed that he seems to be throwing the slider less in general.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 29, 2008 4:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Fangraphs has that
here. Wellemeyer has thrown his slider 23.2% of the time, the highest of any month except April, when it was 26.5%. May was 23% and June was 22.5%.
About a week and a half ago, though, he had thrown his slider 25.7% of the time in July so he has thrown it less in the last couple of starts but, by and large, he’s thrown MORE sliders of late, not fewer.
by chuckb on Jul 29, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not sure if this is posted yet...
Schumaker
Mather
Pujols
Ludwick
Glaus
Molina
Ryan
Wellemeyer
Izturis
Blanco
Escobar
Teixeira
Kotsay
Infante
Johnson
Francouer
Miller
Campillo
-B
___
Join Bernie Miklasz and Randy Karraker on the Roll Home, each weekday from 2 p.m. to 6 p.m. on Team 1380.
Listen online at:
For interview recaps, go to:
by cardsfaninmass on Jul 29, 2008 5:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Tex traded to angels
For Kotchman and a ptbn www.mlbtraderumors.com
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 29, 2008 5:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Beat me to it PJ
There’s one less bat we have to worry about the next three games. The Fates have smiled on the Redbirds, at least temporarily…
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess Tex
can be crossed out of their lineup tonight
by saladdays on Jul 29, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, Kotchman won't get in the lineup until at least Thursday, methinks
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 29, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the player to be named is believed to be
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 29, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously?
Maybe the scouts see something that the numbers don’t show—a AA reliever who strikes out a lot and walks a lot? Ok.
by chuckb on Jul 29, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm glad
to see the Angels are finally interested in making a trade and going for it. This is a team that’s pretty close to being very good - and maybe the best team in the AL - but they really needed a hitter. I don’t know who’ll play first for them next year but they seem to have been able to make this trade w/o giving up a ton. Kotchman’s a nice player, but hardly someone you can’t do without.
by chuckb on Jul 29, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they want to, they can re-sign him
They have money and can invest in Teixeira if they decide to do so. That said, I think this is a very healthy return for what they shipped to Atlanta. Plus, it shores up their lone weak spot. Vlad and Tex in the middle of that lineup make it a whole lot tougher.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess
Vlad has a heavy price tag and Weaver will be a super-two, or will he? Are they going to re-sign K-Rod—he’ll cost a fortune. They could re-sign him but I’m just not sure they will. Still, it’s not like first basemen are that difficult to find.
by chuckb on Jul 29, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty close to being very good?
Wow, you are stingy with the evaluations. The Angels have the best record in baseball, by 3 1/2 games over the Cubs.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Jul 29, 2008 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It sure does
Considering what they gave up to get him last year
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 29, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Haven't most of them seemed light?
Save for the Casey Blake deal, that is. Maybe we’ll be able to upgrade our MLB roster without selling the farm. Less than two days to find out.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Confirmed by Keith Law
Here is what he reports the deal as: Teixeira for Kotchman and lefty AA pitcher Stephen Marek.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ya i was disapointed by the marte
nady deal, but cards are in the same division..
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 29, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Everyone talks how the demands are so high but when they actually ship them out they actually sound reasonable
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 29, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mo better be on the horn with Frank Wren about Ohman, Kelly Johnson, and Brent (Brett?) Lillibridge
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 29, 2008 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at this rate
maybe we really could get all 3 for duncan, flores, AK, and a couple prospects
/only mostly kidding
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 29, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Heck yes
That wasn’t even a duke’s ransom, let alone the king’s ransom I anticipated for a guy OPSing .900+ and is going to hit 30-40 homers for the year.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd sure like to find out
what Lillibridge and Ohman would cost.
by chuckb on Jul 29, 2008 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ohman
You’d think it would only cost a couple of second tier reliever prospects.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's definitely gettable
Lillibridge, I don’t know.
by chuckb on Jul 29, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm trying to hide my zest
The thought of Lillibridge is wonderful, but I don’t know that it’s realistic. I don’t know that TLR would take to some young, whippersnapper shortstop.
But, Ohman has to be a very realistic target.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you would think they would both be on the market
Ohman for obvious reasons, and Liilibridge because he would have to supplant a damn fine SS.
I won’t make any silly trade suggestions, I am too excited to think about that
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 29, 2008 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What a weak trade
That would be like us acquiring Matt Holliday for Skip Schumaker and Mark Worrell (or worse)
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 29, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe trading for Holliday isn't such a bad idea afterall
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 29, 2008 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From everything i've read
the market for Teixeira (i.e., firstbaseman) just wasn’t that strong. When you looked at the teams in contention that needed (or could use a firstbaseman) it was pretty much the Angels, Diamondbacks (who wouldnt’ give up Jackson) and the Dodgers (and who knows what they’re offereing and it probably changes from day to day).
by Tackle Box on Jul 29, 2008 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
But you still have to think they could have squeezed more out of that trade
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 29, 2008 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Angels have to be the favorites at this point to win the World Series
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 29, 2008 6:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Favorites to win the World Series..........Just sounds funny on July 29th
by ICbirdfan on Jul 29, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Every single trade being made is meant to:
(1) Ensure a playoff berth; and
(2) Better the club’s chances in the playoffs.
The Angels did both with this move. It bolstered their weakest area, making it into a strength.
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, but
I’d still say the Cubs are the favorites to win the World Series.
by chuckb on Jul 29, 2008 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Really?
With a healthy Harden, it’s debatable, to be sure, but how likely is that?
"I'm gonna throw the nastiest curveball I have ever thrown...if he hits it, I'll tip my cap, but if not we're going to the Series."
--Adam Wainwright on the final pitch of the 2006 NLCS
by bgh on Jul 29, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Evaluating the cubs
you actually have to wait a while. They simply haven’t hit since before the All-Star break. They once had almost every hitter above a .300 BA, and now the only one is Theriot. Soto, Fukudome, Ramierez are all in the .270s. That’s a major slide whether you approve of BA as legitimate or not. Plus, Lee looks interested some days and other days he looks like he’s going trough the motions. His two big hits yesterday were opposite field flares (and that’s all too common for him lately). He rarely pulls the ball with any authority. Fukudome has actually become Skip Schumaker (although not as good) in that Lou isn’t playing him against lefties anymore.
Plus, their bullpen is a bit tattered right now with Wood hurt. Marmols has been boarderline with his control since the break, and Howry gives up a home run everytime he pitches. The tight end has looked decent, but he’s still a work-in-progress that was rushed to the majors come hell or high water.
The only thing stable about the team is the rotation, which is realistically one start from Rich Harden away from being a mess. Btw, it was noted that after his last start (87 pitches), he said they didn’t want him to throw any more pitches than that since he threw so many the start before. A start in which he threw 112 pitches!!! And he had to lower his pitch count! How do you put any faith in that guy? He averages just over 5.2 innings a start for the season. Honestly, if there ever was a guy who needed to be taugh the “pitch-to-contact” philosophy, its Rich Harden (and I’m only half joking).
by Tackle Box on Jul 29, 2008 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Certain photos copyright © 2009 by Associated Press or Getty Images. Any commercial use or distribution without the express written consent of Associated Press and Getty Images is strictly prohibited.
