If Wainwright’s in the bullpen, he doesn’t get to pinch hit.

wouldn’t it make far more sense to stick Carp into the closer’s role (along with a guarantee that he won’t pitch over X pitches or on back to back days). He’s going to be on a pitch count at first anyway.

rocking back and forth, muttering about Hrbosky’s hard on for Adam going back in the bullpen.

If we are in such bad shape that our BEST PITCHER has to go into the bullpen to close out games, we are screwed anyways. Is he magically NOT going to to have to throw violent curveballs as the closer? The reason the bullpen sucks? We took Pineiro, Wellemeyer and Looper and made them starters. We took Parisi and Boggs out of the pen (although they were starters) and made them starters. We robbed Peter last year to pay Paul, and Peter is getting pissed about us ducking his calls. Moving Wainwright to the bullpen will…wait for it…..wait for it….MAKE THE ROTATION WORSE!

If they want a closer, suck it up, make a trade and get a closer. Or, here’s a novel concept….USE SPRINGER AS THE CLOSER! Atleast he doesn’t suffer from ‘heartexploding late inning homer-itis’.

Anthony Reyes, we freed up a spot on the 40 man roster? Was he simply traded to make room for Chris Carpenter?

Why is Rico Washington still on the 40 man roster? Why could Johnny Mo get nothing more than an average prospect playing at lower level than he should?

Even if he can impact more at bats from the starting rotation, he can impact more games as a closer. With the Brewer’s series as an example, a great closer could have won 2-3 games for us. Conversely, a great starter might have won a single game for us.

To elaborate on this, Wainwright get’s 8 more starts if he returns tomorrow, meaning at most he can earn 8 wins for the team (I think most would agree we won’t win every game he starts from here on out). Conversely, starting with the Brewer’s series and going through last night, the bullpen was handed late leads in 4 games and we have 1 win to show for it. If Wainwright could have helped convert 2 more of those games to wins by being the closer then he would have had twice the impact on our team’s W/L record that he would have had by throwing a complete game shutout as a starter (and make no mistake, wins get you to the playoffs not the number of batters shut down by your pitchers). Ok so this is a pretty biased example since most weeks haven’t had quite as many late game leads turn into losses, but I think the point remains that, on a good team, a dominant closer can secure more wins than a dominant starter can set up.

Thus we come back to the point of what is most important to this team right now. Is it a backstop to the bullpen or is it a starter who can eat innings. Although I tried to make the Wainwright for closer argument above, I really think the answer is that we need someone to eat innings. The piecemeal rotation we have put on the mound has done a valiant job thus far, but starts seem to be fading in length and quality lately. I think they are on the verge of collapse as a unit and desperately need carp and wainwright to stabilize them. This could, as others have stated improve the bullpen as well by lowering their workload and adding quality arms that are currently in our rotation.

Alright, if you’ve made it this far you will undoubtedly feel dumber for having read my stupid circular rant, so I will end your pain and end this post now.

I experienced as wide range of emotions in that game as any I can remember this year. Mostly relief now that we won this Mother Franklin, but I can’t let this TLR decision go.

I’ve thought about it all night, and I think that might have been the most baffling, unexplainable decision I have ever seen a manager make. How could he possibly rationalize letting Izzy hit with 2 runners on there? And then not even pitch the next inning? What was going on in his head? I’d love to hear theories because I’ve got nothing.

Overall I don’t think of myself as a TLR basher. I appreciate how hard his teams seem to play. Some of the unorthodox stuff I like. Batting the pitcher 8th might be an ok move for this team, for example.

Still the common complaint you’ll hear from his critics is that he’ll often do crazy stuff just to make his presence noticed. How can you argue with that when you see something crazy like this? I don’t think I can.

Screaming for their pitchers to stick one in Pujols ribs after staring that one down? I’ve kinda accepted that staying in the box and staring at homers is just part of the deal now, but I still wish it wasn’t.

Don’t like it when other teams do it to us, but I might like it when we do it even less. And if we are honest with ourselves, we do it quite a bit.

Lets hope it was the intensive rehab Carpenter did! If his legs are good, the rest should follow. He’s not been holding back for a while now, and the guy knows what the road back is all about.

I remember thinking how lucky we were to miss a few number 1 and 2 starters in some of the recent series, maybe the stats HC outlined above bear out how damn lucky we actually were! Crazy that we have six hitters in each box! I would have never expected that. Doesnt bode well for facing Santana today.

I think Looper is starting to feel the strain of starting and would be better served in the Pen, if not him then Wellemeyer. Imagine this:
Wainwright, Carp, Lohse, Looper/Wellemeyer, Pineiro as your rotation
Looper/Wellemeyer, Springer, McClellan, Franklin, Izzy, Thompson, Villone
While I know TLR won’t go with a 1 lefty pen that to me is the best mix we have right now unless we cut ties with Izzy.

I get it. But they’re still keeping things close, for the most part. I understand that Wainwright, long term, needs to be a starter.

But if Wainwright goes 7 innings, faces say 26 batters, and leaves with a lead, what good does is that effort if the bullpen pisses that away, like they have been doing lately?

No, I can see the argument for Wainwright in the bullpen-in the closer’s role-for the remainder of this year only. He gets back to the big club sooner with a chance to influence the outcome of more games, and you know he has a track record that says he can do it. Izzy lost it, Franklin seemingly never had it, and no one has really been given the opportunity. Unless TLR gives McClellan or Springer an opportunity, and there is no trade made for a closer, what other options are you left with?

Either way, it’s quite the MotherFranklin of a conundrum.

gets him back on the roster sooner then I am for it. While I would like to see him in the roation, it could conceivably take an extra couple of weeks to get him ready for rotation duty.

Probably better for the delicate digit not to overdo it, anyway. However, I still think it makes more sense to have him in the rotation all things being equal. The closer is important in the regular season, but starting pitching is the name of the game in the playoffs.

with the “give KMac a chance to close” camp. Because don’t forget, he struck out the side in the 8th last night.

Putting Wainwright in the bullpen should be the very very last option after we have tried everyone else and failed to make a trade for an effective closer.

I don’t believe putting your ace in the bullpen is anything other than desperation to stop the bleeding. Having two aces return to the rotation, where they belong and can dominate, could be a huge psychological boost to this team.

I think also that having a pitcher who can pitch longer than 5 innings could do a lot for the pen: they are having to pitch far too many innings and that has to be affecting their effectiveness. Think back to the beginning of the season when we had much better luck with our pen. There are a myriad reasons that could have caused this bullpen meltdown (talent level being one, but since it is impossible to replace the entire bullpen…), but what if the simplest explanation is that they are tired? Having to take up too much slack on starters that can’t go the distance? How is putting Wainwright in to eat up three outs going to do anything to change that?

I don’t think he is more of an injury risk throwing 80 pitches in the bigs than he is throwing 80 pitches in the minors. As long has Tony doesn’t ride him for 100+ his first game he should be fine health wise. (or at least, no greater risk than in memphis.)

TLR at his best…... he can make this comment because the team won.

I had a wedding. Good to see Pujols going long and Ankiel get his Average about .280. With the Cubs losing last night. Just 3 games behind.

Man. This season would be so different had Izzy not went crazy. I miss good Izzy!

What if a starter gets hurt? Say this team gets in the playoff chase, Wainwright comes back as the closer and then 2 weeks later, Joel Pineiro tears a ligament in his elbow? Who starts? Hell, what if he stays healthy? Are we going to go into an improbable playoff series with Chris Carpenter, Kyle Lohse and Todd Wellemeyer?

GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRrrr. This whole thing is frustrating me. Just make Wainwright a starter and return our rotation to dominate form.

Look at the Mets. They’ve been playing dominate baseball for 2 weeks now because their rotation has been dang good. They were talking last night about how relievers in their pen hadn’t been used IN A WEEK because they starters were going deep into games.

We need that and Wainwright gives us that.

I posted something similar in a diary, but I really don’t worry about him “being rushed.” If he gets further injured, it has nothing to do with this. The other option is him being on the same pitch count in a minor league game. The only difference here is that he has a higher chance of being shalacked by opposing hitters, but that won’t damage his health.

who closes today?

The way the schedule unfolds, we have one day off until Aug 18th, then 7 days off in 34 days. Could the mad scientist be thinking use Wainer to close when he returns until 8/17, then move AW back into the rotation to set up for the Sept playoff rush?

The next 21 games are against playoff teams and set the tone for the year. at NYM (1) at ATL (4), PHI (3), LAD (3), at Cubbies (3) at FLA (4) at Cin (3). The team needs a stopper for this time period in order to stay in competition. That is the only idea I have come up with as far as what goes on in the mind of TLR.

Strauss reports in an article chalk full of Mo quotes, that it will “likely” be a return to the ‘pen for Wainwright. I don’t need to rehash HC’s wonderful post on why this is silly idea.

Mozeliak insists it is premature to forecast Wainwright’s role until he is proven sound. Yet it appears likely given the bullpen’s late-inning uncertainty and Wainwright’s abbreviated timetable that he will return as closer first.

“It’s not a traditional way of coming back,” said Mozeliak, confirming that he and manager Tony La Russa have discussed Wainwright as a ninth-inning option. “I still think he has to pass a few more hurdles.”

don’t they? To protect the bullpen? Boggs has to be sent down and reliever called up (Worrell or Parisi) just to simply protect the pen against innings.

Boggs has no purpose on this team at this point with Carp coming back Wednesday. I know Lohse might go 7 innings but we still will need a fresh arm out there.

Guys that I would think would be unavailible:
-Franklin
-Jiminez
-Thompson (3 days in a row?)

Springer can only pitch 1 inning, so that lives you both LOOGYs (though Villone threw a lot of pitches for him yesterday), KMac and Izzy, right?

B. Ryan 2b
R. Ludwick rf
A. Pujols 1b
T. Glaus 3b
Y. Molina c
J. Mather lf
C. Izturis ss
K. Lohse p
S. Schumaker cf

vs LHP
Rick > Skip+1,000

Parisi – 6.0 IP on 7/23
Worrell – .2IP yesterday, 1 IP on 7/22 & 7/23
Motte – 1.0 IP yesterday, 1 IP on 7/23, 2.0 IP 7/21

Lohse is throwing 100 pitches and needs to spread them over 7 innings.

So, yeah…we’ve faced some “bad pitchers,” but why can’t it be that the Cardinals lineup has been good so those pitchers are listed as some of the worst pitchers, rather than the Cardinals have faced so many bad pitchers that they have all these hitters among the league leaders?

and we can’t even take advantage of that with our bullpen shutting things down. some kind of trade needs to be made, but don’t go after someone costly like Fuentes. The Red Baron had an excellent post about possible trades… maybe Moz should read it? I found it very enlightening. Wainwright should take the slow track back, as a starter. just adding Carpenter might be enough to hang in the race.