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I'd offer some insightful commentary but a) I'm at work and b) last night's game sucked what little joy I had right out of me.  I'm throwing up a clean thread for everyone to comment on.  Feel free to discuss anything relevant. 

 

I'm not sure if another poster is going to wander in with commentary later. . . apologies for not having a morning post today.

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Pardon me

while I go check out cubbie bleeds blue and brew crew ball.

by ridgesee on Jul 24, 2008 11:36 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Joe has another great post today. http://joeposnanski.com/JoeBlog/2008/07/23/gruds/

Milwaukee: Ben Sheets
His Grud: Chris Duncan
The numbers: .571/.647/1.357 with three homers in 14 at-bats.

Everybody here knows that I love statistics and I’m always trying to learn more about the game through the numbers. But I’m not afraid to admit that I’m as easily swayed by what I see as anyone. You can’t hide your lyin’ eyes. And so, no matter what numbers may say, Chris Duncan in my mind will probably always be the worst defensive outfielder in the history of baseball. It’s not fair, it’s based on only a handful of games I happened to see, but I cannot get those images out of my mind. Every single time I have seen him play the outfield, he has been brutal. Every time. It’s like, I once wrote, that I never saw Kevin McHale miss a free throw. Well, I never saw Chris Duncan look even halfway comfortable on a ball hit to the outfield. … Then again, if I was facing Ben Sheets I’d have him in my lineup.

Almost makes me want to see Duncan in the lineup tonight. Darn DL

"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."

by BigMOman on Jul 24, 2008 11:38 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've seen enough

of Duncan, and so have most people. A first baseman, he should be moved to some team which could use someone at that position. He isn’t contributing much here. Meanwhile, Mr. DeWitt, spend some money re-sign pitchers who produce for you, like Kyle Lohse…...and get a closer. I know – I know – this is getting tired but so what? Chicago and Milwaukee are being aggressive and they’re doing just fine these days.

by ccthemovieman on Jul 24, 2008 12:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No post

Seems almost appropriate after the last three games… almost like offering a moment of silence for the demise of the good feelings garnered by the sweep of the Pads.

by punditmoi on Jul 24, 2008 11:44 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Jul 24, 2008 12:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll try to add some discussion

I crunched some numbers at my blog, and the results lean very heavily that Kyle Lohse will be a Type A free agent after the season. So, given our team’s current standing, should the Cardinals trade Lohse before the deadline or let him play out the rest of the season and get two draft picks in return? Or do they extend him, thus putting all five projected starters for next season under contract? Depending on how we fare the next couple of games, I think it’s either 1 or 2.

by rockin the red on Jul 24, 2008 11:44 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Considering the Cards business plan,

I don’t think they’ve budgeted money for more pitching for the local team. They have a nice clothing store though where you can get your “remember the world series t-shirts. I’m sure they will just let Kyle Lohse drift away. No one planned for him to be very good maybe.

by CalvinB on Jul 24, 2008 11:54 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sign Lohse, if possible

A reasonable, incentive laden deal, up to 10,000,000/year for 3 years. That’s the going rate for quality starters these days.

Wow. When you write it out, $10,000,000 is a very big number.

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

by palampe on Jul 24, 2008 11:55 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

there hasn't been a quality starter signed

in two years for that amount. Santana 137mill … Silva 48mill 4years…..Lidge 37 for three years.

by CalvinB on Jul 24, 2008 12:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Good luck

I think if the Cardinals can get Lohse for 3 years/33 million they’d be getting him at a discount and they should be all over it. Unless he completely implodes these last 2 months, he’s going to command a ton of cash.

The fact that he is injury free and has no history there either is huge. Plus he’s right in his pitching prime (most pitchers’ prime is late 20s, early 30s). No flakiness, no whining, no excuses. The guy is going to be coveted.

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Jul 24, 2008 12:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

That's true

but that’s a lot of money you’re allocating to the rotation, especially with the likes of Kyle McClellan, Boggs, Parisi, Garcia, Mortensen, Reyes, and Todd all capable of filling that 5th starter role for barely anything.

You could take that $11 million a year and spend it on the middle infield, with Furcal and Hudson available at the end of the year.

by rockin the red on Jul 24, 2008 12:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thats wrong Red

Great young players fill the middle infield. Teach them. Starting pitchers are miracle. Some that are successful, Carp, Beckett, and any number of others do at the expense of there bodies. Healthy pitchers are a miracle.

by CalvinB on Jul 24, 2008 12:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah

it would just be completely ridiculous in a good way if the had Carp, Waino, Lohse, Burnett, and a young guy be our starting rotation. that is, if we trade to get Burnett…

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2008 12:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

5th starter role?

Lohse would not be filling the 5th starter role.

If he is the only starter they sign the 2009 rotation looks like this:

Carp – $14 M
Waino – $2.6 M
Lohse – $11 M (est.)
Pineiro – $7.5 M
5th guy(s) – less than $1M

by Hal Lanier's Pants on Jul 24, 2008 2:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You're forgetting Wellemeyer

who I believe has a better chance of repeating his decent numbers in coming years than Lohse.

by rockin the red on Jul 24, 2008 5:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mister DeWitted

was doing an Advertisement for Cardinal Village on the tv last night. He hopes that people might keep coming out to the games to support the project. Seemed kind of odd to me that he thought people should come to the games as a civic responsibility. Project is being financed by the Cardinal Org. it seems.

by CalvinB on Jul 24, 2008 11:47 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don Quixote eating up your spare time, Azru?

Or is it War and Peace by now?

I’ve wondered how your reading project is going. I only saw that thread the other day, as I was looking for some posts back in March (remember when Larry was preparing his Five Questions for 2008 for Hardball Times? I was wondering how insightful his and our questions were; some were, some weren’t).

by Youneverknow on Jul 24, 2008 11:49 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I finished Don Quixote

Wildly overrated. There were parts of it that were good but mostly it was a death march for me to finish that book. Wrapped up Moby Dick shortly thereafter—another disappointment although somewhat more interesting. I have a hard time appreciating books solely for their historical relevance. I need something entertaining.

I was getting ready to read Ulysses when the new Steven Erikson book (“Bonehunters”) was released—now I’m rereading the books leading up to that (read the first 3 in 3 weeks) as The Malazan Book of the Fallen are, without a doubt, the best books I’ve ever read. The only thing that comes even close is Robert Jordan’s Wheel of Time series.

by azruavatar on Jul 24, 2008 11:58 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

someday i will try to read don quixote in spanish

i’ll probably last about a week and just read it in english, but damnit, i went to college and i want my education to be worth something! i’m sorry moby dick disappointed you… i happen to feel it’s probably the best american work of literature i’ve ever read, but that’s with the complete acknowledgment that i’m kind of a geek and also that it’s probably way better to read for a class with a good professor as opposed to on your own… way too much random stuff that goes on forever to be all that entertaining.
never read robert jordan, but currently reading terry goodkind… any similarity? i find myself liking goodkind a lot and want another substantive fantasy series after i eventually finish.
um… baseball… uh… who was it that asked the open-ended question recently about whether the cards will/should throw in the towel for ‘08 in the event of a brewers sweep? can we be superstitious and irrational and blame that person for the last three games? might make us feel better…

by mattybobo on Jul 24, 2008 12:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

YES!! another SE fan

ok so i hardly ever post here, maybe i’ll change that but i had to comment on Steven Erikson. He is by far my favorite form of fictional entertainment-books, movies, tv, games, etc. His books are absolutely amazing. They are the best books i’ve ever read by leaps and bounds. Azru-did you know he is up to 8 now? You can get 7-8 on amazon.co.uk if you’re desperate for them once you finish the Bonehunters. Also, did you know Erikson created the world with a friend, who he is sharing the world with? His name Ian Something Esselmount. His first book is out—Knight of Knives (prequel of sorts, good stuff). His 2nd, Return of the Crimson Guard should be out soon. I’ve pre-orded it but can’t remember the date.

Also, i’m not sure how into you are but if you haven’t stumbled across it, i’ve found this to be the best site for discussion of the series:

http://www.malazanworld.com/forums/

Erikson himself posts from time to time. They frequently post a prologue before the book comes out. and several members actually know Erikson and give good inside-info.

I too really enjoy Wheel of Time, though some books sorta dragged along. Both though authors destroy Goodkind (sorry Matty!). I read the first 2 Goodkind and found that he borrowed too much from Jordan and i just didn’t like in general. To each his own though. I have no hesitation in recommended Erikson though. All the ppl i’ve let borrow books and such have loved it. it’s confusing at first, but the payoff is totally worth it :P

by kalmavet on Jul 24, 2008 12:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

don't worry about it

i’m interested to hear he borrows from jordan; i don’t consider myself a very learned fantasy fan, but i have liked the genre in the past and started reading goodkind recently because it was recommended by family members. anyway, thanks for the info, i’ll probably check jordan and erikson out eventually.

by mattybobo on Jul 24, 2008 12:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

no problem

Jordan is the guy who got me back into the genre a few years back and Erikson has me horribly hooked. if you have more questions and such drop me a PM or something. Oh and be warned, just about everyone feels that Jordan’s series slipped up a bit in books 7-10, that’s alot to read with considerably less entertainment value imo. 11 was good again though.

by kalmavet on Jul 24, 2008 12:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

check out George RR Martin

he kinda schools all those guys!

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2008 1:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not for me

his first 3 books were great but the 4th sucked. and came w/ the promise that the 5th would be just around the corner. in the back of the book he even commented on how the 4th book lacked all of the main characters. well, here we are 4 years later and i’m still waiting for book 5.

give me Erikson any day. Have you read Erikson? He cranks out a book every 1-1.5 yrs and they are epic. Martin is a great author but his approach towards his fans is frustrating and i’m sick of waiting.

by kalmavet on Jul 24, 2008 3:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've heard that he's finally working on that last one

but I’m only on the first book, so I have no idea

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2008 3:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah he is

his blog makes it sound like he’s at least getting close. then add about 6 months for it to come out after he submits it to the publishing co. but it’s not the last one. i think it’s supposed to be 7 books, but i wonder if it won’t get extended.

by kalmavet on Jul 24, 2008 4:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I have to disagree

I think that As I Lay Dying is the great American novel. Faulkner just does it for me in a way that Melville can’t. Runner up would be Old Man and the Sea. Good luck on Ulysses, I can’t tell you how many times I started that. Finnegan’s Wake took forever to get through. As far as baseball, despite this series, the Cards are by no means out of it. However, the next several weeks will tell the tale. The Cubs seem to be falling to earth and it could easily be the Brewers and the Cards coming out of the Central with the Cubs failing to make the playoffs entirely. I tend to agree with LaRusa that we just need to score more runs. When you only give up three or four in 9 innings, you have to win most of those games. The question then becomes, where does that come from and where does he fit in?

We are clearly set at 2 OF positions (Ank and Ludwick), 1B, 3B, and Catcher. That means that any offensive help must come in the form of a 2 month rental in the OF (Rasmus is clearly the 3rd OF of the future) or (perhaps, and probably prefereably) a MIF. Given cost considerations, the most likely scenario is a 2 month rental in the OF. A few considerations (based on contract year, or club option for 2009): Adam Dunn, costly, but monster power, Ken Griffey Jr., (probably doesn’t want to move), and Raul Ibanez (really intriguing, decent power, walk year, maybe combine with deal for Washburn) seem to be the best possibilities. All three are in a walk year, all three could be considered salary dumps, and all three represent a significant power upgrade as the 3rd outfielder. Considering the Cincinnati is in our division and that Jockety is their GM, I think that Ibanez is probably the most likely option.

Lets look at his numbers:
.277/.345/.455 with an OPS of .800 which is just below his career OPS of .814.

Compare that to Skip Schumaker:
.292/.357/.419 with an OPS of .776 which is above his career OPS of .757.

Ibanez has much more power than Schumaker and draws more walks. Ibanez has 14 HR’s on the season, more than double Schumaker’s 6. All in all, this would be a nice upgrade as it would allow Schumaker to be where he really belongs, which is as a 4th outfielder. This does, however, leave a hole in the leadoff slot that Schumaker has been filling as of late. I think given that it would be, at least in part, a salary dump, we could have Ibanez for Duncan (I know he’s on the DL) and a B-level prospect. If we went for a trade with Washburn too (which I don’t think is such a great idea) we would include Reyes, and another B-level guy.

Just some thoughts.

by ckeiner on Jul 24, 2008 4:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

our runs scored per game is really high

we just can’t quite raise that number…

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2008 5:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Reading something like that for fun

for me usually means looking for an annotated version. There is just so much that’s stylistically diffrent today. It’s like reading Hugo. I love Hugo, but I can’t bring myself to read 200 pages about the route that Claude Frollo took from Notre Dame to pick up his milk at the Market, and how it’s wildly different from the route that Esmerelda took.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jul 24, 2008 12:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sorry, annotated and abridged is what I meant

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jul 24, 2008 12:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

but I'm glad that I read 20 or 30 pages of Don Quixote in Spanish

just so that I could recognize the language that the faun was using in “Pan’s Labrynth” as archaic Spanish, rather than just weird sounding.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jul 24, 2008 12:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Try

Com mes va mes m’hi enfund

by CalvinB on Jul 24, 2008 12:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Thats Interesting

I got about 5/6 through the first book in the Wheel of Time series and I totally lost interest. It just wouldn’t end. I might have to pick it back up and try it again. I’ll take a look at the Malazan book of the fallen also. Anytime I hear that a book is the best someone has ever read I just have to go see if I I like them. Though, I doubt they’ll be the best books ever, nothing can beat the Lord of the Rings….... ;)

New Member of the Skip Schumaker Fan Club

by cyko42 on Jul 24, 2008 12:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Try....

INTO THIN AIR …..by John Krakauer ….I found it hard to put down.

by Timbo02 on Jul 24, 2008 12:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Malazan

loved LotR but Malazan is more purely entertaining.ducks lightning that is high end blasphemy i’m sure. Erikson throws sci-fi/fantasy conventions on their heads and is a breath of fresh air. there’s really nothing like it. :)

by kalmavet on Jul 24, 2008 12:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

check out A Song of Ice and Fire series.

Blows Wheel of Time out of the water, I even enjoyed them more than Lord of the Rings

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 24, 2008 12:40 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ah yes

those are the books I’ve been talking about. I’ve barely started the first one and think it’s going to be the best fantasy series I’ve read yet. I have a very fond spot for the Dragonlance Chronicles though…

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2008 1:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh dang

sorry if my post above was a spoiler of sorts, i’m glad it didn’t contain any plot details haha :)

ASoIaF is better than WoT, but not better than Malazan imo. i’d say it’s better than LotR too. i just wish he write more. instead Martin has a million side projects.

by kalmavet on Jul 24, 2008 3:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

and

whereabouts in chitown are you?

i was up there for 4 years, moved to Memphis a year ago. it’s umm interesting being cards fan up there. I always enjoyed much the sox and cubs hate each other.

by kalmavet on Jul 24, 2008 3:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I've lived here over 10 years

I’ve been in depaul area, uptown, humboldt park, now logan square. it is interesting, but there’s so many people up here I always run into other cardinals fans, at least once a week or so

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2008 3:57 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ah that makes sense

i was in the NW ‘burbs so it was all yuppies, mostly cubs fans w/ a few angry sox fans. i knew a few fellow cards fans, but not many.

by kalmavet on Jul 24, 2008 4:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm on Winter's Heart of the Wheel of Time series

but I’m starting A Game of Thrones by George RR Martin and I think I’m going to like this series even more… it will be interesting to see how the last WOT book is finished up, for sure. and I’ve heard there’s supposed to be an HBO tv series with several seasons for the George RR Martin books, I really hope that comes to fruition; it could be even better than the Lord of the Rings movies (since it’s spread out over several seasons of episodes). good luck reading Joyce; I’ve heard that Ulysses is murder, and I tried to read one page of Finnegan’s Wake and found it near impossible.

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2008 12:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

i'm gonna start repeating myself haha

Winter’s Heart is pretty good. the ending is amazing! sadly, book 10, Crossroads of Twilight, is the worst of the series (comparable to book 4 of Martin’s). thankfully, 11 was quite good though. I’m looking forward to the final book even tough RJ, God bless his soul, isn’t writing it.

by kalmavet on Jul 24, 2008 3:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I heard George RR Martin might help finish the last one

and Jordan’s wife and cousin I think know how the story ends, since he told them the ending before he died

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2008 3:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Brian Sanderson

is writing the last one. His own series (2 books in) has been very well received. I just finished reading them and it’s pretty good. much more straightforward than some of Jordan’s work, but with so much to do that may be a good thing for book 10. his wife is definitely helping too :)

by kalmavet on Jul 24, 2008 4:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Reality Check

After the artificial high of sweeping the Padres, the Cardinals play the Brewers and are in the brink of surrendering all the ground gained against San Diego. This team continues to hover around 10 games over .500 and just does not have the talent to get much better at the moment. Carpenter and Wainwright may make a difference, but somehow I doubt it. The offense is good, but too many games are 3 runs or lower and that just won’t win enough games. I can’t see any trade or Jocketty-esque off-waivers claim coup that puts this team into playoff contention. With the Brewers series, THIS IS playoff baseball, and the Cardinals are close, but not on target. Hey… it’s better than the 70 win team most people thought we were getting at the beginning of the season, right?

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

by palampe on Jul 24, 2008 11:51 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah, but at least we haven't LOST ground since

the all-start break.

Also, if we can somehow win tonight, and the Cubs lose. We’ll be a miraculous two games out despite a three game losing streak to a competing division counterpart.

I think it seems a lot worse than it is. But yeah, I agree to an extent. We are VERY close to being able to win in the playoffs. I will still argue that that one part we need, though, is one more stopper in our bullpen. We would be in first place right now if we had a Mahay (hint hint) that we could rely on on a constant basis.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Jul 24, 2008 12:00 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that's right

the playoffs are a loooong ways away, as evidenced by last season’s Rockies team

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2008 1:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Night is always darkest just before the dawn

First and foremost, I think that we need to revive “The Spirit of (1982) St. Louis” by digging the powder blue jerseys out of storage and donning them for tonight’s game. While I don’t believe much in the supernatural of baseball, what could it hurt? (Yes, I fully plan on wearing my “1982 World Series Champions” tee for tonight’s game. What about it?)

Secondly, our position is not that bad. We’ve lost three consecutive games to the Brewers, yes, but they were close, hard-fought games. We are only 3 GB of Chicago for the NL Central lead and 2 GB of the Wild Card. We are in a good position. If Mo can swing a deal to bolster the ‘pen and we can get either Carp or Wainwright back in the rotation through season’s end, we stand a good chance of being in this race ‘til the end.

by bgh on Jul 24, 2008 11:53 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm thinking that the return of those two

is going to be a pretty big lift

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2008 1:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tired Issue

But given that Dewitt had nothing to say about it, and given that there are obvious needs to get this team over the hump, it’s safe to assume the Cards will stick with what they’ve got this season, which appears to be not enough to make a run to the postseason, right?

I’m not necessarily objecting here; as Palampe mentioned this is still way better than anticipated and keeps us on track for ‘09, but I should stop anticipating help, right? Thoughts?

by DesiBird on Jul 24, 2008 11:53 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm still trying to understand

how pitchers that pitch in a certain style, can be depended upon to remain healthy, no matter what repairs they’ve had done. Why should Wellenmyer return to low mileage performance? Why won’t Carpenter blow up his new elbow? Are they going to change their delivery’s?

by CalvinB on Jul 24, 2008 2:42 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Buck up, little buckaroos

Any team looks inept when a great pitcher has a great night.

“It’s a long season, and you gotta trust.” —Annie Savoy

Baseball players have to keep an even keel during their long season. Not too high, not too low. Sometimes that’s a good approach for us, too.

by Youneverknow on Jul 24, 2008 11:54 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ya

the cards aren’t very good batters compared to the patient, strike zone oriented Brewers. But there are other teams that will beat them. We need to take care of business where we can. Everyone else might choke like in 06.

by CalvinB on Jul 24, 2008 11:59 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I must have missed those.

They were staring at Lohse’s corner fastballs like they would be beaten if they chased.

by CalvinB on Jul 24, 2008 2:44 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

NO!

We have to get CRAZY HIGH! when we sweep the padres, and then fall through the FLOOR! when we lose three in a row. WE MUST!

Actually.. that whole “even keel” thing doesn’t sound so bad…

"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."

by BigMOman on Jul 24, 2008 11:59 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sabathia

The guy is a stud. He threw only 2 more pitches to get through a complete game then Looper threw to get through 5 innings. You’re just not going to beat him very often unless your staff ace is throwing or he’s having a really bad night—which he hasn’t had in nearly two months.

On the bright side, the Cards have lost three in a row but still only find themselves 2 games out of the Wildcard and 3 games back of the Cubs in the division since their offensive juggarnaut can’t seem to consistently get going outside of the friendly confines at Wrigley.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 24, 2008 11:58 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I can only see...

The Brewers running away with this division. I think the Cubs will not be as good in the 2nd half as they were in the 1st. Their bullpen is beat up and it will cost them some games, especially since their acquired ace doesn’t have the best durability and will probably not push his pitch counts. I can see the Brewers sweeping the Cubs and a lot of other teams the rest of the way out. So, as long as we stay close to the Cubs by September (Cubs play only 9 of 25 games at home in September – 6 of the home games are vs. the Brewers and Cards) we can still make a run (especially since Wainwright and Carpenter should be back in full swing).

by Jumsy on Jul 24, 2008 12:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Brewers are the best team in the League

They’re just starting to really hit and I have all the faith in the world they trade for a valuable bullpen arm to help shore up the bullpen.

by Tackle Box on Jul 24, 2008 12:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if you wanna see dejected fans

go over to the stltoday forums. everyone there wants mo to make a move just to make a move. reality is we still are in it even if we get swept by the brewers. its baseball anything can happen

Rick Ankiel could throw out Chuck Norris. Easy.

by emrfg8 on Jul 24, 2008 11:58 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ugh. Just a few minutes late with the FP post.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jul 24, 2008 11:59 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No toes stepped on

More than anything, I changed a bunch of things, and was frustrated with being as late as I was

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jul 24, 2008 2:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

reality check

1. It’s not even august yet.
2. We play a lot of games against the rest of the Central still.
3. Two front line pitchers could possibly be on their way with a probability that one will perform well.
4. In the standings the Cardinals are right in the thick of it even if (knock on wood) they get swept.

Chill out.

by spencegrif on Jul 24, 2008 12:00 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

....my quick smells like french toast...

by mstreeter06 on Jul 24, 2008 12:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Only caveat

I agree with the whole “long season, stay put, don’t rush to any conclusions” mentality put forward by many on this blog. If anything, that’s smarter than trading the farm-hands away for rental relievers…

I guess the question I have is: do we really feel like we are going to be in the playoffs come the end of September? And if not, would it be better to make decisions for next year, including trading away Lohse, shutting down ( or at least being extremely conservative) with Wainright and Carpenter, and potentially using August/September as an audition opportunity for players who may have play and or trade value? This list could include all of the minor-leaguers already called up this year, as well as Anderson, Salas, etc.

I know that’s a tough pill to swallow, (especially for us fans…) but if the reality of being a “buyer” is trading 3 wins in 2009/2010 for 1 win this year (which, I think, the “stand-pat” folks rightly rail against), shouldn’t we also consider the inverse role of being a seller, and trading 1 win this year for 3 wins in 2009/2010 ?

by duncans_army on Jul 24, 2008 1:17 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

schedule realities

2008 head-to-head:

Cardinals vs. Nationals: 5-1
Cardinals vs. Padres: 6-1
Cardinals vs. Astros: 8-4

13 games over .500

Cardinals vs. other opponents: 38-40

What does this mean? I’m glad you asked:

- The ‘Birds have taken care of business against these three lesser teams. However, they’ve only got three games left against Houston, and they’re done with Washington and San Diego.

- The ‘Birds have been mediocre against the rest of the league. 7-8 in interleague, 31-32 vs. the rest of the National League. The worst head-to-head record is against the Brew Crew: 4-8.

Let’s say the Cardinals take two out of those last three against Houston, and finish .500 against all other opponents combined. (Reasonable? I think so, but you’re welcome to disagree. That’s what this site is all about, right?) That’s 14 games over .500, or an 88-74 record. That’s a successful season, especially when compared to most preseason expectations. Last year’s wild card winner had 89 regular season victories plus a one-game playoff win to get in. The only problem with thinking wild card is the Cards’ current standing as the 3rd place team in the division.

Wainwright and Carpenter should help my proposed 14-game over .500 scenario come to fruition, but the bottom line is the Cards gotta take care of remaining games with the Cubs and the Brewers in order to be there at the end. Otherwise, we’ll be reprising the roles of last year’s Mets and Padres—decent season, but not good enough to play for the big prize.

TSF

by TedSimmonsFan on Jul 24, 2008 2:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'm SO sick...

of the Brew’s routine at the end of these games….. that whole “shirt ” thing…..agh…....

by Timbo02 on Jul 24, 2008 12:02 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

From what I've seen?

I don’t see that Brewer team “folding”...no….they are a good well rounded team and I think they are going to be in 1st place very soon. But?..hell it’s baseball…anything can happen. It wouldn’t ruin my day to see those guys go on a losing streak…sure.

by Timbo02 on Jul 24, 2008 12:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

But do not underestimate Ted Simmons, sage advisor, as Ned Yost's right hand man.

He is one incredibly smart baseball dude, and he’s seen just about everything that can happen on a baseball field. I really think he’s there to make sure Yost THINKS before he acts. This Brewer team is one you are going to have to beat outright. Did you notice Rickie Weeks almost caused a loss with bad defensive plays? Did you see how he bounced back and made some very good plays the next day? Nope. These guys aren’t going to give it up-you are going to have to beat them fair and square. Even their maligned bullpen, in the person of Soloman Torres gave it up and came right back and got it done the next inning. Do not write these guys off. Last year is fresh in their memories…..

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jul 24, 2008 12:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Concerns about '09.

First and foremost, I’m not a ledge jumper. I have been pleasantly surprised with this team, and while I didn’t think they were a last place team, they’re doing a lot better than I thought they would. Granted, I figured they were about a thrid place team (and what do ya know).

Anyway, I also am fine with the stand pat philosophy and don’t want to jeopardize too much just for a run for the playoffs against two teams who are, in reality, much better than the Cardinals. I just don’t see how a bullpen arm really helps that much, since I feel the “issues” go much deeper than what could be fixed cheaply.

Anyway, I’m starting to have concerns about next year. At the begining of the year, I think most of us decided that ‘09 was a more realistic target, but I’m having doubts. Next year, we’re sure to see Colby Rasmus in stead of Skip. So, I have a good feeling the outfield will be Ludwick, Ankiel, and Rasmus (from left to right). The infield is set at first and third with Pujols and Glaus, while the middle infield is still a mystery. I think Brendan Ryan has exposed himself to be no better than Izturis albeit with a little more upside maybe. Second base? We’ll still have Kennedy….maybe, but there will probably be someone new at one of those positions. And our catcher is obviously Yadi.

Honestly, the lineup doesn’t concern me much. It this damn pitching staff that does. Are we realistically depending on guys like Carpenter, Garcia, Todd, and Boggs to push the rotation into contention? Carpenter will always be a question mark in my opinion, and the other three haven’t proven enough to me that they’ll be a sure thing next year. Garcia can be really good and so can Todd, but they’re both really young and might be a few years away from realizing their potential. Boggs is just going to be average at best, but he’s also young.

Then you’ve got Wellemeyer and Pineiro who are both question marks but I actually have a reasonable amount of faith in Pineiro to do something that’s at least valuable. (for the record, I don’t worry about Wellemeyer).

Then there’s the bullpen. Once again, see nothing but huge question marks. Perez could be really good or he could be Derrick Turnbow. Motte is the same. Plus, you’re talking about a bunch of young guys again. Hell, maybe Kelvin Jimenez is actually going to be a reliable semi-everyday reliever.

Plus, we always point to how much money is coming off the books this season, but if there’s nothing to spend it on, what’s that matter? The shortstop options aren’t all that impressive and the starting pitching options are no better than this past year. Guys like A.J. Burnett, CC, Sheets are going to get ridiculous amounts of money and I know how no one wants to give any starting pitchers more than a 3 year deal, so I’m not sure who everyone thinks they can sign.

Anyway, I know I didn’t exactly organize this all that well, and am mostly just pouring thoughts on “paper”, but I don’t think this is a team that is realistically ready to contend and succeed next year. I feel that 2010 is more realistic. Is that acceptable? What’s a realistic timetable to expect a serious team?

by Tackle Box on Jul 24, 2008 12:18 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't see the Brewers as much better than us

they are the better team, but not by a wide margin at all. This series has proved that. They are up three games to 0, but all 3 games were very narrow wins and 2 of them could’ve easily gone to the Cardinals.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 24, 2008 12:45 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yep

they are not exactly blowing us out of the water

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2008 1:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not sure i understand

if you don’t have concerns about wainwright, you are confident piniero will be his ok self, and are not worrying about welley, then you’ve got your top three starters right there. Plus you’d have carp, who is certainly a question mark, but has potential to be anywhere from a solid back of the rotation guy to regaining his cy young form and a bevy of young pitchers to take that 5th spot. Any staff is full of questions, but it seems like the cardinals also have lots of obvious potential answers. I think most people would agree that signing loshe for that much balleyhooed “reasonable price” would be great, but what a reasonable price might be and what he might actually demand come winter are the biggest question marks of them all regarding the rotation. As for the bullpen and MI, i’ll obstain from discussion for the moment.

by spencegrif on Jul 24, 2008 1:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I am concerned about Wellemeyer

maybe it didn’t come across in my origional comment (and I’m in a hurry so I’m electing to not re-read it), but you’ve got a big question mark in Carpenter and a fairly decent sized one in Welley. I have complete faith in Wagonmaker, and have complete faith in Joel Pineiro to be Joel Pineiro (take that for what it’s worth).

I just don’t see how next years team is going to be much different than this year’s team.

by Tackle Box on Jul 24, 2008 1:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not to be annoying

but you always spell original wrong. imo Welley would make a good closer…

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2008 1:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

use firefox!

spell check built into the browser!

"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."

by BigMOman on Jul 24, 2008 1:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

This is part of the rebuilding process

You will have mediocre teams for periods of 3-5 years when you’re trying to rebuild your farm system. To be honest, our 3-5 year period probably started in 2006, even though we won the World Series that year. There weren’t any big free-agent signings that offseason, no big-time stud player coming in at the deadline, and we didn’t trade away a bunch of prospects to bring someone in either. Last year the club overachieved for a good two months of the season (July, August), and was pretty poor the entire rest of the season (April, May, June, September). Obviously injuries played a big part in both of those seasons, but even teams that spend huge amounts of money have issues when a number of key players go down. Just look at how the Yankees struggled this season with all the pitching injuries and injuries to key players like Posada, Matsui, and A-Rod.

This club is entirely overachieving anyone’s expectations to this point. I had them at 80-82 for the season and at this point they’re 12 games better than that. If Carpenter and WW can combine to give the team 22-25 starts down the stretch, there’s no reason that this club can’t be in the playoff hunt all the way down to the wire.

I do think this team sets up very well for 2009 as well. If Rasmus plays even half as good as we all think he will, he’s going to be a giant upgrade in the outfield. Along with Ankiel and Ludwick, they will have, arguably, the best defensive outfield in the big leagues at that point. Pujols and Glaus are in the top five in the NL at their positions, and I’m sure that an offensive minded middle infielder is on the shopping list for Mo in the offseason, as we don’t currently have any MLB ready players at those positions. I would target second base, since that seems to have to most likely number of quality candidates on the free agent market. Orlando Hudson would be my choice, Mark Ellis would probably be my second choice of the available guys.

I think the rotation is going to be fine. You get Carp, WW, and Piniero back and hopefully the other two spots can be filled from the minor leagues with guys like Todd, Garcia, and Boggs. The offseason pickups should be in the bullpen. A good lefty reliever is needed unless Tyler Johnson can return from injury. Everyone seems to forget the Josh Kinney could be ready to pitch again next year and he was an instrumental part of the bullpen in 2006 as a set-up man. With TJ and Kinney in the fold, Perez or McClellan becomes your closer, Motte will hopefully be ready to pitch at the big league level, and Franklin can go back to middle relief where he belongs. That gives you a roster of something like this:

C Molina, Scrap-Heap Backup
1B Pujols
2B Kennedy, FA Ack (Hudson, Ellis),
SS Ryan or FA Ack
3B Glaus
MI Miles, Hoffpauir, Barden
CN Freese
OF Rasmus, Ankiel, Ludwick, Barton, Mather

SP Carp, WW, Piniero, Boggs, Garcia
MR Franklin, Kinney, Johnson, Springer(unless he retires), FA LOOGY
SU Motte, McClellan, Todd
CL Perez

I left Duncan off of the list as I expect him to be traded if Rasmus makes the ballclub. At that point he’s got nowhere to play and someone will be looking for a left handed hitter with power who can play 1B or corner outfield.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 24, 2008 3:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Counting on Kinney AND Johnson

to shore up the bullpen (let alone one of them) is really far fetched IMO. Looking at that bullpen, I don’t trust any of them to fufill the role you’ve given them. Maybe they could, but that bullpen could be just as bad as this one. Especially if Springer does retire (which I’m not sure he will). You’re basically relying on two guys coming off major injuries, 3 rookies basically (Motte, Todd, Perez….two of which still haven’t thrown a Major League inning), and a 1st year closer who can’t seem to throw anything over the plate consistantly right now other than his fastball, which is pretty darn good but not great.

Not to mention two rookies in your starting rotation, along with a huge question mark in Carpenter….btw, where’s Wellemeyer? Outside of Wainwright, who on that staff do you realistically think could pitch 200 innings and win northwards of 15 games? And I know that people hate looking at pitcher wins, but you better hope you have a mininum of 2 guys on that staff with at least 15 wins or else you bullpen is getting way overused or your offense sucks.

As for the offense/defense, I don’t see that lineup as any type of an upgrade over what the team has now. And as far as the MI, Hudson would be fine, but I think he’s going to be in pretty high demand this offseason. Are you willing to go to 4 years on him? And I just don’t get the fascination with Mark Ellis. He’s average in my opinion and would be at best a platoon partner with Kennedy. The shortstop FA options aren’t any good and if they are (Furcal) they get hurt way too much.

Btw, I wouldn’t get too geeked up over a Ludwick, Ankiel, Rasmus outfield thinking it’s going to be so much better than the outfield we have now. And that’s assuming that Ludwick performs close to what he’s done this year.

Anyway, I just don’t see how I can sit back and think next year is our year. Just seems like the same team.

by Tackle Box on Jul 24, 2008 4:51 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Another thing...

Maybe it’s just me, but doesn’t it seem like we always get teams when they’re hot this year? It doesn’t apply to everyone, but it happens often enough to be noticeable.

Also, the Brewers are better than us, and they’re better than the Cubs too. Their offense is just as good, and Sabathia/Sheets >>>>Zambrano/Harden, IMHO.

by mattisnotfrench on Jul 24, 2008 1:01 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

well

we did get to play the Brewers when they weren’t hitting much earlier in the season. I wish we could have done a little better then…

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2008 2:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Too many "ifs"

I read all these posts and some of them are really good and thoughtful.

A recurring theme that bothers me are all the “ifs.” ” if Carpenter, If Wainright, If Rasmus,” on and on. You’re painting rosy pictures about the squad IF everything falls in place. Fellas, that’s asking a lot…..too much.

As for bagging the rest of the season and playing the prospects, that would be interesting but NO manager – especially TLR – is going to concede the season and do that. Coaches want to win now (as well as the future). I’d like to see the front office be a little bit more aggressive in dealing with our shortcomings and little more open with their checkbook in the off season. I am tired of hearing about “oh, we’re just a small market and….” Bullshit – every owner in pro sports is worth a ton of money. The problem is that most don’t want to spend it. I’m not saying go crazy….but be a little more active and open to giving proven players some bucks to keep them here, besides a handful…..and go get a reliever, even if it’s expensive. It’s worth it; as we have seen this season.

I guess I’m frustrated at this point. Sorry if I overdid the “vent.”“

by ccthemovieman on Jul 24, 2008 5:54 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not to mention

our top prospect can’t even play, so why play the prospects?

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 24, 2008 7:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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