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The Waiting is the hardest part

Joe Sheehan, at Baseball Prospectus, posted his NL second half preview online yesterday. Fortunately, (I believe) right now you can read this article and others at BP for free. There was some prophecy in it as well as a prediction about how Mozeliak will handle the next 10 days. Sheehan’s "player to watch" – Rickie Weeks. Rickie Weeks! Weeks, as we all know by now, had 2 hits and a walk last night. One of his hits was the key to the Brewers’ victory – a 3 run bomb into Big Mac Land off Joel Pineiro. Weeks has had a Kennedy-esque first half w/ a VORP of 2.2, an OPS of 691, and 73 K’s in 310 AB’s. He’s been positively awful but had an outstanding game yesterday, capped off by the homer. If he does play well the last couple of months, the Brewers will be tough.

The key part of Sheehan’s article that dealt w/ the Cardinals made the point that the team’s time horizon for winning really begins next year. Don’t misinterpret this as me giving up on this year – I’m not. It took awhile for me to get used to the idea that the team would be competitive this year but now that I’m on board, I’m staying there and I think the Cards will be in it ‘til the end. Sheehan says:

The target year for this organization is 2009, and every move they make that lessens their chance of winning in that year is a mistake. As hard as it must be for Tony La Russa to deal with, help isn’t coming, and the choice not to get that help is the right long-term decision.
First of all, I’m going on record as saying that Sheehan’s right – at least w/ most of it. If Mo, in the next 10 days, makes a move that sacrifices winning in the future for the possibility of winning today, he’s making a mistake. Giving up fringe prospects such as Parisi or possibly Jon Jay or maybe even Boggs wouldn’t be the calamity that giving up someone like Rasmus, Perez, or Garcia might but Mo needs to be careful about trading for players who are either free agents at the end of the year OR create longer term problems re: payroll or blocking prospects.

That part of Sheehan’s article is somewhat uninspiring. I mean, it’s just not that bold a statement to say that the Cards shouldn’t sacrifice the future for a chance at winning today. However, the next sentence says that "help isn’t coming" and implies that LaRussa isn’t going to like the fact that Mozeliak isn’t going to trade for veteran help. If Mo does decide to stand pat and go w/ what we’ve got, there’s little doubt that Tony will be unhappy. He’s already been outspoken about the Cards’ need to acquire someone following the Brewers’ and Cubs’ major acquisitions a week and a half ago.

Sheehan makes the prediction that Mo will stand pat at the trade deadline or, at least, will make a marginal addition to the roster rather than the big splash LaRussa seems to favor. It’s interesting that he would make such a prediction considering the fact that Mozeliak has no real track record that offers any sort of predictive value. He’s never been the GM of a contending team at the trade deadline. Even in the offseason, most saw the Cards as Sheehan does – as playing for 2009 – and Mozeliak’s decisions this offseason seem to indicate that that was his view as well. Maybe that’s enough to give Sheehan enough insight to feel comfortable predicting that Mo will do little over the next 10 days.

If Sheehan’s right, of course, that means no Brian Fuentes, no Matt Holliday, Jason Bay or Xavier Nady. Don’t count on Huston Street or Justin Duchscherer or probably even Jarrod Washburn. Ray Durham’s now off the market but we won’t be seeing Grudzielanek return to St. Louis if Sheehan’s right. These names, save Washburn, would all come w/ a fairly hefty price tag and Sheehan’s right when he says that "the choice not to get that help is the right long-term decision."

Still, I really think that the Cards will need a little help in order to remain ahead of the Brewers down the stretch. LaRussa feels the team needs a big hitter rather than a pitcher whereas I would argue that, if anything, the pitching staff needs help. The bullpen problems have been discussed ad-nauseum and they, once again, showed up last night. This time, it was our current "closer" (as opposed to last year’s closer or one of our lefties) who didn’t get it done. We’ve had 2 consistent arms in the pen – Kyle McClellan and Russ Springer. It’s difficult to say whether or not McClellan’s going to hold up as he’s only once in his professional career thrown more than 59.2 IP (128 in 2004) and he’s already at 54 this year. Still, we’re going to have to count on him to have any chance down the stretch. Is there any wonder that Sheehan also says that the NL Central’s "Pitcher to Watch" is Chris Perez. He was recently demoted to Memphis to work on his slider but he won’t be there long.

As the bullpen’s problems have gotten most of the attention, particularly of late, little has been said about the starting rotation. Pineiro threw 6 IP last year though he didn’t pitch particularly well. Though the starters are averaging 5.86 innings per start – 3rd in the NL, they haven’t had a starter get an out in the 8th inning since June 27, when Pineiro went 7.2 IP against the Royals. He gave up 7 ER in that game. That said, while Lohse (tonight’s starter) has been extremely good, the other starters have become 5-6 inning guys – at the most. If the pen’s not going to be any better, we’ll need to get more from Looper, Pineiro, et al. Unfortunately, their shakiness means we need to have a stronger pen. It’s the worst of all Catch-22s.

The one statement from Sheehan’s column that I take issue with is where he says that "help isn’t coming." I’m hoping he’s wrong. The team clearly needs Wainwright back in the rotation. First of all, he’ll settle that 5th spot that has seen Parisi, Boggs, Garcia take turns in the rotation. It appears likely that Brad Thompson will pitch in that spot Thursday opposite Sheets. But Wainwright’s return will allow him to eat more innings than the aforementioned replacements have, thus taking some of the burden off the pen. It will reduce their workload and allow Tony to use the better ones more frequently and the other ones less frequently. In June and July, the pen has given up 154 hits, 68 walks, and 18 homers against 113 K’s in 141.1 IP. Here are the ERAs for the rotation and the pen – comparing the first 2 months w/ the most recent month and a half:

April/May June/July
Rotation 4.06 4.60
Bullpen 4.00 4.46

Wainwright’s last start before going on the DL was June 7. Both the rotation have been considerably worse since he’s been on the DL and the team will almost certainly improve when he returns.

With any luck, Carpenter’s return will improve the team as well and, as I said earlier, Chris Perez won’t remain at Memphis forever. The point is that, even w/o Mo trading for anyone, the pitching staff should benefit by the "additions" of Wainwright, Carpenter, and Perez.

Now, you’ve by now all realized that I’m working under 2 pretty heavy assumptions: first – that Carpenter will return healthy and able to help the team. There’s a gamble w/ any "addition" and I can’t imagine that Carpenter won’t pitch at least as well as most of the pitchers we might add via trade. The second assumption is that Wellemeyer’s elbow is OK and he’ll finish the season as a healthy member of the rotation. That would enable us to move either Looper or Pineiro to the pen. Even if we end up w/ EITHER Carpenter OR Wellemeyer, the simple addition of Adam Wainwright adds more to the team than anything Mo could feasibly do at the trade deadline, and it will cost us nothing in 2009.

So, Cards’ fans: Be not afraid! Help is on the way in the form of Wainwright, (hopefully) Carpenter, and Perez. I’m still not opposed to adding a lesser-known (and less costly in terms of prospects!) lefty for the pen to replace Randy Flores. I’m thinking maybe Will Ohman or John Grabow . Ohman’s clearly better than Grabow but either are better than Flores and would provide some relief w/o bankrupting our future. Meanwhile, our present best starter, Kyle Lohse, goes tonight. He’s been terrific and has thrown 7 innings in each of the last 4 starts. He’s also been fantastic at home this year – 2.79 ERA. With Sabathia and Sheets going in the next 2 games, we’ll need to win this one.

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Sheehan

most likely means help isn’t on the way from outside the organization…and i hope the hell he’s right.

if they add anyone, it needs to be a Mahay from KC or one of the Pirates lefties…someone of that ilk. No need to make a deal for someone like Fuentes, Holliday, Bay or Nady.

the only guy i wouldn’t mind them making a play at…Huston Street. pretty sure he is still under contract for 2 or 3 more years and is still only, what, 24 or 25. if it’d take Rasmus then no thanks…but Anderson and a few marginal prospects? i’d probably do it.

by lopey986 on Jul 22, 2008 1:46 AM EDT   0 recs

Mahay has an LOB% of nearly 85

he’s not pitching any better than he has in the past three years when he was a back of the pen option. He may be an upgrade but his value isn’t terribly high especially w/ a multiyear contract.

by azruavatar on Jul 22, 2008 8:38 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

His walks and homers

are down, which helps with the old LOB numbers.

by haltz on Jul 22, 2008 9:00 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Not that the HR numbers

are necessarily sustainable (or that he’s a 1.8 ERA guy), but he is pitching better.

by haltz on Jul 22, 2008 9:02 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

the HR rate looks fluky

and I’m not saying he hasn’t pitched well. Even if he pitches like he has over the previous two seasons he’s probably an upgrade but I’m wary of trading for relievers.

by azruavatar on Jul 22, 2008 9:28 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Don't know if it will happen

but the move to make now is obviously to get some kind of closer. The cardiac twins (Franklin & Izzy) are NOT getting the job done and are thowing meatballs up there almost every outing now. If we have any hopes to make the playoffs…(other than trying to figure out how to hit the Cubs starters)..we need a better closer than can finish off a close lead in the 9th. Forget the “impact bat”, 5th starter or 2nd baseman…a closer is what this team needs badly.

Huston Street & George Sherrill are two guys that might be up for grabs but both will be costly and frankly Street hasn’t been lights out this season…so he would be a HUGE gamble…but at this point I am willing to take a chance to have anybody with a little experience in there other than Franklin & Izzy.

by KYCards on Jul 22, 2008 1:55 AM EDT   0 recs

make Reyes the closer

i’m serious.

think about it

at least until Perez is ready.

war late night posts on VEB.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Jul 22, 2008 3:54 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

He can't be any worse than the cardiac twins

but there’s a better chance Big Bird will be our closer rather than Reyes with Tony & Dunc making the calls.

by KYCards on Jul 22, 2008 3:58 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Closer

I think I’ve watched a different Anthony Reyes then some, because there is no way I trust that guy to protect a lead in the ninth inning. My two cents (and i’m sure i’m not the first to suggest) is IF Carpenter can make it back this year they use him as closer. Give him some inning, limit his use this soon after Tommy John.

by billymartin on Jul 22, 2008 9:35 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

wasn't Billy Martin

the quirky guitarist of Faith No More in the early 90’s?

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 1:56 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

heh...

that kinda came From Out Of Nowhere

also, wikipedia says there was a guitarist name jim martin, and a bassist named billy gould… i honestly don’t know faith no more very well.

by mattybobo on Jul 22, 2008 2:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

ah

Jim Martin was the correct name. I was combining him and Billy Gould into one supermusician!

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If you want to check them out

their best album is Angel Dust

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

i like king for a day...

...fool for a lifetime a lot too. diggin’ the grave is perhaps my favorite fnm song.

were you the one who mentioned the melvins the other day? if so, don’t miss their new album, its their best since stoner witch.

by adiueordie on Jul 22, 2008 3:05 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yep

I was. I like it pretty well, I always check out all their stuff. I kinda liked H.A.T. better though

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 5:15 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The thing is...

they clearly have some people they can and should move. Maybe they won’t get much for them, but I have to think anything would be better than say, Flores.

Anderson, for instance, has no future with the team, barring a career ending injury to Yadi.

Reyes should have been moved years ago, but should be moved before his value is any lower (it’s not going to go up).

Duncan too should be looked at. I like Duncan, but Rasmus has to start next year. An OFer needs to go.

Perez also probably should go. He’s never going to be the closer under TLR/Duncan, IMHO.

I don’t think they could get much for Duncan or Reyes, but even a replacement level middle reliever would be helpful at this point, I’d think. Anderson and Perez should fetch someone decent, as they should be quality players eventually (just not here)

by DiscoJer on Jul 22, 2008 1:58 AM EDT   0 recs

perez will never be the closer?

what evidence do you have to back that up? a month of him pitching at the big league level? of course he isn’t the closer right now, he is still wild and shouldn’t be forced into a pressure packed situation at this stage in his career.

honestly, the best move we can make at closer is Kyle McClellan. he has been pretty damn solid this year and i’d like to see him given the chance.

as for outside prospects, bring in a guy like Mahay from KC. i can’t imagine he’d cost that much.

if they are going to panic and make a big trade…steer clear of sherrill and fuentes. i wouldn’t mind making a play for street…maybe a package involving Anderson might work. kurt suzuki isn’t that great of a catcher and they don’t really have anyone else in the pipeline.

as far as reyes, he has no value at all at this point, he is just a throw in for any trade. i don’t know why everyone thinks we are going to get anyone good for him, he sucks.

by lopey986 on Jul 22, 2008 2:02 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

McCellan...

McClellan is the right move, but I doubt La Russa would do it. What are the chances Wainwright might end up there, as part of the “rehab” process and suddenly “just happen” to stay there for the season/postseason?

That probably won’t happen either, but it wouldnt be the first reliever/starter switch for him or a big change in La Russa and Duncans way of doing things. You’re right though, McClellan (no D on the end “nomah”) is the best move right now.

Being Aaron Miles has to be so much more fun than being you...

by cardschinmusic on Jul 22, 2008 5:14 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Regarding Yadi

“Anderson, for instance, has no future with the team, barring a career ending injury to Yadi.”

Like post-concussion syndrome? Yadi could be one concussion away from the end of his career. Catchers that can hit are hard to find and trading Anderson (or Rasmus) would be very foolish in my opinion.

by CURVEBALL on Jul 22, 2008 11:01 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

There’s no rule that says you can’t have two catchers splitting time; a 60/40 split with Yadi and Anderson (down the road) could have the added benefit of having both catchers fresh and hitting at the end of the year…

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Jul 22, 2008 11:06 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

If Carp and Wainwright come back strong

Then I think it would be perfect to have a 60/40 split. From what I have read and heard, Adam and Chris have a pretty good grasp of how to come out and pitch a ballgame. They may not need such a leader/pitch caller behind the plate. Let Yadi work the plate with the glutton of youngsters that could be coming up and let Anderson work with the veteran pitchers on the staff. I like it. It would keep the wear and tear from getting to Molina and it would develop a youngster. If we can teach either of them to play a little 3rd base, that might be a position in which they could play 2-3 times a year each, to give Glaus and/or others a rest…if we wanted their bat in the lineup more.

by stlfan on Jul 22, 2008 11:25 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Oh, man, if Bryan Anderson

could play one or even two other positions, TLR would fall in love with him. Unfortunately from what I heard that’s unlikely.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 22, 2008 11:47 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Unfortunately

That’s what I have heard as well. But they both might be able to pitch in a few times at 1B or 3B to rest other stars…or just to get their bat in the lineup (if they continue to hit that well.)

by stlfan on Jul 22, 2008 12:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

that's what I want

60/40 playing time between Anderson and Yadi in the coming years

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 1:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Most top hitting catching prospects are over-rated

Anderson should be the most trade-able cardinal prospect.

by JMedwick on Jul 22, 2008 2:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

not imo

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:51 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Are you in my head Houston?

That’s two days in a row I come on here to post something and you’ve got your story already up that is pretty much what I wanted to say.

Basically, my question was…

If the Cardinals get swept by the Brewers, do they become sellers?

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 2:11 AM EDT   0 recs

I kind of hope not

since we have quite a few more games left with the Cubs… that getting the wild card won’t be too far of a stretch. But the the million dollar question about that is…. can we beat the Cubs at Wrigley and find a way to score some runs off their starters??? I have my doubts. But if we get swept by the Brewers AND Mo fails to help the team’s bullpen then I think the morale of the team will start to really fall and it could snowball…

by KYCards on Jul 22, 2008 2:18 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The Cards should be sellers, but

Unless they fall flat and loose 7 or 8 out of the next ten games with the Brewers, Mets and Braves the Cards won’t be sellers. (BTW, if the Cards do get walloped and fall back the first person I trade is Lohse followed by Franklin and some combo of Duncan, Skip and Ludwick.)

With that in mind, staying the course and seeing whether additions to the rotation, Carp and Wainwright, don’t do much to stabilize the bullpen by allowing the starters to go longer and the Cards to better deploy their relievers. Most importantly, if the Cards are going to loose games because the pen implodes, have the kids take the beatings and find out what you have with players like Worrell, Perez, and Garcia (as the LOOGY).

by JMedwick on Jul 22, 2008 8:39 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't understand

The Cards should currently be sellers even though they are tied for first for the wild card?

by saladdays on Jul 22, 2008 11:18 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes!

Because this year has been a mirage.

The Cards have real needs that will be exposed come 2009:

The team needs an offensive upgrade at one of the two middle infield postions.

The outfield of Ankiel, Ludwick and Skip are enjoying career years. While I think Ankiel’s performance is sustainable, if the Cards count on Ludwick and Skip to keep it up in 2009, the team will be sorely disappointed.

If the outfield regresses, the Cards will once again be in need of a middle of the order hitter to protect Albert, someone to pair with Glaus in the 4 or 5 spot and someone to stick with Ankiel and Rasmus in the outfield.

Given the bareness of the free agent market, the best method for addressing these issues is through trade. By not trying to move the likes of Ludwick, Skip and others, the Cards will fail to take advantage of this teams overachieving. The idea is to buy low and sell high. That means selling not buying to support a flawed team.

I understand my view is an extreme one. Therefore, the best method is the middle course, don’t make any moves at the trade deadline. Don’t waste prospects trying to push a flawed team over the hump and don’t sink the ship before Wainwright and Carp come back.

by JMedwick on Jul 22, 2008 1:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought the whole idea of this post

was that should we be sellers if we get swept by the Brewers, not right now.

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

also

why do you think we’ll be relying on Skip and Ludwick next year? ever hear of anyone with the initials C.R.?

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Skip will be a bench player next year

with, probably, the starters being Rasmus, Ankiel and Ludwick.

by Tackle Box on Jul 22, 2008 2:07 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yup

unless Luddy gets traded or something

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Two points;

1. I think it will take a lot more than just a sweep by the Brewers to make the Cards sellers. As I said before, unless the Cards drop 7 or 8 out of the next 10 games, this team will stand pat or buy.

2. While Rasmus is clearly part of the team’s future, he is not and will not be a middle of the order hitter and is not a middle infielder. If Ludwick regresses, (and I think he will) the Cards will need someone to hit in the middle of the lineup with Glaus and Pujols. Rasmus, for all of his potential greatness, is not that player. Ludwick should be a trading chip. Kent Bottenfield in 1999.

by JMedwick on Jul 22, 2008 2:09 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Last season

the Cardinals SWEPT the Brewers, decided to be buyers instead of sellers and DIDN’T trade away Isringhausen…a move that is still haunting us.

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 2:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Isringhausen

wouldn’t agree to a trade, too.

by liam on Jul 22, 2008 2:14 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

From a psycholocial perspective

They have come to style themselves contenders because they have been within a few games of a playoff spot all season. On the eve of getting your top two starters back and even after being swept by the team you are fighting with for a playoff spot being at a maximum of 2 games out of the wild card race, the Cards won’t decide to cut bait. It is a lot easier to convince yourself that the team is in contention, particularly with the wild card, than it is to throw in the towel.

by JMedwick on Jul 22, 2008 2:19 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

garcia

is not a loogy, that kid is going to be a starter down the road and they don’t need to go in and start messing with him. if he isn’t starting at the big club he needs to be starting in memphis and taking his turn every 5th game.

by lopey986 on Jul 22, 2008 1:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Bah!

That’s foolish. Garcia would be best off like most young starter, spending a year in the pen learning to throw strikes in tight situations. For most pitchers coming up, that is one of the biggest humps to overcome. Garcia’s issue is control and walking people. Working out of the pen would be a good chance to see if he can learn to throw strikes.

by JMedwick on Jul 22, 2008 1:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Does that mean

that our best hitting prospects should sit on the bench and learn by pinch-hitting in tight situations before they get a chance to be a regular?

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jul 22, 2008 1:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

cmon

pitching and hitting are totally different. not a good comparison. but I see what you are getting at…

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:03 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Very different things.

With LaRussa cycling through his pen, Garcia would have ample opportunity to pitch. A relief pitcher in a highly used pen gets a lot more action than a bench outfielder. If Garcia was going to just come up and ride the pine, then it would be a bad idea. But the Cards have a clear need for another lefty out of the pen and a manager who rapidly burns through relief pitchers.

by JMedwick on Jul 22, 2008 2:06 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

While I agree

that hitting and pitching are different, you are still saying that a guy who has been a starter his whole life should have to learn a new skill (i.e. warming up quickly) at the big league level.

I do think there is some merit to letting a guy get his feet wet in the pen, but it is far from the only way to do it and it is not the most common way to do it. Many, many successful big league starters never had a single appearance out of the ‘pen.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jul 22, 2008 5:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

um, no

starting every 5 days at memphis doing what he is going to be doing for his entire career (starting) is what is best. not bringing him up to pitch middle relief.

by lopey986 on Jul 22, 2008 1:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hahaha

That is hilarious guys.

Take a look at baseball history and modern managing and you will see that many teams make use of Earl Weavers standard practice of having pitching prospects perform an apprenticeship in the pen. Heck, in the past four seasons the Cards have seen both Wainwright and Danny Harren groomed in this manor. It is hardly a crazy idea. Rather it is a commonly used practice throughout baseball. The Twins use it a lot.

by JMedwick on Jul 22, 2008 2:04 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I agree, but

we’re also going to want to limit his innings this year, partly b/c of last year’s elbow tenderness and partly b/c he’s so young. It’s not unreasonable to allow him to get near his innings limit and pull him up and put him in the pen w/ the Cards for his last 20-25 innings. It will help the team, help get him adjusted to major league hitters, and limit the number of innings he throws.

by chuckb on Jul 22, 2008 2:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

announcers last night

mentioned a move the mets made a couple of years ago giving up kazmir when they were 4.5 out of first (it think). they make the move, giving up their best prospect, and then get swept by (i think) the braves (who were in first at the time) putting the mets 8.5 back and ending their season.

by UNCDubya on Jul 22, 2008 8:57 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

and all for

Victor Zambrano!

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Jul 22, 2008 5:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

A couple of things.....

First, I don’t think we get swept.

Second, even if we did, if the Cubs don’t do well this weekend, our position in the standings wouldn’t be all that different then it was heading into the series.

Thirdly, do we really have any parts to sell? Lohse, I guess. I can’t think of anything else. Nobody is going to want Kennedy/Iz/Izzy/Franklin. Maybe Springer, but I’d guess he has a no trade clause, and wouldn’t want to leave anyways.

by SoonerfanTU on Jul 22, 2008 9:24 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

gosh I think we could get paid for Lohse though...

I’d be curious to hear what people think we could get for him…

by duncans_army on Jul 22, 2008 10:01 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

we won't trade Lohse unless we are totally out of it

and that’s not going to happen before the trade deadline

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:11 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Depends on what the cubs do.

We could get swept and only be 2 1/2 games behind the cubs.

by Tackle Box on Jul 22, 2008 11:33 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It takes two to tango

I often have to remind myself that both the supply-side and the demand-side have to cooperate so that a deal could be done. I think many times, we tend to blame the organization for not being willing to get someone. But the reality may be that the asking price is too high. Maybe some will disagree with me seeing that Durham’s price was not that much (But, I think RP is a greater need than 2B). Sometimes the sellers become more desperate near the deadline. Let’s hope that the asking price for RP’s drop near the deadline.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Jul 22, 2008 2:52 AM EDT   0 recs

That's the same argument people make when they complain about players

How many times do you hear someone say, “He’s paid to hold a lead!” or “He’s paid to get a hit”, well there’s two sides to that coin as well. There are other paid players attempting to stop our paid players from proforming just like there’s another gm trying to improve his team like our gm is trying to improve our team.

by Tackle Box on Jul 22, 2008 11:36 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

remember...

... when Carp and Waino come back, that means that two starters go to the pen. if we are thinking rationally, those two starters will be the Thompson/Boggs/Garcia spot and Wellemeyer.

Welly’s arm is already fraying out, and we’ve got him under control past this year. move him to the pen where we he could provide another power arm and also protect his future. he won’t cost us much in arby next year as well. if our 6-9 inning relief corp ends up being Franklin/Springer/Welly/McClellan (INPO) with Villone mixed in for situational spots, that could be fairly effective. assuming that Carp and Waino can take their respective turns for the rest of the year, this seems feasible.

if we can upgrade with a late-inning LOOGY, then great. if not, we’ll be improving our pen when we improve our rotation. even if Loop or Piniero ends up in the pen instead of Welly we’ll be better off than we are now.

we just have to tread water for the next two weeks. if we can do that, then we’ll have a chance. if we can’t… weren’t we playing for ‘09 anyway?

i’m with Sheehan: don’t give up anything valuable this year. playoffs in ‘08 would be icing, but the cake is still baking. ‘09 and ‘10 are our best chances at a title.

by kindred on Jul 22, 2008 3:15 AM EDT   0 recs

I think Boggs goes to Memphis

and Looper goes to the pen … assuming Wellemeyer’s healthy. Wellemeyer only goes to the pen if they’re worried about the number of innings they’re putting on his arm.

by chuckb on Jul 22, 2008 7:46 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I think this is exactly right

Looper does not want to go to the pen, for understandable reasons. Wellemeyer not only would go, he would understand the rationale and wouldn’t be hung up thinking his career as a starter was over. The problem is that the trade deadline will pass before Carpenter gets back, most likely. This means they have to decide whether or not to go for a new closer now…and that trade has major ramifications for the whole pen, the team’s future payroll, etc. I’m not convinced they’re going to give the ball to Perez in the 9th inning this season. And I doubt Todd Wellemeyer will be the guy either—even if he could be.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 11:13 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I still think...

that Wellemeyer could be valuable as a closer for the Cardinals. I think that, unfortunately for him, he met up with Dave Duncan and the St. Louis Cardinals a little bit late in his career because over the last year he has become a pitcher rather than a thrower. I got to see him pitch in KC 40 or so times in two seasons (not necessarily in person, but I watched many of the games because I did not yet have the MLB extra innings package) and he has really improved a TON. Remember, he only started about half of the time for the Cardinals last season when he arrived in STL and did alright.

As a reliever with the Cardinals, he threw 14 1/3 innings in 9 different relief outings (without a defined role). In those 14 1/3 innings, he gave up only 8 hits and walked 6 (his WHIP was .977); struck out 15 (his K/9 was 9.42); and allowed 2 earned runs (his ERA was 1.26). I would love a closer with those stats.

Yes, in one outing he walked 3 (but pitched three innings). Yes, in one outing he walked 2 and gave up a hit in 2/3 of an inning…but he gave up 2 unearned runs and that is it. The inning could have been over before anything ever happened to the score of the game.

All in all, he threw 199 pitches as a reliever for the Cardinals and threw 136 strikes. That is 68.3% strikes thrown. I think that he could be a dynamite closer.

by stlfan on Jul 22, 2008 11:36 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

+1

the more i think about it, the more it makes some sense to try wellemeyer as the the closer if he is moved to the pen.

....my quick smells like french toast...

by mstreeter06 on Jul 22, 2008 12:59 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs