The Waiting is the hardest part
by chuckb on Jul 22, 2008 1:27 AM EDT
in News
407 comments
The key part of Sheehan’s article that dealt w/ the Cardinals made the point that the team’s time horizon for winning really begins next year. Don’t misinterpret this as me giving up on this year – I’m not. It took awhile for me to get used to the idea that the team would be competitive this year but now that I’m on board, I’m staying there and I think the Cards will be in it ‘til the end. Sheehan says:
That part of Sheehan’s article is somewhat uninspiring. I mean, it’s just not that bold a statement to say that the Cards shouldn’t sacrifice the future for a chance at winning today. However, the next sentence says that "help isn’t coming" and implies that LaRussa isn’t going to like the fact that Mozeliak isn’t going to trade for veteran help. If Mo does decide to stand pat and go w/ what we’ve got, there’s little doubt that Tony will be unhappy. He’s already been outspoken about the Cards’ need to acquire someone following the Brewers’ and Cubs’ major acquisitions a week and a half ago.
Sheehan makes the prediction that Mo will stand pat at the trade deadline or, at least, will make a marginal addition to the roster rather than the big splash LaRussa seems to favor. It’s interesting that he would make such a prediction considering the fact that Mozeliak has no real track record that offers any sort of predictive value. He’s never been the GM of a contending team at the trade deadline. Even in the offseason, most saw the Cards as Sheehan does – as playing for 2009 – and Mozeliak’s decisions this offseason seem to indicate that that was his view as well. Maybe that’s enough to give Sheehan enough insight to feel comfortable predicting that Mo will do little over the next 10 days.
If Sheehan’s right, of course, that means no Brian Fuentes, no Matt Holliday, Jason Bay or Xavier Nady. Don’t count on Huston Street or Justin Duchscherer or probably even Jarrod Washburn. Ray Durham’s now off the market but we won’t be seeing Grudzielanek return to St. Louis if Sheehan’s right. These names, save Washburn, would all come w/ a fairly hefty price tag and Sheehan’s right when he says that "the choice not to get that help is the right long-term decision."
Still, I really think that the Cards will need a little help in order to remain ahead of the Brewers down the stretch. LaRussa feels the team needs a big hitter rather than a pitcher whereas I would argue that, if anything, the pitching staff needs help. The bullpen problems have been discussed ad-nauseum and they, once again, showed up last night. This time, it was our current "closer" (as opposed to last year’s closer or one of our lefties) who didn’t get it done. We’ve had 2 consistent arms in the pen – Kyle McClellan and Russ Springer. It’s difficult to say whether or not McClellan’s going to hold up as he’s only once in his professional career thrown more than 59.2 IP (128 in 2004) and he’s already at 54 this year. Still, we’re going to have to count on him to have any chance down the stretch. Is there any wonder that Sheehan also says that the NL Central’s "Pitcher to Watch" is Chris Perez. He was recently demoted to Memphis to work on his slider but he won’t be there long.
As the bullpen’s problems have gotten most of the attention, particularly of late, little has been said about the starting rotation. Pineiro threw 6 IP last year though he didn’t pitch particularly well. Though the starters are averaging 5.86 innings per start – 3rd in the NL, they haven’t had a starter get an out in the 8th inning since June 27, when Pineiro went 7.2 IP against the Royals. He gave up 7 ER in that game. That said, while Lohse (tonight’s starter) has been extremely good, the other starters have become 5-6 inning guys – at the most. If the pen’s not going to be any better, we’ll need to get more from Looper, Pineiro, et al. Unfortunately, their shakiness means we need to have a stronger pen. It’s the worst of all Catch-22s.
The one statement from Sheehan’s column that I take issue with is where he says that "help isn’t coming." I’m hoping he’s wrong. The team clearly needs Wainwright back in the rotation. First of all, he’ll settle that 5th spot that has seen Parisi, Boggs, Garcia take turns in the rotation. It appears likely that Brad Thompson will pitch in that spot Thursday opposite Sheets. But Wainwright’s return will allow him to eat more innings than the aforementioned replacements have, thus taking some of the burden off the pen. It will reduce their workload and allow Tony to use the better ones more frequently and the other ones less frequently. In June and July, the pen has given up 154 hits, 68 walks, and 18 homers against 113 K’s in 141.1 IP. Here are the ERAs for the rotation and the pen – comparing the first 2 months w/ the most recent month and a half:
| April/May | June/July | |
|---|---|---|
| Rotation | 4.06 | 4.60 |
| Bullpen | 4.00 | 4.46 |
Wainwright’s last start before going on the DL was June 7. Both the rotation have been considerably worse since he’s been on the DL and the team will almost certainly improve when he returns.
With any luck, Carpenter’s return will improve the team as well and, as I said earlier, Chris Perez won’t remain at Memphis forever. The point is that, even w/o Mo trading for anyone, the pitching staff should benefit by the "additions" of Wainwright, Carpenter, and Perez.
Now, you’ve by now all realized that I’m working under 2 pretty heavy assumptions: first – that Carpenter will return healthy and able to help the team. There’s a gamble w/ any "addition" and I can’t imagine that Carpenter won’t pitch at least as well as most of the pitchers we might add via trade. The second assumption is that Wellemeyer’s elbow is OK and he’ll finish the season as a healthy member of the rotation. That would enable us to move either Looper or Pineiro to the pen. Even if we end up w/ EITHER Carpenter OR Wellemeyer, the simple addition of Adam Wainwright adds more to the team than anything Mo could feasibly do at the trade deadline, and it will cost us nothing in 2009.
So, Cards’ fans: Be not afraid! Help is on the way in the form of Wainwright, (hopefully) Carpenter, and Perez. I’m still not opposed to adding a lesser-known (and less costly in terms of prospects!) lefty for the pen to replace Randy Flores. I’m thinking maybe Will Ohman or John Grabow . Ohman’s clearly better than Grabow but either are better than Flores and would provide some relief w/o bankrupting our future. Meanwhile, our present best starter, Kyle Lohse, goes tonight. He’s been terrific and has thrown 7 innings in each of the last 4 starts. He’s also been fantastic at home this year – 2.79 ERA. With Sabathia and Sheets going in the next 2 games, we’ll need to win this one.
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Sheehan
most likely means help isn’t on the way from outside the organization…and i hope the hell he’s right.
if they add anyone, it needs to be a Mahay from KC or one of the Pirates lefties…someone of that ilk. No need to make a deal for someone like Fuentes, Holliday, Bay or Nady.
the only guy i wouldn’t mind them making a play at…Huston Street. pretty sure he is still under contract for 2 or 3 more years and is still only, what, 24 or 25. if it’d take Rasmus then no thanks…but Anderson and a few marginal prospects? i’d probably do it.
by lopey986 on Jul 22, 2008 1:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mahay has an LOB% of nearly 85
he’s not pitching any better than he has in the past three years when he was a back of the pen option. He may be an upgrade but his value isn’t terribly high especially w/ a multiyear contract.
by azruavatar on Jul 22, 2008 8:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His walks and homers
are down, which helps with the old LOB numbers.
by haltz on Jul 22, 2008 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not that the HR numbers
are necessarily sustainable (or that he’s a 1.8 ERA guy), but he is pitching better.
by haltz on Jul 22, 2008 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the HR rate looks fluky
and I’m not saying he hasn’t pitched well. Even if he pitches like he has over the previous two seasons he’s probably an upgrade but I’m wary of trading for relievers.
by azruavatar on Jul 22, 2008 9:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know if it will happen
but the move to make now is obviously to get some kind of closer. The cardiac twins (Franklin & Izzy) are NOT getting the job done and are thowing meatballs up there almost every outing now. If we have any hopes to make the playoffs…(other than trying to figure out how to hit the Cubs starters)..we need a better closer than can finish off a close lead in the 9th. Forget the “impact bat”, 5th starter or 2nd baseman…a closer is what this team needs badly.
Huston Street & George Sherrill are two guys that might be up for grabs but both will be costly and frankly Street hasn’t been lights out this season…so he would be a HUGE gamble…but at this point I am willing to take a chance to have anybody with a little experience in there other than Franklin & Izzy.
by KYCards on Jul 22, 2008 1:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
make Reyes the closer
i’m serious.
think about it
at least until Perez is ready.
war late night posts on VEB.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jul 22, 2008 3:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He can't be any worse than the cardiac twins
but there’s a better chance Big Bird will be our closer rather than Reyes with Tony & Dunc making the calls.
by KYCards on Jul 22, 2008 3:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Closer
I think I’ve watched a different Anthony Reyes then some, because there is no way I trust that guy to protect a lead in the ninth inning. My two cents (and i’m sure i’m not the first to suggest) is IF Carpenter can make it back this year they use him as closer. Give him some inning, limit his use this soon after Tommy John.
by billymartin on Jul 22, 2008 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wasn't Billy Martin
the quirky guitarist of Faith No More in the early 90’s?
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh...
that kinda came From Out Of Nowhere
also, wikipedia says there was a guitarist name jim martin, and a bassist named billy gould… i honestly don’t know faith no more very well.
by mattybobo on Jul 22, 2008 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ah
Jim Martin was the correct name. I was combining him and Billy Gould into one supermusician!
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you want to check them out
their best album is Angel Dust
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like king for a day...
...fool for a lifetime a lot too. diggin’ the grave is perhaps my favorite fnm song.
were you the one who mentioned the melvins the other day? if so, don’t miss their new album, its their best since stoner witch.
by adiueordie on Jul 22, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
I was. I like it pretty well, I always check out all their stuff. I kinda liked H.A.T. better though
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is...
they clearly have some people they can and should move. Maybe they won’t get much for them, but I have to think anything would be better than say, Flores.
Anderson, for instance, has no future with the team, barring a career ending injury to Yadi.
Reyes should have been moved years ago, but should be moved before his value is any lower (it’s not going to go up).
Duncan too should be looked at. I like Duncan, but Rasmus has to start next year. An OFer needs to go.
Perez also probably should go. He’s never going to be the closer under TLR/Duncan, IMHO.
I don’t think they could get much for Duncan or Reyes, but even a replacement level middle reliever would be helpful at this point, I’d think. Anderson and Perez should fetch someone decent, as they should be quality players eventually (just not here)
by DiscoJer on Jul 22, 2008 1:58 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
perez will never be the closer?
what evidence do you have to back that up? a month of him pitching at the big league level? of course he isn’t the closer right now, he is still wild and shouldn’t be forced into a pressure packed situation at this stage in his career.
honestly, the best move we can make at closer is Kyle McClellan. he has been pretty damn solid this year and i’d like to see him given the chance.
as for outside prospects, bring in a guy like Mahay from KC. i can’t imagine he’d cost that much.
if they are going to panic and make a big trade…steer clear of sherrill and fuentes. i wouldn’t mind making a play for street…maybe a package involving Anderson might work. kurt suzuki isn’t that great of a catcher and they don’t really have anyone else in the pipeline.
as far as reyes, he has no value at all at this point, he is just a throw in for any trade. i don’t know why everyone thinks we are going to get anyone good for him, he sucks.
by lopey986 on Jul 22, 2008 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McCellan...
McClellan is the right move, but I doubt La Russa would do it. What are the chances Wainwright might end up there, as part of the “rehab” process and suddenly “just happen” to stay there for the season/postseason?
That probably won’t happen either, but it wouldnt be the first reliever/starter switch for him or a big change in La Russa and Duncans way of doing things. You’re right though, McClellan (no D on the end “nomah”) is the best move right now.
Being Aaron Miles has to be so much more fun than being you...
by cardschinmusic on Jul 22, 2008 5:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Regarding Yadi
“Anderson, for instance, has no future with the team, barring a career ending injury to Yadi.”
Like post-concussion syndrome? Yadi could be one concussion away from the end of his career. Catchers that can hit are hard to find and trading Anderson (or Rasmus) would be very foolish in my opinion.
by CURVEBALL on Jul 22, 2008 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
There’s no rule that says you can’t have two catchers splitting time; a 60/40 split with Yadi and Anderson (down the road) could have the added benefit of having both catchers fresh and hitting at the end of the year…
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on Jul 22, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Carp and Wainwright come back strong
Then I think it would be perfect to have a 60/40 split. From what I have read and heard, Adam and Chris have a pretty good grasp of how to come out and pitch a ballgame. They may not need such a leader/pitch caller behind the plate. Let Yadi work the plate with the glutton of youngsters that could be coming up and let Anderson work with the veteran pitchers on the staff. I like it. It would keep the wear and tear from getting to Molina and it would develop a youngster. If we can teach either of them to play a little 3rd base, that might be a position in which they could play 2-3 times a year each, to give Glaus and/or others a rest…if we wanted their bat in the lineup more.
by stlfan on Jul 22, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, man, if Bryan Anderson
could play one or even two other positions, TLR would fall in love with him. Unfortunately from what I heard that’s unlikely.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 22, 2008 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unfortunately
That’s what I have heard as well. But they both might be able to pitch in a few times at 1B or 3B to rest other stars…or just to get their bat in the lineup (if they continue to hit that well.)
by stlfan on Jul 22, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's what I want
60/40 playing time between Anderson and Yadi in the coming years
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most top hitting catching prospects are over-rated
Anderson should be the most trade-able cardinal prospect.
by JMedwick on Jul 22, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not imo
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you in my head Houston?
That’s two days in a row I come on here to post something and you’ve got your story already up that is pretty much what I wanted to say.
Basically, my question was…
If the Cardinals get swept by the Brewers, do they become sellers?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 2:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I kind of hope not
since we have quite a few more games left with the Cubs… that getting the wild card won’t be too far of a stretch. But the the million dollar question about that is…. can we beat the Cubs at Wrigley and find a way to score some runs off their starters??? I have my doubts. But if we get swept by the Brewers AND Mo fails to help the team’s bullpen then I think the morale of the team will start to really fall and it could snowball…
by KYCards on Jul 22, 2008 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cards should be sellers, but
Unless they fall flat and loose 7 or 8 out of the next ten games with the Brewers, Mets and Braves the Cards won’t be sellers. (BTW, if the Cards do get walloped and fall back the first person I trade is Lohse followed by Franklin and some combo of Duncan, Skip and Ludwick.)
With that in mind, staying the course and seeing whether additions to the rotation, Carp and Wainwright, don’t do much to stabilize the bullpen by allowing the starters to go longer and the Cards to better deploy their relievers. Most importantly, if the Cards are going to loose games because the pen implodes, have the kids take the beatings and find out what you have with players like Worrell, Perez, and Garcia (as the LOOGY).
by JMedwick on Jul 22, 2008 8:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't understand
The Cards should currently be sellers even though they are tied for first for the wild card?
by saladdays on Jul 22, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes!
Because this year has been a mirage.
The Cards have real needs that will be exposed come 2009:
The team needs an offensive upgrade at one of the two middle infield postions.
The outfield of Ankiel, Ludwick and Skip are enjoying career years. While I think Ankiel’s performance is sustainable, if the Cards count on Ludwick and Skip to keep it up in 2009, the team will be sorely disappointed.
If the outfield regresses, the Cards will once again be in need of a middle of the order hitter to protect Albert, someone to pair with Glaus in the 4 or 5 spot and someone to stick with Ankiel and Rasmus in the outfield.
Given the bareness of the free agent market, the best method for addressing these issues is through trade. By not trying to move the likes of Ludwick, Skip and others, the Cards will fail to take advantage of this teams overachieving. The idea is to buy low and sell high. That means selling not buying to support a flawed team.
I understand my view is an extreme one. Therefore, the best method is the middle course, don’t make any moves at the trade deadline. Don’t waste prospects trying to push a flawed team over the hump and don’t sink the ship before Wainwright and Carp come back.
by JMedwick on Jul 22, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought the whole idea of this post
was that should we be sellers if we get swept by the Brewers, not right now.
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also
why do you think we’ll be relying on Skip and Ludwick next year? ever hear of anyone with the initials C.R.?
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Skip will be a bench player next year
with, probably, the starters being Rasmus, Ankiel and Ludwick.
by Tackle Box on Jul 22, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yup
unless Luddy gets traded or something
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Two points;
1. I think it will take a lot more than just a sweep by the Brewers to make the Cards sellers. As I said before, unless the Cards drop 7 or 8 out of the next 10 games, this team will stand pat or buy.
2. While Rasmus is clearly part of the team’s future, he is not and will not be a middle of the order hitter and is not a middle infielder. If Ludwick regresses, (and I think he will) the Cards will need someone to hit in the middle of the lineup with Glaus and Pujols. Rasmus, for all of his potential greatness, is not that player. Ludwick should be a trading chip. Kent Bottenfield in 1999.
by JMedwick on Jul 22, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last season
the Cardinals SWEPT the Brewers, decided to be buyers instead of sellers and DIDN’T trade away Isringhausen…a move that is still haunting us.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isringhausen
wouldn’t agree to a trade, too.
by liam on Jul 22, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From a psycholocial perspective
They have come to style themselves contenders because they have been within a few games of a playoff spot all season. On the eve of getting your top two starters back and even after being swept by the team you are fighting with for a playoff spot being at a maximum of 2 games out of the wild card race, the Cards won’t decide to cut bait. It is a lot easier to convince yourself that the team is in contention, particularly with the wild card, than it is to throw in the towel.
by JMedwick on Jul 22, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
garcia
is not a loogy, that kid is going to be a starter down the road and they don’t need to go in and start messing with him. if he isn’t starting at the big club he needs to be starting in memphis and taking his turn every 5th game.
by lopey986 on Jul 22, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bah!
That’s foolish. Garcia would be best off like most young starter, spending a year in the pen learning to throw strikes in tight situations. For most pitchers coming up, that is one of the biggest humps to overcome. Garcia’s issue is control and walking people. Working out of the pen would be a good chance to see if he can learn to throw strikes.
by JMedwick on Jul 22, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does that mean
that our best hitting prospects should sit on the bench and learn by pinch-hitting in tight situations before they get a chance to be a regular?
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 22, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cmon
pitching and hitting are totally different. not a good comparison. but I see what you are getting at…
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very different things.
With LaRussa cycling through his pen, Garcia would have ample opportunity to pitch. A relief pitcher in a highly used pen gets a lot more action than a bench outfielder. If Garcia was going to just come up and ride the pine, then it would be a bad idea. But the Cards have a clear need for another lefty out of the pen and a manager who rapidly burns through relief pitchers.
by JMedwick on Jul 22, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While I agree
that hitting and pitching are different, you are still saying that a guy who has been a starter his whole life should have to learn a new skill (i.e. warming up quickly) at the big league level.
I do think there is some merit to letting a guy get his feet wet in the pen, but it is far from the only way to do it and it is not the most common way to do it. Many, many successful big league starters never had a single appearance out of the ‘pen.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 22, 2008 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
um, no
starting every 5 days at memphis doing what he is going to be doing for his entire career (starting) is what is best. not bringing him up to pitch middle relief.
by lopey986 on Jul 22, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hahaha
That is hilarious guys.
Take a look at baseball history and modern managing and you will see that many teams make use of Earl Weavers standard practice of having pitching prospects perform an apprenticeship in the pen. Heck, in the past four seasons the Cards have seen both Wainwright and Danny Harren groomed in this manor. It is hardly a crazy idea. Rather it is a commonly used practice throughout baseball. The Twins use it a lot.
by JMedwick on Jul 22, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So to does
Johan Santana and Chad Billingsly
by JMedwick on Jul 22, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Where is the list of players that never pitched in the pen?
Probably a longer list, huh?
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 22, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree, but
we’re also going to want to limit his innings this year, partly b/c of last year’s elbow tenderness and partly b/c he’s so young. It’s not unreasonable to allow him to get near his innings limit and pull him up and put him in the pen w/ the Cards for his last 20-25 innings. It will help the team, help get him adjusted to major league hitters, and limit the number of innings he throws.
by chuckb on Jul 22, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
announcers last night
mentioned a move the mets made a couple of years ago giving up kazmir when they were 4.5 out of first (it think). they make the move, giving up their best prospect, and then get swept by (i think) the braves (who were in first at the time) putting the mets 8.5 back and ending their season.
by UNCDubya on Jul 22, 2008 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and all for
Victor Zambrano!
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jul 22, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A couple of things.....
First, I don’t think we get swept.
Second, even if we did, if the Cubs don’t do well this weekend, our position in the standings wouldn’t be all that different then it was heading into the series.
Thirdly, do we really have any parts to sell? Lohse, I guess. I can’t think of anything else. Nobody is going to want Kennedy/Iz/Izzy/Franklin. Maybe Springer, but I’d guess he has a no trade clause, and wouldn’t want to leave anyways.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 22, 2008 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gosh I think we could get paid for Lohse though...
I’d be curious to hear what people think we could get for him…
by duncans_army on Jul 22, 2008 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we won't trade Lohse unless we are totally out of it
and that’s not going to happen before the trade deadline
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Depends on what the cubs do.
We could get swept and only be 2 1/2 games behind the cubs.
by Tackle Box on Jul 22, 2008 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It takes two to tango
I often have to remind myself that both the supply-side and the demand-side have to cooperate so that a deal could be done. I think many times, we tend to blame the organization for not being willing to get someone. But the reality may be that the asking price is too high. Maybe some will disagree with me seeing that Durham’s price was not that much (But, I think RP is a greater need than 2B). Sometimes the sellers become more desperate near the deadline. Let’s hope that the asking price for RP’s drop near the deadline.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Jul 22, 2008 2:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's the same argument people make when they complain about players
How many times do you hear someone say, “He’s paid to hold a lead!” or “He’s paid to get a hit”, well there’s two sides to that coin as well. There are other paid players attempting to stop our paid players from proforming just like there’s another gm trying to improve his team like our gm is trying to improve our team.
by Tackle Box on Jul 22, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
remember...
... when Carp and Waino come back, that means that two starters go to the pen. if we are thinking rationally, those two starters will be the Thompson/Boggs/Garcia spot and Wellemeyer.
Welly’s arm is already fraying out, and we’ve got him under control past this year. move him to the pen where we he could provide another power arm and also protect his future. he won’t cost us much in arby next year as well. if our 6-9 inning relief corp ends up being Franklin/Springer/Welly/McClellan (INPO) with Villone mixed in for situational spots, that could be fairly effective. assuming that Carp and Waino can take their respective turns for the rest of the year, this seems feasible.
if we can upgrade with a late-inning LOOGY, then great. if not, we’ll be improving our pen when we improve our rotation. even if Loop or Piniero ends up in the pen instead of Welly we’ll be better off than we are now.
we just have to tread water for the next two weeks. if we can do that, then we’ll have a chance. if we can’t… weren’t we playing for ‘09 anyway?
i’m with Sheehan: don’t give up anything valuable this year. playoffs in ‘08 would be icing, but the cake is still baking. ‘09 and ‘10 are our best chances at a title.
by kindred on Jul 22, 2008 3:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Boggs goes to Memphis
and Looper goes to the pen … assuming Wellemeyer’s healthy. Wellemeyer only goes to the pen if they’re worried about the number of innings they’re putting on his arm.
by chuckb on Jul 22, 2008 7:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this is exactly right
Looper does not want to go to the pen, for understandable reasons. Wellemeyer not only would go, he would understand the rationale and wouldn’t be hung up thinking his career as a starter was over. The problem is that the trade deadline will pass before Carpenter gets back, most likely. This means they have to decide whether or not to go for a new closer now…and that trade has major ramifications for the whole pen, the team’s future payroll, etc. I’m not convinced they’re going to give the ball to Perez in the 9th inning this season. And I doubt Todd Wellemeyer will be the guy either—even if he could be.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still think...
that Wellemeyer could be valuable as a closer for the Cardinals. I think that, unfortunately for him, he met up with Dave Duncan and the St. Louis Cardinals a little bit late in his career because over the last year he has become a pitcher rather than a thrower. I got to see him pitch in KC 40 or so times in two seasons (not necessarily in person, but I watched many of the games because I did not yet have the MLB extra innings package) and he has really improved a TON. Remember, he only started about half of the time for the Cardinals last season when he arrived in STL and did alright.
As a reliever with the Cardinals, he threw 14 1/3 innings in 9 different relief outings (without a defined role). In those 14 1/3 innings, he gave up only 8 hits and walked 6 (his WHIP was .977); struck out 15 (his K/9 was 9.42); and allowed 2 earned runs (his ERA was 1.26). I would love a closer with those stats.
Yes, in one outing he walked 3 (but pitched three innings). Yes, in one outing he walked 2 and gave up a hit in 2/3 of an inning…but he gave up 2 unearned runs and that is it. The inning could have been over before anything ever happened to the score of the game.
All in all, he threw 199 pitches as a reliever for the Cardinals and threw 136 strikes. That is 68.3% strikes thrown. I think that he could be a dynamite closer.
by stlfan on Jul 22, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
the more i think about it, the more it makes some sense to try wellemeyer as the the closer if he is moved to the pen.
....my quick smells like french toast...
by mstreeter06 on Jul 22, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I too think that Welley is our best option for closer
especially if Wainer and Carp are back and effective
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh, and by the way...
... while we’re all bitching about the bullpen, let’s remember that our best hitter had a chance to win the game in the bottom of the 9th and failed. and let’s also remember that our entire offense totaled one single hit from innings 3-8.
Franklin was horrible last night, but if we’d put up a decent effort against a mediocre pitcher then it wouldn’t’ve come to that. Piniero had a good start, and Jiminez and Villone were pretty damn good again. the offense let the team down last night more than the pitching did.
by kindred on Jul 22, 2008 3:34 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yeah I guess you could look at it that way
BUT the fact is the offense DID tie it up in the bottom of the 9th. It was Franklin’s job to make sure it stayed tied but he blew it. If that was a rare ocasion for him that would be one thing…but Franklin & Izzy and the rest of the pen is responsible for 21 losses now and are blowing games on a regular pace. Sorry man but this loss is on the bullpen yet again. Our bullpen stinks and SOMETHING needs to be done about it yesterday/today/soon….but yet they are still using a broken clock instead of getting it repaired.
by KYCards on Jul 22, 2008 3:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was Franklin's job?
Look, I’m not going to go out and defend Ryan Franklin’s performance, I just get tired of that lame argument. So, are you saying the Brewers don’t have a job to win the game as well?
by Tackle Box on Jul 22, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
isn't that what the game is all about?
The entire game is a series of battles between guys trying to do their jobs.
For almost every “job” done, there is a corresponding “job” failed. An exception to this would be errors, which are failures on both parts.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on Jul 22, 2008 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally agree
we had chances in the first two innings to put the game away.
And if AP get a hit in the 9th, we’re all talking today about how great Pineiro battled, and the pen held on to give us the opportunity to win.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2
by gocards62 on Jul 22, 2008 8:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
how much higher do you want his average to be?
jeesh
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree
he put a good swing on the ball, just didn’t get enough of it.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 22, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ok, sure, but let's not turn this into a
“we need hitters” argument. Please.
by sdrone on Jul 22, 2008 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn that Pujols...
he is such a choker! He has to fail AT LEAST 60% of the time. How dare he not get on-base one time in July at a game that really wont have an effect on the final standings, pathetic. We need to look at moving him for a LOOGY!!!
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Jul 22, 2008 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a choker but
Has anyone noticed Pujols’s almost complete power outage over the last few weeks? When was his last homer anyway? The balls that used to soar out seem to be dying in outfielders’ gloves far short of the wall. As far as power is concerned, he’s beginning to remind me of Rolen last year. I wonder if anything’s wrong.
by Mike G on Jul 22, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder also Mike G
and was on the verge of saying the same thing, but didn’t want to start an argument, but since you said it, I’ll agree and take some of the heat off you.
Also, and by the way, I wondered last winter why the Cards signed 35 year old John Wadsin and it could be for a situation like now. He has been hot and cold at Memphis this year and last night he threw 7 plus innings with 2 hits and struck out 11. He might be worth looking at….lightning in a bottle you know.
by ridgesee on Jul 22, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't look now
but Troy Glaus is right on his ass in regards to career homers.
by Tackle Box on Jul 22, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Albert has been hitting laser beams!!!!! He just is not elevating the balls he hits hard
Are you crazy?
by ICbirdfan on Jul 22, 2008 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yup, thats the problem
his swing looks great, he’s just missing it. I’ve probalby counted almost 10 times in the past couple days of balls that would have easily been homers if he’d of gotten better contact. It’s probably more of a bad luck thing right now than anything.
At least he isn’t popping up to the second baseman everytime.
by Tackle Box on Jul 22, 2008 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last Homer
July 4th. 13 game drought.
by Cardinal70 on Jul 22, 2008 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Usually
players have a drought getting to the milestone accomplishment then go on a tear. (Isn’t that the received wisdom?) Pujols took a little time getting to 300 HR, but getting to 301 seems to be taking forever. Completely expect him to go on a huge power streak, starting tonight.
by liam on Jul 22, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I’d like to see that. So; HEAR, HEAR!
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 22, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no one's pitching him any meatballs
so there ya go, no home runs
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you're telling me
that he has seen zero meatballs in 13 games? I’m not buying it.
Look, there’s a good bit of chance in every swing, so you would expect hot and cold streaks. It’s natural. I wouldn’t be surprised if Pujols has the Cardinals HR lead again before the season is over. Yup, you heard it here first folks!
"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."
by BigMOman on Jul 22, 2008 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
he’s probably just on a home run slump. he has been for a while, since it took him a while to get that 300th shot. I still think it’s just as much the pitcher’s not giving him anything to hit out more than anything though.
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Didn't Villone walk his only batter?
If that’s good, I’d hate to see what bad would be….
"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley
by TurdFerguson on Jul 22, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
he got an F last night
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tony
however, gets an B+ because he didn’t leave him in there to face the right handed batter that was coming up next, something he’s done far too often this season.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 22, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
that was evidence that Tony finally figured out what he is: LOOGY
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree to a point
but I really like the double contraction!
“wouldn’t’ve”
nice.
by Tackle Box on Jul 22, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice work HTown, but i do have one issue
and its with this phrase,
So, Cards’ fans: Be not afraid! Help is on the way in the form of so & so pitchers & players
i’m so freaking sick & tired of hearing about players coming back from the DL to save our season. of course thats not your fault HTown. but for real, are we ever going to not be patiently waiting for star players to come off the DL and help the Cards win? when will this never ending streak of injured players supposedly coming back from the DL to save the Cards seasons end?
no other teams season & hopes hang in the balance omore so than the St. Louis Cardinals do when it comes to injured players. and i could not be any more sick of it if i tried.
good night now!
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jul 22, 2008 4:04 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, nothings a lock in this world last I looked around, but Carpenter looks to be pretty solid and at least once HC commented on his and Wainwrights return being based on “pretty heavy assumption(s)!” You spent a lot of time apologizing for him for something he didnt say.
I said in the main thread yesterday that them returning would take weight off the pen and HC agreed so kindly today and also added that it would allow two now healthy starters to go back to the pen, which would help shore up some of the weaknesses there, IF it happens. I think a big part of the problem will lie in how effective they can be in a short time frame, not whether or not they coming back. So if thats part of what your thinking, I agree.
There will be some real help coming in Sept. for a change, the pen should benefit from that and I agree we could swing a middleman trade for much less than the likes of Rasmus. Salary dumps are on the horizon as well as the deadline.
I hope Sheehan and HC are both correct in pointing to the future as the direcion to go in spite of TLRs pushing on MO.
Being Aaron Miles has to be so much more fun than being you...
by cardschinmusic on Jul 22, 2008 5:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My point was
that we can’t add anything near as good as Carpenter and Wainwright on the trade market. The best additions we can possibly make are through their return from injury. So, while the Cubs will say they added Harden, and the Brewers will say they added Sabathia, we will have (hopefully) been able to add Wainwright AND Carpenter. I’m still uncertain about how much Carp’s going to be able to help, but if he can help us, along w/ Wainwright and Perez in the pen, it’ll be a bigger boost than anything we can add via trade.
by chuckb on Jul 22, 2008 7:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
No one available on the trade market is as good as Wainer or Carp COULD be. Adding Wainwright is an immediate upgrade, anything Carpenter brings to the mix is gravy.
by cardsgirl95 on Jul 22, 2008 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, there is Burnett
You can argue about how good he could be, but he’s pretty darn good—definitely a 2/3 in our rotation.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i disagree
if carp and wainer pitch to form, and with lohse being on fire he would end up a 4
"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda" - Rev. Jerry Falwell
by elirock83 on Jul 22, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if either Wainwright OR Carpenter are even 90% of their usual selves
we are going to get a lift
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting post at an As blog. Relates nicely to this thread
http://www.athleticsnation.com/2008/7/20/575122/the-final-sell-off-how-the
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Jul 22, 2008 7:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The upshot is the writer thinks the Cards should trade Rasmus for a host of As. I think it an abysmal idea from the Cards' standpoint.
I’m mildly hopeful for this year; I’m excited about next. Others??
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Jul 22, 2008 7:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read it yesterday.
No thanks. An intriguing idea, but the A’s can keep their quantity, we will keep our quality (Rasmus).
by cardsgirl95 on Jul 22, 2008 8:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
Nothing they have, to me, is worth giving up the best hitting prospect left in all of the minor leagues.
Though, I would like to have the Duke; I think hed be great in a Cards uni.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 22, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
really? haven't seen that.
oh wait, yeah i have. its been mentioned in other threads ad naseum and there are two fanposts about it already…
by adiueordie on Jul 22, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why a lefty?
I know everybody wants to add a LOOGY, but I’m starting to think we should just go after the best “deal” for a good bullpen guy that is out there. If that guy happens to be a righty, so be it. Surely between Villone, Florex, and Kmac we can get some lefties out.
On another note, I’m not a big fan of having a lefty closer. Not sure why I feel so strongly about this, but I’d much prefer a righty. Not sure how many good, right handed, potential closer guys are out there and available, but that’d be my preference right now.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 22, 2008 8:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Flores really can't get anyone out
anymore. He comes in and walks the one guy he faces. That’s about it. He’s a joke.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wasn't it Villone
that walked the only guy he faced last night?
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, it was Flores who did the same on Saturday
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 22, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if anyone mentioned this, but
after the Royals were ridiculed for picking Tim Melville in the fourth round, he’s actually gonna sign with them.
by Phizzle on Jul 22, 2008 9:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I didn't realize they were ridiculed
Why were they? They got first-round talent (or maybe supplemental round talent) in the 4th. It was a great selection and it’s going to pay off. Good for them. I don’t know who would ridicule them for that.
by chuckb on Jul 22, 2008 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From what I heard
Melville was a lock to go to college, no matter who picked him. So maybe they weren’t ridiculed per se, but most here agreed that it probably wasn’t a great selection.
by Phizzle on Jul 22, 2008 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it would've been a great selection
for almost 100 selections before then.
by liam on Jul 22, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I heard Dayton Moore on the radio after the draft
say they were going to make a hell of a effort to sign him. If he actually does sign with them the Royals are looking at having badass draft.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 22, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Last night hurt
I don’t know if it was because I had the somewhat-rare opportunity to actually watch the game (it is easier to shrug off bullpen meltdowns when you are just reading about them on the internet,) but last night the problems on this team smacked me in the face and made me realize that this team is not likely headed for the postseason.
Up until last night I was fairly optimistic, and I felt like as long as Izzy was not prominently involved the bullpen could overcome its shortcomings. Last night disabused me of that notion. I know it is just one game and I shouldn’t over-react to one loss, but last night hurt me more than the extra-innings collapse against Pittsburgh a week or two ago.
Last night sucked.
by birdjam on Jul 22, 2008 9:12 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
national broadcast
it always hurts more when steve phillips is telling me about it.
by spencegrif on Jul 22, 2008 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha ha, true
Although I didn’t think Phillips was that bad last night – he actually offered some cogent analysis at times, particularly talking about his front-office experience with making trades.
by birdjam on Jul 22, 2008 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
last night did hurt
but it’s only game; plus the way this team has been operating, it might just piss them off enough to still win 2 outta the next 3
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cardinals have been a great story, as Kyle Lohse, Todd Wellemeyer, Ryan Franklin, and a host of journeymen hurlers have bought into the Dave Duncan plan and become effective starters in front of a good defense
When I read this I thought, “Does this person realize that Franklin a) blows whale ass and b) isn’t a starter?” Where can I get a gig parroting popular sentiment about baseball teams and not bothering to fact check?
“no one can catch the cubs, cards are over acheiving, sabbathia makes the brewers a lock for the postseason, blah, blah, blah. Now in Yankee news, Jorge Posada might have surgery and we’ll discuss the newest revision to ‘The Joba Rules v 2.0’ after Sean Salsbury calls John Clayton a pussy for 15 minutes”
Is there any value in hearing the same crap from Peter Gammons, Orel Hersheiser, Steve Phillips, BP, Sportscenter, et. al? Nice work if you can get it.
by PhillyRedbird on Jul 22, 2008 9:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I don't watch ESPN
unless there’s a game on and I don’t understand why people do watch espn and then bitch about everything they say. I see little value whatsoever in watching BP or Sportscenter so I don’t. There’s a lot of bad TV on and those 2 shows are foremost among them.
by chuckb on Jul 22, 2008 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't watch much either, but I used to.
Maybe I was just dumber 10 years ago, but I seem to recall thoroughly enjoying ESPN back in the late 90’s, when the Cards weren’t even good. Sports is a multi-multi-Billion dollar business and the absolute ineptitude of the on-air ‘talent’ and most commentary is startling. I don’t think it unreasonable to expect a little better.
by PhillyRedbird on Jul 22, 2008 9:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They got rid of all the good analysts
That’s why you aren’t finding it interesting anymore. Dave “Soup” Campbell used to be a regular on Baseball Tonight: he’s doing radio work now, but was a tremendous analyst. Buck Showalter also does a really good job, but he’s hardly ever on anymore. The only two guys they currently have that I like to listen to are Kurkjian and Gammons, and even Gammons is suspect at times anymore. (As we used to say at fantasy baseball drafts, if Gammons likes the guy, downgrade him 4-6 rounds in your mock draft as he’s due to probably suck. Proved true by the likes of Kris Benson, Ryan Rupe, Mike Maroth, Andy Marte, Zach Duke, etc.)
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 22, 2008 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That is so true
I’ve been burned by that many years now…
I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck
by bukowski on Jul 22, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hadn't seen this posted......
But the following article mentions the Pirates as being interested in Duncan and Reyes. I’d move them both for just about anything of interest that they might have.
http://www.timesonline.com/articles/2008/07/17/sports/pirates/doc488010257fdda415779793.txt
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 22, 2008 9:23 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
So the Cards are interested in Marte or Grabow,
& the Pirates like both Duncan and Reyes, but do they consider them “one top youngster and one solid prospect,” not to mention their best offer?
by Don Zero on Jul 22, 2008 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have been telling you all for days now the Pirates have
Three starters for five spots…..I do not know what they’d give you for Reyes, but I’d bet my first born they’d give you something. Look, at this point anyone that you can stick anywhere in the system for Reyes would be a good deal. Anyone. Reyes has on occasion been able to get ML hitters out-you can’t say that for the AA and AAA starters the Pirates have been forced to use lately. No he doesn’t fit your description, but he is a pitcher-a starting pitcher. They have nothing to lose-he’s exactly the kind of player they SHOULD be willing to take a chance on. Grabow for Reyes straight up. Bautista for Reyes straight up. Burnett for Reyes straight up-this one would be a good challenge trade for both players. The Pirates don’t really need these players and the Cardinals don’t want Reyes, so why even wait? Call Mr. Hunnington. Now.
Marte is going to require much more-and he should- he’s been pretty good for awhile. There’s a sticky contract situation with him too. I still think the Pirates should hold this one for ransom-they’ll get it from someone…
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 22, 2008 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cool
I hope this trade happens, Duncan and Reyes need to go to a different team for everyone’s sake
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe in a little
this trade could be cool, but i’d like to see anthony reyes fill in at closer for a while
hear me out, at times reyes has had good stuff, which is more than we can say for franklin and izzy this year. plus i still like duncan even though he has had a bad year.
by cardsrule15 on Jul 22, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think that's a bad idea
but I doubt it’ll happen, since it seems there’s some sort of feud going on with Reyes
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You can strike the word "doubt" from your comment
If Tony and Dave don’t trust his to start, let alone pitch out of the pen, there’s no way in hell they’d ever trust him to close.
by Tackle Box on Jul 22, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it will never happen in one billion years and a trillion different realities in an infinity of infinities
that better?
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
I would trade Duncan for a box of waffles, and Reyes for the maple syrup.
But I like Reyes – I just would like to see him succeed somewhere else.
I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck
by bukowski on Jul 22, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, milk and cookies or
Vodka and tonic
cake and ice cream
ketchup and french fries
bagel and cream cheese
salsa and chips
and a six pack of killian red….....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 22, 2008 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It irks me a bit...
the absolute unwavering certainty that people make predictions. To declare that a team 8 games under .500 on the road is, ”...the best team in the league, and all the trade acquisitions in the world by the teams chasing them aren’t going to change that.” seems a bit much for me.
The Cubs havnt built an insurmountable lead. They arn’t running away with the division. I happy to call them the favorite, and admit they have an outstanding team, but to assume two teams 2 games back in the standings are in no position to catch them is absurd.
I hope I never have to root for a team that looks past a team 2 games out to get a better view of a hypothetical pennet race in 2009. We don’t have to trade Rasmus (unless the Indians want to give us Grady Sizemore for him:) to try and compete this year. Hell the Cubs only gave up their 6th starter and 6/7 outfielders to get Old Dick Harden.
by billymartin on Jul 22, 2008 9:32 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
All True Statements
But lets factor in that the Cubs also haven’t had a .900+ OPS player for the majority of the season as well. If Soriano comes back and hits like he usually does in August and September and Harden stays heathy, they’re going to be awfully tough to catch.
You’re right, they haven’t won on the road much—but we play them at Wrigley more than we get them at Busch III the next two months, and they’ve been awfully tough to beat there the whole season. They probably have the second best bullpen in the NL, behind Philly, and would have to be a favorite to win nearly any series with Zambrano, Dempster, Harden, and Lilly in their rotation. If they win all of their three game series and split all of their four game series the rest of the way, the Cards would have to play at a .630 clip to catch them. That’s going to be awful tough to do for a team that loses every other game it either leads or has tied in the 7th inning.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 22, 2008 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're bullpen isn't nearly as good as people think it is
especially lately. Marmol is now the closer since Wood is having an issue with a blister. Granted, he should be back soon, but with him you really never know. Right now, their 8th inning guy is Bob Howry and/or Neal Cotts. Howry is almost guarnateed to give up a run every time he pitches. After that, they’re mediocre at best. Just recalled Scott Eyre as well.
The return of Wood helps, but they’ve had the same issue the Cards have had all year. Their starters don’t go deep enough on a regular-enough basis. At times, the pen gets way overexposed and that’s their major Achille’s Heel.
That and their relentless offesnse has gone away. Ramirez is currenty 0 for his last 17 at bats. Lee looks virtually uninterested in the season (I think he’s affected by the situation with his daughter, but don’t know for sure), and Fukudome has actaully become Skip Schumaker in that Lou has been sitting him against lefties.
by Tackle Box on Jul 22, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cubs bullpen
To this point they’re 7th in the NL, but they just added Gaudin, who is much better than the guy he replaces, and will probably pitch in some of the spots that Howry has been used in down the stretch. Marmol hasn’t performed well at all this year, but I’d expect him to rebound a bit once he finds his head. With the addition of Harden, they get to move Lieber into a full time relief role, and one of Marshall or Marquis also moves there to help bolster the long relief, which is where they’ve been really poor most of the season.
They’ve saved nearly as many games as the Cards and Brewers pens have, while blowing quite a few less than either of those pens. With Z and Dempster in the rotation, they don’t have to pitch much during those turns since those guys normally get into the 7th inning in every start.
I’d much rather have their pen than the Cardinal pen right now. That’s for sure.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 22, 2008 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Your looking at the entire season
right now, it’s banged up and under-performing it’s early season. That was at one time a dominant bullpen. But with Wood on the shelf and Marmol pitching like crap last month, things have changed. Plus, like I said before, Howry is COMPLETELY hittable right now and has given up at least one run in every time out lately. Also, Lieber has been the long man all season, and even he is on the DL right now.
Lou lost all faith in that bullpen which is why he over-uesd Marmol (and to an extent) Wood last month. They might be a little fresher right now, but they aren’t the cream of the NL crop anymore. Are they better than the Cards bullpen? Yup, but not by much at this current time.
by Tackle Box on Jul 22, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude
Marmol was doing GREAT until they overused him
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He seems to have righted the ship his last few outings......
Now Howry’s a bit off kilter. Relievers are flaky…..
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 22, 2008 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Cubs finish...
the season on the road in Milwaukee. I would love to see Milwaukee win that series, and jump over the Cubs to win the division while the Cardinals sneak into the wild card. It could very easily happen. The Cubs play only 9 of their last 25 games at home and 6 of those 9 home games are against the Cards and Brewers. They finish up the season going to NY for 4 and 3 at MIL. The other road games are at Cincy and at Houston, plus 3 at STL. Sounds to me like a tough stretch of schedule.
by Jumsy on Jul 22, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to impressed
with BP. If they want me to sign up after the free preview it would help if they got our starters right.
The Cardinals have been a great story, as Kyle Lohse, Todd Wellemeyer, Ryan Franklin, and a host of journeymen hurlers have bought into the Dave Duncan plan and become effective starters in front of a good defense.
That starter Ryan Franklin had a rough outing last night, maybe it’s because we keep trying to start him late in the game. That might be confusing him.
I’m really looking forward to Carps return after hearing about his rehab start. To everyone who says that they aren’t counting on him because of past hopes dashed by Mulder and Clement here’s the difference, Carps done it before. He knows what it takes to rehab and came back to pitch better then he did his entire career. No reason to think that’s going to change. HC, your right on with your tittle, and I’m a sucker for Petty. Although I still think you guys are still trying to get songs stuck in my head.
“The waiting is the hardest part
Every day you see one more card
You take it on faith, you take it to the heart
The waiting is the hardest part”
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Jul 22, 2008 9:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You'll probably get tired of hearing this from me
but some attention needs to be given to the fact that TLR needs to put his best lineup on the field before he whines about getting addtional help. TLR has now failed to start the most productive hitter on his team in 40% of the games since the All-Star break. I can grudgingly accept the fact that Lud might have needed a day off to come down from his AS trip, but there is absolutely no logical reason for him to ride the pine last night.
Skip has more ABs than Ludwick for cryin’ out loud. Lud is first on the team in HRs, first in RBIs, second in OPS, but he has to sit against a meatball pitcher so Duncan can go 0-3. Don’t know if Lud would have extended the first any rally instead of striking out like Duncan, but I would sure rather he get the opportunity.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 22, 2008 9:42 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
+1
Bizarre lineup decisions on TLR’s part do not equal crises on Mozeliak’s part.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 22, 2008 9:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I never tire of hearing a good point repeated over and over. Ludwick needs to be playing every game. If Duncan needs AB’s he needs to get them from Skip or go back to AAA. I don’t understand how he can sit a guy with a 150 OPS on any night.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 22, 2008 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems as if TLR
is trying to emphasize something to Lud. His usual technique is to withhold AB’s until he sees improvement in a targeted area. Is it plate discipline? Is it lack of contact? Lud either lashes the ball or misses it. Does TLR want better contact? He seems to be getting that now with Ankiel. Just guessing. What do you think? Is it possible they’re trying to raise Duncan’s profile so they can get more for him?
by vinniefromjersey on Jul 22, 2008 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's somewhat foolish to tinker with a major leaguers swing
when he’s destroying the ball. I think TLR is just playing matchups to his hearts content when he should just sit on his hands and start ludwick. Winning ball games is the priority not making Duncan attractive trade bait.
by azruavatar on Jul 22, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree-
I’m just guessing as to why Lud is on the pine so often
by vinniefromjersey on Jul 22, 2008 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's giving Duncan his "chances"
Just like he’s giving Izzy his chances, and now, I suppose he will give Franklin his. He’s stubbornly loyal. Sometimes he needs to be told that his persistence is hurting the team.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tell me
Did he sit Ankiel for every games against left handed pitching while he was struggling through the entire month of May and beginning of June? No.
Ludwick rarely sits against lefties, because Duncan and Skip don’t play as much against lefties. He’s sitting Ludwick to get Duncan AB’s, which is why he’s sitting more against right handed pitching, that’s the only explanation. What’s more ridiculous, he mashes RH pitching to the tune of a 1.014 OPS. His BABIP against RH pitching: .388. Sitting him against righties is basically insane, yet LaRussa does it all the time.
I guess you could make the argument that TLR is trying to improve his discipline against lefties, since he has a .392 OBP against RH pitching this season and only a .331 against lefties. Wait—even that doesn’t make any sense…..........
Considering his HR/AB this season, it’s not out of the realm of possibility to say that Ludwick could have 25-26 homers if he got as many PA’s as someone like Ryan Howard.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 22, 2008 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Ludwick could have 25-26 homers if he got as many PA’s as someone like Ryan Howard."
If Ludwick sustained his HR/PA numbers for 2008 (so far) over 675 plate appearances - a full season, give or take - the number comes to 41 homers. Maybe a few more if LaRussa gets his head on straight and stops sitting him against righties.
Who in their right mind regularly sits a 40 HR outfielder?
by mojowo11 on Jul 22, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what gets me is that Duncan's neck has been hurting him for days
and Tony still thinks it is a good idea to start him over Luddy?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 22, 2008 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was what I thought
Ludwick had a really ugly strikeout over the weekend, where he looked really bad. maybe he was being punished? don’t know why Ank gets away with it more though, except maybe that his defense is a tad better
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duncan is starting for trade bait
pure and simple. You can’t trade him if scouts can’t evaluate him since he’s sitting on the bench.
Plus, while I personally would have wanted Lud, there was a logical reason to start Duncan. Lefties hit Shouse better, regardless of Ludwick’s reverse split. People always seem to think the relationship is just hitter and not at all pitcher dependent.
by enoscountry on Jul 22, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah
I don’t think Tony does things that way. He’s just trying to let Duncan “figure it out.” I wish someone would give us something for him, but he has no value if he has no power since his other four tools are all nonexistent.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's a good 1b defender
at least based on minor league stats. His MLB time at first is too sporadic to evaluate in my mind.
by enoscountry on Jul 22, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I watched him play there while Pujols was hurt
And I have to admit, he looked quite good. He had a one very nice diving play in the hole and his footwork was very smooth. That’s right, I used “smooth” to describe Chris Duncan playing baseball. He looked that good. You wouldn’t know it from watching him play OF, but he actually moves pretty well around the bag.
by mojowo11 on Jul 22, 2008 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither of those reasons are good enough...
Ludwick should be starting EVERYDAY…how many other all-star team members have sat two games since the break? Duncan should be getting everyday at bats in Memphis (playing first base) while Mather replaces Skip when we face a lefty. It’s so obvious it’s painful to watch the OFers be mismanaged this way.
by cardzfanbub on Jul 22, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mather has a reverse split
he hits righties much better than lefties, throughout his career.
Mather is worthless on a team with Ludwick.
by enoscountry on Jul 22, 2008 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you please add stats...
This season he has a 1.016 OPS vs. Lefties and a 1.047 OPS vs. righties at Memphis…73 and 138 AB’s respectively. I can’t find anything further back than this season.
If anything his numbers at Memphis this season suggest he should start everyday…but there’s no way Skip is going to be taken out of the lineup barring a trade.
by cardzfanbub on Jul 22, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The numbers
His power is much less against Lefties:
at MLB this year (AVG/OBP/SLG):
vs. RH: .333/.391/.714
vs. LH: .167/.286/.167
at Memphis:
vs. RH: 0.313/0.418/0.656
vs. LH: 0.282/0.393/0.563
career and last year’s stats is missing on the minor league split site since they added 08. But you will find it the same. His good performance in 08 is actually a result of hitting Lefties better in Memphis. That hasn’t shown through here yet, small sample size complaints acknowledged.
by enoscountry on Jul 22, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wonder why...
minorleaguebaseball.com and minor league splits have different numbers? I’m thinking MLS is two games behind…
by cardzfanbub on Jul 22, 2008 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's interesting
Looks like he hit a HR against a Lefty in two more at-bats. Still, I looked up his 2007 numbers in AA and found a bigger split.
As I said, it appears Mather’s getting better against Lefties and I hope that continues. I just don’t think he fits in with our current MLB needs yet given what he offers – corner outfield, power vs. RH pitchers – that’s what we have tons of now.
I’m not a fan of Duncan, but he has a better eye and plays better 1b defense at the cost of some OF defense (although he’s high on RZR). Plus, in terms of trade value, he is only 1 year older than Mather and with much more MLB experience.
by enoscountry on Jul 22, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duncan has a better eye
that gets him a 3-2, then the pitcher simply blows it by him since he can’t make contact anymore.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dunc looked off balance last night.
He has looked a lot better over the past month though…...
I don’t think it really matters if Mather or Dunc are around either one works for me.
I am more concerned with the bull pen at this time than out 4th/5th outfielders.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 22, 2008 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Geez, I think Dunc
looks off balance even when he is hitting well. He has a very funky swing.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 22, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the reason
Ludwick didn’t get any rest because of the All-Star break. Pujols sat Sunday, Ludwick sat last night.
by liam on Jul 22, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Additional info
I know it is somewhat weak to reply to myself, but I am getting fed up with this situation and am getting dangerously close to rant level. I did a little checking and this is what I came up with:
In the 26 games Ludwick has not started the Cardinals have a 14-12 record for a .538 winning percentage and have scored 4.15 runs per game. In the games Ludwick has started they have a 43-32 record for a .573 winning percentage and are scoring 4.97 runs per game. This is the case even though Ludwick plays a disproportionate amount against LHPs which is a team weakness. Now I know a lot more variables are in play here than just Lud the Stud, but this information still looks significant to me.
Furthermore, in the games Chris Duncan has started in place of Ludwick he has accumulated a slash line of .225/.425/.365/.790. Since May 1st those numbers dip to .175/.300/.350/.650. Bear in mind these are almost exclusively against RHPs that Ludwick mashes.
So what is it Tony, do you want to win now or do you want to advance Chris Duncan’s career? I would be in favor of moving Schumaker, playing both Ludwick and Duncan everyday, and seeing where we are after the Olympics. Schumaker has no significant role on this team once Rasmus comes up anyway. Maybe he could catch fire like Ank did last year and be that impact bat.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 22, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice post
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The "Franklin as starter" gaffe...
... seems to just be a typo or Sheehan forgetting to take a word out. I don’t think he really thinks Franklin is a starter, based on his also including “a host of journeyman hurlers” in the same sentence. I doubt Sheehan thinks the Cards’ rotation consists of Lohse, Wellemeyer, Franklin, and “a host” of other guys.
It was sloppy writing, but it doesn’t make me think any less of BP or Sheehan.
by birdjam on Jul 22, 2008 9:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Whatever
And Buck Martinez actually thinks LaRue’s first name is Justin. I have no time for people who don’t fact check
/sarcasm
by Tackle Box on Jul 22, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His real first name is Michael
Jason is his middle name, FWIW.
by Phizzle on Jul 22, 2008 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
any = inning
come on caffeine!
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 22, 2008 9:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wellemeyer
When Carp returns, I’d like to see Wellemeyer go to the pen to close. Joel P won’t give us anything in the pen than a long reliever. Welly was a stud last year in the pen and expect him to be that again if we made that move. It helps the pen tremendously to move everyone down a slot.
Rotation
—-—-——-
Carp *
Loshe
Looper
Pineiro
Boggs / Garcia (until Wainwright * returns)
Pen
—-—-—--
Col. Welly (closer)
Franklin
Springer
Izzy
Gen. McClellan (in honor of union civil war general George B. McClellan)
PFC Perez
Flores
Villone
- This team is toast if both Carp and Wainwright don’t come back and credibly hold down spots in the rotation getting stronger with each start. So let’s plan for it.
by jjray on Jul 22, 2008 10:41 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My vote is for the wagonmaker
as closer (IF he returns- the medical staff is 0 for 2008 so far). The middle finger on the pitching hand of a pitcher whose out pitch is a curveball shouldn’t be stressed multiple times over multiple innings. If he only needs to throw one or two in a one inning outing he has a better chance of staying in one piece. From what they say, they seem determined NOT to use Carp in the pen.
And no more pitchers from the A’s on the downhill slope of their productivity. Let’s go with what we’ve got or what we can get for what we don’t need now or next year.
by vinniefromjersey on Jul 22, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
noooooooo
Kyle McClellan should never be nicknamed after George McClellan, who was one of the worst generals in the Civil War. He nearly lost the war for the North with his sloth-like, paranoia-ridden approach. I hope this isn’t a bad omen for the young Cardinals reliever!
by jdub176 on Jul 22, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in that case
if we’re of the belief that a veb nickname could influence results
we should call him Sherman.
I'd rather my sister be a prostitute than my brother a Cub fan.
by _pistol_ on Jul 22, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
General McClellan
I like the sound of it. Don’t get hung up on history jdub. It’s just dusty stuff in old books.
by jjray on Jul 22, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heheh
But I’m a history teacher. It’s my job to get hung up on these things (and then to pretentiously project them onto this community and others).
by jdub176 on Jul 22, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
tip of the hat to you
for being a teacher.
Didn’t McClellan later run for President? (not the same party as Lincoln)
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 22, 2008 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interesting
I grew up in a neighborhood in Davenport, IA named “McClellan Heights” after said general. I wasn’t aware of his reputation, I think I liked it more when I thought he was some sort of hero….
by mike-h on Jul 22, 2008 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
quote of the war..
“If General McClellan does not want to use the army, I would like to borrow it for a time.” – Lincoln
Everytime I read it, it cracks me up. I thought, about calling McClellan General McClellan nickname, LIttle Napoleon, but our Mac is good, Civil war one was not. I’m sure their is a better McClellan through out history we can find as a nickname
New Member of the Skip Schumaker Fan Club
by cyko42 on Jul 22, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
couldn't find a better mcclellan on wikipedia...
or at least one who seemed important/awesome. sad, it’s a good scottish name. however, we do have a wallace in the system now, and i can definitely think of an important and awesome wallace from history…
by mattybobo on Jul 22, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the most recent
is the McClellan who was whistleblower on the Bush administration
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
my nephew grew up in Davenport
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
looooperr
i still don’t like looper in the starting rotation even though he is 9-7
here’s how i’d do it:
___
Carp
Waino
Loshe
Welly
Piniero
___
Looper
Franklin
Marte* *in a trade where we’d get rid of reyes and duncan
Springer
Izzy
McClellan
Perez
Flores (I hate both flores and villone.)
Villone
by cardsrule15 on Jul 22, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
personally
I’d rather have Welley in the bullpen than Looper
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carp
I know that this idea was thrown out there by Duncan earlier this year… but why not have Carp come back in the pen and close? Wagonmaker will come back and solidify the rotation… make the minimal aquisition of Washburn and then throw Carp in the pen like LaDunc did with Matt Mo when he was coming off Tommy Johns. The staff would then look like this…
__
Wagonmaker
Loshe
Looper
Pineiro
Washburn
___
Carp
Franklin
Springer
Izzy
McClellan
Flores
Villone
That doesn’t look too terrible to me. It puts together a decent rotation for the rest of the year and doesn’t give up anything for ‘09. It also has the added benefit of not putting too much undo stress on Carp’s arm as he recovers from TJ and would allow him to come back fresh and ready to lead this staff in ‘09.
by BigMac545 on Jul 22, 2008 10:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I suggested this yesterday as well
I know the current rotation isn’t fearsome or awesome by any stretch of the imagination, but they seem to be getting the job done for now. It would make sense to me (as long as he is OK with the idea,) to ease Carp back into pitching by using him for less innings/pitches. And I am drooling at the thought of the Cards having a closer the quality of Carp.
by birdjam on Jul 22, 2008 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This has been talked about
but it’s not going to happen. Both Wainwright and Carpenter are being conditioned as starters and will rejoin the rotation when they return. Wellemeyer is a much better bet to close. BUT something has to happen in the closer’s spot before those two guys return or the bullpen will implode. It wouldn’t surprise me to see them trade for an actual closer who would replace Izzy next year (Sherrill, Rauch, whoever).
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nah
Carpenter should stay a starter imo
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looking forward to tonight!
I’ll be taking in my first game at Busch III, wearing my “Pepper” Martin-replica jersey… #1 on this uni…
Hoping the rain will be gone by 7:15, and hoping Kyle Lohse continues his career year!
I’m not sure that there’s all that much that Mo can do to improve this club both this year and down the road; while I like the Pirates’ Marte, i question what use they’ve have for Duncan… Bay can’t play anywhere but LF, while LaRoche blocks Dunc at 1B.
Me, I’d like to see McClellan close tonight; he ain’t scared!
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on Jul 22, 2008 11:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice
Are you wearing the high socks, knee-length pants, and spikes to the game as well? Might as well go full throwback!
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 22, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And don't forget the
chewing tobacco stains!
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Time Horizon
I hope you realize that, by definition, a “time horizon” is something that cannot be reached. Reaching the horizon is a futile effort. “Time horizon” isn’t the 2008 version of truthiness.
Can anyone give me a good reason why McClellan isn’t the closer? He’s clearly the bullpen guy with the best movement on his pitches, he can strike batters out, and his slider induces the groundballs Duncan seems to crave.
Franklin isn’t a two inning pitcher.
by WriteTreatage on Jul 22, 2008 11:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he's used in the highest leverage situations usually
which doesn’t mean that that is always at the end of the game.
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, Wainwright for closer!
Makes a lot of sense. Keeps Adam from throwing so many of those curveballs that hurt his finger and also shores up the back of the pen. If Carpenter comes back near old form the rotation is at least decent. Making Adam the closer moves Franklin back to the 8th inning (where he performed so well last year). Then McClellan and Springer pitch the bulk of the 6th and 7th innings. Overall, the rest of the bullpen is not as overexposed as they have been. Add in Bonds as a power bat and we have a team!
by finmsully on Jul 22, 2008 11:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
NO
You don’t take a bona fide ACE and stick him in a role in which he might save 5-10 games down the stretch when he can WIN 5-10 games down the stretch throwing 7+ innings and resting the bullpen. In 2006, that was okay. He hadn’t proven himself. Taking Wellemeyer and putting him in the pen, I think, is the better option. As I said above, he has been good for the Cardinals out of the pen. He is NOT a proven ace. He is a barely proven starter, to say the least, having the best year of his career. I don’t know that you mess with someone having the best year of his career, but maybe he’d keep it up in the pen. With his struggles recently, which probably relate to his arm being tired, having gone 30+ more innings than ever before with still 60 games (or 38% or so) of the schedule to go. It would take the wear and tear off of his arm and add a better starter in his spot.
by stlfan on Jul 22, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It depends to me on...
which pitcher stands to benefit more from the lighter workload. IMO both Wainwright and Welley would be well served to reduce their IP’s for the rest of the season (and hopefully be stronger for 2009)...the question to me is – Is Wainwright’s finger or Welley’s elbow more likely to give out in the next 2.5 months?...which is more likely to have lingering effects?
Adam’s finger problem REALLY concerns me. Hopefully they can nip this in the bud…otherwise this could threaten his career as a starter cause he needs that big bender to be as dominant as he has been.
by cardzfanbub on Jul 22, 2008 11:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point
I thought that this scenario was based on Waino coming back HEALTHY, though. If he’s coming back early to help the team with lingering side-affects (or direct effects) then I say shut him down for the year and say “eff-it” to this season.
by stlfan on Jul 22, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The pulley-type injury
is only a problem if it doesn’t heal completely. Based upon all the reports of other who had the same injury, it’s not the same thing as a sprained ankle that is vulnerable down the road even after healing. Wainwright should be just fine.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glad to hear it!!!
However last I heard he was pushed from and early August to a mid August return date.
by cardzfanbub on Jul 22, 2008 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's good right?
he will be more healed
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's one way to look at it...
I took it to mean there was some kind of set-back. Thought I’ve read nothing of a set-back.
by cardzfanbub on Jul 22, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In regards to Ludwick/Duncan/Schumaker/whoever else sits/starts occasionally.
Tony LaRussa has a long track record of giving players rest over the course of a season.
I’m going to use some of the biggest name players to make this point. When Jimmy Ballgame was at his best in St. Louis (circa 2000-2005) and was playing relatively healthy, he still averaged sitting 16 games per season. He was a proven player at this point. Through 2005, he made 4 All-Star Games, finished in the top 10 in the rookie of the year voting, got MVP votes 6 times (twice in the top 5), won 1 Silver Slugger, and won 8 Gold Gloves.
In 2003, 2004, and 2006 – Scott Rolen’s three healthy years in St. Louis in which he was an All-Star – he averaged sitting (guess how many) 16 games per season. Through 2006, in his career, he had been a Rookie of the Year, received MVP votes 3 times (top 5 once), made 4 All-Star Games, won a Silver Slugger, and won 7 Gold Gloves.
First base is one of the least intrusive (in terms of health) positions in baseball, period. Even Mark McGwire, when he was hitting 135 home runs in two seasons from 1998-1999, sat games. He only sat an average of 8 games per season. Like I said, he was a first baseman.
Ludwick has had one good season (well, 62% of one) and has been injured nearly every other season in which he has played. He has made one All-Star team based on his 60% of a good season. I think it is okay if he gets games off down the stretch run of the middle of the season. I will be very surprised (if Ludwick continues to impress at the plate as he has done this year) if he is sitting 1 out of every 4 games with 20, 30, or even 40 games left…but right now, it’s okay.
Do you think that Schumaker would be as effective this year if he had an even amount of at bats vs. righties and lefties? Do you think the same for Duncan? Yes, I realize that Ludwick has hit righties better, but is his split more or less pronounced that that of Duncan or Schumaker? No way! Skip’s split is .500 OPS lower vs. lefties. Duncan’s split is .260 lower vs. lefties. Ludwick’s is .127 lower vs. lefties. It is also nearly .400 points higher total vs. lefties than either Duncan or Schumaker. That’s probably the reason he started, I believe, 12 straight games before the All-Star break. We were playing 8 lefty pitchers in that time period, I believe.
Tony, somehow, knows how to get the most out of his players. Yes, you do ride the hot streak, but not to the point of injuring the man for the 438th time in his career. (slight exaggeration)
I hope I got my point across.
by stlfan on Jul 22, 2008 12:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I get your point stlfan...
but I’m thinking Rolen, Edmonds and McGwire missed half those games for health/injury related issues…not for regular rest. I don’t have a problem at all with Ludwick sitting once every 15 games or so, but right now he shouldn’t be on the bench two games in the same week (last Thursday and last night). I don’t think anyone’s complaining about how much Duncan and Schu sit.
by cardzfanbub on Jul 22, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think I've found the savior of our bullpen!
Considering the bullpen, judge for yourself whether or not I’m kidding.
by craig3410 on Jul 22, 2008 12:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Miles throws in the low 70s and high 60's
Pena throws in the 90’s with a sinker and curve.
And throws sidearmed.
by craig3410 on Jul 22, 2008 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha! In KC they call Soria the "Mexicutioner" and now Pena the "Penacutioner"......
I don’t know what they call Jimmy Gobble these days. He gave up 10 runs in one relief inning. I haven’t even seen that in Little League….....I think KC now knows for sure that Gobble is a LOOGY and only a LOOGY and should never be used for anything else under any circumstance.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 22, 2008 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe they should
call him The Turkey…
by saladdays on Jul 22, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
funnily enough (is that a word?)
They do call Gobble “The Turkeyman”
by stlfan on Jul 22, 2008 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They were down 9-0 at the beginning of the inning...
Gobble’s line looked this:
1.0IP 7H 10R 8ER 4BB 1K
"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."
by BigMOman on Jul 22, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
all kidding aside
did they convert him to a pitcher? If so what the hell took them so long?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 22, 2008 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah....they chose to stop bleeding the bullpen.
I’m sure the guys out there were grateful….
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 22, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
but still...Tony Pena Jr is a terrible major league hitter
they should think of converting him. He has a greater chance of sticking in the bigs as a pitcher than as a SS. He makes IZ2 look like Cal Ripken, Jr.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 22, 2008 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
New bench player position:
relief pitcher/defensive replacement shortstop.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 22, 2008 9:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that might work
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 22, 2008 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gentlemen:
All of these comments are very interesting but, as you know, only the powers-that-be will decide what the Cardinals do or don’t do off the field, not any of us or any St. Louis sportswriter. All we can do is speculate, hope for the best and/or bitch—and-moan (which is fun!). With that in mind, I would just love to talk to the Cardinal brass and ask them a few questions and get 100 percent honest answers:
1 – In an era where starting pitchers are lucky to go six innings, relief pitching is CRUCIAL – way more than anytime in baseball history. When you lead the league in blown saves and losses, chances are you aren’t going to be in the playoffs. So,.........”What are you going to do about this problem? If nothing this year, does that mean you don’t care if we make the playoffs this season, after all this effort? It’s almost August. The current crop can’t get it done. Isn’t that obvious by now? Why isn’t this a priority?”
2 – To TLR (who I respect): “Why do you play Chris Duncan as much as you do?” Are you caught between a rock-and-hard place because of his dad? Do you really think this guy is deserving of all this ABs, while sitting Ludwick at the same time? What’s the deal here?”
Sorry for venting…..but watching the same bums (Izzy and Dunc to name two), mess up game-after-game, is driving me freakin’ nuts.
3 – Have
by ccthemovieman on Jul 22, 2008 1:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure the Catch-22 logic
on Duncan is something like:
1. We have to give him playing time to get him going (even though he has sucked for over a year) so that we can increase his trade value
2. On the off chance he does “get going” he will be too valuable to trade.
I think there will be a Texas Death Match between Mo and TLR over Duncan at some point in the future, possiblly the near future. TLR won round one when he effectively refused to use Reyes after Mo insisted he be on the roster. Round 2 will be interesting
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 22, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe Ladunc new he was going to be traded
so they told chris to fake the injury to get back at Mo.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 22, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ohh.....conspircy theories!
Fun! If there really is a Texas Death Match someone eventually has to go, no? I wish I was a fly on the wall…...
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 22, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Incredible quote by Ryan Franklin
“There’s a reason why we’re 13 games over .500, and I think that the bullpen had a lot to do with it,” Franklin said. “Everybody says that the bullpen needs help and that the bullpen is the weakest part of the team. I don’t see that. There’s a lot of times we’re out there when we’ve kept it close, kept us in games.”
If he said that with a straight face, i’d be shocked.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 22, 2008 1:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Baseball players
not objective critics.
by azruavatar on Jul 22, 2008 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What did they say the Cardinals record was
in games the bullpen had a blown save?
I remember thinking the first 2 times I heard it “Well, gee…only 4 games under .500 on those games isn’t that bad”.
Then I realized, “Holy Crap, that’s still 20 some loses!”
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much work does Perez need in AAA?
I was not impressed with his slider and it was supposed to be great. He could be a shot in the arm if he can learn to at least locate is fastball….... Heck that is one thing that really hurt Perez, his command was really bad at times. If he could command his fastball he might be able to get away with a so/so slider at times.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 22, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What hurt Perez is that the Cardinals don't let him use his out pitch
the 4 seam fastball up in the zone.
Look at the Kalk data. He is unhittable on fastballs up in the zone. Yet, that is the least used pitch.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about that
I find it hard to believe that the Cards are stopping him from using a 4 seamer. Ryan Franklin did an interview talking about how he uses his 4 seamer to get the ball up and in on hitters.
I think Perez was working on locating down in the zone which is a good thing at the MLB level as it’s not AAA batters you are facing. AAA guys swing at that high shit and bail you out while MLB hitters spit at pitches that are out of the zone and build up your pitch count faster.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 22, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't want to get into the Perez
argument, but it is a fallacy that a low pitch is harder to hit out of the park. A sinking pitch is harder, but a fastball low and in is a ticket to ride. Look at all those low/in fastballs that Ryan Howard has golfed out of the park. Dude couldn’t hit a fastball up and in to save his life, but we pitch in down, down, down. I think his slash vs. STL this year is something like .478/.571/1.174/1.745.
He has 17% of his HRs and 16% of his RBIs this year against the Cardinals in only six games. Every one of his bombs was either a fastball low and in or an off-speed pitch low and away.
Best pitch in baseball is a quality heater up and in.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 22, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perez had zero command toward the end.
He could not locate his fastball well enough and that was his #1 issue.
See Bob Howry he shows you how affective you can be at the MLB level thrwoing a 92-96 MPH fastball that you can locate.
I think Perez was hurt first and foremost by the fact he could not locate his fastball well enough.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 22, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Perez is probably never going to have great command
that’s just not his calling card.
by azruavatar on Jul 22, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't have to be great.........
He had been way off lately. Missing spots by 17 inches. He throws hard enough he can get away with missing a spot here and again but he can’t miss right over the plate as he is not throwing as hard as Zumya.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 22, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it was 12 losses.
Something like 8 and 12.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 22, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Ryan,
there’s a reason we’re 13 games over, and not 20 games over. Putz.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 22, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
earlier on 590 AM they were freaking out about frankling and springer saying, basically, that the bullpen had been really good this year and were being unfairly criticized.
sure…
by adiueordie on Jul 22, 2008 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Springer has been fine
can’t say the same for Franklin though
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Salomon Torres
Was throwing with some amazing movement last night. Have no idea how Molina got a good piece of the pitch he hit for the double.
Thing is, we burned their best reliever over two innings, so he won’t be available tonight. I’m looking forward to seeing if Suppan has anything. We might just be able to burn the rest of their ‘pen for the next two games.
by liam on Jul 22, 2008 2:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
When will the Cardinals announce Friday's starter?
Tony’s ‘Carpenter Pipe Dream’ aside (although he felt no pain the day after throwing), are they going to wait to see if Boggs is used in the pen before calling someone else up on Friday?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 2:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thompson or Boggs
Depends on if either is used in the Brewers series. My guess is Boggs.. but then that only means he doesn’t get used too much the next few nights.
20 blown saves and no trades (as yet)...... totally frustrating. Team needs a spark…... something from the front office that says “We Believe, 2008”. They don’t have to do much, but can’t they do something?
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 22, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
moves
i really don’t think we need starting pitching like washburn and burnett because once we get waino and carp back we’ll be in decent shape.
i’d really like us to push for fuentes, and if that doesn’t work out we could go for huston street, but if we don’t make any moves i’d like to see anthony reyes closing. (At times he has had decent stuff, which is more than we can say for izzy or franklin this year.)
by cardsrule15 on Jul 22, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reyes ship has sailed
Saw his start Sunday night….. he got hammered. Perez has better stuff (IMHO)
Don’t we have enough problems in the bullpen without having to add pitcher/pitching coach problems to it?
lefty relief is all I’m looking for…. doesn’t have to be Fuentes….. just somebody good.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 22, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ohman
ohman could be the lefty we need
(villone and flores are terrible.)
by cardsrule15 on Jul 22, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Villone is ok, just overused
Flores??? Not sure why he’s there…. but then, there are a few players I have that same thought on.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 22, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
righty
forget lefties though
how does this sound:
Reyes/Duncan for Damaso Marte
Gives us a solid reliever and cleans out the trash. (Sorry… Dunc.)
by cardsrule15 on Jul 22, 2008 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds good to me
But is there wool to pool over their eyes?
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 22, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well.....
the pirates want nothing to do with marte and they need an extra bat
by cardsrule15 on Jul 22, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
problem being
they don’t have anywhere to put Duncan. he might have to go Reyes plus a prospect (no one major)
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about Wasdin?
Or would he have to clear waivers to get sent back down?
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 22, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wasdin is AWFUL
don’t let that start in AAA yesterday fool you. He’s an absolutely abysmal pitcher and their is a reason he’s a career minor leaguer. I’ve seen him pitch several times, and he has nothing.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 22, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm going to the game
I would hope for Boggs to start
by riotmute on Jul 22, 2008 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
plus
plus i don’t think he would be much more effective
don’t forget marte though, he’s not a lefty, but very effective+ we wouldn’t have to give up a lot.
by cardsrule15 on Jul 22, 2008 2:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wrong!
Lots of people want him and he’s only making like $6.5 million with a cheap option. Marte would be a two-plus prospect guy. If we’re going to get a closer, that’s one thing. But he’s way too expensive as a LOOGy.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
first of all
marte has good stuff, and with help from duncan he could be a solid closer
by cardsrule15 on Jul 22, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Braves want a closer..
Would Izzy for Ohman be enough?
Izzy and Reyes?
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 22, 2008 3:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There will not be a trade between Milwaukee
and St. Louis. It’s just not going to happen.
P.S. The fact that Izzy sucks is not a secret.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
leadership
izzy’s leadership and experience might be an attractive factor though.
Some beieve he still has good stuff. (I think he’s done)
by cardsrule15 on Jul 22, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did you arrive in a time machine
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
by the way does anyone know
who the cardinals play august 2nd?
i’m going to that.
by cardsrule15 on Jul 22, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
phillies!
Good chance I’ll be there the 1st
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 22, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh nice
i get to see rollins, howard, and utley!
by cardsrule15 on Jul 22, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about we set the time machine to 1981
Then we decide whether to keep Rollie Fingers or Bruce Sutter as our closer?
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nah...
Split seasons just pisses me off.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 22, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, misread that
I thought you said “Brewers want a closer.” The part about Izzy still goes, though.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why do you think Izzy has any value as a "closer"?
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 22, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
really, this is Teixeira's value?
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/07/22/tt.tuesday/index.html?eref=T1
Rob Quinlan and Brandon Wood?
by rlgosnell on Jul 22, 2008 3:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That is terrible
considering what they gave up to get him.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 22, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anyone see Jason Motte last night?
2 ip 0 hits 0 runs 0 walks 5 k’s
Guy can be filthy when he’s on.
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 22, 2008 3:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if he was throwing any sliders, or if it was all fastballs like usual
because until he gets a secondary pitch, he won’t be much help
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 22, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Charlier steiner XM
they had some guy from the post dispacth on this is what he said…
Mo is gm for his abiliity to compromize old school and new and thinks a move will get done..not wow CC sabathia move, but something to help.
The cards will base rehab starts to see what they need to do even if carp or wainer wont be back until after the deadline.
Said if carp looks like carp then they wont get a SP…and carp wont rush just to be touh and will evaluate on a BP arm to see where Wainers at..which was interesting to me.. He mentioned the bridge to lidge and wainer closing..i was like who is this guy only at the end he said he ws from the dispacth..DID i miss this??
Talked about Tony seeing the performing better than expected and maybe feeling urgency(not knowing how much longer he’ll coach)
he also mentioned that he would take(the guy getting interviewed) a MLB ready proven guy over a unproven prospect any day as long as itd help the team..
Interesting interview..not sure who he is at all other than from STLPD
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 22, 2008 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pretty big difference between scribes at the P-D
If it was Jeff Gordon, I would ignore most of what he said. If it was Miklasz, I would ignore half of it—especially the part about LaRussa. If it was Strauss, probably most of it was true.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it was none of those three
or I would have known it was some guy i had never heard of but I dont live in STL or near it anymore..i used to go there a lot to the forums btu they are all negative there so I stay here.
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 22, 2008 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the P-D
this article seems to suggest that an Eddie Guardado for Jess Todd trade would work.
Guardado doesn’t walk many lefthanders, but he doesn’t strike them out very reliably either.
by liam on Jul 22, 2008 3:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
another guy whose been
up and down a lot…yuck..having a good year but ick
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 22, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds like a bad deal
for St. Louis. Todd’s ceiling could be very high. They need to get somebody else, too.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
rather keep Todd
to see how he turns out.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 22, 2008 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
All I can say is that if we are going to make any trade whatsoever that’s meaningful, it’s going to involve someone like Jess Todd. We have to give someone up to get someone else. Everyone talks about not wanting to give away our top prospects like Rasmus and Anderson, but at some point we have to be willing to part with someone if we are serious about trading.
That said, I don’t necessarily believe that this is the best trade, but the point is made.
by saladdays on Jul 22, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right
but you don’t part with top prospects for players like Eddie Guardado. Todd for George Sherrill I would be more willing to do.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 22, 2008 3:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If even Jeff Gordon
can figure out the deal stinks, one has to assume Mo can, too.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if we give up Todd for someone like Guardado
I will vomit.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 22, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there an
emoticon for that?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 22, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly how i would feel
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 22, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
franklin
says he prefers to pitch from the windup, despite getting destroyed when doing so.
according to 590 AM, he’s way better when pitching from the stretch, and should only pitch from the stretch.
are there statistics for this anywhere?
by adiueordie on Jul 22, 2008 4:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
BR
Slash stats avg/obp/slg/ops
No one on - .257 .336 .455 .792
Men on - .310 .372 .536 .908
Looks better out of the windup to me.
by azruavatar on Jul 22, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Beautiful
Maybe we should make Franklin a starter and Wellemeyer a reliever.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the BETTER of the two is a .792 ops
good lord.
e'rebuilding mang
by nycbirdo on Jul 22, 2008 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
God
I wish those numbers was for our Pinch Hitter that could sub off the bench not our closer
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2008 8:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This will never fly
... and I apologize if someone else on this thread threw out a similar line already… but it occurs to me that we already have the best ‘closer’ we could get, in-house, altho’ not at this minute on the active roster:
He’s proven he can close, by being successful at it before.
He eats nails for breakfast and has the right temperament for a closer.
He has that “favorite Cardinal” aura about him which means he would not only plug the closer hole logistically but also team-chemistry wise.
Who is this masked man?
Adam Wainwright
( in the interests of brevity I will not lay out other parts of my analysis, argument FOR this move, but I am not being frivolous )
by the Tewk on Jul 22, 2008 4:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
problem
WW needs to start if he is healthy and can pitch 6+ innings without any issues. If WW proves his finger only allows short streatches then the Cards can have him close.
Also K Mac closing is an awful idea because he is used in the high leverage spots in the 6th, 7th, or 8th inning. You may not need a closer at all if you don’t use K Mac til the 9th. He will be sitting on his ass because the cards will be trailing 7-4 in the 9th.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 22, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You like it; I like it
but I doubt Wainright, LaRussa and D. Duncan agree
by ccthemovieman on Jul 22, 2008 4:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
bottom line is we have some guys we should hold onto
and a number of guys we should not hesitate to move.
Todd, Mortenson, Garcia, Rasmus, Anderson – keepers.
Duncan, Reyes, Mather, Kozma, Boggs, Parisi – totally expendable.
Mo has to get SOMETHING done – if for nothing else than future credibility. When your manager is clamoring for help, you know the team is in the managers corner. Maybe that expectation was developed by Jocketty’s moves in the past but that’s what Mo is working with.
Kozma, Boggs, Duncan or Mather and Garcia might net Brian Roberts who would be a huge upgrade. Sign Bonds to hit in the 4 hole and this team gets much better.
by rlgosnell on Jul 22, 2008 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Not really
The only person who is essential-named by DeWitt himself-is Rasmus. I would be sad to see Todd go, but that doesn’t mean he isn’t expendable. Ditto for the other starters and Anderson. We can’t get top-flight relievers without giving up top-flight prospects.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is Kozma expendable?
Isn’t he their only middle infield prospect? Sticking with Miles and the worst FA they can find at SS isn’t a good idea, IMHO.
Plus Anderson is expendable, because he has no place to play, with Yadi signed for a while.
by DiscoJer on Jul 22, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Niko Vasquez
drafted this year, kid has tons of potential. He’ll give Kozma a run for his money for Top SS prospect in our system
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 22, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sold on Kozma
could be wrong though
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kid is a year out of high school
He is holding on for being the one of the youngest guys in a tough pitching league.
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 22, 2008 8:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
cool
didn’t know that
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kozma, Reyes, Duncan, Boggs, Todd
for Sherril and Roberts?
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 22, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in a heartbeat
except that last name kinda ruins it for me
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd do it
it’d hurt, but that’s actually a realistic trade for what it’d take to get Sherrill and Roberts
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 22, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Astros acquire Randy Wolf
for minor leaguer Chad Reineke.
The question that comes to my head here is… WHY?
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 22, 2008 4:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
they know oswalt might be done for the year
by rlgosnell on Jul 22, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
still..
they are 10 games back of the wildcard. They should be selling not giving up minor leaguers for mediocre-at-best pitchers like Wolf.
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 22, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the Astros have been known to streak at the end of the season
still, it doesn’t make much sense other than to show the fans they care
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's like that commercial
The guy buys a painting at an auction and immediately says, “Yes, I want to sell it now.”
That’d be about the only reason I’d think the Astros would go after Wolf, and it makes no sense that way either.
by Cardinal70 on Jul 22, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They still streak?
I thought that was kind of a Seventies thing. Cat Stevens and all that. I guess there was that girl at the game last week…
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
P.S.
I really, really don’t want to see Lance Berkman without a towel.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
all the less reason to trade anything for this year
but hey, I have no problem with them mortgaging their future for 4th place
by FunkeeC on Jul 22, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brain damage
It’s that Houston heat…rots out the grey matter.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They've gotta keep trying to win
they traded away the farm for the team they have right now. Even being only 10 games out of the WC, they’ve gotta try and win now.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they are trying to win
Randy Wolf is not the answer.
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 22, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you seen the rest
of their rotation?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
and it’s still bad and they lost a prospect.
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 22, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a very good one
though.
They are going to have to blow this whole thing up in 2 years anyways, might as well use what you’ve got now and start from scratch.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll admit
I dont’ know anything about the guy they gave up.. but I still don’t like the trade..
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 22, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sherrill
O’s want “two or three prospects, one potentially being a shortstop.”
Only thing we have to offer in that department is Kozma and I think that’s too much to give up for him.
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 22, 2008 4:51 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
nah
Kozma won’t be ready for a while, so why not trade him?
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know much about Sherrill
but I like the fact that he is under team control for a few years.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 22, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think someone fished him out of the independent leagues.....
Seattle Mariners, if I’m not mistaken….
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 22, 2008 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mather in Cards Clubhouse
Duncan is not in lineup tonight.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 22, 2008 4:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Duncan sent down
Mather called up.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 5:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Excellent!
Sent down or traded?
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 22, 2008 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Most likely sent down
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 22, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
unknown
no announcement made, as yet.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 22, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How long ago was Mather sent down?
Someone has to be hurt for him to come back up.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true, maybe Duncan is going to the DL
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 22, 2008 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
mather optioned on the 18th
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 22, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah something is up.
Someone is either going to the DL or a trade was made…
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 22, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But you can't call someone up
with a trade. He has to be injured.
Looked like he hurt himself sliding into 2nd yesterday.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
unless we traded 2 for 1
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 22, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
like it hardcore
” Looked like he hurt himself sliding into 2nd yesterday.”
that’s probably a good call… all teams fake injuries at times.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 22, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But it really did
look like he hurt himself. He limped off the field and the trainer was talking to him in the dugout.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that was a good slide
i mean. He stopped yadi from getting doubled off.
by Evilfrog on Jul 22, 2008 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol
who was it last night saying “Duncan should take a big swing, hurt his shoulder, the foul ball would break steve phillips jaw in the booth, and he should let go of the bat so it would hit AK in the leg on the on-deck circle, takes care of all our problems at once” It was tongue in cheek before anyone gets offended.
"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."
by BigMOman on Jul 22, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No idea
could be traded, I guess.
It’s always bittersweet with Duncan. I love the kid but he can’t hit a lick now.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed 100%
Unless there’s a good return, I’d hate to see him traded.. I’m not ready to give up on him yet.
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 22, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tonights Lineup
Schumaker
Ludwick
Pujols
Glaus
Ankiel
Molina
Kennedy
Lohse
Izturis
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 22, 2008 5:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
wow
haven’t seen Kennedy play for a while!
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kind of forgot he was on the team.
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Jul 22, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He pinch-hit last night...
... didn’t he?
by birdjam on Jul 22, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
they ran out of position players, so he must have. I don’t remember it, though.
My fellow Americans. As a young boy, I dreamed of being a baseball, but tonight I say, we must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom.
by Alxfritz on Jul 22, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1-pitch groundout to 1B
Pretty forgettable AB. If you took a call, got up to pee, or blinked, you probably missed it
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 22, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should we call Mather
Joey YoYo?
The Swinger (swing going back and forth)
Mr. I-55
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 22, 2008 5:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Mather is here to stay this time.
Just my opinion…
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 22, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Busy day in the NL Central
Brewers expected to sign Jay Gibbons.
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 22, 2008 5:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
man
those guys just don’t quit do they? how many moves are they gonna make??
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keep watching.....they'll get their reliever too.
They are stacked with prospects at AA—-and they always find more every single draft. Tip a hat to them…..they do that well.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 22, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they are not stacked
at all anymore
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 22, 2008 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At their AA affiliate in Huntsville they are.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 22, 2008 9:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jon Rauch traded to the DBacks
I’m going to be pretty pissed at Mo if the DBacks didn’t give up too much to get him. He could’ve been our closer.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 22, 2008 5:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hm, they gave up a decent prospect to get him
Emilio Bonafacio
Bonifacio, 23, has appeared in eight games this season for the D-backs, batting .167 (2-for-12) with three runs scored, a double and two RBI. He played in 85 games for Tucson (AAA) before being recalled on July 4, batting .302 (111-for-367) with 49 runs scored, 18 doubles, five triples, a home run, 29 RBI and 17 stolen bases. Bonifacio was named to the Pacific Coast League All-Star team and was named to the World Team in the Major League Baseball Futures Game.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 22, 2008 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Surely Mo's working on something else
The buzz is all around Sherrill since yesterday, though there appears to be a decent amount of activity surrounding the Rangers, too. It could just be part of the noise, of course. I wonder if Mo learned how to stalk big game quietly from his mentor. Hint: Do not discuss with Bernie Miklasz who your top ideas are.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bonafacio is a very good prospect
I saw him play in a AAA game this year; he would be the fastest player on our team, and our top middle infield prospect (not that that’s saying much). The Nats did well. I think we would have had to give up Anderson to match this deal.
by tdawg on Jul 22, 2008 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
im not going to get to watch the game tonight
Going to go see bat man. Can someone make sure we win today for me?
by Evilfrog on Jul 22, 2008 5:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
great movie
I’ll do my best to appease the baseball gods and score us a win!
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duncan - DL
Bulging disc in neck.
Must have sprung up overnight.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 5:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Fancy basket catches...
... are not without a price.
by birdjam on Jul 22, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
uh,,,,
this is an interesting turn of events
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jul 22, 2008 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like
Duncan is safe through this season, as this DL stint will take us through the deadline.
This leads me to believe it’s an actual injury and not some made-up one. With at least one team (the Pirates) interested in him, this is not the time for fake injuries.
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 22, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duncan is untradeable
with his father and uncle running the show. This takes the heat off of Mozeliak. 15 days on the DL, 7 days at Memphis, then he’ll be back.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was reading Isaac Asimov's
Chronology of the World and he went into a brief history of the work nepotism. Apparently, there were a bunch of profligate popes in the Middle Ages who had a lot more interest in power than religion. Consequently, they had many mistresses and sired many illegitimate children. The male ones were referred to as the pope’s “nephews” and the popes aggressively protected their interests. My latin is non-existent, but apparently nepotism is based on the word for nephew.
Now Dunc doesn’t look much like TLR, but Uncle might work anyway.
Of course, my tongue is firmly planted in my cheek.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 22, 2008 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the season is like an alcoholic
either they are on top of the world, rescuing the win from the jaws of defeat… or pissing everyone one off after a fun night then blowing chunks.
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 5:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
when is an alcoholic ever on top of the world?
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 22, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
duh
who is this guy?
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 22, 2008 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been fighting my wireless internet and malware on my computer since about the 3rd inning last night
Finally got it situated. Just want to say I’m sick of Ryan Franklin. He’s not our best reliever but we keep putting him in there like he was. As it stands right now I’d have Springer or K-Mac ahead of him for closer, and the other one of those two as the set-up man.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 22, 2008 6:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Lineups
LINEUPS
Cardinals
1. Skip Schumaker, LF
2. Ryan Ludwick, RF
3. Albert Pujols, 1B
4. Troy Glaus, 3B
5. Rick Ankiel, CF
6. Yadier Molina, C
7. Adam Kennedy, 2B
8. Kyle Lohse, P
9. Cesar Izturis, SS
Milwaukee Brewers
1. Rickie Weeks, 2B
2. J.J. Hardy, SS
3. Ryan Braun, LF
4. Prince Fielder, 1B
5. Gabe Kapler, RF
6. Bill Hall, 3B
7. Mike Cameron, CF
8. Jason Kendall, C
9. Jeff Suppan, P
by bgh on Jul 22, 2008 6:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
lets beat ghetto booty
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 22, 2008 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Houstons wolf trade and a depleted farm
Now they will all dress like Pumas and Wolfs and have the cabana guys….
on a serious note many on here talk abotu there farm being depleted…Well maybe u just dont knwo how depeleted. I was in houston and we were driving back from galveston listening to Stros radio they were very funny trying to find the brids score..apparently guys are all out of option there and they have to do the waiver re-sign deal on guys just to send them up and down etc..It really showed just how bad it is, cause nearly every guy they discussed mind u even amrinal talent they were having to do so…Hope that doesnt happen with all the shuffling the cards have ton but they have a lot of guys dl’d the stros not so much.
they were also fearing the guys with decent talent might get picked up by someone
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 22, 2008 6:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, Wolf is an improvement over Runlevys Hernandez....he was starting for them.
I bet it also means Oswalt is shut down for the season.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 22, 2008 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that will be interesting to see
fans at the game i went to were talking about him this year and not being right..i believe it was his inability to throw his breaking stuff for stikes.
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 22, 2008 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ed wade is a f*cking idiot.
that is all.
e'rebuilding mang
by nycbirdo on Jul 22, 2008 6:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he is bad at trades
but does fairly well at drafts…
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 22, 2008 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually he does
when they hired him there was a lot of analysis here…they posted t on MLBtraderumors…look at it. A lot of their core players he drafted
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 22, 2008 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
1 less SS on the market this winter
Guzman reupped with Washington. Busy day for them
by FunkeeC on Jul 22, 2008 7:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Waiting for this game thread
is the hardest part.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 22, 2008 7:45 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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