Cards/A's Trade possible ?

by CardsFanUK on Jul 21, 2008 4:32 PM EDT

MLBTR has just posted this link to an A's blog with an interestng trade scenario with the RedBirds for Colby Rasmus:

http://www.athleticsnation.com/2008/7/20/575122/the-final-sell-off-how-the

As much as I'd hate to see it, it does make some sense. I still wouldnt do it with guys like Stavinoha, Hoffpauir, Perez, Boggs, Garcia and Todd.banging on the door for '09, never mind the man himself !

What do you guys think ?

0 recs | Comment 20 comments

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Don't see it happening...

I don’t think the Cards are looking for a trade as large as that one, and especially not one that involves Rasmus. The Cards’ front office has always been reluctant to trade big name prospects, and a trade for Fuentes is much more likely. Also, if we were to make the trade that they suggested, every one of the names you listed above would be considered fair game.

"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it."- Rogers Hornsby

by redbirds8233 on Jul 21, 2008 4:49 PM EDT 0 recs

i would do that...

but only if it was guaranteed that we signed the players that we wanted to reasonable extensions

by bigmcq16 on Jul 21, 2008 5:02 PM EDT 0 recs

No.

No.
NO.
~~YES~~No
NO.
NO.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 21, 2008 5:15 PM EDT 0 recs

Thank you, Madeline Kahn!

History of the World, Part I—Eunuch scene.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 22, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up 0 recs

well i think if the cards

got duke, ellis, crosby, embree, and street, the Cards pretty much would HAVE to do it…that would upgrade their whole team, and probably add a lot more value than any single player, minus pujols. Plus, you could sell each player off and get more sum value than you could for trading off just rasmus

"I talked to Paul this morning and asked if he could acquire some chemistry from another GM whose team is out of the race. But I'm concerned chemistry might not clear waivers."
--Beane

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 21, 2008 5:35 PM EDT 0 recs

oh ya, not to mention

could you imagine a rotation of carp, wainwright, and duke in addition to an upgraded bullpen and a solid 2b…the cards would shoot to one of the best, if not the best, teams in the NL

"I talked to Paul this morning and asked if he could acquire some chemistry from another GM whose team is out of the race. But I'm concerned chemistry might not clear waivers."
--Beane

by DyeLongJustice on Jul 21, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up 0 recs

Forget it

We won’t trade Rasmus, especially not for a bunch of rentals.

Forget it. Won’t happen.

"And that's a winner. A World Series winner for the Cardinals."

by Bird Watcher on Jul 21, 2008 5:37 PM EDT 0 recs

Not happening

Mo has insisted that we are attempting to shore up this club for the future. Trading perhaps the best OF prospect in the game for a bunch of three month rentals doesn’t jive with organizational philosophy (or common sense, for that matter).

by mojowo11 on Jul 21, 2008 5:39 PM EDT 0 recs

yeh

why not do this if it was on the table
ellis or kennedy? ELLIS
Cesar or Crosby? CROSBY
Street or Izzy? STREET
Duke is a solid pitcher
and embree is a good lefty specialist then we can throw in kennedy cesar/ryan reyes and rasmus as the main piece

ellis probably wouldt be relle difficult to resign, crosby is signed through ‘09, Street is Arb eligible in ‘09 and ‘10 but not a free agent til ‘11, Duke ‘09 arb free agent in ‘10, then embree with ‘09 club option

by fzeballer15 on Jul 21, 2008 6:59 PM EDT 0 recs

I posted a fuller comparison of 2b men in the other thread, but....

Ellis or Miles? If you look at the stats this year, you’d have to take Miles.

Of course you’d take Crosby and Embree.

But Street has been injured and Duke is another 30 year old pitcher we’d be getting from Billy Beane. Last time that happened, well, the guy’s been on the DL for the last 2 years pretty much.

Meanwhile, as someone said over on the A’s site, Rasmus is cost-controlled for 6 years (thru 2014) and projects to be an all-star. We need a couple relievers and we need to not sell our top prospect while doing it. We don’t need the entirety of the semi-valuable pieces left on the Oakland roster.

by mtalken on Jul 21, 2008 8:39 PM EDT up 0 recs

why?

would you take Crosby over Iz2? I’d take Iz2’s subpar offense and excellent defense over Crosby’s “potential” anyday. Like we need more guys with “potential” who can’t put it together (Dunc/Reyes).

by lopey986 on Jul 22, 2008 1:15 AM EDT up 0 recs

Here's two examples why:

Ryan Ludwick
Rick Ankiel

There’s two examples of players who took a little longer to put it all together (Obviously Ankiel is for far different reasons), but in Crosby, worst case scenario is you get Cesar Izturis offensively. Best case, you have a guy who can hit for an .800 OPS from a premium position. Also, he’s been a guy that the people over at the A’s blog have said has been villified over there. Going someplace new could actually help him.

Hell, let’s give them Anthony Reyes for Crosby!

by mtalken on Jul 22, 2008 10:18 AM EDT up 0 recs

ludwick

was just blocked in the system for a while and never even got a chance. crosby has had his chances, a lot of them, and aside from his rookie year he hasn’t done a damn thing in the league. no thanks, i’ll take the excellent defense of iz2 over the cros anyday.

by lopey986 on Jul 22, 2008 1:27 PM EDT up 0 recs

Never.

Miles in '08

by Zoop on Jul 21, 2008 7:51 PM EDT 0 recs

sorry, but out of that group of players, duscherer is the only player i’d want. Ellis maybe, but no way on the other 3. Crosby has never held a candle to the hype. saying you’d take street over izzy ain’t saying much. embree would be alright, but there are other teams that have loogy’s available. this would be a colossally stupid trade, and i can’t believe some of you are even advocating this so called rumor, which isn’t really even a rumor, but some blogger’s opinion of what he thinks his A’s should do.

this is right up there with all the Duncan/Reyes/more of our crap for Holliday or Bay ideas.

by bigJOE1 on Jul 22, 2008 2:20 AM EDT 0 recs

I completely disagree with everything you just said

1. Street and Duchsherer have been All-Star players. Ellis is more productive second baseman than anyone we currently have on the roster. Crosby has some potential to be a pretty good player—imo, he needs to get out of Oakland. Not to mention that Embree has been a LOOGY for a number of playoff teams over the years and would be a giant upgrade over Flores and Villone. Saying you wouldn’t want Street or Embree considering how bad the bullpen has been this year is insanely shortsighted. Not to mention that you add a 2008 All-Star starter that allows you to move Wellemeyer or Pineiro to the bullpen. Saying that you’re not interested because of the cost is one thing, saying you’re not interested in those players at all is just dumb.

2. Depending on who the other Cardinal players are, wouldn’t Beane have to consider this trade? He’s going to probably be moving some of these players in the next 12 months anyway, has a gaping hole in CF and behind the plate, and just traded for some MLB ready middle infielders earlier in the month. If we offered Rasmus, Ryan, Reyes, and Boggs, I think he’d be crazy not to accept that trade. He gets two cost controlled pitchers with some talent, a guy to fill his center-field gap for the next 6 years, and a utility infielder who’s also cost controlled. If you throw in Anderson instead of the other three, he fills two huge holes on his ballclub for 6 cost controlled years. The A’s would get really young, and probably have a shot at contending in the AL West in a couple of years as the Angels start to age.

3. My trade would be Rasmus, Anderson for Duke, Street, Embree, Ellis, and Crosby. The only player they’d have to resign next year would be Ellis; Street, Duke, and Crosby would be arb-eligible, and Embree would have a player option. You could probably get Ellis for a 3Y/$20-$25M, add that to the arb salaries and Embree’s option and we’re probably about $10 million under the self imposed cap of $105M, enough to go out and look for a decent hitting veteran left fielder, which would be the only need at that point.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 22, 2008 9:54 AM EDT up 0 recs

Ellis isn't good this year.

Ellis OPS this year: .710
Ellis OPS career – .748

Miles OPS this season – .764

The idea of paying Mark Ellis 8M a year to put up a .750 OPS seems pretty silly to me when we have a guy we’re paying a lot less for who’s been playing some really fantastic defense recently and has a better OPS. I know he’s playing over his head, but is 60 points of OPS from your 2nd baseman worth an extra 7M/year?

by mtalken on Jul 22, 2008 10:25 AM EDT up 0 recs

Hey all, I'm the guy who the wrote the article

Thanks for the feedback, and for operating such a great blog here at VEB.

Just a few talking points:
1. I think that a simple OPS comparison between Ellis and Miles is a bit too quick-and-dirty, because the AL-to-NL switch is likely to benefit most hitters. It’s widely acknowledged enough that Silver factors it into his PECOTA projections anytime a player switches over (~50 pt. bump-up in the switch from AL to NL, IIRC). Plus Oakland’s park is a graveyard for flyballs. I made this proposal with the idea in mind that Ellis is an .800 OPS second baseman playing for the Cardinals AND an outstanding defender.

2. I realize the downside to acquiring rentals, which you guys have mentioned, but I’ll give you an important upside, too: The Cardinals would get to audition their potential long-term answers up the middle – Crosby and Ellis, assuming extensions – before they had to pay them huge money. All the questions you’re typically scared about with a new FA acquisition – how will hit in our park? How will mesh with the team chemistry? Does he like living in STL, and playing for LaRussa? All those things that you typically have to dole out 20-30 million on in FA and not really know the answer to…instead, you get to “try on” Crosby and Ellis during this pennant race and see if they would be good long-term fits for two big organizational needs – SS and 2b. Having greater certainty in your long-term investment – that’s a positive benefit in acquiring a 3-month or 1.5 year rental (assuming you might want to re-sign them).

Plus, the team gets to try him on as their 2b of the future.

"The painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me." -Wedding Crashers

by notsellingjeans on Jul 23, 2008 1:42 AM EDT 0 recs

Ignore that last sentence please

I was revising and missed it, sorry.

"The painting was a gift, Todd. I'm taking it with me." -Wedding Crashers

by notsellingjeans on Jul 23, 2008 1:44 AM EDT up 0 recs

I agree...

I feel like if you could get all of that in return for Rasmus, you’ve gotta pull the trigger… the weak middle infield gets replaced, you get an all star closer AND starter, and you get another serviceable reliever to make the bullpen stronger for this year’s stretch run. It helps your team enormously this season, and it’s not like any of the FIVE would be absolutely sure to walk when their contracts run out.

Rasmus is great and all… but we’ve got a gluttony of outfielders already, and this improves five positions on the team. Oakland would be nuts to do it. We would be smart.

by JDubs on Jul 23, 2008 7:46 AM EDT up 0 recs