Trade rumor/speculation catch-all thread
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 9:22 PM EDT
401 comments
Hello, everyone.
I thought I would create this Fanpost to allow VEB users to discuss trade rumors or trade ideas instead of seeing separate Fanposts on all the different ideas. We did this back in December during/leading up to the Winter meetings, and I thought it was a good idea.
So please, if you have any trade chatter you'd like to pass on to the users of this blog, use this Fanpost instead of starting a new one.
To lb and the other editors: If you disagree with me, feel free to delete this, I just thought it would keep non-trade rumor Fanposts on the front page longer.
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If we do this...
Can we keep it in the Recommended Fanposts for a while so it is front and center for everyone to see?
by stlfan on Jul 14, 2008 11:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oakland A's
Looking around for a 2Bman who is an upgrade over Adam Kennedy or Aaron Miles that wouldn’t cost too much to get, I came upon Mark Ellis. Right now, his home stats are severly affecting his overall stats, so a change of scenery could really help him. Add to the fact that the A’s just got Eric Patterson from the Cubs and Patterson is ready to play makes Ellis more available. With Richie Sexson being released from Seattle, the Mariners have a gaping hole at 1B. The Cards could try to do a 3-way deal.
Cards Get:
LHP Arthur Rodes
2B Mark Ellis
A’s Get:
2B Aaron Miles (Seat Warmer)
SS Tyler Greene
RHP PJ Walters
Mariner’s Prospect
Mariners Get:
1B Chris Duncan
Another guy to look at is Orlando Cabrera. They have Alexi Ramirez being the backup MI with Uribe manning 2B. They have Chris Getz ready to play 2B. They could slide Alexi to SS and promote Getz to the big leagues to shop Orlando Cabrera around. They need some more pitching if they plan at making a run for a title.
Cards Get:
SS Orlando Cabrera
White Sox Get:
RHP Anthony Reyes
C Nick Derba
OF Jon Edwards
None of the two players I mentioned have high trade value. Ellis’s splits are odd, not hitting at home, but hitting on the road.
by AP5 on Jul 15, 2008 12:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
why deal Miles as a seat warmer?
have you not paid attention to what he’s done this year for us? Previous years erased, he’s done a fine job for this ball club, and frankly I’d like to keep him. I’m not saying he’s great, but he’s cheap and won’t get as much in return as he’s worth to this team.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jul 15, 2008 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sell high high high
I’ve been pretty happy with Miles, too, but these are his career OPS+ results over his career:
2004: 72
2005: 65
2006: 74
2007: 76
2008: 100 (thus far)
Aaron Miles is a known quantity, and is downright consistent in his crappiness with the bat. He’s playing a little over his head right now and frankly I just don’t think he’s having a breakout year at the age of 31. I expect he’ll come down to earth to some degree in the second half. The way I see it, if someone will give something of value for him, you pretty much have to do it.
by mojowo11 on Jul 15, 2008 9:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no one will buy him, though
that’s the problem. I honestly don’t see any team giving up much at all for Miles. Like I said, “I’m not saying he’s great, but he’s cheap and won’t get as much in return as he’s worth to this team.” and that’s what you ultimately need to consider in trade talks.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jul 15, 2008 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
I don’t think anyone would take him, least of all Beane. But if we were to get Ellis as in the proposed deal, then it would be worth losing Miles. We’re not talking about dealing him as a salary dump, the idea would be to get something back.
If the question was “Why deal Miles as a seat warmer?” then the answer is “Because we’d get Ellis back.” Saying we shouldn’t do that deal because Miles has been good and saying that deal wouldn’t happen because Beane wouldn’t take Miles are different things.
by mojowo11 on Jul 15, 2008 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good point.
I guess I just feel like we have some other “seat warmers” more worth trading than Miles. It was the “seat warmer” term that got me because seat warmer typically means a throw-in, and we have some much more “throw-in eligible” players than Miles in my opinion.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jul 15, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In regards to the white sox deal...
I don’t think any team in the majors would view Reyes as a player that could help make a run for a title. He is a nice throw in a piece, but if you want the white sox starting short stop the package would have to be much more enticing. The sox would claim that not only would we be getting their shorting start shop, but cabrera is atleast a type B free agent so if he walked from the cards we would also be getting a high draft pick that no longer would belong to chicago.
The wind in here just shifted 360 degrees!!!
-Mike Shannon
by cardsphan04 on Jul 15, 2008 2:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That first trade would be terrible for the Mariners
Giving up Arthur Rhodes and another prospect for Chris Duncan? Doubt they would go for that. I also don’t think they and the A’s would be too keen on dealing with each other, seeing as how they’re in the same division.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 15, 2008 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think they'd do Duncan for Rhodes, easily
Arthur Rhodes is 38, and is a LOOGY on a team destined to lose ~90+ games. Chris Duncan has a potential upside close to Justin Morneau’s, and is under club control for 4 years after this one.
Agree about the prospect to the A’s, though. When the A’s ask for one of your prospects in trade, the best thing to do is probably hang up the phone and promote the prospect ;) Ellis will probably be more expensive than that, too, though it’s hard to guage value sometimes. With the way Kennedy is hitting, it might be better to just wait and sign Ellis after the season.
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jul 15, 2008 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Probably true
But a couple of things to consider:
1. The OP also put a prospect going from Seattle to Oakland in the trade, so they’d be sending us Rhodes and Oakland a prospect to gain Duncan. He didn’t mention what level or type of prospect, but it’s more than just a Rhodes for Duncan swap.
2. If I were the Mariners’ GM, I’d think that with so many teams gunning for LH relief pitching, I could get a better return than Chris Duncan, or at least I’d see what else I could get before pulling that trigger.
Duncan may have the potential upside close to Morneau, but the fact of the matter is he hasn’t been a quality player for a year. From the all-star break to the end of last season, he put up a .209/.311/.367/.678 line. He was injured for a large portion of that time, but this season (during which he has been physically healthy, to my knowledge at least) his line is only a slight improvement at .255/.354/.377/.731 and an OPS+ of 95. He is very good at taking walks (his OBP being 100 points higher than his BA is very impressive) but his power stroke has disappeared. Since last year’s ASB he’s only had 26 XBH’s.
It would be a case study in selling low if we traded Duncan right now.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 15, 2008 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
duncan seems like he could be a beane crush, to me. i’m sure he’d be glad to buy very low on him.
by baw on Jul 15, 2008 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Duncan gets us Rhodes, do it!
Then that would leave Chris’s spot open to promote Rasmus. I know people think he needs more time, but why trade prospects of an outfield bat. That outfield will be upgraded by promoting Colby. Each time Rasmus has been promoted he has gone through an adjustment period. April and May were tough for him but June has been a break out month. Why wait to September to call him up. Do it after Duncan clears the roster and let him become the fourth outfielder on the depth chart.
As far as the MI goes why trade our prospects for what might be a marginal upgrade? At 2B I am not sure Ellis really gives us more than Kennedy and Miles when you consider what we would have to give up. Kennedy’s bat has been pretty hot lately and Miles has value as a back up. Aaron can spell Troy at 3B and play SS when needed. Khalil Green gets mentioned here a lot and I don’t think he is a good fit either. He is having such a bad year and his splits against lefties just plain stink. Plus again we will give up prospects and in my fearful mind not get enough in return. So why not promote Brian Barden? He can take Ryan’s spot on the roster. Barden can platoon with Izturis. Oh just a side bar: Why doesn’t Izturis just give up the switch hitting? Barden has some pop and a move like this doesn’t upset the teams chemistry.
Starting pitching is something that will get stronger when AW comes back. By not trading for a SP it saves the prospects for the big deal this team needs to make.
A closer! A closer! my kingdom for a closer!
There has been a lot of talk about Brian Fuentes, but why not B. J. Ryan? I know he has a huge contact around his neck. Cotts has him at 10mil for ‘09 but maybe the deal could be made with the Jays taking some of that money. Plus they have Scott Downs maybe he would be more attractive.
So Duncan for Rhodes, promote Rasmus, option Ryan and replace him with Barden, and then find a closer. Why trade our prospects to fill holes we can fill from with in? Perez maybe the closer of the future, but we need to build a pen NOW! Everything else is secondary!
by nybirdfan on Jul 15, 2008 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If it is a closer you want...
why not look into Huston Street in Oakland? The A’s have been looking to move him for the right return. I know it is with Oakland and Beane fleeces teams in trades for his players, but why wouldn’t the Cards be interested. They could then keep Perez out of the closer role until they feel he is completely ready to take the role, and at that point, Street could be flipped for prospects. Street would still be young enough to be flipped for decent talent since his career shouldn’t be close to the end. He also acts as an insurance policy in case Perez can’t put it all together.
by Jumsy on Jul 15, 2008 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wasn't it billy bean who said
‘The easiest way to inflate a pitcher’s value is to get him some saves.’ I think I read that in Money Ball or something real close. I would recommend extreme caution when dealing with him. Or better yet simply don’t deal with him.
by nybirdfan on Jul 15, 2008 4:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A's probably wouldn't take Miles as a "Seatwarmer"
because the A’s have several seatwarmer middle infielders at the moment-guys who are not quite good to be permanent starters, but good enough to hold onto the job till someone comes along who is good enough.
Gregorio Petit (Great Defense, decent bat), Donnie Murphy (Good defense, platoon bat but has some power) and maybe Jesus Guzman (Great bat at least in AA, questionable defense, just promoted to AAA).
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Jul 17, 2008 2:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not to mention they have patterson in AAA
We've never been in that position. We wouldn't know how to operate, I mean, do we get him a corsage?-Billy Beane on signing a high profile FA
by DyeLongJustice on Jul 19, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For anyone that missed it...
Mo was on one of the local stations here today, 590 the fan, and I caught his interview. He obviously couldn’t say much but you could tell where he was leaning. It was clear his priorities are as follows 1)Big bat, preferably a clean up hitter 2)Bullpen help 3) Starting pitcher. The pitcher to him really isn’t even a concern. It is apparent that to him, Wagonmaker coming back is just as good as any trade he could make so it is not a priority. i also think he hopes that IF carp doesn’t make it back to the rotation, he can be a force in the bullpen.
The guys also asked him about trading Rasmus and what he said ina round about way was, any team that calls initally right now, always first ask about Rasmus, the cardinal orginization gives them a quick simple answer, ( he didn’t say his actual answer but you would think it’s NO) for teams that they have spoken with several times they have gotten past the rasmus issue and are looking at other personel.
You might be able to get a replay of the interview on 590 the fans website. It was with the afternoon show following Jeff and Jeff.
All in all, in my opinion I think he will get a average lefty to help shore up the bullpen and then shoot high for the big bat. It is obvious that the orginization feels it needs more protection for albert.
I would go in one of two directions
1)The pirates want pitching so give it to em
Bay for Reyes, Mortenson, salas, and Jon Jay…you could throw duncan in there to clear a roster spot but I really don’t know if pittsburg would want him.
2) Go bigger with Pitt.
Bay and Marte for Reyes, Mortenson, ottavino, Salas, Jon Jay, and Chris Duncan
A nice old 6 for 2 deal, that propbably still wouldn’t be good enough though
The wind in here just shifted 360 degrees!!!
-Mike Shannon
by cardsphan04 on Jul 15, 2008 2:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Great stuff man
I’d rather the order be 1) Bullpen help 2) Starting pitcher 3) Big bat. Most “big bats” that could potentially be available play in the outfield, and I think the outfield as we currently have it set up is playing fine. If we could somehow get a big bat that plays a MIF position, that would be ideal, but I don’t know whom we would go after, or if we’d even have the pieces to get one.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 15, 2008 2:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If there's a middle-infield prospect, who is Rasmus' offensive equal
Say, the next A-Rod, then I’d certainly hope that they’re listening. While it should take a lot, I wouldn’t rule out trading him at all, if the right deal presented itself. Considering our excess of outfielders, trading Rasmus could be a part of the best solution, but only under the right circumstances, of course.
by rob is back on Jul 15, 2008 2:49 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
The bigger problem is
first, finding an orginization that has a prospect of rasmus calliber up the middle is difficult to do. then to find one that is actually looking to make a deal is darn near impossible. Some cream of the crop guys I can think of off the top of my head are, Brandon wood from the angels, Mike Moustakas from KC, Matt Antonelli from SD, Jed Lowrie from boston, and Chin-lung Hu from the dodgers. These guys are all premiere prospects but none are as high as Rasmus. I think the ideal situation might be to try and aquire someone at ss like khalil Green, he shouldn’t cost to much and he needs a change of scenery. The cubs have been linked to him so Im sure the cards could match a reasonable offer.
The wind in here just shifted 360 degrees!!!
-Mike Shannon
by cardsphan04 on Jul 15, 2008 3:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know that i am replying to myself but,
I just looked at Greens contract status and it’s not good so I think I will go back on that idea. He is owed 11 mill next year. For that price I would rather just wait till the offseason and go for Furcal or Renteria.
The wind in here just shifted 360 degrees!!!
-Mike Shannon
by cardsphan04 on Jul 15, 2008 5:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Greene is only...
owed 6.5 million next season. I think he is the best option for a MI with solid Defense and some pop in his bat.
Texas has a 2B/SS named Joaquin Arias who is blocked by Michael Young and is not preferred like Elvis Andrus. He is 23 years old and has had some injuries the past couple of seasons. In 2006, was named by baseball prospectus as Texas’ best defensive player, best average hitter, and best infield arm (also a Futures game selection). He currently is hitting .289, has 20 sb (4 cs), but only a .320 obp (smiliar to his career minor league stat lines). Could he be someone to take a chance on to be the ss of the future in St. Louis?
by Jumsy on Jul 15, 2008 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They absolutely should go to Pittsburgh.
They should offer pitching to the Pirates for Marte-a AAA arm, AA arm, and another player. The starting pitching situation in Pitt is at critical mass…...only 3 of their starters are healthy-and only one is pitching well. They have exhausted their AAA stock, gone to their AA stock, and those folks haven’t fared well either. This could be the place they could send Reyes-heck his bad year last year is BETTER than what some of their starters are putting up this year. Would they trade within the division? Would they take Reyes? Maybe if you give them Thompson too-they wanted him in the past…...the Pirates have so many needs and a GM who wants to re-stock so he can get on with the re-building. But they need arms they can start….I believe there’s a deal here-just keep mixing and matching until they say yes.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 15, 2008 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Surely you're forgetting
how well it went with our last late-season acquisition of a Canadian-born outfielder.
(I’m not a big Bay fan, either.)
by liam on Jul 15, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duncan & Reyes for AJ
is the rumor most reported at PD Cards’ Talk. Poster there heard it on ESPN Radio this AM. Plus others have heard it on NYC sports talk radio.
Anybody else heard anything?
Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2
by gocards62 on Jul 15, 2008 11:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That can't possibly be true.......could it?
I don’t believe they would trade Duncan and I think the Jays would want much more than Reyes for Burnett…....and with the kind of luck we have with “impact” pitchers, you just know A.J. would hit the DL after his second start.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 15, 2008 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MORE than Reyes?!?
Haven’t you heard, he just needs a change of scenery, and to get away from the evil TLR and Duncan, and he’ll be GREAT. GREAT I tell ya.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 16, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is that enough to get Burnett?
Or is it some other AJ you’re talking about :P
If that’s the deal on the table, do it in a heartbeat. The Blue Jays would become the former Cardinals, just like the Cardinals were once the former Angels (I guess they still kinda are)
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 15, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm.....maybe the Jays want to dump that contract before he
gets hurt again and decides to stay next year….if there is one player who desperately needs a change of scenery, it’s old # 23….....it would be a nice change for him it he got on a team that actually wanted him…....But Burnett, his contract and his injury history all scare me to death…....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 15, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roughly $4 million the rest of this year
$12 mill the next two. IF he stays healthy, he could be worth it, because he’s a dominant pitcher. Career FIP of 3.78, including 3.59 this year, career WHIP of 1.29, including 1.46 this year. His LD% and FB% are up this year, though, so that’s a red flag to me. Busch Stadium has been better for pitchers than the Rogers Centre in every category save two last year and one in 2006. Not to mention we have stellar defense all around the park, while the Blue Jays employ David Eckstein at SS, and play on turf. I’d do Duncan and Reyes for Burnett every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 15, 2008 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldnt mind doing that move
even if he does opt out. You rid yourself of two issues, keep rasmus. The debate to what to do with Reyes would be done. The dump Duncan fans would be happy, the get AJ fans would be appeased. Now if only they could get back Grudz in that deal then everyone would be happy..jk seriously though I doubt the jays would do that, thats selling pretty low.
Has he really ptiched up to his last contract?
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 15, 2008 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if there is any remote possibility of this actually happening?
because without a doubt we should do this trade. I still wish we had dealt Dunc to the Giants, but that seems all past now. At this point, this seems about as good of a deal as we’re going to get for these two guys.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jul 15, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the Blue Jays would go for that
If they would, jump on it Mo!
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 15, 2008 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
they went for a straight up swap of Rolen and Glaus, which was damaged goods for damaged goods, so why wouldn’t they trade Burnett for Reyes and Duncan, two guys who could play for them right away. Duncan is basically a younger Matt Stairs and Reyes might just need a change of scenery to get going again.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 15, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Reyes might just need a change of scenery to get going again."
I hope that’s Mo’s sales pitch to them
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 15, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It doesn't quite work that way.....
Mr. Mo can say whatever he wants; the teams’ scouts determine if they see something they can work with.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 16, 2008 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe that was a joke . . .
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jul 16, 2008 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not remembering well...
Was there a confirmed offer on the table from the Giants for Duncan? When? For what?
by stlfan on Jul 15, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
all speculation. I think they wanted him. We wanted pitching. Never went further than that.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jul 15, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you telling me...
that the giants were interested in a lefty hitting first baseman or something?
by mattybobo on Jul 15, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if he stays healthy
he is DEFFINATLY worth it.
we have Pineiro for 8 mil next year, surely AJ is worth four more than that.
Plus we still have Joel around for when he is on the DL.
;-)
I do that deal in a heartbeat, but somehow I have a very hard time believing it.
What we need now is AJ to get into another fued with managment.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jul 16, 2008 3:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
didn't Mo...
... or somebody in the StL front office specifically say at some point that they had no interest in AJ? that could’ve been a stonewall, but i’d be surprised if anything like that gets done.
by kindred on Jul 15, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish we could have moved duncan last year for the
speculated ervin santana interest, and him being available for a bat
by from First to Third on Jul 15, 2008 6:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
O yeah
and on mlbtraderumors they had a piece on bedard. Seattle’s gm knows there not going to get what they gave for bedard first time around, I’d like to hope Mo checked on that.
by from First to Third on Jul 15, 2008 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get it through your head, folks......
They are not moving Duncan. I would be shocked, stunned, surprised, if they are considering that at all. They have never said they were moving Duncan. Reyes is who they were moving, oh, nevermind. They didn’t do that either. I don’t know what to make of the front office lately, anyway…....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 15, 2008 6:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and they shouldn't.
it’s amazing how badly the perception of this guy differs from reality.
Even with his dreadful start, he’s only 50 points of OPS under Skip, and he has a .970 OPS in July… so he could catch up and fly right by skip Real Soon Now.
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jul 15, 2008 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, I don't buy that at all.
Do the Cards seem to value Duncan more than they should? Yes. Is it because he’s Dave’s son? Maybe that is part of it. Is he untouchable? Absolutely not!
This assumption that Dunc is off the table because of his pops is too far over the top, however. Just a lazy assumption that has been elevated to dogma. In fact I’m sure that at some point DD has told Moz that trade decisions need to be made for the good of the team, and that trading Chris would not offend him. And he means it, too.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 16, 2008 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Duncan doesn’t mind Shelley playing for the Yankees. Can’t imagine he’d mind it if Chris were traded somewhere he could play everyday, or at least more often than he’s likely to with the outfield depth we’ll have here over the next few years.
The guy’s a professional, so are his sons.
by liam on Jul 16, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
am i missing something?
where in jill’s post, or anywhere else in this thread for that matter, does anyone mention the father-son thing?
by baw on Jul 16, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not in that post...
... but in many others over the past year.
by kindred on Jul 16, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know, but he was replying to her post with:
Sorry, I don’t buy that at all.
by baw on Jul 16, 2008 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OK, I'll admit that I
assumed (which makes an ass of me, I know) the father-son subtext, but my first line referred to her strong statement that the Birds would not consider moving Duncan. I think they’d move him in a heartbeat for the right deal. And in fact, I’m betting they’re chagrined that he’s not playing better so he would be an even more valuable chip.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 16, 2008 4:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, I have heard LaRussa say he didn't want Duncan traded. He said it last off season.
I have no clue what his father says about it. i’m guessing he’s not part of that decision making process anyway.
It’s only been media speculation that Duncan is on the market. That’s why I’d be surprised, stunned, shocked if Duncan would be moved….....
I almost never post anything about Duncan. You must have me confused with someone else…....it’s a strange thing with Duncan-unless he gets the power back, and it’s kind of been gone for awhile, he’s not worth much-to us or anyone else. He’s been hitting better so maybe it will come.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 16, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well if you ask him about
any of his players he’d say the same thing, wouldn’t he?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 16, 2008 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
unless their name is
Scott Rolen
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 17, 2008 7:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's an article by a pittsburgh paper
about burnett possibly coming. They didn’t say who was in the deal. Maybe it was ryan instead of reyes, since they need a shortstop.
by from First to Third on Jul 15, 2008 8:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Article was in...
The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. They had some other info about players who they thought would have a bad 2nd half and their pick to start the 2nd half out on fire… Rick Ankiel. Who knows what Pittsburgh really knows about baseball though…
by Jumsy on Jul 15, 2008 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a shame really
Pittsburgh has such a long and impressive baseball history, but they’ve just sucked for the last decade and a half
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 15, 2008 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since they let Barry walk
the Bonds curse will be upon them until someone breaks his record…
(SF too, hopefully)
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jul 15, 2008 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that'll be less than a decade
could be much worse for them.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jul 16, 2008 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kelly Johnson for 2nd Base
Since St. Louis needs a long term solution to man second, what about Kelly Johnson. It seems that the Braves are in need of outfield and possibly a first baseman if Texiera is traded. Why not try to package say: Chris Duncan and Brendan Ryan for Johnson and a player to be named later?
Duncan would fill a need for Atlanta and Johnson for us. Both players have some potential to be more than what they are. Would this fly?
by Priest on Jul 15, 2008 8:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll bet you Sheets serves one up to A-Rod right here
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 15, 2008 8:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Shit wrong thread
Sorry guys
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 15, 2008 8:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Confused
what i dont understand is how so many of you all think these other teams are going to give away players that are producing for someone like Duncan…even if he was on the block…he’s not been doing anything…can’t play LF, can’t hit well, not a good baserunner…im confused by that.
by Boose20 on Jul 15, 2008 11:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"not doing anything"
duncan has a .970 OPS so far in July ‘08, to go with his .932 OPS in 2006 and the .955 he put up through July 26th of 2007.
Hopefully he’s got things fixed and will make us all proud in ‘09, but the idea of trading him for a LOOGY makes me sick. Skip’s the kind of guy you trade for a LOOGY. Duncan could be a league MVP (IE, justin Morneau) if he has a bit of luck against LHP.
"..and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped." -Sir Belvedere
by SleepyCA on Jul 16, 2008 4:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Duncan could be a league MVP ... if he has a bit of luck against LHP."
Dude, April Fool’s Day was 3 and 1/2 months ago.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 16, 2008 10:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Though not so snarkily.
Duncan could post a .900 OPS and be an offensive force, but he’s not MVP caliber. You have to be Pujolsian (1.039 OPS) or Bondsian (1.421 OPS) or RyanHowardWhenHeWasHittingForAverageian (1.084 OPS) to win the award…
...or you could be a leadoff hitter with a lot of hits and steals, like Rollins, I guess. But Duncan doesn’t really fit that bill, either.
by mojowo11 on Jul 16, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or...
morneauian (.934 OPS in 2006 MVP season). does duncan fit that bill?
by baw on Jul 16, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
It’s hard to argue when it comes to the MVP award. I’d consider Morneau to be a bad pick for MVP, but nobody asked me, I guess.
by mojowo11 on Jul 16, 2008 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We're talking about partial seasons though....
Sure, Duncan’s had stretches where he’s very good. But doing it for a month isn’t the same as doing it for a season. There’s a reason there’s a difference between Morneau and Duncan.
Afterall, here’s some other players with some very good months:
J. Encarnacion – July 2007 – .893 OPS
R. Ankiel – July 2008 (so far) – 1.123 OPS
J. Vidro – August 2007 – .901 OPS
D. Young – July 2008 (so far) – .937 OPS
And one of my favorites:
Bo Hart – June 2003 – 1.058 OPS
I know with Duncan we’re talking about longer than a month, but we ARE talking about a guy who is typically only put into the lineup against right-handed pitchers and who has now consistently disappeared for significant stretches each season.
I’m not advocating to trade him. I don’t really care one way or the other. But comparing Duncan to Morneau is like taking Bo Hart’s 1st month in the bigs and saying if he could just get back to that, he’d be better than Joe Morgan at 2nd base. It’s blowing things WAY out of proportion.
by mtalken on Jul 17, 2008 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he did it for
a full season’s worth of PA’s, though. From 2005-26 july 2007 he had a .952 OPS over ~640 PA’s. Then he got hurt, and apparently hasn’t yet recovered.
No, you can’t trade him for what the Twins could trade Morneau for, but he has to be treated by our organization as a player with tremendous upside.
"..and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped." -Sir Belvedere
by SleepyCA on Jul 18, 2008 4:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's still two partial seasons
meaning the wear and tear that other players take and play through, Duncan hasn’t shown that ability yet.
Until the All-Star break is several months long, Duncan cannot be discussed in the same way as Morneau.
by mtalken on Jul 18, 2008 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's not like morneau is god
an indisputable measure of his value: i remember picking him up off the fantasy wire in a reasonably deep league near the beginning of his MVP season. at the time, it was like adding richie sexson (or chris duncan); just hoping he would get hot.
the year before that (in 2005), he hit .239/.304/.437 in 141 games.
i have no problem with comparing duncan’s upside to morneau’s. i think they do belong in the same discussion.
by baw on Jul 18, 2008 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
exactly
we’re talking “upside”. I’m not saying “Duncan is as good as Morneau”, I am saying Duncan COULD become as good as morneau. or David Ortiz, another lefty who didn’t break out until well after he was Duncan’s age and a good analogy because he was released rather than offered arbitration by the team he played for during his Duncan-age season. Ortiz finished in the top 5 in MVP votes for the next 5 years after never having a year as good as Duncan’s ‘06 and only the one year higher than Duncan’s ‘07 before his release, at Duncan’s current age.
We would be crazy to just give Duncan away, the way the twins gave Ortiz away. Even if Duncan never reaches his potential, it would be the wrong move to move him for a marginal, short-term improvement on the current team.
"..and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped." -Sir Belvedere
by SleepyCA on Jul 19, 2008 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sleepy, I hope you are right
but I would probably be willing to wager on the MVP thing and give you some pretty good odds. However, I am in the minority that would like to see him get the opportunity to prove it as long as Ank and Lud still play every day.
I am not one of these “win now” guys, so it wouldn’t bother me to see Duncan bat against LHPs the rest of the year even if he stinks. He needs to step up, though. .970 OPS in July sounds really good until you look at .694 OPS for the last 365 days.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 16, 2008 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Per MLBTradeRumors this morning...
The Blue Jays want players that are going to improve this years team in exchange for Burnett.
Straight quote from the site: “The Cards are searching the Triple A ranks for the next Ryan Ludwick. Maybe they were one of the teams inquiring on Nelson Cruz?”
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 16, 2008 1:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I like that idea...
I suggest sending Reyes and another low prospect to Texas for Cruz and Joaquin Arias. The Cards future does not include Reyes, so why not get a couple of guys who could be parts of the future? It seems like a reasonable opportunity to move Reyes and get some sort of potential back. Mo has tried trading him for a while now for big leaguers, and that hasn’t worked. Why not try to find a reclamation project from AAA who could help the team?
by Jumsy on Jul 16, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sounds reasonable
And I would do it in a second. Cruz and Arias have a truck load of potential, and the Rangers don’t have a place for either of them right now. Their offense is top notch, but they really need pitching help. Giving a chance to a kid like Reyes could be exactly what they need.
by stl tyler on Jul 16, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
really?
do we need another OFer? unless we plan on ditching two or three of them in the next year or so, i don’t understand how Cruz would even get a chance in StL. and Arias still has some potential, but he’s never had a minor-league OPS higher than .758, and that was three years ago. he might end up being alright, but i don’t see how he really helps the team now or in the future other than providing replacement-level SS depth. and we’ve already got Ryan for that.
maybe that’s the only kind of deal we can get for Reyes, but it’s nothing to get excited about.
by kindred on Jul 16, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a lot better than...
hearing how we need to move Reyes and then he just sits at AAA. He has no chance of being successful in St. Louis while TLR and DD are around, so find someone who could be an improvement. Arias will provide another option for next season. You don’t dip your sieve into the water panning for gold just once, you dip until you can’t dip anymore and hopefully you walk away with a nice return.
by Jumsy on Jul 16, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From a Rangers (fan) perspective...
I’d think hard about Reyes/well-thought of A-level prospect for Crus and Arias. I’d love to see Cruz get one more shot in Arlington but the way things are shaping up as far as OFs ahead of him, I just don’t think he’ll get another chance. Arias is sandwiched between our current SS and our SS of the future. I think he’ll produce if given a chance.
Saw on mlbtraderumors that the Cards were considering making Rasmus available. I’d love to see him in Texas and wonder what kind of deal we could offer since we have some complimenting needs. A package based around Bradley/Millwood/reliever for Rasmus/parts? I will confess that I’m a Rangers fan and I could be way off on this but I could see Bradley providing the protection for Pujols that he has for Hamilton and Millwood should be able to get back to form in the NL
I’d love feedback on this and feel free to agree or disagree.
BTW, I am a huge Rangers fan but consider the Cardinals my NL team, which is beneficial when the playoffs come around since I haven’t had quite as many Rangers games in October as I would have hoped. Good luck to the Cards and beat down the Astros..
by BombDiggity on Jul 16, 2008 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rasmus won't be traded for any package like that
if he’s traded at all, which is very doubtful, it would only be for a Matt Holiday-type superstar who is under contract or control for several years.
by kindred on Jul 16, 2008 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Rangers
would probably have to give up Kinsler in order to even get Rasmus discussed in a trade, and I don’t think they’re doing that.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 17, 2008 7:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not that I'm encouraging it,
but that’d be an intriguing deal.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jul 18, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*Beware*
trading for hitters who play in hitting Meccas like The Ballpark at Arlington. In Kinsler’s brief career he has a split of .333/.402/.543 at home and only .254/.328/.415 on the road.
For further evidence, Josh Hamilton is .356/.405/.678 in the same park and 269/.332/.437 on the road. Finally, Milton Bradley is .355/.481/.782 at home and .283/.404/.462 away.
That computes to an OPS lift of .202, .314, and .397 at home respectively.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 18, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley's .866 OPS away from home is nothing to sneeze at, though
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 18, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Home/Away splits:
You need to look at Kinsler’s splits for this season, which is the only year he’s been completely healthy since being called up. His away split this year:
.284/.345/.512 OPS – .856 Not exactly chicken feed there is it?
I get really tired of arguing about home/road splits with people - take a measure of every player in the big leagues, and you'll probably find that better than 75% of them have a better home split even if they lay in a pitchers park. It's simply a matter of hitting there more often and knowing the dimensions and batters eye of that particular stadium. Same goes for basketball players - most shoot better at home than on the road.Considering that we have a slew of cost controlled outfielders going into next year, you have to look at moving Rasmus for Kinsler, who is signed through 2013 to an extremely favorable deal. IMO, Kinsler would be a much better upgrade in 2009 than Rasmus would be, because he’s replacing much worse offensive players (Kennedy, Miles) than Rasmus would be (Duncan, Schumaker), and he’s a fairly known commodity at the big league level, whereas we’re not sure that Colby is at this point. We’d like to assume that, but I don’t need to bring up the vast numbers of “top prospects” who piddled out at the major league level.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 21, 2008 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The grayed portion from above
I get tired of arguing about home/road splits. Even players who play home games in pitchers parks usually have a better home split than road split, just because they play there more often and are used to hitting in a park with those dimensions. Similar to basketball players shooting better percentages at home than on the road.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 21, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what?
guys who play their home games in hitters parks have much better home splits than away splits (see; pretty much all the rangers hitters) and guys who play home games in hitters parks usually have worse home splits (see; padres players…especially khalil greene who i advocate the cardinals making a play for).
by lopey986 on Jul 22, 2008 1:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not a single run producer
for the ‘08 Cardinals has a better home split than road split.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 22, 2008 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wrong wrong wrong wrong
Even players who play home games in pitchers parks usually have a better home split than road split, just because they play there more often and are used to hitting in a park with those dimensions.
do you have any evidence of this whatsoever?
my guess is nope. here are splits for the entire san diego padres baseball team—which plays in the epitome of a pitcher’s park.
2008 home: .242 .317 .377
2008 away: .256 .316 .397
2007 home: .235 .310 .378
2007 away: .265 .333 .440
2006 home: .245 .318 .388
2006 away: .279 .346 .443
Similar to basketball players shooting better percentages at home than on the road.
seriously?
by baw on Jul 22, 2008 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
since 2000
Or the first full year the Mariners played at Safeco Field (a noted pitcher’s park), they’ve hit better on the road in all but two years (this season and in 2005).
by jdub176 on Jul 22, 2008 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes seriously
Look up the basketball numbers for the NBA alone—there’s a big difference between home and road.
You’re talking about EXTREME pitchers parks and EXTREME hitters parks. Of course there will be differences in those places, but not a giant enough difference to completely rule out trading for someone who plays in those places. Nobody hits at PetCo. Period. San Diego would be an outlier in this debate. If you look at players as a whole in park adjusted statistics, which is what you should be using anyway, the effect is not nearly as pronounced as you’d like to think.
IMO, you can’t base your opinion of a player solely on where he plays. Just because they play in a hitters park at home doesn’t necessarily mean that they wouldn’t be a productive player in a neutral or slightly pitchers park like Busch III.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 24, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you were talking about ian kinsler,
and he plays in a very “extreme” hitter’s park.
and you’re building straw men again. no one said kinsler wouldn’t be an effective player in a neutral park. just don’t expect him to put up his rangers home numbers, because those may have been inflated. similarly, perhaps khalil greene’s are deflated.
these are the arguments people present when using home/road splits.
I get tired of arguing about home/road splits.
then don’t. because then silly things happen.
by baw on Jul 24, 2008 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And
I said that I’d be happy with his “road split”, although he’s likely to be better than that playing at Busch III. At no point did I ever say that I expected him to put up his home numbers from this year.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 25, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you said,
and i quote, for the second time:
Even players who play home games in pitchers parks usually have a better home split than road split, just because they play there more often and are used to hitting in a park with those dimensions.
This was a false statement, as was shown to you with an example from Petco Park. It’s OK to be wrong… better than digging an even deeper hole arguing (quite strangely, might i add) about what “dimensions” means.
by baw on Jul 25, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BTW
Kinsler’s “road split” is in some of your so-called pitchers parks for the most part—Oakland, Safeco, and Anaheim.
Hmmmmmmm—I think he’d be a .900 OPS player at Busch III and probably right around there playing the NL Central where there are a ton of hitters parks (Minute Maid, Wrigley, GAB)
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 25, 2008 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
got any evidence to back that up?
Or are you making things up?
by jdub176 on Jul 22, 2008 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmm
You say that baseball players hit better in their home parks because they’re used to the dimensions, then you say it’s similar to basketball players shooting better on their home courts….but basketball courts all have the same dimensions….
by jdub176 on Jul 22, 2008 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No they don't
Not even close. The court and baskets are the same size, but the background behind the basket and the lighting differs at each and every arena in college or pro basketball.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 24, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha
I think you need to look up the meaning of the word “dimensions.”
by mojowo11 on Jul 24, 2008 7:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes
There’s certainly a difference between “field/court dimensions” and “playing environment or atmosphere” or whatever.
by jdub176 on Jul 24, 2008 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or...
perhaps you both need to look up the definition of dimensions and stop assuming I’m talking about the field or court….see below
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 25, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
haha
So when it comes to baseball, it’s the field dimensions you’re referring to…and not the backdrop? But in basketball, since the dimensions of the court are the same, it’s the backdrop you’re referring to? What the hell? No matter how you slice the cake, this is a blatant false analogy. Hint: Petco is a pitcher’s park because the alleys are 402ft, not because the lighting is tricky.
You’re talking about EXTREME pitchers parks and EXTREME hitters parks.
Check the stats for Safeco Field, which I referred to above. Its park factors are 96 for pitching and 96 for hitting, which is not “EXTREME.”
by jdub176 on Jul 24, 2008 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Assumptions...AGAIN
Def. dimension—A measure of spatial extent, especially width, height, or length.
Where did I say I was talking about the dimensions of the baseball field? I was referring the dimensions of the park - how the light comes off the lighting stanchions, where the sun is going to play tricks on your eyes, how big the batter’s eye is and how the light reflects off of it at different times during the day. Putting words in my mouth does not prove your argument. Also, if you want to haggle over syntax - make sure you have your definitions right.
You could easily compare similar measurments in ballparks and basketball courts. The baselines are always 90 feet long and the rubber is always 60’6” from the front of the plate. It’s true that most hitters see the ball better in their home park because they know what to expect when hitting there versus somewhere they only play in a couple of times a year. Same is true of basketball players on their home floors.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 25, 2008 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even players who play home games in pitchers parks usually have a better home split than road split, just because they play there more often and are used to hitting in a park with those dimensions.
That’s where you said you were talking about dimensions, and we’re supposed to assume you’re talking about some twisted definition that concerns lighting? That doesn’t make any sense. You provide a definition for “dimensions” but then you proceed to defy it in your next paragraph.
I’d like to do a poll. When you’re talking about baseball, and you hear the work “dimensions,” do you think about the way light hits the batter’s eye, or the measurements of the outfield walls and the amount of foul territory?
by jdub176 on Jul 25, 2008 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
when i hear the word "dimensions,"
i think: in what dimension would fourstick make sense?
by baw on Jul 25, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
be serious
the important “dimensions” of a park are the walls. and, to some extent, foul territory. these strange claims you’re making about light reflecting off of a rally monkey’s ass are barely relevant to the discussion.
by baw on Jul 25, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
also, it worries me
that you took the time to look up the meaning of “dimensions,” and yet you STILL seem to think that somehow a park’s dimensions involve “how the light comes off the lighting stanchions.”
it’s not haggling over syntax. it’s you trying to make a word mean something it doesn’t… in order to escape from a losing argument.
by baw on Jul 25, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MLBTR reporting we may trade Rasmus for... XAVIER NADY???
Please fucking choke me until I die.
Miles in '08
by Zoop on Jul 16, 2008 7:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
where?
i’m looking at the site right now and the only mention of Rasmus is a link to Heyman saying the Cards “might consider” making Rasmus available.
by kindred on Jul 16, 2008 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you click the link in that bulleted list it takes you to an article where it's mentioned
Trading Colby is one thing. Trading him for Xavier Nady is inexcusable. Trading him for Xavier Nady TO A TEAM IN OUR OWN DIVISION is ground for dismissal. Period.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 16, 2008 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rasmus on the Block?
I hate kneejerk trade posts that are not thought out, but I came across this on the SI website:
Overheard at the pre-All-Star Game bash out on Randall’s Island. The contending Cardinals might even consider parting with top outfield prospect Colby Rasmus, a major surprise. If so, it may put them in line to land Pittsburgh’s Xavier Nady, or even Jason Bay.
For who?
It’s important to note that Hayman did not overhear that the Cards would consider parting with our top prospect for either Xavier Nady or Jason Bay. Hence the “If so, it may” language. To me, it seems highly unlikely that (1) Mo would tear down the barrier to Rasmus; and (2) if so, to trade him to an interdivisional foe. This rumor flies in the face of the line to Mo has consistently towed, that Rasmus is untouchable
However, it does harken to TLR’s not-so-sublte language from a week ago:
Cardinals manager Tony La Russa on Wednesday urged that the front office and ownership “use every resource we can” to improve as quickly as possible following significant moves by the Chicago Cubs and Milwaukee Brewers.
It is worth noting as well that TLR nearly immediately backed off that statement, as Bernie blogged (instead of putting in published type). Further recognize that in the same piece where TLR called for pouring every resource into winning this year, Mo took a long-term position in rebuttal:
Mozeliak said Wednesday he can “appreciate where Tony is coming from. But I’m taking a broader view where we’re not going to do something that may hurt us in two, three or four years.”
For weeks I have maintained, as have many others, that it is not an either/or proposition to improve the team. We don’t have to pillage the farm system to improve this team, has been the thinking. If true, this would be an “All in” anteing up by the front office to win this season, sacrificing the most promising and highly touted prospect since Rick Ankiel The Pitcher. All factors, from the talent to the years of relatively cheap production, to me, make this a poor decision for the Cardinals franchise. Rasmus is on the cusp of joining the big league club. Trading him for an OF (of which we have a glut that is producing well) makes little to no sense. Could such a maneuver-Rasmus for Bay or Nady-improve this team this year? Possibly, maybe even likely. But in the near term, it does little to move the organization forward. Colby Rasmus should be off limits in any deal except for one that brings an exceptional MLB talent. I don’t consider either Nady or Bay to be exceptional.
by bgh on Jul 16, 2008 8:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For the Cards to send Rasmus to the Pirates...
We had better be getting back Snell, Bay, Nady, Sanchez, Jack Wilson, Nate McClouth, Doumit, Gorzellany, Duke, Capps, Marte, Grabow, and The Pirate Parrot. It wouldn’t hurt to also throw in those damn Pirogies that race every home game…
by Jumsy on Jul 16, 2008 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mmmm… Noodley potato goodness…
Miles in '08
by Zoop on Jul 16, 2008 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wait...
...Can we throw in Waino and get PNC Park too?
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 19, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am a lifelong Rangers fan
But my Granddad is from St. Louis and always keeps me in the loop on his beloved Cardinals. I see some mention of Rangers players in this thread. To sum them up:
Milton Bradley- Is honestly the best available (assuming he is available) hitter on the market. Has begun playing more and more RF and still has a cannon for an arm. Perfect protection for Pujols.
Eddie Guardado- Everyday Eddie is back. He has been the Rangers’ best reliever all year with a 2.88 ERA and a 0.90 WHIP.
Kevin Millwood- Has been up and down for the duration of his time in Texas. Would benefit from a move back to the NL. Solid #2/3 starter in the NL.
Nelson Cruz- Blocked in Arlington, he has murdered AAA pitching this year. Plus Plus outfield arm with good speed as well.
Joaquin Arias- Struggling with arm issues the last 2 years. Not ready to play SS full time because of his arm. Still has tons of potential and at the least would be ideal in NL as supersub and pinch runner.
I have read about Rasmus “being made available” but don’t think the Rangers are willing to trade what it would take to get him. I do think there could be a match as far as what the Rangers have and what the Cards need. Aside from Reyes what young SP, RP, OF, 3B do the Cards have that could possibly be discussed for some of the above players?
"Here comes the version of Benoit that lets the other team put it out of reach. I hate that version."
-Athos
by SaltyDawg on Jul 16, 2008 8:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Garcia, Boggs, Todd, Mortensen...
... are the top SP prospects. Perez and Motte are the best RP prospects. we have two marginally good 3B prospects in Barden and Freese. we have a major glut of OF. besides Duncan, Schumaker, and Mather on the MLB squad and all of whom are probably available, we have several near-MLB ready guys like Stavinoha and Jay and some further down the pipeline that project pretty well like Jones. Ludwick might even be available for the right price.
but i don’t see why the Rangers and Cards would be trading, unless it’s a marginal OF prospect for Everyday Eddie or something. we don’t really need/want a SP like Millwood who has 2 1/2 more expensive years on his contract. unless we do more of a minor deal, like a marginal SS prospect for a marginal 3B prospect just to improve each club’s depth.
by kindred on Jul 16, 2008 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at 3b
we have Wallace (whom we just drafted and cant be traded until next year I think)
but we also have Craig and Freese. I dont think either of these will be stars but I could see them moved.
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jul 18, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Mo trades Rasmus for a guy like Xavier Nady
then the DeWitts are running their organization like this family.
Seriously Mo has to be smarter than this. Now if they were to trade Rasmus in a package to the Rockies for Holliday…that would be more sane. I just think this is all rumor though…but it does have me concerned.
by KYCards on Jul 17, 2008 4:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
An unfortunate development, indeed
However, I’d even be upset if Mo traded Rasmus for Holliday, given the home/away splits that make a non-mile high team acquiring him a bit of a gamble.
by bgh on Jul 17, 2008 8:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get over the home/away splits already
Holliday is a beast no matter where he plays. While he’d be too expensive for the Cardinals, I’d love to have him protecting Pujols.
by RockyMtnRedbird on Jul 17, 2008 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Eh
I’m inclined to agree with you, but the numbers are pretty consistent. Every single year without fail, there’s a large gap between his home and road OPS (though, FWIW, the difference is getting smaller each year).
CAREER:
Home: 1.086 OPS
Away: .790 OPS
2008:
Home: 1.079 OPS
Away: .859 OPS
I think he’d be very good anywhere he went, but there’s a big difference between a 1.000 OPS guy and a .900 OPS guy…which one is Holliday away from Colorado? Because frankly, that should change what you’re willing to trade for him.
My point is, yes, he’d be a force in the lineup and I’d certainly love to have him. But you can’t just “get over” his 2500 career at-bats and the pattern they clearly show.
by mojowo11 on Jul 17, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NL West to blame?
I would like to see some stats ballpark to ballpark, specifically slugging %. As I’m curious as to how much the big ballparks in the west impact NL West hitters, and thus impact the home/away splits for Holliday. And for that matter, how do they impact other NL west sluggers.
In NL SLG, the NL West is currently 9 (Rocks), 10 (D-Backs), 13 (Giants), 14 (Padres) and 15 (Dodgers). So how much is the players and how much is the parks?
by RockyMtnRedbird on Jul 17, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
You can check out the park factors. I did that not to long ago.
PARK – SINGLE YEAR PARK FACTOR – MULTIYEAR PARK FACTOR
Chase Field – 105 – 106
Dodger Stadium – 105 – 104
AT&T Park – 100 – 100
Coors Field – 109 – 108
Petco Park – 89 – 89
So if park factor is to be believed, Arizona and LA favor hitters slightly. Coors favors them more heavily, and Petco smothers hitters. San Fran is right at average. I think I’m using that stat right.
Seems to me that the teams suck more than anything. The parks, if anything, lean every so slightly in favor of the guys holding the sticks.
by mojowo11 on Jul 17, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's surprising
How about another challenge for you then? Lefty/Righty splits? Does a LH, like Bonds, excel, but a RH, like Holliday, get pinched?
Maybe I’m just digging for an excuse for the splits at this point, but I have a hard time believing that Holliday wouldn’t excel outside the west. In fact, get him into the NL Central with some extra games in Wrigley, Minute Maid park, GAB and PNC and I’d even venture to guess that his home/away splits would reverse. btw Busch III is second on his career homeruns by ballpark list with 5. That would be more than any NL west ballpark.
by RockyMtnRedbird on Jul 17, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holliday in the NL Central Parks
I will say that the NL Central has not been the greatest division in the world the last few years…but given that, here are Holliday’s #s in NL Central parks (for his career):
in STL – .375 avg/.478 OBP/.871 SLG/1.350 OPS/.385 BABIP (39 ab, 2 doubles, 1 triple, 5 homers, 6 bb, 8 k)
in CHC – .229/.339/.313/.652/.270 (48, 1, 0, 1, 8, 10)
in MIL – .304/.385/.543/.928/.355 (46, 2, 0, 3, 5, 12)
in CIN – .237/.256/.474/.730/.286 (38, 0, 0, 3, 0, 14)
in PIT – .313/.361/.469/.830/.333 (64, 1, 0, 3, 4, 12)
in HOU – .297/.333/.378/.712/.333 (37, 3, 0, 0, 2, 4)
So against the competition he’d be facing most of the year (away), he has put up the following numbers:
in 233 at bats, he has 7 doubles, 0 triples, 10 homers, 19 walks to 52 ks and is hitting .279/.333/.438/.771. I don’t know how to figure the BABIP for all 5 of those combined, but I’d guess it’s close to .359 by just taking the Ks out of his at bats and dividing just like a regular batting average.
(all stats from baseball-reference.com)
by stlfan on Jul 17, 2008 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quibble
those fat numbers in STL were almost exclusively at Lake DeWitt – er, Busch II. He’s .300/.364/.400 in a whopping three games at Busch III.
I know Holliday’s something of a unique case as I can’t recall any other very good hitters who left the Rox in their prime, but look at what that park has done for the likes of Dante Bichette, Preston Wilson, and Vinny Castilla. The much beloved Larry Walker only had one .900+ OPS season out of five full seasons before he went to Colorado at age 28. He proceeded to post OPSes of .988, .912, .1.172, 1.075, 1.168, .915, 1.111, and 1.023 over the next eight years.
The humidor has lessened the power numbers some, but it just doesn’t make much sense to obtain a hitter from the best hitter’s park in the league unless you can steal him. I doubt he will be stolen.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 18, 2008 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as all of the numbers and what they say, how about just consider
one very simple thing. I know there’s no way to quantify, but wouldn’t a good, SMART ballplayer learn to make the necessary adjustments to perform in his home park? Couldn’t they make the necessary adjustments to perform in a NEW home park? Look at a guy like J. D. Drew-he wasn’t very good his first year in the AL and at Fenway Park-you can’t say that this year. It sure looks like he made the necessary adjustments…....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 18, 2008 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that the past numbers don't necessarily dictate the future
but I don’t thnk J.D. Drew is a good example. He switched leagues last year and didn’t really hit well either at home or on the road. This year his numbers are up both places.
Your premise seems logical, but it is unrealistic to expect a guy, especially a HR hitter, to make adjustments that completely overcome park factors. Even more so for a guy who has a long track record like a Holliday. I don’t mean to imply they stink or anything, but you have to evaluate their value in terms of $$ and prospects based on your best calculation of what they will likely achieve in their new environments.
Even a great and SMART hitter like Albert Pujols has only managed to hit equally well at Busch III as on the road this year. Last year he hit for a .886 OPS at home and a 1.097 OPS on the road, so it looks like he is making some adjustments. Samples for Glaus, Ludwick, and Ankiel are probably too small to make definitive judments, but they have all hit better on the road so far this year, especially Glaus.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 18, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Crazy Idea
I heard this one the other day when the Cards lost that game to the Pirates by blowing 2 six run leads while there were scouts for the Rockies in the crowd.
3 Way Deal
Cards get Holiday and Fuentes
Rockies get Bay, Rasmus, Perez
Pirates get Reyes, Duncan, and Thompson
Of course, I only heard this in my own head after a couple of cocktails. (needed after that loss!!) I thought…fans from each of the 3 cities would feel they gave up too much in this deal…isn’t that what makes a fair trade? Each team gets exactly what they are looking for. Obviously, there could be some tweaking, but think about from each city’s perspective and you can say that it is bad deal or a good deal.
How about handin' me another helpin' of those mashed taters...thank you very much!
by Elvis on Jul 17, 2008 9:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'd say the Rockies would make out like absolute bandits in that scenario
Giving up a year and 1/3 of Holiday and a 1/3 of a year of Fuentes and receiving Bay, Rasmus AND Perez? Wow.
by Ray Lankford on Jul 17, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For what it's worth
It’s 1.3 years of Holliday.
by mojowo11 on Jul 17, 2008 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Damn
I knew that but didn’t type it properly. My bad—thanks for pointing that out.
by Ray Lankford on Jul 17, 2008 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whoa, no!!!!
So the Cardinals would give up Rasmus, Reyes, Duncan, and Thompson for Holliday and Fuentes. AhhHH!
by stlfan on Jul 17, 2008 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lets face it Reyes, Duncan and Thompson
get us squat other wise. Lets be realistic that trade would be Rasmus and three castaways for Holliday and Fuentes. I would hate to give up on Rasmus, but I would give that trade a lot of thought. Why not Duncan, Reyes and Thompson for Fuentes? They and keep Holliday and we can promote Rasmus to take Duncan’s spot!
by nybirdfan on Jul 17, 2008 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
According to
mlbtraderumors the Giants may be willing to part w/ Matt Cain for “an intriguing package of young talent.” I’d love to have Cain and he would instantly make the team better now and for 2 more years at least. I wouldn’t give up Rasmus but I would offer Anderson, 1 of (their choice) Garcia, Todd, or Mortensen, and either Mather or Duncan and see if they’re interested. It might not be enough, but it’s a pretty good offer for a really good pitcher. A package of, for instance, Anderson, Garcia and Mather ought to at least intrigue them.
by chuckb on Jul 17, 2008 4:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mather or Duncan?
They want Duncan. Everyone knows they’re looking for a LH 1B with power.
Seriously, though, Cain is inconsistent, but he’s dynamite when he’s on. I’d love to have him, but because he’s young I’m guessing he’d be pretty pricey.
by mojowo11 on Jul 17, 2008 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lol?
duncan, garcia and anderson for one of the top 10 pitchers in the NL?
duncan sucks, garcia is a #3 pitcher, anderson is decent. yeah right
by KeepOnRolen on Jul 17, 2008 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is Cain really one of the top 10?
I know he is young and talented but I hadnt realized he was that good yet.
I thought he was maddengly inconsistant or something
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jul 18, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cain is incredible..
He’s put up a WHIP of 1.2ish for the last 3 years.. and he’s only 23 years old. He’s worth a considerable amount more than Adam Wainwright. He went 7-16 last year w/ a 3.65 ERA because no one on the Giants has ever picked up a bat.
And Cain has 2 HRs in 35 ABs = )
by KeepOnRolen on Jul 18, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
double threat
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jul 19, 2008 3:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hmm
I just read the link…looks to me like it’s just speculation on the part of a Philly journalist. All it says is that the Phils are hoping the Giants would be willing to shop Cain. And then it goes on to quote Stark in saying that the Giants had told another team “emphatically, no” regarding Cain.
Sounds like nothing.
by mojowo11 on Jul 17, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How in the world can the Giants move ANY ot their young, cheap, pitchers while they are paying
Mr. Zito a gazillion dollars a year? I’d fire Mr. Sabean if he even looked sideways at Cain, Lincecum, or Sanchez. I really would. I’m sure Barry has about 99% of the money they have allocated for starting pitchers…...
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 17, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sabean
...is an awful GM and should have been fired the second he decided to turn the Giants into the Barry Bonds Home Run Chase Road and Freak Show. I think he’d definitely be dumb enough to deal Cain or Sanchez for a sub-value package. Lincecum, on the other hand, is probably untouchable.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 19, 2008 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Philly journalist
heard a rumor that the Giants might be willing to trade Cain for the right price. I don’t know if it’s true, but that rumor is out there.
“Word is the Giants might part with Cain, who is 5-7 with a 4.06 ERA in 20 starts, if offered an intriguing package of young talent.”
by chuckb on Jul 17, 2008 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously doubt..
giants would trade cain unless the deal included rasmus. he’s a damn good pitcher
by KeepOnRolen on Jul 17, 2008 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cain has...
2.44 k/bb in second half of season for his career, compared to 1.86 in the first half
1.13 whip in the second half compared to 1.33 in the first half
3.28 era in the second half compared to 4.18 in the first half
Sounds like he would be an EXCELLENT addition for a second half run
by Jumsy on Jul 17, 2008 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we can do "intriguing packages of young talent."
I’d like to see us take a shot.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jul 18, 2008 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
move rasmus?
ok for Lirano…he’s coming off an injury it’s a no brainer..but tearing up AAA
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 17, 2008 5:42 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
neither would I
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jul 18, 2008 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
liriano..
has some fatal flaws in his mechanics. he’ll be out of baseball in 2-3 years
by KeepOnRolen on Jul 17, 2008 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Liriano
Liriano is filthy, true, but he’s such a max-effort guy with a bad delivery, who has already seriously hurt his arm once, that he’s just due for another major arm injury. I wouldn’t do that trade.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 19, 2008 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mark Ellis?
What say ye, Cards fans? A’s have plenty of 2B prospects now, and with them selling, why not make a run at Ellis?
Miles in '08
by Zoop on Jul 17, 2008 9:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
the a's..
certainly made ellis a LOT more expendable with the addition of cardenas this afternoon. i don’t particularly like ellis, but he’d be an upgrade over miles.
im guessing the a’s would want todd or mortensen for him
by KeepOnRolen on Jul 17, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not when u subtract what we give to get him.
MIles and Prospect > Ellis. IMHO
by nybirdfan on Jul 17, 2008 11:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm guessing they still plan on keeping him
There’s been lots of talk about contract extensions for him, Patterson isn’t really ready to start every day at 2B in the majors, and Cardenas is still in A ball and probably at least a year or two away. I don’t think Ellis is going anywhere, especially considering he might give the A’s a discount because he likes playing there so much.
by mojowo11 on Jul 18, 2008 8:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Brian Roberts
I was just talking with a guy who works covering the Orioles. He saw my Cardinals hat and said, “It looks like your team might be getting my guy Brian Roberts.” He went on to say that this was purely rumor, but it was rumor running around people close to the ballclub. I take it with a grain of salt, but I still wonder about it. This would be a strange deal for the Orioles because they have young top prospects at both of the two positions the Cards have players at: CF and C. The O’s just traded for Adam Jones to patrol center for years, and they have Matt Wieters just destroying pitching at every level. So the two biggest trade chips that the Cards have are much less valuable to the Orioles than to most other clubs. So do the Cards have enough ammo at other positions (SP, 3B perhaps) in the minors to top some of the trade offers the Orioles saw for Roberts earlier this year, or is this nothing more than a rumor to be ignored?
by Huck Finn on Jul 17, 2008 10:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
When you say "covering the Orioles,"
are you saying the guy is a sportswriter?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 18, 2008 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. He works for MASN.
And I’ll state right up front he’s not like a “higher up” guy or anything, but he seemed very confident in his information. I’ve scoured the internets and seen not a hint of movement on this thing. I guess just chalk it up to rumors run amok.
by Huck Finn on Jul 18, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or maybe MacPhail and Mozeliak
have brought down the cone of silence.
Obviously I wouldn’t make a bad trade for Brian Roberts, but just in general, I think he’s a terrific player and I think he would make a tremendous impact on the 2008 Cardinals.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 18, 2008 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From what I know
vaguely following the Orioles. They could use pitching. Maybe if we just packaged a ridiculous amount of young pitching (but not our top top prospects), that’d be something they’d want. That could be the possible rumor.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jul 18, 2008 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I’d make a Brian Roberts deal today if I could get Luke Scott as well. Give them a pick any two combo of
Adam Kennedy
Chris Duncan
Nick Stavinoha
by REDROBIN1892 on Jul 25, 2008 5:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And I'll take Hamels
If I can have Victorino.
The Phillies can have any two of the following:
Izturis
Chris Duncan
A can of orange soda
by mojowo11 on Jul 25, 2008 9:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
c'mon
we can go as high as a 2 liter bottle, and really, why only 2 of those 3? For Roberts i would be willing to give sacrifice the trio
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 25, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you made it grape soda
you might have a chance
(grape soda > orange soda)
by azruavatar on Jul 28, 2008 9:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe it's called "grape drink"
Or is that only the non-carbonated stuff?
by mojowo11 on Jul 28, 2008 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good question
there’s definitely grape soda but I’m not sure if that would fall in the grape drink category as well.
by azruavatar on Jul 28, 2008 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Purple drank
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 28, 2008 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why don't we make the Phillies' choice easier
and throw in both grape and orange soda as options?
Of course they would probably just take the sodas as options and leave us stuck with Izturis and Duncan
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 28, 2008 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Aside from the unrealisticness of the deal (as pointed out by the two posters above me)
Getting Luke Scott right now would be buying high, not a good idea
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 25, 2008 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Francisco Liriano
Now I’m not saying we should go for him, and I doubt he is even for sale, but why would the Twins keep him in AAA for so long despite an enormous amount of success? I saw on ESPN that he has been 7-0 with a 2.73 ERA in his last nine starts, and I can’t think of any explanation besides the fact that they may want to shop him around. The last thing we need is another pitcher coming off surgery sitting in our bullpen, so I doubt we would make an offer, but does anyone know what’s up?
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it."- Rogers Hornsby
by redbirds8233 on Jul 17, 2008 11:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Interesting that you bring Liriano up
Rosenthal has a column today how Liriano’s agent is looking into filing a grievance. Seams Francisco feels the twins are messing with his arbitration.
If Liriano filed a grievance, he could seek either a restoration of major-league service time, financial compensation or both. His loss of major-league time already will prevent him from qualifying for salary arbitration with three years of service and almost certainly will prevent him from qualifying as a “Super Two” player as well.
He is dominating AAA but I doubt the Twins would move him.
by nybirdfan on Jul 17, 2008 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well looky here! You posted the link thingy......
I got the info from my Minnesota sister…..she’s hopping mad because she never wants to see Livan start another game…....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 17, 2008 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why would she not want to see him
start another game? The guy’s a stud.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jul 18, 2008 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Um, I'm talking about Livan Hernandez-he's the starter Liriano would replace if/when he's called up.
She WANTS Liriano back yesterday…...
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 18, 2008 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Livan?
But he EATS INNINGS!!! He’s such a great innings eater!!! And he’s a winner!!!
Or something like that, right?
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 19, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mr. Liriano and his agent kind of think it's because of his service time.....
They are looking into filing a grievance with the players union.
Best I can find out is that Liriano was no longer on medical rehab, but optioned to work some things out. He apparently was also told as soon as he worked things out he’d be back. I doubt they are shopping him; I bet they are just waiting for their next young arm to either falter or get hurt. On the other hand, Livan Hernandez is really stinking up the joint—and I’d be mad too if I was Liriano looking at that from the minors.
He’s potential ace material-with him already having an injury, I can understand why the Twins would push back his clock; but since he’s a pitcher, with a probable short shelf life, why waste one more minute of it in the minors? Get what you can from him RIGHT NOW!
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 17, 2008 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ya i posted this yesterday
without a link and everyone said no way..cause i mentioned rasmus..haha
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 18, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Twins..
....have been suspected of a similiar move or three in the past, so Lirano’s questioning the situation. He cant prove anything, but calling attention to it might get things moving. He should be in the majors…..2 to 3 weeks ago.
by cardschinmusic on Jul 19, 2008 6:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ANDERSON
I don’t think anyone has spoken about this, but the Marlins are looking for a catcher. Anyone know what they have to offer us for Anderson?
Life is short! Break the rules! And never regret anything that made you smile.
by Section8 on Jul 18, 2008 11:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
They want a ML catcher---they are looking at Torrealba and David Ross. I don't think
Anderson is what they want for now.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 18, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
JASON LARUE!
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jul 18, 2008 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wonder..
how confident they are in skipworth from the 08 draft? he should move pretty quickly.
by KeepOnRolen on Jul 18, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With the way Brett Wallace is playing..
We might not need that Glaus (if sticks at 3rd) or that one Pujols guy.
Wallace is hitting .375 w/ 2 HRs and a 1.080 OPS in the 40 ABs in A ball since being signed.
by KeepOnRolen on Jul 18, 2008 4:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You think Wallace is putting up good numbers...
Lance Lynn is doing awesome too. He’s in Batavia posting a 1-0 record through 3 starts (5 games) and 14 2/3 ip. 1 ER allowed (4 runs total) for a .61 era, 9 hits 3 walks, 15 k, .173 BAA. He hasn’t thrown more than 4 innings in any game though. But it’s a great start.
by Jumsy on Jul 19, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which brings me to..
(this is half-jokingly, because I know if we traded Pujols, fans would be upset)
If a team offered you a huge haul for Pujols, would anyone here do it? What would it take?
Matt Cain/Tim Lincecum for Pujols?
by KeepOnRolen on Jul 18, 2008 4:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
maybe...
evan longoria, carl crawford, and scott kazmir
Rick Ankiel could throw out Chuck Norris. Easy.
by emrfg8 on Jul 18, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and david price.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jul 18, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and then still maybe...
pujols is more than just a stat producing machine, he’ll be a legend. he’s the kind of player you want to represent your franchise.
Rick Ankiel could throw out Chuck Norris. Easy.
by emrfg8 on Jul 18, 2008 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Those 4 players
+ Reid Brignac
and I would trade them Pujols.
That’s about the only kind of ridiculous overpayment that I would accept
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 19, 2008 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would definitely do
Longoria, Kazmir, Crawford and Price for Pujols. That would be a steal IMO, regardless of what you are giving up.
You get an improved version of Rod Carew (Crawford,) a third baseman who should hit something like Chipper Jones, the #1 pitching prospect in the minors, and a completely dominating force in Kaz.
by KeepOnRolen on Jul 18, 2008 5:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
and enragement from fans
huge haul or not fans would be ticked at losing the big guy.
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 18, 2008 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agree
There is no package we can get that would be worth the value of Pujols in terms of his on field playing and his value as a hall of famer icon for the franchise in the same way Musial, Ozzie & Gibson are. Pujols is a once in a generation type of player. If the Cards trade him away that would be beyond stupid on many many levels.
by KYCards on Jul 18, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
unless..
two out of those four become that same type of player that albert is. but why would you risk that?
Rick Ankiel could throw out Chuck Norris. Easy.
by emrfg8 on Jul 18, 2008 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
key word risk...
and also think of Ozzie at the end of his career, what if they would have moved him? for a high prospect and ozzie to a winner for another championship? Cause Ozzie felt he could still play and TLR was playing the young guy over the vet..Clayton. Ozzie is still bent, but what if they would have moved him for a high prospect.
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 18, 2008 8:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally different...
but I see the point.
by stlfan on Jul 18, 2008 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The times they are changin'...
I dunno, this is a different time in more ways than one and economics and player choices will be more of a factor in Alberts longevity as a Card than for Musial or for Ozzie as well.
He SHOULD retire a lifelong Cardinal and as the icon of the franchise, but I can see him DHing for the Royals or somebody for a year or two and then retiring, then on to the hall as a Card.
If it happens, it’ll be because HE wanted it to. With the planters, the elbow, and all the injuries to come, it could go that way.
Will we trade him for a big package in the meantime? I doubt it, unless he wants to go.
by cardschinmusic on Jul 19, 2008 6:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
crawford is not an "improved version of carew"
carew had a 178 OPS+ seasons, 3 in the 150’s, 2 more in the 140’s, and finished with a career OPS+ of 131. Crawford hasn’t broken 120 yet and has probably peaked, since his skills won’t age well. crawford is more like “skip schumaker who can steal bases”. Given the number infield hits that crawford gets, I’m not even sure his steals make up for his IFH% in terms of his overall contribution to a team.
I would make that trade though (duh?) ;)
"..and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped." -Sir Belvedere
by SleepyCA on Jul 19, 2008 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just curious
What does everyone think of the Blanton deal? I don’t really know the Phils ML system. Does anyone know some equivalents on our team? The guys were:
Adrian Cardenas, Josh Outman, and Matthew Spencer.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jul 18, 2008 10:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
A lot to give up for an innings muncher
plus Philly’s park does not bode well for pitchers.
Miles in '08
by Zoop on Jul 19, 2008 12:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cardenas looks to be a good player
but the other two are nothing special.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 19, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you kiddin?
outman looks like he’ll be a helluva player as well….BA rated cardenas as the phillies 3rd best prospect and outman as the 6th in their system. the last rating i heard of had cardenas at 2 and outman at 4. pretty hefty haul for someone like blanton.
by lopey986 on Jul 20, 2008 4:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've heard....
...that Adrian Cardenas is like the 2B for the Indians Asubral Cabrara (I think that is his name) or an Ian Kinsler of the Rangers
He’s offense is better than his defense, but he could become one of the premier 2B in the league. He should be replacing Mark Ellis sometimer next year.
by green321 on Jul 20, 2008 1:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A's 2Bman
Anybody still think that Mark Ellis is going to take too much to get. The A’s have Eric Patterson at AAA and ready to play, Jemile Weeks (they just drafted, playing at SS right now, but long term will be a 2Bman) and the newly acquired Adrian Cardenas. While I’d prefer to get Cardenas, he was the centerpiece of the Blanton deal, so it would take a lot to get him away from Oakland. Mark Ellis shouldn’t cost a lot and should be one of Mo’s targets.
by AP5 on Jul 18, 2008 11:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mentioned this earlier in the thread
Scroll up.
Miles in '08
by Zoop on Jul 19, 2008 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mark Ellis is a glorified Adam Kennedy
no thanks.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 19, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this thread is five days old
Can we refresh it?
by nybirdfan on Jul 19, 2008 7:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
knock yourself out.
It’d be nice to put a little recap of this conversation / areas already covered in the main part of the thread.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jul 19, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Will the Cardinals trade for...
Brett Favre?
by mynameistyler on Jul 19, 2008 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's the name to my Fantasy Baseball Team
SP Brett Favre
Prospects are good. Especially when they aren't rushed.
by CraveCase on Jul 19, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Street to brew crew?
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/07/street-to-brewe.html
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 19, 2008 10:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
nm
its nowdurham
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 19, 2008 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2B Mark Ellis
Mark Ellis a glorified version of Adam Kennedy. Haha, you are looking at the overall stats.
AVG/OBP/SLG
Away: .313/.383/.507
Home: .181/.292/.293
Now look at the Oakland A’s stadium. http://hometown.aol.com/CYCLEMENS8601/images/Bp010d.jpg
Career Averages (Thrown out this year and his first year): 13 Homers, 58 RBI, .9905 Fielding %
That is a lot of foul ground. Can you now honestly tell me that he is a glorified Adam Kennedy. I suggest something like.
Cards Get:
LHP Arthur Rhodes
2B Mark Ellis
Mariners Get:
1B Chris Duncan
OF Joe Mather
A’s Get:
RHP Jason Motte
OF Jon Jay
Cardinals Prospect (Not Anderson, Ramsus, Garcia, Todd, Mortenson, Kozma, Wallace, etc.)
Mariners Prospect(s)
The Mariners are desperate for some pop to their lineup. I believe Duncan’s will return if he can focus on 1B. Mather is a cheap, hitting outfielder to add. The A’s get a good reliever that can help in the bullpen if they trade Houston Street. They get a young hitting outfielder and a couple more prospects.
by AP5 on Jul 19, 2008 11:21 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Are you crazy?
We’re going to give up FIVE players to get two? How does that make any sense? For that load of players we ought to just trade with Oakland and try to pry Ellis, Street, and Crosby away from them for our prospects and Duncan. That would be a deal on par with fair considering what we’re giving up. Beane would probably love to have Duncan given his ability to get on-base. He could play 1B and DH for them next year when someone else signs Frank Thomas to a ridiculous contract.
Hell, for those 5 players we might be able to get Brian Roberts and George Sherrill from Baltimore…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 21, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
roberts and sherill for that package
=unlikely
by baw on Jul 22, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That trade probably wouldn't happen
too many players, too many teams. Not that I know any of the guys in the trade besides Rhodes (who’s crap) and Ellis (A’s 2B).
It’d be simpler for the Cards to just trade directly with the A’s for Ellis.
And thats the Oakland Coliseum PRE-Mt. Davis. Thats from when it was actually a good ballpark… fuck you Al Davis!
facepalm.jpg
by Zonis on Jul 24, 2008 12:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Add in Miles to the deal and make PJ Walters the other Cardinals prospect.
by AP5 on Jul 19, 2008 11:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Cards Reds Trade and Cards D-Backs Trade
Cards get:
2B Brandon Philips
SP Homer Bailey
Reds get:
OF/1B Chris Duncan
SP Anthony Reyes
SP Tod Wellemeyer or OF Joe Mather or SP/RP Brad Thompson
This trade may be outlandish, but the Reds aren’t getting anywhere with there lineup, Junior is older, Ryan Freel is always hurt, and they may see something in Chris Duncan.
Cards get:
SP Micah Owing
1 or 2 Minor League Prospects
D-Backs get:
SP Anthony Reyes
OF/1B Chris Duncan
by green321 on Jul 19, 2008 11:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
dreaaammm
dream dream dream….um this is for that, but Id say watch the DFA list.
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 19, 2008 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pass on Owings
He’s not that great. I think he’s overvalued because he can hit the ball well, his ERA+ this season is only 90.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 19, 2008 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cards/Reds
There is no way they give us Phillips and Bailey for that package. If I’m not mistaken, Walt Jocketty pushed Brandon Phillips into the untouchable range. You said yourself that they aren’t going anywhere, so they have no incentive to trade Bailey.
As for the D’Backs deal, I’m not particularly high on Owing, but I’d be okay with it.
by AP5 on Jul 19, 2008 11:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Just Get rid of them
I just want to get rid of Anthony Reyes and Chris Duncan
We have a good rotation without Reyes and we don’t need the bad fielding, less than average hitting outfielder and 1B in Duncan
by green321 on Jul 20, 2008 1:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How 'bout Huston?
I know we’re all gun shy about trading with Oakland, but this team’s bullpen sucks waaaaaaay too badly to worry about that.
Now, as you may have heard, Billy Beane is trading away everything that’s not nailed down, trading off Harden, Gaudin, and Blanton, and I’d like the Cardinals to get in on the action. We should get Huston Street.
However, he’s having a little bit of an off season, but he’d still be a huge upgrade over the stiffs the Cardinals are sending out in the ninth, and he’s still under team control for 2.5 more years, to boot.
So, who to give up on this deal? Obviously, Rasmus’s name shouldn’t be within ten miles of these talks (1, he’s a reliever, and b, he’s having an off year), but let’s see who we could give up:
Obviously, it would take either two B-prospects or one A-Prospect to get him. Now, I doubt either team would agree to a pitcher-for-pitcher trade, but I think I know a one-for-one trade that would work out great for both teams:
Bryan Anderson.
Obviously, Anderson isn’t going to have a starting job here unless he wants to wait for Yadier to retire in 2019, so he’d make a good trade chip. Also, the Oakland A’s current catcher is Kurt Suzuki, who’s a servicable backup, but doesn’t really stand to be an offensive powerhouse. Anderson, probably even if called up after the trade, would be a better overall catcher than Suzuki.
Maybe if the Cardinals can talk him up enough, they could make it a two- or even three- for one trade.
EDIT: I’ve also heard rumors the Brewers are pushing for him; it’d be even better for us then, as we’d upgrade our bullpen and keep Milwaukee from upgrading theirs.
by craig3410 on Jul 20, 2008 12:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Unless Isringhausen has an epic collapse in the next two weeks,
that deal will not happen. Joe Strauss indicated on the STL Roundtable that Izzy will not be forced to compete with another closer. They would give him a chance to join another club to get his 300th save if that was to occur. The reality is that the trade clock is likely to run out before he does have that kind of collapse, ergo there will be no rationale to do it. I think this includes Fuentes, too, whom Strauss described as a closer—not an uberloogy.
If Izzy was to return to normalcy and they were to pick up a regular LOOGy type, like Jack Grabow, much of the pen problems would recede as each player went back to his assigned role. All that said, I like the idea of another K-Mac (if there is one) to lighten the load. Maybe trade Franklin and some others for a K-Mac type, L-R killer in high leverage situations.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 20, 2008 1:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So, in other words...
They’re willing to let a player play for statistics alone, even though it’s almost guaranteed that it’ll hurt the team’s chances for the division in the long run. Great.
We’re 2 games out and he’s not retiring anytime soon, trade for Huston, make him the closer, and let Izzy get his last 8 saves in 3-run lead situations in the next year or two.
by craig3410 on Jul 20, 2008 3:31 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No, that's not quite it...
the point is that there can only be one closer. If it’s Izzy, then he doesn’t have to suffer the indignity of competing with someone else on his own team for the spot. If it’s not him, then he probably gets offered a trade before someone else is brought in. My own take on it is that since the jury’s still out on him and with Franklin doing an adequate job as fill-in, that the trade deadline will come and go before they decide neither of them are qualified to do it.
I do think it would be great for him to get his 300th save as a Cardinal. I also think it will probably happen, whether or not he is the designated closer at the end of the season.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 20, 2008 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
P.S.
If they want a closer to take Izzy’s spot, though, George Sherrill would be dynamite. Unload the farm for Brian Roberts and George Sherrill and we’d be set for next year at second and closer, with only short to be filled by FA acquisition. Actually, that’s a great idea. I just don’t think think that nut who runs the Orioles would go for it.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 20, 2008 1:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wasnt sherrill just a guy
up until this year?
and I also thought his performance has really tapered off recently.
I may be wrong on both accounts as I havent followed him closely just that ive been following closers vaguely for fbb
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
Dont take me seriously :-D
by jealousblues on Jul 20, 2008 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If i was Mo
I’d WANT to trade with Oakland, for the ego boost of beating Beane. Beane owned Trader Walt, but Mo seems to better understand the intricacies of the game that have evolved/been developed recently.
Pitch Luhnow’s system against beane’s wonder boy (whoever that is now)’s system. Bring it on!
"..and that, my liege, is how we know the Earth to be banana shaped." -Sir Belvedere
by SleepyCA on Jul 20, 2008 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If they want a bullpen arm, they better do it quick.....
The Brewers do not mess around when they go after relief help; they didn’t last year and they won’t this year. They still have a bunch of good players in AA, legit prospects, and a few that are ML ready stuck at AAA. They’ll be able to get what they’re after. That’s the team that gets Street if he’s dealt.
I have said it more than once, (probably more than twice) that they should talk to the Pirates-immediately. They have 3 starters for 5 spots. They have a TBA listed for Monday. They have no starters left to call on at AA and AAA. None. Zero. I even read a quote that they may look at other teams’ AAA starters-that’s the TBA part. They need some arms, and they have lefthanders-LEFTHANDERS-Grabow, Marte, and Burnett in the pen. Throw them a starter or two, one of those guys could be ours. Thompson, Reyes, Parisi, Boggs…..any one, of them would be an UPGRADE because even at their worst, their records are better than the 4-5 starters that Pitts throwing out there. I know the Pirates are in the division but to that I say so what…...
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 20, 2008 1:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Boggs for Grabow
works for me. When was the last in-division trade of any note, though?
by Red in Chicago on Jul 20, 2008 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need a more consistant SS and a Lefty in the Pen
Sure Cesaer is a good defensive SS, but he’s only hitting .235. I would like to see a young middle infielder who can hit consistantly or a steal a base such as Brandon Wood, Angels; Elvis Andrus, Rangers; or Mike Moustakas, Royals.
All 3 of those guys are very young and inexperienced, but they are good, top ot the line prospects.
Angels, Rangers, or Royals get:
OF/1B Chris Duncan
or
SP Anthony Reyes
and/or
anyone else within reason
by green321 on Jul 20, 2008 1:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
To get those three
You’d probably have to give up Rasmus.
I wonder, however, since you brought up the Royals, if we could get Zach Greinke for a combination of Reyes, Duncan, and two others. That would be a sweet trade, I think.
by stlfan on Jul 20, 2008 7:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry...wasn't done, hit post on accident
Living in KC, there is a lot of talk about Ross Gload (1B) needing to leave town, and Billy Butler (also 1B) murders lefties, but isn’t so great on righties. Maybe the Giants aren’t the only team looking for a left handed 1st baseman. :)
Also, their pitching coach (McClure – sp?) does a good job of evaluating talent in a pitching staff, I think. I don’t believe that Hillman and McClure do a great job of putting guys into situations in which they will be successful, but that’s a whole different story. I think that McClure does a better job than Duncan in one facet, and that is letting pitchers pitch to their strengths. That would help out Mr. Reyes tremendously, I believe.
Bryan Anderson (as much as I’d hate to trade him) would be a great fit in KC. They do not have a catcher of the future here in the city of fountains. Olivo is a short-term rental here and John Buck is not hitting, nor catching, as well as the Royals organization believed he would when they acquired him in the Beltran deal. They thought he would be their catcher through the 00’s and beyond, but he is going to be more like a Jason LaRue…decent backup fodder.
Those three pieces would fit well in KC, but I do not know exactly what else would be needed to complete that transaction. Dayton Moore (their GM) has come out and said that no one is untouchable for the right price…however, he also said that the package the Brewers gave up for Sabathia would NOT have fetched Zach Greinke…so I know that those three alone would have no shot to get Zach Greinke.
by stlfan on Jul 20, 2008 8:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would be shocked if Greinke was traded.
Maybe down the road, if they think they can’t sign him. Oakland got 6 players for Haren; Moore gets 6 even better players for Greinke. I don’t see how we do that just yet. It would empty the farm.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 20, 2008 8:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
After seeing today's main page on Garcia...
maybe add him to the mix as the 4th of possibly 6 guys for Greinke since he is one of our top pitching prospects.
by stlfan on Jul 20, 2008 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What happened
to Tony Pena Jr.? IIRC he was a pretty good shortstop. Certainly he would be better than Iz2. Just throwing ideas out there.
"It is easy to be brave from a safe distance." - Aesop
by OKCardsfan on Jul 20, 2008 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
about Pena
This year for the Royals, in 190 plate appearances, he put up a .154/.175/.203 line…for an OPS+ of 1. 1! His career OPS+ is 49 with 17 walks in 772 PAs. He most assuredly would not be better than Izturis.
by jdub176 on Jul 21, 2008 12:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trey Hillman
at one point was told how well TPJ hit last year for the Royals and responded with (and I paraphrase) “With that swing? He got lucky.”
If we’re using golf rules in which the lowest number wins…we take him. If not, steer clear. I’d rather have Miles/Kennedy as a middle infield.
by stlfan on Jul 21, 2008 11:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Whenever Reyes and Duncan are mentioned
as a pair, just insert six-pack of tube socks and a jock strap. Those two have absolutely no value; they are a throw-in on any deal.
by Red in Chicago on Jul 20, 2008 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except I think the Pirates would give you something for Reyes today, toworrow, the day after that.....
They are down TWO starters! They have no one left to try in AA or AAA. Reyes is exactly the kind of player they should go ahead and take a chance on. They won’t give a top prospect, but I bet you could get a player for him right now. Something from their farm, their bench, or their pen. Don’t forget, they are the team that has all of the lefthanded relief guys….....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 20, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cardinals should..
From the Colorado Rockies:
RP Brian Fuentes
From the Cardinals:
P Anthoney Reyes
I bet the Rockies would take the bait for a much younger player
So basically what you are saying is that the absolute most we can get for Chris Duncan and Anthony Reyes is....A HALF FREAKIN CAN OF PRINGLES!!.......I'll take it.
by From the Lou on Jul 20, 2008 6:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i wish that would work...
but everyone wants brian fuentes right now, the cost would be more than reyes
Rick Ankiel could throw out Chuck Norris. Easy.
by emrfg8 on Jul 21, 2008 12:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seriously people...
has “Anthony Reyes” replaced the term “bag of balls?” Why does everyone think he will net the Cardinals ANYONE of value, especially on his own? I’m a proponent of Anthony Reyes, but some of these are just outrageous.
by mynameistyler on Jul 22, 2008 5:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MLB.com
Says that the Cardinals have narrowed it down to Mahay or Fuentes, for our relief help.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 20, 2008 9:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll take Mahay
The cost probably won’t be as high
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 21, 2008 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs