Oh, the Cardinals have a farm...
E-I-E-I-O
Today’s post is something I’ve wanted to do for a long time. It’s an idea I had last season and never really could figure out how to do it well, and it’s fairly time intensive so I put it on the back burner. With the trade deadline approaching, however, and the major and minor league teams at the All-Star break, it seemed an opportune moment to pull it out.
We’re now just more than a couple of weeks away from the trade deadline and the team’s going to be attempting to figure out its needs and which of its minor leaguers it would be willing to include in any deal. Part of this evaluation includes determining which of these minor leaguers will be able to help the big club and to what degree they’ll be able to help them.
At this point I wanted to figure out which Cardinal minor leaguers have had the most success over the first 3 ½ months of their seasons. This doesn’t mean, necessarily, that we’re only evaluating those prospects on most people’s top-10 lists at the beginning of the season b/c it is their performance during the season that changes future expectations. For example, nobody had pitcher Jess Todd on their top-10 list at the beginning of the season but if he’s able to continue pitching in the second half the way he pitched in the first, he’ll definitely be there next year.
The other thing is that you can’t compare a player at Memphis’ numbers to a player at Palm Beach b/c so many things are different – quality of competition, park factors and weather, etc. With that in mind, I wanted to compare all the Cardinal pitchers’ by ERA+ and all the Cardinal hitters by OPS+ to be able to establish which minor leaguers have had the best first halves.
By measuring ERA+ rather than ERA, and OPS+ rather than OPS, we can compare players across leagues. These statistics enable us to compare each player to the average performance in their respective leagues. 100 is exactly league-average. An ERA+ or OPS+ of 120, for example, places the pitcher’s ERA or the hitter’s OPS roughly 20 percent better than the average player. Therefore, we could say that a Memphis pitcher w/ an ERA+ of 120 has been better over the first half than a Quad Cities pitcher w/ an ERA+ of 110 b/c the Memphis pitcher was 20% better than the average pitcher in the PCL whereas the Quad Cities pitcher was only 10% better than the average pitcher in the Midwest League. This would be true despite the fact that the Memphis pitcher’s ERA would probably be considerably higher than the Quad Cities pitcher’s ERA.
This approach isn’t a perfect one, I’ll acknowledge. First of all, ERA+ --- while it is a pretty good measure of how well they’ve pitched --- isn’t a good predictor of future performance. BB/9, K/9, HR/9 and GB rate are all better predictors of the future so while this will tell us which pitchers, for the most part, have had the best first halves, it won’t necessarily tell us who will be better next year or 5 years from now. Secondly, my method for computing ERA+ and OPS+ doesn’t include minor league park factors as that would complicate the analysis more than it was already. ERA and OPS will be affected by the parks in which they play but w/o taking the park factors into account, our measures of ERA+ and OPS+ won’t be as accurate as they would be if they included park factors. Finally, there are problems w/ sample sizes (esp. w/ relievers’ innings) and w/ measuring relievers by ERA at all b/c their poor pitching often affects the previous pitcher’s ERA more than theirs. I know all this and understand it. It’s not meant to be a perfect analysis but it will tell you just how good Todd has been this season and that Clayton Mortensen, despite just less than 30 IP, has done an excellent job at Memphis.
Despite all of the lack of precision, we’re going to get a pretty good idea of which players have been the best over the first half of the season.
The top 10 Cardinal pitchers by ERA+:
| Pitcher | Team | ERA+ |
|---|---|---|
| Kelvin Jimenez | Memphis | 329 |
| Jess Todd | Springfield | 281 |
| Jess Todd | Palm Beach | 230 |
| Mark Worrell | Memphis | 223 |
| Jaime Garcia | Springfield | 213 |
| Nicholas Additon | Quad Cities | 159 |
| Fernando Salas | Springfield | 159 |
| Clayton Mortensen | Memphis | 156 |
| Chuckie Fick | Quad Cities | 153 |
| Matthew Scherer | Memphis | 152 |
Some other notables: Jaime Garcia at Memphis – 117, P.J. Walters – 102, and Ron Flores – 99. That’s right at league average for AAA. Former first-rounders Adam Ottavino and Mark McCormick at Springfield are at 68 and 72, respectively.
Some of those in the table are our best pitching prospects and others, so far, are not though they’ve done extremely well the first 3 ½ months. Despite Scherer’s excellent ERA, for example, his peripherals just don’t provide much indication that he’s a top-flight prospect. Then you look at how good Jess Todd has been, for example. ERA+’s of greater than 200 at 2 levels so far this year. He has gone from fringe prospect to legitimate prospect and, possibly, someone the Cards don’t want to even consider trading this July.
Let’s now take a look at the hitters:
| Batter | Team | OPS+ |
|---|---|---|
| Joe Mather | Memphis | 134 |
| Daryl Jones | Palm Beach | 126 |
| Bryan Anderson | Springfield | 125 |
| Paul Vazquez | Quad Cities | 123 |
| Tyler Henley | Palm Beach | 119 |
| Shane Robinson | Springfield | 118 |
| Jon Jay | Springfield | 116 |
| Nick Stavinoha | Memphis | 115 |
| Francisco Rivera | Quad Cities | 115 |
| Charles Kingrey | Quad Cities | 115 |
I left out Andrew Brown’s (Springfield) performance (127 OPS+) b/c he only had 59 PA’s.
Some other notables: Rasmus – 96 (though he’s been tremendous of late); Anderson at Memphis – 111; Kozma – 103; David Freese – 101; Allen Craig – 107; Tommy Pham – 113; Steven Hill – 111; former first rounder Tyler Greene – 91; Jose Martinez – 77. My personal 2nd favorite (after Rasmus) – Jarrett Hoffpauir is exactly at 100.
The Cards will have to figure out whether or not Freese or Craig might be able to take over at 3rd when Glaus’ contract expires after next season. This helps to give us a barometer on what type of prospect they are. Daryl Jones is clearly finally coming into his own, as (of course) is Mather. These players have emerged, like Todd, as legit prospects. Jones is finally turning tools into performance and this measurement tells us that Mather has been the Cards’ best minor-leaguer so far this season. Anderson is proving that he can hit at any level. Yadi’s hit well this year but his OPS+ is only 96. There just aren’t that many catchers who are more productive than the average major leaguer at the plate. These numbers should only increase Anderson’s potential trade value.
Jay has re-emerged as a prospect after a down year last year. Robinson is emerging also a legit prospect, possibly in the mold of Skip Schumaker, despite the fact that his BB/K numbers have fallen backwards somewhat this year. All he’s done so far this year is hit.
Despite the litany of imperfections I mentioned earlier, I think this is a useful exercise b/c it does help us see how well players like Shane Robinson, Bryan Anderson, and Jon Jay have hit this year. These are guys who are often criticized for their lack of power but, as Schumaker has shown, the ability to get on base frequently is a skill that has considerable value. They may never be stars, but when one can go from level to level and continue to get on base, and hit w/ some extra base power, the organization has to take notice.
As many here know, I’m a big proponent of keeping our good prospects, not trading them for league-average rentals or league-average players w/ large contracts. As the Cards’ farm system has gotten better the past few years, I’ve become an even bigger proponent of going w/ the young guys. Make no mistake, the Cards’ farm system has gotten considerably better. If I had gone on this journey 4-5 years ago, I’d have probably gotten quite depressed in really seeing the lackluster performance of the Cards’ minor leaguers in relation to their peers. Now, 30 of the 54 (56%) minor league hitters I evaluated had an OPS+ of 100 or greater. For the pitchers, 30 of the 57 (53%) had an ERA+ of 100 or higher. More than half of the Cards’ pitchers and hitters have been better than league average so far this season. That’s a tremendous improvement over just a few years, and it’s one that is going to bear fruit at the major league level very soon.
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309 comments
Comments
Sadly
Some of the top-of-the-list guys – Jiminez and Mather come to mind, have been mediocre at best when called up. I agree a farm bird is often to be preferred to an about-to-be obselete rental. Open question – outside of Rasmus and Anderson -who would REALLY excite another club to the extent the other team would part with something useful?
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Jul 14, 2008 7:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Waaaaaaaaaaay too small of a sample size to judge Mather
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 14, 2008 7:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Add to that the fact that he’s been getting the Matt Murton treatment at the big league level (in and out of the lineup, never gets a chance to get a lot of AB’s in a row), and I think it’s very difficult to grade him fairly.
When Rick was called up last year, he was playing just about every game and was given AB’s to see if he could prove himself. I think that if Mather was in the same situation, he’d be a lot better off, but the club isn’t in the dire straights with OF play that it was a year ago either.
Regardless, it’s too early to judge whether he can be an effective hitter at this level, but he’s obviously raking at AAA, so he needs to be given every chance to succeed.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 14, 2008 8:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure I'd say Mather's been "in and out of the lineup"
Mostly just “out” lately
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's
Barton without the dreads and with a lackluster tan.
Well, his lineup appearances are quite similar
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jul 14, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Except Tony actually uses Mather
as a defensive replacement. Go figure.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 14, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe.....
But I don’t think it is too early to say he’ll need to retool his swing to contribute significantly at the ML level.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 14, 2008 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Based on what?
I’ve yet to see anything that suggests that he needs to re-tool his swing—he gets the bat to the ball effectively, adjusts well to off-speed pitches, and is able to foul off pitches until he gets the one that he wants. He proved the last point in the at-bat against the Nationals. He hasn’t seen much major league pitching, but he tore the cover off of it in AAA this season and probably just needs some adjustment time at the big league level, similar to Ryan Ludwick last season. Mather hasn’t seen nearly as many AB’s this year than Ludwick did last June. Once he gets regular AB’s we’ll have a lot better knowledge of whether he can hit at this level.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 14, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
further...
i could have sworn i read this year that he already has made a lot of progress with his swing, which was largely responsible for his power increasing and his emergence as a legit hitting prospect. 2007 was the first year he slugged over .500 ( or OBPed over .350). if i remember correctly, one of the minor league coaches convinced him his approach wasn’t taking advantage of his power potential and he was “swinging like a little guy” or something along those lines. then again, i think i read this in cardinals gameday magazine, which is not exactly the forefront of sports journalism, but they do have some cool exclusives sometimes.
so yeah… small sample size i guess. it’ll be fun to see joe masher keep developing.
by mattybobo on Jul 14, 2008 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he has already started to adjust his swing
When he was sent down after his first call up he shorten his swing.
by Evilfrog on Jul 14, 2008 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Based on the fact.....
That apparently the club told him to shorten it. And maybe he has started the process, but he still has a very long swing, with alot of holes in it. I’ve heard 2 different sets of announcers say that, and I’ve seen the swing with my own eyes.
Mather will never be an everyday starter on a playoff team. I’m pretty sure of that. I don’t know why so many fans want to turn run of the mill prospects into potential All-Stars.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 14, 2008 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know why
so many are so quick to toss our prospects aside before seeing what they can really do. You might be right about Mather but I’d kind of like to find out for sure before tossing them in the trash heap.
by chuckb on Jul 14, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
everytime I hear about his swing being a detriment to what Mather can do, I want them to go tell Glaus.
Them: “Glaus, do ignore the 2375 total bases you’ve gathered over the length of your career. 8 away from 300 homeruns? Oh well. Your swing is long, therefore “turning you into an all-star” isn’t likely”
Glaus : “Um, Hoss? I’m a 4 time all-star”
Them : “Hush you, don’t kill my mojo”
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jul 14, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nobody said toss him in the trash heap.....
But why expect the kid to do something he’s never been suggested to have the tools to do?!?
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 14, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Garcia
Jamie would be the first person to come to mind. A left hander that has shown he can dominate, at times, the higher levels of the minors is a pretty rare and special thing. even if his ceiling is as a #3 those things dont grow on trees.
Jess Todd would have to draw some intrest too with the way his has pitched in a hitters league, in double A anyways.
"Baseball is like church. Many attend, but few understand." -Wes Westrum
by nomar34 on Jul 14, 2008 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have always wondered...
every year somebody gives an award to the organization that has the best collective winning pct. among it’s minor league teams( I don’t ever remember the Cardinals winning this, though perhaps I am wrong)...does anybody have a sense of whether this is any barometer of developing major league ready prospects or is it just a bragging rights kind of thing?
by tbell61 on Jul 14, 2008 8:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think Baseball America does that...
I remember looking at it last year, and the idea of using winning percentage is a mixed bag. At the AAA level, the teams that often win are teams with AAAA type guys, or veterans trying to catch on again with a team. Most interesting to me are the records at AA because it seems that the current thinking is to advance your top propsects for a year there and think have them jump to the major league roster the next season. Off the top of my head, Bruan and Longoria both did that.
The single A levels and below, winning means nothing really its about dvelopment of players and giving a good show for the fans so they come back.
In short, my opinion would be that award means little to nothing.
by Brock20 on Jul 14, 2008 10:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think
it has a lot to do with how good the farm system is overall, but a good barometer to look at, IMO, is whether the A and AA clubs are at or around the .500 mark. Even though they are developmental levels, I think it’s safe to say that good players, even while developing, win a lot more games than bad ones do. If you have a lot of good players in your system, generally your teams will win a few more games at each level than the competition.
The important thing is player development, however, and winning or losing records really don’t tell you how well your system is developing players—they mainly just give you an overall idea of how much talent there is in the system, imo.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 14, 2008 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wins/Losses
Today, Bernie opines about the Cards’ illogical record. As per usual, he cites the blown saves, injuries, etc. but also points to why the Cards are winning. His first-listed reason (even though the reasons are in “no particular” order:
Pitching coach Dave Duncan’s rotation has surprisingly held up for a 40-23 record and a 4.13 ERA. Year after year, Duncan squeezes terrific results from makeshift rotations.
Addendum: The starters’ ERA is 4.07.
Citing a starting rotation’s win/loss record is indicative of about nothing and ironic in this column, given the fact that Bernie complains about a streaky offense and a bullpen with 20 blown saves. The reason being is that there is no more arbitrary a barometer for measuring a starting rotation’s effectiveness than wins and losses. Whether or not a starter wins or loses is as much dependent on what the offense and bullpen do after the starter exits as to what the starter does (unless he throws a CG).
Lets just focus on ERA. The Cards’ 4.07 starting rotation ERA is good for 12th in the bigs. They have a record of 40-23. For comparison, the LA Dodgers have a starting rotation ERA of 4.02, but only have a 28-37 record. There are many reasons to praise the starting rotation-especially after each of the last two seasons-but citing their win/loss record in support of their effectiveness is something that ten-year olds do when trading baseball cards. Bernie should be pointing to other stats that are actually indicative of performance.
by bgh on Jul 14, 2008 10:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Look,
that’s a perfectly viable opinion, and I don’t want to come off as a jerk or anything, but do you have any idea who newspaper columnists are writing for? You can say they should try to pull the level of their audience up, but that’s not the way it works. Columnists write to the level of their audiences. And guess what? Bernie isn’t writing for people who know how to calculate VORP. To the casual fan, win/loss records matter. We can argue about whether or not they should all you like, but the fact is, they do.
Why don't you just make like a tree, and get out of here?
by the red baron on Jul 14, 2008 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Basically I agree.
But I’d like to add that while casual fans put too much emphasis on W-L records, sabrticians (IMHO) don’t put enough emphasis on it.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
by Zubin on Jul 14, 2008 10:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's something to what you just said
but you’d be hard pressed to find many people around here that would give you the time of day about it.
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How much emphasis does it merit?
I’m more than willing to discuss this. That’s part of the reason I brought it up.
by bgh on Jul 14, 2008 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am not sure how to quantify it
But my basic points are
1) The offensive output of a team (in a game) and the team’s pitching are not completely independent. Undoubtedly pitcher’s react to the overall game situation.
2) In general pitchers are more than hitters able to “up” their game.
3) Like everyone else, to extent we have to judge what they do against the resources they have.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
by Zubin on Jul 15, 2008 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would also add in support of W/L
that it seems a good measure of a starting pitcher’s effectiveness with the team for which they play. A pitcher that is winning a lot of games isn’t necessarily a good pitcher, but it seems to me that in order to win games they must pitch effectively for the defense behind them, the offensive production that they regularly get in support, and how the bullpen supports their starts. Additionally, their home ballpark, and/or divisional ballparks may play to their strengths.
To me, a guy like Lohse is very valuable to the Cards, because of his W/L record. I know that 11 wins doesn’t mean he is better than all pitchers with fewer wins, but at the end of the day whip and k/bb ratio doesn’t get you to the playoffs or win the WS. If your team can win games consistently with pitchers of lesser talent, why pay top dollar for “aces?”
by MotherTruckinSteve on Jul 15, 2008 2:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
W/L is why...
...we got Jim Edmonds for Kent Bottenfield.
Why feed the ignorance? There are tons of other reasons to praise Duncan that fit right into the shorthand, CW on why he is a good pitching coach. They are throwing strikes, walking fewer players, and working longer into games. Or, you could go player-by-player. Looper has dropped his ERA from 4.94 to 4.25 in his second year as a starter under Duncan (who saw his potential as a starter to begin with). Kyle Lohse, a career 4.70 ERA pitcher, has been reborn under Duncan, lowering his ERA to 3.39. Welleymeyer, too.
I’m not saying that Bernie needs to write a column about the W/L stat should be thrown out the window (although it would be hilarious). I just don’t see why ignorance was be fed. You can make the argument in support of the rotation’s work without bringing up W/L record.
by bgh on Jul 14, 2008 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with Bernie's statement
is that he doesn’t explain why the starting rotation has been so good. They’re walking fewer people, they’re getting a lot of ground balls, and the Cardinal infield has been turning a lot of those ground balls into outs, something they didn’t do a year ago. Win/Loss records are ok to state in a column like this, but without qualifying them by stating observational, not statistical, information that anyone can see when watching a game, it makes it sound like W/L record is good statistic to use when comparing pitching staffs when it truly is not.
In other words, use it to bring fans in, and then explain why that record is so exceptional and give fans watching games something to look for that can be reasons for that success.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 14, 2008 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Offense & Bullpen
I agree wholeheartedly, but did a poor job of developing my point. If you are going to praise Dunc, then show how his philsophy of throwing strikes and pitching to contact is working for the rotation using the stats you list above: strike %, groundball outs, and defense. For context, you could compare them to the last 1.5 seasons’ horrid rotations.
Another problem is that Bernie cites inconsistent hitting and bullpen woes as reasons why the team’s record defies logic and then goes on to use the starters’ W/L record as a reason why we are winning. As I stated, perhaps convalutedly up above, a rotation’s W/L is very dependent on factors outside of their control, namely offense and the bullpen. Perhaps he could have stated that the record would be even better, but the bullpen has lost 20 games, blowing would-be “wins” for the starting pitcher. (If one insists on using W/L records.)
by bgh on Jul 14, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Careful...
Adam Kennedy, who at the time was a prized prospect, was also included in that deal.
If you are going to replace W/L in the average’s fans mind you need a stat that is easy to explain and that they can grasp. One thing I’ve noticed over the past year, at least out here in Boston, is that OBP is now prevalent on all Red Sox broadcasts and is even on the jumbo tron at Fenway.
Why? Because the ownership and management of the Red Sox pushed it as their prime objective and it easy to explain to the average fan as to how to calculate and why it is important. They can get it and get it quickly.
I don’t see anything on the pitching side that rivals OBP in that regard. Quality starts are bs, and the average fan would agree to that. If they were to lower the number of runs allowed to two, I think that might be a good measurement but again I’m just brainstorming here.
I do think the growth of fantasy baseball has pushed WHIP into more people’s minds, which I think is a good thing. Again, I don’t think its a perfect measurement of effective pitching but it is a start. I would couple of it with K/BB to which going back to the forties baseball people ahead of the curve (no pun intended) were looking at as a metric.
Branch Rickey consider that his number one metric in looking at pitchers and hell if it is good enough for Branch, then it is good enough for me.
by Brock20 on Jul 14, 2008 11:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
To be fair, it was talked about all post season last year by the networks holding the games. Though I guess it helps when Manny and David are OBP’in like crazy
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jul 14, 2008 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, AK was included and proved to be the Angels' best part of that deal
I don’t mean to diminish his inclusion, but he was still a bit far off at that point and Bottenfield was highly touted after his 18-win season (even if there was nothing much else to get jazzed about). I believe that Bottenfield’s inflated value made the deal palatable and that Walt leveraged him at his absolute highest value for Jimmy Baseball. I count my blessings that he did so even if Jimmy is now disregarding his Cardinal history while wearing royal blue pinstripes.
(As an aside, I forked over more than I’ve ever paid for tickets to get seats behind the Padres dugout when Jimmy was a Padre, so I could sit behind the dugout and show my appreciation for him. Was that ever a miscalculation…Nonetheless, I’m very excited for this weekend’s series.)
Rickey used K/BB or W/L? I’m a bit unclear.
by bgh on Jul 14, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What did Edmonds do to tick u off?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on Jul 14, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not ticked off
I just found he and TLR’s little tiff a bit saddening because I found it to be below each man.
It’s Padres management that ticked me off when they DFA’d him, causing me to miss his return to Busch (or should I type “InBev?”).
I’m not really angry with anyone, to be honest, just lamenting the twist of fate that prevented me from missing Edmonds in St. Louis one last time (even if he’s not wearing the birds-on-bat).
by bgh on Jul 14, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This great game has some wonderful surprises at the all star break......
Our own Cardinals are performing in ways that were not expected when the season began-we discuss that all the time. There are some things you might have missed, though…..
Ian Kinsler is becoming a household name.
Chad Billingsley is the best young pitcher no one has heard about.
Okay, great for you Josh Hamilton—but what about Milton Bradley and his season?
Tim Lincecum is the most fun to watch…...and he sure has electric stuff.
Kudos to Justin Verlander for turning around what looked like a really bad season.
Quick. Who’s the Oakland pitching coach? He has gotten magnificent performances from pitchers hardly anyone has heard of.
The Minnesota Twins are in contention. Huh?
The White Sox traded smartly-yes they did, and stuck with some young arms, and Brian Anderson-they are in first place. Carlos Quentin is going to be an MVP candidate-maybe even this year.
The Yankees all look old at the same time. The young starters weren’t ready for prime time-but how about Mike Mussina’s year? He’s a neat guy. I’m gald he could turn it around.
I admit I love Manny being Manny-but keep your hands to yourself-no pushing teammates and travelling secretaries allowed.
Next time you feel bad about injured players, go look at what has happened to the Nationals. They’ve lost 2 outfield starters, 2 infield starters, a closer, and various other role players to the DL. They didn’t have a very good team, but there’s a reason they have been soooooo bad.
The Seattle team-ugh. They sure made a lot of mistakes putting that mess together.
Baseball ought to be ashamed about the condition of the National League West. How did all of those teams get so bad?
Prediction: Home Run Derby Winner=Grady Sizemore
AL beats NL in 10 innings 5-4
That’s all folks…..I probably should have started a diary…..sorry, Houston Cardinal, but I just don’t want to clutter it up…Peace out.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 14, 2008 11:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice
I’m surprised Kenny Williams isn’t more highly regarded. I thought the Danks/Masset for McCarthy trade was brilliant last year and it’s looking like it this go around.
Carlos Quentin was a guy I was really happy the Cardinals were going after a coupla years ago. Williams was smart to pry him away.
by liam on Jul 14, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Kenny is a good GM
but the comments he makes in public make him seem to be more lucky than good.
Well who the hell can see forever?
by Alxfritz on Jul 14, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will credit him with having a good eye, a very good eye,
on what players will work best in his home park.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 14, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's made some good moves...
But he’s made some bad ones as well, like trading for Orlando Cabrera and his huge contract.
The McCarthy for Danks/Masset was one of his finer moments for sure, although McCarthy has showns signs of being a pretty decent pitcher when healthy. Arizona just needs to be slapped with a fine for giving up on a talented OF prospect like Quentin when they were already short on good bats to begin with. There were probaby a lot of GM’s looking to trade for Quentin, because he was on the block all winter long—I think Williams just got lucky on that one.
Ozzie deserves as much or more credit for this club’s success—occasional press tirades aside, he’s shown that he can be a good situational manager and can properly motivate veterans.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 14, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quentin
I think Zona gave up on him due to injury and they had good young OF depth…. It’s not like Quentin could have gotten consistent AB’s in Zona.
Besides the Dbacks and Sox have traded in the past so they have a relationship. The sox sent Chris Young to the Dback for Vazquez.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 14, 2008 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Orlando Cabrera is a free agent after this season.
So is Jon Garland. I see it as a bad contract swap for a bad contract swap. I doubt Garland re-signs with the Angels. I also doubt that Cabrera re-ups with the Sox.
Not even mentioned is Alexi Rameriz—now that was a coup by old Kenny, no?
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 14, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're getting to be a real sexpert, Jills
by ridgesee on Jul 14, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please. You are combining Sox/Expert, right?
I follow them because they come on TV free with my cable package. They really are a fun team to watch….oh, and my husband grew up a Chisox fan.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 14, 2008 12:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No,
actually, I was comparing the fairer sex with expert.
by ridgesee on Jul 14, 2008 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay, I guess?......
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 14, 2008 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oooo
I wish we could get Kinsler on our team somehow! he’s on one of my fantasy teams, and he’s been raking. I watched some of the Cubs game where Lincecum was shutting them down, now that was a lot of fun to watch for sure! not only does he have electric stuff, he looks like he’s having a blast throwing it. I’m sort of surprised the Twins are in contention, but more surprised that the White Sox have been in first place for most of the year. and M. Bradley’s performance has been a huge surprise.
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2008 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that's why they play the games........
I am even surprised that Bradley has been healthy enough to start the season…...he has missed time here and there, but thus far avoided the DL. He’s an all star to boot…..good for him. He’s one of those intense folks-the things that make him so good also make him so bad. I think he’s really been embraced in Texas, and it’s probably helped him stay CLOSE to emotionally balanced, that and the fact other players are in the spot light there too.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 14, 2008 1:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and no one would have guessed
that Ludwick would be an all-star… the Cards are one of the biggest surprises. and I’m proud of Ankiel, there’s just so much perseverance going on with that guy
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Watched the
Future Stars game yesterday and I can’t tell you how good it feels to have a few of the young Birds there.
Todd walked the first guy he faced on four pitches but got the next two out. The second was a strike’m out throw’m out double play. He gets some good sink on that fastball. He has instantly became my favorite prospect since I found out he’s from Kilgore TX and went to Kilgore CC. The only reason I’ve even heard of this tiny town in East Texas is because my younger brother was a cheerleader there for a year.
Salas worked his three batters in order but I wasn’t very impressed, looks like a smoke and mirrors type of pitcher. If he has the command to do that great but his stuff looks average at best.
Anderson walked on four pitches and was stranded at first but he did look good catching. I was impressed that he went out to the mound to settle down the Rockies prospect when he started losing it, he seemed to handle the pitchers well. Just wish he had gotten more then one at bat so I could see what his swing looks like.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Jul 14, 2008 12:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice....thanks for that. I didn't get to watch.
I’m one of about 5 folks that DOESN’T want Anderson traded. At least not yet…..
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 14, 2008 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jill
I don’t want him traded…yet and maybe not at all. However, I have been impressed w/ the improvment Yadi’s made at the plate and am resigned to the fact that the current admin loves Yadi on an almost cult-like level. At this point, I’d rather see Anderson go than Todd or Garcia but, if I had my way, I’d keep them all for the time being.
by chuckb on Jul 14, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think what we do know about him, is that he can hit.
We know he’s very young for his level, we know he has made improvements defesively, and how he handles a pitcher. (you can watch MILB tv archived games for free if you want to watch-he’s very agile, makes stupid mistakes with passed balls, but doesn’t look clueless either) I mean, he could be the next Maurer or Martin type, no? Yadi’s made real strides as a hitter, but I just worry if he goes down. I’d rather have Anderson waiting in the wings than go with LaRue or Mark Johnson for any prolonged length of time..not to mention, are we sure what his worth is yet? I hope they keep him, at least for this season.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 14, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't want to trade him either
I’ve told people, if we are going to trade a catcher, why not trade Molina, who has demonstrable value and would likely bring more in return, and take a chance on Anderson? I don’t mean this year. I don’t think Anderson is ready. But I wonder why Anderson’s name comes up so often as trade bait (I’m talking to you, Dan McLaughlin). At least consider the other option, if we feel we can’t carry two good catchers.
by Youneverknow on Jul 14, 2008 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They would NEVER consider trading Molina.........
Mr. LaRussa would have a stroke…...
The Indians kept Kelly Shoppach around. Turns out they needed him…....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 14, 2008 12:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You sure don't think much of TLR or Duncan.....
Why should Tony want Molina to be traded? He’s still relatively young, is pretty much a perfect defensive catcher, has learned what TLR and Duncan want, and NOW he’s even hitting the ball well.
We’d be fools to move him.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 14, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What could we get for Molina?
We’ve gotten so used to trading prospects for established major leaguers under Jocketty that it’s almost as if we have forgotten that you can also trade good players for good players, giving both teams a chance to fill a need.
The Keith Hernandez for Neil Allen deal turned out to be a great trade for the Mets, but part of the reason Herzog was willing to make it was to create room for Andy Van Slyke on the team. Why else have the minor leagues? he asked. I’m looking at this situation similarly—your top prospects give you flexibility with your established players.
As I wrote above, I don’t think Anderson is ready, and that is just based on what other people around here are saying. I would not put Yadi on the block this season. Maybe not even next year. But if Anderson really is a major league catcher (something the club has to evaluate), maybe his bat makes up for him not being one of the top catchers in the league. I agree with you that Yadi is at the top. But do we need the top defensive catcher to win? Or merely a good one?
All this is predicated on the thought that trading Yadi brings more in return than trading Anderson now or even next year.
by Youneverknow on Jul 14, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Anderson
Even if he doesnt turn out to be an actual GG type catcher with his defense. If he can hit like Martin, and field comparably, he’ll win the GG anyway. (tongue in cheek, firmly)
I’d rather not see Anderson or Yadi traded, at least not yet. We know what we have with Yadier, and are beginning to see what Anderson is capable of. Lets not rush either of them out the door in favor of the other until we KNOW what weve got total package wise.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 14, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
looks like you are a real shexpert
(i combined ‘shoppach’ and ‘expert’)
by baw on Jul 14, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love.....
To keep Anderson around, but realistically, he’s the only hitting prospect (aside from Rasmus) that we can really package as a potential star. Maybe the young, raw OF down in A ball (I think) too, but he’s still got a ways to go.
I hope management values him, or overvalues him in any potential trades, but if he is the piece that needs to go to get us a bat that will contribute for a few years, I say move him.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 14, 2008 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think
that Anderson’s trade value has yet to reach it’s peak. Let him rake in AAA for at least another year (barring an injury to Yadi). He seems to be the second coming of Joe Mauer; I would hope could get max value out of him when we inevitably trade him.
Do Work
by iwannarock24 on Jul 14, 2008 1:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'm an Anderson fan
but let’s not get carried away. He’s not Joe Mauer. He’s likely to be a solid-hitting catcher w/o much power. Like I said above, if he could carry an OPS+ of over 100 at the major-league level, that would make him among the top 6-7 catchers in the game but he’s not going to be a star unless he develops power—and there’s really not been much indication of that.
by chuckb on Jul 14, 2008 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to keep Anderson
and just have two great catchers next season… but if there’s a good trade to be had, I don’t think anyone should be untouchable, save maybe Garcia and Perez, and maybe McClellan.
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2008 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not trying to get carried away
But I think Mauer and Anderson is a semi-valid comparison. Mauer has 40 career homeruns in 4+ season with a career OPS of .856. Mauer’s career high OPS in 2008 was .939. It seems to me like Anderson has the potential to at least approach that kind of production at the big league level.
Do Work
by iwannarock24 on Jul 14, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's likely to be a left-handed Yadi
w/ less defense. Makes for a hell of a platoon partner though.
by azruavatar on Jul 14, 2008 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
according to jeff gordon
Jarrett Hoffpauir, 2B: He is batting .301 at Memphis, but the Cards have a big surplus of middle infielders. This kid doesn’t offer speed or power, so it’s tough to project him as a major league starter. He is behind Brendan Ryan, who can run and play multiple positions.
I wouldn’t mind using the Hoff as a throw-in, but to claim we can trade him because we have a ‘big surplus of middle infielders’ is crazy
by Glowsticks on Jul 14, 2008 1:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree & disagree
Ok obviously the MI is not very good for the Cards, however it sounds like Hoffpauir is worse than any player right now so how exactly does keeping him around really help?
I could understand if the Cards had Chase Utley in AAA it would be ridiculos to say since we have such a surplus of MI help we might as well trade the guy.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 14, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Gordon is such a knob
why the hell would he consider David Freese untouchable? He’s a nice story - St. Louis kid and all - and Glaus is only under contract through next year, but he’s hardly bashing the ball all over AAA, he’s 25, and has never been considered, by anyone, to be a top prospect.
Hoffpauir is right now better than Adam Kennedy and it’s not too much of a reach to say that, if there’s no external improvement in the Cards’ middle infield situation, Hoff and Ryan should start next year at 2B and SS. It wouldn’t be a great middle infield by any stretch, but it would be better than what we have right now.
by chuckb on Jul 14, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's just shy of an...
.800 OPS right now in Memphis after putting up a combined .880 between Spfd and Memphis last year. I’m not sure what his translations are, but I bet they’re better than Kennedy’s .679 OPS…somebody care to provide?
by cardzfanbub on Jul 14, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i don't know.
I dont’ think the Cards have any MI in the system that excites me…..... Pete Kozma is a ways off so it’s not really fair to count him.
I don’t know if I would says that Hoffpauir is better than Kennedy as much as Houston made it seem. Neither are that good so who cares?
by ICbirdfan on Jul 14, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would like the Cards to have one MI who can hit.
Right now Aaron Miles is by far the best middle infielder hitter on the team and it’s not that close.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 14, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't say that...
any of them excite me either…I was just sayin Hoff is better than Kennedy. Add to that he is more likely to improve than Kennedy with age in his favor. Now if AK keeps up his line from the last month of .359/.388/.531 – .919 OPS (68 PA’s) you can consider me totally off of his back. He still needs to learn how to take a walk…
by cardzfanbub on Jul 14, 2008 5:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
.690 OPS
and .247 EQA
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/minoreqa.php
It’s difficult to argue w/ such a cogent argument provided above but …
he has more BB than K (as opposed to Kennedy’s 1:2 BB/K ratio) and 30% of his hits have gone for extra bases (as opposed to Kennedy’s 21%). Now, of course, we’re talking about 2 different levels of competition but there’s little doubt that Hoffpauir would be at least as good as Kennedy, for about 9% of the price of Kennedy. The problem is that we’d have to release Kennedy and we’d end up paying him anyway, but over the next year and a half, Hoffpauir would be better at 2B than Adam Kennedy.
by chuckb on Jul 14, 2008 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And he has done.....
NOTHING to make me think he’d outperform Kennedy in the 2nd half of the season if he were to be called up.
Don’t confuse “is better” with “has the potential to be better”. If he were so good, he’d get called up. Or traded. You probably said the same things about Ryan last year, and look at his numbers? Not anywhere close to what would have been predicted for him.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 14, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention.....
Kennedy has been playing VERY well over the last 1.5 months. I doubt JH would produce at that level any time in the next year or two.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 14, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Neither will Kennedy
do you honestly believe that, after 8 terrible months, Kennedy is suddenly a new ballplayer. He’s hot…period and still terrible. He doesn’t belong on the team or, probably, in the majors. I’m not the one who’s confused about anything. There’s little question that Hoffpauir’s potential, though meager, is better than Kennedy’s but his present is as well. He would be, there’s little doubt, at least as good as Kennedy at 1/11th the price.
Also, don’t make assumptions about what I might or might not have said about anybody. Ryan’s numbers are worse than I expected but I never really thought that he’d be anything more than a utility player on a good team. Regardless, the Ryan analogy (such that there is one) is wholly irrelevant. Hoffpauir will probably never be an all-star, but he’s better than Kennedy—even if right now he’s only better b/c he’s so much cheaper. Down the road, he’ll certainly be better.
BTW, I suppose that using your analogy, Rasmus, Garcia, Todd, and Mortensen are not good b/c they haven’t been called up and haven’t been traded, huh?
by chuckb on Jul 14, 2008 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kennedy plays good enough defense to play in the majors
just look at Izturis
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2008 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hoffpauir costs his salary plus Kennedy's
if you are wanting to get rid of Kennedy and play Hoff. The Cardinals are paying Kennedy this year no matter what, so by replacing him with Hoffpauir, the salary goes up.
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2008 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
8 terrible months?
What are you smoking?
March/April:
.314 average, .364 obp
May:
.161 average, .224 obp
June:
.311 average, .358 obp
July:
.400 average and obp
I don’t know about you, but I can live with all of those except May.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 14, 2008 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why?
We know he was VERY bad last year. He’ll admit it. TLR will admit it. Heck, his own mom would admit it.
The original post I replied to was saying that Hoff would definitely be better than Kennedy TODAY. I disagree with that, and last year proves nothing.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 14, 2008 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
because you can't project Kennedy's future based off of
3 months this year.
That’s where the 8 months is coming from.
by azruavatar on Jul 14, 2008 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you think.....
His last 8 months, dating back to last year, is a better indication of what his 2nd half will be then the 3.5 months he’s played this year? I don’t understand that, nor do I agree with that. We all know Kennedy stunk last year. But in his entire ML career, he’s never had another season anywhere near that bad.
I’m not a big saber guy, or stat guy, but if you want to play that card, a season like last is often referred to as an anomaly, and removed from consideration.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 14, 2008 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not to mention
the 5 years prior to 2007, in which his worst season was an 81 OPS+ (he has an 81 now, praise the Lord). I didn’t realize he had recovered to that degree.
2007 does tend to look like a bit of an anomaly, given his career; an 80 OPS for the rest of this year/next year isn’t a crazy guess. He did deal with a pretty serious injury last year, though he’s said it didn’t affect his hitting.
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jul 14, 2008 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
better is not the word I'd use
but you can’t just discard data points like that. It does have a role in what our expectations to be just like his 3.5 months this year do.
by azruavatar on Jul 15, 2008 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry for another reply to my own post.....
Kennedy essentially had one terrible month, and nearly 3 months of well over .300 hitting.
Some of you complained about Miles. Now that his numbers are good, you have to look elsewhere. Iz and Ryan are the two that are bringing things down. I’d play Miles and Kennedy 75% of the time in the 2nd half.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 14, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree that I Hoffpauir isn't really better than Kennedy
but let’s be honest about Kennedy who was terrible all last year as well. He’s been a bad hitter more often than a good one in the Cardinals uniform.
Hoffpauir needs to show more power or he’ll get heaters down the middle in the majors. I don’t think he’s ready for the big leagues but his peak is probably (and I gag a little when I say this) Aaron Miles with more walks. I, personally, was way to high on the power outburst in AA last year. He’s very much in the Brendan Ryan mold of not quite good enough but not awful either.
by azruavatar on Jul 14, 2008 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dear god
I can not handle Brendan Ryan and Jarret Hoffpauir as the MI next season! Sorry I don’t care if they are cheap I want to see more talented players….
I don’t care if Hoff is as good or maybe slightly better than Kennedy at this point because Kennedy is not good, so comparing the two is worthless.
STL needs to find a way to get better MI talent next year and the system does not have the talent to fill from within.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 14, 2008 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's a pretty glaring weakness
the only real impact player that comes to mind is Rafeal Furcal but with his injury who knows how he’ll be next year.
The impact player I thought the Cardinals should have gotten last offseason (Adam Everett) has been a bust due to injuries. Not sure if they are of the flukey variety or not. . .
by azruavatar on Jul 14, 2008 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adam "All glove, no stick" Everett?
Impact player? Very, Very good defense, but zero offense.
We already have a SS that has that.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 15, 2008 3:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep.
Everett was a 4 win player in his prime. He was without a doubt an impact player because of his defense.
by azruavatar on Jul 15, 2008 7:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Orlando Hudson?
He isn’t and “impact player”? I guess I would need you to define what you mean by “impact” then. Hell, Placido Polanco would be an “impact” player compared to what we have right now!
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 15, 2008 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2 terrible months
from April 1 to May 30, his OPS was .579. And you’re cleverly omitting last year’s 6 terrible months.
Is this the new math?
by chuckb on Jul 14, 2008 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm combining March/April.....
And I don’t give a FLIP about last year. We all know he was terrible last year, but that has NOTHING to do with this conversation.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 14, 2008 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
last year's stats are
entirely relevant to any kind of statistical projection.
by azruavatar on Jul 14, 2008 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nope
Not when that population is entirely off the grid of what the player has done over a lengthy career.
I don’t remember what his reason was last year (injury, etc), but we all know that wasn’t AK last year. He may not be Chase Utley, but I see NO reason at all his numbers would fall to anywhere near what he did last year. In fact, I’d be willing to bet his 2nd half matches his 1st half, nearly identically. Save some major change in playing time.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 14, 2008 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yadi's OPS+ is 104
http://www.baseball-reference.com/m/molinya01.shtml
He’s been having a very good year with the bat
by Glowsticks on Jul 14, 2008 2:08 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yadier molina, above-average major league hitter
... that’s just strange. awesome, but strange.
by mattybobo on Jul 14, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know it
Average may be an overrated stat, but it’s still great to see Yadi with the 8th best average in the National League. Definitely an unexpected but very welcome development.
Do Work
by iwannarock24 on Jul 14, 2008 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His slugging would probably be higher if he had some more speed
Legging out some of those singles into doubles or doubles into triples, etc. Or maybe even an infield single or two.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It is almost hysterically funny watching the flying Molina brothers try to leg out a hit....
they run like they have cement blocks for shoes…...it is what it is….
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 14, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't Yadi have the most infield hits on the team this year or something crazy like that?
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 14, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yadi....
My god I wish he was faster…....... That’s my only complaint about Yadi
It must be hard hitting behind Yad at times. I bet he could cost you about 5 hits a year due to his lack of speed.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 14, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am just saying.....
Let’s say Izturis hits a ball in the deep hole and the SS would have no chance at throwing Iz out, well Yadi could still get forced out at 2B due to his lack of speed…..
It’s not a big deal maybe only 2-3 times a year a play happens like that where if Yadi were faster he could be a throw or two.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 14, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yadi's costing himself 5 hits...
or the guys hitting behind him?
by jdub176 on Jul 14, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
actually
I think he may lead the team in infield hits. That’s what they said on FSN the other night, so take it with a grain of salt.
by jdub176 on Jul 14, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some very well placed balls I'd guess
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yadi, the second coming of Wee Willie Keeler
You gotta love that.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
by Zubin on Jul 14, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
About Yadi's hitting
this will seem odd, but purely on anecdotal evidence, it is almost like he only pulls the ball at PNC Park. Every other park in baseball, he sprays it to right-center field but at PNC, he loves to hook it either in the air or on the ground right between SS and 3B.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 14, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
post was done almost 2 weeks ago
before I went on vacation. It was 96 then. He must’ve had a good couple of weeks.
by chuckb on Jul 14, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yadi is actually incredibly fast
this is all just a clever scheme. He’s saving his true speed for Game 7 of the World Series where he’ll get on in the bottom of the 9th in a tie game. Then go Willie Mays Hayes and steal 2nd, 3rd, then home.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 14, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Albert is in the NL AS starting line-up as DH
1: Hanley Ramirez, SS, Marlins
2: Chase Utley, 2B, Phillies
3: Lance Berkman, 1B, Astros
4: Albert Pujols, DH, Cardinals
5: Chipper Jones, 3B, Braves
6: Matt Holliday, RF, Rockies
7: Ryan Braun, LF, Brewers
8: Kosuke Fukudome, CF, Cubs
9: Geovany Soto, C, Cubs
SP: Ben Sheets, Brewers
by KYCards on Jul 14, 2008 2:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
except for the huge hole in CF
with the incredibly mediocre player who should be replaced by one of many more deserving players.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 14, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome!!!!
I was hoping he’d be the DH… although perhaps Berkman should have been, but this way Pujols doesn’t have to play the field (although he’s a better defender more than likely)
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah! Stick those two Cubs at the bottom of this lineup!
I’d probably switch Berkman and Pujols, also Fuku and Soto, but that’s a stout lineup. Too bad we have to endure Fuku out there.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hurdle forgot
he could have used another Cub in the lineup. Lost opportunity.
by Youneverknow on Jul 14, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Berkman should be the DH
and Pujols should be at first. Maybe Hurdle can’t do that, but the team would be better. It’s about winning now, right?
by chuckb on Jul 14, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, Ben Sheets is a free agent after this season......
Would we? Could we? He is a very fine pitcher, an ace. Me, I say we at least call his agent…...
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 14, 2008 2:27 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well he has an injury history
I’d say that puts us in the running at least :P
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we will have enough money freed up
after this season to be able to compete for him. However, probably would get outbid by some outlandish Zito-like contract from the likes of the Yankees, Red Sox, or Cubs. It seems like those three and a handful of others are almost always in the discussion for every big free agent that comes about. His arm will probably fall off in 2 years anyway.
Do Work
by iwannarock24 on Jul 14, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
too injured, too expensive, and he turns 30 Friday.
by chuckb on Jul 14, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
none
He has no injuries to shoulder or elbow to my knowledge. Seem to be all fluke shit
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 14, 2008 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As tempting as he is...
and he is VERY tempting, do we really want another injury prone pitcher after this years debacle?
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 14, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But unlike our pitchers
he has a tendnecy to come back and actually pitch.
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Has anyone else noticed
That all eight participans in the HR derby are white boys? Not to bring up a racial TESS, just found it interesting.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 2:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I did notice this
very strange indeed.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 14, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
something to do with Yankee Stadium?
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The derby is great fun to watch but secretly I hope(not so secretly now) that no Cardinals
participate in it. It can distort a swing or injure a player…I wouldn’t want Albert to re-injure his calf.
mattnj
by mattnj on Jul 14, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pujols was hinting that he wanted to be in it
but MLB didn’t ask him….
by KYCards on Jul 14, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I noticed that too
You would think with MLB trying to reach out to the African American community they would have Milton Bradley in there. But to be honest most of the HR leaders this year are white.
by KYCards on Jul 14, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would think Ryan Howard would be in there
but he didn’t make the team….neither did Fielder
by KYCards on Jul 14, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not even just black
there are no latin ballplayers in it either. This after a few years in which we had the Dominican player bringing flags out onto the field during it.
It’s just very strange that Prince Fielder, Ryan Howard, Jermain Dye, Carlos Lee, etc did get in but Justin Morneau and his 14 HRs did.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 14, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or Hanley Ramirez
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think a lot of guys turn the offer down..........
I thought I heard Albert say he would love to participate if asked..
Who knows maybe he or someone else told him not to participate. I think guys really enjoy watching but no one really wants to do it when it comes down to participating. It’s just like the Dunk contest…....None of the big name guys want to do it.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 14, 2008 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder why A-Rod turned it down
Too cool for the room I guess? You would think he would do it this year because it was going to be at Yankee Stadium.
by KYCards on Jul 14, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A-rod turned it down because he was worried it would hurt his swing...so he passed
mattnj
by mattnj on Jul 14, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if I buy that excuse
Albert participated in 2005, did pretty well and he certainally was not hurt by being in it.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 14, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My theory on why some of these guys are in the HR Derby this year
is because MLB is trying to establish some new stars in guys like Longoria, Braun & Morneau. They are trying to get these guys to become household names…which is good for the sport.
by KYCards on Jul 14, 2008 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But Morneau was in it last year
I remember becaues my Twins fan friend told me that “Pujols [was] gonna eat Morneau’s jock strap” in the derby. Then Morneau didn’t do shit and Pu made it to the finals.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure I get that whole Dominican thing with flag waving..
In NY on Memorial day…I saw a few wearing…I love DR…well? Call my comment what you will, its annoying as all hell…I guess they love the US too, they live here…I guess we should just assume that. Speaking in generalizations only…but it is noticable.
mattnj
by mattnj on Jul 14, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I just don't understand why its annoying
I mean, my friend went to NYC last year and occasionally wears one of those famous “I [heart] NYC” T-Shirts and it doesn’t annoy me even though we live in STL.
Not trying to start a political debate . . . I won’t comment any more on it.
by Ray Lankford on Jul 14, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm gonna have to wave 4 or 5 different flags if I want to be represented...
I guess because it was Memorial Day. Everyone is off because it is a National Holliday(for serving and fallen soldiers).... and you want to show everyone how proud you are that you are Dominican(not American)...uhhh? OK!...for all I know their brother/son could be over in Iraq fighting for his citizenship…who knows?...but it seems kind of lame. I will refrain from further comments. I’ve said my piece.
mattnj
by mattnj on Jul 14, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i see your point
especially if you have had family in the servcie, or even to a more serious note fallen in service. I would tend to let it go but I could see on that day how they could have picked another shirt..but maybe they were visiting.
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 14, 2008 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TESS?
seen this acronym a couple times recently, what does it stand for?
by mattybobo on Jul 14, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Testicle-exploding [fecal matter] storm
See the 7/12/08 postgame thread for more info :D
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the home run derby is so lame this year
I’m not going to even watch it. the all star game will be enough, heh
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Uh, no
I don’t watch the home run derby. Today is an off day for me.
by Youneverknow on Jul 14, 2008 2:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Oops. That was supposed to be a reply.
(I told you it was an off day.)
by Youneverknow on Jul 14, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jarrod Washburn
MLBtraderumors.com says that the Mariners are looking to shop Washburn mainly as a salary dump and not for prospects. His contract runs through 09 and he’s due 14.4MM.
Also, as discussed before, Arthur Rhodes could probably be had. I think he’s a better option over Fuentes or Marte since the Rox and Buccos have a very high asking price.
Thoughts?
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 14, 2008 2:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If I was Mo I would take a flyer on Washburn
he is a career American Leaguer that might find new life in the NL with the help of Duncan. I would trade for him…Rhodes as well. Plus they are both vets and could help us for the stretch run….I hope Mo is at least looking at these guys…and they won’t cost us the farm.
by KYCards on Jul 14, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that contract?
That’d basically eat up the majority of the expiring contracts we have going into next year. Would you rather have Washburn for a bucket of balls now or sign Furcal in the off-season?
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jul 14, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I want no part of Furcal
he is way too injury prone to sign to a large contract. When he’s healthy yeah he’s a great guy to have…but the injury risk is too big for me.
As for Washburn…I would think Seattle would have to eat some of that contract…if they are going to trade him…if somebody else wants to pay for his entire remaining salary..then they can have him.
by KYCards on Jul 14, 2008 3:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not
even a fair comparison. I’m not in favor of trading for Washburn, but it’s a non sequiter to say that we’d be choosing between him and Furcal—and Furcal may not play baseball again this year either.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 15, 2008 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be happy with Washburn
His numbers have improved after a dismal May. He’s been very effective in interleague play. He’s reliably durable.
Our farm system’s gotten deep enough in several areas, especially players who can competently roam CF (and hit better than Willie Bloomquist), that we could probably get ‘em to eat some dollars.
Here’s hoping Bavasi’s replacement is as big a nincompoop.
by liam on Jul 14, 2008 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i like washburn too, but he is owed $10.3 million next year
if you are right and the M’s will eat some of the $$$$, then maybe. but if the cards add that contract to their current obligations, it creates a $35m rotation for next season —
carpenter $14m
washburn $10m
pineiro $8m
wainwright $2.6m
wellemeyer - $1.5m
man, i hate the 2nd year of that pineiro deal . . . . .
by lboros on Jul 14, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I wasn’t too excited about that pineiro signing when it happened. one year would have been fine though
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget the buyout
of Mulder to add to that rotation.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 14, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and clement gets a buyout, too.
not only do we have to pay him for this year, but we gotta buy him out, too.
by tom s. on Jul 14, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They're pretty atrocious
in the outfield and, of course, DH especially if they trade Ibanez, like they should. Their AAA OF consists of Balentien, who’s got power to spare but isn’t hitting for average, and minor league free agents.
If we could get them to pick up 2-3M for a package of Joe Mather (who can hit for average and power, plus play all three outfield spots, including CF, competently) and Stavinoha, who I’d see as an improvement over Vidro right now, I think it’d benefit both teams.
Heck, Reyes should be OK in Safeco.
Speculating on what it could take is pretty useless, but I imagine we could get a package to them that would be valuable enough to save them from having to spend at least two-three million in free agency for next year. We’ve got good players now who are blocked, and they’re blocking good players at lower levels.
by liam on Jul 14, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
next year
a lot of people (media types) are pushing for an extension for Lohse. i’d much rather add Washburn for this year and next (even with his contract) than sign Lohse long term. I think the cost would be about the same, but the Lohse commitment would be longer.
However, hopefully we can get Rhodes and Washburn from Seattle for a couple of mediocre prospects and get them to eat a few million of salary so that the cards still have some breathing room in terms of payroll.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon
by DJ87 on Jul 14, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hate the first year of the Pineiro contract as well.
Do you really think Washburn is an upgrade over Boggs? I’m not so sure he is given the chasm of a park he plays in.
by azruavatar on Jul 14, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Boggs is actually an upgrade over Washburn
An ERA+ of 82 with Safeco as his home park? Yikes! His WHIP is rather scary too. Please give us Boggs or hell, Reyes before Washburn.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 14, 2008 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here, here, Matty
It is even more lopsided when salary is factored in (as discussed above).
by bgh on Jul 14, 2008 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
AZ, for the rest of 2008 i do think washburn is an upgrade
to use prospect lingo — boggs has a higher ceiling than washburn, but washburn has reached his ceiling while boggs is a ways off from reaching his. i was pretty unimpressed w/ what i saw in his stint in stl — aside from the kc game, he looked extremely vulnerable. boggs only turned pro 3 years ago, and he just isn’t a finished product yet. he walked about 6 guys per 9 during his stint in st louis, while striking out about 4 men per 9 — i realize that doesn’t accurately represent his level of talent, but it might accurately represent his current level of expected performance.
as for washburn, he really isn’t that bad —he’s been hurt by poor defense (.322 BABIP, which is 40 points above his career average), but his FIP is 4.35 in a DH league -- that’s right in line w/ his career norms. his k rate, bb rate, hr rate, and gb / ld rates are all solid. put him in front of a decent defense in a non-dh league and he’s a reliable innings eater - and you can’t say the same for mitchell boggs at this stage of his career.
by lboros on Jul 14, 2008 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Washburn would almost certainly be helped by the outfield defense
but he’s allowing 23% of his BIP for linedrives. I think batters are squaring up on his stuff better. He’s lost a mph on his fastball and his cutter speed is deterioration too.
There’s about 70 games left - let’s call it 14 starts @ 6 innings a pop. Washburn has a FIP of 4.35 - I’ll even give you 4.00 in the NL, which is probably overly generous. Without dwelling on it, let’s set replacement level for whatever misfits the Cardinals send to the rotation (Thompson, Boggs, Garcia, Parisi, Reyes) at 5.50 FIP. That’s 37 runs for Washburn and 51 runs for the scrubs. Not even 2 wins in the standings. And I think you can make a strong argument that the Cardinals can get better than a 5.50 FIP from their replacements and Washburn isn’t a 4.00 FIP pitcher.
Add in the contract and the cost in prospects. . . I just don’t see him as more than a win upgrade and I don’t think a single win is the difference between us and the playoffs. Especially not at that price tag.
by azruavatar on Jul 14, 2008 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Waiver Wire
The bad contract can be a blessing in disguise, It allows you to trade for the guy after the 31st deadline and take it to the August trade deadline
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 14, 2008 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just say no
to Washburn. Low K rate, low GB%, and high contract. His only virtue is a pretty good BB rate. They’d have to eat A LOT OF MONEY and take little in return for this to be a good deal for us.
As for Rhodes—maybe for a fringe prospect. You’re right that he shouldn’t cost much.
by chuckb on Jul 14, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You gotta wonder, though...
what’s his repertoire? Does he have a decent 2-seamer that he doen’t throw enough? He might be a guy that would fit in very well with Duncan like Lohse and others before. A K-rate of about 6 is not great, but is really league-averageish. He also averages about 6IP per start for his career.
by cardzfanbub on Jul 14, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His K rate
is 5.1 - right around his career average and Duncan’s had success w/ pitchers who throw ground balls. Washburn’s GB% is 38.2 % - again, right around league average. I don’t think he improves our rotation at all, and costs us significant dollars.
by chuckb on Jul 14, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I've have to say it.
The Brewers get CC Sabathia
The Cubs get Rich Harden
The Cardinals get Jared Washburn.
THE Jarod Wasburn? Um, he’s not a virus or anything, but he’s not even close to being the kind of pitcher you’d call a difference maker. Am I missing something? I guess if you can’t upgrade the pen, adding a starter to eat more innings might be useful. A. J. Burnett is more of a difference maker-except even he has games where he gives up 7-8 runs. He’s been more than a little erratic this year—-really good, or really bad, and he brings an injury history too.
I’m for picking up a reliever or two, and signing Ben Sheets in the off season…...hey, I can dream, can’t I?
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 15, 2008 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd definitely take a flyer on Washburn if you could get him cheaply
as well as Jose Lopez. But not for that ridiculous package that someone on USS Mariner came up with.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 14, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would love to See lboros et all. do a piece on "possibly available pitchers"....
because they are so much better at the research than I am….and you know the Cardinal front office would read it!
mattnj
by mattnj on Jul 14, 2008 3:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
took a look 2 weeks ago
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2008/6/26/559166/the-market-for-pitchers
i was just looking at it, re-checking something about jarred washburn . . . . there are some other names floating around out there now, including aj burnett and tim redding
by lboros on Jul 14, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Burnett seems like a logical choice
and as Peter Gammons said last night during the game, AJ would probably like to be a Cardinal and would avoid opting out of his deal if some team guaranteed him through 2011.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 14, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Indeed
I’m sure I’m not the only one who saw that Burnett openly admitted to wanting to be a Cub because, according to him, Chicago lives and breathes baseball (I guess he’s getting tired of Toronto not caring).
If what you want is a strong baseball environment, the Cards have that, too…
by mojowo11 on Jul 14, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That was a surprising comment
from the kid from Arkansas.
by liam on Jul 14, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why is that?
Chicago is Cub crazy….. STL is nice but let’s be honest it is probably more fun playing in Chicago especaially when the Cubbies are wining.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 14, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mostly I was saying that
because he grew up rooting for the Cardinals.
But Wrigley isn’t a very forgiving place for pitchers, both in terms of park factor and fan fickleness… They booed Marmol off the field the other day after worshipping him for the past year. Not that STL fans have much to their credit in that department of late.
by liam on Jul 14, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear ya......
I don’t think STL is a bad baseball town by anymeans. With the Cubs on nationally people everywhere are Cub fans, it does not really matter where you live as the Cubs are on your TV alot.
by ICbirdfan on Jul 14, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at the same time
there’s Cardinal fans everywhere too because they have a rich history, etc.
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It can be overwhelming though
Last year Cliff Floyd (native of Gary, IN) said it was the toughest place to play in that he’d ever been to. And he played in New York. He said the fans are too fanatical and that you ended up worrying about ever single play from the first pitch of the season through October.
Granted, some players like pressure. But I think more often they don’t want to feel like they’re playing under the worlds biggest magnifying glass and that’s what wrigley field has become.
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fans at Card's games actually know what the score is
That can usually only be said about the visiting team’s fans in Wrigley.
by birdo rojo on Jul 14, 2008 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
guess he's never been to St. Lou
Would the Cubs still pursue him or are they done dealing for pitching now that they have Harden?
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 14, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do the Cubs have anything significant
left in their farm system to be able to trade for him? I’m not sure they could do it – even if they wanted to.
by TNTinCO on Jul 14, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vitters, Pie, and......
........ yeah, good point.
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
Seriously... what were Rich Harden's parents thinking?!?!?!
by stltrav09 on Jul 14, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Burnett's agent re-iterated last week
that he’d be opting out to get the current market money.
by sdrone on Jul 14, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What is the current market money now
anyways?
Burnett makes $12 M each year until 2010.
Zambrano makes $18.3
Peavy makes $17.3.
Jason Schmidt got $15.5
Santana got $22 M.
So, he wants anywhere from a $3 M to $10 M a year increase? Ain’t gonna happen. He’s a very good pitcher but he isn’t Zambrano, Peavy or Santana. Especially when teams will be looking to throw $18 M at Sabathia and Sheets. He might get a $15 M increase, but the Cardinals could simply guarantee him a new contract of $13 M a year from 2009-2011 with a $6 M signing bonus.
But, as we’ve seen with Burnett…he’ll take the money and pitch in Siberia.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 14, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
playing the last couple of years in
Toronto may have changed his tune some. OTOH, he will turn 32 before next season starts.
by chuckb on Jul 14, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't think Redding's going anywhere
Column by Boswell in WaPo today commending the Nats’ SP-Lannan, Bergmann, O. Perez, and Redding-for all having ERAs under 4.00. Plus Zimmerman’s back soon.
Of course Bowden might deal from his strength to get some OF.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2
by gocards62 on Jul 14, 2008 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And that would probably mean Jon Rauch or Saul Rivera........
versatile relief pitchers is something about 10 clubs need right now.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 14, 2008 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think that is the exact reason they should trade him
they are 16 games out, no chance of postseason play, probably 2 or 3 years away from being a legitimate contender. Tim Redding is not going to be a difference maker for that franchise in the future, unless he suddenly becomes the kind of pitcher he has never been his entire career.
If I was Bowden, I would flip him for the best prospects I could get.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 14, 2008 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
InBev
Is the buyout of A-B going to change anything about the Cardinals? I know they had no ownership anymore, but will it change anything about the stadium name or even things like playing the theme song during innings?
by saladdays on Jul 14, 2008 5:17 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
its not like the brand name is going anywhere
so while i have no specific knowledge, i would guess no, it wont change a thing at the stadium
by FunkeeC on Jul 14, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it might
They might decide selling the naming rights is a good investment.
by Evilfrog on Jul 14, 2008 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it might what?
they are not going to change the name of brand name of the products that they just spent 52 billion or so to buy. now does that mean that the OWNERS will decide to sell naming rights to someone else? maybe
by FunkeeC on Jul 14, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
doesn't the team
own the stadium? The brewery doesn’t, I don’t think.
by chuckb on Jul 14, 2008 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or is the stadium named after August Busch? He's not changing his name to August InBev
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
guess that depends on how much of that 52 billion going in his pocket
lawl
by FunkeeC on Jul 14, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not named after him
it’s named after his grandfather.
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2008 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i think the name is probably safe...
but then again, look at jacob’s field in cleveland… i mean, progressive field. gross.
by mattybobo on Jul 14, 2008 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If my memory serves me well
Sportsman’s Park (the original Busch Stadium), was renamed Busch because the commissioner( at the time would not allow Gussie to name it Budweiser Stadium because, well, they were prudish back then . Gussie then decided to name it after himself, which just so happened to be the name of yet another beer AB sold at the time.! That was his way of giving the bird to the commissioner’s office
So it really is a matter of opinion as to if it is named after the man or the beer.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 14, 2008 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That i am not aware of
I do know that for a while, #2 was offically called Busch Memorial Stadium, but I think they changed the name at some point in the late 90s, although you will see it still called that at times.
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2008 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
October, 1964
has a section talking about this. From that story, you’ve got it right, except that he didn’t introduce Busch Beer until after he’d gotten the stadium named.
Crafty old coot.
by liam on Jul 14, 2008 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just knew my Grandpa had to get some of the details wrong
but what would you expect, he is a Stag Beer man. I shouldn’t knock him for that, it is a decent beer. The fact that I owe my obsession with Cardinal baseball to him and my father is probably another reason not to knock him.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 14, 2008 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Judging from your posts Saturday night
I think it’s safe to say you got more than just your love of the Cardinals from gramps.
jk. It’s all in fun. Besides, that thread never happened so I don’t know what I’m talking about.
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2008 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I stayed about 45 miles away from that thread
Saturday night. I could imagine what it was like. I’m not big on game threads, anyway, but that one . . .
The stuff of legend? A night that will live in infamy?
by Youneverknow on Jul 14, 2008 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was actually pretty tame
just people being silly and laughing about the game.
But, once again, I have no idea what I’m talking about. That tread never happened. I had a dream there was a thread, but it was just a dream.
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2008 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what thread?
i dont remember any post game thread
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jul 14, 2008 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the point today
Jeff called DeWitt and got a quote saying they have a pretty long contract for the naming rights to the stadium. It’s gonna stay Busch Stadium for a while.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 14, 2008 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't trust Gordon on this issue.
Or even DeWitt. He hasn’t even talked with InBev. (admitted in that artical.) He also didn’t say they couldn’t change the name. Im pretty sure the Cardinals own the Statium. But A-B Owned the Naming rights. I don’t think that InBev will change it to something stupid like InBev Statium. But I wouldn’t be shocked if they sold the naming rights to the Highest bidder in 2-5 years.
InBev exist just to make money. They are not a pridefully company. They didn’t build a product from the ground up. They didn’t come from this area. They don’t care about it. (example; the fact that the plan on cutting 1,300 jobs are soon as tomorrow.) The exist to buy the lowest priced ingrediants and sell the beer for the highest price. They won’t pay about market value for thier hops/Barely.
And I serouisly doubt that they care about some Baseball’s team statuim’s name. Hell I doubt if any even know how many players on a baseball team. You guys are kidding yourselves if you don’t think they’ll change it if they can.
by Evilfrog on Jul 14, 2008 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But I'm sure they understand what brand recognition and advertising is
While stadium naming rights are expensive, they really aren’t compared to the amount of advertisement the company gets out of the deal. I don’t know what A-B pays for the stadium name, but I believe U.S. Cellular pays the White Sox 3 million dollars a year to name the stadium. That is a freaking bargin.
Plus, the amount of city backlash they would take by doing so with hurt their company. St. Louis is one of the few markets in the U.S. where the King is actually the King. To lose that market would be unwise.
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2008 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Excellent response
if Busch were the flagship brand instead of Budweiser, the argument would be even stronger.
by random on Jul 14, 2008 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thats something that didn't occur to me
It wouldn’t surprise me if, down the road, we saw Budweiser Field. Then again, I wonder if a name like that would meet approval by mlb? Busch, Coors and Miller are all family/company names. Budweiser is a brand.
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2008 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2025
Naming rights were extended for 20 years
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 14, 2008 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wait,
Do the Cardinals have naming rigts until 2025. Or does InBev have naming rights?
by Evilfrog on Jul 14, 2008 8:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't have first hand knowledge
..But from seeing similar deals before, whoever owns the stadium, owns the ability to sell naming rights. This would mean that they sold AB a 20 year extension to name the stadium “Busch”. I would be shocked if AB had the right to sell the rights to someone else, the more likely scenario would be that they would have to pay a default penalty to the team and then the team could resell the rights to someone else.
by birdo rojo on Jul 14, 2008 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
P-D's covering this pretty well
Check Goold’s blog, more’s supposed to be up later.
by liam on Jul 14, 2008 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just saw Luddy in his ASG uniform
He looks like a badass
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 6:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You would think Lud looked like a badass if he was wearing diapers and was sucking his thumb.
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2008 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i hope that never happens
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 14, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Josh Hamilton
I watched his BP at a Rangers Stros game this year. To say his Bp echoes of a Mac Bp is a tad much as I heard a fan say there, but that was in Texas everything has to be bigger, and Olney said that today to on ESPNNEWS. He def puts on a show, but for me it pails to Macs.
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 14, 2008 7:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Allstar Game Tickets
I know season ticket holders get first dibs, but do tickets ever go on sale to the public? Or do you have to go through a 3rd party ticket seller? I realize it’ll cost a large sum of money, but I definitely want to get a couple tix for next years game.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 14, 2008 7:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
no cheapies for berkman
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 14, 2008 8:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Is there going to be a HR derby thread?
I needs me something to distract me at work.
by effin fisk on Jul 14, 2008 8:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
nice camera work on the CF hr
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 14, 2008 8:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
lol man, shitty camera work all together
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 14, 2008 8:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i forgot how annoying berman is
oi
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 14, 2008 8:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
just thinking about that about Morgan
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 14, 2008 8:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And they're working together :P
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Berman
sounds like a chicken with that “back, back, back” call. Highly annoying.
by cardsgirl95 on Jul 14, 2008 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I use to agree
until I heard the entire booth cringe everytime Rick Reiley opened his mouth.
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2008 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It would be awesome to see Colby Rasmus in the HR derby one of these years
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 8:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
just curious,
Why does everybody act like he’s going to be the second coming of christ?
I donno, all the advanced projection systems predict him to be a low 20s hr, 750-800 ops guy.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 14, 2008 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not saying he will be that awesome or anything
I just know that if he’s in the HR derby that means A) he’s an all-star and B) he’s hit a ton of HRs in the first half
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Er...
I think he’s going to be a little bit better than Skippy. .750-.800 OPS?
by DiscoJer on Jul 14, 2008 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not
but Rasmus will be alot better than Skip.
For starters, he can hit left handed pitching.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 14, 2008 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ahhahahaha
Ask any scout who has seen this kid, and they’ll probably slap you for suggesting that Rasmus won’t put up an OPS over .800.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 14, 2008 9:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
then i guess its a guarantee
why do we even play the games?
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2008 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
FWIW
PECOTA predicts a >800 OPS as of his age 24 season. Not to mention he’s a plus defender in the outfield. He’s a 4-5 win player.
by azruavatar on Jul 14, 2008 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not having a cardinal in the HR derby
is a sin. They should have one player from each team.
I can’t believe they didn’t put ankiel in the game- did anyone make the all-star game who was implicated in the steroids/HGH thing? I guess Tejada at SS, but anyone else?
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jul 14, 2008 9:19 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i'm asking
was anyone but tejada implicated in the mitchell report, etc?
Ankiel deserved to be in the game for his 130 OPS+, tremendous defense, and his story is better than Hamilton’s imho. I just can’t believe MLB turned down the chance to have rick ankiel and Josh Hamilton going head-to-head in the HR derby.
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jul 14, 2008 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was addressing you idea that there should be one player from every team.
And I don’t think anyone from the Mitchell report is in other than Tejada, as you said. Then again, most of those players were marginal talents or out of baseball all together.
And as far as the two stories, I’ll take Hamilton’s story. How many people die from Steve Blass Disease? When you have Steve Blass Diesee, you can usually get on with your life by doing other things than playing baseball. Hitting rock bottom due to heroin/cocaine/alcohol, etc. addiction is about as low as you can get as a human being. He didn’t play basball for 3 years and in his second year back, is an all-star starter and is a front-runner for the AL MVP.
IMO, the two storys are great, but not even close. but, that’s my opinion and you are entitled to yours.
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe as a human story
But as a baseball story nothing is better than Ankiel to be a professional hitter and pitcher is extremely impressive
by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 15, 2008 12:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and given that Ankiel and Ruth share
the pitcher-to-hitter thing, I would have thought they’d play that up.
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jul 15, 2008 12:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NL Central tearing up the derby so far
Berkman and Braun doing the division proud
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 9:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
And Josh Hamilton
He played for the Reds last year :P
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 9:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
josh hamilton is incredible
he might not even have to hit in the second round to win this thing…
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jul 14, 2008 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and then joe morgan steals my line
jerk.
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jul 14, 2008 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would they make him if he didn't have to?
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 9:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He may need the next half of the first round off just so his pitcher can get a rest
that old guy looks worn out.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 14, 2008 9:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He'll have reconstructive shoulder and/or elbow surgery tomorrow
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 9:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That old guy looked like every American Legion coach I ever saw.....
The same guy my brother, cousin, other cousin, boyfirend, nephews X 3, my son, my other son, my other son…...I swear the same coach wanders from Legion Post to Legion Post around the country…..the same man, I’m tellin’ ya…..
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 14, 2008 10:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Josh Hamilton is absolutely amazing
Unreal.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 14, 2008 9:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
so
Hamilton hit a few homeruns in the first round
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 14, 2008 10:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Did you know
that Josh Hamilton was addicted to crack and had a dream about doing the Homerun Derby in Yankee Stadium?
Do Work
by iwannarock24 on Jul 14, 2008 10:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
all i can say is
thank god jim hendry sold him to the reds. What a nightmare it would be to have him in CF in chicago for the next 15 years.
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jul 14, 2008 10:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amen, brother
And I’m plenty glad the Reds sent him to the AL, too, however good Volquez is looking!!
by random on Jul 14, 2008 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would rather hear about Josh Hamilton and his story
than 99% of the stuff we usually hear about.
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2008 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm kinda surprised Berman hasn't said
“He was one a can’t miss prospect, then drugs almost ruined his life. But now he’s back back back back back back back!”
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 10:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The though of that
makes me sick to my stomach.
Do Work
by iwannarock24 on Jul 14, 2008 10:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That was McGwire at Fenway redux
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 10:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That guy just called him "Jason" Morneau.
Hey! You just won the Home Run Derby and no one knows your name!!!! Sweet!
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2008 10:59 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He was the only minority in the Derby
Canadian
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 14, 2008 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't tell Rick Reilly
He said Morneau shouldn’t even be in the derby because it was all “white guys”.
by Tackle Box on Jul 14, 2008 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
morneau might be the whitest guy in baseball
I kept waiting for him to thank Thor for helping him achieve his goal…
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jul 14, 2008 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sizemore's
dad is actually black, and his mom’s white. Still, not a very diverse lineup.
by jdub176 on Jul 15, 2008 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and the ultimate insult
in the celebrity/HOF softball game:
“you can forget about what’s going on down in tampa, you can forget about what tony larussa is doing with the Chicago cubs, {whoever is coaching the stupid softball game} deserves the manager of the year award.”
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jul 15, 2008 12:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wait, who said that?
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 15, 2008 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, for the record
I think Tony could replicate what Lou’s doing in Chicago with that talent, but I’m not so sure Lou could do what Tony’s done in STL with the club we’ve got. He gets alot of hell on here, but TLR is a damn fine manager IMO. Frustrating at times (OK almost all the time) but effective.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 15, 2008 12:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe it was Rick Sutcliffe.
ESPN Management (CT): Umm…...what does this have to do with the Red Sox and Yankees?
SportsNation Jerry Crasnick: Management, Let’s take a break with the sarcasm, OK?
by Smokin Turkeys on Jul 15, 2008 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
heard the same thing. haha, i think george lopez was the manager fwiw
by Glowsticks on Jul 15, 2008 12:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know if this was covered but apparently Clint told John
Kruk that he picked Pujols to be his DH so that Albert would get 4, maybe 5 at-bats in the game. Basically, he’s staying in the whole time.
Eat that, LaRussa.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 15, 2008 2:17 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
LaRussa didn't have the luxury of the DH.
by Tackle Box on Jul 15, 2008 2:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as long as he lets dempster
pitch 4, maybe 5 innings…
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jul 15, 2008 2:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I can see Marmol
coming into a tie game in the 8th inning and giving up 3 runs for the loss giving Boston home field for the World Series yet again. UUGH!!
by KYCards on Jul 15, 2008 4:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

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