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My Big Bad All Star Prediction

First off, congratulations to Jaime Garcia on his major league debut. He looked more than a little bit jittery out there, but he still managed to get out of it unscathed. I think we probably all noticed the lack of velocity; he topped out at 90 according to the pitchfx system, and only hit that one time. All of the scouting reports I've read have him sitting more in the 90+ range. To me, it looked a little bit like Jaime was guiding the ball in there; I'm sure that may have had a little bit to do with it. I guess we'll see over the next few games, whether or not he'll throw a little bit better once he loosens up and just lets it fly a little more.

Overall, it was a pretty fantastic night for the Cardinals. Rick Ankiel had yet another nice night at the plate, and Kyle Lohse continues to cruise along, looking very little like the pitcher that he's been the rest of his career. I can't decide whether or not that's a good thing, to be perfectly honest. Of course, we all want to attribute Lohse's success this year to the Duncan Factor, to superior preparation and all of that sort of stuff. My fear is that we're simply seeing a talented pitcher having a career year. That's not a bad thing in and of itself, of course, but when you're trying to decide whether or not to sign a guy to a long term extension, you don't really want to judge him on his best season.

I'm sure we're all going to be watching the results of the Harden deal pretty closely over the rest of the season, so I thought I would help everybody out with a quick update. Last night for Oakland, both Matt Murton and Sean Gallagher made their Athletics' debuts. Gallagher received the win in a 9-2 A's victory over the Angels, going seven innings and giving up two runs, both earned, on only two hits and three walks. He struck out seven. Murton went 1-5 with two RBIs, and made two outstanding catches in the outfield. Clearly, Oakland got the better end of this deal. And no, I don't feel the least bit ridiculous for making that decision after one game. I stand by my convictions.

Well, it's just about all star time again this season. Seeing as how the National League hasn't won a game since the mid-30s, I thought I would take a look at the two squads this year and see if we can get an idea as to how the NL and AL match up. You can find the full rosters here.

First off, the starting rosters:

National League American League
C-Geovany Soto, CHC C-Joe Mauer, MIN       
1B-LanceBerkman,HOU
1B-Kevin Youkilis, BOS  
2B-Chase Utley, PHI 2B-Dustin Pedroia, BOS
SS-Hanley Ramirez, FLA SS-Derek Jeter, NYY
3B-Chipper Jones, ATL 3B-Alex Rodriguez, NYY
OF-Ryan Braun, MIL OF-Josh Hamilton, TEX
OF-Kosuke Fukudome, CHI OF-Manny Ramirez, BOS
OF-Matt Holliday, COL OF-Ichiro Suzuki, SEA
OF-Alfonso Soriano-CHC (DL) DH-David Ortiz, BOS (DL)

Well, looking at that list, I actually have to say that I like the National League's chances this year. I think they have a distinct advantage up the middle of the infield, and over at first base. Third is pretty much a wash, and the outfield might favour the AL ever so slightly. Manny isn't really Manny anymore; I think he and Holliday are pretty comparable. Ichiro is quite a bit better than Fukudome, and Hamilton, while a much better defensive player, is right around the same offensive player as Ryan Braun. I can't decide who has the advantage at catcher; Soto's been awfully good this season, but Mauer is still one of the best catchers in the game currently. I like Mauer's defense a little better, but Soto's got him beaten in terms of power. I think I'll have to call that a wash too.

What I find a little curious about the National League is how their outfield is going to line up. Fukudome is a legitimate center fielder, but both of their other starters are strictly left fielders. I guess Holliday is a little more capable of manning right than Braun, but that's not saying very much. I assume that the Clint Hurdle will have to bring in a better defensive outfielder at some point in the game, but at least for the first few innings, the National League is going to be very vulnerable defensively. Let's hope that whoever starts the game can keep the ball down, otherwise it could get ugly.

Speaking of the pitching, the NL has the advantage there, too, I think. In line for the start for the NL is most likely either Tim Lincecum or Brandon Webb. For the junior circuit, we'll most likely see either Roy Halladay or Cliff Lee. Halladay's an absolute beast, but so are both of the NL starters, and while Lee has been absolutely wicked this year, he still seems a little vulnerable to blowups at times. Personally, I think Webb and Halladay will probably make the starts for their respective leagues, and I'm okay with that. Lincecum is a whole lot more fun to watch, but Webb isn't exactly a slouch on the mound. Plus, with the weak outfield defense to begin the game, Hurdle may want to go with the guy that's going to roll up the grounders. It's probably a wash between Halladay and Webb; one of Halladay's big strengths is his ability to pitch complete games on any given day, and that won't come into play here.

Once the two teams get into the middle of the game, I think the NL has the edge again. Lincecum, Zambrano, Sheets, Haren, and Volquez are all capable of coming in and just blowing away hitters for an inning or two. I just don't think the AL pitchers are quite at that same level. Lee and Scott Kazmir are both capable of dominating, but guys like Duchscherer, Joe Saunders, and Ervin Santana, while all very good, just aren't quite as lights out.

Now, the AL does have a significant advantage at the back end of the bullpen. Mariano Rivera, K-Rod, Papelbon, and Joe Nathan all on the same team? Really, I guess if the AL can just get the game through about five innings, they can just throw closers at you the rest of the time. The NL just can't compete with that kind of firepower. Both Billy Wagner and Brad Lidge have been dynamite this season, but Kerry Wood is, at least in my mind, still a bit of a question mark, and while Brian Wilson could very well confuse the AL by taking the mound in a bathrobe, I just don't think he really quite belongs in with the elite closers in the game just yet.

The benches I think are pretty evenly matched. The American League has no answer for Albert on their bench, but guys like Grady Sizemore, Evan Longoria, and Justin Morneau are awfully good. The NL bench, besides Albert, will feature David Wright, Dan Uggla, and Russell Martin, among others. Advantage? Probably neither, though if you put a gun to my head, I might give the AL the slightest of edges.

So, what do we have here? I think the NL has a moderate advantage in both the offense and the starting pitching. The AL has the tougher back end guys, and their defense is probably at little better, especially at the beginning. (Although, to be fair, they will have Manny playing in left to start the game.) The benches are pretty similar; at the very least, they isn't enough one way or the other to make much of a difference.

I'm calling it right now. This is the year that the National League ends the AL's dominance and wins the game. I think the NL's pitching depth at the front end will just be too much for the AL, able to hold the junior circuit down long enough for the NL offense to score some runs. By the time the game gets into the late innings, the AL's superior back end pitching won't be enough to make a difference.

In the end, it's going to be a National League victory, 6-3. Bank on it.

Oh, and one last thing I forgot to mention up above. Mr. Mozeliak, if you're reading this, just say no to Colby Rasmus for Jason Bay. For all of our sakes. Thank you.

 

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I give the NL as a LOCK to win the ASG

and more in the future. All the young good hitting players seem to be in the NL, while the AL is making its living with a lot of players who have had their best years in the past…or are getting to that point.

ichiro, Vlad, Manny, Ortiz, Jeter, Arod

Vrs, Hanram, Utley, Wright, Phillips, Braun, Uggla, Soto, McCann…

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Jul 12, 2008 5:58 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

oh, and I didnt even get to pitching

Webb, Lincecum, Volquez, Peavy, Santana, Hamels, Carpenter, Zambrano, Harden, Sabathia, Sheets, Hudson, Haren…

thats some pretty good pitching all around.

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Jul 12, 2008 6:02 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Dan Haren is an all star, back to back years, two different leagues.

I wonder if that’s happened before to a starting pitcher?

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jul 12, 2008 8:23 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Vida Blue and the Unit come to mind

but I’m not sure if it happened to either.

by the Tewk on Jul 12, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pedro?

Surely he was an all star for the Expos and Red Sox.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jul 12, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clemens

2003 for the AL.
2004 for the NL.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 12, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm just glad

that Trevor Hoffman isn’t going to be around to blow another All-Star game save again.

The NL really needs to get ahead early in this game, especially since the AL has a pretty weak starting lineup, imo. Come on, Youkilis, Pedroia, and Jeter? Hanley has outhomered all of those guys, COMBINED, in the first half. If the National Leaguers come out slugging and put up an early 3-4 run lead, I can see it being difficult for the AL to come back.

With the crapshoot that the NL has at closer (sorry RB, I don’t trust ANY of those guys in a big game), I’d much rather see Webb, Lincecum, Volquez, and Zambrano get 2 innings apiece and bring in Haren or Sheets to close the thing out in the 9th. I’m sure the we’re probably going to see all four AL closers, as they are lights out, so the important thing is to get on the board early and stay there.

Oh, and get Fukudome out of the game as early as possible - he really doesn’t belong here - apparently you can BB your way into the All-Star game nowadays….

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 8:40 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

speaking of blowing ASGs...

I firmly believe we lost two because Cards were snubbed.

I think there is a good chance Pujols comes up big last year

and a couple of years ago, when they put MCab in as a defensive replacement in the bottom of the 9th (with Rolen on the bench) and a ball went right by him. I dont know how well I remember it, but I recall thinking Rolen would have gotten that. I thought it was a very consequential play…but Its been so lo0ng now I dont remember

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Jul 12, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cubs/A's trade

I agree RB, the A’s got the best of the trade, and the best player in that trade, imo, didn’t play last night—Patterson. Six years of cost controlled pitching from Gallagher, a good middle infield prospect, and a corner outfielder that’s been jerked around his entire time in Chicago and just needs to play regularly. I think they’re all going to contribute somewhere in the near future, while the Cubs have their fingers crossed that Harden actually makes 12 starts the rest of the season. He’s scheduled to go today….

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 8:44 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Jaime Garcia

I was fortunate enough to be at last night’s game in Pittsburgh (I couldn’t believe it was a sellout) and will be going again tonight. I felt that Garcia was a bit wild, but none of the Pirates made good contact on anything in play. The hit he gave up seemed to be a jam shot that wasn’t hit hard. Garcia was breaking bats (the old way by getting inside on people) and even though his velocity topped out around 90, was still effective. It makes me think that the movement on his pitches was getting into the rh hitters and they couldn’t do anything with them. After his performance, it opened my eyes to why he is better against rh than lh.

by Jumsy on Jul 12, 2008 9:39 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

seems like

maybe he has the Al Leiter-type late movement on his pitches that allows him to get inside on righties. I don’t think he throws a cutter like Leiter did, but he does seem to get inside on the right handed hitters pretty frequently even though he doesn’t throw that hard. His breaking ball was not working at all last night—I am really glad that it didn’t get hammered the two times he left it up in the zone.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rasmus should not be traded for anyone....

It would just be a horrible waste. I wanna see the outfield of Ludwick, Ank, Raz for the next 4 to 5 years until someone breaks down. That would be a sweet 3.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Jul 12, 2008 10:14 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Don't worry...

Rasmus ain’t goin’ anywhere... Pittsburgh may ask for him in a Jason Bay trade, but they ain’t gonna get him!

I know the Birds would like another bat; too bad we can’t clone this guy…

Imagine the “Rajah” hitting behind Pujols! :-)

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Jul 12, 2008 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the other way around

with hornsby at his prime, I think albert would be protecting the Rajah. I don’t think albert has ever slugged .756.

by cardsfanincolo on Jul 12, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

how come you never hear more about him?

Did people forget?

I know its a different era but he was absolutely sickining, at least from stats….since ive obsiously never seen him play

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Jul 12, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He didn't play in Boston or NY

and he didn’t get along well with anyone. The media was completely involved in Ruth at the time so Hornsby was an afterthought.

by cardsfanincolo on Jul 12, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he did play in Boston and NY

One year in each , and
four years with the Cubs. Amazing that perhaps the greatest RH batter of all-time played on 4 different teams in 4 years. Must have been very hard to get along with.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

sorry

going by memory. Forgot about the trade with NYG that brought Frankie Frisch to STL.

by cardsfanincolo on Jul 12, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was a legendary asshole

He is cited in the “There’s no crying in baseball” speech by Jimmy Dugan as someone you have to deal with, yet not cry.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jul 12, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

see, I knew St Louis could deal with assholes

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah,

Ive heard he was a hard nosed sonofabitch…

as well as some other things ;-)

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Jul 12, 2008 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to OPS+, he is the 5th best hitter of all time

Right above mantle and right below gehrig…and albert cracked the top ten thus far…I wonder what bonds would be without his pharmaceutically enhanced tail end of his career….

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Jul 12, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

btw

There is a good biography of Hornsby written by Charles Alexander if anyone is interested. I don’t know how to post a link but it is available at amazon.com.

How about this line for the five years from ‘21-’25: .402/.534/.690/1.224

I don’t think we will see anyone like him anytime soon.

by cardsfanincolo on Jul 12, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That is a great book

Definitely a must read for anyone interested in Cardinal history.

I always bring up him and Maris when talking about my top 5 players of all time and everyone just looks at me like I’m crazy—then we get out the stats and it doesn’t seem so ridiculous after all…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Again on Rasmus...

How is Jason Bay any better than Ludwick ??? Other than having done well for more than one year …

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Jul 12, 2008 10:21 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

well if it's extreme as ANY...

1. He’s hit 30 homers in a season
2. He’s sported more than one season of a 130+ OPS+, and he was banged up most of last year and played through it.
3. He’s never had a devastating injury like Ludwick has, so I would venture to say he’s more durable.

I’m not advocating trading for him, or any other outfielder for that matter, but I would say his track record shows he’s better than Ludwick.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tim Lincecum

Is pitching tonight. And there has been talk that we would not play in the All-star game because he would only be on 2 days rest.

by Evilfrog on Jul 12, 2008 10:24 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Lincecum

pitches on Sunday night—today it’s Correia v. Harden

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Molina and TLR

I gotta give TLR credit for moving Yadi to 5th last night. Wasn’t sure why but when I just saw on the P-D that he is hitting for the highest average among NL catchers against LHP it made sense. Sure enough a couple hits, two RBI. nice call there, and nice to see Yadi swinging well.

by paposse on Jul 12, 2008 10:43 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Also

I think maybe TLR was trying to shake up the lineup a bit after really stagnant offense in Pittsburgh. If it was just Yadi hitting lefties better, he would have been hitting there the entire week since they’ve faced nothing but lefties. Dropping Ank down a spot seemed to do him some good too—looked like he was seeing the ball better last night, or it could be that Zach Duke just sucks.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

*in Philadelphia

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 12, 2008 1:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yadi's Wallet

is the one that says “Bad Mtherfcker” on it.

I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck

by bukowski on Jul 12, 2008 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I take it

That he doesn’t eat pork either?

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And he will strike down

upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt to steal on his cannon arm.

by barry whiteteeth on Jul 12, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

its a dirty animal

I actually stay away from chicken sometimes…because I cant help but think they are dirty animals

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Jul 12, 2008 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yadi in Top 10 in the NL in Avg. right now!

I never thought I would see Yadi in the Top 10 in batting this far into a season!! By the way Pujols is at #2 batting .350…..he passed Berkman who is hitting .347.

by KYCards on Jul 12, 2008 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

same here

Yadi is having an amazing here, and appears to have blossomed into a good hitter… which I sort of thought he would remain pretty average. although he did show signs of this last season. So I take it Chipper Jones is the only one ahead of the Mang in the average dept?

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 12, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

*year

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 12, 2008 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I really liked it as well

If you think about it, why not have a guy hitting .300 in the 5 spot. He’s got what, the 2nd highest BA on our team, meaning he’s got the 2nd highest percentage to drive in the Pujols or Ludwicks or Glaus’ who have gotten on base in front of him. Plus, with an OBP of ~.360, there’s a higher chance of Ankiels HR being much more than solo shots in the 6 spot. I dunno… It seems so simple and obvious with statistics but… I really like the idea.

by Pujols Is A God on Jul 12, 2008 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Plus a little power

behind him and not just singles hitters like Kennedy, Iz2, Ryan – means there’s less chance for just going station to station because of his lack of speed. A double should at least get him to 3rd.

by TNTinCO on Jul 12, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

All Star Game

When do they announce who our DH will be? Have they announced who will replace Papi for the AL as DH?
Hopefully we get 5 at-bats of Pujols as DH….

"Them Cubbies can kiss my ass" -Dizzy Dean

by Molina4MVP on Jul 12, 2008 11:04 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll take

Josh Hamiton in the Derby—I don’t care who hits for the AL.

Too bad Ryan Howard isn’t in it this year—he could probably one hand a bunch of balls onto the pennant porch….

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 11:07 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

i REALLY WISH

slick rick could be in there. You would think that he could maybe make it just so ESPN could keep talking about his amazing story….

"Them Cubbies can kiss my ass" -Dizzy Dean

by Molina4MVP on Jul 12, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

how cool

would a Hamilton v. Ankiel finals be?

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd like to see him crank some over the wall

but maybe it’s best he stays out of the media frenzy for now

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 12, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You can have your Hamilton

I’ll take Sizemore with the win. Bank on it.

by Pujols Is A God on Jul 12, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

dark horse

Chase Utley

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 12, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I bet Utley will be out in the first round

He’s a line drive hitter who runs into his homers he’s just that good. Make him face 75 mph pitches and I bet he’ll struggle. It’s like Magglio last year.

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cards

will probably offer lohse…...3yrs 33 ........... Boris will tell him that he can get 4yrs at 50+ million….................. what do you think he schould do? Hes say he likes ST Louey, but they have two aces,,,,,,Carp and Waino…..... the best he will ever be, because of his career numbers is a Jack. Cardinal fans remain sceptical and who could blame them.

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 12, 2008 11:19 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd be pretty pleased if we could snag Lohse for a

3Y/33M deal. Even if he regresses back to more of a 4.25FIP pitcher, it gives us a lot of trading chips and a durable rotation option. I don’t know that he’ll take it but he’s been very impressive this season.

by azruavatar on Jul 12, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Burnett

Probably could get 3 yr/42 million deal for AJ which one would you prefer?

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 12, 2008 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd

prefer Lohse because he’s less of an injury risk and fits into the organizations mold better.

I like Burnett, but he’s just not consistent enough and gets hurt to often to pony up that kind of money.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 12:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lohse

he’s consistent, an innings eater, and I just have a good feeling about the guy

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 12, 2008 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Burnett

without a doubt

by azruavatar on Jul 12, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about both of them?

No. 5 could be McClellan/Wellemeyer/Pineiro. Pretty nice rotation.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 12, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure it's the money...

That will keep us from signing him, I think it’ll be the length of contract. He’s probably going to want a 5 year deal someplace, and considering how well he’s pitched over the last 12 months he’s probably going to get it from someone.

I don’t see Mo offering more than a 3 or 4 year deal. They have WW locked up for four more years, and Carp locked up for a bit longer than that at big $$$. With all of the pitching in the minor leagues, why would the front office tender a 5 year deal to a #3 starter? Unless we’re planning on signing him and then dealing some pitching prospects for middle infield help, I don’t think it makes sense organizationally to sign him longer than three years. I’d be happy with a 3Y/33M as long as the contract is front loaded with a minimal (say $8 million) in the final year so that he’s a decent trade chip that offseason. With Boggs, Garcia, and Todd in the minors it would make sense for the team, but not necessarily for Lohse.

IMO, nothing will happen until after the season. Boras clients always exercise their options to be free agents to play the market a bit.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Frontloading it wouldn't make any sense

You’d rather just eat the money 3 years down the line if it came to that than pay it now. The difference in NPV between a contract structured 8-12-13 vs. 13-12-8 is ~1.5 million depending on your discount rate.

On that note, the fact that A-Rod’s deal was “mid-loaded” was severely underrated it’s the equivalent of a backloaded 300 million dollar deal .

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, if Boras is his agent

which he is, he is more likely to ask for another 1-year deal. That’s a pretty common Boras strategy. Though a career year might make it too tempting to pass up a long-term option. The whole thing pisses me off because Lohse has indicated he would like to stay in St. Louis. You could argue they should make an offer to him in-season, with him at his peak value. This way, Mo can say well, we’re going to pay you like an 11-2 pitcher, even if you go 5-9 the second half. Three years for a little more than Soupcan got feels about right.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 12, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

let's hope that if Boras starts talking like that, Jeff Weaver calls Kyle up and says. . .

“It’s working for you there, right? Trust me: the one year deal is not worth it.”

by tom s. on Jul 12, 2008 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jeff Weaver career earnings: ~40 million

Jeff Weaver. He of the 93 ERA+.

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not making alot of sense there Red

Boris has often set the market, but not of late. Along with stirring up all of these rivalries, yanks-sox…cards – cubs.mets -phills…...the owners and there PR machines are crreating a Bull market…...........37mill for 3yrs for Lidge, an injury prone closer, and thats not Boris….Santana’s deal, not Boris….............Boris soes not incorurage 1yr deals. He also will not collapse the market by dealing a guy like Lohse because St. Louis fans tend to be fantasy baseball folks, trying to live within there budgets, below the market. The Yankees lead in the collusion effort, trying to take advantage of there young pitching. They saved a fortune and theoretically stand to make a fortune by establishing the value of youg pitchers.
Didn’t work of course. I would offer Lohse 3yrs at 36mill and have him tell his agent to jump in a lake,alla A-Rod…..........

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 12, 2008 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

For the love of god

It’s Boras.


The Yankees lead in the collusion effort, trying to take advantage of there young pitching.

That’s not collusion, that’s intelligence.

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And you are what

A Fantasy Owner….......am I right.

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 12, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not debating collusion in other cases

The Yankees not dealing the farm in order to sign Johan to a 7 year deal isn’t collusion.

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They made offers

and in collusion….with the Redsoxx…...agreed to with draw their offers. There Press apparatus made it seem like “gentleman GM’s agree”. They know there will be a suit, but they are playing the “damages aginst the gains” game.

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 12, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They made joke offers of Ian Kennedy + Tabata

The Red Sox didn’t need him and acted that way. I don’t know why this doesn’t make sense.

Accusing Hank Steinbrenner of colluding to help other owners is comical.

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You seem to be challenged in some way Joker.

If the twins aren’t idots, they have Lester and that young outfielder, pus two other prospects. they waited too long.

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 12, 2008 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah it's all on me

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3138088

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can you read

“they have altered ther offer” this was the begining of the scale down, with the yankees…......the mets even started backing off after the AL teams backed out.

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 12, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

“altering” meaning they are willing to include him. Point of the entire article being they aren’t willing to include him AND Lester.

So previously: Lester was on the table, they had Ellsbury as being untouchable. They changed it so that Ellsbury was not untouchable, but Lester + Ellsbury was untouchable.

Reading IS fun.

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

PS just to make it crystal clear, if Ellsbury was previously untouchable

Then Ellsbury + Lester was also untouchable at that time as well. They never could have gotten them both.

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is not difficult

OK here we go: the Red Sox offered Lester + others.
The Twins countered with Ellsbury + Lester + others
The Red Sox countered the counter with Ellsbury + others

There. was. never. Ellsbury + Lester. on. the. table.

I don’t get how this is complicated.

The Yankees offered Phil Hughes + Cabrera + others. Melky Cabrera is not good. So I’m sorry for the early comment, their offers were involving Phil Hughes not Kennedy. Was that better than Gomez + Guerra + Humber + Mulvey? Maybe, but it’s not like the Twins had EVER had much better on the table.

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it was coco and lester

now theat you read all that, do you see any collusion in the Sox Yankee withdrawall. No way Westcoast….......thats just business. The sox still thought they had Schilling st that time.

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 12, 2008 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No no I don't

137.5 million dollars and Santana is not worth trading two top prospects. The Sox/Yanks both determined that the Twins weren’t going to accept their highest bids and then they backed off. How is this surprising or fishy.

On second thought, I don’t care.

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The yankees and the sox

and the phillies and the mets didn’t sign any free agents. until the market collapsed.

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 12, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes what a coincidence

The Yankees set at all 9 positions (after giving oversized contracts to A-Rod/Posada but don’t pay attention to those) didn’t sign a single major free agent. They also didn’t even sign a starting pitcher despite already having 6 on their roster. And they didn’t even sign a closer to replace Rivera! Not to mention their payroll was already over 200 million I have no idea why they signed no one.

The Red Sox after giving 34 year old Lowell 37.5 million didn’t sign anyone. Then they didn’t sign a single free agent despite not needing anyone at any position. They didn’t sign a starter even though they already had 7 + Masterson/Bowden in the pipeline. I mean they didn’t even sign a closer to take over for Papelbon or a setup guy to take over from Okajima/Delcarmen!

The Mets having contracts at all 8 positions and giving the largest contract in history to a pitcher with their pre-season most talented team didn’t sign a free agent for some reason.

The Phillies after trading for Lidge and moving Myers to the rotation wouldn’t bite on a pitcher. So stupid, they already had 5 why wouldn’t they want more than they could have on their roster. Why wouldn’t they have re-signed Aaron Rowand after his career year and his blocking of Victorino playing every day.

Wait was I contradicting myself?

It’s all a conspiracy that those 4 teams didn’t actually need anyone so they didn’t sign anyone big.

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they didn't need anyone?

all to keep a Santana from going to free agency. What happened between teams is competition. Phillies sign Lidge for 37mill…to keep him from going to free agency. ............ all of those teams have since signed free agents at budget prices. Agreed the market didn’t have much of value. When the players hit free agency, the union gets involved. The union will evetually sue the owners… they’ll probablly settle out of court.

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 12, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Peter Angelos lousy owner but great litigator

The union does not stand a chance of winning a lawsuit based on the players they represent are signing guaranteed contracts, avoiding injury risk as opposed to playing out the current contract, becoming free agents and hoping to get a better offer in six months.

Angelos would have a field day in court with that one.

by ubeddie on Jul 12, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Easily

because it was blatant. Andre Dawson couldn’t get a contract after an all star year. That is like Lohse putting up this year’s numbers last year and being shut out.

Not happening.

by ubeddie on Jul 12, 2008 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One-year deals

are a very standard Boras tactic. I’m not even going to bother looking up a link for you. It’s a fact that he advocates free agents going year-to-year. It’s probably what he’s going to do with Ankiel—if Rick is stupid enough to let him.

Second, you don’t tell Boras to jump in a lake. He represents dozens of MLers and it’s a small community of agents and GMs. He’s tough, but his knowledge and preparation is widely praised. You have to out-argue him with comps and ultimately, with your willingness to walk away beyond a certain price. Deals are not always about price and years; there are lots of other factors and typically St. Louis is very competitive when non-price issues are reflected.

As for the rest of your post, I have no idea what you are talking about.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 12, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Boris Corporation

keeps track of “all” contracts and prostpects. They know when the market will be up or down for a particular talent…....and the relaveants of a 1yr deal…....Weavers problem is he can’t pitch.

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 12, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would hope to god that they keep track of all contracts

There’s like 3 internet sites where that is already done for free too.

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agents ALL hate each other

and will do anything to undercut and steal another agents player. Boras is one of the worst, and no agent would give a second thought to stealing one of Boras’s players. There isn’t even anything morally wrong with it, because the business of baseball hasn’t codified a long-term relationship between players and managers.

Players don’t technically even have to have agents. If Lohse wanted to stay in STL bad enough, he could fire Boras and call any law firm and ask them to review a contract offer for him, or just call Mo and tell him he’s representing himself. Or he could sign with any of the other 80 or so agents who would be beating down his door to represent him the day he fired Boras.

"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN

by SleepyCA on Jul 13, 2008 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

err players and agents ;)

"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN

by SleepyCA on Jul 13, 2008 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Since Bon Jovi is playing Central Park today for All-Star Week in NY

I guess Def Leppard will play at Lake DeWitt for next year’s All-Star week?
That would ROCK!!

by KYCards on Jul 12, 2008 11:26 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I just spit up coffee.....

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 11:32 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

my money'd be on sammy hagar

i had no idea what kind of following he had in st. louis until a buddy invited me to see him at riverport amphitheater umb bank pavilion verizon wireless amphitheater. that was a fun show.

by mattybobo on Jul 12, 2008 11:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah I can't believe how popular Sammy Hagar is in St. Louis

I never really liked Hagar…my favorite will always be David Lee Roth.

by KYCards on Jul 12, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a rocker through and through

Here’s a list of my favorite bands: AC/DC, Van Halen NOT Van Hagar, Skynyrd, Def Leppard

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 12, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Joe Dirt?

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Jul 12, 2008 8:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Indeed

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 13, 2008 4:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh I can...he's the white trash jesus.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Jul 12, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was at that show too...

Have you heard his new band? Chickenfoot I think it’s called….

Joe Satriani on guitar, Michael Anthony (Van Halen) on bass, and Chad Smith (Red Hot Chili Peppers) on the drums.

They’ve apparently been in the studio some during may and Chickenfoot is apparently a band name in progress. Those guys would have to put out some decent tunes I would think, Satriani has been a favorite of mine for a LONG time…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

that sounds pretty interesting!

i’ll have to remember to keep track of that.

by mattybobo on Jul 12, 2008 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

just checked

they plan to cut an album in the studio around Labor Day, tentatively.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I will call into work for a day of mourning if we deal Rasmus for 1.5 years of Jason Bay

And I will tell them I am in a day of mourning for that exact reason.

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 12:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd have to take a week of blogging

I can’t even imagine how devastated I’d really be.

by azruavatar on Jul 12, 2008 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

speaking of Rasmus

Does anyone know if they have T-Shirt jersey’s of his name/num for the Redbirds? I didn’t see one online but I thought maybe they sold them in Memphis. . .

by azruavatar on Jul 12, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would hope Mo would be smarter than that.

Holliday for Rasmus…yes…..Bay for Rasmus…NO!

by KYCards on Jul 12, 2008 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm thinking no on both.

Check out those home/road splits on Holliday…ugly. Considering Colby also plays superior defense and will do it all for cheap, trading for Holliday would be an awful move. Same for Bay.

by ViperLjs on Jul 12, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But I'm basically in the "dont trade Rasmus for anyone" camp.

He figures to be a franchise cornerstone for years.

by ViperLjs on Jul 12, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There are a couple of guys I'd give him up for, but not many

Hanley Ramirez
Dan Uggla
Ian Kinsler

Come to my mind, they are all relatively young and have a huge bat at non traditional positions. Our current outfielders are pretty good and there are others in the minors that will likely be able to play out there adequately. They won’t be as good as Rasmus but be decent. Whereas our current MIs and the ones on the radar, not so much.

by birdo rojo on Jul 12, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hmmmmm

I’d probably trade him in a deal for Ramirez or Kinsler, but not Uggla. Uggla isn’t that young either, he’s 28 and will be 29 before next season starts. Hanley is 24 and Kinsler is 26—so they’re quite a bit young and much further along at this point in their careers.

Hanley isn’t great with the glove at SS, but he’s better than Uggla is at second—if he keeps hitting like he is, Uggla is probably going to end up at a corner position at some point, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Hanley got moved to a corner outfield spot at some point in his career either.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would say yes for

Ramirez & Uggla. Neither are ever gonna be great D at their positions, but the bats make up for it.
Kinsler…I am just not liking his numbers away from the Ballpark in Arlington. He has a career .254 .328 .415 away from that place. While it is better than any of our 2B, I just think Rasmus is too much to give up for him.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and by yes I mean maybe think about it

I would still be very upset if Raz is traded for anybody.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Uggla v. Kinsler

They have an identical OPS+ for their careers. But, Uggla is two years older so let’s compare them at their age 26 seasons:

Uggla (2006) .282/.339/.480 112 OPS+
Kinsler (2008) .332/.393/.541 149 OPS+

Kinsler has been slowed by injuries his first two seasons in the big leagues, I would guess his numbers this year show his true ability. He also has good speed and is and average+ defender at the same position.

Concerned about him away from Arlington? Here’s his split this year on the road:

.299/.358/.539 OPS .898 in 47 games and 230 PA’s

I think it’s safe to say that he’s not just a figure of his ballpark.

I’d be interested to see what the WARP values are for both as well if anyone knows where to get that info.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I stand corrected

I was hesitant to put up his career splits because he hasn’t exactly had a long track record to go by. This year is quite nice.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kinsler

He also signed a 5 year deal at the beginning of this year worth $22 million with a $10M club option for 2013. So he’s cost controlled for only one less year than Rasmus would be if he came up next year.

It’s all a moot point anyway, there’s no way the Rangers are trading him.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

WARP

Kinsler’s for 2006 was 4.4 2007 6.1
Uggla’a for 2006 was 8.7 2007 8.6

BP’s projections for 2008
Kinsler 5.9
Uggla 6.1

I do not understand projections

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and I think I am learning to love PECOTA

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

MORP

BA predicts that value in $$$ amount over the next 6 years is worth $56,975,000. Is that worth Bay or Holliday.

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 12, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously it'd be a play for this year/next and not the next 6

And PECOTA isn’t good enough to project 6 years down the road with the slightest accuracy, but Jason Bay is MORP’ed at 38 million, Holliday at 58 million. Oh and technically they are projecting his defense to be average which from every report it is very much better than that so I’ll venture to say he’s more than 56 mil.

So technically projected value for value, it’d be worth it to trade for Holliday. Except Rasmus will cost 1.5 million the next three years and on the high side ~30 million for the next three if we play it year to year with arbitration and BP has him projected accurately there. Holliday is going to cost 13.5 million next year and at least 90 mil the 5 years after that once he hits FA. Hmmm 100 million vs. 30. It’d be a long term terrible decision to deal Rasmus for Holliday.

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

after watching Ryan

bat yesterday, the name Miles surfaced in my tiny brain…...is he injured or worse?

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 12, 2008 12:57 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Time to ask HOU about Miggy?

Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2

by gocards62 on Jul 12, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No thank you

I would prefer not to have a mid 30’s SS that is in decline. I just don’t like that $13M contract for next year. He is good, just not THAT good.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is he good?

He’s sporting a 97 OPS+ on the year which is above average for the position and his last 300 PAs he’s at a hacktastic .249 .293 .370.

He’s obviously an upgrade over the pudding bats we’ve been throwing out there but that doesn’t make him good.

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's not good

Ask the fantasy owner in my league who decided that Tejada would be his keeper instead of Chipper Jones or Lance Berkman…helloooooooooo last place….

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone know the deal with the 40 man roster

Boggs is off of it. I thought I saw last week that Hawksworth had been taken off of it, but now he seems to be back on it.

Does this mean that Boggs is on the verge of being traded? I can’t think of any reason Hawksworth would be on it , but Boggs wouldn’t.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 1:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Probably just a mistake

I just counted.

43 Total Players
4 on the 60 day DL

That leaves an open spot on the 40 man which belongs to Boggs.

by El Hombre on Jul 12, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm watching harden

He is throwing gas.

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 12, 2008 1:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Harden has hit 97

So much for the arm/shoulder fatigue.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 12, 2008 1:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

right when I turn it on

Edmonds hit a homerun. ridiculous

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 12, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Correia is an idiot

3 pitch at bat. He threw edmonds 3 89 MPH fastballs inside IN THE EXACT SAME PLACE. The 3rd one left the park. Dumbass.

The Giants are terrible.

by cloistermaximus on Jul 12, 2008 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Those reports were on bad radar guns anyway

Gameday had his velo being just fine.

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clint Hurdle

I don’t think he’s smart enough to realize he needs to start the sinkerballer with the atrocious outfield of Braun, Fuku, and Holliday.

Has there ever been a dumber manager to win a pennant?

Just wait and see if the Brewers somehow get into the WS this year.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 12, 2008 2:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I suspect his bumpkin persona

is somewhat deceiving. While I realize that the year the Rockies had in ‘07 was probably a one-time fluke, Hurdle always struck me as a mgr who had the good sense to get out of the way; moreover, he has always been quick to credit his players and down-play himself. And there is something to be said for that.
Re. the latter (crediting players), LaRussa does that, too, but somehow it doesn’t come off the same way, possibly because in many practical respects TLR does NOT get out of the way.

Nonetheless, I actually had the same quease you did. Hurdle may be too LaSorda-esque and in cheerleading mode to THINK properly. What it points up, again, is the ridiculous consequence that the game determines home field advantage in the WS.
Except for late relief, I think the NL is the better squad this time around, but that does not mean we will win.

by the Tewk on Jul 12, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Harden with 7K's in 4 innings, hitting 97MPH

I’m going to disagree with RB’s assessment of who got the good end of this trade.

Well Beane, you screwed the Cardinals again.. Thanks a lot.

by cloistermaximus on Jul 12, 2008 2:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

1 game dude

his arm is still VERY likely to blowout before the playoffs.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 12, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

When he's healthy...

he’s great—we all know that. We’re just betting he isn’t going to STAY that way through the playoffs.

My point was that Chicago gave up three big league ready players who could help Oakland contend in the AL West this year for a reliever and an oft-injured starter. In the long run, Oakland will have gotten the better end of the deal, especially if the Cubs don’t win the WS this year….

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sick to my stomach.....

Edmonds has 4 RBI’S today already. They are not through five. Mr. Harden has struck out 8 batters through 4 innings-not seven-8! Yikes!

Yes, I really am sick to may stomach…..

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jul 12, 2008 2:27 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

so am I

but that probably has something to do with the hangover. but this cubs game certainly isn’t helping

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 12, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yep....

My fav NL team obv. Cardinals…
My fav AL team are the Yankees…

Pretty sickening to think of a RedSox/Cubs world series…

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Jul 12, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Patience, Grasshopper

let’s see if his arm holds on a few more starts.

Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2

by gocards62 on Jul 12, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

I still don’t believe Harden will pitch a single inning for the Cubs come October.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 12, 2008 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ronnie Belliard

I heard the other day that we had some scouts in Washington, and all the reports I’ve heard are that we were scouting Kearns, Redding, Perez, or Guzman. I wouldn’t mind giving Belliard another go around in STL. He wouldn’t cost much in terms of prospects, and he’s having a solid year so far in a backup role. He’s only batting .226, but his OBP is .330 and his SLG is .471. His OPS+ is 110. His LD% is only 16.9%, below his career average, and his BABIP is a paltry .224. He is almost certainly going to improve in batting average. I don’t know where to find defensive metrics, but he was very soild defensively in 2006 when he played for us, IIRC. What does everyone think? What would it take to get him?

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 12, 2008 2:30 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yeah, any improvement in the OF

would be a micro-upgrade over what they have now…somebody above average in the MI would be a HUGE upgrade….

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Jul 12, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Belliard has isolated power of .245?

Wow! I had no idea. I’m not sure he’s exactly what the doctor ordered, but he might be better than Ryan. You gotta DFA Kennedy or send Ryan down to do it though, so I don’t think they will.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 12, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ron Belliard = World Series win

2006 proved it.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 12, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You forgot part of the equations

Ron Belliard + St. Louis Cardinals = World Series win

Otherwise the Nats would be the defending world champs :P

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 12, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Side note

How can his BABIP be lower than his BA? Could he have gotten a hit on a ball not in play? I’m confused…

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 12, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Home runs are not in play

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jul 12, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Muchas gracias

I did not know that. That’s still pretty amazing, though.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 12, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Harden is looking too good. We might be toast as far as winning the division.

In my opinion now we are playing for the wild card.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Jul 12, 2008 2:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

+1

Even without Harden, the Cubs were going to win this division unfortunately.

We just need to root for the Brewers to lose (and the Marlins/Mets for that matter)

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 12, 2008 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Phillies too

They could still lose the East yet. We just need every team close to or above .500 to lose

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 12, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think

it’s safe to say that this Cubs team is much better than that one….

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

holy crap

my calendar still says July. It is hot, sunny, and there are people out at the pool. Yep, it must still be July.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

good :)

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Jul 12, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

now if only dempster would come back to reality.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Jul 12, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

More than half his pitches this year have been breaking balls

My elbow would hurt too.

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good point

this is kinda what i’m afraid that will happen to KMac. He’s being used almost as much as Marmol, and he also relies on breaking stuff.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jul 12, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Where the hell

is ACB now to tell me that Marmol is the bullpen jesus?

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

HEY! is that Jesus?! Jesus Christ our Lord!?

no dumbass, that’s just Rush.

some days i really miss Bevis & Butthead. today is one of those days

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Jul 12, 2008 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

holy shit,

I thought maybe he just gave up 3 or so, I had no idea he blew that ginormous lead.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Jul 12, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great game by Harden now means nothing

but I bet the CUbs will still win this

by KYCards on Jul 12, 2008 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they commented on the radio

(here in Chicago) the other day that since May 31st his ERA is over 7.

by vances law on Jul 12, 2008 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This somewhat surprised me but

Hitters only hitting .173 .353 .423 off him since May 31st. I guess if they get a hit it’s a bomb.

For reference Franklin on the year .261 .343 .452…...

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Franklin

Gross

I wish our MIF could put up those numbers!

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 12, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We're talking about the same Lou P, right?

No need for the must

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jul 12, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Apparently

Lou has “heroes” just like TLR

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 12, 2008 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

In Lou's defense: Marmol does have lots of talent

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 12, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So does Wainwright

But TLR leaves him out there too long routinely

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 12, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

talent means nothing if

his damn arm falls off.

Think Lou is starting to regrets throwing Marmol out there in some of those blowouts earlier this yeason yet?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boy, Marshall really has an amazing curve

17 inches of drop and 13 inches of movement.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 12, 2008 4:52 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Let's hope Harden

makes more of those 5 inning starts.

Please be a little less effective in those 5 innings though.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 5:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Or at least let the opposing pitcher not sport an ERA over 5

If Correia wasn’t completely terrible, there wouldn’t need to be 7 runs to score to tie it.

by cloistermaximus on Jul 12, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

anyone care to guess who Correia threw this line out against?

7 2/3 IP 5H 0R 4K ?

Ugh

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lineups/Stltoday

Miles SS
Ludwick LF
Pujols 1b
Ankiel CF
Glaus 3B
Duncan RF
Molina C
Wellemeyer P
Kennedy 2B

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 5:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Miles leading off?

This is why we can’t trade for Holliday—he or Izturis would be up there every f*ing night….

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

say it together now

Aaron Miles is not a shortstop.

by azruavatar on Jul 12, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Will I get kicked out of the stadium next weekend

If I make a huge ass sign with those exact words on it and walk around the ballpark with it?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He does fine.....

Name the last game where Miles’ play at SS cost us a game. Or heck, cost us a run.

by SoonerfanTU on Jul 12, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he does not have the range for SS

just because we don’t see obvious errors does not mean that he doesn’t get to balls that most SS should. I love Miles, but he is not a major league quality SS.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That was my question.....

How many balls do you remember thinking “Gee, Izturis would have gotten to that.”

I’m not saying there aren’t a handful, but I’ve watched an awful lot of Cardinal baseball, and I sure don’t remember any off the top of my mind.

by SoonerfanTU on Jul 12, 2008 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and

McClouth CF
Rivas 2b
Doumit C
Bay LF
Nady RF
LaRoche 1B
Mientkiewicz 3B
Herrera P
Wilson SS

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 5:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

We're not the only team that has problems with pitchers

The Angles’ Kelvim Escobar is going to have his labrum repaired. Not good news, but in a way somewhat comforting knowing that other teams have their hopes squashed when rehabbing pitchers don’t make it back.

Link

by birdo rojo on Jul 12, 2008 5:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

and

they still have Nick Adenhart at AAA waiting in the wings….

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 12, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes they have

They’re loaded with pitchers. Comment was just to point out that other rehabbing pitchers run into problems too, it’s not isolated to the Cards.

by birdo rojo on Jul 12, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, I know.

They stuck with two of their younger pitchers who were less than stellar last year, and what do ya know, they’re all stars…...Darn, Kelvin once was a member of their staff too…......

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jul 12, 2008 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Does anyone think Welly should

be on a short leash tonite….......for his own good and not the team need.

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 12, 2008 6:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Just ordered Cable

Finally did it, I have gone without Cable for almost 2 years but I miss baseball too much. After some negotiating with Charter I got the most basic package for only $24.99 a month. Thought I got a pretty good deal there.

by FlimtotheFlam on Jul 12, 2008 6:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

24.99 a month and Cardinal baseball?

I hate you

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 6:36 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

dang reply button

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 12, 2008 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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