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Birdos_avatar_tiny by lboros on Comment 204 comments

alright, so that’s over with; the depths of mark mulder’s value have been plumbed, and he has made the cardinals’ leadership look blind for the final time. at an individual level, i feel bad for mulder; he’s put a lot of effort into his comeback, and apparently it has all been for nothing. but the guy did get fair compensation for his labor, to the tune of $13 million, so i’m not brimming over with sympathy. at a team level, i’m glad they resolved this question without having to suffer through another 20-run pounding (or 3); of all the incredibly ill-advised c’mon-mulder starts we have witnessed over the last 3 seasons (last night’s was the 6th, by my count), this one inflicted the least amount of pain upon cardinal fans. they actually had a decent chance to win the game.

joe strauss says jaime garcia will get the call to take mulder’s roster spot and, presumably, take a few turns in the rotation. the cards hit the all-star break in 4 days, so they won’t need a 5th starter until july 21 at home vs milwaukee; we’ll probably see garcia pitch in relief between now and then (he last pitched on july 6). and there’s no guarantee that jaime will be the 5th starter when one is needed; he has pitched beyond the 5th inning in only 5 of his 12 starts at triple A, and his control has gotten progressively worse --- 2 walks per 9 innings in may, 3.5 per 9 in june, and almost 6 bb per 9 so far in july. he’s got big-league talent, but the stats suggest he still isn’t quite ripe. hopefully the stats are missing something . . . .

strauss also reports that tony is pushing for a trade to counter the cub / brewer moves; he purports to speak for the clubhouse. the article says he "emphasized the need to better protect first baseman Albert Pujols within the lineup during a meeting last week with Mozeliak and Chairman Bill DeWitt Jr" (matt holliday, cough cough). to me, that’s not the most pressing area of concern. at the time he went out, albert was having a pretty typical season --- 1.106 ops, isolated power close to .300, on pace for 35 homers, 100 runs, 100 rbi --- and while the injury left his counting stats a bit light, his rate stats remain close to his career norms. the cards are getting what they need from el hombre; it’s not clear how better "lineup protection" (if you believe such a thing even exists) will translate into better production from him and more wins for the team. moreover, where is this protecting bat going to play? presumably the outfield, unless la russa has in mind a 2b or ss who can bat cleanup. cardinal outfielders continue to excel offensively; they rank 2d in the league in homers, 3d in rbi, 3d in slugging average, and 3d in isolated power. two of their outfielders are already on pace for 30 homers . . . . so where is the marginal gain in adding a slugging outfielder to "protect" albert? i don’t see it.

ok, maybe they could use a right-handed platoon bat to prop them up vs southpaw pitching; any time you have to be aaron miles 6th (as the cards did last night vs the lefty rookie), you’ve got some issues. may i propose milton bradley, whom i coveted during the off-season signing market? he is slugging .690 against lhp this season and has slugged well above .500 vs them cumulatively over the last 4 seasons; his ops away from the hitter-friendly arlington ballpark is a healthy .867. coming off a knee injury, bradley was confined to dh’ing for the first 2 months of the year, but he now has made 20 starts in the outfield, most of them since june 1. the rangers got him on a 1-year deal, and because of his limited playing time over the last few years he won’t be a type A free agent when he walks at the end of this season; might not even be a type B. that’ll lower his price on the trade market; he still won’t come cheaply, but it’s very possible the cards can get him without giving up a major prospect. if they can get him for something along the lines of reyes and duncan (and maybe that’s wishful thinking), he’d make the team better.

if he’s too costly, then how about the rockies’ ryan spilborghs? slugging .603 vs southpaws this year, .586 vs them in 2007; ops above .800 away from coors field in both seasons. he could platoon w/ skip schumaker, come off the bench, plays all 3 outfield positions decently . . . . but no thank you to clint barmes, another rhb from the same roster. his name always seems to come up, and he does play shortstop, but he’s a coors field mirage --- ops is just .720 at regular altitude this year and was .635 in 2005, the only other good season that barmes has had.

given that the greatest need for offense lies in the middle infield, may i propose (as i seem to do every year) rich aurilia, who still has some life in his bat at 36 years old? (pauses to let hisses die down. . . . . .) he has mostly played 1b this year, but aurilia made 18 starts in the middle infield last year and 30 starts there 2 years ago; he surely could play 2b as well as scott spiezio, who made 4 starts at 2b last season. aurilia is a career .492 slugger vs left-handed pitching; this year he’s slugging .500 vs them in 76 at-bats. and overall he’s hitting .306 / .373 / .479 away from run-smothering pac bell park. the trouble is, to fit him onto the roster you’d have to get rid of miles (which tony will never allow to happen) or send brendan ryan down to memphis (shouldn’t happen).

personally, i still think the team would be best served by adding another starting pitcher. the formula that worked for them early in the year --- consistent starting pitching, superior defense, and just enough offense --- has broken down since wainwright and wellemeyer got hurt; wellemeyer has shown no signs of regaining his april-may form, and wainwright still won’t be back until august 1 or thereabouts. there’s carpenter too, but he is a crapshoot --- even if he returns to the rotation this year, we should assume he’ll need some time to get used to the new elbow and shake off some rust. imho, the only way to get back to where they were is to add a stabilizer for the rotation. they don’t need to add an ace --- that’ll cost too much in the way of prospects. but they need somebody who’s healthy and reliable --- who’s not adjusting to the big leagues, as boggs / parisi / garcia are, nor pitching impaired. randy wolf tossed a pretty game the other night vs the marlins; he’s averaging 6 innings a start this year, hasn’t missed a turn, and boasts a FIP of right around 4.00 for the last two years. or maybe (probably not, but one can hope) they can buy low on aj burnett, who is pitching much better than his 5.23 era suggests; his FIP is only slightly worse than cc sabathia’s. it’s hard to imagine them landing burnett without giving up a lot of talent, but you never know; burnett can walk after this year, so the blue jays don’t have a lot of leverage. suppose mo could get him for bryan anderson plus boggs or mortensen, plus maybe a lesser piece, and in exchange burnett agreed to waive his opt-out clause. anybody biting? i’d be pretty tempted. . . . no way of knowing what the blue jays are asking for a.j., but i certainly hope the cards are inquiring.

as far as the offense goes: their fundamental numbers remain pretty sound. they’re going through one of those stretches where they struggle with RISP and rack up ugly left-on-base totals (12 in last night’s game), but that’s probably just a random thing; for the season as a whole their RISP split is pretty close to their overall batting line, and they are right in the middle of the NL pack in both batting average and ops with RISP. not an ill with a prescribable cure; they just have to ride it out. the good news is they continue to rise in the categories that correspond to repeatable skills --- now up to 6th in homers and 5th in slugging, holding the line at 2d in obp. could the offense be better? absolutely. but pitching wins --- and since wainwright / wellemeyer went down, the cards have been scuffling. i don't see it ending until they get the rotation shored up.

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Mather

Been hoping he would be that impact bat to re-energize the lineup. He looks comfortable at the plate but then takes some hacks at balls out of the zone. Hopefully he gets a few more chances. The bases juiced K last night was disappointing but he battled.

by paposse on Jul 10, 2008 9:08 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

best AB

since that 1 AB in Washington, IMHO. The fact he took 2 pitches up front showed a lot – that’s where he and Stavy (not to mention Rick) have irked me and that’s also why Duncan is still getting ABs.

On that note, I think the key to getting Ankiel is not throwing fastballs or breaking balls, but just balls.

by enoscountry on Jul 10, 2008 10:19 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!

by sportsman on Jul 10, 2008 9:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mather

might have done better if he had been allowed to start the 2 game in Philly. Sitting out 2 games against lefties and then asked to come in against a righthander with bases loaded is a lot of pressure on a new rookie. That said I still think I see that Mather has trouble with low outside pitches just like Ludwick does at times. Hitting coach needed?

by ridgesee on Jul 10, 2008 10:19 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

user of Mather

Agree completely that Mather was not put in a place to succeed. Like that he took a couple of pitches though.

by jjray on Jul 10, 2008 12:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOOGY....

Morning! Aside from every teams wish of another starter, I would say that the most impact low investment move would come from adding a dependable LOOGY to the bullpen. Before everyone starts crowing for Fuentes, most pundits say that Tampa is hot to trot for him. Tampa could give up two top of the line pitching prospects for him and stil have another two or three in the Top 100 prospects.

We don’t have the firepower to win that bidding war.

by Brock20 on Jul 10, 2008 9:09 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What about Freddy Garcia?

Isn’t he just chilling out in FA land? He wouldn’t take ANY prospects, he’s been pretty durable over his career, and he might just provide the innings-eater we need to stabilize the pitching staff.

He’s not a stud, but given the guys who are currently in the rotation, there’s not a lot to suggest that ANY of them (probably sans Lohse and to a lesser extent, Joel) going even 5 innings in a given start. This pattern has been incredibly taxing on the bullpen.

We need a guy, any guy, to come in and give you innings every 5th game. Garcia has a history of doing that and he would only cost money, which alleviates the concerns of “selling the farm.”

by goodymobb on Jul 10, 2008 9:17 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+1

might as well kick the tires at the very least.

"Back in the day when I played, a pitcher had 3 pitches: a fastball, a curveball, a slider, a changeup and a good sinker pitch." - Mike Shannon

by nomar34 on Jul 10, 2008 9:46 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

+2

No cost in terms of trade. The only problem might be outbidding other teams like the Yankees or Mets…

"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley

by TurdFerguson on Jul 10, 2008 10:12 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

when'll he be ready?

if i remember right, everything i saw had him back in august, i.e. right when carp and waino supposedly come back. mabye if we’re still in dire pitching straits at that point i’d consider him, but i’d say we should look at guys who will help us make it to that point first.

go cards, o's, and phillies.

...boiler up.

by moboiler on Jul 10, 2008 10:14 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yep, August after a rehab start or three

Garcia may be a better bet than Wolfe with his anti-midwest trade stance…

by cardschinmusic on Jul 11, 2008 4:28 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Unfortunately

for all those who are fond of us getting Bradley, I’m one of those people, I believe I saw that he was scratched from his start last night. I didn’t feel like really lookin into it, but it may not be anything too serious.

I tend to agree with all the AJ supporters. I wouldn’t mind given up a few players to acquire him, but only if he could guarantee that he would not opt out of his contract. Then, he’d be a power pitcher that we have for next year. Plus, we could also better the team by being able to get better by trading another one of our lesser starter available because our rotation would be full if everyone came back healthy. Carp, Wainwright, Burnett, Wellemeyer and Piniero w/ the Todds, Garcias, etc all there if something fails. I dunno what exactly the Jays need but there’s no doubt they’d benefit from Anderson, a starter to replace AJ, and a Duncan/Mather? Plus… After that Glaus for Rolen trade that worked out well for both of us, maybe Ricciardi would be willing to give it another shot…

by Pujols Is A God on Jul 10, 2008 9:19 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

not sure about Burnett

I’m not sure how he’s pitching better than his era suggests. What I’ve seen from him this year is a good game bracketed by lousy ones, which is exactly the kind of inconsistency a good-field, hit-just-enough team doesn’t need. And while he may not be Harden-level fragile, he does get hurt fairly often.

by Dr Tom More on Jul 10, 2008 9:41 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Burnett's problem.

(besides well-documented injury & attitude problems)
ERA w/bases empty = 0.55 (4 ER in 66 IP)
ERA w/runners on base = 11.11 (65 ER in 52 2/3 IP)

His strand rate (64.6%) is the 6th lowest in MLB among starters.. His BABIP (.338) is 7th highest among MLB starters..
Guy can’t pitch out of the stretch. He’s just like other similar pitchers (Javy Vazquez, Ian Snell, Felix Hernandez, Dave Bush, Anthony Reyes, etc.) who’s peripherals are always good but the results don’t seem to match.

Stay away.
Boomer.

by glamboomer on Jul 10, 2008 10:56 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think the Pirates won't trade Snell....

He is their only right handed starter….and they signed him to a long term contract.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jul 10, 2008 2:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ERA with no one on

Doesn’t that just mean he’s given up 4 solo shots in 66 IP?

by brackenthebox on Jul 10, 2008 12:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Burnett Wed. night

gave up 7 runs on 7 hits with 7 strikeouts. Burnett doesn’t excite me, but he’d be a lot better to have available for some innings than the pitchers who need more time to ripen in minors (Garcia/Boggs/Parisi) and the options who aren’t really options (Thompson/Reyes). It would be nice and more than wishful thinking if we could simply trade Duncan & Reyes (and a PTBNL?) for A.J. as I think those two would be better off with an opportunity in the American League and for a team like Toronto.

For whatever reason I’m not optimistic Wellemeyer will offer much upon his return, but for whatever reason I do think Wainwright may be able to return to form. Wainwright/Looper/Lohse/Burnett would be a decent 1-4 that perhaps would keep Cardinals within a fighting chance in the 2nd half of season. And if Carp makes it back late in the season, that would be a solid starting five, leaving Piniero & Wellemeyer for the long relief/emergency start role. So all-in-all, if the price is right, Burnett would be a plus.

As far as another productive clean-up hitter to protect Albert the Great, haven’t most fans seen that as a major need and been asking for such a big bat since before team signed Encarnacion? Glaus-Ankiel-Ludwick are all look a lot better to me hitting 5, 6 or 7 in the lineup than at 2 or 4.

by RedbirdattheBeach on Jul 10, 2008 12:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll take Javy Vazquez

on my team on every day ending in “y”

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 10, 2008 4:53 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

bradley

bradley’s required several days off with a “sore knee” this year, and the rangers have been playing him primarily as DH to protect the knee. washington made a comment (I think it was last night) that he’s unlikely to play much outfield for a while because they need his bat in the lineup. I wouldn’t view him as an everyday outfielder.

by blahquaker on Jul 10, 2008 10:18 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll say it: the pitcher to get

is “He Who Shall Not Be Named”—Anthony Reyes. He doesn’t cost us anything and he has proven (on occasion) to be “adjusted to the big leagues” to quote Larry.

I know this open me to all sorts of attacks, but AReyes appears as good as any FA/DFA pitcher we’d likely get.

Before pursuing Burnett, et.al., I’d like to know if Carp, Wainwright, and the Colonel are fit. That means waiting until after the season.

Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2

by gocards62 on Jul 10, 2008 9:20 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I won't attack, Gocards62

kinda’ makes sense to me, probably too much sense for greater minds to understand.

by ridgesee on Jul 10, 2008 10:27 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I mean

why the hell not? what are we doing with this guy?

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 10, 2008 12:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's a decoration. A bright, shiny, bauble

that they won’t take out of it’s box.

Seriously. You can make the argument that he shouldn’t get another chance here. Okay. Explain to me then, why you just don’t trade him for another minor leaguer, that would not be “nothing.” It would be another minor leaguer. That’s something. That’s the part I just don’t get….

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jul 10, 2008 12:54 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Isn't he still DLed?

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jul 10, 2008 12:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Please no...

unless we buy really low.

by stlfan on Jul 10, 2008 11:34 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

We would be

Have you seen his stats this season?

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 10, 2008 12:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Having seen the stats...

in a different discussion, I take this back.

by stlfan on Jul 10, 2008 7:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Spilborghs is hurt

"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley

by TurdFerguson on Jul 10, 2008 9:35 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Strained Oblique

That could be one of those that lingers the rest of the year.

by RockyMtnRedbird on Jul 10, 2008 9:44 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If Aurila is ok then why not Durham?

He would be an upgrade in the lineup and he owns a infielders glove.

by Harknights on Jul 10, 2008 9:37 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Just say no

to drugs and middle infielders in their 30s. Seriously, I am no Kennedy fan- not even from the outset, but his glove has to compensate a bit for that bat. Expensive 1 year solutions aren’t the answer in the MI.

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Jul 10, 2008 11:15 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Durham

I don’t think he’d be all that expensive. He’s putting up good numbers with the bat, and he’s not terrible defensively—his better bat would more than make up for his glove being slightly worse than Kennedy’s. He’d also be a great guy for Tony’s 9 hole slot in the order since he’s been a leadoff guy before and can get on base at a much better rate that Izturis.

I don’t know what he’d cost, but I don’t think it would be much more than Rich Aurelia, and he’s much better defensively than Aurilia at 2B.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 10, 2008 11:30 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Easy, doable trade....

Jose Bautista of the Pirates straight up for #23. It’s Glaus insurance. Yes, I know he’s not sparkling in the field. Adequate, a little pop, Young enough to keep around-helps now and the future.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jul 10, 2008 12:59 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hanley Ramirez?

Late in yesterday’s post I threw out there the idea that the only guy I’d trade Rasmus for was Ramirez almost as a joke. Then I got thinking about it and started thinking it may be a somewhat decent idea. Ramirez is only 24 and would fill a huge organizational hole. Yes it would be very hard losing Rasmus, but as lboros pointed out our OFs are more than holding their own and I can see keeping them intact plus some smaller call ups for the next couple of years.

What would Florida need back for Ramirez? Rasmus + Garcia? More? Supposedly they are looking for a ML ready backup catcher, maybe we could throw in LaRue and call up Anderson?

by birdo rojo on Jul 10, 2008 9:38 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No way

There’s no way I see the Marlins making that deal. They could get so much more for him.

by birdjam on Jul 10, 2008 9:47 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Florida already has a 21 yr old CF

I’m not sure they would want Rasmus. They have their own star CF prospect in Cameron Maybin, who also happens to be 21.

by RockyMtnRedbird on Jul 10, 2008 9:47 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Cody Ross

Is also having a pretty decent season for them as well and I believe he is manning CF right now.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 10, 2008 10:49 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mulder

Whether Mark Mulder is well compensated or not, it can be a tough lesson of how important your health can be, especially for an athlete. Fame can be fleeting. Just the look on his face as he left the mound should make even the toughest critics feel bad for him. Does management have their answer about him now? Do us fans? My concern right now is for Mark the person!
My wish for Mark is if this is the end for him, he be satisfied he did everything in his power to get back to the level he was at. God Bless You Mark!

CliffNotes: "My Dad wanted me to be a baseball player!"
Roy Hobbs: "The Natural"

by CliffNotes on Jul 10, 2008 9:41 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I do feel bad for him

but not quite as bad as if he had pitched for us more

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 10, 2008 12:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mark Mulder

$10 million arm
$10 million heart
...
$2 shoulder

by rthorat on Jul 10, 2008 9:49 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

here's to mulder

taking a few years off, then triumphantly returning in a percival-like performance for the 2011 cardinals.

go cards, o's, and phillies.

...boiler up.

by moboiler on Jul 10, 2008 10:01 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey mo

who do you root for when the Cards & Phillies play each other?

"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley

by TurdFerguson on Jul 10, 2008 10:10 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

cards of course

but the phillies are a fun bunch to watch. a bunch of my friends here are phils fans, so it’s easy to get excited, and citizens bank park is a blast. i’ll be back up there for hamels vs. webb on sunday.

go cards, o's, and phillies.

...boiler up.

by moboiler on Jul 10, 2008 10:19 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

randy wolf

has a 14-team NTC that includes “many midwest clubs, which could pose a problem for the cardinals.”

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/07/randy-wolf-like.html

go cards, o's, and phillies.

...boiler up.

by moboiler on Jul 10, 2008 9:57 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Saw that story

He’s a So. Cal boy and happy there…thankyouverymuch. Wolf isn’t going to work—not only do they have to decide to trade him and like what we offer, but he has to approve the deal. Too many moving parts, IMHO.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 10, 2008 10:13 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Still a possibility

It’d just cost us more, seems to me that most of these limited no trade clauses are just ways to get the player a raise, another year, etc. We could still do it, it’d just cost us more.

by birdo rojo on Jul 10, 2008 10:18 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So was Woody Williams

and he ended up being happy with the Cards for a few seasons. If he turns it down, so bet it, but he’s probably only got one more shot to play for a winner and the Dodgers and Angels aren’t calling anytime soon for his services…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 10, 2008 10:52 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

woody

was a houston native.

go cards, o's, and phillies.

...boiler up.

by moboiler on Jul 10, 2008 11:03 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yeah

There isn’t a major league team in Houston where he could play. :-o

by Red in Chicago on Jul 10, 2008 11:06 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he was...

but he ended up going back to the pads after he left St. Louis, and said that one reason he went back is that he like living in SoCal—he still lives out there now…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 10, 2008 1:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

aj burnett

ken rosenthal is reporting that the jays offered burnett to the brewers in exchange for jj hardy. looks to me like an offer we could match. not if riccardi is exclusively looking for middle infield help, but – in terms of overall value – we could match it.

competitive, serviceable, juan gonzalez, blah-blah-blah...let's rebuild!

by redbirds6 on Jul 10, 2008 10:00 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Even if they are looking for middle infield help

we can still swing a deal for Burnett by involving a third team. Bryan Anderson would have a lot of value to the Marlins, for example.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 10, 2008 10:10 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are you trying to say

We send Bryan Anderson to the Marlins
The Marlins send Hanley Ramirez to the Blue Jays
The Blue Jays send us Burnett

? Unless you’re referring to their 2B (whom I can’t recall right now), this trade would be stupid for the Marlins

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 10, 2008 12:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They have players less valuable than Ramirez

What about someone like Scott Olsen? I’m just pulling that name out of my ass, but They have a bunch of valuable young players/prospects that the Jays might want.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jul 10, 2008 1:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wouldn't mind AJ and Brian Tallet

for say…..Anderson, Motte, Schumaker and a lesser prospect.

As for a bat….. I just don’t know.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 10, 2008 10:11 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Tallet

Brain Tallet while a lefty has a reverse platoon split. I’d rather get Scott Downs.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 10, 2008 10:27 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Anderson

I think we’re forgetting how valuable a top catcher prospect is … I think any trade involving Anderson has to bring the Cardinals a solid clean-up hitter or a solid 1-2 starting pitcher … I wouldn’t mind Burnett coming to St. Louis, but he’s at best a No. 3 starter and probably best suited as a No. 4, imho … I’m not sure I’d package Anderson for him … I could, however, part with Brendan Ryan as I think players like him are more easily replaced … if we had a prized catcher prospect in A ball, maybe I’d be more willing to part with Anderson, but otherwise, I think he can be used to bring in a better talent than Burnett somewhere down the road.

by RedbirdattheBeach on Jul 10, 2008 1:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ummmmmmm..... I do agree it seems like Anderson's name gets thrown out alot..

What team would really want to make a trade with Bendan Ryan being the center piece?

He is not much better offensively than Izturis (heck he may be the same), and it’s not like he is really much younger than Izturis either. What team would want Brendan Ryan? I don’t think any team would make a trade with Brendan Ryan being a centerpiece of the dea…...

by ICbirdfan on Jul 10, 2008 1:14 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Anderson's name gets thrown around because he's the most expendable part of the farm system

and is actually valuable. People need to stop being quite so annoyed by this. If we’re going to trade anyone, him or Molina make the most sense in terms of replacability and a high return.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jul 10, 2008 1:27 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't have a problem...

with Anderson being a part of a trade, but I don’t want him sent out for a rental. If we were to trade for Burnett and Anderson was part of the deal…I’d be pissed unless Burnett gives up his “opt-out” clause.

by cardzfanbub on Jul 10, 2008 2:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

What would be very interesting

is if the Brewers still made that move. Now that would be a rotation.

Well who the hell can see forever?

by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2008 10:39 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Who plays SS?

Bill Hall? If you do that, then Braun comes back to the infield, making their defense a whole lot worse. I’m sure that they would ask for JoeMac, Eckstein, or Scutaro as well so they had someone to man the SS position.

They’d be nuts to give up Hardy for another pitcher who can walk next year—I would guess the the Brewers were the ones the declined that deal.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 10, 2008 10:54 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'd think the Jays

would throw in Johnny Mac, which would probably help their D.

I agree it’d be absurd, but they’d definitely have a strong shot this year and be loaded with picks next year.

Well who the hell can see forever?

by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2008 11:01 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

My initial reaction

was to say “Naw, dance with them what brung ya.” I’d rather not make a bad trade. However, one important lesson from the CC and Harden deals is that a “motivated seller,” to use real-estate language, may not ask for as much in return as we fear.

LB (or anyone else), who are the motivated sellers among the teams with the players you list? Who’s being actively shopped among those players? I would still resist putting a big package together for someone who’ll only be traded if he costs an arm and a leg.

by StanTheManFan on Jul 10, 2008 10:06 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Well What to do?

I have been in favor of patience. Looking at the schedule for the rest of the month there is the big series with the Brewers, but it is not the toughest stretch we faced this year. So first we need a no bullshit assessment of Carp and Wainman. If they are going to ready on 8-1-08 then we can stagger along with the rotation we have. We have to wait and see. As far as MI help goes what about Kennedy? After a horrible May he has heated up. Is he just what the MI Dr. ordered? If we could get another outfielder who can hit lefties and slip him into Duncan’s spot, and bull pen help I think we will be fine.

by nybirdfan on Jul 10, 2008 10:07 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

another huge ?

is Welley

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 10, 2008 12:15 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Am I the only one

who thinks that calling up Garcia might hurt him more than help? I know that he has major league stuff, but has proven that he still needs work in the minor leagues before making up to the majors. Also, he was injured last year and only pitched about 100 innings. I would think that they wouldn’t want to exceed that by too much.

by JBagKY on Jul 10, 2008 10:11 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Initially

I thought he would be joining the rotation. But I think he’s really a lefthanded Mike Parisi—the June version. I don’t think he’ll start unless absolutely necessary. Even then, Johnny Wholestaff may come in to relieve him in the fourth inning.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 10, 2008 10:16 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

good to know that we'll have another left hander in the bullpen

since Garcia won’t be a starter right away

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 10, 2008 12:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

he might be up for bullpen duty

At least until the break or a trade is made. I would be Okay with Thompson getting the ball for the start a few times.

by Evilfrog on Jul 10, 2008 10:32 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I agree, JBag

I don’t see any reason to bring him up now instead of in September with other, just as viable, options in the system, such as Boggs, Parisi, and Anthony Reyes. Why not let Garcia continue to start every fifth day in Memphis for the duration of the AAA season and then call him up for ‘pen duty?

by bgh on Jul 10, 2008 10:38 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

kudos to Thompson last night

he gave us a chance to win

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 10, 2008 12:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I can live with him working out of the bullpen

He can focus on his best two pitches, and build up the confidence that he can get major leaguers out

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jul 10, 2008 1:21 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Money talks

It’s not guaranteed, but chances are you can buy yourself a post-season berth if you spend enough money. to get talented players. The Yankees prove this, year after year. The Red Sox and Cubs are learning this sad fact, too. Hey, even the Brewers are now doing whatever it takes to make a serious run. Meanwhile, the cheap Cardinals owner sits back and does nothing. What else is new?

God only knows how low this team will fall when miracle-workers Tony LaRussa and Dave Duncan leave. Until ownership starts to open its wallet and becomes aggressive like its rivals, the odds against STL ever winning again will get longer and longer. No wonder TLR is discouraged. I don’t blame him.

by ccthemovieman on Jul 10, 2008 10:19 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You know

it always annoys me when somebody always gets around to solving problems by throwing money at it. The U.S. Congress has tried this for decades and it hasn’t worked yet.

by ridgesee on Jul 10, 2008 10:39 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Please don't compare a baseball organization to the federal government

The Cardinals aren’t going to be borrowing money from China and Saudi Arabia to fund a starting pitcher. A ballclub is a money-making capitalist endeavor. To have a team that has a shot at the postseason, you have to invest in talent. We’ve been lucky enough to have an organization that will do this (Edmonds, Rolen, Morris, Carp, Pujols, et al). We will be “throwing money” at players this offseason because we will have money to spend. What’s more, the Cardinals organization is very much in the black. It’s perfectly reasonable to expect them to put money back into the team instead of into their own pockets. This is even more true with so much coming off of the payroll this offseason (Mulder, Encarnacion).

by bgh on Jul 10, 2008 10:43 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nothing wrong with spending money wisely

but “knee jerk” spending is not fruitful and right now the time is kind’a ripe for some good old knee jerk spending; not only money but in talent (prospects) Excuse me if I’m a little cautious.

by ridgesee on Jul 10, 2008 10:51 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No one is asking them not to send it wisely

We do not need CC or Harden to compete in this devision. A good LOOGY and an upgrade bat (even bigger if that AB comes from the middle infield.) would go a long way in making up those wins.

If help comes in the form of a SP we don’t need a number 1 pitcher. A number #3 time to fill the 5th start position would be nice.

by Evilfrog on Jul 10, 2008 11:06 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wisdom

I think that is the underlying issue that we debate here most days. And, if you look at my posts, we are not in disagreement. The benefits of any roster move must be worth the costs, whether it is in prospects, money, or length in years. We’ve seen both wise and unwise roster maneuvers from the Cards over the years. What everyone on this board hopes for is a wise roster decision before the trade deadline, whether that is standing pat due to costs being too high or making a move due to costs being acceptable.

by bgh on Jul 10, 2008 11:07 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

this guy failed to mention

that a lot of our payroll is tied up with guys like Mulder right now

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 10, 2008 12:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Here

Rankings I found here

1. Cubs $118M
2. Cardinals $100M
3. Astros $90M
4. Brewers $81M
5. Reds $74M
6. Pirates $49M

Did some rounding, and I don’t know if this has been updated since the start of the season

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 10, 2008 12:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Once again

Sorry for the repost, moboiler

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 10, 2008 12:33 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

way to go snowflake

that is your new nickname from here on out. you ok with that?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 10, 2008 12:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Sure

I’m actually a kidnapped dolphin that through a series of misadventures, Dan Marinos, and transvestites, Jim Carrey will rescue me!

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 10, 2008 12:41 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah those are pre-season totals

with the recent acquisitions, the cubs’ salaries rise to $121M (118.3 + (4.5+1.8) * 71/162) and the brewers adding sabathia brings them up to about $86M (81 + 11 * 71/162).

Once again I can’t believe how little the A’s sold Harden AND Gaucin for. Beane only owed Harden 2.76M for the rest of the year, and is (was?) within surging distance of the AL west title, so he has to know something about the Cubs prospects or Harden’s health that we don’t.

"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN

by SleepyCA on Jul 10, 2008 2:08 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

maybe

he thinks he might be just as good off with a starter he can probably count on in Gallagher and an upgrade at one of his corner outfielders. He may already have a deal for Ellis or Patterson in the works.

He also probably figures that at some point the Angels are going to start hitting it better than they are and Oakland’s offense won’t be able to keep up.

It’s hard telling.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 10, 2008 4:55 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

2008 nl central payrolls

chicago – $118.3 mil
st. louis – $99.6
houston – $88.9
milwaukee – $80.9
cincinnati – $74.1
pittsburgh – $48.7

other division leaders:
arizona – $66.2
philadelphia – $98.2

(source of these numbers.)

i don’t think you can argue that the cardinals don’t spend. the only NL teams with higher payrolls are: new york (huge market), los angeles (huge market), chicago (huge market + national TV revenue), and atlanta (national TV revenue).

go cards, o's, and phillies.

...boiler up.

by moboiler on Jul 10, 2008 10:29 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Astros

sort of surprising. i would have expected theirs to be higher with Tejeda, Berkman, Lee, and Oswalt eating up money.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 10, 2008 10:31 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Dumped

Clemens and Pettite.

by bgh on Jul 10, 2008 10:49 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Ah shit

Wow just keep reading, you dumbass (talking to myself)

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 10, 2008 12:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't know if this is exactly fair

the team is trying to be prudent. They don’t have the resources of a Chicago or Boston. And right now-under pressure to make a deal-there aren’t all that many great options out there. Prospects also talk, and the team is a year or so away from having a nice crop of them. But we’re seeing the fruits of letting the farm system decay over the past decade—or rather we have seen the fruits. We are starting to see the harvest…

Where I think they’ve screwed up is in the repeated multi-year deals for mediocre players. The club won’t dump them or trade them, but they limit flexibility by taking up roster space: Looper, Encarnacion, Kennedy, Pineiro?... They need to understand sunk cost and ditch these guys when they have opportunities to upgrade.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 10, 2008 10:33 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

that's the thing

not too many options out there that are really attractive

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 10, 2008 12:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

money (just money) increases your chances of winning by 30% or so.

- we went over that a couple years ago I think.

Spending your money wisely – as the Yankees and Red Sox do and the Rangers do not – is what makes you a winner.

Anyhow – the cards aren’t cheap they’re just trying to build a foundation of talent from which spending money will have better payoffs.

by enoscountry on Jul 10, 2008 10:35 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yanks and Sawks

spend lots of money, and generally spend it wisely, but the Rays are beating them both with homegrown talent. That’s spending money wisely.

by Ray Lankford on Jul 10, 2008 10:38 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yes, but how many

years of utter futility did it take for Tampa to get where it is now? They’ve been “building from within” almost their entire existence except for that year they signed a host of fading stars. I expect Tampa’s little “window of excellence” to last maybe 3 years, followed by yet another decade of last place.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 10, 2008 10:47 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

And to do that in that division...

is quite impressive. Very few teams can build teams the way the Yanks and Sox do…Tampa had to try another route, and to this point it’s working.

by cardzfanbub on Jul 10, 2008 10:52 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It is impressive,

but they’ve been going down this road a LOOOONG time and it’s only working now. Is that a weakness of the approach, or was it a case of poor management in years past and a new crew now?

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 10, 2008 1:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I don't buy that...

They’ll be opening a new stadium shortly, and they have a ton of cost controlled players on the roster. Longoria and Crawford are signed for the foreseeable future and they’ll have the resources to pony up for Garza, Shields, and Kazmir when they become free agents. Florida isn’t a bad place to live either, with no state income tax and nice weather all year round, so good free agents may also want to sign there. It will be tough to outspend New York and Boston, but there’s no reason they can’t be competitive by spending money wisely and finding new revenue streams.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 10, 2008 11:04 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Yanks spend money wisely?

huh? Don’t they have by far the highest payroll in baseball and they are in 3rd?

The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!

by Zubin on Jul 10, 2008 11:18 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

"Generally spend it wisely"

You are correct: they are in third . . . behind two of the best teams in baseball.

by Ray Lankford on Jul 10, 2008 11:23 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The Yankees spend money wisely?

I would agree that Epstein and the Boston front office have their shit together—they don’t generally sign long term contracts (i.e. longer than 4 years) and are adept at getting value with trades and guys who are let go. The only bad contract that they really have is Varitek, their captain, and he’s not making NEARLY as much as the Yanks pay their captain.

But the Yanks? I have to disagree with you.

1. They spent a boatload of money of Jaret Wright and Carl Pavano, and between them I think they started 8 games in a Yankee uniform in 4 years.

2. They are paying the most overrated SS in baseball $21 million for his “intangibles”, because he’s putting up a line that is just barely north of guys making far less money.

3. Giambi is making $22 million and putting up numbers similar to Ankiel, while playing a poor 1B to boot.

4. They spent $36 million on a catcher in his mid-30’s this offseason and he’s missed 50 some games this year with injury.

They don’t get the best production for their money - but they have SO much money to throw around they can afford to make moves that don’t pan out. It’s not the best way to spend enourmous amounts of money, since this can cause roster flexibility issues in the long run, which is what they’re experiencing now - aging vets that are making too much money to be dealt anywhere (Giambi, Jeter, Damon, Posada). The Cubs may be in a similar situation in a few years because of backloaded contracts and the fact that a lot of their players will be 10-5 guys by the time they are in the last year of their deals, giving them full no-trade protection. Boston avoids this by keeping players on 3-5 year deals with a few exceptions (Manny, who was signed before Epstein took over)

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 10, 2008 11:27 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

4 world series

in 5 years was pretty successful. Recently not so good. But that’s my point, you can succeed with money or you can really fail.

Money ain’t the key.

by enoscountry on Jul 10, 2008 12:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They didn't

freely spend $$$ back in the World Series days though, they found good players who would fit their system, made trades for the right guys, and built around a solid core of players like O’Neill, Bernie Williams, Tino Martinez, Mo Rivera, and a veteran pitching staff. When they went whole-hog and started bringing in superstars is when they’ve struggled in the postseason. They might still get there on the sheer force of talent and $$$ but they don’t have the team chemistry of those old teams that made them so good. All the pieces don’t necessarily fit together. That and they held onto fading stars longer than they should have—Posada, Williams, etc.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 10, 2008 1:35 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So in other words . . .

when they won all those world series, they spent their money wisely?

by Ray Lankford on Jul 10, 2008 2:18 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Honestly?

They didn’t spend as much money and most of the key players were acquired from the farm system or through trade. They weren’t going after the flavor of the month every single offseason. Were they still in the top 5 in terms of payroll? Yes, but they didn’t have albatross contracts with any of those players like they do now. Their title teams were eerily similar to the Boston teams of this decade—good free agent signings, good players from the farm system (Jeter, Rivera, Spencer, Posada, Bernie, Pettitte), and letting guys go who are going to demand bigger money and replacing them.

Yes, they spent money wisely—until the core players on those teams retired and they decided to go out and replace them with superstars, figuring the Jeter could just hold a team of overpaid egos together and win championships.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 10, 2008 5:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Postscript

The Steinbrenner era was marked with spending money unwisely—they made a couple of decent signings in the 70’s (Catfish, Reggie), but a lot of their big moves in the 80’s couldn’t get them over the hump even though they were one of the highest payrolls in baseball for most of that decade. This continued until the early 90’s and then they caught all the right guys at the right time and went on a great run.

The Yankees are the ultimate example of how knee-jerk reactions when adding payroll can negatively effect your ballclub. It certainly has over the past few years.

I may catch flack for this, but I firmly believe they should have shopped Jeter two seasons ago when his stock was still really high to a team that was looking for an impact bat at SS (even though he’s not an impact bat, but that’s another entire diatribe….lol). Now they have a guy who’s on the wrong side of 30 and possibly showing signs of decline making $21 million the next few years. He’s pretty well unmoveable at this point.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 10, 2008 5:10 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Welcome to the Neo-Moneyball Era of Cardinals Baseball

Before the organization settled on GM MO, remember they were giving a look to that wonderboy over in Cleveland… and look how it’s working out for the Indians this year. Point is this: The Cardinals are moving toward a Neo-Moneyball system that will rely heavily on oranizationally produced, cost controlled players. The is exactly what ol’ Walt didn’t like and why he was shown the door. Now, in the Neo-Moneyball paradigm, you’re going to have to endure the cyclical nature of rebuilding more often and you have to be prepared for occassional season crash-and-burns (again, look at Cleveland this year). Remember: The Cardinals (from the GM on up…) this year went into the season thinking evaluate current talent and build toward a more promising future of being competitive. Thanks to TLR and Duncan, this team IS competitive beyond any expectations. To the Cardinals (from the GM on up…) this season is gravy. I see this team making a minor move for bullpen help, but that’s about it. Wait until the off-season for a meaningful, cost prudent trade or two, and pray on Sunday mornings that all those minor leaguers develop into quality players.

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

by palampe on Jul 10, 2008 12:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Neo-Moneyball?

I haven’t heard that term before, but I assume you aren’t a fan of the moneyball or sabermetrics methodology?

by Ray Lankford on Jul 10, 2008 12:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Coined the phrase just today...

...feel free to use it. I was trying to describe a sort of Billy Beene approach that also includes free agent acquisitions and a little “old school” scouting. Actually, I think the approach to finding undervalued and potentially productive players is brilliant, but it isn’t an exclusive/secret approach anymore. I appreciate what the Cardinals are trying to do with the minor league and development system, expecially in looking at places like Venezuala and the Domincan Republic.

My only cringe is that this approach will inevitably lead to severe, almost unpredictable downs. More often than not, it will depend on locking-up in-house free agents prior to their free agency and gambling that you choose the right ones. It also depends on having excellent pitching prospects, because you’ll never afford the Santanas or Sabathias in the open market.

Honi soit qui mal y pense.

by palampe on Jul 10, 2008 1:05 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I guess I just don't agree with your premise

that develping in-house talent will lead to “severe, almost unpredictable downs.” If you developed your own talent, wouldn’t you be able to gauge how far away really good crops of prospects will be? You have a few years before you have to lock someone up long term, right? I’m genuinely asking—players aren’t eligible for arbitration until they’ve put in a couple MLB years, right? So its not like buying a lottery ticket. Besides, I would argue that developing in house talent provides a more reliable way to gauge who you want to lock up long term. (Pujols, Wainwright vs. Rolen, Mulder, Carpenter)

Also, I don’t think anyone is advocating that the Cards develop their own talent exclusively - ie: no free agent signings or trades. I think the general sentiment is that we should do most of the building from within - supplementing with trades and signings where needed.

by Ray Lankford on Jul 10, 2008 2:26 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Isn't the

downside more along the lines of always having a decent team, but never a great one? That’s what Oakland is all about. It’s a low risk, low upside strategy. I think it’s a good philosophy to start out with, but now and then you have to say screw it, we’re going to knowlingly overpay for somebody who is on top of his game right now. I think Jocketty just went to far the other way and completely ignored the value the farm system brought to the club, which led to the farm’s depletion. It seems that now we have a regime that respects what the minors can bring to the table, but will leverage that for short term gains if it seems necessary (unlike oakland, which seems to ignore the short term).

by spencegrif on Jul 10, 2008 5:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nitpicky I know,

but the “wonderboy” in Cleveland isn’t their GM, so the failures can’t be laid at his door.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 10, 2008 1:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The place where this team is standing is pretty much a miracle

La Russa and Duncan deserve a lot of credit for this team not being in 5th place

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jul 10, 2008 1:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nobody responded...

Except a yahoo from me!...the old “too much credit when ya dont and not enuff when ya do” axiom is as much at work here as Murphys Law is in the starting rotation this year.

by cardschinmusic on Jul 11, 2008 4:40 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

AJ Burnett

The Bluejays look like they could use some help in the DH department as well. Matt Stairs seems to be about finished. Maybe Duncan would have trade value. Perhaps Duncan, Anderson, and Reyes for Burnett (waiving his opt out clause) and Scott Downs (LH reliever).

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 10, 2008 10:26 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I keep seeing this posted

Why would Burnett waive his opt-out clause?

"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA

by joker24 on Jul 10, 2008 1:58 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

If it was his...

only way out of Toronto. Otherwise he has no incentive to do so.

by cardzfanbub on Jul 10, 2008 2:29 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mulder

will be pitching for scouts in February. He will be looking for an insentive laden deal.
This play was exactly as I indicated earlier. There is NO WAY he gets thru a big league warm-up, to be SURPRIZED in the first. The show was or you folks…........

Hadley Ramirez for Rasmus…........ what do you folks eat for breakfast?

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 10, 2008 10:33 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hanley Ramirez

Unless you are talking about the love child of St. Louis sports talk radio baffoon John Hadley and Manny Ramirez, its HANLEY Ramirez.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 10, 2008 10:36 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No it isn't

It’s spelled howzever westcoastbirdwatcher SAYS it is….............................................................

by Red in Chicago on Jul 10, 2008 10:38 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

sorry

guys,don’t have my glasses…..............assholes

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 10, 2008 10:39 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Rasmus for Ramirez

In a second…though the thought of a straight-up deal for them is crazy. Florida would need more than Da Raz.

by lightbulb on Jul 10, 2008 1:25 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

how is it a show?

I know I don’t have knowledge of the “inside” or how much this is about business, but to say he was trotted out there for show doesn’t make sense.

The Cards aren’t going to waste a couple games just to make us “entertained” by someone’s failures – that’s why we watch the Cubs. Why then would Mulder be thrown into that tight situation against NY?

Plus, isn’t this just a case of “sink, or swim”? Mulder can’t take up a bullpen spot so either see if he can start or cut the line. We can’t deal with this all year. On the warm up thing – I’d think the rain delay had some impact there.

by enoscountry on Jul 10, 2008 10:44 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

goldarnit, mr. lamarr

you use your tongue purtier’n a twenty-dollar whore

go cards, o's, and phillies.

...boiler up.

by moboiler on Jul 10, 2008 12:09 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Mulder, Holliday, Burnett, et al

Ricky Horton got it wrong about Mulder. His problem isn’t his slightly lower arm slot. His problem is that his timing is completely messed up. His arm action looks terrible. Stick a fork in him.

Between Skip and Ludwick, I think we’re OK in the OF department. I think pitching is where we need shoring up. I say put Duncan and Reyes in any deal.

I think getting AJ Burnett would be a disaster, and I don’t think there’s any way the Cards would do that deal. His mechanics are terrible.

by thepainguy on Jul 10, 2008 10:35 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah

I don’t want us to get that guy

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 10, 2008 12:39 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wainright.....

So was he able to start throwing yesterday, nor not? Alot of talk about it last night, but I don’t know if I ever saw anything definitive. Be a major setback if he isn’t on pace to come back after the break.

by SoonerfanTU on Jul 10, 2008 10:44 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I really have enjoyed watching this team play

But I feel if we are going to make the playoffs this season, we are going to have to do it with what we have. Burnett and Wolf will cost us big prospects and I don’t know that they add many more wins to the tally. I would love to see Reyes get the first shot and/or Boggs after that. They may not be pretty but I think I speak for most of us when I say that Garcia is not nearly ready for the major leagues.

If there are any solid offensive middle infielders available that we could get for Anderson + ptbnl, I would be all ears. Miles isn’t going anywhere, nor should he. He has been as consistent as anyone. I do question whether Ryan is an everyday player and if he isn’t, we should really consider getting someone else. He seems to be regressing offensively

by riotmute on Jul 10, 2008 10:45 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Jarrod Washburn

Any interest? He’s sucking it up now for Seattle, but who isn’t these days. Maybe Dunc could work his magin on him. He could probably be had on the cheap.

"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon

by DJ87 on Jul 10, 2008 10:46 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

The only reason to get Jerrod Washburn

is so some other team doesn’t acquire him and throw him against the Cardinals—this club can’t hit soft throwing lefties for shit it seems like

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 10, 2008 11:10 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Guess at lineup today.....

Looks like righties hit over .300 against Moyer.

Mather LF
Ludwick RF
Pujols 1B
Glaus 3B
Ankiel CF
Molina C
Kennedy 2B
P
Izturis SS

by SoonerfanTU on Jul 10, 2008 11:21 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I'll try too

Miles 2B
Ludwick RF
Pujols 1B
Glaus 3B
Ankiel CF
Molina C
Mather LF
Looper P
Ryan SS

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 10, 2008 11:32 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Replace Kennedy with Miles..

And I think you might have it nailed exactly.

by mikedallas45 on Jul 10, 2008 11:35 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

yeah... you may be right

I didn’t look at the splits, Kennedy hits Moyer pretty well…... not that means anything. Could see Schumaker and Duncan as well as their splits are decent against Moyer as well. Weird….. lefties?

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 10, 2008 11:47 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They do...

But only righties on teams that aren’t the Cardinals. With the way the pitching set up in this series I was sure we were going to get swept—beating two out of three lefties they way this club hits them would be a miracle. I just hope Looper keeps the ball in the park and on the ground today….

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 10, 2008 12:04 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

barton?

crabman hasn’t started a game in forever, you’d think with all these lefty SPs he’d be due for one, no?

go cards, o's, and phillies.

...boiler up.

by moboiler on Jul 10, 2008 12:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

He's on the DL

Well who the hell can see forever?

by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2008 12:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh

whahahhahahappen?

go cards, o's, and phillies.

...boiler up.

by moboiler on Jul 10, 2008 12:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Broke a bone

in his right wrist/hand

Well who the hell can see forever?

by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2008 12:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No, bruised

his hand-didn’t break it. He also came down with foot fungus and will have to spend, oh, 30 days or so rehabbing his soles-or until someone in the outfield runs into a wall, whichever comes first.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 10, 2008 12:20 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

x-ray

revealed a fracture, if KTRS is to believed.

Well who the hell can see forever?

by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2008 12:22 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I think you can just see it

if you squint hard and look into a microscope.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 10, 2008 12:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Don't agree with the Garcia move

Either he is not yet ready or he is injured. The control issues sound like a barking elbow to me. Boggs was good enough, Reyes is good enough. Even Todd is probably a better option right now.

Anyone else notice the large difference between Tony’s public stance with Mo in charge and his stance last year when WJ was still around? Last year Tony was all about waiting for Mulder and waiting for Carpenter. I don’t know if he is just jockeying with MO or if he knows something about the status of Carpenter and Wainwright that the club is not admitting.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jul 10, 2008 11:29 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Now theres some out of the box thinking….seriously, I’m suddenly sold on backing off Garcia!

by cardschinmusic on Jul 11, 2008 4:43 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A couple of things...

1) Any idea what it would cost to get Wolf? You guessed on AJ, but not Wolf in the original post.
2) I completely agree with the needs lied out there…either MI or SP, however, I find it funny that this is the timing it is brought up only because we’ve allowed 4 runs in two games to the Phillies.
3) Why can’t picking up Aurilia mean Kennedy or Izturis is gone instead of Miles or Ryan? That point wasn’t addressed.

I think that is all for now.

by stlfan on Jul 10, 2008 11:31 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Wolfe has like 112 no trade teams in his contract and 24 of them are in the midwest….doesnt mean he would’nt sign off on dropping a team or two in late Aug, but he LIKES the sunny clims of SD.

by cardschinmusic on Jul 11, 2008 4:46 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I see others addressed it but I did get a chuckle

out of Bradley and Spillbourghs just because both are currently injured. Both would be fine additions if healthy.

It would be kinda humorous that after all the Cubs/Brian Roberts rumors over the last 6 months, if the Cardinals were able to swing the deal for Roberts for much cheaper now that the Cubs have blown their farm system on Harden.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 10, 2008 11:42 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Also, why do people want Randy Wolf?

I don’t think he’d bring anything to this club that Mitchell Boggs wouldn’t excepted increased age.

Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS

by Hardcore Legend on Jul 10, 2008 11:47 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

disagree...

Wolf has been pretty good over the last two seasons with LA and San Diego—much better than Mitch Boggs has been for us this season.

I think he’d be worth looking at if he can be had cheaply—that just doesn’t seem likely to me.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 10, 2008 11:59 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOL

The only guy the Cubs traded that had a future with the team is Sean Gallagher, the rest of the guys either already had their chance (Murton), were never going to get a chance (Patterson), or absolutely buried organizationally (Donaldson)

Good try, though.

by Santos Sorrow on Jul 10, 2008 12:23 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

They keep telling themselves...

that they aren’t worried about us, but…..

They’re still worried about us…...................

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 10, 2008 1:38 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

LOL?

Most people called this trade equal or favored the A’s, and when harden gets hurt we’ll see then who’s doing the laughing

"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda" - Rev. Jerry Falwell

by elirock83 on Jul 10, 2008 12:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

I keep hearing that...

and I chuckle, because Murton and Patterson fit the Oakland organization very nicely, Gallagher doesn’t walk many people so he will be a #2 or #3 starter for Oakland for his cost controlled years, and Cub fans are going to be wondering how they got suckered into taking an arb-eligible reliever and an injured pitcher for 3 good prospects…

IMO, the Cubs gave up more than the Brewers because they gave up three major league ready players and a prospect for an oft injured pitcher and a reliever they didn’t really need….the Brewers gave up a guy who had no future with the team, LaPorta (who isn’t big league ready anyway), and some other prospects to get the 2007 AL Cy Young award winner.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 10, 2008 1:48 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

the time has come boys and girls

Carpenter for kinsler, hamilton, and a starting pitcher….DO IT!!!!

if we can get burnett on the cheap(like for a hardy value) then we have to do it…i have faith that dave duncan can work out his issues….remember a couple of years ago we were big players when he was a FA

by VolsnCards5 on Jul 10, 2008 11:49 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Hey I threw out Rasmus for Hanley/Hadley Ramirez earlier

I might as well throw out Rasmus for Kinsler. We’ve got other pieces Texas could use like Duncan, Rasmus and pitching prospects.

I believe that Rasmus will be better than any outfielder we have on our team currently, but I also feel his incremental value over what we have will be less than the difference between Kinsler and any MI available in the next few years.

by birdo rojo on Jul 10, 2008 11:59 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Kinsler

Might be the one guy I’d be willing to deal Rasmus for that could actually happen (Hanley won’t be traded but for an entire farm system’s worth of prospects)—he’s young, in a contract until 2013 and provides pop from a middle infield position, something the Cardinals haven’t had in a LONG time. I think it would cost more than Colby however and I’m not sure who else the Rangers would want, but I would guess a young pitcher.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jul 10, 2008 12:02 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Milton Bradley

DH Milton Bradley was scratched from the lineup with a sore knee, and manager Ron Washington acknowledged any time in the outfield for the rest of the year may be fleeting, at best, for the All-Star. “When I can get him out there, I will,” Washington said. “But I won’t be fretting about it if we don’t get him out there. Our main objective is to keep him in the lineup as much as possible and if that means his time in the outfield is spotty, it will be spotty.”

by Carps on Jul 10, 2008 11:52 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

You should cite your sources

Just FYI

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 10, 2008 12:43 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bernie's Column Seeks a Middle Ground

Here’s Mo’s quote, which is reasonable:

“My responsibility is not just for the next two months, but for the long haul,” Mozeliak said. “I understand we’re in the race. And we want to continue to be in the race. And more importantly, we want to win the race. So I want to find ways to support what we have right now, and we’re going to do our due diligence to get there. And if in the end we don’t have the horses to do it, and there was something else out there (in a trade) that was better, then obviously that’s how I’ll be judged.”

by bgh on Jul 10, 2008 11:54 AM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bernie really thinks he's Solomon

arbitrating between La Russa and Mozeliak. Maybe he is, in a way, but talking about Tony’s contract being up at the end of next year isn’t helping matters. Moreover, basically what he’s doing is not arguing for a middle ground, but for Mo’s position. The front office has never been opposed to picking up a lefthanded reliever, and in fact has been looking for one since the beginning of the season. It’s the “big bat” and starter that separate the two factions, and there is no compromise there unless we’re talking about another Jeff Weaver.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 10, 2008 11:58 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Exaggeration

I think Bernie is blowing the gulf between Mo and TLR out of proportion in the wake of TLR’s “demand” for help in the everyday lineup. TLR knew the score coming into the season. Now that we are well-positioned nearing the trade deadline, he is advocating for his team and its chances to bolster the club’s morale. With Wainwright out for another month and Flores not performing (whether on the DL or not), it seems that pitching, as LB as consistently argued, should be the focus. You can’t tell me that TLR would not be satisfied with a LOOGY and a righthanded hitting OFer to platoon with our plethora of lefties.

by bgh on Jul 10, 2008 12:06 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

It's Strauss who got Bernie going

I heard the interview between Bernie and Strauss last night….. Strauss sounded concerned about some of the things LaRussa said to him…. “Neutron Bomb” was Strauss comment about TLR comments.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 10, 2008 12:13 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Oh Christ!

It would appear Tony has threatened to leave after the season if the front office doesn’t step up and help out.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 10, 2008 12:28 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Are we "the public" being played?

to increase the readership of each of these guys columns? Wouldn’t doubt it a bit. Strauss column didn’t exactly drop any bomb shells he alluded to in last night interview.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 10, 2008 12:32 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Strauss is pretty careful

not to get in the middle of these things. Remember, he’s a beat writer, not a columnist like Miklasz. If he fouls his relationship with LaRussa, he’s screwed as a reporter. I think if he hinted at something strongly, it happened.

by Red in Chicago on Jul 10, 2008 12:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

lineup

A. Kennedy, 2B
R. Ludwick, RF
A. Pujols, 1B
T. Glaus, 3B
R. Ankiel,
Y. Molina, C
C. Duncan, LF
B. Looper, P
B. Ryan, SS

by hoofhearted-pujols on Jul 10, 2008 12:06 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

AK over Grit?

Interesting. I figured we’d get Grit with Moyer soft-tossing today. How’d AK perform against Moyer back in the days of yore when AK had a halo and Moyer was a Mariner?

by bgh on Jul 10, 2008 12:11 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

you would think

Miles would make a better leadoff hitter

strikeouts from left-center

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 10, 2008 1:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

WTF

if Mather isn’t good enough to play OF against LHPs, then send him back down. Grit could be the extra OF and probably coach up the other guys while he’s at it.

I don’t know how TLR can moan about wanting to win now and then send out Duncan and Schumaker to hit against LHPs. It might make some sense in a transitional year to find out if they are everyday players, but Duncan is .125/.152/.281 and Schu is .173/.253/.200 v. LHPs. I don’t see much sense of urgency or help for the team morale in that decision.

I would really love to know the secret thoughts of the other players on the continuing coddling of Duncan at the expense of the team. He is back to .200/.333/.200 in the last seven days. I guess he will get to ride one decent week for the rest of the season.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on Jul 10, 2008 4:30 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

poor schu

guy plays great yesterday but TLR must like experience against Moyer.

by enoscountry on Jul 10, 2008 12:12 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

guess he wants experience againsts experience

after all, moyer has been pitching since before prohibition

by mattybobo on Jul 10, 2008 1:24 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

ankiel

plays EVERYWHERE

go cards, o's, and phillies.

...boiler up.

by moboiler on Jul 10, 2008 12:19 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

So I don't get to see Garcia in the Futures Game

I suppose this will work. I still am thinking he will only be up for awhile anyway.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 10, 2008 12:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Game thread in the works?

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 10, 2008 12:45 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Nope

just to shake things up and keep everyone on their toes.

Well who the hell can see forever?

by Alxfritz on Jul 10, 2008 12:49 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Gotta keep it fresh sometimes

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jul 10, 2008 12:56 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

mr aj

an earlier post had it right about motivated sellers. if the jays want to move him, then by all means the folks that call the shots should be all ears. He has good stuff and is attainable for (imho) not alot of top tier prospects

"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda" - Rev. Jerry Falwell

by elirock83 on Jul 10, 2008 1:02 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

if they jays want to sell

"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda" - Rev. Jerry Falwell

by elirock83 on Jul 10, 2008 1:03 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

time to buy into A's firesale

2b: Ellis
2b/OF Patterson
OF: Emil Brown
Lefty Reliever: Embree
SP: Blanton
Closer: Street

i could see a deal matching up

by Asfan4ever723 on Jul 10, 2008 2:54 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

No Emil Brown.

I suffered through him while living in KC. He’ll put up numbers slightly worse than Ankiel with worse defense in a corner outfield position and a worse arm.

by stlfan on Jul 10, 2008 7:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

oh yeah...

I’m fine with the others for the right price.

by stlfan on Jul 10, 2008 7:34 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

but that comparison makes no sense

most OFs have worse defense and a worse arm than ANK, no?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jul 10, 2008 10:46 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

How about this?

You’ll get a guy who strikes out 3 times as much as he walks (we have enough of those), a guy who gets on base under a .300 clip (we have enough middle infielders), and a guy who plays worse defense than Duncan in a corner spot, doesn’t give his all on some plays, and is a clubhouse distraction…i.e. bringing a pellet gun and hitting a media member with it.

by stlfan on Jul 11, 2008 10:16 PM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Emil Brown has absolutly no value

there’s a reason why we call him DFA

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Jul 17, 2008 2:34 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A's "Fire Sale"

A’s trade chips.

2B Mark Ellis – Average hitter, best or second best defensive 2B in Major Leagues.
LHP Alan Embree – Veteran lefty Setup guy who throws nothing but mid 90’s fastballs.
RHP Keith Foulke – Veteran righty setup guy, former closer.
RHP Joe Blanton – #3 Starter who never gets injured and pitches a lot of innings, but not much else.
RHP Justin Duchscherer - MLB ERA Leader, converted back to Starter after being one of the top Setup Guys/Psudo Closers in the majors.
3B Eric Chavez - Buy low candidate, inured a lot over past few years, and finally got surgery to fix the problems. Recovering this year but after that, will still play GG defense and could regain bat. Big contract. A’s might not move him simply because there’s no one in the system @ 3B.
SS Bobby Crosby – Finally healthy, putting up slightly above average #’s for an SS (not that thats saying much) after several freak injury plagued seasons.

There are several others the A’s could trade, though they might not because their value won’t peak for a couple more years till they are “Established”; Greg Smith, Dana Eveland, Santiago Casilla, Joey Devine, Andrew Brown, Ryan Sweeney.

facepalm.jpg

by Zonis on Jul 17, 2008 2:42 AM EDT to parent up reply reply actions actions   0 recs

A righty bat

I love Ryan Spillborghs, but he went down with a strained oblique the other night; he’s going to be out for a while.

by Perry on Jul 10, 2008 7:49 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

Bradley concerns

not that this means anythign but i went to two games while i was in h-town and one was a rangers game. Him along with doug mathis a dl landed pitcher were the two rangers that signed. For a guy labled a virus he signed down the line went and did bp and then signed some more buy the dugout. Barring his season ending tantrum that who knows what really happened last yr he was a model citizen there… I think his healthy is a biggern concern than clubhouse issues. my 2 cents..and not that signing makes a differnce but i thought it was cool

I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2

by punchinjudy on Jul 10, 2008 11:24 PM EDT reply reply actions actions   0 recs

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