july 1 miscellany
by lboros on Jul 1, 2008 8:46 AM EDT
466 comments
baseball . . . . go figure. despite playing without albert pujols for most of the month, the cardinals led the national league in runs scored during june, at 136 --- 5 runs a game, their best month this year by a longshot. they finished 2nd in the league in slugging, a category in which they’d ranked 9th in the league during the first two months; their 36 homers were good for 3d in the nl during june (they had been 10th in the league heading into the month). even their luck turned around: the cards recorded the league’s second-highest reached-on-errors total during june (13), a category in which they had ranked dead last during the first two months. maybe opposing defenses stopped paying attention w/ pujols out of the lineup. . . . . so the cards reach the (more or less) halfway point in the season ranked 4th in the nl in runs, 5th in slugging, and 2nd in obp.
the starting rotation also thrived without its leader in june --- actually, without its two best pitchers, as wellemeyer and wainwright combined to make only 5 starts during the month, throwing just over 28 innings. st louis starters ranked 3d in the league in era for the month anyway. good starting pitching, good run support --- with a competent month from the bullpen, the cards might have flagged down the cubs. here’s a stat that’ll break your heart: the cards led 16 games during june after 7 innings, and were tied in another 4; they only trailed 7 times. if they’d held all the leads and split the ties, they would’ve gone 18-9 during june and passed the cubs --- with pujols and wainwright both out for most of the month. whatever; can’t blame izzy this time. . . . . the cards enter july ranked 6th in the league in era. they have allowed the 2d fewest walks in the league and the 4th fewest homers; the defense takes care of the rest.
one other statistical oddity i noticed while fishing around this morning: despite batting the pitcher 8th, the cardinals rank 11th in the league in OPS out of that batting-order slot. one of the teams below them, milwaukee, also bats the pitcher 8th --- but 4 of the clubs below the cardinals are using position players in the 8 hole, and still getting less offense. it gets better: the cardinals rank 4th in the league (!) in isolated power out of the #8 slot. . . . on the other hand, out of the #9 hole they only rank 5th in the league in ISO --- milwaukee is batting jason kendall there, so no surprise that they are ahead of the cards, but chicago, arizona, and washington all get more sock from their (mostly) pitchers than the cards do from iz2 / kennedy / ryan.
turning to last night’s game: kyle lohse dusted off his curveball, throwing it 21 times against the mets --- 20 percent of his pitches. early in the year duncan talked about wanting lohse to make better use of his curve, a pretty good pitch that kyle had stopped throwing over the years. in 2005-06 it virtually disappeared from his repertoire. he started using it again last year as an auxiliary pitch, and in the first month of 2008 he heeded duncan’s advice and began to throw it regularly --- it accounted for almost 10 percent of his pitches in april. for whatever reason he junked it in may --- just 4 percent of his pitches --- and before last night he had thrown the curve just 3.7 percent of the time during june. (thank you fangraphs for all that data.) but last night lohse used the bender to great effect: threw it for strikes 2/3 of the time and got 4 outs on it without allowing a base hit.
i was glad to see the homer by duncan, but i think he got a little too excited about it. his next time up, apparently trying to hit another one, he took 2 gigantic swings at pitches out of the zone and got himself out; in the at-bat after that (against heilmann) he whiffed at another bad pitch before regaining his discipline. a big component of duncan’s mini-rally --- .856 ops in the last 10 days, dating back to the start of the interleague trip --- has been improved discipline at the plate: he has walked 7 times (one intentional) in his last 34 plate appearances. to draw his previous 7 walks, it had taken duncan 99 plate appearances, nearly 3 times as many; he was flailing at everything. the homer wasn’t all that impressive, and duncan is still anything but "fixed" --- he did strike out twice last night --- but any contribution from that quarter is welcome.
ditto mulder. he threw strikes (10 out of 14 pitches), and he threw with more velocity than we’ve ever seen from him in st louis --- nearly every pitch was a fastball (12 of 14), and all but one reached or exceeded 90 mph according to pitch fX, with a max of 92 (attained 5 times). he even threw a fastball past somebody, ramon castro, to get a strikeout on a 3-2 pitch. i’d be the last guy to get excited about his performance --- indeed, just to be a jerk i’ll point out that mulder’s first inning back from surgery last year also was scoreless (1 hit, no walks), and he started getting hammered immediately thereafter --- but i have to admit he threw harder and displayed better command than i expected. only one of the 4 balls in play against him was hit on the ground, but with his new arm slot i we shouldn’t expect him to pound the bottom 1/10th of the strike zone the way that he used to; he doesn’t get on top of the ball anymore, and that’s by design. lord only knows how this experiment will turn out; the cards have tried crazier things and had success with them, so maybe this will work out too. here's hoping so.
the season half over, and still so very much to learn about these cardinals . . . . . .
0 recs |
466 comments
Email
Print
Comments
More props for VEB
You get a mention in, believe it or not, Maximum PC magazine when the writer mentions his favorite baseball blogs.
by sdrone on Jul 1, 2008 8:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Are we nerds then?
You did say Maximum PC and not Maxim, right?
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Jul 1, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Good half season...
I have to admit that I have had a blast watching this team play….more so than other years recently. They seem to hav aquired a bit of a grinder ball mentality—average pitching, good defense, and an order that takes walks will win you a lot of games.
by BigJawnMize on Jul 1, 2008 9:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Steve Phillips
On David Wright’s error that allowed Miles to scamper to second and then be batted in by Pujols, how horrible was Steve Phillips’ analysis? He actually criticized Castillo for not “anticipating” the poor throw and sprinting to the wall to back it up, citing this as the difference between winning and losing baseball. Apparently Castillo’s spidey sense wasn’t tingling, which would have allowed him to anticipate the bad throw. The limping Castillo, running at full speed would never have kept Miles from second. Does ESPN not require their analysts to have anything remotely intelligent or insightful to say as a prerequisite of their being hired?
by bgh on Jul 1, 2008 9:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ha....
Yeah, while Steve Phillips, Joe Morgan, et al. are pretty horrible, Phillips did make me chuckle a bit when they were discussing concussions and he said something like “I must have had a concussion when I made the deal for Mo Vaughn.”
He is VERY bad (and still somehow convinced that he’s either a GM or will soon be hired as a GM), but that made me laugh.
by goodymobb on Jul 1, 2008 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And a second concussion
...when he traded away Kazmir.
Inner Monologue of ESPN Exec: “Steve Phillips brought Mo Vaughn to the Mets and traded away Scott Kazmir. Clearly, his baseball knowledge is marginal and insight nonexistent. He’s in the Joe Morgan mold, though, with a bronzed tan and a perfectly groomed goatee, to boot. Plus, he sounds articulate. Lets hire him. He’ll fool flyover country.”
by bgh on Jul 1, 2008 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is he the one who got rid of Kazmir?
I thought they were talking about Kazmir and in that context, it sounded like he wasn’t taking ownership of that turd, er…trade.
Side note, yesterday’s JoeChat on FJM.com was absolutely hilarious.
by goodymobb on Jul 1, 2008 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
link
in case anyone’s interested
http://www.firejoemorgan.com/2008/06/sic-semper-tyrannus.html
by goodymobb on Jul 1, 2008 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No
I believe it was Duquette that traded Kazmir. Phillips did draft David Wright, for what its worth.
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
by cardzfan24 on Jul 1, 2008 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he was making a point about lack of hustle
he just picked the wrong guy….Ryan Church was way out of position—he should have been backing up the play. Had he been where he’s supposed to be, Miles wouldn’t have taken second because the throw would have gone right where Church would have been covering….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 1, 2008 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trade Sidetrack
I thought that I’d get us started on a trade tangent since the P-D is reporting rumor and inuendo from a “national baseball writer” this morning that the Cards are interested in Matt Holliday and Brian Fuentes.
by bgh on Jul 1, 2008 9:07 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
You'd have to be interested in both of those guys
if they could be landed without trading away too much. Holliday is likely to be expensive, but Fuentes may not be, and he plugs the bigger gap. What’s he worth in trade?
by StanTheManFan on Jul 1, 2008 9:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If we could get Holliday without giving up the raz, i'd do it
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 1, 2008 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw that too
I don’t know why we’d be interested in Holiday, to be honest. He’s a good outfielder and a great hitter, even though he’s having a down year this year (for his standards) but that also means he’ll be super-expensive and we already have more outfielders than we know what to do with—all of the young-ish, cost-controlled variety. Don’t get me wrong, I’d like him playing for the Cards, but I suppose there are more pressing needs than improving our already solid outfield.
by Ray Lankford on Jul 1, 2008 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, so long as.....
The Rox would take back a couple of OF’s (Duncan and ?), the deal would work out just fine.
Wonder what else it would take? Anderson? Craig?
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 1, 2008 9:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dunc oughta do it
Duncan for Holliday and Fuentes. The Rockies know they could flip Duncan to the Giants for Lincecum, Cain, and Sanchez. After all, as everyone knows, the Giants are looking for a left-handed first baseman with power.
by mojowo11 on Jul 1, 2008 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno...
I think we better throw in Kennedy, just to make sure the pot is sweet enough…but we should definitely wait until Iz2 gets back healthy. :)
by stlfan on Jul 1, 2008 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe
They’d take Mulder too. And maybe Reyes. And maybe a bag of baseball. Well, O’Dowd isn’t quite that dumb. We may have to eat the $35 on that bag of balls.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 1, 2008 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I would only be interested in Holliday
if he could still hit 81 games in Coors field.
Career splits: Home – .362/.425/.654, Away – .277/.340/.350
2008 splits: Home – .353/.427/.597, Away – .309/.401/.472
2007 splits: Home – .376/.435/.722, Away – .301/.374/.485
Now if he could signed to a deal that was based on his performance away from Coors then that would be OK, but he is not as sexy as people think. His away splits are only marginally better than Skip Schumaker.
Fuentes is a different matter – bring him on!
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 1, 2008 11:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hmmmmm
those away splits look a lot better than Skip’s actual numbers…so he’d be some kind of improvement. I hate home/road splits—you play more games at your home ball park, so you should hit better there, you’re more comfortable with the surroundings and your eyes pick up things better. Obviously this one is more severe, but he’s still a pretty good player away from home….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 1, 2008 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes but he wont justify the money boras is looking for IMO
cause his numbers will go down when he stops playing at coors 81x a year
by FunkeeC on Jul 1, 2008 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
so if by chance we actually got holliday
would we bat him in front or behind pujols
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say behind.....
Skip RF
Miles 2B
Pujols 1B
Holliday LF
Ankiel CF
Glaus 3B
Molina C
P
Ryan SS
Looking at that, however, I could see Ankiel hitting 2nd, and Miles towards the bottom. Though the even more I look at it, Holliday 2nd wouldn’t be terrible:
Skip
Holliday
Pujols
Ankiel
Glaus
Molina
Miles
P
Ryan
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 1, 2008 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
does he bat third with the rox?
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess you're assuming that
we’d have to trade Ludwick to get him then? If not, I see it looking more like this:
Miles/Ryan
Ludwick
Pujols
Holliday
Ankiel
Glaus
Molina
Pitcher
Ryan/Miles
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 1, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that is a wet dream right there
They say I look like yadier molina
by ANDYAK47 on Jul 1, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His road numbers the past two yars are pretty damn good
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 1, 2008 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if by an 850 ops for a OF you mean pretty damn good
cant we find some cost controlled players to do a similar job
by FunkeeC on Jul 1, 2008 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes
Yes we can. A certain Memphis CF comes to mind.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2008 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what's wrong with both of them in the outfield?
by Tackle Box on Jul 1, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are we planning on blowing
up the current OF situation?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2008 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What outfield situation?
Okay, you’d probably have to include one of Ludwick, Skip, or Ankiel in the trade (I’m guessing Ludwick). But, I don’t know.
As for your OF situation, if you are including Ludwick, Ankiel and Skip, you could keep 1 or 2 of them to man right field. If you’re talking about Duncan and Barton, who cares? If you’re talking about Mather and Stavinoha, again who cares?
Not that i think it will ever happen, but an outfield next year of Holliday, Rasmus and Ankiel/Ludwick/Skip (pick one, trade the rest for all I care) is pretty good. Then, if the team still has Barton (and I think we all assume he’ll spend plenty of time in Memphis next year), Mather and Robinson at AAA/MLB backup.
I guess I fail to see what you are asking because I don’t see Ludwick, Ankiel and Skip as long-timers in this outfield. You’re already going to have to move somebody to get Rasmus in the lineup, and I believe Ank and Lud are free agents anyway, right?
by Tackle Box on Jul 1, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Luds stock is pretty high
if he’s a free agent I hope they explore the possibility of trading him
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me rephrase that
I hope they trade him if we can make the team better for the long haul
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So you are replacing Ankiel and Duncan or Ludwick
with Rasmus and Holliday’s $100 M contract?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also, for a trade to work with Colorado
it’s going to take some of our better prospects (obviously). This include Rasmus, Anderson, Jay, Shane Robinson or Daryl Jones for position players and Garcia/Todd for pitchers.
That is 4 OF’rs and a catcher. We have depth there but not if we deal it for a guy who is putting up Skip’s OPS and will cost us a $100 contract.
Leave the OF as it is if Holliday is the best increase we can hope for and continue to use the cost controlled players we have to fill in the gaps.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
let me repeat
I DON’T THINK THIS WILL EVER HAPPEN.
But, you said you could get the same production out of Rasmus.
I then said, “what’s wrong with both of them in the outfield?” Pretty much leaving it as that.
You then said, “are we planning on blowing up the outfield situation?”
So, I told you how an outfield would work with having Rasmus AND Holliday in the outifled at the same time. While also saying I DON’T THINK THIS WILL HAPPEN.
Then you freak out telling me we’d have to trade Rasmus+ to get him.
I thought we were talking about Rasmus and Holliday in the same outfield? Why do you insist on changing the “discussion” just to be right and assume I’ll never notice?
And one more time, just so we’re all clear. I DON’T THINK THIS WILL EVER HAPPEN.
by Tackle Box on Jul 1, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are you rambling on about?
You created an argument that wasn’t there and then railed against me for changing it?
You said, “Why not have both”. We’d be replacing 2 of our 3 starting OF’ers with Holliday and Rasmus. That would constitute as ‘blowing up’ the current OF situation.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Why wouldn’t you consider replacing two of Rick Ankiel, Ryan Ludwick, and Skip Schumaker with Matt Holliday and Colby Rasmus? Do you really think having those three aformentioned players in the outfield is not only realistic, but a good idea for next year?
And for the record, I fail to see where I started an argument. I threw out the statement wondering why it would be so wrong to have both Holliday and Rasmus in the same outfield. That’s only creating an argument if another party is looking for that to be the start an argument.
by Tackle Box on Jul 1, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Holliday is a defensive downgrade over
those 3 and I don’t see how devoting a ton of money to a guy who is more likely to post an .800 OPS as he is a 1.000 OPS is a better option than continuing to use the cost controlled OF’ers we have now and if they fail, replace them with the depth we have in the system.
Holliday isn’t young, either. He’ll be 29 on Opening Day next year, within 6 months of our current OF crop.
I’m just dubious of an investment to Holliday when the more glarring holes are in the IF. If we wanted to get a player an impact player at the deadline and devote a ton of cash to them, I’d rather it be Dan Uggla and his double digit arbitration contract next year.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have absolutley no problem
with focusing on Uggla as opposed to Holliday, and i have yet to lobby for Holliday. If that were the direction the team wanted to go, then I’d be happy.
Just don’t discredit a guy like Matt Holliday because we have depth at Memphis and Springfield. Most of those guys (outside of Rasmus hopefully) will be lucky to out-produce Skip. Holliday has, will and will continue to outproduce all three of our current outfielders for as long as he plays. (the only one’d I’d think could come close is Ludwick, and I’m not sold on his long-term staying power).
As for defense. who cares if he’s better than Ankiel? He won’t be playing center, I’m pretty sure. And while not as fast as Skip, do you really think Ludwick and Skip are so much of an upgrade considering Holliday plays in such a spacious outifled 81 games a year + San Francisco, and PETCO’s outfields about 10 games each a year?
Once again, I’m not lobby for a Holliday trade. But I will say he’d upgrade our lineup immediately.
by Tackle Box on Jul 1, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Holiday is an improvement, but how much of an improvement over what we already have? And how much are we going to have to pay (salary and prospects) for this improvement? I think the answers are “slight” and “too much”
by Ray Lankford on Jul 1, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Considering that Skip can't really hit lefties
might be reason enough to consider an upgrade. Comparing Skips RHP heavy stats against Holliday’s overall stats can be slightly misleading.
by Tackle Box on Jul 1, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Current OF stats
Schu – .300/.364/.439
Ank – .259/.334/.509
Lud- .285/.362/.574
Holliday on the road: .309/.401/.472. Except for a couple of points of SLG this is his career best road split. His career numbers are: .277/.340/.450
Looks like a #2 hitter. Away from Coors he has 4 HR and 12 RBI in 142 PAs
All three of our current OFs, plus Glaus hit better on the road. Of the run producers, only El Hombre is doing better at Busch. I am no expert on the performance effects of Busch III and I didn’t bother to find Holliday’s numbers at Busch III, but it looks like there is a chance that Holliday’s road numbers might even be a stretch for his projected performance as a Cardinal. Of course, none of the road parks in his division are particularly hitter friendly, so maybe he will do better than I think.
Not a bad player by any stretch, but not worth any where near Pujols money, not to mention the package it would take to get him. Let’s get hitters who play in pitchers’ parks and pitchers who pitch in hitters’ parks.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 1, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why are we dismissing Holliday's current year splits
as a small sample size, but we then expect that Ankiel, Ludwick, and Schumaker are going to continue to produce at this same level? Ludwick and Ankiel have been slumping. Schumaker cannot hit LHs. Holliday has produced at a higher level than each of these guys and has done so for a longer period. I think part of the explanation for his road splits is found in comfort, etc. Further, he plays a larger number of his road games in PETCO and Dodger stadium. He crushes the ball in the STL. He is an improvement over all of our current OFs.
No he does not address need at 2B. However, if we get more consitent production out of one of our OF spots(which I believe we would), then it can cover for the weaker MI. That leaves only 2 holes in the line-up and the Kennedy/Miles tandem has been decent at 2B and Izturis’ D makes him valuable to help improve the overall team defense.
Holliday is under contract for next year. We will have money freeing up in the next couple of years(Glaus, Mulder, Encarnacion, and Kennedy that I can think of off the top of my head). We can make a run at signing him long term and if we fail we get a couple of compensatory picks.
If we could give up a current OF, Anderson, one of Garcia, Mortenson, Boggs, Todd, McClellan for him then I say do it. I might even throw in another mid-level prospect. We still have several cost controlled SPs/RPs, Rasmus, and most of our current OF still in tact. Wy not do it for that? We can recount to many stories of prospects turned busts to not turn them into proven ALL-STARS and near MVPS. This guy finished 2nd in the MVP last year.
by CardFaninTTown on Jul 1, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ankiel has been showing signs of comming out of his slump.
And again. Why pay Holliday when you can bring up Rasmus?
by Evilfrog on Jul 1, 2008 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why not have both
if we can swing a deal for him without giving up Rasmus, we don’t have to rush a player from AAA who has only been hitting at AAA for a month.
by CardFaninTTown on Jul 1, 2008 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im not against getting Holliday
So much that Im against giving up anything for him. I still don’t want to see us go on a shopping spree. I’d rather see us fall 1 game short of the wild card this year than to bring in a few high price player at the expense of our farm system.
by Evilfrog on Jul 1, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fair enough
And I wouldn’t be against getting Uggla, but the Marlins are in it for now and maybe for the season if the Phillies keep tanking. Don’t know that there is an upgrade out there for the MI.
To me Holliday is a proven great player. He has been excellent over the last three seasons. He would be a dynamite player hitting behind Pujols. I wouldn’t decimate the farm system for him and I don’t think his price tag will be as high as some have suggested. I may be wrong, but if we could give up a current OF or Mather, one of our top 5 SP prospects, and Anderson, I would swing the deal. That leaves us Rasmus, 4 SP prospects at AA or higher, we would still have Perez and Motte for the pen. I think that is a no brainer. I dont think the Rockies can command a 4 or 5 prospects for a rental. And if we rent him for a year and a half and he leaves we get compensatory picks.
by CardFaninTTown on Jul 1, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What do you mean by dismissing his current year splits?
For his career, he’s been less of a hitter on the road than he has been at home.
That is the fear. If he could be a 1.000 OPS hitter once leaving Coors, no one would care what we gave up to get him outside of Rasmus and Todd. The fear is, though, that he is a product of his enviroment.
Look at Kaz Matsui. 2007: H-.864/A-.638. He goes to Houston and guess which hitter he was? 2008: H-.656/A-.697.
Is Matt Holliday a better hitter than Kaz? Of course he is. But the fear, as I said, is that he is a product of his enviroment. .850+ OPS from a corner OF spot? Sounds good. But at what cost?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2008 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you really think Holliday wouldn't improve his ops
moving from playing the majority of his games in Coors, San Fran, PETCO, and Dodger Stadium to Busch, Wrigley, Miller, GAC, Minute Maid and PNC?
by Tackle Box on Jul 1, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For his career
OPS
Petco – .658
Dodger – .662
ATT – .764
Coors – 1.080
Bank – .798
Busch III – 1.350
PNC – .830
Miller – .892
Enron – .712
GABP- .730
Wrigley – .652
I don’t know what to make of this. His Busch Stadium numbers are ungodly in 11 games.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2008 4:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
I don’t know what to make of it eithe since “his career” takes into account ‘04 and ‘05, which you can basically throw out the window when talking about today’s Matt Holliday. I think we can all agree that he matured or whatever as a hitter and ballplayer beginning in 2006.
by Tackle Box on Jul 1, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd love to see a park adjusted OPS
for Holliday’s road games. If it was an improvement, I’d be more optimistic but the huge disparity between road and home is too suspicious to me to commit to Holliday. He’d be moving to a rather ‘suppressing’ home park, which would negate any gains he made in the 9 games a year he played in each of those road parks.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2008 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There is improvement
in his numbers over his last two year’s road splits versus his career road splits. I am saying we are gambling by saying Schu, Ludwick, and Ankiel will continue to produce at the same level. Holliday is an all-star and a potential MVP player and I think everyone is over-valuing are current players/prospects.
What would Reyes have fetched three years ago? Is there not more risk in counting on prospects to produce than a proven player with 3-4 years of production to base our decision on?
I don’t care what we do one way or the other. There is a limit to how much I would give up for him. However, a look at that line-up is a lot more imposing. We could seriously challenge for the division and that World Series with him added to this line-up. And if we could add Fuentes in the process, then I say we have to try to make it work.
by CardFaninTTown on Jul 1, 2008 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed holliday is proven
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
way too much
for the differential he provides, looking in my crystal ball that is
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
by sportsman on Jul 1, 2008 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as good as Holliday is
He doesn’t seem to be quite the slugger this year as in the past. plus it’s not solving our bigger problem of 2B (unless he wants to start playing 2nd?). sounds like a very costly trade too
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 1, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Without actually looking it up
and taking into consideration the size of the sample, but I seem to remember Matt Holliday hitting the living shit out of the ball IN St. Louis.
by Tackle Box on Jul 1, 2008 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2005-2007 Busch Splits
29 AB, 14H, 5HR – .483 / .545 / 1.138 / 1.683 (avg / obp / slg / ops)
by punditmoi on Jul 1, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
People keep saying this...
So I’ll throw two words out there…SAMPLE SIZE. Yeah, he’s hit the holy shit out of the ball in STL. But its been in a whopping 29 AB over 11 games. I wouldn’t put too much stock in the fact that he’s shit-hammered the ball in St. Louis over 29 AB’s and assume he’ll stick forever in the Lou. I think he’s more likely to be a .850-.900 OPS player in St. Louis, likely at the expense of a certain young Memphis outfielder I’d rather not see dumped.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 1, 2008 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for stating sample size
especially since I already did.
by Tackle Box on Jul 1, 2008 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's good to look at the home/road splits
for guys who play in parks like coors, but you have to keep in mind a couple of things. First off, he plays 48 games a year in petco, SF, and LA, three pitchers parks, so the road split is artificially deflated by that. Second, Coors hitters in general suffer from something called the “coors hangover effect”, where they hit worse than their true talent away from coors. There has been a couple of studies into this and afaik no one really knows why it happens, but it does happen. We could expect Holliday to be better than his established “on the road” numbers.
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jul 1, 2008 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kinda harsh
To use a guy’s career stats to indicate his future when his last 2 years he’s majorly elevated his game is probably kinda harsh. Even his away slugging of .472 or .485 the last couple years are pretty darn good, and certainly an improvement over Skip Schumaker on that level.
Baseball Reference’s “Neutralize Stats” tool says Holliday would have an .895 OPS.
On ESPN.com, using the Three-year stats view from 05-07, he has an .809 OPS on the road (1.106 at home)
Of course, I’m not advocating we go get Holliday. You’re just playing with the numbers an awful lot to say Holliday is going to be a .690 OPS guy if we get him.
by mtalken on Jul 2, 2008 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Reyes
Isn’t he due back off the DL soon? If Mulder sticks does Reyes go back to Memphis?
by paposse on Jul 1, 2008 9:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
seems like they've been talking about trading reyes forever
they need to pull the trigger
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How about a little optimism?
Mark Mulder pitched a very effective inning last night. His velocity was strong, he got a groundball out and a strikeout. 2 of the 3 balls hit in the air were bloops. The only ball you could even hint was hard hit was reyes’ routine flyball to right. I’m so frustrated with the comments in regard to Mulder on here. The only thing this guy has done to “wrong” the team is get hurt and try and comeback. I was really hoping to hear some excitement at what he flashed last night, and some optimism that he can continue forward. Aren’t we suppose to cheer for our players. This whole waiting for the other shoe to drop is way too much like fans of losing clubs. Atleast the crowd got it right last night and gave him a nice ovation.
by stickman179 on Jul 1, 2008 9:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I am with you, stickman
I don’t get to see much Cards baseball where I live, so I was pretty jazzed that Tony brought in Mulder. I didn’t know what I was gonna get (I was sorta betting on poor location, low velocity, .1/3 IP, 2 BB, etc), but he looked about as good as you can hope he looks.
Like you, I was happy to see/hear the crowd’s response to him. IF (in huge letters) he feels good after this start and he can maintain this, I think he could definitely be an asset out of the pen. Anything that gets us less Villone/Flores is an upgrade in my book.
by goodymobb on Jul 1, 2008 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
If Mulder and Izzy return to form, our ‘pen woes disappear. And we become an even more formidable team.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2
by gocards62 on Jul 1, 2008 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Mulder returns to form he should be in the rotation
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 1, 2008 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe
or maybe the repetitive strain of throwing 80-100 pitches every 5th game won’t allow him to contribute anything. It could be like a Wood scenario where his arm can’t hack the marathon of starting but responds well to the sprint of relief work. Who knows…..
Mulder, 1st yr in STL, would be great for the rotation, assuming he can sustain it. It’s been a LONG road back for that guy – and he’s not really even “back” yet – cautious optimism is the phrase o’ the day.
by goodymobb on Jul 1, 2008 9:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm just saying
When he was “in form” in the early part of this decade, he was a top of the rotation starter. So if he “returns to form” he should go in the rotation.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 1, 2008 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True, but does he have a 3rd pitch
until he est. this IMHO MM is better off in the pen.
And we need the most help here.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2
by gocards62 on Jul 1, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think you guys are getting my point
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 1, 2008 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
true to form MM
is one helluva starting pitcher
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 1, 2008 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the new "arm slot"
may be better for the bullpen
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 1, 2008 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+0.5
It is somewhat misleading to say that only 2 of his 4 balls in play were grounders, because the other two weren’t hit as well as most grounders are. Pitchers who induce weak swings like that will feel happy even if the occasional blooper drops for a hit.
That said, I’m not quite ready yet to get excited. It was only one very brief, low-leverage appearance, against a team that was badly out of synch. Still, it’s better than nothing.
by StanTheManFan on Jul 1, 2008 9:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and anyone else
on our roster who plays OF would’ve caught that 1st one….Dunc was about a step too slow, but Barton or Lud probably make that play.
Where’s Taguchi and his late-inning defensive sub when you need him?
You could tell that Mulder just sort of chuckled that one off…he knew the guy didn’t get any good wood on it. His attitude looked good; his rhythm and mechanics looked solid. I’ll take it.
by goodymobb on Jul 1, 2008 9:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duncan plays really deep in LF
per Tony’s instructions. The ball should’ve been caught—no question, but I think it was as much how deep he was playing as it was how slow Duncan is/was.
by chuckb on Jul 1, 2008 9:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also
Duncan’s really just not that slow. He’s lumbering guy, but he moves pretty well. Most people don’t realize this, I guess, because of how big he is. I’m 6’3” and back in high school I was the fastest guy on my baseball team—people would ask why I don’t run hard, because my long strides would look slower, but they’d actually be getting me around the bases faster.
Duncan is sort of the same way. He actually can scoot a little bit for a guy his size. Perhaps Lud/Ank/Sch/Bar get to that, but that’s more a commentary on how fleet-footed our OF is than how slow Duncan is, I think.
by mojowo11 on Jul 1, 2008 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, 6 of one, half-dozen or the other
either way, if Dunc isn’t in LF, it’s probably caught.
by goodymobb on Jul 1, 2008 10:03 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not only that...
you’re playing no-doubles defense in the 9th with that kind of lead—make em string together 8 bloop hits to win the game rather than hitting balls over the head of our outfielders…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 1, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We don't really have one
a OF defensive sub. Unless Skippy is on the bench. Barton – eh. Dunc – Fark no. Ank is playing and Luddy is playing.
I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck
by bukowski on Jul 1, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Skip was the plan
but he screwed that up by playing so well offensively! Damn him!
by chuckb on Jul 1, 2008 11:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
what a prat
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 1, 2008 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barton eh?
Understatement much? Barton is a very good defender. Great speed and good jumps on the ball.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That isn't all that is involved.....
in being a good defender. He still seems hesitant at times, doesn’t always take the best routes, and I question his hands, at times.
He doesn’t scare me, but he is shakey.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 1, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But better than Chris Duncan.
He should be a defensive substitution for Chris. Hell, Chris made the last out of the inning in the 8th (he struck out in back to back innings, HA!) so the double switch should have come and Barton could have stayed in after his AB.
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
TLR subs Barton out in the 5th/6th/7th for defense, but rarely takes Duncan out for defensive purposes.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 1, 2008 1:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe TLR is more comfortable.....
With Duncan than Barton. All we get to see is the games. We don’t know.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 1, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, of course
the paramount consideration is TLR’s comfort level.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 1, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that might be the understatement of the year
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 1, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I also disagree
I don’t think Barton’s there yet. He has the tools, but is still hesitant. He just needs PT.
by hit and run on Jul 1, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Barton is the new Taguchi
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 1, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
only if you add 7+ years to Barton's age
Barton is not going to be a bench player for years. Don’t know where or when his chance will come, but he will be a everyday player I believe, someday. Barton isn’t Taguchi because under TLR, Taguchi went into the game as a defensive replacement, opposite of Barton current status.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 1, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
still
he’s the extra outfielder, similar to Taguchi
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 1, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
12+ years, actually
Well who the hell can see forever?
by Alxfritz on Jul 1, 2008 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
1) He didn’t walk multiple batters
2) He actually managed to record an out
So that’s already an improvement over 3 out of the last 5 Randy Flores appearances.
by mikedallas45 on Jul 1, 2008 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What hasn't been mentioned about Mulder...
is that he seemed to be throwing pain free for the first time since sometime mid-season 2005.
by stlfan on Jul 1, 2008 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was one inning
While it impressed me, it was still just a single inning. Get back to me when he’s pitched 15 or 20.
I’m not “waiting for the other shoe to drop” but when a guy hasn’t been an effective MLB pitcher for 2+ years, you have to have cautious optimism on his return.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 1, 2008 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im not ready to get excited about Mulder
I have nothing against the game. And I loved the crowd reaction to him. I would have stood up and applauded his annoucement too. I’ve just have gotten excited by his return to many times and have been disappointed each time. So I’m not going to let him disappoint me again.
I understand it takes a lot of work to recover from shoulder surgery. Let alone two. So I would have been with the crowd cheering him on. I don’t think anyone is challanging his effort. I and really do home he can be half the pitcher he was before the surgery. Because that guy will help this team.
But I’m in wait and see mode right now.
by Evilfrog on Jul 1, 2008 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He threw 1 inning
He looked good, but it’s 1 inning. The TV wasn’t showing his velocity, but it looked like he was throwing harder than I was used to seeing him throw. That said, he’s now thrown 105.1 IP since 2005 and, for the most part, he’s been horrible. To put it in perspective, he’s been much worse than Kip Wells or Anthony Reyes—two guys who have been excoriated here for the better part of a year and a half. Jason Marquis, long the bane of Cards’ fans everywhere, was much better as a Cardinal than Mulder’s been over the last 2+ years.
I don’t hate Mark Mulder. I don’t dislike him in any way but he has been positively awful for a long time. Forgive me if I don’t get too excited b/c he looked good in 1 meaningless inning.
by chuckb on Jul 1, 2008 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
a) The TV (at least ESPN) showed his velocity at 91’ish all inning. 90 on the strikeout pitch.
b) It’s not really a fair comparison to say that Marquis and Wells and Reyes have been “better,” I don’t think. Those guys sucked of their own accord. Mulder sucked because his arm was falling off.
I see your point, though.
by mojowo11 on Jul 1, 2008 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I recall
on ESPN, the highest he hit was 94
..but I was only 1/2 paying attention, was getting ready to watch The Mole!
by rmtx97 on Jul 1, 2008 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I never saw 94 on ESPN
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 1, 2008 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I watched the Fox broadcast
as bad as Al and Dan are, I’d rather listen to them than Steve Phillips. The Fox MW broadcast wasn’t showing the mph and it made me think that the Cards didn’t want them to, for fear of what it might say.
by chuckb on Jul 1, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha! Steve Phillips....the only thing I can say about him is he has nice hair.
Really nice hair. That’s it.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 1, 2008 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sucked is "sucked"
and Mulder sucked like no other Cardinal pitcher since 2005. Plus, part of the reason he sucked was that he refused to admit he was hurt and insisted on trying to pitch through it. So, we can absolve him for his injuries to some degree, but he also hurt the club by continuing to pitch when he was hurt, and then sucking. At least the Cards only had about $4.5 M combined wrapped up in Reyes and Wells, not more than $15 M as they did w/ Mulder.
by chuckb on Jul 1, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Even more than Mike Maroth?
Questionable.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jul 1, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, no. Mike Maroth was the absolutely worst pitcher I have ever seen.
Now, I understand that was post injury, and that he had been a better pitcher before the injury. But he was really, really bad here last year.
Too bad-he seemed like a nice guy.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jul 1, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Honestly
“he seemed like a nice guy” should be the bottom line of Mike Maroth’s b-ref page. That’s the only thing anyone ever says about him.
Well who the hell can see forever?
by Alxfritz on Jul 1, 2008 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll say another nice thing.
He had one hell of a pick off move.
by Evilfrog on Jul 1, 2008 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Darn that first game by Maroth
He was so brilliant that first start, and it totally got my hopes up. I think the wicked pick off was part of that first game. Maroth was one of 100 painful memories last year.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Jul 1, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't mention Maroth specifically
but you’re right, I implied him there. Probably not worse than Maroth and probably not worse than Kelvim Jimenez, but definitely worse than Reyes or Kip Wells.
by chuckb on Jul 1, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you seem to have a personal problem with mulder
I don’t understand your bitterness. You can say all you want about him sucking here are the facts. In 2006 through May 17th he made 9 starts. The cards were 8-1 in those starts and he was 5-1 with a 3.69 era. That was when the shoulder problems began. Over the next month from may 22nd to june 20th he struggled. He made 6 starts over that time with the cards being 2-4 in those starts with his personal record being 1-4 and his era climbing to 6.09. At that point they shut him down until aug. In August he made 2 more starts and got clobbered. It is not his fault he was cleared medically to pitch in those 2 games in august. He did not pitch again til last september after having the first shoulder surgeory. That operation did not correct the problem and he made a whole 3 bad starts. That brought on the 2nd operation, which had apparently been more successful. I’m not saying he’s proven himself with one inning. I am saying it was a very encouraging inning. The real point here, is you are spewing hate on him and saying “sucked is sucked” for what really boils down to 11 starts out of 203 in his career. Wanna talk about a small sample size. The dude was hurt. Let’s see if he’s healthy, because if he is, he can be one hell of a pitcher.
by stickman179 on Jul 1, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's not the same pitcher he was prior to the surgery
in a quite literal manner. He doesn’t have the same delivery and his repertoire is going to be different because of that. It’s like watching a brand new pitcher—the only reference point we really have moving forward is what he’s done in the minors and it hasn’t been good.
Pointing to anything prior to his shoulder being frayed is fruitless.
by azruavatar on Jul 1, 2008 1:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've just been watching it frame by frame
It really isn’t that different from ‘05/06. His arm action has an extra little move to it to get most loading in the back but it’s not really some radical change. It’s a slightly lower arm slot, high 3/4s before, mid 3/4s now…...it’s not like what Smoltz was trying to pull.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jul 1, 2008 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's dropped his arm several inches.
All the reports are that he’s unable to get on top of the ball like he used too. He looked pretty different to me last night.
by azruavatar on Jul 1, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh it's definitely lower
No question, it’s a significant change. But looking at it frame by frame his arm action and general mechanics haven’t really changed that much from ‘05/’06 so it’s not some life altering thing here. Pitchers change their arm slot on that magnitude in off-seasons (willingly) fairly frequently (Webb comes to mind a few years ago). Of course that’s not always the smartest thing to do (Phil Hughes), but he isn’t going from Eddie Degerman to Chad Bradford here. Saying that he is a brand new pitcher isn’t necessarily accurate.
This is as hard a semantics line I’ve ever drawn, but I think it’s just going to tweak his stuff and not reshape it.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jul 1, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm not saying he's the same
I’m only saying that he hasn’t sucked as a cardinal. He’s been hurt as a cardinal. But once again, there seems to be huge dislike/ill-will toward Mark Mulder. I don’t understand it.
Do I think Mulder will be the mulder oh old, probably not. But there is no reason to think that he can’t make his way back and be a respectable pitcher, IF he is healthy. That’s all I’m saying. I’m sick of the constant hate. How about a little optimism. Last night gave me atleast reason to think he has a shot at coming back.
by stickman179 on Jul 1, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Would you be happier
if I had used the term “terrible” since 2005? Is there some sort of issue w/ the word “sucked” b/c you cannot honestly say (and you haven’t so far) that he’s been even average since 2005? No way in hell! Ok, he’s been terrible. Satisfied?
by chuckb on Jul 1, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Some pitchers change from pitch to pitch?
FWIW, didn’t Taveras and Dreamweaver change arm angles sometimes on different pitches? I know they didn’t do it for medical reasons.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Jul 1, 2008 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it looks to me
that while the arm slot is not that much different, the shoulder positioning and point where the hips are, which tend to affect velocity more than anything else, are the big differences
by huts04 on Jul 1, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the only thing I'm bitter about
is idiotic comments like this one—suggesting I have something personal against any Cardinal, or any other baseball player for that matter. For you to suggest something so sophomoric while saying you have the facts on your side is completely absurd. I am “spewing hate on him?” Poor guy. He has been terrible and you can try and play w/ the facts all you want, but it can’t change how badly he has pitched since 2005 for the Cardinals. To wit:
From May 1, 2006 through the end of his season, he made 12 starts, 4 of which were quality starts. His ERA was 9.36 in those 12 starts. BTW, that’s 12 in one season, not 11 for his career. Now who’s playing fast and loose w/ the facts? In any case, in those 12 starts, he walked 28 and struck out 34 in those 57.2 IP. He gave up 13 HR’s - more than 2 per 9 IP. That’s good? His average game score for those 12 starts - 32. Hitters OPS against—1.045.
In 2007, he made 3 more starts and threw a grand total of 11 innings. His ERA was 12.27. He walked 7, struck out 3, and gave up 4 homers in those 11 IP. His average game score was a robust 24. Hitters OPS against—1.357. Perhaps in your world, that’s quality pitching. I expect more, however, from major leaguers. Was he hurt? Yes he was. Did he suck. Unquestionably, despite your grand effort at apologizing. The fact again remains that he didn’t inform the team of his injury and tried to pitch his way through it so while you’re trying to absolve him of being terrible b/c of his injuries, he cannot be absolved of that.
Now, I’m sorry if I hurt your feelings by saying that Mulder has not been a good pitcher since 2005. The truth, sometimes, can be a hard pill to swallow, however. Am I angry w/ Mulder b/c he has sucked. Not at all but neither am I going to wet myself b/c he threw a good inning. Sorry, again. I suppose I should have said it “was a triumphant outing by a once great Cardinal starter who demonstrated a clear ability to help the team down the stretch!”
BTW, this is not a sample size problem. It’s 69 innings and surely you’re not going to suggest that his poor results over those 69 innings were simply bad luck, are you? If so, there’s not much more we can do today.
I have to say one more thing. I’m getting pretty tired of people like you directing PERSONAL CRITICISM at posters such as myself who offer honest criticism of the team and its players. This is not a site where we are all just supposed to put on our skirts and wave our pompoms and say nothing but great things about the team and its players regardless of the TRUTH! Mark Mulder has been terrible since 2005. Does that mean he’ll be terrible the rest of the season? No, but it’s a little early to be creating the placard for the wall where the team retires his jersey. We are allowed to honestly evaluate the team and its players here, whether you like it or not. That’s what I’m bitter about. It’s not Mulder. It’s bullshit like this.
If you can honestly criticize something I’ve said (such as, Mark Mulder hasn’t sucked. He’s been truly outstanding.) by all means, feel free. If you can’t, however, don’t resort to attacking me or any other poster personally just b/c I’m not the sort of “fan” you want me to be.
by chuckb on Jul 1, 2008 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you've caught this a lot lately
are you secretly an Astros fan? Why do you hate the Cardinals HC? DO YOU LIKE ANYONE??? You’re impossible. I give up.
:o)
by azruavatar on Jul 1, 2008 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The most impressive thing I saw was his mechanics
His arm action didn’t slow to a stop in the back, he seemed to actually be leveraging his lower half not floating and that all combined to just look very fluid and not brutally robotic like last year. I dunno if I’m excited excited, but I’m at least intrigued that he’s throwing in the 90s and probably due another mph or two really with some more conditioning strength so who knows.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jul 1, 2008 10:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
I think he threw around 92-94 when he was healthy, so seeing him in the low 90’s last night made me happy. HIs curve still has some snap to it as well, and that was his best pitch when he was with the A’s. I’m taking the wait and see approach with him, but I”m surely not writing him off as some of the posters on this site seem to be. It’s not Mark’s fault that he was traded for Danny Haren and that Haren then became one of the better starters in the league. If he can come back and be somewhat effective, he helps the ballclub, it’s as simple as that.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jul 1, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Past years, club rushing Mulder?
I thought the organization was pretty desperate and probably rushed Mulder on his two come back attempts. At least I felt that was what was happening. So I don’t know if I could blame Mulder on those attemps. Maybe he was just trying to help even though he wasn’t altogether physically. I don’t know.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Jul 1, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only threw two curveballs
One fouled off by a righty, the other pushed into left field by a lefty. I’m guessing that “new” curve is not going to be the swing-and-miss pitch of before and will be put into play more often. Mulder’s smart & probably will change speeds w/ it more & remain effective, though different.
by random on Jul 1, 2008 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
should have mentioned
new curve from lower arm slot seems to me to move more right to left and less top to bottom.
by random on Jul 1, 2008 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
production from the 9th spot in the lineup
Just curious, did you omit interleague games from your analysis?
by dhawks on Jul 1, 2008 9:19 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mulder
It was nice to see the Busch Stadium crowd standing and cheering for Mulder’s return. That’s gotta feel good for a guy who’s gone through as much garbage as he has.
by mojowo11 on Jul 1, 2008 9:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Anybody know why the official site.....
Did away with their minor league roundup link? It hadn’t been updated in about a week, and today it’s just not there any more.
by SoonerfanTU on Jul 1, 2008 9:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Wuh-oh
Sounds like “cut-backs.” Minor league roundup guy got fired for putting the moves on the secretary.
by mojowo11 on Jul 1, 2008 9:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
looking at too many
pictures of Erin Andrews probably.
I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck
by bukowski on Jul 1, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You should just
go to Future Redbirds
/self promotion
by roarke on Jul 1, 2008 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Awesome site.
Found it this year from Goold and love it. Great info. And that is no shameless plug. Just a fan.
by CardFaninTTown on Jul 1, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
seriously..
there are people here that don’t go to FR?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 1, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been pulling for Mulder since
1. When the Cards won the World Series in an interview in the locker room he said “he was just here for the bud light”.
2. When he had a chance to jump in on the ridiculous mediocre pitcher free agent spending spree and said he was going to stay in STL because he had something to prove.
I’m going to play the old school “relies on eyes” dude here cause I didn’t have gameday up (like I should have), however, from what I SAW coincides with all the reports that’s been coming in these years. When he’s on he’s good, when he’s in pain he’s bad. To me, it all depends on how he feels this week (or even today).
RE: Reached on Errors.
I’d be SHOCKED if it had ANYTHING to do with anything else other than regression. Like I said, flip a coin 100 times and you can come up with all kinds of non-existent patterns…just like BP debunked that a slow working pitcher induces more errors.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jul 1, 2008 10:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I pull for him
because the guy genuinely wants to prove to the fans here that he wasn’t a bust. I guarantee you that he keeps track of what Dan Haren has done since the trade
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 1, 2008 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I definitely think he’s got a solid, professional approach to the game. Guy’s got a good head on his shoulders, and some more leadership and experience in the clubhouse is never a bad thing.
I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck
by bukowski on Jul 1, 2008 10:48 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ridiculous mediocre pitcher free agent spending spree
He was injured – who else bid for him?
by sdrone on Jul 1, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
people bid on iured pitchers all the time
look at how many were after Prior
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jul 1, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
One could argue that Mulder has been a better pitcher more recently then Prior too. I think 04-05 was pretty much the end for both, I think anyway. Maybe I’m wrong…Anyway if a team could take a chance on Prior, I’m sure you could find someone other than STL to take one on Muldew.
"Your Holiness, I'm Joseph Medwick. I, too, used to be a Cardinal."-Joe Medwick, to Pope Pius XII.
by redbirdnation8206 on Jul 1, 2008 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mulder
While I am happy, not necessarily excited, about his outing last nite, I don’t know why everyone wants to crown him our next loogy out of the pen. I understand he can be better than flores/villone, but that aint’ saying much. Really what I’m trying to say is that I’m more worried about his ability to pitch every/every other day. Even if it is only 10-15 pitches.
Go Crazy Folks, Go Crazy!!!
by joshbaz12 on Jul 1, 2008 10:36 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I watched Mulder last night
I wasn’t overly impressed, but I now have hope that he will be serviceable.
His arm slot was weird, and you could tell that he was thinking about his mechanics while pitching – it wasn’t instinctual. He was having trouble I thought with the outer half of the plate on righties. On the 2nd bloop hit, the camera cut to his face and you could see something there – worry? doubt? – don’t know. He’s a professional athlete, and I’m sure he’s faced worse.
That will come with time, I hope.
Honestly, I don’t know if our schedule will allow him to relearn on the job…we need a lefty in the pen pretty bad, and it wasn’t like he was facing Murderers Row…
But hey…I give him every prop for his stick to itiveness, and here’s hoping that his arm doesn’t fall off.
I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck
by bukowski on Jul 1, 2008 10:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
will the cubs, reds and stros follow suit?
the Pirates had the pitcher (maholm) in the 8th spot and J Wilson batting 9th last night. It is like a regioinal variation of the national pastime!
by baked mcbride on Jul 1, 2008 11:00 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Mulder
Walt overpaid for Mulder and then he overpaid on the two year deal. Neither of those are Mulder’s fault and while yes, it’s frustrating that he’s done so little for the BoB, injuries happen.
Everything I’ve read from him and about him tells me that he has a professional approach to the game and to coming back (if possible). For those reasons, and because I’d rather see almost anyone other than Flores, Mulder’s effort ast night was great to see. He’s throwing harder than we’ve seen, his control seems to be pretty good and (seems to me) the longer he works w/his new arm slot the better his velocity and command. Hopefully.
The Cards have come through a rough stretch in very good shape. Heck of a transition year so far.
by Callaway Kid on Jul 1, 2008 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
with all the negative stuff
said about our “surly” cough first baseman hearing more and more stuff like this about him is pretty cool… http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/7D7ACFDA2AD03624862574790014BC26?OpenDocument
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 1, 2008 11:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Who says negative stuff about Pujols?
Point them out so I can kick them in the Junk. This guy does more charity work than any sports figure in Recent St. Louis Histroy that I can think of.
by Evilfrog on Jul 1, 2008 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
a few years ago bernie was pretty tough on him
an there was another whose name escapes me that compared him to bonds. There was a ton of neg. press during 06 and a little during the Mitchell report release. To me it’s just good to see alot of that stuff dying down and more positive things being printed.
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 1, 2008 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
All Star
At the All Star Game last year, he was a bit “surly” about his lack of playing time and then there was the time he was a bit miffed at not receiving the World Series MVP award that he probably deserved in 2006. For all his superhuman characteristics, he occasionally puts out a “surly” sound bite. The Cards should probably unload him. He’s clubhouse poison.
by spencegrif on Jul 1, 2008 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tip of the cap to Mulder & Duncan
I’ve said some snide then about them and now I will just wait and see what happens from here. The last three games has the feel of the 2004 and 2005 season….... just hope they can continue the grind.
Theme song for the team this year “I will survive”?
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 1, 2008 11:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Better choice:
“Livin’ on a Prayer”
Mulder used to throw for the Aaaaaaaa’s
His shoulder turned to junk
he’s down on his luck,
it’s tough, sooooooooooooo tough
Duncan told the Colonel he’s an aaaaaaaace
put him in the rotation, told him
“you’ll be okayyyyyyay”
Blow them away
With this ‘pen you’ve got to hold on
to what you’ve got
it doesn’t make a difference if the Cubs win a lot
the kids are getting chances,
and that’s worth a lot
ah, hell
WE’LL GIVE IT A SHOT
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jul 1, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Folks... I think we have it!
Thanks Valatan.... great job.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jul 1, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Interseting look at the MLB standings
In the American League, only four out of fourteen teams have been outscored on the season, and only four out of fourteen teams are under .500.
In the Nationl League, eleven out of sixteen teams have been outscored on the season, and ten out of sixteen teams are under .500.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/standings?date=20080701&type=reg&br=5&year=2008&order=false&st=2
Do you guys think that this all has to do with the dominance shown in IL play?
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 1, 2008 11:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Now that Mulder is back
He’ll be starting AFTER the all star break. Lets get rid of the THIRD best pitcher soon. Lets trade him to the Phillies for Myers, (a descent closer, poor starter), and a prospect… Franklin could go back to 7th inning and pitch more often. We might get Fuentes too, and Holiday. That’ll doer. Don’t see our SECOND best pitcher going too deep tonight, we should be able to score 10 off their rookie though.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 1, 2008 11:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What in the world?
#2. Myers was a legitimately good starter and last year as you said a decent closer. He’s hurt or something. Damaged goods. Why again should we trade our “THIRD” best starter?
#3. Why would Franklin go back to the 7th inning by acquiring Myers?
#4. How in hell would we trade for Fuentes AND Holliday and Myers.
#5. “Their rookie”??? The same 30 year old Tony Armas that has been in the bigs for 8+ years?
I can’t tell if this is a joke or not.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jul 1, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think...
He is counting Lohse as our third best starter behind Wainwright and the Colonel.
by Evilfrog on Jul 1, 2008 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and again
doubt if the Phillies would want Lohse back so soon
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 1, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Myers is an angry man
with good stuff….... a decent closer. He has know nervous system for 5 days cycles and 6 inning exposures. This team needs an angry man or two. Izzy does not have the stuff. He has a huge heart, but the body is gone. Franklin is a durable guy who can pitch more often than he does. There isn’t a way in hell this team is spending any money on players. Lohse is the only player making over 3mill that is worth anything save Albert.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 1, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Could have fooled me
I could have sworn that Izzy has been fairly good since coming back…
by saladdays on Jul 1, 2008 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His stuff has taken a huge hit this year
And he’s getting absolutely bombed. Why would we trade Lohse who is on pace for 200+ innings while sporting a 3.69 FIP (that’s a legit #2, 30th in the league) for someone who would be a project as a righthanded reliever. We are going to get 2 first rounders if/when Lohse walks at the end of the year anyway, not to mention he’s playing a huge cog in the Cardinals rotation right now anyway so we can’t afford to deal him regardless. The Phils would shit their pants if they could have Lohse for dumping Myers and his contract at this point. Unless they ate 100% of Myers deal and threw in Carrasco…...or Cardenas + someone else…..it’d be hilariously idiotic to do that.
This teams problem is not righthanded reliever, that makes less than no sense.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jul 1, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Myers is awful, no thanks
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jul 1, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I know this is the internet but....
Glaus has 50 rbis. Yadier is Yadier, plus he’s hitting .300. Looper is very serviceable. All making more than $3m.
by sdrone on Jul 1, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If someone would take Glaus
for chump change they would let him go in an instant, just to get out from under his contract. He is only here because Toronto took on the Rolen’s contract. Maybe another nail in Jocettys coffin for backing tony.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 1, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If Glaus produces like he is now through the life of his contract
his contract is no albatross. He is exactly what you spend on FA for—way above average production on both sides of the ball.
And are you really going to complain about Rolen’s contract? Really? When he was one of the three pieces at the heart of four playoff teams in the six years he was with St. Louis?
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jul 1, 2008 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have no complaint
about anyones contract. I’m not paying them. Guaranteed money to inadequate or injured players is killing most teams in the league. The Yankees most of all.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 1, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But in this case, we're not talking about inadequate or injured players
and in Glaus’s case, we’re only talking the rest of this year and next year.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jul 1, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glaus' inability
to be any protection for Pojols has become evident to coaches and everyone else. If you had as many opportunities as Troy, you would have 50 rbi’s with a fence post. I like Troy, but I would take almost any third baseman in the league at half the price. This team needs someone that hits to all fields, that can hit a damn sacrifice fly. Ludwick and Glaus together is to much to bare.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 1, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're right
Troy should have 120 rbi’s already. When are they going to DFA him?
by spencegrif on Jul 1, 2008 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then what's your solution?
And I can’t believe I’m actually getting into this discussion (since it’s making my head spin), but please TRY to make your solution realistic. Simply spouting off what is wrong…......in short…................abbreviated sentence fragments…............................................doesn’t really…........help….......come to any conclustions….....................................................
by Tackle Box on Jul 1, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
only three 3B's in the league.........
have out-OPS’d glaus with runners in scoring position …............... Chipper Jones, Aramis Ramirez, and Blake Dewitt…...............and dewitt is pretty awful overall…...... Glaus has outperformed David Wright, Edwin Encarnacion, Garrett Atkins, jorge cantu, ty wiggington, ryan zimmerman, etc…......................... I’m praying that WCBW is just talking out his kermit…................. and that the team’s management isn’t thinking the way he says they are thinking…............ because glaus has really done a fine job this year…...
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jul 1, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sober up sleepy
I have never seen as many players walked or pitched around just to face these guys for outs. They produced much better when albert was
was gone, but he isn’t gone, hes back. they have not produced with him in the lineup. yesterday, bases loaded,no outs. Glaus swings at an outside pitch, and instead of flying to right, going anywhere out of the infield. He turns it over. meaningless ground ball double play. the pitchers only hope ,offered and realized. that would get him pine in any credible college program. If those other 3rd baseman had anywhere near the sewer of base runners glaus has had, they would be all stars.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 1, 2008 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
in my opinion
the ball glaus hit into a dp would of been a strike. if he would of taken it and he would of been K’d. It was a good pitch. but I guess a K would of been better than a dp
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 5:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better in the completely wrong sense of the word
Do we want guys who take pitches knowing they will strike out? No. Do we want guys who have such a horrible judge of the strikezone, that they can’t tell the difference between balls and strikes? No. Do we want guys who fear hitting into double plays, to the detriment of their plate appearance? No.
Ground balls and double plays happen. Sometimes at really unoppontune times. But so do grand slams in Fenway Park in an actual critical juncture of a game. That’s the nature of the beast.
by Tackle Box on Jul 1, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
MLB numbers w/RISP.
League Leaders in AB’s w/RISP:
1. Jose Guillen – 102
2. Ryan Howard – 99
3. David Wright – 99
4. James Loney – 96
5. Jeff Francouer – 95
6. Justin Morneau – 95
7. Troy Glaus – 94
Glaus’s BA w/RISP: .255
Glaus’s BA: .265
Pretty much the same guy. Currently 4th in MLB (behind Wright, Aramis & Mark Reynolds) in RBI for 3B. No complaints about Glaus here.
Boomer.
by glamboomer on Jul 1, 2008 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do I have money to spend?
how much?
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 1, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You do know that
Ludwick and Glaus are the RBI leaders on the team, right? Are you saying that these two guys - who are our RBI leaders, mind you - are too much to bear? Or that these two represent a bare spot in our lineup? Either way, it doesn’t make sense to me.
by Ray Lankford on Jul 1, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think Troy's been
better than you believe. He’s 5th in the NL among 3B in VORP, and 4th in win shares. He’s got a 118 OPS+ which is right in line w/ his career average. He’s also 5th in RC/27. Maybe he’s a little light on sacrific flies, not sure and don’t really care either. He’s been better than average and that’s after getting off to a slow start. I should also add that being 4th and 5th in those categories is not too shabby in a league w/ Wright, Jones, and Ramirez either. I’d say he’s earning his salary so far.
by chuckb on Jul 1, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
He’s also been WAY better than advertised on defense. And he’s filled in at 1B when Albert was on the DL.
I loved Rolen, but so far I’d say the trade for Santa is a wash.
Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2
by gocards62 on Jul 1, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's been better than Rolen was
and better than Rolen in Toronto—and for 1 less year. It’s been a great trade, so far.
by chuckb on Jul 1, 2008 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dunno
Apparently Rolen’s defense so far, at least according to UZR, was destroying everyone else and their slash stats are pretty close. We got the better end of the contracts but I think Rolen has been the better player…...not that he couldn’t have done it here, it was a good trade and one that needed to be made.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jul 1, 2008 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think MGL posts
those runs as per 150G which can make the difference look more significant that it is when you have player like Rolen who may only get in on 60% of the games.
I can’t remember if he was posting actual runs saved or a rate version though. . . .
by azruavatar on Jul 1, 2008 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was rate
And yeah it was probably inflated but he’s definitely still killing it defensively while outhitting Glaus…
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jul 1, 2008 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The 8 Hole
Do you think that the numbers as compared to the league are skewed a bit by the number of times that the Cardinals pinch hit for the pitcher in the 8th spot? Most teams are getting production from their worst everyday player in that spot, while the Cardinals are either sacrificing or pinch hitting much of the time. Just a thought.
by roarke on Jul 1, 2008 11:53 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
everybody else bats the pitch 9th
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
right
but allow me to interpret. he’s saying most 8th-place hitters are brad-ausmus-types, while conceivably the cards can pinch-hit a couple at-bats per game in that spot with better hitters.
by baw on Jul 1, 2008 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Understand
I guess I didn’t read his question well enough. Do we pinch hit for the pitcher more than other teams?
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know, but it's irrelevant to his point
assuming we pinch-hit for our 8th-place hitter (the pitcher) more than other teams do for theirs (a regular).
by baw on Jul 1, 2008 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
is anyone else amused by the horrible quality of the mlb.com game recaps?
for the recap of yesterday’s game, the anchor said that the mets were in st louis for a 3-game set (wrong, it’s 4 games). not a huge error, but still…
then, she goes on to say that the game was pujols’ first since coming off the DL—um, i might be mistaken, but i’m pretty sure that a guy who looks an awful lot like el hombre has been playing for all of the last week.
by djones9 on Jul 1, 2008 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That would be wrong too
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 1, 2008 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're correct
I didn’t originally think he started a game at 1B in KC.
by saladdays on Jul 1, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok, i just re-watched it...
she definitely says it’s albert’s first game since coming off the DL, period. who knows…maybe she did mean to say it was his first game back at busch.
at the end, she also says we’ve won 3 straight games in a row—heh. i’d love to see how we could manage to win 3 straight, but somehow not in a row.
by djones9 on Jul 1, 2008 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
games played
against teams not from New York don’t count!
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jul 1, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish the Cards
would go back to wearing the satin jackets with the sluggerbird on them.
Well who the hell can see forever?
by Alxfritz on Jul 1, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I believe
she said, he had a pretty good day his first day back from the dl, going 4-4 in that contest.
Thats how I heard it though.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on Jul 1, 2008 1:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
at first that's what i thought she said too...
so i looked again, and nope, she didn’t say that.
by djones9 on Jul 1, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are concentrating on the wrong things.
What is she wearing?
by sdrone on Jul 1, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it's important to keep the Mulder thing in perspective...
I don’t get the sense that anyone here is rooting against him…it just seems to me with all the false starts and Haren’s success, some of us have been very critical of him for things that are not necessarily his fault…did he withhold information about his injury? perhaps, but that is hardly unusual for athletes on all levels…mistakes were made all around on this situation…let’s just move on.
I said yesterday I was disappointed that the Cardinals were apparently wasting a roster spot on Mulder…it appears now that I was wrong, and this is one situation where I am happy that I was. He had a decent inning, and I’m happy for him and the team, but we have a long way to go…if he can provide some good service to the team in one role or another, well, that’s what is needed right now.
One more thing…I have the feeling that we had better get used to the 13 man pitching staff, at least for extended periods during the season…with all the specialization on the staff and with most players on the roster being pressed into duty at unfamiliar positions (I’m looking at you, Adam Kennedy!)...I can see TLR making a case for carrying that 13th hurler…that may be another topic for another time: general makeup of the 25 man roster.
by tbell61 on Jul 1, 2008 12:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Please
to many, you can’t honestly criticize a Cardinal w/o it being suggested that you’re not much of a fan. I root for Cardinal players, often even after they leave, but I root for the team more. When Mulder’s gone, I’ll still be a Cardinal fan so I don’t fall in love w/ individual players (for the most part). I do love Pujols. Some people need to understand that it’s ok to be critical of players (god knows, enough people here have criticized Duncan!) and that it doesn’t mean that they’re rooting against them. Good job, tbell.
by chuckb on Jul 1, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Did anybody else post the good luck girl yet?
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 12:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
is the good luck girl a new thing?
i been outta the loop the last week
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on Jul 1, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
started up last night in the game thread
since we had a game on espn
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jul 1, 2008 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
correct
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Better luck for the game threads
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 1, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
YouTube is a wonderful thing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIP7a9Z-YBM
I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck
by bukowski on Jul 1, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
does anyone else find this marginally sexist?
I kinda feel bad for Erin Andrews for all the crap she has to take - not that I claim to be above that particular fray - it’s got to get old.
by azruavatar on Jul 1, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
are you kidding
If it wasn’t for everybody drooling over her, she would of never become and espn broadcaster. She’s made a lot of money because of sexism
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From What I can tell she seems like a smart girl
a lot better than that bimbo of fox football. but enough about her lets talk baseball.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 1:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree Az
IMO there are other blogs and web sites one can frequent if you want to check out attractive women. And the implication that because she is attractive this is the only reason she has a job well i think it proves your point
by FunkeeC on Jul 1, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to go sexist on her.......
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jul 1, 2008 1:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Cut it out guys
While I think that Erin Andrews is highly attractive and I would enjoy seeing more pictures of her on any other website, Viva El Birdos has many female readers that might find this rather offensive. This blog is for baseball and discussions surrounding the sport; if you want to post inappropriate pictures on a website (or talk about politics, religion, or anything else not pertinent to the general theme of VEB), do so elsewhere. (Look at it from the other side. If some poster says that Wainwright or Ankiel is dreamy, nobody is bothered; if somebody posts of picture of Wainwright’s butt, there’s going to be more than a few people annoyed/offended.)
That said, the Cubs do deserve my pity, but never my support.
by Solanus on Jul 1, 2008 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you
it is a little much, and quite sophomoric…
When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?
by RosevilleRedbird on Jul 1, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
as a femal reader
I felt two ways about it. I could see the fun the posters were having with it and understood it was a lighthearted thing, but on the other hand, it was a little much at times.
However, I don’t know if it was more over the top than a lot of the comments that are made on here…like the comments about Dick Pole and the explitive-laden comments during losing game threads. If it really bothered me, I wouldn’t read here.
I understand what kind of environment this is.
mel
by mel1975 on Jul 1, 2008 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good grief
female…sheesh. and I even preread.
by mel1975 on Jul 1, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still
I always find it funny that those who are most ready to complain about ‘there not being enough ladies around” are the ones most ready to make things completely uncomfortable for women.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jul 1, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and i often think, especially in game threads,
there is very little consideration of how many statements read. most of what is posted there is just emotional response—an instantaneous venting. I read game threads but don’t really feel comfortable posting there.
mel
by mel1975 on Jul 1, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was thinking of the game thread last night
as a chat room basically
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 1, 2008 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely
I think that was the point that i was trying to make. gamethreads have a certain environment to them. I understand that and don’t have a problem with it at all; however, personally, I’m not likely to post in them much.
mel
by mel1975 on Jul 1, 2008 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not looking to pick up women at VEB lol
But I will say I feel partly responsible for the Erin Andrews thing since I was the first to post the picture in the first overflow last night. I think it got a little bit out of hand. If you really want to look at pictures of her, just do a google image search, you’ll find what you’re looking for ;)
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jul 1, 2008 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't even know who she was
so at least I’m now better informed :)
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 1, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
good greif
what has this world come to when we can’t have a little fun?
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
by gdm426 on Jul 1, 2008 5:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I tend to agree
sometimes the ones who get the most offended aren’t the ones who should get offended. it’s like one feels guilty because someone should be offended by this, but no one really does. Was it over the line? I guess. But it wasn’t that bad and I think most people understood the over-the-top remarks like “you actually listen to her speak?” were more exagerations as opposed to actual life philosophies. Plus, the language, for the most part around here is pretty darn clean. The place just got giddy last night over a combination of so many people having access to watch the game, plus the relavtive ease of the game, plus the fact that espn didn’t have erin andrews on board.
It’s espn’s fault. If they would have had her at the game, there wouldn’t have been the need to post so many dang pictures!
And as was noted before by myself and a couple of people. erin andrews is by far and away the best sideline reporter in sports and THAT assessment has nothing to do with her physical attributes.
by Tackle Box on Jul 1, 2008 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah
especially given some of the comments yesterday about ‘not wanting to hear her blather’
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jul 1, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pujols butt. now we're even
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
i find her to be better informed than the majority of espn’s “on-air personalities”
How depressing is it being you? Is it closer to being a lifelong cubs fan or being born without lips? - Janitor
by themanthemyth on Jul 1, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
She's a thousand times better informed
and it you actually listen to her (I know, I know) she has the actual ability to ask a follow-up question based on whatever her interview subject just said as opposed to asking the next question on the card.
by Tackle Box on Jul 1, 2008 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
especially on day/discussion threads when the goal is to talk. Plus, if you’re posting photos of guys/girls for the basis of objectification I won’t be able to visit here when I’m at work. I enjoy this place because it’s respectable to all.
That said, game threads can get stupid anyways and are mostly at night when I’m not at work so I’m a little more forgiving there.
by enoscountry on Jul 1, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
point taken. i will refrain from butt pics
I didn’t know that there is actually an award given to the best baseball but called the mantle award.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for people at work if a pic is posted you feel could jeopordize your job
you can simply click on the title and it will close the picture
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's not the point
I enjoy going here because I don’t have to do that.
by enoscountry on Jul 1, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the point is you'll get canned for being unproductive at work
not from a random pic of EA’s butt
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
during last nights game her pics where everywhere
It was pretty much the general consensus to post pics of Erin here until we lose
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 12:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hell...
Keep posting her pics even AFTER we lose!!
by tbell61 on Jul 1, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One more until tonight
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
looks like a screwed that up sorry! Try post one more time
.png)
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
those are nice pants!
strikeouts from left-center
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jul 1, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is $11 M too much to pay
for a LOOGY next year?
by Hardcore Legend on Jul 1, 2008 12:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
seems pretty high
or at least for the cardinals
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is it too much
to pay for Erin Andrews for next year?
by saladdays on Jul 1, 2008 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is she a lefty?
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looks like a righty
actually. Can we find a spot for her in the bullpen?
by Red in Chicago on Jul 1, 2008 12:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that would definitely help with player morale
but I’m not sure if bullpen effectivness would go up or down
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jul 1, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think it would go up
Oh wait the effectiveness?? I dunno.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on