fickle finger of fate
by lboros on Jun 9, 2008 9:12 AM EDT
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Printfive days ago i flew down to mexico to attend a wedding. i didn’t think about baseball much while i was down there; drank mojitos all day, laid around in the sun and collected shells w/ my kids, and ended up with refritos for brains. i still haven’t shaken off the effects and am in no great hurry to do so; my 6-year-old had to sign the customs declaration to get us back into the country . . . . . i come home to find way too much baseball news to catch up on; hope you’ll forgive me if i seem a little out of it.
the injuries to welley and wainer are, to say the least, concerning. wellemeyer’s elbow started barking at just about the same time (give or take a week) as looper’s did last season in his first full year as a starter. looper hit the dl on june 16 and missed two starts. he had thrown 80 innings / 1322 pitches at the time; wellemeyer is currently at 83 innings / 1244 pitches. probably just a coincidence. the reports are reasonably encouraging, but keep in mind that after wellemeyer became a starting pitcher last season, his elbow only held up for 8 outings before he hit the dl. it was allegedly a freak injury, caused when wellemeyer banged his elbow on his knee during the follow-through on a pitch, and was only expected to keep him out of action for a few days, but he ended up on the disabled list for 6 weeks. the current ailment sounds less ominous; let’s hope so.
as for wainwright --- many of us have been fretting about his workload and dreading an injury, but the finger ligaments were not foremost on our list of worries. they are now. a quick google search turned up a few pitchers who’ve struggled w/ injuries to a finger ligament. adam eaton missed the first 4 months of the 2006 season with that injury; dana eveland (now pitching well for oakland) and minnesota reliever pat neshek suffered this ailment in the minors. one of the guys in the johan santana trade, brant rustich, had surgery to repair a finger ligament in college. i also found one historical example, former orioles pitcher mike boddicker, who pitched through a finger injury in 1986 and saw his season implode; he was 10-1 with a 3.48 era before the injury, 4-11 with a 5.60 thereafter. i couldn’t find a whole lot of other information, and in any case the only info that really matters at this point is the report from wagonmaker’s doctors, which is due later today.
the team will start boggs tuesday and is thinking of moving mcclellan into the rotation, perhaps as early as thursday (which would normally be wainwright’s next turn). while the cards have had outstanding success with reliever-to-starter conversions, this one strikes me as the longest shot yet. mcclellan hasn’t started regularly since 2004 and has thrown more than 100 innings in a season only once as a professional; moreover, in his pro career mcclellan has thrown just 65 innings (give or take) above class A, including his innings at the big-league level this year. that’s not to say he can’t eventually become an effective big-league starter, but he doesn’t seem prepared to step into the role right now --- not nearly as well prepared as, say, jaime garcia, who is already conditioned as a starting pitcher and has thrown nearly 200 innings above class A. garcia has made a graceful transition from double A to triple A, lowering his walk rate while continuing to strike hitters out. in ideal circumstances he’d spend the rest of this season at memphis, but the circumstances aren’t ideal.
unfortunately garcia pitched yesterday, which means he’d be on just 3 days’ rest thursday; they’re not gonna start him on short rest. other options, assuming wainwright’s unable to take his turn? parisi looked shell-shocked in his two starts; i wouldn’t think he’s a candidate . . . . . the obvious (only) solution is to start anthony reyes, whose normal turn falls on tuesday. and the argument for doing so has nothing to do with the player-development rationale that i and other reyes advocates have long been making. the argument used to be: just throw reyes out there, let him learn to pitch at this level, live with his mistakes in the short run and get him established for the long run. under the present circumstances, the argument is much simpler: he’s the best available candidate in the short run. garcia might be better on the merits (although that’s hardly a given), but he can’t go thursday and he’s only 6 starts removed from double A. mcclellan isn’t conditioned to start; parisi looks overmatched. reyes, if nothing else, can be relied on to throw 5 or 6 innings and avoid trashing the bullpen; he has gone at least 5 inning in 32 of his 38 big-league starts.
dave and tony have their reasons for not wanting reyes in the rotation, or anywhere on the roster; mozeliak may think he’s more tradeable if they keep him at triple A. but let’s not make this too complicated; let's not be pathological. if wainwright can’t go thursday, then reyes should get the start; if he bombs and the rotation still has a hole in it, then garcia’s schedule can be adjusted so he’s available for the turn after that. this has nothing to do with reyes' long-term development potential; it's all about keeping the team afloat in the short term, nursing them through a (hopefully) temporary crisis without making a hash of the whole pitching staff.
i haven’t had any chance to get caught up re the draft yet, but i do want to note the florida marlins’ 45th-round selection, fred atkins jr, an outfielder from the college of marin. this player’s father is an old friend of mine from long long ago. fred atkins sr played high-school ball with rickey henderson and was taken in the 7th round by the yankees in 1976, the 160th overall selection. a right-handed pitcher, fred sr hurt his arm in class A and by 1984 was bussing tables with me at a restaurant in berkeley, california; he was still close friends with rickey, who that winter signed with fred’s old team, the yankees, for $2 million a year. a couple of years later fred sr got a certificate as a hair stylist; during his training course he absolutely butchered my roommate with the clippers, ended up having to shave him right down to the scalp. fred junior was born in 1988, a year before i left california; i have been long out of touch w/ him. but i learn now from google that fred senior got out of the hair-cutting trade and became a counselor for abused kids --- as befits this large-hearted man. he never expressed a word of bitterness about his injury nor his failure to become a pro ballplayer; it’d be a nice story if his son goes on to realize that ambition. here’s an article about fred junior, who was drafted last year in the 29th round; apparently the kid was regarded as a 15th-round talent this year, but fell in the draft because he’s committed to play next year at jackson state, alma mater of ex-cardinal curt ford and well-remembered bosox pitcher oil can boyd. if he signs w/ the marlins, i’ll be keeping an eye on him.
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Apologies to TLR
From the official site:
Wellemeyer pitched six innings and earned the win in the first game of Thursday’s doubleheader against the Nationals.“[He hurt it] during the game,” La Russa said. “We got him out as soon as he said something. We don’t want to take any chances.”
I was one of the folks who openly bashed TLR for removing Wellemeyer from Thursday’s start due to not having all of the information about the injury. I was wrong. TLR made the absolute right decision. Hopefully Wellemeyer is ready to go next week.
As for Wainwright, say a little prayer Cards fans, because we need him if we hope to compete for the playoffs this season.
Me too
I also questioned TLR’s move re Wellemeyer, basically calling him irrational and irresponsible.
Yet again, I am reminded why TLR is the Cardinals’ manager while I am merely CEO of the U.S.’s 14th largest corporation.
Me too
Let me know if you need someone to pay 6 figures to watch baseball. I am the best at that job.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
That doesn't change my offer
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
In fairness
You didn’t have all the information. I don’t think anyone would have complained had we known the pitcher was hurt.
"We don’t want to take any chances."
...as the crowd chuckles.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
nice story on Fred, Sr.
Hope Fred Jr. goes to college at least for a few years.
Against those Ideas
I am absolutely against the ideas of using McCellan as starter and promoting Jamie Garcia. When was the last time McCellan threw 4 ip+ in a row let alone 5 or 6 ip. If you want him to be a starter than send him down to Memphis so he can increase his workload to a starter. It took like 3 starts to get Reyes back on track from reliever to starter and he was previously a starter. He trained to be a starter and still took him 3 starts. So how in the world could they think they could just throw McCellan out there and think it works out.
Jamie Garcia’s is not ready to be a MLB starter. We should not just be jerking him out of the minors and starting his clock just to fill a gap. He is a serious commodity to the teams future. Just throw Reyes out there for 2 or 3 starts to be a stop gap.
I agree, I don't think McClellan should start
by from First to Third on Jun 9, 2008 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm not sure why Garcia's not ready
his numbers are certainly better than Reyes’ at AAA. I realize he hasn’t been there long but he’s only walked 11 and he’s struck out 38 in 42 IP. I think Reyes is the better choice, based on the fact that he’s on the 40 man roster (and Garcia’s not) and that Garcia won’t be ready to go Thursday, but I’m not convinced Garcia’s not ready.
Watch a couple of his AAA starts
he hasn’t really been sharp. The curveball’s been hit and miss and he gets in some pretty predictable pitch selection patterns.
Pretty predictable pitch selection patterns?
Does Yadier Molina call the pitches in Memphis too?
“Hey Mang, let’s throw nothin’ but fastballs until we get 2 strikes and then not throw anything near the strikezone.”
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm fine with promoting Garcia
although I’d rather them give Reyes another chance. I’m totally against moving McClellan out of the bullpen. He seems to be a good anchor there. We need him in the bullpen!
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 9, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions
+1
at some point you need to take a chance that reyes is any good. right now his record of failure in the bigs makes him of little value. how many teams wiil look at his AAA record and blow off his ML performances? answer—not too many. time to go all in with him or give his spot in memphis to someone with a future. nobody is being fooled by the cards continuing view of him as a AAAA player.
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
Awesome read there
It will be interesting to see how the organization handles the situations. I think the biggest question marks will be wain-o, if he can come back and be healthy and still perform great, I really really hope that Mo and TLR don’t try to rush him back. I also like seeing the youngsters come up and get their chance, and I feel terrible that Parisi can’t look good starting. Hopefully tony doesn’t throw him out there again to burn the pen, and his psyche again. I would think garcia comes up before reyes for the fact duncan and bunch are down on reyes, but I hope reyes comes up and starts putting up Wagonmaker’s numbers, and shuts duncan up.
The team is playing fun baseball right now, and it’s nice to watch the kids. The pitching staff is starting to come down form the badass #’s they were tossing up earlier, but Welley,Lohse,Wain-o have all been consistent in my eyes. Looper scares me, I don’t know what will go on, but it’s gonna be fun the next couple of weeks if we can get welley back, piniero, and carp after the break(no complications, knock on wood)
by from First to Third on Jun 9, 2008 9:31 AM EDT reply actions
in defense of the Loop
tho not spectacular, Looper is a steady, repeat-delivery type pitcher. I think he will actually HELP hold the ship together. Last year’s summer fade is less likely from him this time because he has that one full year as a starter under his belt now.
Is known below average better than possibly good, possibly bad?
Loops a known value. You get 150ip of #4/#5 type innings.
The replacements all have much more upside and downside. We could get anything from great to terrible with Reyes, Garcia, Todd, McCellan or Mortensen.
If you think 20 more starts of #4/#5 type innings will get you to the playoffs, then you stick with Loop. If Wainwright and/or Wellemeyer go down and you need to replace their slots then you have to roll the dice because loop isn’t going to get that done. When you roll those dice you might come up with a great stretch run or we may implode. However, if thats your only choice you have to take the chance because a rotation of 5 #4/#5 types doesn’t get us there.
Given the options to plug into the rotation
The best options are:
1. Boggs
2. Reyes
3. Garcia
Use of anyone other than the three above is a mistake. Mcclellan has been too valuable in the bullpen. Mulder and Clement are clearly not options given their struggles. Parsi has shown he isn’t read. Brad Thompson hasn’t been a useful major league player in two years.
They said Boggs will go agaisnt Bailey Tuesday
two young dudes, looks fun, hopefully boggs no hits the reds for his first MLB start
by from First to Third on Jun 9, 2008 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I'd tend to agree
I would love to see McClellan start. Without Wainwright I don’t see much of a playoff chance for this season. But moving McClellan into rotation was planned next year. It seems they want to conceed the season and get him ready. (which would more than likely make him more ready for next year.)
But to me it would make more sense to send him down to memphis to work on starting. Bring up Reyes and another reliever.
Also an option not mentioned. Thompson begins his rehab at Memphis today. Izzy will begin rehabbing soon also. Izzy return to the bullpen will help it. (or destroy it.)
WonderBrad
I am not a huge fan of Thompson, but to state that he “hasn’t been a useful major league player in two years.” is just wrong. Thompsons combined totals as a starter for the last two seasons are 7-4, 4.40 ERA, including 1-0 as a starter in two appearances in 2008 with a 2.53 ERA and 11 Ks in 10.2 IP. Now we could argue what the standards are for a useful major league player, but Braden Looper would probably like to have a 4.40 ERA over the last two years instead of the 4.92 he has managed.
I know ERA isn’t necessarily the best stat, but Thompson is a young, cost-controlled player that still has a useful life.
While I like McClellan’s future as a starter, I also agree that now is not the time.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
Each season at the major league level Brad Thompson has gotten worse.
2 starts back in April of this season don’t change what is clearly the long term trend.
Here's hoping Wagonmaker's injury
only requires missing a few starts. If it’s not season-threatening, it might actually be good for Adam to miss 2-3 turns of the rotation, thus keeping his IPs lower than otherwise. But a more serious injury? Yikes!
You know, the rest thing, you have a point.....
I’m not sure where I came across the list, but he was #7 in pitcher abuse points for this season. Not good for a young man signed to a long term contract….....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Baseball Prospectus
is the place for PAP. Wainwright is currently #7. If this injury is indeed a minor one…then the time off will be good for him. OTOH if its the serious kind of hurt, then the Cards must seriously look at adding a pitcher. I think they should look at getting Greg Maddux either way. He shouldn’t take alot to pry away from SD and he still has some bullets left. Furthermore, Busch III would be a great home park for him.
Link to stats
Pitcher Abuse Points:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=204015
Another neat BP stat is their playoff odds report (updated daily). According to BP, Cards currently have about a 35% shot at playoffs and have the highest odds of winning the Wild Card at 19%:
Oh, you kids with your computers......
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
I am older than you are
and I get my kicks out of playing with Baseball Prospectus stats.
by StanTheManFan on Jun 9, 2008 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions
post season odds
I was checking out the postseason odds today, as well as the Hardball Times “dartboard” page.
They both have me thinking that, if the Cubs stay as good as they seem to be, we’d still be serious wild card candidates. That didn’t seem remotely possible heading into the season. The main wild card threats are presumably from the East (assuming the Phillies hang on, the threats are Atlanta, Florida, Mets) but also the Brewers and Dodgers if they get their acts together. All seem vulnerable.
The dartboard is pretty cool (and the name is a little misleading): It uses run producing/preventing potential as measured thus far this season from underlying stats, calculates the likely record for the remainder of the season, and adds it to wins/losses already on the books, with a (small) adjustment for strength of schedule. (In the same spirit as the BP postseason odds method.) The THT dartboard has the Cardinals winning 89 games, and Atlanta getting the wildcard with 91, but obviously that is a very imprecise margin so it is neck-and-neck.
A few other BP postseason odds/THT dartboard observations:
The White Sox are predicted to run away with the Central at this point. Cleveland and Detroit are lost causes, and that’s a statistical forecast that doesn’t take into account the losses of Westbrook and Bonderman.
According to their underlying (fundamental) statistics, the Angels are not nearly as good as their record and are predicted to be a clear second to the A’s.
The Rays are for real.
The Braves have been underplaying their potential and are a real threat in the East.
The Cubs are great. We can either accept this, or, we can read between the lines: Fate has created the appearance of greatness in this epic 100th anniversary year so that the Cubs’ collapse this year will be an epic disappointment.
Your NL Wild Card "threats" and my personal observations
Atlanta can’t win away from Turner Field. If that doesn’t change, they’re toast. They’re about to start a series at Wrigley, where the Cubs can’t lose. I’ll be shocked if Chicago doesn’t sweep.
Florida is one of the two big threats in my opinion. They’re playing way above their heads, but so are we. It wouldn’t be fair to say that they’ll have to fall back to earth, and say that we have staying power.
The Mets just got swept in four games by the Padres. The circus that is the Willie Randolph job watch can’t help matters. I don’t see them getting it together to make a run this season, even though they have the talent (outside the pitching staff).
The Brewers have terrible defense, a shaky rotation, and the worst manager in baseball. They’ll make a run, but they’ll also go through epic cold streaks. I picked them to win the Central this season, but I just don’t see them making the playoffs at this point.
The Dodgers are the other main threat, but like the Brewers, go through cold and hot spells it seems. I don’t know why Brad Penny is struggling as much as he is, but he needs to turn it around if they want to do anything this season. They’re also paying $400 trillion for the services of Juan Pierre and Andruw Jones.
The fact that we’ve (thus far) been able to win on the road makes me feel good about our chances. If our playoff odds are 1 in 3 (as BP says) that’s not too shabby for this point in the season.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
Yost is the worst manager in baseball?
I don’t think he’s the worst in his division. That distinction goes to Dusty Baker, who gets my vote for the worst manager in baseball.
I think he is
But Dusty is another good choice
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
Angels
Just had to post this from the main MLB website. They have the Angels ranked 3rd in their “power rankings” (behind the Cubs and Red Sox). Here’s the description:
“The Halos are like the conscientious hunter who doesn’t kill more than he can eat. They’ve gone 18 straight games without scoring more than five runs—and are 13-5 in that stretch. Mike Scioscia’s boys simply are playing a different game: When scoring fewer than six runs, the Tigers have won four games. The Angels? 26.”
I can hear sabermetricians doing spit takes all over America. The Angels are 28-12 in games decided by 2 runs or less….and 11-13 in all other games. Scoring few runs and eking out narrow wins is killing the Angels in the BP postseason odds/THT dartboard projections.
support for Jill, and my 'personal' grrr re 'prospectus stats'
in ncgostic’s distillation above, I spotted:
”...Cleveland and Detroit are lost causes, and that’s a statistical forecast …”
oh yeah? See ya in late September.
I just traded Longoria away for Wagonmaker
2 weeks ago in my fantasy league.
So, essentially, we’re f*cked.
I need to play catch up
here also, haven’t had much time lately. Big promotion at work and all that go’s along with it is zapping my time and energy. The funny part is they gave ME a staff, laughable isn’t it. What do you think the looks on their faces will be when I tell them I need the road night splits for Ryan Ludwick right away? Chop Chop!!! I don’t like idle hands so if anybody has anything they need looked up I’ll get them on it. Yeah, don’t think I be able to keep this job that long but it should be a fun ride.
Did get to watch all three games this weekend which was a treat. Even more so on Saturdays game because of a messed up alternate FSN Houston feed that for the first three innings didn’t have any commentary. I had sound, you could here the crowd fine just no stupid talking from idiot Astros announcers. It was so enjoyable, like sitting at the ballpark. I wish there was a mute button on my remote that just shut the announcers off, it would be so cool.
As for bringing A Rey back up, did Jillsinmo put you up to that? Not that it’s that bad of an idea but certainly not my first choice. I hope Boggs is ready for the big show or we could be in a world of trouble.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Jun 9, 2008 10:17 AM EDT reply actions
Current rotation:
Lohse, Boggs, Looper, Wainwright, Lohse using the off day means we only need one replacement if Wainwright can’t pitch. After that though we still need 2 more. So are we going to have a Lohse, Boggs, Looper, Reyes, Garcia rotation? Is Piniero ready? Will Clement be? Thompson hasn’t pitched yet but I almost want him to be that guy. Mulder even wouldn’t be the worst case if it meant keeping Garcia in AAA learning. If they move KMac into the rotation to take that spot does Izzy come off the DL into the Pen or does Motte come up? Too many questions right now.
Hey, I didn't have a thing to do with it......
It’s my birthday today, so everyone eat cake!
No. I don’t think Mr. Reyes should be called up. I think Mr. Mozeliak needs to get over this idea that this young man has any kind of a future in St. Louis…..I think Mr. Reyes has been a good soldier and has earned the right to be sent to a team that actually would like to have him around, try to work with him instead of against him, not denigrate him in the press.
Nope. His next move should be the permanent one, and Mr. Duncan and Mr. LaRussa have made it clear they don’t want him here, so I say cash him in for a pitcher in his walk year. How about Randy Wolf or A. J. Burnett? Maybe you could get them to stay next year too.
I hope that wasn’t too pathological, and if you all will indulge me, I haven’t ranted for at least a few days. It’s too bad that it hasn’t and won’t work out for Mr. Reyes here. The best thing is to just trade him for a pitcher-today would be good.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Happy Birthday
Maybe Mo will trade Reyes today as a birthday gift to you. Remember that one when your blowing out the candles, just don’t tell anyone or it won’t come true.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Jun 9, 2008 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
It would be great news if it were to happen......
I had high hopes for him, and hoped he would be a part of the rotation for a long time. Since that can’t happen, I think keeping him around is just stupid, a waste of roster space, a waste of $392,500. His value is not going to go up in AAA and they are taking a big risk that he could get hurt before they manage to get him out of here. Yes, under those circumstances I’m keeping my fingers crossed that Mr. Mozeliak will do it today.
Thanks for the birthday wishes….am going to drink heavily tonight.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
How
can you say it’s “not going to happen?”
I still say it’s absolutely ridiculous to say “Mr. Mozeliak” or “Mr. LaRussa” have some kind of personal vendetta with “Mr. Reyes.”
He should get the call, he should start in Wainwright’s place.
You can’t put the good of one player ahead of the good of the entire team.
Because I don't think it will.....
I don’t think Mr. Mozeliak has a personal vendetta against Reyes; I don’t know if LaRussa has a personal vendetta against him either. It’s clear he doesn’t want him on the team-it’s doubly clear Mr. Duncan doesn’t. That’s why I think it’s best, for the team and the player, that he be dealt. Use him now for the kind of pitcher they’d prefer to have…...
And lboros said he didn’t want anyone going all pathological about it. So I’m out of here before I get him or anyone else mad at me…......
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
jill, i wasn't talking about YOU being pathological
i was suggesting that it would be pathological on the part of the cardinals if, instead of straightforwardly calling up reyes for the start, they twist themselves into pretzels in order to find some other solution. in my mind, reyes is such an obvious solution that it would be pathological to avoid taking that solution . . .
great, but
who would you get for the king of AAAA pitchers?
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
Maddox, anyone?
The internet buzz is that that Padres are shopping Greg Maddox around. Apparently the Reds had interest, but Maddox will only “go to a contender,” and he prefers to stay in the NL. Say, Reyes (he can throw all the 2-seam fastballs he wants in San Diego’s big outfield park) and Duncan for Maddox? Parts for a rental. Maddox will eat innings and solidify the back end of the rotation for the remainder of the season. Thoughts? The home team’s reliance on young arms is positive – who knew the Cardinals organization had so many possibilities? But something will need to happen to keep the team, particularly the starting rotation, from imploding.
...and there’s always the David Wells option. :-)
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
Reyes and Duncan seems like too much just for Maddux
Maybe I’m completely wrong about that
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
+1
I think you could potentially get Maddox for Reyes alone. Reyes brings youth and a several million cut to the payroll.
Maybe a lower level prospect would have to be included, but Reyes and Duncan seem like too much.
Spelling police...
The future Hall of Famer and 350+ game winner spells his name MADDUX. There was an NFL draft bust quarterback named Tommy Maddox.
I think that Maddux would be an excellent target for the Cards. However, I think that SD would want Reyes + a young outfielder.
Thank you, Inakind (aka today's Scrabble Dictionary)
Reyes and a young outfielder works, don’t you think? We’ve got plenty of outfield prospects at the moment, and we’ve had plenty of Reyes… though I watched the 2006 World Series DVD the other night and I can’t help but think that there is hope for Mr. Reyes yet.
Reyes + prospect = Maddux. With a “U.” I’ll be sure to print it correctly on the back of the jersey when he starts pitching for the Cardinals.
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
No worries
I just think that someone with Maddux’s resume deserves the respect of having his name spelled correctly. You can refer to me however you want. I am just an average joe.
pretty sure i've heard mike shannon pronounce it "maddox" before
with quite an accent on the “-dox”. makes me chuckle sometimes. but he’s mike shannon, so i guess he can spell/pronounce names however he wants!
i was
just going to post this
If you are in St. Louis check out my band, Griffin and the Gargoyles
(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)
www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles
:-D
Shannon is
just another version of the malaprop comic Norm Crosby; he’s constantly mispronouncing names(plus, he’s not exactly the sharpest knife in the drawer, either). I remember he used to pronounce Geoff Jenkins first name “Joff”.
If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.
Tommy Maddox draft bust
What are you talking about?
Surely you mean the XFL league MVP in their sole season of existence, who led the might LA Xtreme to a victory in the Million Dollar Game.
He was supposed to be the next Elway
Instead he became the first Ryan Leaf. To his credit he did resurrect his career somewhat in the XFL and later he had a decent year with Pittsburgh. I actually attended a few XFL games when I lived in Vegas. The Vegas Gamblers (very creative) had the immortal Rod Smart a.k.a. He Hate Me.
Thanks for the correction
Although since Tommy was a QB maybe he could pump a few fastballs in there somewhere around 93???
Ha.....I always thought Andy Roddick, the tennis player with the big 150 MPH serve
would be a good pitcher. But then my son reminds me he is only 5’6” and the racket has more to do with the 150 MPH than Andy’s exquisite overhand extension of his arm…..So, maybe there’s a bigger tennis player with racket sized hands out there? Just thinking outside of the box here…..
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Roddick is 6'2
I’d imagine he could get it up around 90+ with a little training though learning the totally different lower half mechanics would be tricky. But he even has good arm action on his serve haha…
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
Honestly? He's 6'2"? I'll never believe another word my son says.......I guess I should have checked.
That’s acompletely different story than, isn’t it. He has great arm action and that ball just explodes on the serve…..sign him up.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
....a completely different story then.......
I’m calling out the grammar police on myself…....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Makes sense from a Karma polics aspect as well
Cubs now have EdmUnds and we’d have Maddux. Makes sense to me.
emotionally (for me) yes, yes, yes
Greg Maddux has been my favorite (non-Cardinal) pitcher for years. He’s smart.
If he joined the Birds it would be a Larry Walker moment, for me. Or, going back too many years for some of you, a Roger Maris moment.
And it would no be all that impractical either, even tho his tank is nearly on E. He’ll eat innings, even if at a 5.00 ERA clip, and his influence on a young staff might be very valuable.
too costly
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
hey lb
just glad i wasnt drinking something when i read the part about your 6-year-old
i dont mind seeing boggs go tomorrow, but i would rather keep k-mac in the pen
Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.
Waino
will be alright. He may have to start throwing a four seamer for a few weeks. His curve doesn’t involve too much finger extension, more wrist and elbow. He has started over throwing quite a bit in his last few starts, which I attribute to overuse and fatigue, and maybe a little of the dreaded, ” Grandslam-idus”.
I believe you will be seeing Reyes. This is a good time to show your wares before the Break. There is a business side to this game.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jun 9, 2008 11:42 AM EDT reply actions
He hurt his finger throwing the curveball
He can’t grip the ball at all right now, I don’t think he’s going to be able to throw it for a little while.
by gej on Jun 9, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
"His curve doesn’t involve too much finger extension"
Admit it…you just make all this sh!t up, don’t you?
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Which finger did he hurt?
Adam doesn’t use his pointer finger for his curveball, he leaves it pointed to the sky. He may clip the ball with it at the last second but he doesn’t ‘grip’ it except with his middle finger and thumb.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe he hurt his middle finger
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
It was the middle finger
He can flick out with no prob, but gripping is impossible. No chance he comes out of that game unless he couldn’t throw, he was only at ~70 pitches.
by gej on Jun 9, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
If it was the index finger
he still couldn’t throw unless he planned on just throwing curveballs and circle changes the rest of the game :D
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions
He points it to the sky?
That seems like something a batter might be able to pick up on, to me at least…
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
Just repeating some "Gossip" for Ilboros
Some of this stuff isn’t for everyone, so just relax and let it go. My intension isn’t to disturb you gentle folk.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jun 9, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
isn't this the guy
who is usually right about everything, even after people make fun of him?
by baw on Jun 9, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Well in this case I really hope he is right
I hope it is a quick heal. I have a bad feeling about it, however, and it gets worse the longer they don’t say anything. We’ve all been down this road before.
Obviously, I don’t agree that the finger isn’t important to his curve. I’m pretty sure every pitch in an person’s arsenal is going to be affected by a bad digit. At this point it’s really all about how bad the thing really is and what’s needed to heal it. And hopefully we’ll find out soon.
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 9, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions
Understanding the finger
pressure issues for a professional pitcher would probably surprise most laymen. There is no “death grip” when these guys are pitching. There is however more pressure at the end of their motion than most people would guess. A good example is Pedro Martinez. For a relatively small guy, he has huge hands, and very long fingers. His game has always been about his ability to rotate the ball at the last moment as the ball leave his finger tips. This is what creates all of the odd breaking pitches he throws. Waino is 6ft 7in tall, big hands, long fingers. The two seam fastball is thrown with the middle and index fingers only. The action, or movment comes with the push as the ball leaves the fingertips. The torque from arms speed through the fingertips is substantial. Less so for the curve because the fingers are closer together, with the torque dissipating through the wrist to the elbow. Slider is more extreme still….....its the Tommy Johns pitch. If you griped a splitter to hard your arm would come off…......Thats why its such a difficult pitch to master…......hope that helps
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jun 9, 2008 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
for a guy his size
his hands aren’t very big, and it was the curveball that hurt his finger.
Completely against K-Mac in the rotation
I don’t know what the best option might be, though. One idea that’s waaaaaay outside the box (and don’t laugh too hard at me now) is Roger Clemens. I hate him as a person, and I don’t know his status as far as pitching this year, but if Barry Bonds is still looking for work and TLR at least wants to sign him, what about the Rocket?
Let the Mr Redbird bashing commence lol
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
Mr. Redbird
You shouldn’t be drinking the crazy juice this early on a Monday morning. Clearly, that is the only explanation for your suggestion re: Clemens
When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?
by RosevilleRedbird on Jun 9, 2008 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Roger Clemens? @#@#$*&^ !!!
No! He’s old, he lies, he cheats and most importantly, did you see him pitch last year? He wasn’t any good….....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
None of the other options are that good, either
Much cheaper than he’d come, of course. Like I said, it’s just a very outside the box thought. By the way, Clemens’ OPS+ last season was 107, so he was above average. One thought I just had against my original idea, though, is that if he did like he’s done in the past, it would take him a few minor league starts to get ready, and by that time Wainwright, Wellemeyer, Pineiro, maybe even Clement could possibly be ready. So I retract my idea, but only because of the rehab thing. He may be a complete asshole, but if TLR wanted Bonds, then you’d have to imagine he’d have no problem with Clemens.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
ERA+
although, hell… OPS+ actually was 166 (one single in two at-bats)! sign him!
by baw on Jun 9, 2008 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Heh
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
on top of that
just think of the kind of women he brings to the ballpark…yikes!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
The only thing I like about it is
how much it would annoy Astros fans
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Joel Zumaya
Zumaya had a finger ligament injury last year and missed a large chunk of the season.
Nah that was the "he throws 103 and it made his finger tendon explode"
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
Don't think so
IIRC, the injury the Tigers associated with Zumaya’s excessive “Guitar Hero” playing was reportedly forearm soreness rather than a finger issue. They described it as a sort of unspecified “tendonitis,” but I think that’s just because they couldn’t really isolate it and that’s the best excuse they could come up with. Zumaya is also on record as stating that he still doesn’t think it was the game…he thinks it’s from gripping the baseball really hard. But that’s probably just cuz he wants to keep on rockin’ out to “Sweet Child O’ Mine” from Guns N’ Roses…
As someone who also plays a LOT of Guitar Hero and Rock Band, your forearm does indeed get very sore from songs with lots of fast strumming. And from, ahem, playing 3+ hours straight. It’s the same bundle of muscles on the top of the forearm near the elbow that bulge up when you make a fist and pull the back of your hand up to make a right angle with your arm.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
thanks for clearing it up
i had similar soreness from my days of rocking out to sweet child o’ mine, but what was worse was my left (fret) hand, especially my pinky early on when i was still getting used to it.
Guitar Hero and Repetitive Motion Disorders
Yeah, my left (fret) wrist tends to bark at me more than my right (strumming) forearm from long “concerts.”
However, my guess is that Mr. Zumaya likes his metal, a lot of which has tons of repeated fast strums (Yeah, I’m lookin’ at YOU, Metallica!).
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Reyes
I agree with all of you who advocate another start for Reyes.
Even it it’s only one start, let him have it. Forget the numbers for a minute, and consider the rotten luck this guy’s had the last year or so. It’s got to end sometime, right? Why not tell him that this is a spot start, nothing more, and let him relax and pitch? Don’t worry about trying to make a case to stay in the rotation. Don’t wonder about whether you’re staying up or going back down to Memphis. Tell him that he’s here for one start and then back down. Don’t you think that might leave him with a little fire to throw his best?
Just do what you can to take the pressure off the kid, and give him a chance to be the beneficiary of some good luck for a change.
My prediction for Reyes’ next start in the Cardinals rotation (if it ever happens)...
6.2 IP, 5 Hits, 2 BB, 4 SO, 2 ER.
I hope that I get the chance to be right about this.
My first memory of Cardinals baseball is seeing Darrell Porter jump into Bruce Sutter's arms on October 20, 1982!
MGL posted some UZR stuff
Of note: Cardinals +24 runs is 2nd in the NL
Per 150 games />Pujols best at 1B +26 runs
Kennedy second at 2B with +23….go figure
Glaus 4th at +9 (Rolen +43, best in the game at any position and widest margin of “victory”)
Unless there’s another Duncan LF’er, he’s got Chris Duncan at +28.
Edmonds is at -38, worst CF’er in the game.
I have no idea how Duncan could possibly be the third best LF’er in the majors at +28 per 150 games. Then again he also has a solid RZR….are our eyes really lying that badly???
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
Not sure why it read the "per 150 games" as HTML but there's no link there...
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
interesting that Ankiel isn't one of the top CF's
and izturis isn’t one of the top SS’s… though izturis wouldn’t be a surprise if you looked at RZR, ankiel would be. Wonder how he has Brendan Ryan ranked (who is significantly- almost 100 points- better than izturis by RZR?)
I wish he would make the full spreadsheet available…
"the hardest decision to make is to do nothing; there is a terrible temptation to interfere." -gen patton
Reyes is the smart move for the next open start.
He has experience(finally…) at least more than others being considered at the major league level.(I feel that is the most ironic sentence I have typed to date)
I think he can give us a solid outing and not implode. I would guess no more than 4 runs over 5 to 6 innings which beats the snot out of the unkown.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
interesting comments by bernie...
Memphis lefthander Jamie Garcia, a top prospect, is 3-2 with a 3.16 ERA and is moving closer to getting his shot here. The organization is excited over Class AA Springfield righthander Jess Todd, who has an ERA of 1.00 in six starts after his promotion from high Class A. Would the Cardinals pull Todd straight from Class AA and directly to the majors? Don’t rule it out.
i can’t believe that todd would get a call, nor can i say that i would agree with that decision. while i’m on the topic of todd though, is anyone else confused as to why clayton mortenson got the promotion to memphis when his numbers at springfield were not that impressive? todd has absolutely dominated, i really would’ve thought he would be the pitcher in line for promotion.
2.57 GO/AO ratio
for Mortensen has something to do with it.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
that too.
I was just talking about why Mortensen deserved a promotion.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions
not to slight mortensen
but I’m not sure he earned it so much as he was doing ok at AA and they needed a warm body at AAA. He’s certainly done some things right (as you pointed out) but it was a somewhat strange promotion.
Mort got a really long look in the spring though
i believe there was even some speculation that he’d make the team out of spring training in the spot that Thompson or K-Mac got. I know I was quite surprised he started out at AA…
"the hardest decision to make is to do nothing; there is a terrible temptation to interfere." -gen patton
Two time All Star
How often does a guy make 2 all star teams? Todd made the High A team before being promoted and the AA team after.
Another reason
could be that this is Todd’s first full year and they’re afraid to rush him too much. He’s done very well so far, but a ML start in your first full year of pro ball? I’m sure there have been several do that over the years, but still in the vast minority.
by ArkansasTravs on Jun 9, 2008 4:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with Larry
Gotta go with Reyes for this start. It makes perfect sense. It’s the proverbial no-brainer. But somehow I doubt it will happen.
KMac is one of the really bright spots in the pen this year, and I’d hate to create one big hole while attempting to patch another.
Speaking of unwillingness to move guys out of their bullpen spot when they’re doing well, I’m surprised Tony would want to do that with KMac. In the past he’s argued vociferously against moving Franklin from the ‘pen to starter despite the fact that FRANKLIN USED TO BE A STARTER, claiming repeatedly that you don’t take a guy out of his role when he’s succeeding. Well, what’s KMac doin’ for the team in the pen? He’s been nails.
Now they want to do another “out-of-nowhere” conversion from pen to starting rotation? What’s with these guys? Hell, if they absolutely refuse to use Reyes, let’s just have Franklin make the spot start. We can let either KMac or Perez close.
Nah, that’ll never happen, either.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
I don't really have a good vibe on it either
All speculation at this point though.
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 9, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions
The fact that nothing has been said
and they’ve been ‘bustling’ around Busch Stadium all afternoon, they are more than likely calling whomever needs to be notified that they are being called up and preparing for the press conference.
You have to imagine at this point that the 15 day DL is the best case scenario right now.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
More nothing from Bernie's Pressbox
Post subject: Re: No news is bad news??
Posted: 09 Jun 2008 17:24 pm
There’s been a news blackout … no one will talk… this tells me that the news ain’t good.
-B
__
by cardsfaninmass on Jun 9, 2008 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions
On the radio, Will Carroll
just said that if the news is what is to be expected (torn ligament) it’ll be a 4 month recovery.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh dear
why do bad things always happen to good people
by cardsfaninmass on Jun 9, 2008 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Post subject: Re: No news is bad news??
Posted: 09 Jun 2008 17:27 pm
Will Carroll is on with us now; very informative…
he said it could be several things, but he’d be “very surprised” if it isn’t a ruptured tendon.
-B
_
by cardsfaninmass on Jun 9, 2008 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions
By the way
Why don’t people use K/(27 PA) rather than K/ (9 IP)? It seems like ranking pitchers by the fraction of outs that are strikeouts is less interesting than ranking them by how often they strike out batters overall.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Ease of calculation...
It’s pretty stupid but does anyone know where they actually do the k/27 sortable for the whole league and all?
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
BP has everything you need to calculate it
But its not in their normal stats list.
OT: Mets signed J-Rod
Matthew Cerrone is reporting that the Mets signed J-Rod this last weekend (as well as Abraham Nunez).
Hopefully he’ll stay healthy and will help the Mets beat the Cubs at least once this year…
"the hardest decision to make is to do nothing; there is a terrible temptation to interfere." -gen patton
Will Carrol
is on 1380 and said that his sources say the Cardinals medical staff have contacted the Tigers medical staff because of their expertise in dealing with Zumaya’s finger surgery for a torn tendon.
There is also a media blackout currently by the Cardinals according to Bernie.
Not good.
as would i
a 4 month recovery would put him ready to go in october. if we get that far (we won’t without wainwright), we wouldn’t just throw him out there.
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 9, 2008 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Silence isn't always golden
Started to suspect something amiss more and more the less they say. They’re usually pretty quick to jump the gun and say “all is well” until it’s 100% certain it’s not ok.
Not much to say other than this sucks.
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 9, 2008 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Bernie's love affair with Thompson become grating
after awhile. I mean, I like Brad and think he’s a decent pitcher but if he uses the Cardinals record when Thompson pitches as a reason that he should be given a shot, I’m going to kick a small puppy.
Since it's an act of revulsion toward Thompson
shouldn’t you hug and play with a small puppy when you read that?
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Who do we roll the dice on?
Seems like the options are McCellan, Reyes, Garcia, Walters, Todd, Mortensen
McCellan has started to struggle as a reliever, is not conditioned as a started and has a history of arm problems. I would skip.
Reyes: Lost much of his upside, known downside. As much as I like the guy I cannot see him doing well as long as Duncan is still here.
Garcia: Best numbers of our starters in AAA, Zips was optimistic. Would probably fit in on the staff. Downside seems to be control.
Walters: Stuggling at AAA, doesn’t have stuff that translates well to the majors with his current control issues.
Todd: Probably the best stuff of the options but has not pitched above AA. Was not projected as a MLB starter origionally. Deceptive delivery may translate well.
Mortensen: Still struggling in the minors. Promoted agressivly but like Walters is not doing well at his current level.
So it seems like you can quickly rule out everyone but Todd, Garcia, and Reyes. Since I think there is a zero chance Duncan and Reyes don’t butt heads I don’t see how he can do well at the MLB level for us.
My bet would be on Garcia with Todd as the alternate candidiate.
Of course, there is also the option of trading outfielders
for a #4/#5 type starter somewhere, too.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
While I would love that
It would be fun to see his reaction when Duncan tried to fix his delivery. j/k
Seriously, If a Reyes + Skip trade would get that done, I would jump on it. It would be nice to have a 2nd pitching coach that actually know what pitching is.
Careful there now........
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
I doubt very much he would try to fix
anything to do with Maddux. LaRussa and Duncan drool over guys like Maddux. They’d probably be too awestruck to even speak to him.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2008 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Except to ask him for his autograph...?
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 9, 2008 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Even then
they’d probably get The Cat to ask for them.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2008 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
You are probably right.
We know that Tony and Dave love the ‘W’
Maddux has more of those than the entire cardinals staff combined. (Its pretty close, I might have added wrong)
I go Reyes
I think it makes most sense to give him the first crack. There are pro’s and con’s to each approach, and you do a nice job of listing them, but to me the dealbreaker is Clement. If you hold out hopes he might make it through this rehab and start eventually, then I think you give the ball to Reyes and let the other farmhands stay at their current levels. Each of the guys listed might have more long term projection to the org, but if you think it is a stopgap measure why start their clocks now? On top of that, none of the others have been at their current level for a very long time either. Todd and Garcia have been successful with their moves so far. Walters and Mortensen have been mixed. That’s even being kind to Walters. I’m actually starting to be concerned that the scouts may have been right about Walters stuff not playing well as he moves up.
Reyes has nothing to prove in AAA. Give him the starts. If Clement surprises, if Garcia or Todd continues to deal, or if Mortensen or Walters start blowing people away at you level, then you finally give Reyes his opportunity somewhere else. For whatever return you can get.
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 9, 2008 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
+1, fish or cut bait w/ reyes
if he does well, fine, if he doesn’t, dfa him and see what’s out there.
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
If Wainwright doest turn out to be out for four months
We need to shut him down for the year. He is much more valuable to this team in the long-run than what he would maybe offer in October. Also, I doubt he would be very ready to contribute because he wouldn’t have pitched for four months.
The fact that we’re contending is great this year, and he is no doubt a big part of that. We will just need him for the next five years more than would necessitate pushing him and risking possible further injury.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
The thing that worries me the most about this
isn’t what it does to Adam but what it does to Mo. He needs to stick to his guns and move Lohse at the deadline to further fill the minor league system. Without Wainwright, that makes it harder for him to do that and save face…unless of course 2 of the 3 in Carpenter, Clement or Mulder ever make it back into the rotation.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2008 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I think it depends on where we are
Lohse could be valuabe for the whole season. If we start to fade, then i say he’s out of there. But, if we’re right in the thick of it, I’m not sure it’s the right move, and I know Moz wouldn’t do it. The organization just needs to keep things in perspective. We weren’t expecting to contend this year, but we are. However, even as good as we’ve done this year, the future is even brighter. As long as we don’t give up the farm for a couple of rentals in the hope of making a postseason splash, then any postseason games we play is just icing on the cake.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
Let's go Ken Griffey Jr!
Hit #600 already!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The extra ! for westcoast fans.
Oh, I am so glad to hear that......
My youngest son has a poster of Ken Griffey, Jr. jumping near the outfield wall when he was about 20 years old. Every time I see it, I think of what could have been, and I forget that even with all of the injuries, he’s accomplished quite a lot. I love him for the joy he expresses on the field….. I am so glad he got 600.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Oh.....nevermind....Yikes, I read that as he hit it........damn you, Killian Red before dinner.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
A solid choice though I err towards Leinie's Red
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
He's gonna hit if off of the Cardinals
He got number 500 off of us, as I recall, and clemens got his 300th win off of us, (if memory serves)...
When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?
by RosevilleRedbird on Jun 9, 2008 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions
There it is
Absolute rip down the RF line
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
Dontrelle Willis
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
Just think
We could have sent Anthony Reyes, Chris Duncan, and Colby Rasmus to Florida for him in 2006. Actually, knowing Jocketty, I’m kinda surprised we didn’t.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
Let's not bury the guy
after the first inning.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2008 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions
How about the first inning and a third?
Leaves with the bases loaded, gave up 5 runs
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
I'm not watching the game
but that’s awful.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2008 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
His final line:
1.1 IP
3 H
5 BB
2 K
8 ER
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
That was based off of more than the 1st anyway
Entering the game he had 16 BB to 3 K. It was just a matter of time till he went nuclear.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
in search of 2 miracles, reyes for wiilis
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
Apparently Brett Wallace got in a fight in his CWS game
Something about it written in Bernie’s pressbox. I’ve got the LSU/UC-Irvine game on where I am. Anyone got any details?
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
No, it was today's game
It was just before first pitch. Wallace and Ike Davis got into it, although they haven’t said why yet…
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
Izzy pitched
Izzy pitched down in Palm Beach today
2.0 IP 1 H 0 BB 1 SO
I like no walks but who knows
Why 2 IP, I wonder?
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
Maybe they just said, "throw 30 pitches' or whatever
and his first inning went really smoothly
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
Wallace got into a fight with Ike Davis his teammate
The game is on ESPNU and they have some video of the fight. Teams were in pre-game warmup, or in pre-game introductions and suddenly Ike Davis goes after Wallace who is walking off the field. The announcers have not explained why it happened, other than to say there is a lot of pressure on the game today.
Ike Davis was the first round pick of the New York Mets, they are both widely considered the 2 best players on ASU and are both up for awards. The whole ASU team were trying to pull the 2 apart as they wrestled on the ground, Fresno St. watched on dumbfounded.
Wallace saw about 8 pitches in the first and walk, and later scored.
Get that Cards-Pond Scum rivalry going early, I see :)
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
Already one of my favorites then
Wallace already knows how to make the fans happy.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I never did see details of his injury
Anyone know what it was?
I think it was a mild case of
not good enough to pitch in St. Louis with the lingering effects of not wanting to disrupt the Memphis rotation.
But I’m not a doctor.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2008 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Article on stlcardinals.com
The best part is this sentence:
He was placed on the disabled list on April 29 with “inflammation to the right elbow,” and the Cardinals made it retroactive to April 23.
I love the quotes around “inflammation to the right elbow”; just makes it seem like a made-up injury
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
Brett Wallace just hit a homerun
Solo shot. Should fit right in with the organization
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
Maybe Wainwright is ok
Wainwright met with team doctors Monday and rest was prescribed for the injury that forced him to leave Saturday’s start early. According to a release from the team Wainwright will be re-evaluated later this week to see if rest and ongoing treatment will permit him to begin throwing again.
If he had an MRI, wouldn’t a tear in the finger ligament be pretty visable? Not very much for the tear to hide behind inside the hand.
“In Adam’s case we are hopeful that the prescribed rest will help him to avoid any long-term absence from the rotation,” general manager John Mozeliak said in a release from the team.
So, that’s a plus.
Maybe Wainwright is ok
Wainwright met with team doctors Monday and rest was prescribed for the injury that forced him to leave Saturday’s start early. According to a release from the team Wainwright will be re-evaluated later this week to see if rest and ongoing treatment will permit him to begin throwing again.
If he had an MRI, wouldn’t a tear in the finger ligament be pretty visable? Not very much for the tear to hide behind inside the hand.
“In Adam’s case we are hopeful that the prescribed rest will help him to avoid any long-term absence from the rotation,” general manager John Mozeliak said in a release from the team.
So, that’s a plus.
Hmm
Why didn’t they ever say whether there was a tear or not? It’s good that it didn’t say there was a tear, but it concerns me that they didn’t say there was no tear. Hopefully, though, this is fantastic news. Stay tuned for Thursday or Friday.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
That sounds way too much like our other pitchers
Then when the rehab starts and goes bad, we just delayed the real fix.
+1
As positive as I’m trying to be about this – it sounds exactly like the line we’ve heard the last couple of years with Carp, Mulder, Rolen and anyone else who’s gotten hurt.
I think I'm the last holdout
I’ve always been the “oh they the med team has more info than us it’s just been a run of bad luck in rehab” but I give up at this point. Even I’m “yeah sure we’ll see how this shit actually goes”.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
Do we know for sure he had the MRI?
Sorry if I missed it in the thread above. But if he had the MRI (or if the test was negative), wouldn’t they say something like “MRI test revealed NO tear to the ligament in his finger.”
So either he hasn’t had the test, the results aren’t available yet, or the news is bad and will drop soon.
possibly a partial tear
I had a thumb injury a few years back that was diagnosed as a “partial tear,” it required nothing more than two weeks in a cast and some minor exercises to get strength and motion back. Granted I’m no MLB pitcher, but the injury healed completely with no surgery.
by MotherTruckinSteve on Jun 9, 2008 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, from the same artcle
The team also announced that Todd Wellemeyer (elbow) will return to the team’s starting rotation when they return home to face Philadelphia this weekend.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
and Pineiro will likely take Wainwright's
start on Thursday.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 9, 2008 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions
barf
but good to hear he’s healthy again before wainwright goes on the dl.
by stlcardinalsfang on Jun 9, 2008 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
That sucks
...now what are we going to talk about?
The debate about who to backfill for Wagonmaker would have consumed this blog!
please, this is the Cardinals
those pitchers will make one start and be tragically injured in a more severe and [sarcasm] unforseeable [/sarcasm] way.
Dont mind me.
Im going to go somewhere and cry myself to sleep.
Ps.
Please Mo; DO NOT trade away young talent for a stop gap. Unless that youn talent is named Reyes or plays courner outfield.
All
of the relevant information on this subject is in my earlier posts. The interesting question here is how many variables are involved in the front office “shroud of mystery ”. You guys have hit on a number of them….....there are more.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jun 9, 2008 10:00 PM EDT reply actions
let me guess:
There are seven ways that the five digits twist and adam has only lifted three of the veils; deep within the stygian stream there are four additional techniques he has yet to master. TLR understands that he must take this time to visit with the eastern oracle or his curve will always be thrown in vain and his fastballs never fly true. Rumors say that the Sumerians knew of the slider long before Charles Bender was ever even borne, and since Wainwright is a virgo (and foolishly made his first big league appearance on September 11th, under the harvest moon) he doesn’t need an expert in force-field balancing to tell him the strength of his chi. Paletta is sharpening his saw and we should expect an amputation soon, which will greatly improve adam’s 4-finger fastball.
"the hardest decision to make is to do nothing; there is a terrible temptation to interfere." -gen patton
He could have three-finger Brown surgery
And wouldn’t it be fun to have Phil Jackson as the Cards’ manager?
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 10, 2008 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Nicely done
Interesting how in one sentence we are told all the relevant info is in earlier posts. Then in the next we are given a tease that there are more variables than are being discussed here.
Anyway, I don’t think it’s all that complicated. He’s hurt. He’s not being held back to showcase Reyes. Or anyone else. If he were able to pitch right now he would, but he isn’t. The question is how long it takes to recover, and the Cards are about as reliable as Baghdad Bob when it comes to communicating that type of thing.
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 10, 2008 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Thats great sleepy
I’m watching Tampa crush the Angels. Did you know that Scott Boris has a luxury field level box with a window looking into the dugout. Its like an extended dugout. The Diamond Club is right behind home plate about 20 rows up. You can eat the buffet for about forty bucks. Full bar, its nice.
What effect do you think the team preference,15 day DL has on Waino, instead of waiting a few days to see if he can throw? Were only 2 back, but is management backing this team, or will they go back to the rebuild mode they were in at the start of the season? Is it too expensive to try for the summit this year, or do you trade your food and oxygen bottles and hope for better weather and a resupply. Clearly this team has no offensive punch at all, and since this team is about profit margins, where will that talent come from….....Look at the trade rumors. Do you think the Cards might like three players from the Phillies for Lohse. Seattle is trying to bail Bedard already on a deal like that…How do you keep selling tickets, and preserve carefully groomed illusions for the unwashed….{ baseball addicted} folks. I see what is going on. The information is in my earlier posts. Treat sentences as paragraphs and think a little. There isn’t a player amongst you is there.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jun 10, 2008 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
don't hate the playahs
hate the game. If you want to have ANY credibility whatsoever, don’t just spout stuff like you’re some kind of prophet. Either give links to information from credible sources (IE, mlbtraderumors, espn, baseball prospectus, etc) that back up what you are saying, or at the very least say “Scott BorAs’ shoe shine boy told me that…”
If the latter, expect us to be skeptical. Most of us grew up in the frigging show-me state, after all. Insulting us and saying “y’all aren’t players” is just stupid.
"the hardest decision to make is to do nothing; there is a terrible temptation to interfere." -gen patton
Thank you sleepy.....I needed that!
I’m cheating, I’ll admit. I also know why oil is so high. Sorry about this, I’ll give it a break for a few weeks.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jun 10, 2008 1:56 AM EDT up reply actions
that's not what I'm saying
No one wants you to go away. Just give us a bit more credit; we’re not idiots, and if you have good information to share, which it seems you might, it’s very easy to do it in a way that is less insulting and more believable.
"the hardest decision to make is to do nothing; there is a terrible temptation to interfere." -gen patton
and some what easier
‘structurally’ on the eyes.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2008 2:42 AM EDT up reply actions
Uhh
Considering Boras’ box is literally right behind the plate (you can frequently see him standing in the box watching the game) I severely doubt this supposed window exists, unless the window also goes through the 3-4 boxes to its left. That’d be impressive engineering. Maybe it’s one of those camera things like they have for the new cars instead of a rear view mirror.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
During the rectification of the Vuldrini, the traveler came as a large and moving Torg! Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the McKetrick supplicants, they chose a new form for him: that of a giant Slor! Many Shuvs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Slor that day, I can tell you!
Dusty Baker
Probably been mentioned a number of times, but I just saw it – with Griffey’s HR tonight Baker has been the manager for half of the six 600th home runs that have been hit in major league baseball history (along with Bonds and Sosa).
I guess he’s kind of like the Forrest Gump of MLB managers.
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 9, 2008 11:53 PM EDT reply actions
Scratch that - I misread the bit about Sosa
Sosa didn’t hit #600 until after Baker managed him. But he did manage Bonds when he hit his, and now Griffey.
by BTown Birds fan on Jun 9, 2008 11:55 PM EDT up reply actions
He was there when Aaron hit
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 10, 2008 1:42 AM EDT up reply actions
saw this on a bears board
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230763
go to comment 2 and scroll through his post..he then has a pick of jimmy and a quote that says Jim edmonds delaying felix pies growth til 2009
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
oh no
it’s even better than that. he actually says “Holding out Felix Pie’s growth until the 2009 season.”
The question is, which hand is he holding it in? The picture is ambiguous.
"the hardest decision to make is to do nothing; there is a terrible temptation to interfere." -gen patton
finger sprain for Wainer
welley and pineiro coming back? yes, that’s what the site said anyway
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 10, 2008 1:30 AM EDT reply actions
The medical front has one wondering if
Dr. Jack Kavorkian has been added to Cards’ staff. Ten pitchers on the DL. Think of this rotation in its prime: Carp, Mulder, Wainwright, Wellemeyer and Pinero. Backed up in the pen with Kinney and Izzy. Sigh. That’s what happens when Dr. Jack is paroled. . .
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