the market for pitchers II: relievers
by lboros on Jun 30, 2008 9:27 AM EDT
206 comments
with his win on saturday, mitchell boggs became the cardinals’ fourth rookie starting pitcher in this decade to win his first 3 decisions. free drinks on the house if you can name the 3 rookies who preceded boggs in this feat.
sat’s game was the first time boggs looked effective, in my estimation --- only gave up 2 or 3 well-hit balls all night while inducing 7 swinging strikes. he earned at least one more start w/ his performance, holding at bay (for the time being) the nightmarish prospect of a start by mark mulder. exactly what is mulder's role on this team? unless i’m mistaken, he hasn’t even warmed up yet --- and the cardinals have so much confidence in him that they are planning to add a 13th pitcher to the roster today because (in la russa’s words) they "need innings" . . . . which, rather obviously, they don’t trust mulder to supply. it does seem as if the bullpen is chronically weary lately, and i wondered if their load has increased significantly since wainwright left the rotation --- there has been a spate of short starts this month (including the one in which wainwright got injured). but that turns out not to be the case --- in april/may the bullpen averaged 9 outs a game, and in june they’re averaging 10 outs a game; that one extra out shouldn’t make that big a difference, should it? here are the relievers’ stats for this month:
| G | IP | H | BB | SO | HR | ERA | |||
| springer | 14 | 11 | 3 | 3 | 10 | 0 | 0.82 | ||
| izzy | 7 | 10.1 | 10 | 4 | 9 | 0 | 1.74 | ||
| mcclellan | 13 | 16 | 19 | 1 | 16 | 3 | 3.38 | ||
| franklin | 13 | 13 | 18 | 5 | 10 | 2 | 4.15 | ||
| perez | 11 | 12 | 13 | 11 | 11 | 1 | 6.00 | ||
| the lefties | --- | 12.1 | 19 | 17 | 7 | 1 | 9.49 | ||
| worrell / parisi | --- | 6.1 | 11 | 7 | 4 | 2 | 11.37 |
that one extra out per game, by and large, has been assigned to worrell or parisi; they haven’t done much w/ the opportunity. the left-handers have been putrid, as has been well documented by now, and chris perez’s control problems have started to rear their ugly head, but the key relievers have done their jobs by and large --- even franklin, who has 6 saves this month in 8 tries. in other words, he has been 1 game worse than an all-star closer would be; given that he’s only an emergency fill-in, i can live w/ that. mcclellan's k/bb ratio for the month (16 k, 1 bb) suggests he will continue to thrive.
there has been much discussion in the comment threads about trading for a lefty relief pitcher, and no doubt the cardinals are looking for one. but it won’t be cheap to get anybody good. i took a look at retrosheet’s transaction log for 2007 to see what a halfway decent middle relief pitcher cost on last year’s midseason trade market; teams don’t just give those guys away. to get two months of scott linebrink last year, milwaukee had to part with 3 prospects, including one of their best minor-league pitchers, a BA top 100 prospect named will inman; they also coughed up joe thatcher, who was brilliant in the minors and posted a 1.29 era for san diego last year after the trade, and a starting pitcher named steve garrison, who’s at double A this year with pretty decent numbers. the rough equivalents to those three prospects in stl’s current organization might be jaime garcia, jason motte, and brad furnish.
another good setup man, dan wheeler, fetched ty wigginton in a straight-up deal; wigginton’s roughly analogous to rick ankiel as a hitter. scott proctor went straight up for wilson betemit, who also resembles ankiel with the bat. and eric gagne, like linebrink, required three prospects on a two-month rental: the red sox had to give up kason gabbard (roughly analogous to the cards’ mitch boggs), former first-rounder dave murphy (whom i’d liken to joe mather), and the real prize of the trade, a high-ceilinged A ball prospect named engel beltre --- one of kevin goldstein’s top 100 prospects, and someone for whom the cardinals don’t really have an analog.
those are prohibitive prices --- but it’s what the cards can expect to pay if they go after an elite relief pitcher like brian fuentes or damaso marte. which probably explains why we don’t hear much about the cards’ pursuing such a trade.
one new option for an internal solution to help out the bullpen is chris carpenter, who who might work in relief for the cardinals when his rehab is completed. that helps explain why the team is seeking starting pitchers on the trade market --- they are no longer counting on carp to shore up the rotation down the stretch. mulder and clement are also no longer options in that regard, and wainwright to my knowledge still hasn’t thrown a baseball as of today, june 30; anybody really think he will be back on a big-league mound by august 1, which is 32 days from now? . . . . . we’re probably looking at mid-august or later for adam’s return. until then, we’re stuck with a trio of #4-type starters (pineiro, lohse, looper), a power pitcher with a balky elbow (wellemeyer), and a rookie with #3 starter upside (boggs); if anybody goes down or loses effectiveness, the remaining options are reyes, thompson, and the triple A corps. in their last two rotation cycles, the cards have only received 2 quality starts; the starters have hung in there admirably for 3 weeks w/out their ace, but things could fall apart in a hurry. we might debate whether the cards are better served to trade for a starter or to promote from within, but one way or another reinforcements will almost surely be necessary --- and given tony / dave’s predilections, it’s not surprising that they are looking for a veteran to help lead them through the 2nd half.
items:
- 2 of the cards’ minor-league starting pitchers will be at the Futures Game, jess todd for the u.s. team and jaime garcia for the international team. those are both luhnow draftees . . . . a 3d luhnow selection, bryan anderson, will make his 2d consecutive appearance at the game.
- the riverfront times had an article last week about brian barton and rocket science.
- jason larue leads the cardinals in batting this month at .350 (in 40 at-bats); slugging, at .650; and in ops, at 1.045 (pujols is second at 1.028). cardinal catchers now have a cumulative .744 ops for the season, well above average for the position (.720) and better than the overall nl avg for all players (.736) . . . . their basic stats are .285 avg, .355 obp, .388 slugging, w/ 6 homers and 35 rbi.
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3 rookies...
jason simontacchi, bud smith, mike crudale
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on Jun 30, 2008 9:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
correct on the 1st two
wrong on crudale
by lboros on Jun 30, 2008 9:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
crudale
went 3-0 in ‘02 as a rookie
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on Jun 30, 2008 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lboros didn't indicate rookie starters, just rookies
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on Jun 30, 2008 10:04 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Might wanna re-read what lboros said above.
with his win on saturday, mitchell boggs became the cardinals’ fourth rookie starting pitcher
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 30, 2008 10:05 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i did
“free drinks on the house if you can name the 3 rookies who preceded boggs in this feat.”
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on Jun 30, 2008 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnd
i’m an idiot.
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on Jun 30, 2008 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no, i did indicate starting pitchers
read the first sentence of the post again - “the cardinals’ fourth rookie starting pitcher in this decade” . . .
by lboros on Jun 30, 2008 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gahhhhhhhhhh
i didn’t get enough sleep for this
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on Jun 30, 2008 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, you did get 2 of the 3
for what it’s worth, only simontaachi extended his mark to 4-0 (he eventually went 5-0 before losing a game).
by lboros on Jun 30, 2008 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i wonder
if crudale was the only other rookie to do it.
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on Jun 30, 2008 10:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm a nerd so i looked it up
there were two more cardinal rookies to win their first three decisions in the 2000s, and they’re an interesting pair:
1) brad thompson, 2005 – he was 4-0 that particular season and won his first decision in ‘06.
2) kelvin jimenez, 2007 – 3-0 despite a 7.50 ERA. his perfect record is still intact despite his career ERA increasing to 7.63 this season.
and finally, chris perez has a chance to join the group if his next decision is in the win column. let’s hope he does, and that this group remains the only one that contains perez and worrell.
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on Jun 30, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
worrell, jimenez
whatever
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on Jun 30, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Travis Smith
in 2002 also counts. I believe that was his rookie year.
by enoscountry on Jun 30, 2008 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2002
ironic that all three of the others in this topic debuted in 2002. kind of sums up that season in a nutshell.
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on Jun 30, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
2002 was a damn fine season though
until the NLCS anyway. I hope this team gets to 97 wins
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 30, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
now you’re just making people up.
Well who the hell can see forever?
by Alxfritz on Jun 30, 2008 10:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ugh
no wonder i couldn’t think of travis smith, i tried very hard to forget him.
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on Jun 30, 2008 10:14 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can have my theoretical free drinks
if they are only theoretical internet drinks.
by enoscountry on Jun 30, 2008 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So....
we’re going to add a 13th pitcher, because they don’t trust Mulder to even pitch out of the pen, yet he takes up a valuable space on the roster, essentially forcing us to play with 24 men…hmmmm.
Well, point well taken about needing reinforcements sooner or later…they are going to have to fish or cut bait with Mulder at some point because there are too many important games left on the schedule (4 series left with the Cubs, two each with the Phils and D-Backs, at least two with the Brewers. etc)to have players on the team you have little or no confidence in.
by tbell61 on Jun 30, 2008 9:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why not just send him to memphis?
if someone takes him off of waivers, that’s $10M for us. If not, then he at least gets to work his ineffectiveness out.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jun 30, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I like the sound of this, but he can refuse the assignment if he wants to, correct?
by mikedallas45 on Jun 30, 2008 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, and at which point he becomes a FA
and I believe we’re still on the hook for the difference between his current salary and whatever he signs for with another team.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jun 30, 2008 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great news about "Cowboy" Jason LaRue
Rotoworld writer noted that he’s been an adequate sub for “Jose” Molina.
If his hitting trend continues, does this mean that Jason is back of ‘09 and we won’t see B Anderson?
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by gocards62 on Jun 30, 2008 9:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Boris Anderson?
Or maybe we can pick up Mick Piazza.
by sdrone on Jun 30, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But what do we do when Luis Pujols is ready to play the field again?
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jun 30, 2008 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if the hitting trend continues
he’ll likely get a full-time job with another club.
If not, then yeah, he’d be a great guy to bring back.
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jun 30, 2008 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We keep
talking about how Anderson would make a great 60/40 split with Yadi, but seeing how LaRue started to find a bat when Yadi got hurt, maybe he’ll represent that better bat if we give him a stronger split for the rest of the year.
And we can protect Yadi a little while doing so.
70/30 would be ok with me and LaRue. Enough to keep the bat warm and keep Yadi rested, not enough to zap what Yadi has done this year.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Plus, we're not the only teams in need of relief help
I was at Kauffman (sp?) on Saturday and Sunday, and Sunday we had amazing seats right behind home plate. Around the 6th inning or so, scouts started moving their way down and I saw at least 3 scouts looking at relief pitching. One was from Tampa Bay, don’t know who the others were.
Also, Mozeliak was about 10 feet to my left. Just sitting casually, watching the game, keeping score, chatting with fans around him, really seeming to enjoy the beautiful day. Getting paid. At work. Working.
Asshole.
by farley503 on Jun 30, 2008 9:52 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
TB is just prepping for the WS
Yes, I’m knocking on wood now
by baw on Jun 30, 2008 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Todd with a nice game yesterday.....
8 innings of 2 hit, 1 walk, 10 K, shutout ball.
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 30, 2008 9:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
As for the relievers.....
I don’t think, as a unit, what we have is THAT bad. I think the addition of maybe one LOOGY would be all we’d need. Any “slumps” you see out of the pen from here on are likely going to be due to overuse, due to the SP’s not getting it done.
Wainright going down really hurt the pen in my estimation.
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 30, 2008 10:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
catchers' hitting
lboros pointed out that the cardinal catchers have posted a .744 OPS so far in ‘08… which is very anti-la russa, when catchers are meant to call the game, control the basepaths, and make lots of outs at the plate while batting primarily 8th. check out the catchers’ slash stats during the ladunc era:
1996 – .268/.306/.402 – .708
1997 – .237/.294/.365 – .659
1998 – .233/.312/.350 – .662
1999 – .230/.285/.335 – .620
2000 – .260/.319/.386 – .705
2001 – .229/.286/.334 – .620
2002 – .248/.314/.347 – .662
2003 – .245/.308/.345 – .653
2004 – .252/.301/.343 – .645
2005 – .233/.278/.326 – .605
2006 – .221/.277/.328 – .605
2007 – .256/.311/.347 – .657
2008 – .285/.355/.388 – .744
cardinal catchers have posted by far the best numbers of the la russa era in AVG and OBP, and save for the pop of the ‘96 backstops, when pags posted his career-high SLG%, they’d be #1 in that category as well.
here’s to yadi and pornstache continuing to break the mold.
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on Jun 30, 2008 10:03 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Catchers that can hit
If I recall correctly, the last catcher we had that was an above average hitter in cosecutive years was Darryl Porter in ‘82-83. LaRussa didn’t start the trend of judy hittin’ catchers, but it has continued.
The St. Louis Cardinals- 11 time World Champions!
by Zubin on Jun 30, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Larussa's catchers
They all have something in common: For the most part, they are all (to steal a Bill Simmonsism) “glue guys”—good defensively, good leaders, respectable offensive skills (i.e. take good AB’s, can lay down a sac bunt or hit a sac fly, make productive outs), and all around good teammates and leaders on the field. Here’s the backstops that Tony has had during his coaching career:
CWS (1980) – Bruce Kimm
CWS (1981-1986) – Carlton Fisk
OAK (1987-1995) – Terry Steinbach
STL (1996) – Tom Pagnozzi
STL (1997) – Mike Difelice/Pagnozzi
STL (1998) – Eli Marrero/Pagnozzi
STL (1999) – Eli Marrero
STL (2000-2004) – Mike Matheny
STL (2005-Pres.) – Yadier Molina
Fisk and Steinbach were very good with the bat, but they were also excellent backstops and great team leaders. Marrero was displaced by Matheny because of his shortcomings behind the plate, but was a valuable utility man and a good teammate on those early 2000 teams before he was traded.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 30, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The thing about it is.
And I know you weren’t suggesting otherwise. LaRussa still looks at Defense when choosing a catcher and a backup. Yadi may be the best defensive catcher playing. And Larue isn’t have bad either. Yadi’s offensive numbers have continued to climb through his career. LaRue; I suspect; benefited a lot from Yadi hitting the DL. The extra playing time looks to have helped him get locked in. Which makes me think that he might start to decline again.
by Evilfrog on Jun 30, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the difference i see between larue and previous cardinal backup Cs is that he actually has some secondary skills at the plate – he still boasts a career ISO of .172 and walk rate of almost 8%. eat your hearts out, gary bennett and einar diaz.
the last cardinal to log innings at C to slug .400 in any season was eli marerro in 2001. yeesh.
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on Jun 30, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mulder has warmed up twice
during the late innings (once in Detroit once in KC). At least according to Rooney and Shannon.
I’m thinking Mulder is our blowout innings eater reliever. And I really think that’s good use of him.
by enoscountry on Jun 30, 2008 10:15 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have Mulder
on my Diamond Mind Baseball Cardinal team, and that is exactly the role I have him in…he only appears if there is a blowout, one way or the other.
by tbell61 on Jun 30, 2008 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
initially that might make sense
You want to bring him in in a low-leverage situation. If he succeeds, you can ratchet that up a notch next time. I don’t think he’s a waste of a bullpen slot…yet. Let’s see what he does before we declare him to be useless. Maybe he’ll surprise some people.
In the back of my mind, however, is that his call-up is very similar to what happened with A. Reyes earlier. Is this possibly another Mo versus LaDuncan situation?
by Red in Chicago on Jun 30, 2008 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Red......I was kind of thinking that myself.
Maybe it’s just me, but I am sometimes baffled by the roster moves. Whatever.
As far as Mulder goes, I guess they have to know what they might be able to get from him this year…...the only way to find out is to get him into a game—several games. On some level, I’m looking forward to it; on others, it scares the beejeebus out of me…....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jun 30, 2008 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wouldn't want to be in his shoes
imagine what it will be like for him to finally take the mound….. made a boatload of money, haven’t pitched for over a year in front of the home crowd, knowing some are expecting you to fail (some in the stands, a few in the clubhouse), new arm slot, pitches are slowing down, pressure, pressure, pressure….. and all he has to do is throw to the glove….. Good Luck!
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 30, 2008 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention expectations were always too high......
Because the majority of pitchers that have shoulder surgery don’t return anything like their former self. And Mulder has had two of them in two years. Maybe he makes it back…......but the odds are against him. Still, I am curious…....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jun 30, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
At this point
are we not expecting him to be dismal? The reports of his pitching have either been dreadful or decent at best. My expectations are very low…. and normally I’m a half glass full kind of guy. Hoping I’m wrong.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 30, 2008 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I said long ago
I am ready to turn the page on Mulder…okay, you made a bad trade and you followed it up with an equally bad FA contract…this happens to every team, and the Cardinals, by and large, have a pretty good track record on both trades and free agent signings…personally, I give them a pass on this…now, time to forget about it and move on.
by tbell61 on Jun 30, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No I don't think he will be dismal
I think he will be inconsistent. Which is why he should come out for a couple of innings and see how it goes. Each time will be a bit of an adventure. But Mark Mulder has got to be an improvement over Randy Flores or Mike Parisi.
by Red in Chicago on Jun 30, 2008 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Expectations
I agree that the expectations were too high with us wanting him back. But at the same time, you can’t blame the fans for wanting something for the investment Jock made on him, even if it is after major surgery.
Go Crazy Folks, Go Crazy!!!
by joshbaz12 on Jun 30, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
disagree
fans have to adjust their expectations. Sure we can HOPE for the best, but we can’t expect him to Ace material, or even #2 material right out of the gate. Is it frustrating paying him millions to rehab? Sure, but that doesn’t mean that he should be expected to make up for 2 years of injury in half a season or less. I suspect that the first walk given up or the first run scored off him will elicit a few boos from the hometown ‘faithful’ – this should not happen. And I hope it doesn’t, but it seems there is a ton of frustration with the guy that really isn’t his fault. Injuries happen.
by cdb on Jun 30, 2008 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if there are boos
they should not be aimed at mulder, but rather at the people who decided it’s a good idea to put mulder out there. it’s rather apparent from his AAA outings that he has a very high likelihood of total ineffectiveness - and is a far worse bet than others who are available. i’m not one who boos, but the decision to put mulder on a big-league mound seems boo-worthy.
by lboros on Jun 30, 2008 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no argument
but unfortunately a boo is a boo. If fans were able to direct them at management – no problem.
by cdb on Jun 30, 2008 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This gave me a great idea
VEB Day at Busch!
The Cardinals should host a home game where the only people allowed to attend are VEB registered users. It would be interesting to see where the boos go, what gets applauded, etc. —plus, the individual shouts would be quite audible, since there definitely aren’t 40,000 of us!
by mojowo11 on Jun 30, 2008 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not fair, I understand
I realize that it isn’t fair and that he shouldn’t be booed. It’s gonna happen though. Just as I stated people want a return for the contract. I guess what I’m saying is that it’s even more frustrating that Mo is trying to do the same thing that we want in getting a return on the invesment. Call a spade a spade and release him keep him in AAA. His outings didn’t warrant the call up even with the 30 day rehab or whatever it is, there are ways around that verbage.
Go Crazy Folks, Go Crazy!!!
by joshbaz12 on Jun 30, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, go ahead. Tell everyone I can't spell.....Thanks a lot
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jun 30, 2008 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm beginning to wonder if Mulder is 'break in case of emergency'
and if not, they are still planning on starting him this week. After Pineiro got shelled and Looper had zero control, I wonder if they weren’t at least a little concerned that one of them would miss a start.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 30, 2008 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I'm afraid of...
is that Mulder will “break” (again!) in case of emergency….
I wanna see what he’s got (if anything), but I fear the answer will be “not much!”
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on Jun 30, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Roster moves today?
Is Stavinoha on his way back to Memphis? Who will be the 13 pitcher: Worrell, Motte, Garcia, A Rey, Puppy Kicker?
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by gocards62 on Jun 30, 2008 11:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My vote is for Thompson
unless they’re hell bent on a lefty.
by Tackle Box on Jun 30, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Does anybody now how many times puppy kicker has been brought up and sent down?
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jun 30, 2008 11:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
not as many as I thought, but still quite a few
called up 5/8/05 remained with the team until 7/3/06.
recalled 8/9/06 optioned back 8/15/06
recalled 9/1/06 optioned 8/24/07
recalled 9/4/07 opt 4/23/08 but then added to dl
returned dl 6/19/08 optioned 6/20/08
and now sounds like he will be recalled today 6/30/08
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jun 30, 2008 1:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not the volume
It’s the amount of time over which he’s been bouncing up and down. It’s been three complete seasons now and he just can’t seem to stick.
by mojowo11 on Jun 30, 2008 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
especially when you see how he dominated in the minors prior to 2005
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jun 30, 2008 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't totally agree with that..
as he spent pretty much the entire 2007 season with the big club. And also had a more than season long stint from May of 2005 to July of 2006.
Injury and to a lesser extent lack of effectiveness have kept him off the team this season.
by cardzfanbub on Jun 30, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh boy
Weren’t we pretty close to DFA’ing him?
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
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by Mr Redbird on Jun 30, 2008 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt they'll dfa him
Probably just put him back on the DL
by Tackle Box on Jun 30, 2008 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's already pulled over, he can't pull over any farther
isn’t clement already on the DL?
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on Jun 30, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm freaking out man
you are freaking out….man
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jun 30, 2008 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
note to self
if jason larue offers to give a “mustache ride” just say no.
by mattybobo on Jun 30, 2008 2:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"we’re stuck with a trio of #4-type starters (pineiro, lohse, looper), "
Lohse & Looper not to mention Wellemeyer could challenge for the 2 or 3 spot on a lot of teams. I know what you meant but I still think these guys don’t get enough credt.
For what it’s worth Piniero doesn’t have the wins the other 3 have but he has pitched pretty well. He looked real good in Boston.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on Jun 30, 2008 12:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Joel
has looked above average in a lot of starts, but he’s also been shafted by lethargic offenses and inherited runners scoring late too.
People should really hope that Looper and Lohse does well the rest of the year, because if they put up solid numbers as they have the first half then they could very well be Type A free agents at the end of the year. ESB doesn’t look at groundout percentages, or missed bat percentages as far as I know :)
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’ll agree with the takes on lohse, welly, and piniero, but looper would not challenge for #2 or #3 spots on very many teams. he is what he is, a slightly-below-average innings eater.
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on Jun 30, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Undervalued?
It might not take three prospects to get us a lefty. Here’s what Tracy Ringolsby of The Rocky Mountain News had to say.
* LHP Brian Fuentes. A free agent at season’s end. The Rockies would want two quality prospects, but they won’t deal him until Manny Corpas can return to the closer role or they concede the division and wild card.
I wonder what two prospects we would part with that they would take?
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Jun 30, 2008 12:52 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If we give up 2-3 good prospects for a LOOGY rental...
Before trying out Jaime Garcia in the role first, then I’m going to burn Busch III to the ground.
by mikedallas45 on Jun 30, 2008 1:31 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I'll bring the matches and
cool whip :) (temp insanity defense!)
We have a couple of righty bullpen guys with massive LH splits, we have Garcia churning, there’s no reason to trade prospects for a LOOGY IMO.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
garcia
im pretty sure he dominates right handers, while lefties hit pretty well against him. i thought i saw a split indicating this a couple of weeks ago
by Glowsticks on Jun 30, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You did, but it does carry a small sample size warning.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we actually found 2006 and 2007 splits
still not a lot to work with, but at least they aren’t terrible
I still go by the logic that he wouldn’t be such a fast riser if he couldn’t get out lefties.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 30, 2008 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
terroristic threat
please remain where you are. the authorities have been called.
I'd rather my sister be a prostitute than my brother a Cub fan.
by _pistol_ on Jun 30, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Office Space
“And I said, I don’t care if they lay me off either, because I told, I told Bill that if they move my desk one more time, then, then I’m, I’m quitting, I’m going to quit. And, and I told Don, too, because they’ve moved my desk four times already this year, and I used to be over by the window, and I could see the squirrels, and they were married, but then, they switched from the Swingline to the Boston stapler, but I kept my Swingline stapler because it didn’t bind up as much, and I kept the Swingline stapler and it’s not okay because if they take my stapler then I’ll set the building on fire …”
That said, the Cubs do deserve my pity, but never my support.
by Solanus on Jun 30, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ankiel's RBI's...or lack of
Just looked at Ankiel’s stats and saw where he only had 38 rbis but has 15 HRs. That seems like a really low rbi total for a guy with that many HRs and for a clean-up hitter to boot. Seems to me that Rick’s big weakness is hitting with runners on…and most of those HRs must have been of the solo variety. Hope his rbi total goes up soon since he is our clean-up hitter most of the time…...just an observation.
by KYCards on Jun 30, 2008 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Chris Duncan
in 2006 had 22 homeruns and 43 RBIs.
He was also very terrible with the bases loaded.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 30, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not just RA, it's a team thing.
there has been more HR’s with runners on lately…. but this discussion has been going on for a few weeks now.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 30, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is this a fault of McRae?
I hate to keep jumping on Hal all of the time…but Ankiel & others have been clearly doing something wrong when runners are on. Their hitting approach must not be right in these situations. I haven’t been able to watch many games this year (I listen to Shannon/Rooney via MLB audio) so I’m not sure what their approach has been with runners on…not getting to watch…has anyone seen something that stands out when guys like Ankiel bat with runners on?
by KYCards on Jun 30, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ank swings at the first pitch most of the time
It seems like he almost always has an 0-2 count
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jun 30, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
first pitch
his OPS is over 1 when swining on the first pitch. When he gets behind in the count, his OPS is below 0.6. He also rakes when he is ahead in the count. Pitchers know that they need to get ahead in the count, so the first pitch is likely to be something he can hit – so he does. I don’t think the first pitch swinging is the answer to why he doesn’t hit well with RISP.
by cdb on Jun 30, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps just overly aggressive w/ risp
Looks like he batted .355 in april with risp so hopefully he’ll get back to that
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jun 30, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
to clarify this
his ops is over 1 when he puts the first pitch in play - but that doesn’t count the at-bats where he swings at the first pitch and misses, or fouls the first pitch off.
by lboros on Jun 30, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and on that note
Ank’s OPS is 1.049 on balls he hits in fair territory vs. .959 for first pitch swings (and hits in fair territory) – so no difference.
by enoscountry on Jun 30, 2008 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That doesn't excuse him taking absurd blind home run swings on 0-0
which I’ve seen him do quite a bit, particularly in close and late situations. On one level, dong some of that is pat of his game, but if the bases are loaded with one out in a one run game, just put the damn ball in play, I say.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jun 30, 2008 3:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe
but he needs to have better focus on 3-0
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
by sportsman on Jun 30, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
.667/.923/1.000/1.923 says otherwise
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
but the BA wasn’t the point of the line, it’s across 13 PA and he’s been involved swinging three times – 2 of which were successful. Hardly worth condemning his focus if you ask me
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't check the numbers
it was just that .667 that screamed out to me. Like a .500 or 1.000.
by Tackle Box on Jun 30, 2008 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
some numbers for you to much on
Ank has 291 PA this year.
He’s swing and connected on 34 of those with a BA of .333 and an OPS of .959
The rest of his PA he’s been at 1-0 almost equal to the times he’s been at 0-1.
His numbers do drop when he’s at 0-1, but I’m not sure of the league average, but I would assume that most in the league do. He’s only had 53ish at bats when he’s 0-2, so I couldn’t say all of the time.
And for those who gripe about him 3-0 swinging…
.667/.923/1.000/1.923 is his numbers when he does. In my book he can swing at 3-0 any time he wants to until those bottom out.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Late and Close
.095/.174/.167/.341 with a babip of .130, some could say he’s been quite unlucky in those situations.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 2:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Is there a stat like batting average on line drives in play?
Because it seems like in alot of late and close games he hits cans of corn to the outfield or even the infield. So while his BABIP is only .130, if you compare it to say his line drive rate, what should it really be?
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jun 30, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure this relates
to what you’re saying HL, but when RA hits Line Drives this year, his BA is like .800….. pretty incredible.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 30, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sorry Mr Redbird
I could have sworn I saw Hardcore Legend post above.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 30, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll let it slide......this time......
I guess that just goes to show your approach should be line drives EVERY TIME
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jun 30, 2008 3:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks
“Best swing on your pitch” is the motto I hear from Pujols, yet from some other Cards batters, that is not even close to what I’m seeing.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 30, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Like Kennedy's uppercut to the max
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jun 30, 2008 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
“Tiger Woods Ya’ll”
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fangraphs wrote once that
league average BA on line drives is .730, FWIW.
by Phizzle on Jun 30, 2008 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you can get “late and close”, you can get ld%, but I don’t think you can get both working together anywhere (as far as I know). It would be a great stat to see though.
That being said I did try to qualify it as “some” as he has a massive amount of strikeouts for those situations, so it sums up more as a pressure result than it does as a bad luck on balls hit for me.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's pretty much what I was getting at
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jun 30, 2008 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
From what I've seen
This team does quite well hitting this year. Two out RBI’s have been happening quite alot this year, does McRae get credit for this? Each batter goes up there with a plan (at least that’s what I’m told) and how they execute it is totally up to them and there is only so much McRae can do….. so no, I don’t blame him at all. Give RA some time, this is only his second season being a real batter who is centerfielder as oppose to a pitcher turned outfielder looking for his place in the show. I think he can be as streaky as Edmonds. Pujols has 12 solo HR’s, do we object to that? nope.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 30, 2008 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't trying to jump on Ankiel
was just a little suprised with his low rbi total with the amount of hrs he has and where he is in the batting order. Not sure he should be our clean-up hitter with his lack of rbis…but that’s just me. Glaus would be a better option with his higher rbi totals..but Glaus doesn’t prefer to being the clean-up hitter..as he has said and he didn’t perform that good in the 4th spot either. But I do think Hal or someone should work with Rick to be a little more patient at the plate when runners are on….maybe he has?
by KYCards on Jun 30, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rest Luddy and slot him back at 4.
Rick only has a large portion at 4 because Albert got hurt and Luddy went to 3, hopefully the lineup between those two will go back at some point.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
for all you stat masters
do we know how many rbi’s have been produced in the #4spot? #5 spot?
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jun 30, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Teach a man to fish..
baseball-reference: if you’re on your team page click on the bat splits for the team.
link
4 & 5 are pretty close across the board with 5 having 2 more RBI and 50 points higher in OPS
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
thanks AE
I just found baseball-ref in last couple days and am only now learning how to use it . slightly.
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jun 30, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I seen that on another thread
just thought I’d throw some help rather than just answer.
Mastering baseball-reference will go a long way to answering most questions, fangraphs tends to fill out the rest of the bigger ones.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
looks like most of our HR this season are first pitch
if I’m reading it right it looks like 24hr on 1st pitch
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jun 30, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One thing I noticed
when using baseball-reference is that Chris Duncan did a hell of a lot better batting 2nd rather than batting 6th in the order. Makes me wonder why Tony insisted on keeping Chris in the 6th spot for all of those games against the AL last week. If Duncan is going to play he should be kept in the 2nd spot in the order as much as possible.
by KYCards on Jun 30, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we didn't have pujols against the AL
as protection, whatever you call it, that makes the #2 spot a fastball heaven.
Plus now we have Ank, Lud, and others who equally benefit from the spot whereas last year Duncan was the young hitter who played the most.
by enoscountry on Jun 30, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What's that directv commercial say?
90% of all statistics can be made to say what you want 50% of the time
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jun 30, 2008 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love that commercial
but i hope that doesn’t mean you aren’t a stats man.
This place has got to drive non-statheads nuts!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 30, 2008 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not really
It used to until I educated myself a little bit. Not that I consider myself a stat head now (or ever will), just one who can appreciate stats (sabr style) a little better and feel I can make a more educated assessment. I’ll always trust my eyes and as a high school baseball coach, that’s pretty much what I’ve got (this past year we used obp and contact rates a lot more than before). Also, I pride myself on understanding situational baseball and think that is definately an area “stat heads” overlook much too often.
In other words, I think I’m becoming what many stat heads fear. An old style view with an understanding of statistics to make an informed assesment. Which I think is where this is all going to ultimately go. The game will never be stat dominated at the development and scouting level. You still need people who can look at a player and from an educated opinion.
by Tackle Box on Jun 30, 2008 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NON-Stathead might have been the wrong term
I meant someone who absolutely despises the use of stats.
I am with you TB, it does have to be evened out. I just don’t like it when people refuse to believe what stats tell them
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 30, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agree
better is to have rick bat 3rd and albert 4th. pitcher 8 or 9 doesn’t matter. we got more punch and judies than we know what to do with and stacking them at the bottom surrounding the pitcher seems less effective to me. and we ought to put them in front of albert and rick for maximum effectiveness
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
by sportsman on Jun 30, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Its seems McRay's
solution for Duncan is to move him off the plate even farther….....Seems have produced a few flairs to left, some modest ground balls up the middle…......Great…...... the good thing is he has to stay closed longer to even reach and cover his obvious weakness…....but who am I to complain. Now Ludwick, opening up even farther to “threaten to trap attacks on his hands has been brilliant…....just look at his production….......truly amazing…..........as long as Ankiel is expected to produce only power, he will hit rookies and mistakes, nothing more….. a true crime against a promising player. Mentally, he offers at two pitches in the dirt yesterday with a 3-1 and 3-2 two count, when it seemed apparent they were trying to pitch around him, to load the bases!
He is becoming isolated from good team baseball with unrealistic expectations.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jun 30, 2008 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
sure looks that way
uncle scot advising this approach?
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
by sportsman on Jun 30, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Holy crap
i think I agree with you on most of that.
Is the world coming to an end?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 30, 2008 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's why i only read half of it.
too much was making sense.
jk.
by Tackle Box on Jun 30, 2008 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was hoping it wasn't just me
WHEW
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 30, 2008 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LOOGY Rental
I am surprised at Llboros’ find that a “halfway decent middle relief pitcher” costed so much last year. How about finding someone not as good as fuentes and marte but better than Flores? I guess I could do the work at retrosheet and find out, but after I stopped planning fantasy baseball, I am not as familiar with player names, especially with relievers’.
It was good to see Luddy and Dunc get a few hits, walks, rbi’s last night. Things are comin’ around, I hope. I still see too much movement on Dunc during at bats? Is it just me, or do others also see that?
Anyone else impressed with BRyan’s arm? I think for the past two games he has nailed someone on a relay throw. Let’s hope he continues to focus on baseball and not stand-up comdy/impressions.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Jun 30, 2008 1:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ryan's recent relay throws
good feet, quick release, on target…and, best of all, doesn’t look like he’s heaving a softball. It’s not like he has Shawon Dunston’s arm, but between Ryan & Izturis, man what an improvement over what we were used to seeing!
(Sorry for the excitement. I really like watching good defense.)
by random on Jun 30, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wish some of our pitchers
had Dunston’s arm
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 30, 2008 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And his bat
Dude was a flat out hitter.
by Tackle Box on Jun 30, 2008 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ank risp
during may with RISP he had 17AB, ank batted .120 / 0HR/ 5rbi
in june risp he had 16ab, and batted .176/1hr/ 6rbi
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jun 30, 2008 2:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
i believe it
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
by sportsman on Jun 30, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So I'm seeing a whip of just under 3 for the lefties there...
And I am not surprised by it, but it still made me fall out of my chair. I’m sure it will get better, but that’s not the point. Even if they shaved those June results in half, they’re still a huge liabilty. It will get better I am sure, but likely not enough to change the fact they can’t be run out there the whole season.
Count me as one that thinks it is a good idea to give Garcia a couple months out of the pen. Partly because of the huge need. Mostly because he finished with arm issues last year and I’d like to reduce the workload for him this year.
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 30, 2008 3:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pesonally I've never liked the guy
but I was watching ESPN and Skip Bayless just picked STL to win the NL Central. Gave all the credit for our start to TLR and made an argument for him being the front runner for manager of the year. Seems like they may finally be admitting that the Cardinals might be off to a little more than a “hot start”
He also said that the Mets had no shot at the playoffs because of Jose Reyes.
by MotherTruckinSteve on Jun 30, 2008 3:23 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He just says things to stir shit up
He doesn’t ever make any valid points other than to try to generate arguments. If there were a troll in mass media, it would be him. He is my least favorite “pundit” and I make it a point to change the channel when he (and Stephen A. Smith) comes on, just in case it dents the ratings a fraction of a point.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jun 30, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
completely agree
but my remote was out of arms reach, so I subjected myself to listening to him as background fodder.
by MotherTruckinSteve on Jun 30, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hate to admit it
but i actually enjoy bayless’ rants. he’s a gifted arguer, even if he is just stirring the pot. clever guy in a drawer full of dull knives. i approve.
by baw on Jun 30, 2008 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Gifted Arguer"
Then let him debate worthless topics on “Root of all Evil” or become and ambulance chaser.
Oh wait, he’d actually have to use facts instead of his own opinion all the time.
He’s a horrible person to debate, because even when someone proves him wrong he’s still right. Never mind that he made it to the big-time by being a guy who called Troy Aikman “gay” in innumerable columns when he was a columnist in Dallas. He’s everything that’s wrong with mass media today, and how he still has a job when he brings nothing to the table I have no idea.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 30, 2008 3:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
this all damning
if you take sports or sports commentary seriously. i flip on morning pizza to hear skip make some outlandish argument sound like it’s the most obvious thing in the world. i’m sure buzz bissinger hates him, too, even though he’s a “real journalist.”
he beats wilbon or mariotti or any number of hacks who think their shit don’t stink. IMO, skip knows he’s full of it and he uses it to make a living.
by baw on Jun 30, 2008 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will agree that Mariotti sucks
But people who aren’t drunk and just yell to make their point have a negative impact on me
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jun 30, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow, that is awesome
drum up that reyes-hate, ESPN… maybe he can become the next Rolen.
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jun 30, 2008 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I thought was funny..or sad
was that a few nights ago on baseball tonight they were teasing some kind of “conversation” about the Cards/Cubs titanic struggle for the NL Central before a commerical break. I was excited because I thought maybe we could hear a few praises for our unexpected season…But I guess it was dropped so they could have another segment on Joba Chamberlain who had won his first game as a starter that night. Now mind you this was after they had already spent 7-8 minutes of the show already discussing the great Joba. Just had to laugh.
by KYCards on Jun 30, 2008 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm pretty sure everytime joba picks his nose it's on espn.com's front page
starting to get tiresome
by mattybobo on Jun 30, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah. On Baseball Tonight about a week ago.
They were talking about the All-Star game. And who managers thought were the 5 best starting pitchers from each league. And the guy announcing them(forget who it was.) Said with a straight face, “Surprisingly; Joba Chamberlin didn’t make the list.”
Surprisingly my ass. The guy has only had 1 good start. They were also surprised that Lincecum(sp?) was second. Really? That surprises you? Have you seen him pitch?
by Evilfrog on Jun 30, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, but no
Bayless picked the Cardinals to win the division before the season started. At the time it was worth viewing as something between insanity and idiocy. Thing is, like Monsieur Redbird said, he just says stuff like that to raise commotion, and he didn’t give a good reason for them winning the division back then, either. Now he’s just basking in his lucky pick. Can’t blame him, I guess.
by mojowo11 on Jun 30, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
old saying
a broken watch is still right twice a day
by mattybobo on Jun 30, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
lucky is right
he picked the Rays and White Sox to finish last, the Cubs to finish second to last, and had the Rockies running away with the NL West.
Lucky indeed….a sun shines on a dogs ass in one division pick in baseball I guess….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 30, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just like those guys who make preseason picks that predict that the entire NFL will
have a .575 winning percentage.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jun 30, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's because
They are throwing in a few games aginst CFL teams now!
by Evilfrog on Jun 30, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no
they just make their record predictions on a sub .500 loss % and then forget they need to throw a few games into the tie column for everything to balance out.
by MotherTruckinSteve on Jun 30, 2008 4:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was too
maybe not a good one though
by MotherTruckinSteve on Jun 30, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty sure most CFL teams would have beaten the Raiders the past couple of years
and I’m a Raiders fan!
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jun 30, 2008 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ouch
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
add to that
the fact that you get a lot of attention when you piss off one of the larger markets. Cubs aren’t a huge market, but they have a reasonable stronghold. So talking about them makes some sense to rile that market up.
It’s just like the rays get more attention because it pisses off the redsox and yankees MSM lovefested crowd. sadly it should be more because the rays are playing badass all around baseball and have figured out how to approach small market issues
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 4:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we were his prediction at the beginning of the year
for big surprise – that’s why he’s on our bandwagon.
by enoscountry on Jun 30, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Since 2000
Cards have a Winning Pct. in July of .584 and in Aug. of .597
IF they can continue that for this year, that will be 16 wins in each month (rounding up because I’m a optimist)
that will put them at 79-59 going into Sept. (I’ll count tonight’s game as a loss since that has been their M.O., losing first game of a series)
Possible?
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 30, 2008 4:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It's possible
But looking at how we’ve done in July and August the last eight years means basically nothing when talking about how we will do in July and August this year. Kind of a twist on the Gambler’s fallacy, if you will.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jun 30, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Point taken
I’m back to earth now. Oh well.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 30, 2008 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
two hours to game time
anybody seen a line-up yet?
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 30, 2008 5:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Did anybody get called up?
just got back and figured to see a move
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jun 30, 2008 5:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
looks like it was puppy kicker
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jun 30, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boggs #3 upside?
Pecota projects him to be below replacement level….
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/pecota/BOGGS19840215A.php
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on Jun 30, 2008 5:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
PECOTA is wrong.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jun 30, 2008 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Duncan is rumored to be in LF tonight
Bloop singles and walks get rewarded.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 30, 2008 5:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Here they are
Schumaker 9
Miles 4
Pujols 3
Ankiel 8
Glaus 5
Duncan 7
Molina 2
Lohse 1
Ryan 6
Reyes 6
Castillo 4
Wright 3
Beltran 8
Delgado 3
Church 9
Chavez 7
Schneider 2
Maine 1
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
by stltrav09 on Jun 30, 2008 5:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
thanks.....
Guess Ludwick needed another day off. So much for his chances in the ASG.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 30, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
his allstar dreams are over
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jun 30, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right
cause his absolute inability to get a hit over the past 2 1/2 weeks did nothing to destroy those chances.
by Tackle Box on Jun 30, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what the hell is a tadallion
that’s got to be the gayest nickname I’ve ever heard
"The two most important things in life: good friends and a strong bullpen." - Bob Gibson
by Bahamaredbird on Jun 30, 2008 6:06 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
P-D reporting Stavinoha down, Thompson up
Proud sponsor of the Official 2008 StL Cardinal theme song: "Beautiful Day" by U2
by gocards62 on Jun 30, 2008 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank God Chris is getting more at-bats
I was afraid we might use the more talented players once Pujols returned. I like that Chris needs 3 weeks worth of ABs to find his swing but the real 4th OF, Brian Barton , who actually can play defense and provide something with his bat can’t sniff 15 ABs during that time.
I’m sorry if this seems like a rant but I’m sick and tired of Chris Duncan ‘getting ABs’ to correct his swing at the major league level when we don’t extend the same courtesy to any other players his age. He has options, send him to Memphis to see if he can hit AAA pitching.
I defy anyone to prove to me why he has to ‘find it’ up here as opposed to down there and why he has to start 5 out of 7 days?
It’s bullshit and if it were any other player they wouldn’t be doing this. Hell, Adam Kennedy saw himself sent to the bench after sucking for 3 months. Yet, they just keep giving Chris more and more rope. I don’t like the nepotism calls but this smacks of it.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 30, 2008 6:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Duncan should sit
At the least he should change spots with Molina, especially aginast left handers.
Why must Molina hit in front of the pitcher?
by greenwichvillagecard on Jun 30, 2008 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Molina is generally a DP threat and slows the bases in front of most runners on the team. I’m of the opinion that he should have everyone in front of him that he possibly can to limit the liabilities from it.
Though you can make a case for Duncan hitting there in this lineup, I guess I don’t see it as punishment for Yadi, just part of the natural consequences of having Mr GG sitting behind the plate.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He is a dp threat, but TLR often hits and run with him
TLR used him in the 2 spot at least once this year.
by greenwichvillagecard on Jun 30, 2008 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think this has generally been a Cardinal problem as a whole, rather than Duncan directly. Though he’s the one that shines now.
Cases in point:
Skip down spirals in performance after a hot start, even some questionable defensive plays during that time. He stays in, probably a lot longer than he should have.
Ank downspirals after a decent start, and some can say that he still is. He stays in.
Iz OBP and BA start to drop, Ryan doesn’t get any playing time. Miles does.
Kennedy has awful games but sticks around during the splits, Ryan doesn’t get any playing time.
This whole season was s’posed to be all about performance for playing time, and for the most part, the platoons haven’t reflected that.
As a result, Ryan and Barton have gotten shafted, in one way or another. “Perform to Play” went out the window once we had a hot start in April I’m afraid.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan has definitely been shafted
TLR’s comments about him playing ’’young’’ kind of unmasked his opinions of him. His defense hasn’t been bad, certainly much better than Miles’. If he could be a little bit more patient at the plate, sitting him for IZ2 would be much more undefensible.
by greenwichvillagecard on Jun 30, 2008 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ryan
statistically and generally is just as good on defense as Iz is IMO. He doesn’t make it look flash, but his natural range is superb.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The difference defensively
Is I’ve never said “Wow!” when Ryan makes a throw. I’ve probably said it a half dozen times at least when seeing Iz2 make throws from the hole.
Ryan may have slightly better range, but the arm advantage is definately with Iz2.
by Tackle Box on Jun 30, 2008 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that I’ll give, but considering Eck, I guess any arm is a good arm. Both represent the position well from a defensive standpoint, I’m sure we can both agree there
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And for the record
I was never comparing any of these guys to Eckstein, although I did often say “WOW!” when Eck made a throw. Unfortunatley it was usually sounded something like “WOW! He put absolutely everything into that throw on a routine grounder and he juuuuuuust barely got Henry Blanco at first….......wow.”
slight difference.
;-D
by Tackle Box on Jun 30, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
or...
WOW. Eck killed ALBERT!!!!!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 30, 2008 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's been swinging it better of late.....
And before you go find “stats” that say otherwise, I’ve watched his AB’s, and they’ve been of an acceptable level.
by SoonerfanTU on Jun 30, 2008 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
not a fan of stats?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 30, 2008 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stats agree w/you
Last two games:
Hitters AB R H RBI BB SO LOB AVG
C Duncan DH 2 0 1 1 2 1 1 .233
C Duncan 1B 5 0 2 1 0 0 1 .238
The last two games have been encouraging for Chris. It looks to me that he is still not swinging very smoothly. He looks a bit jerky. But I think he must be seeing the ball better thus the walks. Also the last rbi he hit, he worked the count to 3-2 before blooping it. Outside of the double two nights ago, I don’t think he has really centered the ball yet. But he is contributing, so I don’t think a little more rope is all that unreasonable.
My personal thinking on why Dunc needs to hit ML pitching is for a possible trade. If you want Dunc to remain with the Cards, then you will wish him to tank and be sent down to Memphis. The quickest way to ship him out is for him to get hot before the trading dealine.
Many of our OFs have hit rough spots this year: Ank, Barton, Dunc, Lud, etc… I know Dunc’s slump is the longest, but why don’t I ever hear clamors for Luddy or Ank to be sent down? I am not the pres. of C. Dunc fan club. I just want Cards to get value out of Chris.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on Jun 30, 2008 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well, we’re going to have to think about something because we currently have
stav, mather, razza, and now robinson sitting in memphis. even if dunc were to be down there we would be taking at bats away from someone else that could argue deserving them.
we’re starting to have some serious OF glut, hope it gets fixed in the next month.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 30, 2008 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
there just has to be a trade of one of em soon
at the very least you have to make rooom for the Raz for next year.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 30, 2008 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder
if there is a correlation between Mulder being forced in for business reasons, and the coaches request to keep Chris with the boys?
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jun 30, 2008 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not sure I see the upside of keeping Duncan up and Mather down. At least with Mather you have some versitility in the field. Duncan can't hit righties or lefties, and he is a defensive trainwreck.
An optimist is a man who upon discovering that a rose smells better than a cabbage concludes it will make better soup.
HL Mencken
by akaitori on Jun 30, 2008 6:41 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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