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Marky Mark

I saw "The Happening" directed by M. Night Shyamalan last night.  It was a rather suspenseful and intense movie.  The mysterious "cause" throughout the plot was a bit lame and the script had a few glaring hiccups ("Look everyone there's a house!", says Mark Wahlberg in a painfully poor segue.) but it was a nice 90 minute escape after a bad day.  I've been thinking about Mark lately.  No, not Mark Wahlberg (and yes, this is only a marginally better segue than the one in the movie) but Mark Mulder.  With a recent spate of articles by both Joe Strauss and Derrick Goold, I've been reminiscing about this love/hate relationship I have with Mulder (used to love him. . . . not so much anymore).

I wish I could say I didn't like the Mulder trade when it happened, but I can't.  I recall hearing that Tim Hudson had gone to the Braves and was quite disappointed that the Cardinals had let him slip by.  I wasn't as well versed in baseball stats as I am now; I was much more of a casual but still informed fan.  I knew who the "Big Three" were in Oakland and I knew that there were rumors that they were about to be split up.  I wanted the Cardinals to acquire a top of the rotation pitcher and at the time I approved of the deal.  There were obviously vocal critics and, in hindsight, I'd certainly love a do over.  If you transport me back in time and erase my memory, I can't say that I wouldn't make that deal again though. 

Regardless, Goold does a fine job of tracing the assets that Oakland received stemming from the Mulder trade and I'm not really here to relive that.  Fastforward from the trade to 2006 offseason when Mulder was resigned by Walt Jocketty (January of 2007) for 2 years with a club option on the 3rd.  $13 million dollars is nothing to sneeze at but his salary wasn't going to cripple the team by any means.  A lot of people had wizened up to Mulder by then and it would appear rightfully so.  But I'm not really here to relive that either.

It's 2008.  Three years after the trade.  18 months after the extension.  The Cardinals are contending for the wild card in the National League and the Brewers are hot on their heals.  It's not 2005, 2006 or 2007.  It's 2008.  Just to repeat, in case the front office missed that, it's 2008.

The talk of Mark Mulder possibly pitching for the major league club in the very near future nauseates me a little bit.  There's really only a few reasons why this would be justified:

  1. The club needs to recoup on it's investment.
  2. Mulder has proven himself in the minors and is ready to step into the rotation.
  3. There are no better options internally.
  4. They need to see what they have in Mulder.

Let's address these in order.  The first one is probably the strongest and most discussed justification that I've heard.  It's too bad that it's patently false.  John Mozeliak has no reason to try and recoup on this investment.  He has the perfect excuse (blame Jocketty) and there's no real return to be had unless reasons 2 or 3 are met.  It's not as if the Cardinals get money back in their pocket if Mulder pitches.  Mulder isn't a crowd draw at this stage in his career.  The 13M has been spent -- there's no way to put it back in the club's coffers. 

If the club was looking to "recoup" that would probably be best achieved if Mulder pushed the club over the hump to the playoffs.  That requires him to be able to pitch at the major league level.  A prerequisite to pitching in the majors is being able to pitch in the minors.  On the 19th, he surrendered 6 ER in 3.2 innings allowing 10 hits.  Add the random back stiffness that Mulder has had and he can neither retire minor leaguers nor stay healthy enough to attempt to retire minor leaguers.  His outing on June the 14th was good (5IP, 5H, 0ER, 3K, 0BB) so at best you can make the argument that he's inconsistent.  If the best Mark Mulder can offer the big league club is inconsistency, then he doesn't need to be pitching for them unless there are no better options internally.

Internal options exist though.  In fact, there are quite a few.  Mitchell Boggs seems to be the most logical counter to that justification.  Boggs certainly hasn't been exceptional in St. Louis but he's gotten groundball outs and he hasn't been blown out of any games yet.  He's got a good not great minor league track record. Or maybe you really want a lefty in the rotation.  Jaime Garcia went 6.2 innings allowing 3 ER on 6 hits and no walks last night.  O ya, he also struck out 10 batters while recording 8 groundouts against 2 flyouts.  Is Mulder really a better option than Garcia right now?  Because that's what I think the club should be worried about.  Right now.  2008.

But maybe they aren't.  Maybe they're also looking ahead to that 11 million [/gag] dollar option.  We know there isn't a snowball's chance in hell that that isn't getting bought out for 1.5 million.  Still, they could be evaluating Mulder for a Matt Clement type incentive based contract (because Clement has worked so well).  Is it possible that the Cardinals could evaluate Mulder in the majors without (basically) committing a game to his hands in the form of a start?  I mean, is it possible that there's a way he could pitch for just an inning or so at a time in low leverage situations?  Or maybe hone his craft against a few lefties just to get his feet wet?  We haven't had any left handed relievers hit the DL recently have we? And by the same token, can't the Cardinals look at young players like Garcia or Boggs as well to see what they offer in the future?  Those players are "free" so it would be nice to know if they can be penciled in for 2009.

But again, it's 2008.  The Cardinals are contending.  They aren't running away with the wild card and there's plenty of time to mess it up with silly roster moves like putting unproductive players in the starting rotation.  There's no viable and compelling reason for the Cardinals to give Mulder a start.  He hasn't earned it.  It shouldn't be given to him in some poor attempt at saving an ex-employee's reputation.  He's had to totally revamp his mechanics.  Sure he says he's feeling good when he's pitching but didn't he also "feel fine" when his shoulder was in threads?  The Cardinals have better options for now and the future. 

I'll never forget that 10-inning complete game he threw against the Astros with Roger Clemens opposing him.  That was an awesome game in 2005.  But enough is enough.  End the charade.  Don't try to grease the wheels for his probably disastrous return. Call us when you can retire AAA batters.  It was nice knowing you Marky Mark. 

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Murky Mark

and his troubles are best forgotten. I, too, was all for the trade when it happened. The question (raised by many here and elsewhere) will always be was he damaged goods when we got him, and isn’t that the domain of the people who get paid to obsess about these things (as opposed to those of us who do it for free)?
To get back to the point, I agree with you, azruavatar, that they need to focus on 2008 and can’t waste starts on Mulder and his murky arm slot.
On that note, does anyone know why WonderBrad is in the minors and Parisi is allowed to lose game after game? Isn’t Thompson a better option? A least he’s had some success.
Yesterday was a horrendous loss, exposing the black hole in our lineup (#’s 4,5,and6), with 2 of Detroit’s 3 runs coming on bases-loaded walks. The 4 and 5 holes are beginning to resemble last year’s ineptitude.
Anyone think it’s time to bat Albert #4 with Lud or Ank #3? That might help kick start either of them.
Sorry for the rambling nature of this, but yesterday was extremely frustrating.

by vinniefromjersey on Jun 27, 2008 7:41 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

"Black Hole" defined:

A great void; an abyss

The #5 hole in the Cardinals’ lineup is currently #5 in all of baseball in OPS. Hardly a great void. In fact, I’d say it is rather productive.

The #4 slot is about average as far as #4 hitters go. Is it Jimmy Edmonds at his peak? No. Absolutely not. A black hole that does not make. An .804 isn’t setting the world on fire. It’s slightly below average.

The production from the #6 hole has been lackluster to say the least, but still a bit better than the black holes that are Izturis and Kennedy (not that that is saying anything). The .711 OPS is in the bottom one-third of the league as a whole. Nonetheless, it is still better than our #7 and #9 hole production. I would designate them as the black holes of the lineup. I didn’t even put up their OPS numbers because they are so horrendous.

by bgh on Jun 27, 2008 9:13 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Totally agree about WonderBrad...

even though Thompson is not pitching well in Memphis, he should be pitching instead of Parisi. I can’t imagine that Thompson would be worse.

by jdubya on Jun 27, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Depends

As relievers…

Parisi: 16.1 IP / 4.41 ERA / 10 SO / 8 BB

WunderBrad: 7 IP / 7.71 ERA / 2 SO / 6 BB

Now, overall, including starts, he has been the better pitcher.

Parisi: 23 IP / 8.22 ERA / 13 SO / 15 BB

WunderBrad: 22.2 IP / 4.37 ERA / 14 SO / 10 BB

I will say that I don’t ever want either of them to pitch late in a tie ballgame.

by bgh on Jun 27, 2008 5:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree that i wouldn't want either but...

if the choice is Parisi or Thompson, i would take Thompson. Brad also has more mlb experience.

also, you gotta think that Parisi’s confidence is as low as it can get right now. as Yogi said, “90% of baseball is half mental”.

by jdubya on Jun 27, 2008 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

lineup change would help. have to break the strikeout chain that is LUDDY, RICK, AND CLAUS

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!

by sportsman on Jun 27, 2008 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've heard The Happening is terrible

but I still kinda want to check it out, because i always watch those M Night Shamaylan movies. In a related note, watching Mike Parisi pitch kinda makes me want to throw myself in front of a giant lawnmower.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jun 27, 2008 8:47 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

If people are expecting a masterpiece they are going to be disappointed

but it wasn’t nearly as bad as Lady in the Water and I thought it was better than The Village as well. There were 3-4 different times where I almost jumped out of my seat and several occasions where I couldn’t watch what was happening because of the sheer imagery shock. I think it’s gotten a bad rap because everyone is looking for Shyamalan to come up with another Unbreakable or The Sixth Sense but it was a solid movie.

by azruavatar on Jun 27, 2008 9:02 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unbreakable

I thought that was one of the worst movies I’ve ever seen, so if he was coming up with another one of those…count me out.

The Sixth Sense wasn’t so bad the first time around.

by stlfan on Jun 27, 2008 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

those movies were radically different experiences for me

I could watch The Sixth Sense over and over again. Noting the nuances that are used to make it seem as if Willis is - well you know - was an incredible bit of filmwork. The emotional connection between the boy and his mother was particularly well done too especially when he discusses his grandmother with his mother at the end of the movie.

The twist in Unbreakable was very unexpected and caught me off guard but I thought it really made the movie. Plus the link back to the beginning with the Mr. Glassman line—genius. But that was a one time watch for me b/c it didn’t resonate much beyond the plot twist.

by azruavatar on Jun 27, 2008 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Same thing for me but the exact opposite....

I could watch “Unbreakable” over and over again. I think the story had more structure having been built upon a sort of comic book story frame work. Overall I think it was the better written film of the two.

Once I saw the twist in the “Sixth Sense” I couldn’t really enjoy it.

I have said it a lot that I think that M. Night Shyamalan should stop writing his own work. He is an incredible director that has built a terrific brand name for himself. He could take other gifted writers works and really build on them.

by BigJawnMize on Jun 27, 2008 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Review

Only for those who already have seen it, or never will (contains spoilers): I found this to be hilarious…

by Woodwork on Jun 27, 2008 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That.

Was.

Awesome.

by liam on Jun 27, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Did you...

eat a lot of paint chips as a kid?

by cardzfanbub on Jun 27, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unbreakable was okay

but I liked Sixth Sense and Signs better. I’ve heard The Happening doesn’t really explain what is going on, and that everyone is left at the end of the movie with nothing more than they started out with.

by saladdays on Jun 27, 2008 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The twist in Signs annoyed me to the point that I couldn't handle it

You’re aliens, and WATER is your poison? And you chose to invade the effing EARTH? And out of all the places, you land in Pennsylvania? How did this race manage to muster enough intelligence to build a spaceship?

On the other hand, I though Unbreakable was well done.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jun 27, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't consider that the twist as much as a few other things

The twist was that there were reasons why the girl left glasses of water everywhere and why the boy had asthma. Plus, these were “signs” that Gibson’s character saw as being from God, and were brought him back into the priesthood.

Obviously the aliens bit is important, but remember that they did invade other parts of the world as well.

by saladdays on Jun 27, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+ 1

And the signs were for communication? How the hell did all of them get to earth in the first place then? Nuked the fridge ;-)

by Woodwork on Jun 27, 2008 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Aliens. Other planets. No water....... Dunno what water is.......

Heh.

Also, they were in many places. They were watching a TV news thing about the aliens in Brazil.

by sdrone on Jun 27, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But water is one of the easiest chemicals to synthesize

Even if you lived in a world that didn’t have water, it’s pretty inconcievable that you wouldn’t know what it was, and be able to recognize it from a simple spectral analysis of the planet’s surface.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jun 27, 2008 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

All movies fail then

Because there’s always something in them that isn’t real life.

by saladdays on Jun 27, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except the Pagemaster

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jun 27, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And

The Postman

Well who the hell can see forever?

by Alxfritz on Jun 27, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and Carlos Zambrano is tempting the baseball gods
CHICAGO (AP) - Carlos Zambrano wants to pitch in next month’s All-Star game - to help the Chicago Cubs gain homefield advantage in the World Series

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jun 27, 2008 8:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

What a stupid decision that is....

that’s assuming a lot—from a guy who got beat in the playoffs last season when they were swept by Arizona in the first round.

On that note, since it counts, it’s time to take the fan vote seriously and look at coupling it with the votes of the players and managers into some kind of system that allows the players playing the best and giving the team a best chance to win to make the team. Also, I’m a big fan of playing the very best players as long as possible, extending the AS break to 4 days so that starting pitchers can actually pitch, and making sure each team has 3 closers.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jun 27, 2008 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sarcasm

I hope everyone takes the above comment as sarcastic—but that’s how ridiculous it is to make the all-star game have an impact on the outcome of the championship series.

I’m sorry, how about we give the team with the BEST RECORD home field in the World Series????

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jun 27, 2008 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

They wouldn't do that

Because it would be FANtastic.

"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin

by That's a Winner on Jun 27, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here, here! Great article

I’m glad someone is finally talking about the Cardinals having a chance this year, and expressing concern over sacrificing the team’s chances for the sake of one player. How many times have we heard “keep __ on the DL for as long as possible. This season isn’t important. If we fall out of contention, we fall out of contention?”

I’d love to see Garcia pulled up (send Parisi down, perhaps). Give him a chance and see if he’s got the right stuff.

Patiently awaiting Mulder's return, circa 2012

by bjork24 on Jun 27, 2008 8:51 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Garcia isn't ready.....

Check out his last few starts in Memphis.

by SoonerfanTU on Jun 27, 2008 9:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Garcia could come up

right now and get lefties out from the pen. It’s interesting that you wrote that b/c AZ included last night’s start in his column—6.2 IP, 0 BB, 10 K, 8 ground ball outs, 3 ER and 6 H. He may not be ready to start games for the team (though he’d be as good as Boggs or better if he did) but we probably don’t want him pitching 180 – 190 innings this year anyway. He would instantly become our best LOOGY from the pen if the team decided to go that route.

by chuckb on Jun 27, 2008 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What are hus numbers against lefties in Memphis?

Because, unless I’m looking at the wrong ones, they aren’t that great.

by SoonerfanTU on Jun 27, 2008 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

are you looking at the ones

that show a grand total of 19 plate appearances? Not much to work w/ but striking out 6 out of 19 isn’t too shabby. Still, sample sizes don’t get much smaller than 19. It tells me that AAA managers don’t play many lefties against him.

by chuckb on Jun 27, 2008 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough.....

But can’t the opposite be said too then, that we don’t know that he could even get lefties out consistently at the big league level?

Just b/c he is a lefty, and a pretty good pitching prospect, doesn’t mean he’s ready to mow down lefties.

by SoonerfanTU on Jun 27, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

A pretty good prospect

he wouldn’t be a pretty good prospect if he couldn’t get out lefties. Look at more than just this year please.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 27, 2008 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

His start last night was a masterpiece

with no help from his defense

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jun 27, 2008 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He gave up more than a hit per inning.....

Nothing masterful about that. 3 ER, not bad, but not steller, and this was one of his better starts in recent weeks, I think.

Not saying the kid stinks, just saying he isn’t ready. I, personally, and not a big fan of letting kids that aren’t ready experience failure at the major league level, and then turn around and get shipped back down to AAA 2 weeks later. We have other choices.

by SoonerfanTU on Jun 27, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah but...

he struck out 10 and didn’t walk anyone! I call that an excellent outing. sounds like the defense let him down as well (he had 2 unearned runs).

also, your comment that he gave up more than a hit put inning is misleading. He gave up 7 hits in 6 and 2/3. That’s just barely more than a hit per inning. for the season he’s given up 59 hits in 59-1/3 innings and has 52 Ks.

by jdubya on Jun 27, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

7 baserunners

in 6.2 IP is excellent at any level, even in AAA b/c the defense often lets the pitcher down. Would 4 baserunners have been better? No question but Garcia’s not far from being able to contribute at the major league level. In fact, there’s little doubt that he could step into the pen now and be better than Villone or either of the Floreses.

by chuckb on Jun 27, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You have ridiculous expectations

If you don’t find that outing masterful for a 21 year old at AAA

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jun 27, 2008 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Are you really trying to say

that it would be worse to let Mulder have one last try to be a big-league pitcher than to give his roster spot to Parisi, who’s showing all too clearly that he can’t?

by StanTheManFan on Jun 27, 2008 9:22 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

No

He’s saying give his spot to Boggs are Garcia.

by mikedallas45 on Jun 27, 2008 9:23 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Comparing apples to firetrucks

Parisi is pitching in relief. If his roster spot were to go to another hurler, it would likely be of the relieving variety. Mulder is a starter, who has not shown any sort of consistency and barely thrown any innings in the minors since getting a second opinion on his shoulder and then retooling his delivery and mechanics. Starting him for the big club is likely not what is best for either Mulder or the Cardinals. I type this in ignorance as to his rehab status, but allowing him another start or two for Memphis would probably be in the best interest of every party here. Let Mulder develop some consistency with his new mechanics in games that are not as important as those that have a direct impact on the playoff hunt.

by bgh on Jun 27, 2008 9:27 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Parisi

i dont think I saw his name in the post, let me double check. i think the point stands, mulder has shown very little at the AA level and even less at the AAA level, and to boot, other guys are dominating those levels. the point is, why bring mulder up? to me, it just doesnt make any sense.

by UNCDubya on Jun 27, 2008 9:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's annoying when people try to comment on the post

when they haven’t taken the time to read it, isn’t it?

by chuckb on Jun 27, 2008 9:57 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Completely agree

What angers me the most though is why do I have to keep reading posts about acquiring Greg Maddux? I’m sick of it. The guy is a 5 inning pitcher who doesn’t help our situation at all.

News Flash!!! Maddux likes pitching in San Diego (for whatever reason) and has a no trade clause. Don’t you think if he were to approve a trade, it would be to a team on the west coast near his home? Makes sense doesn’t it?

So please. I’ve heard ENOUGH about the Greg Maddux crapola. We do not need him.

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trade Duncan

to San Francisco – they need a 1st baseman!!!

by njnick on Jun 27, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Calm down

and get your facts straight. There is no reason to be so pushy and sarcastic. Maddux is averaging just over 6 innings in his seventeen starts this year and is holding down a 3.52 ERA. He would be a hell of an addition at the trade deadline if we are still in it, and if he holds up for the entire year. He is still averaging over 200 IP for his career and threw 198.0 last year. He’s on pace to through over 200 again this year and last I checked after WW went down we don’t have a pitcher on that pace right now. Lohse, Looper, and WW may get ther but they are going to have to start going deeper into games like oh lets just say Maddux for instance.

by DJ4508 on Jun 27, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Attention

*there may be some sarcasm in this post.

(apparantly forgot to add that part)

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Attention

Sarcasm doesn’t translate into written text unless it’s completely over the top and non-sensical…

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jun 27, 2008 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

just steal my sig

I don’t mind at all

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 27, 2008 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Home/Away

In SD: 2.46 ERA over 55 IP
Away: 4.75 ERA over 47.1 IP

He wouldn’t be holding down a 3.52 ERA if the majority of his innings weren’t thrown in the pitching-friendly confines of Petco Park. With numbers like these, sarcasm aside, anyone would like pitching in San Diego. They also make him a much riskier proposition in terms of what to expect.

by bgh on Jun 27, 2008 5:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OKAY OKAY OKAY

EVERYONE STOP PROVING YOUR POINTS!!!

Obviously, I failed at my attempt at a sarcastic reply to HoustonCardinals response about reading the entire article before responding. Please stop responding to the Maddux thing. I didn’t mean any of it.

Then again, with the way I worded things in direct response to HC’s comment, maybe his recomendation has some merit to it. Either way, I appoligize to bgh and DJ. Some got it, and obvioulsy others didn’t. I by no means want people searching for stats to refute me on this.

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

who wouldn't

want to pitch in petco, which occupies an alarmingly large part of north america

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!

by sportsman on Jun 27, 2008 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bullpen

If Mulder comes up he should be slated as a long reliever and not as a starter. Until he can prove he deserves to be in the starting rotation.

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 27, 2008 9:23 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think he should be a reliever instead of as starter

because..he hasn’t been in a rotation for almost 2 YEARS! If he can only be effective for a couple innings at a time, why not take advantage of that instead of expecting more?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 27, 2008 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

by the way

there is a link on side of the page to marky mark ringtones, if anyone is interested.

by UNCDubya on Jun 27, 2008 9:49 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

if Mulder were a horse

we would have shot by now as the humane thing to do.

by jjray on Jun 27, 2008 9:57 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure when his 30 day window expires

but it’s gotta be coming up soon. This means that the Cards’ brass will have to make a decision on Mulder that, likely, won’t involve keeping him in the minors. They’ll have to pull him up to the big club, DL him, or DFA him. They’re not going to DFA him, whether they should or not. They might try another DL stint, ala Izzy, Flores, and Mulder a few weeks ago but it seems to me that he’s coming whether we like it or not (and I don’t, BTW).

I’m not sure what the options really are. Ideally, I suppose they could DFA him and, when he’s not claimed, send him outright to Memphis but, as I said, that isn’t going to happen. They could release him but that won’t happen either. I imagine we’re going to have to cross our fingers and pray he does at least as well as Boggs. God knows what they’ll do when Wainwright comes back but they’ve got 6 weeks to work on that.

by chuckb on Jun 27, 2008 10:01 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm not so sure we can say they won't DFA him

Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the real reason they wanted him to make a major league start so soon. They have to realize they’re pushing their luck with the DL thing this year and can’t just keep repeatedly throwing underperformers on it without real injuries.

Given Mulder’s 30 day window I bet they really wanted to see what he could do and make the DFA decision.

by birdo rojo on Jun 27, 2008 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boggs will go on Sat. instead of Mulder

Here’s a link to the Notes page on STLtoday that says Mulder’s not ready and Boggs will go.

by birdo rojo on Jun 27, 2008 10:16 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The side bar ad.

Now has Marky Mark Ring tones. I’ll leave that one where it is.

Anyone live down thwards Steelevile? I am camping out in that area this week and was wondering if there was a local station that carries the Cardinals broadcast?

by Evilfrog on Jun 27, 2008 10:55 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Radio broadcast

I used to live in Rolla and I think it was 102.1 out of Sullivan that had the games. You can probably get that in Steelville. If not, try 99.7 out of Rolla. Unless you mean Steeleville, IL. If that’s the case, you might be able to pick up 93.1 out of Perryville, MO.

by capeboda on Jun 27, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes

99.7 is the only one i know of, they also have foxsports-talk all weekend other than ball games

are you taking a float trip, or just the camping?

Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.

by bigcardsfan5 on Jun 27, 2008 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

float trip

camping tonight. floating and camping tomorrow. Tahnks guys!

by Evilfrog on Jun 27, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Have fun

I was on the current river a few weeks ago and couldn’t get the game after leaving Salem.

Fortunately, a fellow camper brought an XM radio.

by liam on Jun 27, 2008 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

i would say that is about right, once you get past eminence, you may be able to get a feed from west plains, not sure though

Pujols is the greatest Cardinal in my lifetime.

by bigcardsfan5 on Jun 27, 2008 4:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mulder Defender

I’m sure I’ll get ripped for this, but here is goes.

The Mark Mulder deal was a great trade when it happened. At the time of the trade he was 1 of the top 3 lefties in baseball. I’m not sure the exact numbers but he was also one of the winningest pitchers over the past 3 or so seasons. All the cardinals gave up was a average middle reliever, a blocked prospect and a young starting pitcher that had potential. The health questions had nothing to do with his arm. The health questions centered around his hip. His hip has proven fine.

In 2005 Mulder was a very good starting pitcher for the cardinals and was off to an excellent start in 2006. On may 17th of that season, he was 5-1, the cardinals were 8-1 in his starts, and he had an era of 3.69. That is when the shoulder trouble began. We are all too familiar with the history from there.

However, there are reasons for the cardinals to give Mulder a chance after 2 years of shoulder struggles. The first being he is Mark Mulder. He knows how to pitch in the big leagues. He is a proven winner. Not just with his stuff but with the mental aspect of the game. Also, it is possible to miss this much time and come back as a good MLB starter. Anyone remember Chris Carpenters 1 and half season absence with shoulder trouble? Also, garcia I don’t think should be considered for this year. He is not ready. In addition, he is not on the 40-man roster and would require a roster move. Also, why rush a potential future starter. Why start his arbitration clock? Control is a big issue these days.

Now I’m not saying to roll Mulder out there every 5th day. All I’m saying is, it IS in the team’s best interest to see if the new arm slot will allow him to compete. Reports are that he is getting ground balls and throwing his fastball at 90+. IF he can do those things, then Mulder will be a very successful big league pitcher. I want to see if he can do it. One or 2 starts is worth the gamble.

by stickman179 on Jun 27, 2008 11:16 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree and disagree

I dislike the trade at the time – Haren alone had better numbers (ERA and strikeouts, I wasn’t smart enough to know about more advanced stats at the time) the previous year than Mulder did, but Mulder was a very good pitcher and he knew how to win as you say. Plus it’s water under the bridge so rehashing the trade doesn’t do anyone any good.

I also support giving him 1 or 2 starts or some long relief/bullpen opportunities to see if he still remembers the concept of winning. What I don’t think anyone wants to happen is for him to be trotted out 6, 7, 8+ times while the only thing climbing faster than his loss total is his ERA. This team is too close to the Wild Card and division title to sacrifice a bunch of games.

by birdo rojo on Jun 27, 2008 11:24 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The trade for Mulder...

I admit I liked the premise of trading for a pitcher of Mulder’s stature at that point, but his stats had started to decline in the second half of 2004. That should have been a red flag. The stats back that up.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/6393/splits;_ylt=AmMc77rVYvn_M.OqAqk8fNyFCLcF?year=2004&type=Pitching

Now, every time I see Dan Haren mow down a lineup, I want to throw up.

"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley

by TurdFerguson on Jun 27, 2008 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

2005

His number came back to form in his 1st year as a cardinal. Again, the trouble was not his arm, it was his hip. And while now Dan Haren is a special pitcher, no one suspected at the time that he would be an ace. He was projected as a middle of the rotation pitcher. The fact that he flourished is not something that was a gurantee.

Would I rather have Haren now than Mulder, of course. But like birdo said, it’s water under the bridge. All I’m saying is I want to see if he can still do it. If he is throwing 90 and getting ground balls, then I think he can. That’s all.

by stickman179 on Jun 27, 2008 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to be argumentative

But I read several things during the 04-05 off season where scouts, GMs and baseball writers were saying that Haren was going to be a stud. His success wasn’t a surprise, at least not to me.

Having said that, I would love for Mulder to be able to come back and be effective. I just have a “once bitten, twice shy” attitude about him, and I suspect I’m not the only Cards fan who feels that way.

"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley

by TurdFerguson on Jun 27, 2008 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Baseball America Circa 2004

For Triple-A Memphis in 2004, he went 11-4, 4.15 with a Pacific Coast League-best 150 strikeouts against 33 walks in 128 innings, giving him a career minor league mark of 32-17, 3.15 with an impressive 462-68 strikeout-to-walk ratio in 475 innings. Haren has the size, makeup and pitch combination to become a solid starter in the big leagues, though he’ll be hard pressed to match Mulder’s achievements. A strong splitter, biting slider and solid-average change complement his 88-92 mph fastball. Most likely moving into the A’s rotation for 2005.

Solid middle of the rotation guy. Don’t get me wrong, I liked Dan Haren a lot back then too, but he was not projected to be as good as Mulder, let alone better. That’s the trouble with projections, they never seem to go how you want them too.

by stickman179 on Jun 27, 2008 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're the one

using the projections, not me, so that comment is pointless. Clearly, have a stronger stomach than I do, wanting to watch him toe the rubber again, so congratulations on that. I hope you turn out to be correct, because the Cards can use all the capable arms they can get.

"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley

by TurdFerguson on Jun 27, 2008 1:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Dave Duncan

didn’t want to part with Haren for Mulder. He asked Walt if they’d take Marquis instead.

That would’ve been a nice trade.

by liam on Jun 27, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh yeah, i remember that

they listen to Dave about every thing else the man tells them to do, why didn’t they listen then?

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Jun 27, 2008 4:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

understatement of the year!

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 27, 2008 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If it was Hudson for Haren

would people still be upset? I’m guessing not, but at that time it’s hard to argue Mulder and Hudson weren’t equal. Since we needed a Lefty starter to take on a heavy lefty team during the postseason (i.e., Ortiz,Damon,...), the go for Mulder made sense. Walt was clearly going all out for ‘05 even if it meant giving up the future.

I think we lose a lot of perspective on ‘05 because of ‘06. Yeah we ended up winning it a year later, but ‘05 was clearly our best chance to earn a title. We had Walker, Sanders, and Morris with one year left, plus Izzy and Edmonds were clearly at their peak and on the downward trend. It wasn’t clear if Carpenter would return to his ‘04 form because of his nerve issues.

Mulder gave us 1 good year, helped get us to the playoffs, and didn’t fail during the playoffs. In the end our problem in 2005 wasn’t starting pitching but offense. Rolen ’s injury and Walker’s condition really showed against Houston. Reggie Sanders was our offense that postseason if you remember. Mulder just wasn’t Oswalt in Games 2 & 6, as we only scored 2 runs total in those two games. Mulder also pitched well enough to win those two games, even though each run he gave up felt to me like some betrayal.

I think going for a World Series win is worth the price of a starting pitching prospect. Things are just never certain.

by enoscountry on Jun 27, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am in no way as optimistic as

stickman, but this is one of those castor-oil moments for us Cardinals fans. IOW, the Cardinals aren’t going to dump Mulder until the 15-ton anvil of reality falls on their heads, i.e., until he proves that he has no business on a major league mound. And that will mean putting him on that mound and watching the implosion that I fully expect. So we will have to take our ugly medicine. Gird your loins, guys and gals.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 27, 2008 11:26 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Something Interesting I heard This Morning

This is something I think everyone would be interested in, but didn’t really deserve any kind of FanPost, but I was listening to Jimmy The Cat Hayes…aka Mr. Bubbles…on the radio this morning, and he said he just got back from Memphis doing a few interviews. He talked about interviewing Rasmus, and after the interview, Rasmus told The Cat that he’d never told anyone what he had told The Cat in the interview. Rasmus blamed his slow start on his disappointment from not making the team out of camp. Hayes paraphrased Rasmus as saying the trade of Edmonds, all the hype that came from a possible spot for him in the lineup, and such a late demotion from the big team in Spring Training all added to his disappointment and his slump at the beginning of the year. Hayes said that he just wasn’t in the right mindset to have fun in Memphis.

I thought this was pretty new news, and if its old…sorry….just thought some people might like to know this…I think the interviews will be aired on FSN Midwest within a week, something to look out for.

by Dave0585 on Jun 27, 2008 12:02 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll chalk this up to getting caught up in the moment

Usually, if someone were to say he slumped because he didn’t get a promotion (which quite a few people did with Perez earlier this year when Izzy almost got DL’d), i’d question his mental makeup and all kinds of things. But in this case, I think it might be more to getting his hopes up and buying into the hype a little too much. Plus, he’s 21 years old. Who knows what people (outside the organization, i.e., parents, friends, etc.) were saying to him?

But, I don’t think this exactly explains why he’s struggled at every level upon being promoted. Maybe he’s making an excuse so the organization doesn’t think he’s weak mentally. First, it was his dad saying he was struggling because the cardinals were screwing with his approach and making him hit the opposite way. Now, he was disappointed over not making the MLB club. Who knows? I just hope this kid isn’t getting too much attention and is becoming something he cannot live up to.

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think Colby's dad

said that the “Cards messing with his swing” story started when one of Colby’s younger brothers logged onto an internet chat room under his dad’s screen name and made those comments because he was disappointed Colby wasn’t promoted. We can argue all day over whether that’s true or not, but either way I’m not sure its fair to question his mental make-up based on what his dad and/or brother are saying about him in internet chat rooms.

by Ray Lankford on Jun 27, 2008 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just love it

when dad’s and brothers and other family members all start talking to the media and starting rumors about a 20-21 year old kid. No wonder he was “disappointed” he didn’t make the big club and which threw him into a tailspin for two months. He listens to his family too much.

This is gonna be fun.

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sarcasm?

I just don’t see why people wouldn’t believe him when he says he was disappointed. Like they say, he is still just 21, he is allowed to act it.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 27, 2008 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just lost quite a bit of respect for Mozeliak

After reading this. He clearly is in the palm of TLR and Duncan

Mo just told Frank Cusamano on KFNS that Chris Duncan is going to have to “do it here at the big league level” when Cusamano asked him about sending Duncan back to AAA.

They obviously have no plans to send him back to Memphis when the GM makes a statement like that. Shocked

You just lost a lot of credibility with Cardinal fans Mo.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jun 27, 2008 12:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

groan

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jun 27, 2008 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One bad decision

after a pretty damn good offseason, one in which saw him trade Jim Edmonds and Scott Rolen and let David Eckstien walk (would Walt Jockety done any of these things?). I’m not so quick to say he lost “a lot” of credibiltiy with me.

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought Walt

Did let Eckstien walk.

by Evilfrog on Jun 27, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe I'm missing some other meaning to what you're saying

Anyway, Jocketty was let go on October 3rd, which I believe was the first day of the 2007 playoffs.

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think you got it.

I though Jocketty let Eckstien walk before the club fired Jocketty. But i’ve been wrong at least 4 times before. So it wouldn’t surprise me that Mo was unboard before Eck signed with the Blue Birds.

by Evilfrog on Jun 27, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, i don't think Mo had actually been hired

but he was the acting “interim” GM at the time.

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yea, maybe I was being a bit overdramatic

I just don’t like that this move is clearly being done because of who Chris’s dad is.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jun 27, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What??

I doubt it and I am kind of sick of hearing that excuse….....

Look Dunc would play every frickin day if it’s all beacuse of his daddy…..........

by ICbirdfan on Jun 27, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well that's not true

Nepotism could still be a motivating factor, just not to the degree you suggested (playing every day).

Not saying I agree that is the motivation, but simply saying “well, he’s not playing every day, so the father – son thing has nothing to do with it” just doesn’t make sense.

by Ray Lankford on Jun 27, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here is how is see it.......

Chris has already been sent down to AAA. Prior to that demotion lots of people said that Chris would never be sent down due to his dad. Well they were obviously wrong because Chris was sent down.

Now once again people say Chris will not be sent down due to his dad. Well the flaw in the theory is Chris has been sent down once already so come up with some other reason besides his dad. I am just sick of hearing it, and you know what I don’t want to see Chris in the line up right now because he is struggling…

by ICbirdfan on Jun 27, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the real answer is that

what the hell else can Moz do with Dunc right now? If he’s eating up ABs at Memphis he’s keeping a prospect from getting needed ABs. (OK, the objection to that might be that you could swap him with Mather and he could have Mather’s AAA ABs. But then, when Mather’s in STL he’s gonna ride the pine more often than not, so either way you’re holding him back.) Plus, Duncan’s got no trade value either. Apart from DFAing him, what else can you do? Not a lot of good options.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 27, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

MdRedbirdFreak well said

That is what I was trying to get at. Duncan is in a tough spot right now because if you face RHP Ank & Lud have to play and Skippy should be playing, so unless Lud or Ank need a night off Dunc is not going to get a lot of shots at digging himself out of a hole.

I guess you could send him to AAA but maybe there is talk of Mather learing to play a bit more IB and in that Case you probably want Mather playing rahter than Dunc playing all the time…..

Dunc has not been the same since the hernia issue and I wonder if he played hurt too long and really messed himself up…

Who knows I hope Dunc comes out of his funk. He is not tradeable and really at this point he will be taking a roster spot but he will not be playing and whats the point of Mather or Stavi riding the pine along with RHB Barton.

by ICbirdfan on Jun 27, 2008 3:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can't you also read it as...

If he doesn’t produce at the ML level he is at risk for a DFA? That is how I read it. If they don’t want to send him down, and they can’t trade him. isn’t that the logical step?
So I am not sure if I am agreeing with you or not.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 27, 2008 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not saying he is good but don't just jump the gun........

Who knows? maybe they want to give mather more time at 1B in Memphis, hell maybe he said that but they plan on sending Dunc down after the Royals series as the Royals have a bunch of RHP…....

I don’t know I just don’t think there is a reason to get after Mo unless you are some insider who knows more than the rest of us.

by ICbirdfan on Jun 27, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow! Just wow......

Well, I guess we know who the boss is. Mr. Mozeliak, give back your check!

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 27, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why?

Because it is impossible that Mo actually thinks that is the right decision?

by SoonerfanTU on Jun 27, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If he does, I have to question his evaluating skills......

Duncan was awful in the spring, awful in Memphis, and awful since his return from Memphis. He’s been sapped of his power since the middle of last year. Without the power, he is of little use to us…..

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 27, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

release him

and play Reyes?

by chuckb on Jun 27, 2008 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Umm....I don't think I said anything like that.

I stand by my comment that Duncan in his current state is of little use to us—and I’m baffled by the decision. I really don’t see the reasoning behind it. He clearly needs to go work on his swing. Memphis seems logical to me, the ML does not.

Mr. Reyes should have been traded out of spring training. I have stated that many, many times. It makes no sense to keep him around.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 27, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not the "Duncan needs to play every day

in Memphis” argument I have trouble with. There’s some logic to that. It’s the “Give back your check, Mr. Mo; we know who the real boss is” argument that is, besides being baseless, simply a screed intended to denigrate others. These sorts of comments fit the profile of Cards Talk, but (at least they didn’t use to - they seem to have come to fit the profile over here) don’t fit the profile here. It’s a nothing argument - completely unsupported by any facts or basis in reality.

To date, I’ve yet to read a cogent argument from anyone thinks that Duncan should be banished to Memphis as to who should be recalled in his place. Who would be better? Mather and Rasmus—no, for reasons I’ve explained below. Stavinoha’s no better and he’s already on the roster anyway. Who then? Jon Jay? He’s not even at AAA yet. People are angry that Duncan, a player for whom they used to have high expectations, isn’t meeting them and they want blood and that seems to be where comments like these come from.

Mo—you’ve lost credibility! Give back your check and quit being LaRussa’s lackey! Comments like those are completely baseless, but even if they weren’t, are totally unsupported by anything in your little screed.

by chuckb on Jun 27, 2008 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay. Perhaps my comments are unfair.

How about if I just say I’m not very happy with several of his last roster moves. And something is clearly wrong with Chris Duncan’s swing.

The former is MY OPINION. The latter can be seen by watching Duncan swing and at looking at the stats. The power is gone. I don’t know where, but it’s gone, and has been for awhile.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 27, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i can't believe I am saying this

but Dunc has only been a plus for his defense at first base in APu’s absence. Does any one really want to make an argument that he has been adequate offensively? If someone can actually make that case I will be sold.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 27, 2008 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mo lost credibility

b/c he expects Duncan to sink or swim at the big league level? You’ve got a low tolerance for others, sounds like to me. That’s not an unreasonable expectation at all. He’s 27, blocked at 1st, and among a large group of people who do now and will soon contribute at the major league level in the OF. Why is it unreasonable to say that it’s time to contribute w/ St. Louis?

Does it really make sense for Mather to come up to the club and play once or twice a week? In my mind, Mather needs to play—that means keeping him at Memphis for the time being or was his short stint with the club so fantastic that it erased all doubt that he would be better than Duncan?

Who should be called up to replace Duncan? Rasmus? Call up Rasmus and have him play once or twice a week? Bad idea. He also needs to play. When he’s called up, the team should be ready to play him every day.

There’s no question that Duncan’s been a disappointment but there are no immediate better options at Memphis right now. I realize there are those who want to punish Duncan for playing so poorly the past year but making the decision that he’s going to have to sink or swim at the major league level hardly means that “he is in the palm of TLR and Duncan.”

He may have lost credibility w/ you b/c of this decision, but not with me. I’ll judge him on the complete body of work and this decision is, at worst, defensible and probably the right move to make.

by chuckb on Jun 27, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Mo is in a tough spot for sure

but at some point as the GM he needs to make tough decisions for the team. And personally I think he is just trying to keep Tony and especially Dave happy by keeping Chris on the team. If we weren’t in the position where we are contending for a wild card spot…this wouldn’t be as big of a deal. But since we ARE contenders we can’t have a guy like Chris getting so many at bats…that’s my opinion.
But the origanization is extremely loyal to Tony and his crew and this is the situation that it is …so I guess we’ll just have to live with it.

Although I will say this…Mo & Tony are lucky they are in a small media market, because if they were in NY, Boston, Chicago, ect. there is no way they could keep Chris on the team because the media pressure would be big on this. They can get away with it in St. Louis and it’s just something we as fans will have to suck up and deal with.

by KYCards on Jun 27, 2008 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keep in mind

they DID send him to Memphis. He only got recalled once Pujols got injured.

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was watching the game

When Pujols got hurt. The announcers said Duncan was already coming up to the show before Pujols got hurt.

Not sure what to make of the Duncan Drama….. just know I want a better batter than him right now.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 27, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Let's DFA (sarcasm)

Could you believe it? In the last 14 days, he has struck out 13 times, grounded into 3 double plays, and posted 0.133/0.231/0.178. Let’s DFA him.

Wait, that’s Ludwick and not Duncan. But Duncan’s not doing much better, though 0.167/0.25/0.194. I know it’s been painful, so I should really not joke about it. But I agree with the statement about “low tolerance” with Duncan. Maybe it’s because I still remember Duncan taking critical walks infront of Pujols or him mashing hr’s. Or maybe I am holding on to a fleeting hope that we could get some value out of Duncan. But I am not ready to give up on him, yet.

I respect your opinion on LaDunc’s role in this. But my opinion is that it’s not too healthy or fair to accuse LaDunc of nepotism. There are plenty of TLR decisions that I disagree with (e.g. MIF), but insinuating that decisions are made beyond baseball factors is, IMHO, a bit unproductive.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Jun 27, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

KYCards.............

What are you talking about??? May I ask….......

Was Dave Duncan mad when Chris went to Memphis and the Cards were playing well with Mather in the line up?

I think it’s ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOS to say that Mo gives a shit about Dave being happy about his kid being around…......

Sorry Houstoncardinal addressed post’s like this in this exact thread….... It adds nothing to make statements like you did about Tony and Dave being happy, I guess you know them?

by ICbirdfan on Jun 27, 2008 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

to be fair

Berie reported that TLR agreed to let Duncan go to memphis for a pre-arranged number of days, 10 IIRC, and that he was on his way back up even before Pujols got hurt. I don’t think this is about nepotism, but it could certainly be seen that way.

"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN

by SleepyCA on Jun 27, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Apparently Mo does give a shit

he had to call a special meeting about Chris with Dave and Tony and originally it was said that Chris WOULD NOT be sent down to Memphis, only to later say that he would actually be demoted.

We later find out that it was only for an agreed upon amount of days, which is more than likely what was decided during the meeting.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 27, 2008 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Once again

if they’re going to send him down, who do they recall? Who is obviously better than Duncan right now? I really like Mather but he was hardly the savior and, I believe, he needs to play every day - not once or twice a week. Rasmus - would be better but should play every day—not a couple times a week. So who then? In Mo’s weak-kneed effort to placate Tony and Duncan, who should Mo put on the team when he sends Duncan to Memphis?

by chuckb on Jun 27, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mather

if we are going to have a big strong OF/1B that may or may not actually hit the ball, let’s atleast get the more athletic/better defender of the two.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 27, 2008 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

less amazing than Duncan?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 27, 2008 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why bring Mather up and give him no real AB's

His best bet is to play at AAA get consistent AB’s and improve…....

Why let him rot on the bench like Barton…. I think Chris is going to start to rot on the bench as well…...

I am not really trying to compare Dunc to Mather…. I am saying I would rather have Duncan not play than Mather not play.

Why don’t people understand this simple situation. I don’t get it.

by ICbirdfan on Jun 28, 2008 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I understand what you are saying

but the point I was trying to make is that Duncan hasn’t been rotting on the bench in Albert’s absence, he was starting almost every game. There are those of us who think more production could have been had by giving Mather those ABs.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 28, 2008 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree

Dunc was probably starting more often due to the RHP and the whole DH being an extra spot to get a hitter in at…

I think when Dunc was called up Mather was having back issues, I think there might have been a chance had Mather had more 1B history or healthy.

I think Mather looked pretty good despite his .692 OPS….....

At this point I just don’t really think Mather should come up to get used occasionally. I don’t think TLR would have used him against RHP so he comes up and misses a few starts. I did not think Stavinoha was very good to be honest.

by ICbirdfan on Jun 28, 2008 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cards need a LH power bat.....

Colby anyone? but Colby would need to play every day if he were to come up.

Duncan’s real issue earlier was the fact that he had zero power. Heck Duncan had a .380 OBP at one point and when he was slumping his OBP was still .356 and it’s at .328 now which is not good but is not far off some players. Duncan’s current SLG is .339 which is not good!

Mather was brought up to hit for power as he had about 10-11 HR at the time of his call up. Well Mather comes up and in his time here (I knows it’s a small sample size but….) .341 OBP and a .343 SLB which is not good!

So Duncan’s replacement must be a slugger as Duncan’s real issue early was his lack of slugging, hell he was getting on base at a good level.

Mather just did not come tear the cover off the ball to be honest. Heck after watching Brian Barton roll/flip his wrists and the way the ball jumps off his bat he gets short changed on power. Barton just does not have the HR totals because he is a line drive hitter.

by ICbirdfan on Jun 28, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder if the thing with his Duncan's brother

enters into it. Shelly just got DFA’ed from the Yankees. Maybe it’s just too much for the Duncan household to handle to have two non-major leaguers at once.

RIdiculous, yes. But so is the GM taking orders from the pitching coach.

by Red in Chicago on Jun 27, 2008 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Duncans been here....

a year and a half not being amazing, andd he actually bats frequently as opposed to Mathers 11 days to prove his greatness. Tough spot for Barton as we know too.

by cardschinmusic on Jun 28, 2008 8:41 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the cardinals might not

need to recoup their investment on Mulder, but I bought his t-shirt so he better come back and be good, or else i wasted $30 i could have spent on beer.

by barry whiteteeth on Jun 27, 2008 12:51 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

You think that's bad

The Cardinals could have gotten a dozen Maple Prairie Sticks bats for him.

by Red in Chicago on Jun 27, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

maple bats

they’d just end up injuring somebody else, because i hear they spontaneously explode when touched.

by barry whiteteeth on Jun 27, 2008 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very intertaining Azru and insightful

It was thought by everyone in baseball that the Cards were in a rebuild year. I haven’t a question in my mind nor do I see any evidence that this is not true. The fast start has created challenges for the front office as they continue with this rebuilding project. How do we continue with the rebuild and also capitalize financially on the “entertainment value” of the 2008 team. This is what your seeing. ................... There is no logic in the moves being made, save to create fertile trade scenarios…................ Duncan, Mulder, Izzy…... these are not baseball decisions, but simply delaying tactics, Soap opera for the faithful….....40 thousand plus on Tuesday at the park. The success of this team is just an unexpected financial boon for the owners, nothing more. In todays market it is a challenge to bring together “winning combinations” of players without spending all the profits…......... No GM in there right mind would continue with the Chris Duncan fiasco, or reintroduce Mulder at such an inauspicious time, or destabilize a functioning bull pen by reintroducing Izzy…..... Denial can be a cruel mistress to those that try to infer logic where none exists.

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jun 27, 2008 1:12 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Agree about how success has been a happy accident

And the success so far this year has delayed any house-cleaning Mo might have intended to do.

I do disagree about how reintroducing Izzy “destabilizes a functioning bullpen.” I would argue that it is right now at its most unstable and dysfunctional. Izzy has had two solid outings recently, and that is probably good enough in TLR’s mind to reinstall his main man as the #1 reliever. Franklin’s blown save yesterday might have sealed the deal. I think we’ll see Izzy back as the closer in July.

by lightbulb on Jun 27, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

LaRussa won't put him in as the closer

until he can prove he’s not going to walk the bases loaded. His return has been up and down, but it by no means destabilized the bullpen. Randy Flores and Mike Parisi have done a smash up job of that, as well as having help from Chris Perez and Ron Villone.

Ryan Franklin is the least of this bullpen’s worries.

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Franklin is the least of our worries?

Is that why we always need to down several Franklins whenever he comes in?

by lightbulb on Jun 27, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't

and I don’t get too worried over a relief pitcher who has as many outings and innings as he does while sporting a sub 3.00 era. And the whole “Franklins” thing stemmed from one bad outing at the beginning of the year and people on here thought it was clever.

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 2:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ERA, SchmERA

The ERA (which has steadily been on the rise since June 1) is all he has going for him.

His K/9, K/BB ratio, and WHIP are all on the wrong side of average.

Franklin Graphs on Fanpages

by lightbulb on Jun 27, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right

his numbers have all gone up since being put into the closer’s role. He is not a closer, he is filling in because no one on the roster is a closer. Tell me how that is such a horrible thing. Please.

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ERA

should never be given much leverage when talking about relievers. Half the time any earned runs given up are charged to the previous pitcher.
People kept bringing up Flores’ 0.00 ERA early in the season and seemed to ignore the inherited runners allowed to score.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 27, 2008 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, it wasn't just one bad outing

go back through the gamelogs.
He has neither been great or piss poor, but he has been severely nerve racking.

It was very clever though.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 27, 2008 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it has nothing to do with Izzy's

success. It has everything to do with how the rookies perceive there rolls. Perez bottomed out, Franklin lost the lord of the roost status. Odd man out Flores collapses. KMac flounders from confused usage.
Springer does fine because he is secure and this means less work…........... The fragility of the minds of pitchers is legendary…......... The Izzy / Duncan debacle has undermined the whole team.

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jun 27, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Undermining the team

Think I disagree a bit with your last point.
I wouldn’t say the Izzy debacle undermined the whole team – removing Izzy from the closer role helped at least a little bit because wouldn’t worry as much about blowing the game. Maybe now that he’s pitched well (zero runs given up in 5 of 6 appearances) the team feels a little more confident about his abilities?

As for Chris Duncan, got no clue as to how that’s affected the team. My guess would be that it hasn’t done all that much b/c we’ve been strong in the outfield when he’s not there.

by lightbulb on Jun 27, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This team is short productive players

they have 25 spots and everyone is important. I like Izzy, he could help the team…....but it doesn’t appear to be that way…........What if Perez doesn’t recover his swagger….....huge loss. Every time Izzy goes out its a circus sideshow….....great entertainment, but the team is going down in flames…............ Albert is so great….......so great he sucks the testosterone right out of the shriveling sacks of Luddy and Glaus. We need a strong charismatic player to balance out the Super Star effect of Pujols, maybe get a few RBi which wouldn’t hurt. Not much news about Welly’s arm today….... thats interesting…..yah think.

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jun 27, 2008 2:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great plan

I’ll get on it pronto!

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Buck up, westcoast

short on productive players…...long on Grit!!
:-)

by random on Jun 27, 2008 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yet again

???
C’mon. if you are going to make these kind of statements, at least try to back them up at least occasionally.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 27, 2008 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mulder's Rehab assignment has time

I believe the 30 day clock started ticking with his June 14th appearance at Springfield.

OTOH, decision time is coming Monday on Matt Clement when the clock ends for his 30 day rehab assignment. He did pitch for Memphis on June 24 for one inning 15 pitches 10 strikes, one bunt hit, one SO, no BB and one wild pitch.

by ubeddie on Jun 27, 2008 1:20 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Clement may be better than Parisi

in long relief/mopup duty out of the pen. If they go that route and send Parisi down, it’ll be interesting to see how it turns out. OTOH, it wouldn’t hurt my feelings if they released him outright and went w/ Parisi. At least Parisi can get it up there faster than 85 and might have a future in the organization. I’ve seen nothing that indicates that Clement can get major league hitters out.

by chuckb on Jun 27, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno

A soft-tossing righty? Any of those except Maddux still around?

by Red in Chicago on Jun 27, 2008 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The thing is that if Mark Mulder is pitching pain free

with low 90’s velocity, it behooves the Cardinals to give him atleast 1, maybe 2 starts. This assumes that his shoulder is actually healthy and he isn’t fatiguing quickly (his last Memphis start gave no indication he was).

It just seems silly to give up on Mulder NOW that he is on the cusp of actually returning and possibly contributing. Making the argument of ‘not giving away games’ just doesn’t work because they’ve already been giving games away every time Mike Parisi comes in. They gave games away when they stubbornly stood by Izzy earlier this year when he was blowing harder than a Wrigley Field wind.

It is a sad state of affairs when Mitchell “Here, take that 7 run lead back, I want you to have it’ Boggs is considered a ‘good’ option. I’m all for giving Jamie Garcia a chance in place of Mulder. Last night he threw a gem, but his previous two outings were plagued with control issues. At the time Mulder made his last rehab start, Garcia had just had an awful outing (even worse than Muldoo’s).

Give Mulder 2 starts to see what he has left. If it’s nothing, dump Flores and make Mulder a LOOGY. If he has something left, let him start until Wainwright gets back and then make a decision. It buys you time in the future with Garcia.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 27, 2008 1:43 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

well, i totally agree

with you that we have given some away this year by making ridiculous and foolish decisions. But sending Mulder out there now would be an even MORE foolish decision, because we’ve seen him fail at AAA; until he shows conclusively that he can get people out, he has no business pitching at the big league level.

Throwing Mulder out there over and over in 2006 almost cost us the division. If we waste a game now, it may cost us the wild card. I’ll be very upset if that happens.

"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN

by SleepyCA on Jun 27, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

and that's awesome

hopefully the next one will, too.

"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN

by SleepyCA on Jun 27, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

García is not on the 40 man

and Mulder is. At the minimum, why not see if Mulder can work as a LOOGY? Sure, he’d be absurdly overpaid for that role, but he’s going to get his money regardless. It’s not like Flores and Villone have been destroying the world with their mad skills.

Why not activate Mulder for Stavinoha/Duncan, and see if Mulder can get lefties out. Maybe if he is completely shutdown, we give him a chance to start later in the season.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jun 27, 2008 1:55 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Villone has been pretty effective with lefties

I think it’s already been pointed out here before.

by saladdays on Jun 27, 2008 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You got to wonder

how long it would take for him to get loose out of the pen now.

Well who the hell can see forever?

by Alxfritz on Jun 27, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

OK, I have to ask

For too long now I have been reading LOOGY and either pretending I know what it stands for or sorta filling in around it in the sentence. Kinda like when I come across some of the nautical terms in Patrick O’Brian’s books.

What is LOOGY? he asks sheepishly.

by Youneverknow on Jun 27, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Left-handed One-Out GuY.

And when you’re reading O’Brien, I recommend buying a copy of A SEA OF WORDS, a glossary of nautical terms that was published especially for readers of the O’Brien books. It’s a fascinating book in its own right.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 27, 2008 3:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think it's a play on LOOG

or a Left-handed One Out Guy. took me forever too.

by mattybobo on Jun 27, 2008 3:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

actually it isn'y

you just have to look at the gu(y) part being the Y. Otherwise…spot on!

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 27, 2008 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and if you come across the term ROOGY.....

That means Chad Bradford.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 27, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes

most likely lineup has Duncan at 1st base batting 7th….....or God save us batting 2nd which is a LaRusa possibility. Kennedy at second. Standard outfield Lud, Ank and Shu

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jun 27, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He damn well better

be! He shouldn’t play 1st until the Mets series or else you and me, let’s ice TLR.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 27, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lets do it!!!!!!!

His leg will be sore but he will hit with the expectation of base running help. He is a super hero…

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jun 27, 2008 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

good stuff az

i’m all for dumping marky mark, but i get that the Cards want to see some return for the $13Mil they flushed down the toilet. i would hope if they do indeed put in him the rotation, and he’s ineffective, that he’s not there more than 2 starts. but with Tony & Dave, youneverknow.

I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!

by gdm426 on Jun 27, 2008 4:34 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

what source is this from?

the same one who told you Lohse was getting signed?

by enoscountry on Jun 27, 2008 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Probably the fact

that La Russa, Dave, and Weinberg were talking to Izzy on the mound before his inning, then he limped while he was walking.

Well who the hell can see forever?

by Alxfritz on Jun 27, 2008 4:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

don't help WCBW out

WCBW’ s got somebody on the inside (of some of relation to Lohse), but always professes to only being a “fan” or suddenly having mental epiphanies (“i understand”).

Not that I got something against internet personas of secrecy, just it’s fun to ask.

by enoscountry on Jun 27, 2008 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1 on the subject line

-1 on the rest

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 27, 2008 10:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lineups tonight, per bernie

Schumaker
Ludwick
Pujols (dh)
Ankiel
Glaus
Duncan (1b)
Molina
Kennedy
Miles

DeJesus
Aviles
Gordon
Guillen
Grudzielanek
Teahen
Buck
Gload
Gathright

Thats a whole lot of lefties

Well who the hell can see forever?

by Alxfritz on Jun 27, 2008 5:06 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good lineup

Time to repay them for that sweep.

by liam on Jun 27, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scratch that

Miles at short? Yeeeaaargghh!

by liam on Jun 27, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Id rather have a

“Whaaaaaaawp whaaaaaaaap whaaaaaaa” sound

Well who the hell can see forever?

by Alxfritz on Jun 27, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I got that too

link

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jun 27, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perfect

Thank you!

Well who the hell can see forever?

by Alxfritz on Jun 27, 2008 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lineup

Thank you El Hombre for returning and restoring that magic 2 spot again. May that be the panacea for El Hombrecito (Ludwick).

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Jun 27, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

the panacea for a little hombre

Didn’t Rafael Palmeiro used to make commercials for that stuff?

by random on Jun 27, 2008 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh Man

I hope no one thought I was going that there. And Rafi was on more than that stuff, as we’all found out.

I hope I was clear in calling Ludwick “El Hombrecito” because he has put up Pujols numbers for most of the season. Luddy needs to be in the all star game.

born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red

by totalloser on Jun 27, 2008 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to worry! I'm the one who gave the wrong impression

Just a smartass attempt at humor at Palmeiro’s expense. I doubt anyone would mistake your comment for a put down of Ludwick.

I’m a little worried about Hombrecito’s last few weeks, but really do think he belongs in lineup every day. Players who overcome severe setbacks in the minors to make the bigs have to be real jerks not to have my admiration, and I hope I save my cuts for the liars and cheats…and of course the occasional Cub because that’s tradition :-)

by random on Jun 29, 2008 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sox Up...

4-0 bottom of the 3rd.

by launchshuttle on Jun 27, 2008 5:09 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Anybody else watching the game on gameday?

Some of the ball/strike calls for both teams have been laughable… what is with the umps this year?

by FredbirdisaDork on Jun 27, 2008 5:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am pretty sure they are just calling it in

can anyone recall umpiring this shitty ?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 27, 2008 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Make it 8-0

Atta boy Swisher

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jun 27, 2008 5:15 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

dear nick swisher

i apologize for underestimating your baseball playing capabilities in the off-season.

"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN

by SleepyCA on Jun 27, 2008 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

This would be a good time for us to get hot

because the Cubs are starting a 10 game road trip…and they are not the same team on the road as they are in Wrigley because they can’t get as many “cheap” basket HRs in other parks.

by KYCards on Jun 27, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ernie Banks

hit a grand total of 6 HRs into the basket. But thanks for that CardFan analysis.

Tinker to Evers to Chance.

by Matt Allison on Jun 27, 2008 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

funny

I didn’t even have to go to BCB to get the response I was looking for.

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The cubs this year, OTOH, have hit 22

What a joke of a ballpark.

"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN

by SleepyCA on Jun 27, 2008 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The basket is still up there

when the other team bats, guy. lol

Tinker to Evers to Chance.

by Matt Allison on Jun 27, 2008 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

whenever someone says "guy" like that

I can’t help but think of the nerdy grocery clerk in Repo Man… the dude who was the inspiration for napoleon dynamite…

“There’s f’ing room to move as a fry cook, guy. I could be manager in two years. King. God. “

"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN

by SleepyCA on Jun 27, 2008 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

there is nothing that pisses me off more than being called guy

nothing! Anybody with me?

Obviously I don’t get seriously pissed off very often.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 27, 2008 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Trade Rumors reports

Every “contending team but the Cardinals” has checked in with Cleveland on Sabathia.

For what it’s worth.

by Red in Chicago on Jun 27, 2008 5:22 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Darn. I like Sabathia.......

I have a feeling that he ends up staying in Cleveland when all is said and done. But if the Cubs get him, we’re cooked….....

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 27, 2008 5:24 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who wouldn't like C.C

but who really thinks it is a good idea to give up what it would take to get him?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 27, 2008 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not suprising...we are not going to trade for any impact players

that will cost us a lot of money in the near future, especially pitchers. I think DeWitt has put a “cap” on the team’s budget…..at least that is what it seems.

by KYCards on Jun 27, 2008 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Doubt the problem is money

More likely it’s about the Cards prospects and not wanting to part with them for a short term fix.

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 27, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Length of new contract

is also part of the problem. If Sabathia wants 7 years i doubt the cards would offer that many.

by njnick on Jun 27, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't want to either

Big contracts to pitchers has worked to well for us lately.

by KYCards on Jun 27, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Big contracts to pitchers

ever work out for anybody?

Don’t give me Maddux either. He is the exception to the rule.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 27, 2008 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

FWIW

Strauss reported yesterday in his chat that sabathia was high on Mo’s list of targets. I’m strangely comfortable with that, as long as rasmus and todd and garcia aren’t included…

"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN

by SleepyCA on Jun 27, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

exact quote:

Joe Strauss: The Cubs are very interested in Sabathia… Apparently so, too, are the Cardinals. The arms race between the two the next month will be very interesting…

"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN

by SleepyCA on Jun 27, 2008 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if the cards want him he is theirs.

The cubs do not have the talent to offer the Indians as do the cards.

by njnick on Jun 27, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, the Brewers

have a lot of talent in the system as well.

by Red in Chicago on Jun 27, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

I assumed njnick meant if it comes down between the Cards and cubs. Cause, if you opened it up further, Tampa Bay and Boston kick our ass too.

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, if the Brewers want him, they'd be tough to top.

They seem to grow home run hitters at will…...they have a bunch of talent that would fit nicely with Cleveland. Because my guess is they don’t re sign Sheets, then install Sabathia as their top of rotation guy. That would leave them with Sabathia, Suppan, and fill in the blanks from their farm/current rotation for next year.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 27, 2008 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i like this quote also:

“I anticipate the team will investigate rentals like Randy Wolf and C.C. Sabathia and perhaps Erik Bedard, who has done a fantastic job of underperforming while alienating the entire population of Seattle.”

A buy-low on bedard would be awesome as well. Heck, let’s get them both.

"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN

by SleepyCA on Jun 27, 2008 5:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I hope

Mo’s targetting CC in FA during the offseason. CC + WW heading our rotation has a nice ring to it.

by hex706f726368 on Jun 27, 2008 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It won't happen

We’re not giving him Zito money, and that’s what someone is going to do. Plus, the 5-plus year deals just aren’t something the ownership group likes.

by Red in Chicago on Jun 27, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Everyone thinks the Zito and Johan deals

will hurt C.C. but I don’t think they will. Never underestimate someone with a lot of money realy overpaying for something they want.

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That actually makes me happy

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy and Randy Flores!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jun 27, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

give cc a 100 mil

and you will come to know the true meaning of “Obese”. His background and education is all wrong for long term. Cleveland knows what he is worth, and they are having a a hard time paying him what the market might….....

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jun 27, 2008 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So now

C.C. is fat, lazy AND dumb.

Anyone one to include ugly?

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stop it now. Please. WCBW

Sabathia is indeed a large human being. His parents are large human beings. He has been a terrific athlete his whole life. He is still a well conditioned athlete. He sure seems articulate enough to me. I’d assume he’s no dumber or smarter than most athletes.

I would never say ugly—he’s cute. All power leftys are very cute to me….....

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 27, 2008 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jill

I like CC. I’ve watched him since his rookie year. The Indians ponied up a 1 million $ bonus so his mom could come live with him because things weren’t going well. My point is, the Redsox had a 3million dollar stipulation on Schillings contract over playing weight. How do you take a guy who is so unorthodox, and emotional, and hook him up for 7 years. He was getting torn up in April this year. Nothing personal here. I’m not into that. I’m just saying I would get involved in that if I were a GM.

Westcoastbirdwatcher

by westcoastbirdwatcher on Jun 27, 2008 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, now I feel better

I still wouldn’t automatically pass.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 27, 2008 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

There isn't a pitcher out there I'd give 7 years to

4 or 5 year deals for pitchers make me cringe. The lifespan is just too unpredictable and performance to hard to project out past the next year or ywo.

by Merry CRasmus on Jun 27, 2008 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well, if we pay him $100M

he could easily afford to go to JeffCo in the off-season to work on whatever bits of his education are lacking. Just put it in the fine print, right?

heck we could probably give him a scholarship.

"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN

by SleepyCA on Jun 27, 2008 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

education?

that is crossing the line over into racism? Dude, please start trying to be better than this.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 27, 2008 11:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

According to Rick Hummel

via Olney’s blog, the cards have already blown 19 saves. Wow, i didnt think it was nearly that many. depression…....

by njnick on Jun 27, 2008 5:28 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

True...

But how many resulted in a loss? I read that they were something like 38-10 when leading after the 7th or 8th

by FredbirdisaDork on Jun 27, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I dont know

does it matter though? the cards bullpen is not holding leads.

by njnick on Jun 27, 2008 5:33 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It's cool

All I’m saying that is if they had blown 19 saves and it resulted in 19 losses wouldn’t that be worse? I guess I don’t know what is average for losses which were the result of blown saves over the course of a season. I’m glad that they are figuring this stuff out now before its too late. Maybe I’m too much of an optimist

by FredbirdisaDork on Jun 27, 2008 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No you're not

I understand you completely.

by saladdays on Jun 27, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i understand

him as well. I guess my ultimate point is instead of looking at Sabathia, Bedard, etc. we should be looking at a glaring weakness – the back end of the bullpen. I dont know who is available but it would most likely be less costly in terms of propects and money and may be of equal value to adding a frontline starter.

by njnick on Jun 27, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If we

won 15 of those 19 or 13 or 12 or whatever. Is it sustainable? I would guess not.

by njnick on Jun 27, 2008 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

19 blown saves

seems alarming no matter if they won the games or not. I wouldnt want to bank on winning games after giving up a lead in the 9th inning. I dont think that is a recipe for success.

by njnick on Jun 27, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think anyone's debating that

He was just making a point that at least we haven’t lost all those games.

by saladdays on Jun 27, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

blown saves

Those aren’t all leads lost in the 9th.

by gdowdy on Jun 27, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And in fairness, they have been given such slim leads,

there is no margin for error. It’s been like that most of the season too. Walks have been killing them lately…...I’m not saying there’s not a problem in the bullpen, especially lately, but it’s a lot to expect perfection every night.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 27, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

speaking of not holding leads,

wow, the yankees’ bullpen is AWFUL

e'rebuilding mang

by nycbirdo on Jun 27, 2008 5:37 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

breaking news

bernie reporting

izzy dl
mulder activated
Brad thompson on the way up
no word on the other transaction

Cubs blow

by Where is that Juan guy on Jun 27, 2008 5:39 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

yikes!

Izzy’s on the DL and Mulder’s on the roster. WTF?

Have we reached some sort of nexxus in the universe?

Is this where 1st street intersects 1st?

by chuckb on Jun 27, 2008 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Help me out

Flores on DL.
Izzy on DL.
Parisi down.
Mulder up.
So Thompson up.
Who’s the last guy brought up?

by Red in Chicago on Jun 27, 2008 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pujols

when Flores went to DL

by TNTinCO on Jun 27, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Um, we used to have 1st & 1st here

Before they renamed one of them for Cesar Chavez. They don’t say “keep Austin weird” for nothing.

by random on Jun 27, 2008 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

hah, man i had friends that lived on 6th street...

unfortunately, not that 6th street, the North to South one.

by longhornscardinals on Jun 27, 2008 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, westcoast

you’re freaking me out, man.

by random on Jun 27, 2008 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mulder

Oh boy. No way he can be on the active roster – we must have just “activated” him to batting practice pitcher. That’s gotta be it.

by lightbulb on Jun 27, 2008 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just heard on 1380AM

Mulder activated, Parisi sent down

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 27, 2008 5:40 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Yay!!!!!

No offense to Mike Parisi… but I think that I could have pitched better than him… (according to the gun at busch III I can bring the heat at 63mph)

by FredbirdisaDork on Jun 27, 2008 5:41 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

if it's a knuckle ball

Maybe you could make something out of it?

by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 27, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No its not the Knuckler

However, I can throw a nasty knuckle ball with a wiffle ball though

by FredbirdisaDork on Jun 27, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ok ok I take that back

He can pitch better than me… I honestly think that Mike P. was just not ready

by FredbirdisaDork on Jun 27, 2008 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Honestly

I don’t think he ever will be ready.

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thats funny you mention that

I was at the game where miles pitched against philly… I was kinda dissapointed that he threw harder than me :)

by FredbirdisaDork on Jun 27, 2008 5:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haha

I say the game last year and I was sitting front row behind home plate for it.

Yes I stayed that whole game

Cubs blow

by Where is that Juan guy on Jun 27, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

We stayed the whole game as well

I was actually concerned that the game would get rained out (I only get to a few games a year) and, looking back on it, I figure it would have been better if it was a rain out

by FredbirdisaDork on Jun 27, 2008 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Never underestimate

how hard a major leaguer can throw a baseball. Pitchers aren’t the only ones that touch 90.

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh I know

I would love it if I could throw harder than aaron miles… I love miles, but he doesn’t strike me as the most imposing person on the mound though :)

by FredbirdisaDork on Jun 27, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

the Sox just scored again

9-2

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

edmonds

no doubter. pulled.

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

it makes my heart hurt

When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?

by RosevilleRedbird on Jun 27, 2008 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am still happy for the guy......

He has had a terrific month of June. Sigh…....

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 27, 2008 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lou just said in the post game

that “Jim is struggling with the foot injury”. How long does he last?

by Tackle Box on Jun 27, 2008 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, who knows. That's a chronic foot injury. It will probaly bother him the rest of his life.

I’m still happy for the guy. I just am.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 27, 2008 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs