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Brandon Phillips

Hey I'm new. I've been lurking for a while though.

Anyway...

Pitching is always good, and given the potential instability of the rotation next season, I'd say that one of the most important goals of the offseason should be to obtain a legitimate 2-3 starter. However, the middle infield is obviously the weakest area of the Cards' lineup, and I think most would agree that if we're going to be an elite team, we need to be better at 2nd and SS. While starting pitching is crucial, the middle infield is our most pressing need and needs to be addressed before pitching.

There's been a lot of chatter around here about getting a mashing shortstop or 2nd basemen via free agency (Furcal, O. Hurdson) or trade (Brian Roberts), and those are great ideas, if not really difficult of costly to pull off.

There's been a lot more talk about getting a SS than a 2Bmen (Roberts talk aside), so I got to thinking what would second basemen would be valuable and obtainable assets for the Cardinals, and Brandon Phillips is at the top of my list. Cincinatti is dunzo, and they'll be in sale mode pretty soon if they're not already. Phillips has been an elite defender this year, hits for reasonable average (.270's), high ops (.800+; currently 5th among NL 2bmen), great speed (14 steals and 5 triples), he's only 26, and he's signed pretty cheaply (I think something like $4 million/year) through 2011, with a club option for 2012. 

It'd be cheaper (economically) to get Phillips than to chase Hudson or Furcal, and by saving the money there we would have more money to go out and get a starter in the free agent market. It would allow us to mildly satisfy two needs--weak middle infield and unstable starting rotation--instead of just super-satisfying one. In other words, Hudson, Furcal, or Uggla would be better than Phillips, and Sabathia or Sheets would be better than Phillips, but Phillips AND Harden/John Lackey/some other non-elite SP free agent would be better than getting just an elite middle infielder or elite SP. Agree/disagree? Can he even be had at the deadline?

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Checklist time!

Pretty young? Check.
Good bat? Check.
Plays 2B? Check.
Pretty good defense? Check.
Cheap? Check.

So there you go. He’s already too expensive for us. Barring Rasmus and maybe Anderson, too, Brandon Phillips isn’t coming to the Cardinals. I think we all know that Jocketty isn’t a complete moron. But wait, there’s more! Checklist #2:

In the division? Check.
Plays with a flair that borders on arrogance? Check.

Jocketty won’t be trading a premiere 2B to us. Not happening. The Reds consider themselves in competition for the next several years with their youngsters hitting the show (Bruce, Votto, Volquez, Bailey, et al), so they’re not going to swing Phillips to us. That would be silly. As for Phillips’ flair—TLR just would not handle that well. TLR likes the hard-nosed guys and Phillips is not one of those guys.

Basically, there’s zero reason to think we would want to (due to price) or even could (due to intradivisional rivalry) get Phillips from the Reds. It’s not even worth discussing.

by mojowo11 on Jun 25, 2008 3:39 PM EDT   0 recs

right

but this is really another wj failure, ie, failing to pursue him when he was a free agent., they got ak, whoopee

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!

by sportsman on Jun 26, 2008 9:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I would be astonished if the Reds made Phillips available........

Who on earth would they replace him with? I doubt Walt Jocketty would trade him to the Cardinals if he were going to let him go…...

I would love to have him though. There just isn’t a lot of good middle infield talent right now. Teams that have it have been keeping those players for themselves.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 25, 2008 3:41 PM EDT   0 recs

hey, we could offer

Adam Kennedy, straight up for Phillips. How could they pass that up???

by the Tewk on Jun 26, 2008 12:04 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

walt already did that!

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!

by sportsman on Jun 26, 2008 9:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Basically

this is a basic misunderstanding of how intelligent teams rebuild. Phillips is young, cheap, cost controlled, talented in the field and at the plate…....so why would the Reds trade him to anyone? How would that help a team trying to rebuild?

Phillips is the type of asset bad teams should be trying to acquire, not giving away.

"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols

by cardzfan24 on Jun 25, 2008 4:13 PM EDT   0 recs

Hear hear

Not to mention the guy just fits well on the Reds. He’s part of their young core: Votto, Phillips, Keppinger, Encarnacion, and Bruce. Dunn and Griffey are question marks going forward. And that’s to say nothing of the young pitching with Volquez and Cueto.

The Reds would be silly to let Phillips walk, and thus we’d have to overwhelm them in a trade, which exactly what we’re NOT doing these days.

by mojowo11 on Jun 25, 2008 4:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That...

And he’s the only right handed bat in their lineup with any kind of power outside of Encarnacion. All their other power hitters are lefties (Dunn, Griffey, Bruce, Votto).

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jun 25, 2008 11:31 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Even if the impossible did happen(and it won't),

Ownership has slotted a specific salary range for 2B(it was $3-4MM last I read), and that wouldn’t be enough to keep Phillips.

If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.

by cardsrul on Jun 25, 2008 5:01 PM EDT   0 recs

is that still true?

I kind of figured that was just a BS excuse that Wj used because he didn’t want to re-sign grudz.

"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN

by SleepyCA on Jun 25, 2008 5:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No, it isn't still true

if you believe The Mad Hungarian knows even remotely what he is talking about. The cost WAS $1 M per year in 2005, and then they believe it to be the same in 2006.

In 2007, they realized they could no longer get value for that little and were tired of the revolving door at 2B, so they gave Kennedy roughly $3.5 M per year. I still don’t think they will go much beyond $5 M per year anytime soon but they have increased the ‘slotted money’ number and with the cheaper pitching and OF they have coming up/in, they can afford to increase the funds there too.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 25, 2008 5:42 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

LOL

that’s some poor frickin timing to decide to pony up some dough

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jun 25, 2008 11:33 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Phillips is unavailble

The Reds are trying to build for the future.

1B – Votto 24
2B – Phillips 27
SS – Keppinger 28
3B – Encarnacion 25
OF- Bruce 21
OF- Dunn 28
OF- Stubbs 23

SP – Volquez 24
SP – Cueto 22
SP – Thompson 22
SP – Bailey 22

They can get 2 years of 40/40 or 30/30 potential out of Phillips for dirt cheap before he starts costing a lot of money.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 25, 2008 6:00 PM EDT   0 recs

C?

I thought they had a pretty good catching prospect in the pipeline too, or am I thinking of someone else?

Anyhow, that’s a pretty darn nice core to build around—probably the best in the division if a couple of those guys live up to their potential (Votto and Bruce).

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jun 25, 2008 11:35 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I live in the Reds' TV area, etc

just 5 miles from the AAA Louisville team (Riverbats); anyway, I can’t think of a catcher in their system who they are high on. Moreover most of the good stuff Louisville had has already been called up, altho Homer Bailey is back down again.

by the Tewk on Jun 26, 2008 12:11 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Devin Mesoraco?

That’s who you might be thinking of, fourstick. The Reds drafted him in the first round in 2007. He’s not going to be ready for a while.

by EABinSTL on Jun 26, 2008 2:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Alright word. Shot down. Just asking.

"The Mollusk" makes me want to rail LSD crystals off my friends' sternum. Rage."

by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Jun 25, 2008 8:52 PM EDT   0 recs

And per MLB trade rumors......

Mark Ellis of the A’s has asked his agent to please negotiate a deal with the A’s. He’d like to stay…..and the two sides are currently in talks.

One less second baseman to choose from….....

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 25, 2008 9:31 PM EDT   0 recs

Snoozing on Phillips in 2006

I get sick every time I see B. Phillips name. A young, toolsy switch-hitting 2B who was DFA’ed by Cleveland in 2006. Yeah, the DFA was just a gimmick to get a team to make an offer but Walt snoozed. Cincinnati pounced. They got him for a PTBNL who ended up being minor league RHP Jeff Stevens (who I don’t believe has since pitched in the majors).

by jjray on Jun 25, 2008 9:45 PM EDT   0 recs

he's not a switch-hitter

but otherwise you are right as rain.
Also, a poster above made a good point in that Tony L. would have stomach pains with Phillips… he’s too flashy… a slimmer Belliard.

by the Tewk on Jun 26, 2008 12:15 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, then Tony L would just have to suck it up......

I think it’s just a part of who Brandon Phillips is…...I don’t mind as long as he playes hard, and he does play hard.

He’s not going to be traded anyway…...

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 26, 2008 7:17 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Per MLBTR...

“Jocketty reportedly named five untouchable Reds players: Jay Bruce, Joey Votto, Edinson Volquez, Johnny Cueto, and Edwin Encarnacion.”

It was odd to not see Phillips’ name on that list, but maybe his upcoming salary increases are causing him to not be on the list (4.75 in ‘09, 6.75 in ‘10, 11 in ‘11, 12 in ‘12). It will take a truckload of prospects to get a deal done, and I really doubt that the Cardinals-Jocketty Relationship is on such good terms that a deal would get done. It’s not like Jocketty loved to keep any of the farm hands when he was here, so why would he want them now?

Would Ryan Freel be a better option for 2B for next season? He will be a lot cheaper then other options (3 mil this season and 4 mil next) and the guy just plays hard all the time (when he’s healthy-biggest issue). And since the Cardinals seem reluctant to DFA AK, he would provide a nice platoon since he has been hitting lefties at a .339 clip. He is versatile as well (plays all 3 OF, 3B, 2B), and he has good speed and is capable of swiping some bases.

Contract info from Cot’s Baseball Contracts.

by Jumsy on Jun 26, 2008 8:45 AM EDT   0 recs

Freel

He would be a great fit for the Cardinals, LaRussa loves these types of players that have high utility and play decent, although not great, defense at a number of positions. Freel doesn’t walk much, however, and his OBP is highly tied to his batting average. I think he could prosper into a decent leadoff hitter if he could just stay healthy and get regular playing time (something that isn’t going to happen in Cincy with all the good young players that they have). Well, that, and the fact that Dusty keeps leading off guys like Bruce (who would be a great 2-hole hitter) and Patterson (who should be hitting 7th or 8th when he plays.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jun 26, 2008 10:10 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Freel is an injury risk. A serious injury risk. He ends up hurt every year.

That doesn’t get better as a player ages. I say pass.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 26, 2008 11:32 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Not an everyday guy

jillsinmo is right, and in addition, Freel’s productivity wanes seriously after two or three games in a row. He’s an overpaid utilityman.

by EABinSTL on Jun 26, 2008 2:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

do the announcers hate dunn? it sure seems like the city does.

FIP > ERA, OBP > AVG

by astrostl on Jun 26, 2008 12:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Yes

At least Brennaman underappreciates Dunn. I’m a Dunn fan, but he won’t be worth the money some team is likely to give him next year.

by EABinSTL on Jun 26, 2008 2:46 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No kidding.

I like him. He’s young and still has growth in him as a player. They are harsh on him though.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 26, 2008 2:55 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Would you trade...

Rasmus and Anderson for Phillips and Harang?

by Jumsy on Jun 26, 2008 8:59 AM EDT   0 recs

NO!

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jun 26, 2008 10:07 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Phillips is a badass, we know this. Harang is a badass that throws 200+ innings every year.
Rasmus should be a badass for a long time. Anderson might get a chance to be a badass 1/7 of the time.

I think its a good question anyway.

by cd on Jun 26, 2008 10:32 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No

But neither would the Reds, I’m guessing.

I just get a bad feeling in my stomach about trading Rasmus. I don’t wanna do that.

by mojowo11 on Jun 26, 2008 10:44 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Harang is awful

right now. They’d probably pull the trigger in a heart beat.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 26, 2008 11:58 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Interesting Idea

But still very unlikely. Although the Reds may be better trade partners then people are giving them credit. Walt may harbor some ill will toward the team but Mo is his prodigy so I think he’ll take the call. It was the friction with Luhnow that forced Walt out the door. He does know our players as well as anyone outside the team, likes mid-season trades and has shown in the past he doesn’t mind trading within the division. Maybe we have some prospects he loved and wants to get into the Reds system. All that being said I still don’t see it happening.

"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin

by That's a Winner on Jun 26, 2008 11:31 AM EDT   0 recs

I cant even comprehend

what it would cost to trade for such a stud 2b from a team in the division, with our former GM (who is probably a little angry about being let go still ;-))

www.GriffinandtheGargoyles.com
www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

Dont take me seriously :-D

by jealousblues on Jun 26, 2008 5:58 PM EDT   0 recs

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