first-half highlights
by lboros on Jun 24, 2008 9:54 AM EDT
191 comments
headed for the airport this morning and a trip home after 4 days in portland --- quite a beautiful town, surprisingly reminiscent of st louis in certain ways. anyway, my writing time is limited this morning so the post’ll have to be short.
here’s a bit of news from a trustworthy source: the cards now view wainwright as being ready in no sooner than 6 weeks --- could be longer, depending on how things progress. they do expect him back before the end of the year. 6 weeks from today would place wainwright back on the mound in the first week of august . . . .
my 2c about yesterday’s discussion re brian barton. in my mind, his status has changed --- not so much because the team has a chance to make this year’s postseason, but because the organization appears to have far more depth in the outfield than any of us would have imagined at the beginning of the year. at the time barton came aboard, not many people viewed ryan ludwick or skip schumaker as meaningful parts of this team’s future, joe mather had a .700something career ops at triple A, and john jay had fallen off the prospect radar. all four of those guys have boosted their stock tremendously, joining rasmus and ankiel (and, yes, even chris duncan) as potential everyday players for 2009 and beyond. three of those guys (rasmus jay and mather) are younger than barton, who is 26 years old, and all are at least as talented. barton has obvious holes in his game; i love the speed and the attitude, but he can be overpowered by a fastball. based on what we’ve seen this year, which outfielder will move aside to create playing time for barton in 2009 --- ankiel? rasmus? ludwick? schumaker? the cards can send barton to triple A next year, but how valuable is a 27-year-old outfielder at triple A? i do think he’s a talented player, but he no longer looks like a unique talent within the organization; if the cards were to give him up, they could replace him without downgrading.
that doesn’t mean i necessarily think they should get rid of him; there isn’t (yet) a player available who would represent such an obvious improvement that it would be worth losing barton over it. but if such a player emerges from within or becomes available on the trade market, i don’t think the cards should deny themselves the improvement simply for barton’s sake. he just isn’t that good.
the cards are approaching the 81-game mark; if they split the next 4 games (a cautious assumption), they’ll arrive at the halfway point in the year with a 46-35 record. only 3 cardinal teams of the la russa era won more games in the first half of the year: the 2004-05 teams (which had 49 and 51 wins, respectively) and the 2002 team, which was 48-33. two herzog-managed teams had more than 46 wins at the turn --- the 1987 club, whose 52-29 record is the franchise’s best halfway-point mark since the schedule went to 162 games --- and the 1985 team, which hit the midway milestone at 49-32. and you’ll be surprised to know that one of joe torre’s cardinal teams, the ’93 outfit, outperformed this year’s club in the first half, with a 47-34 record. of the aforementioned teams, only one (torre’s) failed to play in october.
since we’re reaching the halfway point, i thought i’d toss out (in no particular order) my favorite moments from the first half and solicit ev’yone else’s views. as far as i’m concerned, these first 81 games have already yielded a full season’s worth of memories. here’s what i’ve got on my list, in no particular order:
- ankiel’s 17-pitch plate appearance on april 16 against carlos villanueva --- as i noted at the time, it was the longest cardinal plate appearance of the last 20 years. just in case you forgot, ankiel ended up drawing a walk.
- ankiel’s two incredible pegs from the outfield on may 6 to nail willy taveras and omar quintanilla at 3d base.
- albert’s daring dash home from 2b on a routine grounder to second base in the 9th inning of a 5-5 game on may 5 at colorado.
- the cards’ late rally from a 5-run deficit back on april 12 in san francisco against matt cain, who had a no-hitter going through 6 innings.
- pujols’ wrecking-crew trip around the bases in san diego, in which he took out the pitcher on a line drive and the catcher on a slide to the plate.
- the comeback from 7 runs down in washington, powered by a mike parisi double and a mark worrell homer. it hardly matters that the team lost the game.
- luddy’s walkoff to win a game against tampa bay on may 17.
- schumaker’s walkoff to beat the cubs on may 2.
that’s it for me this morning; i’ll be home this afternoon, game thread up shortly before the first pitch.
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Wainwright's return
That is a lot longer than anyone anticipated. That coupled with slow returns of Carpenter, Mulder (his return may be failry imminent), and Clement, and Wellmeyer’s sore elbow, and one wonders how long this team can stay close to the Cubs or remain in the race for the wild card. Currently, we have Looper, Pinero, Lohse, and Boggs (he has pitched okay, but will he hit the wall or continue to be serviceable?). We certainly seem to have our share of injuries (include Pujols, Isturis, and Molina in that mix), but I guess that is true for a lot of teams (see the Dodgers for example with A. Jones, half of their starting pitching staff, Furcal, Garciapara, et al.).
by Wahoo on Jun 24, 2008 10:24 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
my first guess was August
now i’m thinking more like Sept. Let’s hope I’m putting the reverse jinx into effect
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 24, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm on the record as a Barton fan who
wants to see him get a real chance to play, but I’m about argued out on that subject. But re your question “which outfielder will move aside to create playing time for barton in 2009 - ankiel? rasmus? ludwick? schumaker?” ... It’s not really a question of moving one of them to allow Barton to play. Instead, it’s a question of moving one or more of them to get some other parts we desperately need … better LH relief, middle infielders who have real futures, maybe a bench guy with some pop who can back up 3B and 1B. What I want to know from VEBers is where they think each of our OFs line up on the tradeable <> untouchable spectrum.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 24, 2008 10:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Schumaker...
will never be more tradeable (IMO) that he is right now. With Ankiel and Colby being LH outfielders with plus defense he probably has no future with the team…and should be arb eligible next year. He’s cheap and can play a decent CF…that has to have some value when coupled with his just over .800 OPS this season and last (.939 for June). Unfortunately he has a terrible platoon split (.442 OPS in 64 AB’s vs. LHP 16 Ks – .918 OPS in 191 AB’s vs RHP 16 Ks).
by cardzfanbub on Jun 24, 2008 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, and Luddy might be at his trade peak too.
And … would you put Ankiel into play if you had a shot at a nice MI prospect?
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 24, 2008 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd be hesitant to trade...
both Ludwick and Ankiel, as I feel they both have a place in our OF through at least 2010. I suppose either can be expendable if Mather is the real deal…but who else (besides Colby) do we have that can hit 25+ homers (and play plus defense)? I hope that Mo uses our glut of OF’ers to get something back…Schu, Lud, Ankiel, Barton, Mather, Jay, Stavinoah? and Robinson have all raised their value this half-season…unfortunately Duncan’s has plummeted (Oh how I wish we had sent him packing for something last winter).
by cardzfanbub on Jun 24, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Me too, but I think our
MI situation is dire and there’s damn little on the horizon from within the organization. Like it or not, some painful sacrifices (Luddy or Ank) might be needed in the near future.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 24, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a great idea
except there seems to be a shortage of good middle infielders around all of baseball. It seems like the only team that might have extras would be the Angels, and it’s hard to get them to give anything up. They wouldn’t want an outfielder anyway.
Texas has Kinsler on a long term deal-he’s young and probably considered untouchable. Is he blocking someone? Maybe they’d like an extra outfielder to help cover Milton Bradley’s injury/mental break days?
Look deeper in the minors for someone with undevoloped tools? It seems to be a problem baseball-wide at the moment…..
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jun 24, 2008 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
kinsler went to mizzou
in ‘03, so he might welcome the move.
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on Jun 24, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'm retarded
didn’t read the post. need… sleep…
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on Jun 24, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, yeah. Kinsler would be great. I think Texas is smarter than that.
Hey, if they’re not, I’d rather have him then whoever he’s blocking…....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jun 24, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Texas -- smart?
They’ve been getting smarter, but a couple of moves still puzzle me even though many thought they were wins for the Rangers:
1. Dealing Teixeira last year without another good option at 1B. Yah, they got back Andrus and Saltalamacchia, but Salty couldn’t win the catching job and has shown a lack of power in a dinky ballpark, and Andrus is still a couple of years away.
2. Swapping Josh Hamilton (28) for Voquez (25) when what they really needed was a good young pitcher. Everyone says this deal has worked out for both teams because each player is playing great—but Dunn or Griffey would be easier to part with for the Reds if they had Hamilton, and Volquez would give the Rangers a legit shot at winning the west had they kept Teixeira, who was still under contract for this year.
Both are good deals in terms of talent…both are terrible deals in terms of timing. With Padilla, Volquez, Millwood in their rotation I think they could easily make some noise in the AL West since the Angels are a couple of injuries (to oft injured players, no less) of coming back to the pack.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 24, 2008 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The Teixeira trade
would have made more sense if they hadn’t given up Adrian Gonzalez in the horrendous Adam Eaton/Chris Young trade the year before. Man, that trade still upsets me…
by launchshuttle on Jun 24, 2008 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Which
goes back to my point—they’re not that much smarter because they keep having to make moves to cover their asses. Think of how they’d look with a rotation of Young, Millwood, Padilla, Volquez, 5th starter and a lineup that included Teixeira at 1B, Kinsler at 2B, Young at SS, their current OF, and Gonzalez at the DH.
That might be the best team in the AL West—even better than the Angels…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 24, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Totally Agree...
Man, reading that lineup/rotation makes me sick to my stomach (as a Rangers fan).
by launchshuttle on Jun 24, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Their current outfield minus Josh Hamilton of course
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jun 24, 2008 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Rangers at 1B.
1 of these 2 will certainly be at 1B for the Rangers for the foreseeable future:
Max Ramirez (already called up) or Chris Davis (at AAA).
I think they are fine with Teixiera being gone.
As far as Texas MI’s go, they have this German Duran kid playing super-sub this year or maybe Marcus Lemon? His dad Chet was an old OF for the White Sox & Tigers who happened to teach my wife how to play gin rummy on an airplane flight from Chicago to Oakland when she was a kid..
Just saying.
Boomer.
by glamboomer on Jun 24, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
But...
they aren’t Teixeira right now, and with Volquez in the mix it’s possible that they’d be in the hunt in the AL West. Instead they have a .500 ballclub, no production from 1B so far this year, and no #1 starter on the roster….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 24, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
With Volquez and without Hamilton they'd be in the same position
That trade has had nothing to do with where they are basically. In fact I’d say as long as they babysit Hamilton, long-term it’s a better trade for them in terms of the risk pitchers vs. hitters.
Young/Gonzalez for Eaton is the reason they suck.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jun 24, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's the danger of the deadline deal...
No argument that Teixiera is a better MLB player right now & he would have certainly helped them this year.
In fact, here’s what Texas 1B have done since Teixiera was trade last July 31:
.224/.300/.351 w/ 11 HR & 51 RBI..
Teixiera?
.290/.382/.526 w/ 30 HR & 111 RBI…
Doesn’t change the fact that the Rangers have very interesting options at 1B who are almost ready. They just missed the timing by a few months. No use crying over spilled Teixiera.
And is there anyone alive who would have thought Edinson Volquez would have a sub-2.00 ERA with a 10-1 record & probably deserves to start the All-Star game?
Hindsight is always.. you know.
Boomer.
by glamboomer on Jun 24, 2008 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I personally liked the Tex trade.
However, with Volquez…he was part of the coveted DVD pitching prospects. They knew what they had (yes, they probably didn’t know he would have a sub 2.00 ERA, but still.) Why would Texas trade for a bat when they need PITCHING?! They have needed pitching for years now! Yet they go and trade Young AND Danks (to get an injured McCarthy) in 2006, then Volquez before the 2008 season. Just doesn’t make sense to me.
by launchshuttle on Jun 24, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Jon Daniels = strange man.
DVD = Danks / Volquez / Diamond
Danks ‘08 = 2.80 ERA / 1.22 WHIP / 15 GS / 24 BB / 66 K / 6 HRA (for White Sox)
Volquez ‘08 = 1.71 ERA / 1.17 WHIP / 15 GS / 45 BB / 110 K / 2 HRA (for Reds)
Diamond ‘08 = Made his first start in AA ball last night after TJ surgery… for Texas.
Looks like they kept the wrong one?
Is Daniels just incredibly unlucky or vastly incompetent?
The more I think about it, the more I think anyone received from Texas in a trade, whatever his current stats may be, will turn into an All-Star…
Trade with Texas!
Boomer.
by glamboomer on Jun 24, 2008 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think Kinsler's block anyone...
Elvis Andrus (currently in AA) is considered Texas’ best prospect. He’s a SS/2B and expected to be with the Rangers in 2010. I think their current plan is to have him replace Michael Young at SS…so MY would slide over to 2B with Kinsler DH’ing once Andrus is ready. MY and IK are signed through 2013 (well, IK has an option in 2013). I don’t think they intend to move any of these pieces any time soon (well, unless someone was willing to give them pitching, I would imagine).
by launchshuttle on Jun 24, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glad you enjoyed Portland
but you wouldn’t have said the same about ten days ago…we were in the midst of “June-u-ary;” nothing but solid rain and 50 degree temps.
I agree on Barton…I LOVE his speed…the Cards don’t really have the like anywhere close to the bigs, although Rasmus has some nice wheels
I’d add Blooper’s complete game to the list, but would have to put Ank’s two throws at the top. I was there to see them in person and the Rockies fans next to me were literally speechless. One old codger said, “Best damn throw I’ve ever seen in my life.”
Then he did it again.
by jim of beam on Jun 24, 2008 10:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I assume he's talking about PDX Oregon
I’ve been here about 7 years now and love it. I stinks that the only NL team is about 12 hours away, but you just can’t match the close nit, non-sprawl community here. Outside of the winter rain, the weather is always comfortable.
by cloistermaximus on Jun 24, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed on the Ankiel throws
I was at that game too. I was speechless as well. Completely astonished by those throws.
by TNTinCO on Jun 24, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In some ways
Given the glut of Cardinal outfielders created by what I believe are AAAA players having career years (Ludwick and Skip), the Cardinals falling out of the race because of poor starting pitching could start the wheels moving to trade these players while at a maximum value. Whether the Cards stay in it or not, this trade deadline and the accompanying off-season will be a critical time for MO. Can he make the moves that leverage this talent into even greater things?
by JMedwick on Jun 24, 2008 10:46 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Poor starting pitching?
El Pineiro’s ERA is 3.86
Lohse’s ERA is 3.63
Looper’s ERA is 4.10
Wellemeyer’s ERA is 3.67
Granted, Wellemeyer has barking in his elbow and Wainwright is going to be out until August, but we’ve received starting pitching that is in the top 10 of MLB, including three good starts vs. the vaunted Red Sox. Barring any further injuries, I don’t see us pitching our way out of contention.
by bgh on Jun 24, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
after mulders start
you’ll be able to add
Mulders 13.75 ERA to that list
by UNCDubya on Jun 24, 2008 11:25 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If he makes it
It’s all contingent on his AAA start tonight. I’m still skeptical that Mulder will get the ball this weekend in St. Louis. Yes, that is a reason for concern, though. If the team can go .500 in games started by the Wainwright replacement, we’ll be in good shape.
by bgh on Jun 24, 2008 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No AAA start
he was scratched
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jun 24, 2008 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh apparently not
read the whole thread before replying, V
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jun 24, 2008 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It's not just about Mulder
I’m sure Mo is trying to establish who’s in and who’s out for the season to see whether he needs to be a buyer or a seller of SP. You could argue one or more of Looper, Lohse and Pineiro are expendable. But you could also argue we need every guy we’ve got…plus Garcia for a couple of spot starts, perhaps.
by Red in Chicago on Jun 24, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
agreed
see what the guy can do, over 1-2 starts, and i’m leaning closer to 1 then i am to 2…if he gets shelled in his first outing against kc, let the guy lose and move on, he hasnt exactly been performing that well at other stops along the way.
i just fear he’ll get multiple starts and we’ll lose all of them, and we cant afford that.
by UNCDubya on Jun 24, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No doubt that they have been very good thus far
But add to that list the stats for the AAA pitcher who fills in for Wainwright and the possibility of decline from all of the above pitchers and pretty quickly you can envision a realistic scenario where the Cards fall out of the race due to poor SP.
By the same token you can envision the Cards falling back because Ludwick and Skippy regress.
by JMedwick on Jun 24, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mark Mulder's aborted start last night
is apparently being reborn tonight for the Redbirds. He was originally supposed to go 3 innings on Monday, so I’d imagine he is limited to 35-40 pitches tonight in his tune-up.
If he is starting tonight, it appears the Cardinals are still moving forward with plans to start him on Saturday..which ties in with Larry’s comments about Wainwright’s extended downtime.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 24, 2008 10:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Question.
Is anyone really expecting anything out of Mulder?
I mean… at this point, I just feel like having him return would just be more trouble than it’s worth..
Have I lost my mind here?
Boomer.
by glamboomer on Jun 24, 2008 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
no expectations
just some kind of random hope
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 24, 2008 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Let’s see if something is in the tank. If so, wonderful, if not, not the end of the world.
I'm actually kinda excited to see if he can provide a little spark - it'd be nice to have a feel good story (similar to Ankiel's last year) to help build upon especially after our recent rash of injuries.by joecardsfan on Jun 24, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't know what happened but...
it’d be nice to have a feel good story (similar to Ankiel’s last year) to give us a little boost right now. With the rash of injuries we have had recently, this might provide a spark.
by joecardsfan on Jun 24, 2008 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
speaking of Ank
I expect him to have a better second half offensively
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 24, 2008 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't
I think he is what he is. And for what it’s worth, he’s never dug himself out of a slump yet. Last year, he surged in August and flailed in September never correcting the trend. Then this year, he once again surged in April and has stunk in both May and June.
I think he is what he is and that’s a .250 -.270ish hitter who will hit the ball out his fair share of times due to simply running into the ball.
by Tackle Box on Jun 24, 2008 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you also have to remember
he is basically a rookie CF. Who knows what a year of seasoning will do for him. I really won’t be too upset if Rick is a .270 hitter with 25-30 bombs a year
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 24, 2008 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Another moment
I’d add Izzy’s escape artist impression on Sunday. It wasn’t pretty (or at least didn’t sound that way on the radio), but it was fun, and it gave me (probably vain) hope that he can once again be a contributor.
by Levi Stahl on Jun 24, 2008 10:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
That's a good one. How about
Kennedy’s double off Papelbon? I didn’t think he had a snowball’s chance in hell of getting on base, let alone tie the game. That was as big a surprise to me as any moment this season.
"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley
by TurdFerguson on Jun 24, 2008 11:09 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Shock and Awe
I almost turned the game off when Kennedy got the AB from TLR. I’m glad I didn’t! Who’d have ever thought he’d be able to catch up to a Papelbon fastball?
by bgh on Jun 24, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't.....I was watching with my youngest child,
and he was laughing because every pitch Papelbon threw, no one seemed to be able to do anything with it-and he kept repeating “not fair, not fair” Seriously, the last person we thought would manage to get a hit off of Papelbon was Kennedy. The last person….shows what we know.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jun 24, 2008 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I almost shit myself
I thought that AK had hit that thing out when it came off the bat. Luckily it hit the wall or I would have had to change my pants.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 24, 2008 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Enough Rick already, but...
You gotta throw in his layed out, head first sliding into the wall catch May 31st against the Bucs.
by thefutureofamerica on Jun 24, 2008 11:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Could you include the whole weekend
series against the BoSox as a single highlight of the year? This was the kind of series that can propel a team to bigger things.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 24, 2008 11:37 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget Joel's insane
foot stop of a comebacker vs the Pirates.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 24, 2008 11:45 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
For more description...
It was a grounder that Pineiro Kicksaved into the air caught, spun and threw to first to get the out. I was there and my jaw fell into my Yuengling.
by Jumsy on Jun 24, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Piniero=gold glove!
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 24, 2008 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ankiel's
Snagging the HR from over the wall.
by Evilfrog on Jun 24, 2008 11:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
27-year-old at AAA
LB asks, “how valuable is a 27-year-old outfielder at triple A?”
That shouldn’t be a rhetorical question. Just remind yourself how old Ludwick and Ankiel were at the start of 2007’s season, in AAA.
by EABinSTL on Jun 24, 2008 12:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I terms of ability
you are correct, but Larry is talking about trade valuation, and neither Ludwick nor Ankiel was worth a lot as trade bait at the start of 2007.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 24, 2008 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
True enough, but so what?
Thanks, fourstick. I missed that angle. (The paragraph in which LB asks that question includes no mention of trades.) But I don’t think that it makes much difference. My point was that Barton could be valuable as soon as August 2009 even if he starts the year in AAA. I meant valuable to the Cards but if he makes progress in 2009, why couldn’t another team want him as part of a trade? I’d rather get Barton up to full value before giving up on him, if we can do that without significant cost.
by EABinSTL on Jun 25, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Fuentes?
Didn’t want to make a fanpost for this.. Many are speculating that Fuentes will be available soon. I figured since many people will be talking about trading Skip, Lud, Jay, etc while their stock is high, I’d ask what it would take for the Cards to get Fuentes.
THE SKIP IS LEGIT!!
by stltrav09 on Jun 24, 2008 12:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would imagine half of the teams in baseball will inquire......
and yeah, the Cardinals should too. A good, versatile, relief pitcher. And did I mention he’s a lefty? By all means, pick up the phone…..
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jun 24, 2008 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Isn't he closer material, though?
If teams think he’s a closer, he’s going to get closer $$. I don’t think the budget supports $8-12 million for a Super-LOOGy. Plus, they may already have one named Mark Mulder.
by Red in Chicago on Jun 24, 2008 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He sure is.....closer +++he has done other roles too.
I have no idea what his contract situation is…....I think he can be whatever, loogy, closer, set up guy. I’m just saying he’s a very good relief pitcher and if he’s available, you check and see what they want. Even if Mulder returns. Good lefty pitchers are hard to find. I’m not saying empty the farm for him, but I see no harm in at least asking what they want.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jun 24, 2008 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
he has been good, but I do think it would take alot to get him, as one of his roles is closer – any pitcher capable of being a good closer will fetch a premium. I doubt that the rockies will blow up the team at this point though – with the d-backs now playing terribly, the NL West is wide open.
by cdb on Jun 24, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
OT: Pitching prospect
I’m sure he’s been mentioned around here before but there was a Pat Venditte sighting on rotoworld today. Today’s only “switch pitcher” caused some confusion among umpires last week when he came up against a switch hitter in the ninth inning.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkPbJV2dffI
TLR would have an orgasm with him on the roster. I imagine the guy could pitch a complete game every day if his stuff was good at the time. Right-handed, it seems his fastball tops out around 91 and is complemented by a curve. Lefty, he’s a sidearmer with a slider and slower fastball. I think he wants to be more than a novelty.
by baw on Jun 24, 2008 12:20 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
There has been one in the majors.
I want to say it was Greg Harris with Mon, but my memmory is foggy. I think he only changed sides onces in a game, the last game of the year.
I am surprised we don’t see more players try things like this, or the knuckle ball, or the screw ball, or sidearm. Basically there has to be some advantage to being different since batters won’t be used to seeing it.
by DriverZn on Jun 24, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
On the next-to-last game of his career!
Yeah, he is mentioned on Venditte’s wiki page
by baw on Jun 24, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read the Sporting News article
about Venditte. His father has been training him to be an ambidextrous pitcher literally since he was six years old. He eats, writes, etc. with both hands. He did 120 long tosses with his left and 100 with his right every day when he was growing up. If ever there were a guy who could be successful as a two-armed pitcher, this is him.
by Red in Chicago on Jun 24, 2008 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yep
I don’t know if this was the same article, but I remember reading that another thing Papa Venditte did was have Pat punt footballs with both legs. Guess that ingrains good ambidextrous footwork, which is so important for him now as a pitcher.
by baw on Jun 24, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't even want to mention...
what my left-handed throws look like. Most five year old girls would be embarrased to throw like I throw LH’d.
by cardzfanbub on Jun 24, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Amphibious
Andy Van Slyke was once quoted (paraphrasing), “Greg Harris, he’s the guy that can throw with both hands? That makes him amphibious.”
That said, the Cubs do deserve my pity, but never my support.
by Solanus on Jun 24, 2008 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
One other memory from this season...
Last game… the 13-inning threat to sweep the Red Sox at home.
by AndyB83 on Jun 24, 2008 12:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
I’d add that whole series against Boston to the memorable list
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 24, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That sentence is unbelieveable, lboros. Wow
”...they’ll arrive at the halfway point in the year with a 46-35 record. only 3 cardinal teams of the la russa era won more games in the first half of the year…”
by sdrone on Jun 24, 2008 12:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well
considering that the La Russa era is 12 years long, and seven of those clubs were first-place teams, and three of them had better records at the midway point… I think it’s pretty much in line with what we should expect to hear..
by baw on Jun 24, 2008 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Travel back to March 31
and anyone using lboros’ sentence would have been subjected to a Breathalyzer for too many Franklins. Great first half (almost) of the season and so much better than anticipated.
by ubeddie on Jun 24, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Phillies-June 15 & Stealing Home
Two more:
1. Cards 7, Phils 6 (6/15)—Yes, this is the game where Molini received a concussion and we won due to errors, but I was extremely happy to take this series against the leader in the NL East, and what a crazy game. No one likes giving up the lead on walks, but how about Reyes coming in for a win?
2. Izturis Steals Home This was a just great play. And it’s really something to see a catcher outfoxed by LaRussa.
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on Jun 24, 2008 12:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I liked the Phils 6/15 game too
You could feel the Phillies frustration through the TV screen. Awful that Molina got hurt….but he held on to the ball….take that!
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jun 24, 2008 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Glaus' grand slam
Kennedy’s HR off of Brett Myers
Ankiel robbing Adam LaRoche of a HR to straightaway CF
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jun 24, 2008 1:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Barton
What makes Barton so unique among the glut of young cardinal OFs (and why I think we should keep him) is that he is a right handed OF who is speedy. He is the only RH OF like that I can think of in the Cards system.
My days of playing RBI Baseball 93 for Sega is what got me thinking about this. The game featured 3 body types (slugger, normal, and speedster.)
Anywho a my break down of the Cardinal OF body types would be something like this
MLB
Ludwick RH Slugger
Ankiel LH Slugger/Speedy?
Schumaker LH Speedy/Normal
Duncan LH Slugger
Barton RH Speedy
AAA
Amaury Marti RH Slugger
Nick Stavinoha RH Normal/Slugger?
Colby Rasmus LH Slugger/Speedy
Joe Mather RH Slugger
AA
Shane Robinson LH Speedy
Jon Jay LH Speedy/Normal?
I know this isn’t RBI baseball, but I like the idea of having a deverse group of OFs featuring a mix of speed and power from each side of the plate. Barton is the only RH speedster we have, so I think we should keep him.
"The right-hander is throwing up in the bullpen." -Mike Shannon
by DJ87 on Jun 24, 2008 1:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
In RBI
We could just play an entire roster of Albert Pujols’ - I don’t see the need to have any other players…. 8)
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 24, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Saw the Nats game in person w/my dad
In addition to the two pitchers with key hits:
Iz2 starting three unbelieveable DPs
Joe Mather’s HR in the 10th to give the Cards the lead
Five shutout innings from the pen until Franklin’s 10th
AK’s pickoff before Glaus’ HR—the play that cost us the game :(
by gocards62 on Jun 24, 2008 1:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
"fertilizer is a good thing"
I thought it was only the current White Sox manager who made comments that upset the fan base, guess not. The former Pale Hose skipper and current Mets manger Jerry Manual, when asked about the fans booing Aaron Heilman, comes up this doosie.
“It’s very, very fertile ground for growth in Shea Stadium,” he said. “It’s fertile ground for a team’s growth and development. Sometimes, fertile ground has fertilizer.”
I would be remiss if I didn’t say something about the death of George Carlin. He was one of my favorite comedians, a true wordsmith and thinker. He made me question everything I would hear or read, and make me laugh while doing it. When I was thinking about a quote to use as my signature his name came to mind instantly. The line I use is from his album Toledo Window Box as one of the phases you will never hear anyone say. I also have always like this one “Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist.” The world has one less disappointed idealist around, but if we could get one more quote from him right now I would hope it would be “HOLY SHIT, there is an afterlife”
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on Jun 24, 2008 1:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ankiel's Got a Cannon
Here is the amazing video of Ankiel’s throws against Colorado. I still can’t believe he nailed down two runners in one game!
by MillerTime21 on Jun 24, 2008 1:43 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Keep Barton
unless you can use him in a trade to acquire a LOOGY. Someone must want to take a flyer on a player with his speed especially if Cleveland won’t make a trade with us to keep him, right?
by Jumsy on Jun 24, 2008 1:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My highlight of the year
has to be Mark Worrell’s HR.
by Phizzle on Jun 24, 2008 2:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he just LOOKED like a hitter in that AB
I hope he gets called back up and stays up for a long time, but if he doesn;t make it back to the show can we make him a position player please? A utility/reliever, the ultimate Aaron Miles!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 24, 2008 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
on Barton
I kinda expect him to stay for some reason, but I’d be surprised if Luddy or Skippy are still here after the trade season is done.
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 24, 2008 2:29 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Trade Ideas
I think they are rather realistic, although possibly unpopular.
Trade Kyle Lohse + B Prospect to the Yankees for Robinson Cano.
-The Yankees complete lack of starting pitching (with Wang done for the year) + Cano having an abysmal year, means this trade could very well be plausible. Lohse has proven this year that he can handle himself against AL East Opposition. I honestly think you could get the Yankees to bite on this.
Trade Ryan Ludwick to the Rays for Reid Brignac
-The Rays want to make the postseason this year, and their biggest hole is definitely at LF. Ludwick’s value is as high as it will ever be right now, and in my opinion, it would be a good idea to flip him for one of the better SS Prospects in the game. Brignac is definitely not an untouchable seeing as how the Rays drafted Tim Beckham first overall to be their SS of the future.
These 2 trades would shore up our middle infield for many years, and a few prospects may need to be included on our side to make them work, but you wouldn’t have to give up a Rasmus/Anderson/Garcia in either deal.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jun 24, 2008 2:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
If the Cards weren't still in contention
I’d be right there with you. I don’t see how you give up Ludwick and/OR Lohse when they’re still in solid position for the Wildcard and within reach for the division.
by punditmoi on Jun 24, 2008 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Very true
My line of thinking was:
Lohse – FA after this season, and unlikely to sign here with Boras as an agent. His value is through the roof right now and we’d be better served to flip him for Cano, who could shore up the keystone for many years.
As for Ludwick, I like the guy, but his value is so high right now, that it would hurt not to trade him. This was going to be a re-building year, and trading Ludwick would really help the future of this club. Brignac has the potential to be a legitimate stud at SS and is right on the door step of the major leagues, it’s not like he’s some kid in A Ball.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jun 24, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can you explain again why the Yankees
would want to trade Robinson Cano?
by Tackle Box on Jun 24, 2008 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
And the Rays have Crawford in left
Their hole is in right…
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jun 24, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
meant to say right, not left, sorry
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jun 24, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I saw that too
but it doesn’t really matter since Ludwick is more of a right fielder anyway. And they have a revolving door in right.
by Tackle Box on Jun 24, 2008 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Because Hank wants to make the playoffs
and Cano is struggling. I’m not saying they would do it, but I do think it’s plausible.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jun 24, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
some things you've overlooked
First, If it had been up to Hank, they would have made the Santana deal. They didn’t, and he hasn’t been lights out for the Mets yet—he hasn’t pitched bad by any means, but he’s not striking out guys at his career rate and wouldn’t be in the top 5 for the Cy Young that everyone was handing him before the season started. I think this is a win for Cashman and he may get a little more respect from The Twerp (as opposed to The Boss) because of it.
Second, the Yankees pitching isn’t all that bad right now. It just seems that way because they went out and got Ponson. Pettitte and Mussina have pitched very well for them, Joba is still getting his feet wet in the starting role but he looks legit, and Darrell Rasner hasn’t pitched bad—8 starts so far can carrying a 112 ERA+. Those top 3 are pretty talented and Rasner has been a positive so far. They still have Ian Kennedy if need be and Phil Hughes will be back late this season or early next year. He did not pitch to his ability this season, and I think the Yankees know that.
Third, they don’t have anyone to replace Cano, even with his garbage production to this point, they don’t have anybody who could step in and play decent defense while filling out the bottom of their lineup with a player who could start lighting it up at any time:
Robinson Cano: .227/.270/.325 277 AB’s
Wilson Betemit: .250/.269/.469 64 AB’s
Alberto Gonzalez: .191/.255/.234 47 AB’s
(apparently they’re so lacking in infield prospects they signed the former US Attorney General as a backup middle infielder, WHO KNEW!)
They could move Jeter to 2B, A-Rod to SS, and play Morgan Ensberg or Shelley Duncan at 3B, but that makes them much worse defensively (A-Rod hasn’t played SS in a while, Jeter would pout, and Ensberg and Duncan stink) without adding much of an offensive punch.
In conclusion, trading for Lohse doesn’t really help their pitching staff exponentially if it costs them Cano who is a career .334/.366/.540 in the second half. I think they’ll stand pat right now and hope that Joba becomes their stud and Mussina and Pettitte stay around the fountain of youth…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on Jun 24, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to nitpick
But the Yankees waived Ensberg a few weeks back and he was picked up by the Indians. He is in AAA Buffalo for the Tribe.
by joecardsfan on Jun 24, 2008 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know that they would want to trade him
but his stock with the team has dropped significantly. He’s being made the scapegoat for a lot of their losses.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 24, 2008 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Stupid reply button...
I meant to agree with Tackle Box in wondering how the Yankees would give up on Cano?
Boomer.
by glamboomer on Jun 24, 2008 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's a tough call
You definitely get a lot of value back in either of those scenarios so you’d have to think about them…but, it’s very hard to dismantle a team that’s winning and has a very good chance to make the playoffs.
Billy Beane would love this idea, but we must remember he’s never won anything. I’m torn…
by birdo rojo on Jun 24, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Memories
Sorry if someone already mentioned it, but…
In spite of the injury on the play, Yadi’s amazing PO of Bruntlett in the Philly series was certainly one of the best plays of the year.
by punditmoi on Jun 24, 2008 2:55 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The upgrade at SS/2B just has to match or excede the loss at SP/OF
As bad as our MIF has been, thats a very possible solution if our DL pitchers appears to return to form. The drop from Lud to Rasmus/Mather hurts a bit but the jump from AK to most anyone is nice and probably offsets it.
by DriverZn on Jun 24, 2008 2:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Sorry, missed “reply-to” for 2 posts up.
by DriverZn on Jun 24, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The problem with Rasmus is that
he’s going to struggle when he comes up. He does every step along the way. Then he catches fire and looks like the second coming of Willie Mays.
Trading Ludwick for a MIF that can produce THIS YEAR is highly unlikely, simply because what team is going to give that guy up and need a 30 year old run producer?
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 24, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This team cannot afford
to give up Ludwick. He offers a second threat in the lineup. He hits rights and lefts, plays reasonably decent defense—and he’s signed cheaply.
Plus, for whatever reason the team just doesn’t seem wiling to cut Kennedy loose. Where does your upgrade play? There isn’t a spot unless you’re clearing one in left. Hey, there’s an idea…
by Red in Chicago on Jun 24, 2008 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We can't afford to put all our
eggs in the Pete Kozma basket either. I know nothing about Brignac, don’t know if he’s the answer, but we’ve gotta be thinking in these terms if we want to build the next Cardinal champion.
I still don’t believe TLR would fight to keep AK on the roster if something better were available. If Moz is bold enough to make a trade like the above, he’s bold enough to send AK packing too.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 24, 2008 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if you see our other prospects it seems we're not in a kozma or else basket
we just got niko this year, we have greene.
i don’t know what any of those three will end up doing, but you can tell that the franchise isn’t “kozma or bust”
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 24, 2008 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think the Rasmus struggles are overblown
he seemed more than fine in Spring training this year. MLB pitchers didn’t phase him much then.
by azruavatar on Jun 24, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Then why the struggles at every
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 24, 2008 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he just starts slow
not sure what it is, maybe a mental, problem of trying too hard to prove himself worthy, that would explain this year as well. Once he settles down and gets adjusted he does fine.
by StLHugo on Jun 24, 2008 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wonder if the struggles are related to promotions
or if he’s just uber-streaky. We probably won’t know until he’s been in the majors for a full season whether or not he’s always streaky (Like Jimmy Edmonds), or just takes time to adjust at each level.
by effin fisk on Jun 24, 2008 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that's the point
he’s struggled twice: promotion to AA and promotion to AAA. Why does that represent a pattern? He didn’t struggle on Team USA or at Spring Training. I’d call those psuedo-promotions in that the talent level of the competition increased. The slow starter thing is a label he’s gotten that seems unfounded to me.
by azruavatar on Jun 24, 2008 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he didn't struggle in A ball either
did he? That would have to be the biggest jump in talent he has ever faced(high school to the pros). Just because something has happened doesn’t mean it will again. Rasmus provides the most upside to the offense this team will see. I love Luddy and Ank, but if moving them makes this team much better in ‘09 I think you have to go for it. That being said I hope if an OF is moved it is Skip, Crabman , or the Dunc.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 24, 2008 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If ST
were a true indication of performance then Iz would have about 45 errors by now.
ST != ML aptitude no matter how you spin it.
not saying I don’t like Razza, at all actually. But the ST done well doesn’t really sit comfortably.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 24, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm the last one to argue that ST is a definitive evaluation period
but you’re over simplifying things by saying it doesn’t matter at all or shows nothing about a players abilities.
by azruavatar on Jun 24, 2008 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i’m not arguing for or against, but if the idea that he doesn’t struggle on the head side of a transition is not the case by using ST as evidence of that fact, I’ll pull many examples where ST isn’t reflective.
I want Razza up and I want a lot of the glut we have in the OF area cleaned up, but you can’t use ST as rationale that there won’t be transition woes, because if anything, it’s been a consistent theme during his minor league career.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 24, 2008 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
dude
it was spring training
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 24, 2008 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spring Training
Mark Derosa had a very interesting interview about Spring Training right at the end of Spring Training….....
He basically said he could go hit .450 in Spring Training if he wanted to. He said most/all pitchers are throwing first pitch strikes and just working on stuff. So if you cheat and don’t want to work on things as a hitter you can pretty much predict a lot of what pitchers are going to throw. Derosa said in the long run it does not help you to dot that though.
I don’t know what Rasmus hit and all but basically Derosa pointed out that there ST stats have to be looked at carefully.
by ICbirdfan on Jun 24, 2008 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what was inpressive about Rasmus' offensive spring
was his patience. He worked counts, took a lot of walks, hit for power and was an all-around great hitter. He had other issues, though.
As far as DeRosa’s quote- when he hits .450 in spring training, he can say “I could hit .450 in ST if I wanted”. He batted .200 this year in the spring, and is having a fine season, so it’s fine for him to say that a poor spring isn’t indicative of a player’s season. But the inverse does not apply.
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jun 24, 2008 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Spring Training
I never really know what to take from it….....
If Albert struggles I don’t care….
If an unknown guy does well I perk up but don’t call him the next Babe Ruth.
by ICbirdfan on Jun 24, 2008 4:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll believe that when Mark DeRosa actually hits .450
but I understand his point. My point wasn’t that ST proves Rasmus is a finished product. I don’t think that’s the case. I do think that he’ll be able to hold his own against MLB pitching and what we saw in Spring Training would lend credence to that. He has an advanced approach at the plate that should transition well.
by azruavatar on Jun 24, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear yar Azruavatar...
I would rather an unknow guy like Rasmus produce well than not…....
by ICbirdfan on Jun 24, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I doubt DeRosa could hit .450 if he wanted to
BABIP wouldn’t let him.
by Phizzle on Jun 25, 2008 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mark Mulder scratched from tonight's start
again. Guess we get treated to another start by Mitchell Boggs.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 24, 2008 3:35 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Thats not a bad thing
Boggs hasn’t been great, but at least you can count on him to not blow up in any given start.
by DriverZn on Jun 24, 2008 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As long as you get him out of there in a hurry
He’s left the bases loaded in his second to last start and in his last start, he tried to give back an 8-0 lead.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 24, 2008 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bogg's last three starts > Mulder's last three starts
Dont get me wrong. Mulder defentily is a better pitcher. But I haven’t seen anything to believe that he’ll give us a better start this week than Boggs would.
by Evilfrog on Jun 24, 2008 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Mulder's last three starts
had his shoulder hanging by a thread.
Or are you talking about his rehab starts?
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 24, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No. His ML starts
I understand that he was hurt in his last three starts. But he hasn’t pitched healthy in the Majors for over 2 years. He has only 1 AAA game this year that just went alright. I don’t see Mulder comming in and giving us anything better than 5 IPs and 3 ERs at this point. I would love to be wrong on this. I just don’t see it happening. And this is what we are getting out of Boggs currently. And I most defenetly do not want to see an non-healthy Mulder taking the mound for St. Louis.
by Evilfrog on Jun 24, 2008 3:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A rookie
pitching when he should be throwing under an 8-0 lead isn’t the end of all worlds. And he settled fine after the 2nd inning and the coaches talk
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 24, 2008 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boggs at Fenway?
He didn’t settle in at all. He got some VERY hard hit outs, the line-out DP was particularly advantageous.
I’m not trying to blast Boggs. As a 5th starter, he’s done his job thus far. But when he isn’t getting 7 and a half runs of run support, his deficiencies are going to be much more glaring.
by Hardcore Legend on Jun 24, 2008 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We'll see
You’re going to have loud outs when you have an 8 run lead and all you need to do is shove the ball down the pipe instead of pitch. Add to that the sheer power that Boston cranks out and we’re talking about a whole different scenario.
He needs a ML average changeup and it’s not there. He needs more Memphis seasoning, but those particular situations weren’t a negative. IMO.
And I’m not defending Boggs as if you’re attacking him, for the record. But there’s a clear context to the situation, and Boggs deserves that context.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 24, 2008 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Do you honestly think Mulder vs Boston would have been better?
No, boggs isn’t great. however, he has outperformed Mulder despite being in the majors vs AAA for mulder.
by DriverZn on Jun 24, 2008 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just curious...
but where did you get this news?
by TNTinCO on Jun 24, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Still not inclined to let Barton go
I just don’t see the 4th/5th outfielders pulling many at bats right now, no matter who is up in that role. It’s going to be Ludwick, Ankiel, Skip more days than not. So I think any immediate returns to this team by replacing Barton would be very incremental.
I still could see Barton being a solid on base presence down the road. Outfielders are logjamming in the system back to AA, some may even argue to high A. Still I don’t necessarily think giving Barton away is the best solution for that. If you consider the logjam a problem, you’d probably also consider it in the “good problem to have” category. And I think it can be better addressed by trading one of them for some return value vs. giving up Barton for nothing.
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 24, 2008 3:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Saw the San Fran Comeback
It was a great game to see. I was impressed at how many Cards fans made it to the game. In that game Ludwick homered, Ankiel doubled off the center field wall (loooong double in SF), Duncan homered, Cain threw a no hitter into the seventh, and Anthony Reyes got the save throwing gas striking out two? batters and throwing about nine total pitches. It was a fun game to watch. Both times I’ve seen Ludwick hit homers in person (this game and last year in Oakland) he hammers the ball. When he gets ahold of them they go a loooong way.
by 916baller on Jun 24, 2008 3:56 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that was one of my favorite games this year too
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 24, 2008 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+2
Great game!
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on Jun 24, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My two favorite losses
Two losses I actually enjoyed watching.
The game versus Boston.
The game versus Washington.
Both made me believe in the true fight this team represents and the fact that at the end of this season, we may not have a ring on the finger, but we have nothing to hold heads down about. These boys are great to watch, frustrating, but great.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 24, 2008 4:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
those two hardly even count as losses too
unless we miss the playoffs or 1st place by 2 games, heh
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 24, 2008 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and if we end up in that situation, I’ll blame it on the “hold onto Izzy for a week too long” losses ;)
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 24, 2008 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Re: Barton
Trade chip him? fine.
But there’s no point stunting someone else when Barton has settled into his role fine.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 24, 2008 4:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He can't be a trade chip
He can only be traded for with Cleveland or offered back to them for a smallish cash consideration. ($25K, I think).
by punditmoi on Jun 24, 2008 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
since when?
from what I understand his rule 5 can be transfered to another team as long as his rule 5 goes along with him.
Does Cleveland have to have a say in those trade talks? Link for clarification?
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 24, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hamilton
It was brought up yesterday about the trade of Josh Hamilton from the cubs to the Reds after Hamilton had been taken in the Rule 5 and I don’t think it was ever really explained. Does anyone know how this was done and how it might relate to Barton?
by Tackle Box on Jun 24, 2008 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I stand corrected
And no, that doesn’t mean I wear orthopedic shoes…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_5_draft#Drafted.2C_but_returned_or_traded_before_start_of_season
If chosen in the Rule 5 draft, a player must be kept on the selecting team’s 25-man major league roster for the entire season after the draft—he may not be optioned or designated to the minors. The selecting team may, at any time, waive the Rule 5 draftee. If a Rule 5 draftee clears waivers by not signing with a new MLB team, he must be offered back to the original team, effectively canceling the Rule 5 draft choice. Once a Rule 5 draftee spends an entire season on his new team’s 25-man roster, his status reverts to normal and he may be optioned or designated for assignment.To prevent the abuse of the Rule 5 draft, the rule also states that the draftee must be active for at least 90 days. This keeps teams from drafting players, then placing them on the disabled list for the majority of the season. For example, if a Rule 5 draftee was only active for 67 days in his first season with his new club, he must be active for an additional 23 games in his second season to satisfy the Rule 5 requirements.
Any player chosen in the Rule 5 draft may be traded to any team while under the Rule 5 restrictions, but the restrictions transfer to the new team. If the new team does not want to keep the player on its 25-man roster for the season, he must be offered back to the team of which he was a member when chosen in the draft.
by punditmoi on Jun 24, 2008 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No dramas
and thanks for that.
So with that (and I may ask Strauss about it during his next chat because while I love Wikipedia, it’s not really authoritative), but it’s what I’m going on as well.
All of that being said, I still feel as if we bring up another OF I’ll we’re going to do is stunt him and turn him into even a worse prospect. At least from Barton we have some intangibles that we can use to justify (speed, namely)
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 24, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed
Wikipedia is great, but I always try to find additional corroboration. The only other info I found about Rule 5 transactions was a Rob Neyer “Transaction Primer” on ESPN.com and it’s pretty ambiguous.
A player drafted onto a Major League roster in the Rule 5 draft must remain in the majors (on the 25-man active roster or the DL) for all of the subsequent season, or the drafting club must attempt to return him to his original club.
Since he simply says that the player “must remain in the majors”, it can be interpreted as in the majors for any team. I’d always interpreted it to mean for the drafting team. He also says:
Occasionally, the drafting club will work out a trade with the player’s original team, allowing the drafting club to retain the player but send him to the minors.
Which I’d always interpreted as the only trade option for a drafting team. If wiki’s correct, that opens up more possibilities than I thought were there. It seems very possible that a team out of contention would be interested in Mr. Barton’s services and wouldn’t have a problem keeping him on the active roster for the last couple of months of a season already down the drain. Interesting…
by punditmoi on Jun 24, 2008 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
well for the sake of the argument there are a few teams with a subpar hole in the OF that may use his services. it could also be said that there may be a contender that wants to add some speed during the postseason run.
my clue on him being a trade chip would be him getting a few starts in a row, it could be a showcase that when he has a bat in his hands he can provide value. If he’s patient, like at times he can show he is, then he’ll up his trade value on the speed/OBP argument.
We’ll see what happens, but whatever we do.. let’s not stunt another AAA prospect by having them come up and ride pine, Barton is doing that admirably.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 24, 2008 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think he can be traded
but he’s gotta go through waivers or something, thus making him practically untradeable.
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 24, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
My favourite moments?
The two Ankiel throws. The kick save, and a beauty, by Pineiro.
Probably my absolute favourite of all, though, was the game Perez closed out against the Dodgers. Jeff Kent led off the inning with a little humpback liner to right for a single, and then Perez went all Super Saiyan on the Dodgers’ hitters, just making them look like they were school kids trying to catch to major league heat. He ended the game on a 97mph heater that was already in Yadi’s glove before Blake Dewitt was even halfway around in his swing.
What this book presupposes is, maybe he didn't?
by the red baron on Jun 24, 2008 4:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
love the Hoss, but I miss his slider.. sigh. (Pitch. It. More.)
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 24, 2008 4:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
did the dodgers just stand around for half the season?
talking about how his power pitching was UNBELIEVABLE!!!
by mattybobo on Jun 24, 2008 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was at that game
Perez was just wicked.
Speaking of striking out the side to end a memorable game, the game before that one was my most “memorable” of the year so far. Luddy blasted an incredible shot to dead center that one-hopped over the batters eye with a man on base, early in the game, but that was all the offense we could muster and we went to the ninth up 2-1.
in the bottom of the ninth, Ryan Franklin struck Loney out looking to start the inning. It was pouring down rain, and freezing cold; Matt Kemp comes up and stalls as much as possible, stepping out after every pitch, looking at the 3B coach, checking his watch, wiping his brow, etc. Ends up fouling off three or four balls and a rain delay was called with a 3-2 count.
Coming back from the hour+ rain delay, well after midnight, franklin looked like he had nothing left; game started back up with the count 3-2, and the pitch to kemp wasn’t close. He steals second, then dewitt starts out 3-0 before striking out in a ridiculous 7 pitch at bat with a couple of throws to first thrown in. Then Young walked on a wild pitch that makes it first and third.
It really felt like a game we were doomed to lose; Andruw jones was sent in to pinch hit with the tying run at third and the winning run at first. the suspense was incredible; there were maybe 200 people left in the entire ballpark, and every single one of us was pacing.
Then franklin somehow struck Jones out, and I rejoiced. K, W, SB, K, W, WP, K…
Obviously not as great of a game as the one in Boston, or even the one in SF where we came back against Cain (which I was also at) but that bit in the ninth, with the rain delay to draw the tension out, was about as exciting as an out-of-division mid-may game gets. Especially since they stopped serving franklins some 3 hours before ;)
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jun 24, 2008 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
oh really.....?
Did Kennedy play first base against any other team before?...LOL…
CA, That game WAS nerve racking, I was ready hop a jet west and pull Franklin after the rain delay myself, for sure after the walk to Young.
Dont know if Jones’ funk was more responsible for the 3rd strike than Frankin’s sinker, but I wanted to give Frankiln some credit for at least not collaping after the rain delay.
by cardschinmusic on Jun 25, 2008 6:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Adam Kennedy is playing first base today....
This is getting ridiculous.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jun 24, 2008 5:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well, i hear the giants...
nevermind.
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jun 24, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
That is ridiculous
TLR keeps using him in retarded situations, like at DH when there were plenty better options. I’d rather see Yadi or LaRue at 1st than AK. UGH….
Although I must say he had a good series against Boston, so credit where it’s due…
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jun 24, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
reminds me of Jimmy playing 1st 2 years ago when APu was injured
I never realized how short Jimmy was until that game. I was sitting in seats down near 1st base in the field boxes, and he looked tiny.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on Jun 24, 2008 5:20 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kennedy's glove is reasonably solid this year
though I couldn’t say it’s an upgrade to duncan, but at worst it will most likely not cost a run. And how Duncan is right now, I don’t see if as an offensive downgrade either.
I don’t know, it seems pretty damn dumb, but then again I would rather see
Glaus, Ryan, Miles, Kennedy
then I would
Glaus, Miles, Kennedy, Duncan
So I’ll take it.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 24, 2008 5:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
Kennedy at 1B
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 24, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey while he's at it?
Lets have..Looper as the DH….LaRue at SS…...........what the hell?...
by Timbo02 on Jun 24, 2008 5:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Glaus needs to pitch
Miles can close, that’s ok. But Glaus needs to quit hiding his secret weapon prowess.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 24, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I like the names out of a hat lineup
maybe we’ll see Ank at catcher!
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 24, 2008 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He pulling the names from something....
but it sure ain’t a hat, I bet ya.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 24, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
This is turning out to be one of the most enjoyable seasons in memory
We (inexplicably) have one of the best outfields in baseball and our pitching is OK, we all know we could use an extra arm or two. This looks like a team that can stay in there and win 88-90 games and take the WC.
Your= "belonging to you" You're= "You are" (like the song)
by JI on Jun 24, 2008 5:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Current active Cards splits against Rogers
PA AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SH SF IBB HBP GDP
—-—-—---—-—----—---—-—-—-—-—---—---—+
Troy Glaus 58 47 11 2 0 4 7 11 8 .234 .379 .532 .911 0 0 2 0 3
Adam Kennedy 31 28 6 1 0 0 1 0 5 .214 .241 .250 .491 2 0 0 1 0
Ryan Ludwick 9 9 5 2 0 1 2 0 1 .556 .556 1.111 1.667 0 0 0 0 1
Jason LaRue 7 6 1 0 0 0 1 0 3 .167 .286 .167 .453 0 0 0 1 0
Aaron Miles 3 3 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 .333 .333 .667 1.000 0 0 0 0 0
Yadier Molina 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .500 .000 .500 1 0 0 1 0
looks like the Cards will be light hitting tonight. GO CARDS!
—-—-—---—-—----—---—-—-—-—-—---—---—-—-
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on Jun 24, 2008 5:48 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
maybe
or they’ll be lighting him up!
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 24, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lemme clean that up a little bit
PA AB H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS SH SF IBB HBP GDP
—-—-—---—-—----—---—-—-—-—-—---—----------------------------------------------—+
Troy Glaus 58 47 11 2 0 4 7 11 8 .234 .379 0.532 0.911 0 0 2 0 3
Adam Kennedy 31 28 6 1 0 0 1 0 5 .214 .241 0.250 0.491 2 0 0 1 0
Ryan Ludwick 9 9 5 2 0 1 2 0 1 .556 .556 1.111 1.667 0 0 0 0 1
Jason LaRue 7 6 1 0 0 0 1 0 3 .167 .286 0.167 0.453 0 0 0 1 0
Aaron Miles 3 3 1 1 0 0 1 0 0 .333 .333 0.667 1.000 0 0 0 0 0
Yadier Molina 3 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .500 0.000 0.500 1 0 0 1 0
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jun 24, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Per Bernie...
CARDS
Barton LF
Miles 2B
Ludwick RF
Glaus 3B
Ankiel CF
Molina C
Stavinoha DH
Kennedy 1B
Ryan SS
TIGERS
Granderson
Polanco
Guillen
Ordonez
Cabrera
Thames
Sheffield
Renteria
Rodriguez
by LukeMP1186 on Jun 24, 2008 6:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The difference in these lineups is so drastic that it's almost funny...
by LukeMP1186 on Jun 24, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
what's amazing to me
is that the tigers have somehow only scored 5 more runs than us this season, even having the DH nearly every day…
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on Jun 24, 2008 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it could be explained by....
granderson being hurt to start the year, cabrera, and renteria having a down yr so far and pudge looking as tho age has caught up to him
by FunkeeC on Jun 24, 2008 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's hitting .368 .400 .500 over his past 38 PAs
Of course that’s just about entirely driven by batting average and BABIP so…..yeah.
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jun 24, 2008 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ha! Game of the night could be Blue Jays/Rays....
the Toronto GM had a dust up about Adam Dunn with a caller on a radio show and said some not very kind things about him….....unprofessional and unfair IMO, since he’d never met Mr. Dunn, and hadn’t actually seen him play.
Mr. Dunn should answer with his home run bat tonight…...I’m kind of hoping he hits 3…....
just because.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on Jun 24, 2008 6:39 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
adam dunn
seems to inspire dumb comments – didn’t someone around here call him fat & lazy?
by TNTinCO on Jun 24, 2008 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Regression to the mean is so much more fun to watch when it’s a Cub who is regressing." SleepyCA
by joker24 on Jun 24, 2008 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
he’s just so fat and terrible! if you like him, you must be fat, too.
by baw on Jun 24, 2008 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dunn did'nt....
.With a final of score 14-1 Jays, Im guessing no revenge was served to Ricciardi.
by cardschinmusic on Jun 25, 2008 6:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great memories list
Like others, I’d add the weekend series against Boston. And I’d definitely take out Pujols’ wrecking-crew trip around the bases against the Pads. Intriguing, oddly captivating—sure. But a FAVORITE memory? Hell no. Poor Chris Young with that bloody face… That was frankly one of my least favorite memories of the season, regardless of how it helped our team.
by briangunn on Jun 25, 2008 1:21 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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