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We could be pretty loaded next year

With all of the dead money we have coming off of the roster after this season and the cheap, young players that have either broken through this season or are poised to do so at the start of 2009, we could be pretty darn good next year. Here is how I see things shaping up so far:

 

OF:

Ankiel, RF, est $3 million (2nd arb year)

Rasmus, CF, $500k

Ludwick, LF, $500K

Mather, 4th OF, $500K

Barton or Skip, 5th OF, $500K

 

IF:

The Mang, 1B, $16M

Glaus, 3B, $12.5M

Gaping Hole, 2B

Gaping Hole, SS

Ryan, UTIL, $500K

Barden?, UTIL, $500K

Kennedy DFA, $4 million dead money

C

Molina, $3.25M

Anderson, $500K

 

SP

Wagonmaker, $2.6M

Carpenter, $14M

Piniero, $7.5M

Wellemeyer, est $2.5 million (2nd arb year)

Garcia/Boggs/Todd/Walters, $500K

 

 

RP:

Franklin, $2M

Perez, $500K

McClellan, $500K

Worrell, $500K

Johnson, $500K

Random LOOGY to keep Tony happy, $2M

Some other McVeteran to keep Tony happy, $2M

 

Well, that adds up to only 77.35 million or so. That leaves us around $25 million to fill the gaping holes at 2B/SS, or upgrade a SP if you like. Granted there's not a whole lot on the middle infield free agent market, but surely we can at least do better than what we're running out there this year up the middle. Maybe we can take on a big salary in trade from some team that's trying to make room for a prospect that's ready in the offseason.

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i actually looked up the contracts...

for next season a couple days ago and was pleasently surprised to see what our financial situation would be. i don’t know exactly who all the free agent middle infielders will be, but no one really exciting comes to mind. what i do get excited about, however, are some potential free agent pitchers. i would really love to see us go after ben sheets. i know he is a huge injury concern, and my idea would be to offer a pretty big three year contract, with an incentive claus that triggers another three years if he pitches 160 innings, in each of the first three years of the contract. maybe that wouldn’t be enough, there might be someone throwing 5-6 years at him. i don’t know what his feelings towards st. louis are, but that would seem fairly enticing. if he stays healthy, he has a 6 year deal, for premium money, and also sheets, carpenter, and wainwright, could possibly form the best 1-2-3 combo in the league. that would leave piniero, wellemeyer, garcia, todd, et al, to round out the rotation. possibly setting up a pitcher or two as trade bait. if i’m the g.m., that is my plan for offseason, add another stud to the rotation (sheets being my example) then have piniero and duncan and maybe another spare part or two to package.

by bwhitt on Jun 19, 2008 12:44 PM EDT   0 recs

Sheets

I, for one, am not in favor of giving any injury riddled pitcher any kind of contract. There are so few stud pitchers out there that are actually worth a deal longer than 3 years, and even those guys don’t always pan out. If you have a healthy Carpenter and Wainwright, Wellemeyer proves to be a decent middle of the rotation starter, then Piniero and Garciz/Boggs/Todd can round out the rotation and it would be in the top half of the NL. I don’t see the need to throw big money at a starter who’s been injured for the better part of two years.

IMO, Sheets would be crazy to accept and incentive laden deal like that one when he can’t count on being healthy. Someone (Yankees, Dodgers) will throw big money at him over 5-6 years and he’ll end up taking that and probably be out of baseball by the time the contract is up.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jun 19, 2008 2:53 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Lohse

With Carp and Waino healthy, I’d rather throw some decent money at Lohse over a 4 – 5 year deal. He’s a middle rotation starter who eats innings, never gets hurt, and can be really effective for 5-7 start stretches.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jun 19, 2008 2:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm sure

he’s going to be looking for a big contract at the end of this season. Especially if he keeps up this pace.

On with the (good) youth movement!

by aet15 on Jun 19, 2008 3:24 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

And Sheets isn't?

Starting pitching is EXPENSIVE and you are almost always going to overpay for it.

by Tackle Box on Jun 19, 2008 10:41 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

That's fine...

I’d rather spend money on a 3rd starter I can count on to give me near league average innings for 30 starts a year than spend a similar amount on a guy who hasn’t had 30 starts for 3 years and is coming off two years of arm problems. What good is it to have a guy you can’t count on pitching 20 starts, no matter how good those 20 starts are?

This is especially magnified when your club already has one ace pitcher with two major arm surgeries under his belt who is currently under contract for more than $60 million.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jun 20, 2008 10:07 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

O-Dogg

1-Sign Orlando Hudson to play 2B and let Brendan Ryan handle SS.

2-Make push at impact SP.

3-Solidify the pen.

4-Trust the youngsters to handle the rest.

No trades needed.

by TheFranchise9 on Jun 19, 2008 1:08 PM EDT   0 recs

Call me pessimistic

But I have this fear that Mulder will come back and pitch well down the stretch, get the option, then need surgery again next year and take up a ton of wasted payroll.

Or even worse, come back, pitch well, not pickup the option and go to someone like the Cubs and pitch life before the Haren trade.

Either way I’m scared.

http://www.theticketguys.com

by felone on Jun 19, 2008 1:36 PM EDT   0 recs

Even if he did just that

it wouldn’t hurt the team that bad financially.

What will kill the team is if Carpenter can’t come back and atleast be a #2 pitcher for that paycheck.

If he can come back, the rotation looks very strong. If he doesn’t, we have to dump even more money to try and find another quality starter.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 19, 2008 2:10 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

that's what scares me the most

everyone has carp on the list for ‘09, forgetting that it is far from a known quanity

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 20, 2008 1:03 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Mulder

He’ll never be the 200 inning, 30 start guy he was in Oakland. That would be the longest of long shots if he makes it back to that level.

Financially, we should hope that he makes it all the way back this season and pitches really well. He might be able to push us into the playoffs with that effort in ‘08 and he won’t cost us that much in ‘09. If there are two things we have it’s pitching and outfield depth.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jun 19, 2008 3:23 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Not to nitpick...

but Mulder and Clement have buyouts totaling about $2million, Franklin’s salary is $500k too low, and Ludwick and Duncan will be arb eligible, which will cost at least a few million and possibly more if we keep Dunc on the roster.

I would add $6-9 million to your $77 million figure.

by guayzimi on Jun 19, 2008 2:23 PM EDT   0 recs

Duncan

won’t be with us…bet my little finger on it.

I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck

by bukowski on Jun 19, 2008 2:29 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Nitpicking is good

should have used cot’s instead of mlb4u.com, they had mistakes on Franklin’s salary and Ludwick’s service time. I just flat-out missed the Mulder and Clement buyouts though. I couldn’t find a roster spot for Duncan so I voted him off the island via trade.

by mikedallas45 on Jun 19, 2008 2:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Especially

if we have a cold, frosty Budweiser…

I have discovered in twenty years of moving around a ball park, that the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats. ~Bill Veeck

by bukowski on Jun 19, 2008 2:24 PM EDT   0 recs

u mean

dutchweiser

"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda" - Rev. Jerry Falwell

by elirock83 on Jun 20, 2008 10:58 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

nitpicking...

One or more of our outfielders is going to get moved during this season or in the offseason. I highly doubt Colby will not be on the roster after spring training, meaning one of Ankiel, Ludwick, Duncan, or Schumaker needs to go. It would be nice if Duncan were still hitting at a 2007 1st half pace, then we could package him with someone in the offseason to a team that needs a corner OF bat or a DH—like Cleveland, who has middle infielders and some pitching (Sowers, Westbrook).

I think you’ve lowballed the amount that Ankiel will get in arbitration if he ever gets healthy this season - if he hits 30+ homers and plays as good a defense as he’s been playing, he’s probably going up to $4$5 million for next season. Ludwick will probably have a little bump in salary as well. I also think that Motte might make the team in the spring of ‘09 as well.

My top 5 moves if I’m Mo:

1. Look for a 2B who has some value with the bat but isn’t a butcher on defense (Hudson really fits the bill the best)
2. Ryan becomes the starting SS until Kozma is ready in late 2010 or early 2011.
3. Freese comes up to back-up 1B/3B and play occasionally when AP and Glaus need days off.
4. Kick the tires on every top of the rotation starter on the market and see what it would take to acquire them via trade or sign them as a free agent. I don’t see this as a major need if the kids keep pitching well.
5. Look for a new backup catcher, because our current one sucks and looks like he used to be a backup singer for the Village People.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jun 19, 2008 3:18 PM EDT   0 recs

I gave Anderson backup catcher because...

He sure looks like he’s ready, and he bats lefty, giving us the rare but nifty catcher platoon. He could end up being trade bait to get a middle infielder though, in which case we get stuck with the usual replacement level backup catcher.

by mikedallas45 on Jun 19, 2008 3:25 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Catching situation...

Yadi is the starter as long as Tony is in town, so he’s not going anywhere, nor should he—he’s locked up for a fairly inexpensive cost and was having a career year pre-injury.

I don’t think the organization benefits from having Anderson as the backup catcher. He’s not going to see significant plate appearances that way, and sporadic playing time will not help him move along in terms of skill. Example, look at what the Cubs did with Geo Soto—he spent a good amount of time at AAA (nearly 3 full seasons) before getting the call last year. He had time to fully develop and they are now reaping the benefits. I think he’s the frontrunner for rookie of the year at this point, and one of the pivotal players for the Cubs. I’d like to groom Anderson in a similar way in case of a major injury to Yadi OR as a player that can be moved for a top middle infielder or starting pitcher

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jun 20, 2008 10:12 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Disagree

I consider playing behind Yadi as Grooming. He is learning the everyday things from the best defensive catcher in baseball. He will get enough at bats between starting and being our best RH bench hitter.

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 20, 2008 2:18 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

But that means Anderson is probably playing 1 or 2 games out of 5.

And for a top prospect, even if he learns a lot by watching Yadier Molina, he learns more by playing in the games. Playing him between 20-40% of the time isn’t the best idea in the world. If you want him to try to develop fastest and best, try to hire Mike Matheny next year as a Triple-A coach and have him work with Anderson while Anderson plays full time.

by mtalken on Jun 22, 2008 10:09 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Exactly...

If being the back-up catcher is such a “learning” experience, then why is it that nearly every major league team has a veteran back-up catcher? Probably because they don’t want their top prospects playing 40 games at the big league level when they could be playing 100 – 120 at the AAA level and getting regular AB’s—that’s the best way to develop.

"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller

by fourstick on Jun 23, 2008 10:11 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

List of Moves

Depending on the injury situation, the cards will need a top-of the rotation starter. They will also need to bring an impact middle infield bat.
1.If Carp returns then bring in a top starter like Zack Grienke or just tBring up ry and go for a middle starter like Jon Garland. Waino,Carp,Greinke/Garland, Garcia, Piniero
2. Plug Brendan Ryan at SS and bring in via FA or trade a big bat like Brian Roberts or maybe Michael Young.
3. Bring up Mather and Rasmus and keep Ludwick in the consistent starting role. Dump Duncan and realize that Ank’s spectacular defense does not compensate for his lackluster offensive production.
4.Finally bring in some LH bullpen help so we can have Perez,K-Mac,springer,franklin,motte, and couple lefties!

by jcarro197 on Jun 19, 2008 3:36 PM EDT   0 recs

did you just say

ankiel and lackluster offense in the same sentence?

A guy at a bar says to the bartender bring me a big pitcher full of beer. The bartender comes back with Sidney Ponson.

by GOcrazyFOLKS87 on Jun 19, 2008 6:11 PM EDT   0 recs

He did

and if you’ve noticed, he’s played 5 months of mlb outfield. 2 months of great hitting and 3 months of putrid hitting. And if you notice when he’s hot, so far it’s been at the beginning. He’s yet to dig himself out of a slump at the major league level and until he does, he’s not valuable to this team long-term.

by Tackle Box on Jun 19, 2008 10:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

acquire C.C. Sabathia...

... we finally have the payroll flexibility to make a run at one of those guys, and if we don’t, then the Cubs will. if not him, then go for Burnett, or at least Lowe.

then see if we can trade some combination of Duncan/Reyes/Boggs/Jay/Walters/whoever for a young SS. if you wanna go for O-Dog, then go for it, but i don’t know that he’ll be worth it.

by kindred on Jun 19, 2008 7:13 PM EDT   0 recs

First things first...

All money/effort go into shoring up the LH side of the bullpen. This means going after 1 or 2 of the following players.
Damaso Marte, Dennys Reyes, Scott Downs

The next move should be to sign Rafeal Furcal or Orlando Hudson. Smart money is on them pursuing Furcal, as i’m still not sure Mozeliak has the cahones to cut bait on GIDP Kennedy. Thus we’ll likely see another fun filled year of Kennedy/Miles at 2b.

If money remains, pick up a good starting pitcher who fits the mold of a duncan pitcher.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jun 19, 2008 7:43 PM EDT   0 recs

I was waiting for someone to mention Furcal

and I’d rather have him than Hudson.

As far as Kennedy, I don’t think there will be a problem cutting him this offseason. It’s just with a year and a half remaining on his contract, I’m sure he’s being told to hold on to him for the time being.

by Tackle Box on Jun 19, 2008 10:50 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

furcal career: .287/.352/.412
hudson career: .280/.345/.435

both are 30 years old.

FIP > ERA, OBP > AVG

by astrostl on Jun 19, 2008 10:58 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

furcal vs hudson

I would love to see Furcal in STL and he would be great at SS and in the leadoff role. I just see Hudson being more likely because he’ll be cheaper, has been less injury prone and is one of the best defensive infielders in the game right now which would really help out our pitch-to-contact rotation.

But I’d be pretty stoked about either. Let’s get em both!

by TheFranchise9 on Jun 20, 2008 1:15 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Hudson is cheaper

Hudson would mostly likely command less money in a contract and will not take our #1 draft pick either,

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 20, 2008 8:42 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Furcal

I also think it would be awesome to have Furcal, he’s an offensive machine. He’s tied for the lead in runs scored in LA, and hasnt played in a month! (stat pulled from ass, something like that)

But he has also been very injury prone in the past 2 years, and that just sucks.

by cd on Jun 20, 2008 10:20 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I want to say: Hudson and Furcal

But as always you can never have enough pitching.

so maybe a pitcher and one of those

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(formerly Gargoyle Reign, Gargoyle Lounge)

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www.myspace.com/GriffinandtheGargoyles

:-D

by jealousblues on Jun 19, 2008 8:14 PM EDT   0 recs

Ankiel

Lackluster would be the word as of right now! Him hitting at a .250 clip isnt cutting it whatsoever. The league has figured him out, they are stoipping feeding him staight fastballs and are getting him out on soft breaking pitches.

by jcarro197 on Jun 19, 2008 9:30 PM EDT   0 recs

.344/.370/.504/.874 deserves a second look

And that’s Stavinoha who continues to play some solid ball in Memphis.

Our OF and SP has some serious glut going into ‘09.

Figuring that out will go a long ways to figuring out the rest of the puzzle.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 20, 2008 12:54 AM EDT   0 recs

You can't just keep calling people up b/c they are doing well at AAA.

Didn’t work with Mathers. Parisi. Reyes. Worrell. Etc.

I’ve seen nothing indicating that Stavinoha is ready to perform at the ML level, or even has a ML future.

by SoonerfanTU on Jun 20, 2008 1:18 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I love the "let's see what they can do!!!" stuff

The question is where and when? It’s not like anyone is going to get regular playing time with Ludwick and Ankiel penciled in every day, and Skip hitting near or over .300.

If people haven’t realized yet. We have a set outfield. It’s Ank, Lud and Skip with Barton as the reserve. Duncan is at first until Pujols comes back and then he’s probably headed back to Memphis unless he magically starts hitting.

by Tackle Box on Jun 20, 2008 1:48 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Stavinoha could DH this entire week

if the Cardinals chose to call him up. Instead, we will have Adam Kennedy, Brendan Ryan, Brian Barton or Aaron Miles as the teams DH.

-I don’t think anyone was clamoring for Parisi to get called up.
-Anthony Reyes was called up twice early in his career and was phenomenal. I’m not even sure what you are talking about unless you are trying to say that Reyes was a failure when called up in the past for LONG stints as a starter. Of course, the guy you just bad mouth won us a World Series, so…I think he was ready for prime time, atleast on good nights.
-Mather (no s) got 35 at-bats, started in his first 25 at-bats hitting .280 with an .819 OPS, then struggled his final week in the big leagues. He played plus defense in the OF and had a good eye at the plate. There is no reason Joe Mather shouldn’t be playing 1B right now instead of Duncan (other than that he hurt his back once back down in Memphis).
-Worrell > Villone.

It’s like you picked a random swath of players, some who got less than 2 weeks on the team, and used them to discredit the Memphis roster.

Calling up players doesn’t hurt the Cardinals, especially if they can replace players like Kennedy, Duncan, LaRue, etc (guys playing below the replacement level). If the don’t pan out, they return to the minors. If they do, they are the next Blake DeWitt, Ryan Ludwick, etc.

Remember when people were clamoring for Rick Ankiel and Ryan Ludwick to be called up next year for putting up monster numbers in Memphis? Neither fell on their face when they got here.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 20, 2008 4:33 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Right

if I recall Parisi was a result of the Izzy mess that put the pen in disarray and it had Reyes going down to stretch out as a starter.

Mather could have sat on 1st, while not his natural position, and done an adequate (compared to Dunc) on defense and offense. Also noting that he would have had a continuous stream of at bats. It’s not like he lost that stroke, before he had back issues crop he was still hitting well. Just needed to work through it.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 20, 2008 6:54 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

This and that

I titled the post “this and that” because I couldn’t think of anything else.

And I understand that your “response” was not intended to be entirely to me, but some points are but I’ll try to address each one anyway.

First, let me point out that I completely forgot about DH this week and a half. My bad and yes, we do need someone to fill that role other than Adam Kennedy or Aaron Miles. And, I guess I would be fine with Stavinoha.

With that said, and I’ve seen it written here somewhere, that guys like Mather didn’t get a fair shot even though we all knew (including Mather, I presume) that he wasn’t coming up to play full time. So, I don’t get all the angst.

Now, your points

-Parisi. And you’re right. No one did, although he did prove to be sort of useful in limited exposure out of the pen. He failed miserably as a starter (small sample size warning!!!!), but he never really blew the competition away in the minors either. Maybe we found something in him, maybe not. Btw, I just realized he gave up 21 home runs last year at Memphis! yikes.

-Reyes. I wouldn’t say he was phenomenal. He’s had a couple of great starts mixed in with a lot of shitty ones. And he’s sort of an Eddie Haskell in that he plays innocent to the media all the time, but why is he talking to the media so much anyway? And I guess I just don’t understand the comment “He was ready for prime time, at leasts on good nights” What about the bad nights? How do you avoid them? Because, in case you didn’t notice, his bad nights were capital letters BAD.

-Mather. Since he’s hurt this is amost a waste of time to discuss this. He never was expected to get full playing time, so we can’t complain that he didn’t. Should he (if healthy) be up instead of Duncan? Probably. But can we please stop calling first base a position we can just throw any warm body? It’s not quite as easy a position as many want to make it out to be. And if it is, then can we stop calling Albert Pujols the best player in baseball? Seems fair that if he plays a position basically anyone can play then he’s not an all around player. First base has a lot of responsibiltiy in regards to how the infield is run and can make the infield defense look a hell of a lot better than it actually is. Duncan is a first baseman, and has done much better defensively at first than he ever did in the outfield. But, his bat is horrible right now, so he’s not currently real high on my list of favorites.

-Worrell. Has yet to impress me. Everything he does, screams that he should be striking people out consistently. He has an awkward delivery that seems to be difficult to read. He has real good movement, and he throws in the low to mid 90s. Yet, he can’t strike anyone out. When major league hitters get a book on him, he’s toast. He’s not fooling anyone, and frankly I don’t think he has any control over his pitches. He seems to be either out of the zone completely, or getting way too much of the plate. Yes, he has 4 strike outs, but 3 of those came in the Philly game, the same one in which he gave up 4 hits including the home run. So, if you want to throw that game out, he only struck out one guy.

by Tackle Box on Jun 20, 2008 11:50 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It wasn't all intended at you

you are correct.

-If anyone says Mather didn’t get a fair shake, it’s probably because he was demoted so Chris Duncan could come back up for no particular reason. Joe Mather is just as much a ‘first basemen’ as Chris Duncan is. Mather is a vastly superior athlete than Chris. When it comes to first base, maybe not EVERYONE can play it, but most can. Does that mean it isn’t hard? No. The reason Pujols is considered the best is because of how well he plays the position, makes plays out of zone and saves runs. LF is where bad OF’ers are hidden but that doesn’t mean that Barry Bonds wasn’t one of the best OF’ers defensively all-time.

-The Reyes point was that he showed the brilliance that got the clamoring for his call up, but he never did it with consistency. He didn’t come up and pull a Parisi out the starter’s role. His 2007 stint was awful, but in 2006 he was at worst league average until they gave him a week off for no reason in late September and told him to go out and face Arizona. Even after that, he rebounded in the playoffs.

The point isn’t that these guys come up and perform at exactly the same level they do in AAA. The point is that even if they performed at 70% of what they are doing down there, they are better than some of the ‘veteran’ options we’ve got up here. And at least they have the potential to be greater.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 20, 2008 12:01 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I see what you are saying

It just seems at times there’s always a clamoring for the next guy. First it was Barton, then when he got settled in it was Mather. He got his shot and did well at times. Now it’s Stavinoha with a little Rasmus sprinkled in from time to time.

It’s sorta like Christmas, except we have an idea of what’s actaully in the package. Everyone wants (and I think hopes) for the next great Cardinal to be the next guy. And that’s not a completely unreasonable expectation, it just gets a little tiresome sometimes.

But, like I said before, I forgot about the need of a DH coming up. And, while in the past, I would have been fine with Duncan doing it, obviously with the current situation and his awesome hitting ability lately, now we need something different. Stavinoha? Okay I’m game.

And one last point about first base. Yes, I do agree that Pujols is the best player in baseball. Anyway, yes, first base is relatively easy to learn, but it takes a while. You need to be naturally quick with your hands and feet and that stuff comes naturally. The rest is all learning. Things like people raving on Pujols about a month ago when he tagged out a guy at 2nd base (or was close to it) when an outfielder threw behind the play on a double. That’s a routine play and something first basemen are expected to do. It’s just no one knows it because it’s not on tv and it rarely produces an out. It’s things like that that must be learned. You can talk about it with a player, but a first baseman needs to read the play and figure out where he’s going instantaneously. Is he a trailer to 2nd? Is he a cutoff at home? And the 1st baseman covers more ground, in different directions, on outfield hits than anyone else on the infield.

It’s not a terribly difficult position to play, but you have to understand the position and be able to react to the situation instantaneously. Something that Joe Mather, Nick Stavinoha and Troy Glaus can’t do (at this point in time). Chris Duncan can, because he has the expereince. Basically, if he does his job there, you probably don’t notice him.

by Tackle Box on Jun 20, 2008 1:40 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Right, but I'd take a marginal downgrade

in first base defense (although Mather has made some nice plays at 1B when he has played there this year) for the upgrade in offense. We can’t carry no hit defensive specialists at SS, 2B, 1B and CF and expect to win games. This isnt’ football. You do actually have to score runs.

None of this would be a real problem if Chris Duncan could hit his weight…or even OBP his weight for that matter.

by Hardcore Legend on Jun 20, 2008 2:37 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It has less to do with "defensive" ability

than it does with understanding the position.

by Tackle Box on Jun 20, 2008 3:20 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I dont get

“understanding the position”. If you understand the position then you should be adequate defensively. Take a look at Duncan’s fielding stats in the minors (when he played 1B). It is a stretch saying he is an adequate 1B.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 20, 2008 4:44 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No offense

But if you can’t understand the difference between physical ability and the mental aspect of understanding the position after everything I’ve written, then I don’t know what else I can say.

I say this with all sincerity. I’m not trying to be rude, I simply don’t know any other way to distinguish between “defensive abiltiy” (i.e., physcial ability) and “understanding the position”.

by Tackle Box on Jun 20, 2008 7:54 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No offense

I know the the difference
I don’t think he understands how to play first base.
That is what you meant, right?
He seems to hesitate when throwing to other bases. I have seen him throw to the wrong base on bunts.
I am just saying those two things tie into each other. I think I made it rather clear. I don’t need to be talked down to.
Fuck it, I am not commenting on anything you do again.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 20, 2008 9:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Ok, so I will

But I am done on this topic.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 20, 2008 10:02 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Look

I never intended to offend you. But when you say “I don’t get understand the position. If you understand the position then you should be adequate defensively”, then it seems as though you aren’t following what I am saying (and honestly, i felt as though you hadn’t read any of the posts and just responded to the last thing you read). Then you say you did understand. Whatever. If I talked down to you, I’m sorry. Sometimes its difficult to figure out what people are talking about in type.

As far as throwing to the wrong base on a bunt, that’s a communication issue. He’s not supposed to make that determination since his back is probably to the play. In that case the catcher (um…LaRue) probably either didn’t give him the call early enough or simply screwed up the play. Or, it’s possible he had two people telling him different bases (which could possibly happen with LaRue and the guys not trusting him) Duncan is supposed to field the ball and throw it where he’s told.

by Tackle Box on Jun 20, 2008 10:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

It just seems at times there’s always a clamoring for the next guy. First it was Barton, then when he got settled in it was Mather. He got his shot and did well at times. Now it’s Stavinoha with a little Rasmus sprinkled in from time to time.

It’s sorta like Christmas, except we have an idea of what’s actaully in the package. Everyone wants (and I think hopes) for the next great Cardinal to be the next guy. And that’s not a completely unreasonable expectation, it just gets a little tiresome sometimes.

One, feel free to click my nickname and look through past posts. I don’t play the “grass is greener” in the minors card. I tend to not even play the “grass is greener” with trades either. Off hand I can think of four instances where I’ve even considered the call up/trade.

Mather over Duncan – Duncan is batting .161/.188/.161 /.349 since being called back up from Memphis. I’ll consider myself vindicated.

Ron Flores – when perez was considered to be called up I said to watch Ron, who had a massive K:BB ratio and a stunning ERA. His numbers have ballooned out everywhere, and that’s been weeks ago. I don’t ride that ship any longer.

Uggla as a 2nd baseman – Uggla was having a horrid April and it was during the MI conversations. While not really an option now – way vindicated.

Keeping an open mind about Haren, medium liability – massive upside.

I don’t want Razza up until expanded roster, because when he’s up, he’s up. Clearly he’s not going to be someone you want to roller coaster. I want Garcia and Todd to stay down in the minors as long as needed, even if that prospects till ‘09. etc, etc.

In short, I get it. I do. I get tired of the absurd trade b.s., the overvaluing our leftovers get, the “grass is greener” tirades and the like, but it needs to be said on who is doing it, and it’s not me.

In fact, what I* am doing is looking towards ‘09. Which is what this post was all about. So call ups weren’t even part of the equation. However humor me for a second.

If Razza was hitting .346/.375/.519/.894 with 15 2B,10HR in 260 AB you would have petitions and protests in the street for him to replace Duncan. However, it’s not him it’s Stavinoha.

And to be frank, and not aimed at you. If we have a OF that’s hitting 346/.375/.519/.894 at seasons end and he’s *not figured into the next years potential OF/ factored into a trade conversation, our team is officially run by idiots.

To quote myself:

.344/.370/.504/.874 deserves a second look

And that’s Stavinoha who continues to play some solid ball in Memphis.

Our OF and SP has some serious glut going into ‘09.

Figuring that out will go a long ways to figuring out the rest of the puzzle.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 21, 2008 1:57 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I get it

My post was not directed at you specifically. It was a reflection of a mass of people who are always clamoring for the next guy who’s hitting over .300 to get called up. I can’t go and respond to every single person who wants Mather or Stavinoha or whoever. Please don’t take it so personal. I did say “people” in my post.

If you feel as though I called you out or something, I didn’t but I appoligize anyway.

by Tackle Box on Jun 21, 2008 12:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

No dramas, sincerely, I’m not stressed. Just justifying my comment and providing clarification.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 21, 2008 3:22 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Again

Parisi’s situation has to have context. Bullpen was in disarray with Izzy bouncing from closer to “somewhere other than”. Reyes was struggling from the bullpen role because he was getting limited pitches. They swapped not because of Memphis numbers, but because Parisi’s rotation spot happened to be in an area where he was rested. His starting numbers mimic what he’s done in Memphis and considering that he went from the ‘pen and then to starting probably didn’t help.

That aside, he’s been pitching a tear since going back down to Memphis. So either he picked up a couple of tips while being here, or just wanting the spot back. He wasn’t a performance call up, but an alignment one.

Worrell shouldn’t even be apart of the discussion because he’s pitched all of 4 games. If I had the time, or the inclination I’d love to look at how many pitchers have had comparable numbers in 4 games. 4 games means nothing, which means that constituting him as a failure based on those 4 games means nothing as well.

The only reason why Mather is in this conversation is due to the “examples” of failures. Keep in mind that in the same number of plate appearances, only El Hombre and Rick stand out as better numbers than Mather, from a quick glance. But at the end of the day it comes to replacement numbers. Duncan wasn’t going down until performance issues were resolved, he was going down for a set amount of days. My contention is that frankly you could have kept a better at bat in the lineup heading forward and if we were in a situation where Mather was a true liability at first, then we could consider the Duncan call up. That wasn’t the situation, so it doesn’t play out.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 21, 2008 12:47 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Then the terms of the team have changed :)

From what I recall (well, from reality) is that the platoons would have a large bias on performance. There’s two guys who’s performance is weaker than this kid in the lineup a bit, and a third is there as well, but locked up under the Rule 5. By design this year was that nothing was set. We’re in a consequence of injuries.

and you may want to take note, this post was about ‘09. and I mentioned glut.

But, by all means, jump out of context and bandwagon aboard!

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 20, 2008 6:48 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

So you say Ank isn't valuable to the team long term

and then you say no, we can’t bring up someone kicking ass in AAA because Ank has to be in the outfield?

And Sooner, what do you need to see to indicate Stavinoha is ready to perform at the ML level? What are the minor leagues for if when someone who is tearing it up down there doesn’t get a chance to move up to the next level.

Just wanting some clarity here.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 20, 2008 4:38 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Wanna cherry pick some?

Sigh.

Mathers came up knowing it wasn’t an “earn it and keep it” role, Tony agreed to a set amount of days Dunc was to go down. Dunc was already coming back up precalf injury. A lot of guys making the transition take some time to find a bat, this isn’t rocket science.

Parisi was reasonable as a long cleanup and if you’d recall – he didn’t come up for performance reasons, but yet bullpen issues. So he doesn’t even factor to your comment.

Worrell appeared in 4* games. 4! The first two games he pitched fine, then a whole *week past until he was used again. There he was tagged a bit in Cincy (read: bandbox) and against Philly. Neither of those games you can consider shameful. If you can, we have a shitload of pitchers that you’ll consider that truly do suck.

I’m not touching the Reyes bit.

And what do you need to see that he is or isn’t ready to perform at the ML level? His numbers season long are better than Razza who’s penciled in the original post, and he’s even keeping reasonably close since Razza decided to go on a tear.

“You prove, you move” is the farm systems mantra. Well, the kid is sitting in AAA. Where do you suggest he go?

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 20, 2008 6:43 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I had an idea

Cincinatti are going to be sellers in the next few weeks: let’s get Brandon Phillips. He’s signed not that expensively through 2011 with a club option for 2012 (not like that will matter, with the world coming to a gruesome end in December of that year), plays solid defense, is 26, can steal bases, and hits for power. It’d be cheaper to get him now and keep his contract than it would be to sign Furcal or Hudson as free agents, and it’d leave the birds with more money to get an ace. With Lud/Phillips/Pujols/Glaus, we can afford to have Ryan/Miles at short, I think. Eh?

by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Jun 25, 2008 1:47 PM EDT   0 recs

Actually, now that I look harder, he plays EXCELLENT defense. Do you think he’d even be available come deadline-time?

by ICEYhawtSTUNNAZ on Jun 25, 2008 1:52 PM EDT   0 recs

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