Proof the Yankees are run by idiots!
Sorry I couldn't resist.
Quote from Hank Steinbrenner:
"My only message is simple. The National League needs to join the 21st century," Steinbrenner said in Tampa, Fla. "They need to grow up and join the 21st century.
"Am I [mad] about it? Yes," Steinbrenner added. "I've got my pitchers running the bases, and one of them gets hurt. He's going to be out. I don't like that, and it's about time they address it. That was a rule from the 1800s."
Is this guy for real? This guy needs to think before he speaks, he sound like a complete tool.
I swear if Comish Bud bows down to his demands and considers or even has a vote about using the DH in the National League because of this windbag I will just about give up on my favorite sport.
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The first rule of baseball
When people argue for the DH I always ask them what is the first rule in baseball.
— Baseball is a game consisting of a team of 9 players vs. another team of 9 players.
by stl3bagger on Jun 16, 2008 11:53 PM EDT 0 recs
The arithmetic works
Two half-men.
The designated hitter is a shameful blight on the game.
by liam on
Jun 17, 2008 2:28 AM EDT
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i may get in trouble for this
But the Yankees have their Wang out? Sad day, sad day
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Jun 17, 2008 4:02 PM EDT
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haha, no trouble
that was totally appropriate.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on
Jun 18, 2008 3:40 PM EDT
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This probably wasn't worth a fan post
I just couldn’t resist using a play on words from the Hardcore Legend fan post.
Lboros you can delete this if you want.
by KYCards on Jun 17, 2008 12:07 AM EDT 0 recs
it made me smile...
and i fully expect to show up for work tomorrow to read 300 posts debating the DH.
"the hardest decision to make is to do nothing; there is a terrible temptation to interfere." -gen patton
by SleepyCA on
Jun 17, 2008 12:15 AM EDT
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WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
My pitchers are running the bases!! Oh the humanity!!
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on Jun 17, 2008 12:40 AM EDT 0 recs
perhaps
someone should tell hank that in the World Series the pitchers have to hit . . . any good AL team should consider interleague a tuneup for the ultimate goal in baseball—it would be completely ridiculous to get rid of the pitcher hitting.
"I wouldn’t have seen it if I hadn’t believed it.’" ~Shannon
by sprfldcard on
Jun 18, 2008 10:16 PM EDT
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And a center fielder can hurt himself running the bases too
I don’t see his point.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on Jun 17, 2008 12:56 AM EDT 0 recs
Exactly...
Doesn’t the DH also have to run the bases? Or maybe we should let them use a robot like Johnny-5 in place of their aging slugger DH’s in the AL so they don’t fall apart…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Jun 17, 2008 10:19 AM EDT
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will we get Ally Sheedy to replace tlr then?
We can even have the Cure be someones walk-up music
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on
Jun 17, 2008 10:35 AM EDT
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or baseball simulator 3000
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Jun 17, 2008 1:30 PM EDT
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or robot baseball on the snes
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on
Jun 17, 2008 2:18 PM EDT
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that was such an incredible game
but I thought it was on the NES, or am I thinking of something different?
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on
Jun 18, 2008 3:40 PM EDT
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dunno
but i will always love rbi baseball, because fat dudes are even awesomer than robots.
by mattybobo on
Jun 19, 2008 12:31 PM EDT
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1986 game six
if you haven’t seen it before, go on you tube and search for the re-enactment of game six of the 86 world series. redone in great detail, with vin scully’s announcing, all on rbi baseball.
by mdarshan on
Jun 19, 2008 12:59 PM EDT
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wow! what a great video.
the miller lite barrett player of the game thing was surreal…
and i was rooting for the mets while i watched it, does that make me dirty pond scum?
by mattybobo on
Jun 19, 2008 1:43 PM EDT
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RBI
I played baseball from Little League on up with a guy who looked like a character from RBI Baseball—in fact, that was his nickname all through HS.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Jun 19, 2008 1:02 PM EDT
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steinbrenner is crazy
anyone can get hurt. even outfielders. they hit walls sometimes, don’t they?
Redbirds Fun
2006 WS for JB and DK57RIP: Josh Hancock
by cardsfan84 on
Jun 17, 2008 12:05 PM EDT
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Slave children should run the bases for the players.
Miles in '08
by Zoop on Jun 17, 2008 1:14 AM EDT 0 recs
Hank could use a history lesson
I wasn’t aware that the 1800s were only 35 years ago. Where does the time go?
by stl tyler on Jun 17, 2008 1:16 AM EDT 0 recs
Babe Ruth was the ultimate Yankee (or one of them at least)
Babe Ruth got started pitching
If the DH was around back then, he wouldn’t have hit
Therefore, you could conceivably say that we’d never know the great hitting Babe Ruth
I know this argument has a ton of flaws, but screw Hank Steinbrenner
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on
Jun 17, 2008 1:51 AM EDT
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Same thing could be said about Ankiel
If he was on a AL team, he’d probably be retired right now, as opposed to playing CF
(excluding the whole argument that if he wasn’t used in 96 playoffs maybe he’d still be pitching)
Matt Morris is Rick Vaughn from Major League 2.
by felone on
Jun 19, 2008 1:28 PM EDT
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'96 playoffs?
that’s some revisionist history there I think. He would have been 16 in the 1996 playoffs.
I think you meant the 2000 playoffs….
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Jun 19, 2008 2:34 PM EDT
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And DH rule seems to cause more HBP
So maybe some NL league owner needs to rail on how AL rules hurts their hitters next time they get a HBP in a road intraleague game. This kind of stuff can cut both ways. Unfortunately, you can’t fight ignorance with more ignorance. They’re too ignorant to get the point.
On the bright side, Hank, Carl Pavano might be ready to throw off the mound again soon.
by Merry CRasmus on Jun 17, 2008 2:19 AM EDT 0 recs
Reminds me of a great quote
Never argue with stupid people – they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.
That said, the Cubs do deserve my pity, but never my support.
by Solanus on
Jun 17, 2008 9:21 AM EDT
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That's fantastic...
I’m so using that in the next staff meeting….I will credit you sir
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Jun 17, 2008 10:21 AM EDT
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How exactly do you quote someones screen name
from a blog without sounding like a total nerd?
by Tackle Box on
Jun 17, 2008 1:06 PM EDT
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+1
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on
Jun 17, 2008 1:27 PM EDT
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who cares
about sounding like a total nerd?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Jun 17, 2008 1:35 PM EDT
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Fourstick...
You say “The great philosopher Solanus once said…”
That’s how you credit that one…
Booyah!
by stlfan on
Jun 18, 2008 9:57 AM EDT
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that all depends on whether you’re a total nerd already—then you just sound like yourself.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Jun 18, 2008 1:06 PM EDT
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you could probably pass off
Solanus as a real name.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on
Jun 18, 2008 3:41 PM EDT
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It is a real name
Not mine, but I googled it once and came up with a Father Solanus, who is supposed to be this great guy, who some people argue should be considered for sainthood or something like that.
Actually, my brother came up with the name (Solanus Dirkandon, to be exact) for an RPG character over 20 years ago back in grade school. It sounded cool and I appropriated it.
Also, the quote isn’t mine either. You’re better off just putting “unknown” or “unattributed” instead of the name.
That said, the Cubs do deserve my pity, but never my support.
by Solanus on
Jun 19, 2008 10:18 AM EDT
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just substitute mark twain
or winston churchill, or plato. No one will know any better.
“the great greek philosopher solanus’ should work well, I would think.
"If thats bad luck, lets DFA our luck away." -DriverZN
by SleepyCA on
Jun 21, 2008 1:41 AM EDT
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That IS a great quote.
I need to keep it in mind during my next encounter with a Cub fan.
by cardsgirl95 on
Jun 17, 2008 10:29 AM EDT
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The rumours still resonate....
I still wonder after all these years….was Marge Schott secretly married to George for a short time and the possible mother of Hank?
Brian Bruney still wonders what a lisfranc joint is!
by cardschinmusic on Jun 17, 2008 6:55 AM EDT 0 recs
DH
I like the fact the American League has the DH, but I love the fact that the National League does not! I am not that old (48) but I remember when there were a lot of differances between the two leagues. The National League had turf. American had the old ball parks. The Umps etc, but now the differances have narrowed down. So the DH is the big differance. So let them keep it!
by nybirdfan on Jun 17, 2008 7:14 AM EDT 0 recs
oh
if the yankees are run by idiots maybe we should offer Ankiel for Cano
by nybirdfan on
Jun 17, 2008 7:48 AM EDT
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Which is probably the most dissapointing thing...
About having to go Away to face the Tigers and Red Sox. Our slugging pitchers don’t get to hit. Also, the Sox are the best in the AL and the Tigers have recently gotten on a roll… Aside from that.
by Pujols Is A God on
Jun 17, 2008 1:21 PM EDT
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... the Steinbrenner comment
could put it in his team’s mind that they should fear injury when going into NL parks. The NYC media will be on this angle pestering the players for quotes when the Yanks are in an NL park. Should another freak injury happen, even a minor one, there will be an uproar in the NY press.
by jjray on Jun 17, 2008 9:06 AM EDT 0 recs
How about Mussina?
For a guy who went to Stanford, he makes himself sound rather like a dolt here:
“We don’t hit, we don’t run the bases,” Mussina said. “You get four or five at-bats a year at most, and if you happen to get on base once or twice, you never know. We run in straight lines most of the time. Turning corners, you just don’t do that.”
"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley
by TurdFerguson on
Jun 17, 2008 10:35 AM EDT
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Right
And this wouldn’t be a problem if you had to hit all year long. Mussina has played his whole career in the AL, so this doesn’t surprise me—they don’t want to do something they aren’t good at and don’t practice. Man up, Moose!!!
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Jun 17, 2008 10:37 AM EDT
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He makes himself sound like Forrest Gump....
running in straight lines, don’t turn corners…..good grief. He should have added “Running the bases is like a box of chocolates…..”
"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley
by TurdFerguson on
Jun 17, 2008 10:41 AM EDT
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Just strike out then
If it’s too dangerous out there for you then just take three feeble swings and rest your legs on the bench. Simple, effective solution.
by Merry CRasmus on
Jun 17, 2008 12:31 PM EDT
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haha
“Who gave Moose a stick of gum again?? You know damn well he can’t chew that and walk at the same time”
by baw on
Jun 17, 2008 1:45 PM EDT
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if he would have struck out like Bartolo Colon
I’m sort of surprised that Hank didn’t fault Wang for getting on base in the first place.
by Elle on Jun 17, 2008 9:37 AM EDT 0 recs
seriously
what was wang doing clogging up the bases like that? that’s how guys get injured in this game.
by mattybobo on
Jun 17, 2008 1:32 PM EDT
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I may be in the minority here
but I’ve come to like the DH over the last few years. How often do we really care whether our pitchers can hit? That’s rarely a concern when you’re discussing their value (although Nate Silver had a nice piece on it about a week ago). Pitchers have become so specialized that I’d rather see someone whose specialization is hitting in my lineup than say Wellemeyer (who can’t bunt to save his life). Not to mention it opens up some opportunities in terms of roster construction for your defensively challenged mashers.
I guess I don’t buy the whole violation of tradition argument—which seems to be the only anti-DH critique I’ve heard.
by azruavatar on Jun 17, 2008 9:54 AM EDT 0 recs
Here's a few more then...
1. AL teams don’t have to spend money on reserve players, because they don’t have to worry about where the pitcher is hitting and sort their roster around that spot late in games. It effectively shortens their bench and their bullpen and allows them to pony up millions of dollars for aging sluggers - which creates a competitive imbalance between the leagues.
2. There are some AL teams with absolute CRAP DH’s because those teams don’t spend money. Most of the teams with good players in a DH role have high payrolls. I’d rather see the strategy of double-switching in the late innings than watching a washed up Jose Vidro bat 4 times a game.
3. By your “specialized” argument, should there then be some type of rule for courtesy runners as well? It would be great to allow, say, Scott Podsednik or Brian Barton, to run for Torrealba or Molina every time they reach base. Except, of course, that it’s RIDICULOUS!!! The thing is, that’s basically the argument you just made about specialized batters.
4. Some pitchers are serviceable hitters. Enough said on that one.
5. All pitchers should be able to get a bunt down - they are professional athletes who work on these things every day. I’m sure most of these guys were good hitters at some point in their career as well.
6. The injury aspect is completely overblown. Randy Johnson was on a massage table in between innings his last few years on Seattle, but when he was traded to the Astros and D-Backs he had to get himself into shape in order to be able to hit 3 times a game. IMO, this extended his career because his body was more able to take the beating from pitching.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Jun 17, 2008 10:35 AM EDT
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1. That’s not a refutation of the DH - that’s a refutation of league differences.
2. That’s not a refutation of the DH - that’s a refutation of payroll imbalance
3. You have to draw a line somewhere. There’s a pretty clear cut division between pitchers and position players. Less so when you get into the nuances of pinch runners and defensive replacements. Not that you still can’t have those types of players on the team. Basically, you’re claiming a ‘slippery slope’ argument and those are often flawed.
4. Who cares if they’re servicable. Let them be the DH then.
5. But why should we want hitters that are essentially restricted to being bunters? What’s the entertainment in that.
6. I’m not arguing that the injury aspect is the primary cause but it’s a non-negligible factor in an environment where AL pitchers are forced to partake in activies just 8-10 times a year.
by azruavatar on
Jun 17, 2008 12:16 PM EDT
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#1 IS a "refutation" of the DH.
Calling it “league differences” instead (how creative) doesn’t change that.
I’m with fourstick on most counts. When you get right down to it, what IS the difference between hitting for a pitcher and running for a catcher? “You have to draw the line somewhere” is a cop-out.
by baw on
Jun 17, 2008 12:56 PM EDT
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no, it isn't
the original point isn’t that shorter benches and more money on superstars is bad but that b/c it’s in the AL there’s a competitive imbalance. There’s nothing there that directly indicts the DH.
Why do we let some pitchers just pitch in relief? Because there’s an arbitrary line in the sand that it’s permissible. Why should relievers who can’t last 9 innings be allowed under your logic. You can call it a cop-out but you can’t offer a substantive difference between the two.
by azruavatar on
Jun 17, 2008 1:05 PM EDT
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what?
Any manager can choose who he puts out there to pitch. Only an AL manager can choose to have Frank Thomas hit instead of Rich Harden.
by baw on
Jun 17, 2008 1:08 PM EDT
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But why is the DH
any different that a reliever. Unless you can show why one delineation of roles is valid and another isn’t you can’t really call it a copout.
by azruavatar on
Jun 17, 2008 1:10 PM EDT
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Here's the difference...
A reliever is a substitution, the DH is not.
Frank Thomas can hit for Harden, Duscherer, and Street in the same game. An NL manager would have to use three different hitters for those three players.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Jun 17, 2008 1:13 PM EDT
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A DH is a hitter that can’t field. A reliever is a pitcher that can’t last 9 innings. Both are cases where a player serves in a reduced role because of a specialized skillset.
The last part of your argument is an indictment of league differences again.
(BTW, this realtime comment updating is great.)
by azruavatar on
Jun 17, 2008 1:18 PM EDT
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There is no rule stating Justin Duchscherer can’t pitch 9 innings if his manager wants him to (which he may do, now that he starts games instead of finishes them).
Calling a player substitution the same thing as a designated hitter is some sort of logical fallacy that I don’t have a name for.
by baw on
Jun 17, 2008 1:22 PM EDT
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+1
You beat me to it…I just couldn’t hit post fast enough lol
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Jun 17, 2008 1:23 PM EDT
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Also
DH’s CAN field, but there is a rule that says that they don’t have to. “Can’t” would seem to say that they are missing a hand or something—the ramifications of them in the field are about the same as the ramifications of a reliever going 9 innings (fallacy in itself as most starters can’t go 9 innings anymore either, you should have said “multiple” innings).
The difference is that the managers who have the DH have a built in excuse for playing their best bat instead of their worst bat and replacing his spot on the field with another great bat who fields better or a better defensive player.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Jun 17, 2008 1:27 PM EDT
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heh
I am surprised, anyway, that an argument on a Cards message board turns to whether or not relievers can handle a starter’s role. Hello?
by baw on
Jun 17, 2008 1:29 PM EDT
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huh
DH’s can field? What the hell, that would give a team 10 players on defense. I would have to think if DH’s could field they would be standing right out between the 2B and SS.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Jun 17, 2008 1:38 PM EDT
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he means they are capable of it
like, David Ortiz won’t melt if he touches leather
by baw on
Jun 17, 2008 1:41 PM EDT
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OhK!
I was like lost in bizzaro baseball rules world there for a minute.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Jun 17, 2008 1:45 PM EDT
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No
they’d probably play shallow left center or shallow right center like the “rover” in beer league softball….lol
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Jun 17, 2008 1:52 PM EDT
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just like relievers give a manager
a built in excuse to use their best arm at that moment. I really don’t see a distinction here. DH’s are hitters who aren’t required to field, Relievers are pitchers who aren’t required to throw 9 innings (or start games). Those both look like niche specializations provided for by the rules, imo.
by azruavatar on
Jun 17, 2008 2:16 PM EDT
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I can see relievers
compared to defensive specialists or pinch-hitters, but not to the DH.
A more apt comparison would be a designated LHP who could come in for a RHSP to face lefts, then turn the game back over to the starter. You’d have a special player to do something the starter isn’t expected to be particularly good at doing.
But, IMNSFHO, starters should be expected to work at all parts of the game of baseball, including pitching against their handedness, putting the ball in play, and running the bases. Also fielding, something I imagine Tom Gordon spent a lot of time practicing yesterday.
by liam on
Jun 17, 2008 2:25 PM EDT
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in my not so f--king humble opinion?
I’m guessing that’s not the real acronym breakdown but I’m drawing a blank.
by azruavatar on
Jun 17, 2008 2:36 PM EDT
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Right.
The distinction is between substitution and designation in baseball, azru. That’s a huge difference. I’ve read your other stuff and I have a hard time believing you don’t see it.
You can’t ask managers to stop substituting players: bringing in relievers, pinch-hitting, etc. That would handcuff them and ruin the game.
You can ask them not to DESIGNATE a hitter so the pitcher doesn’t bat.
The two are not related.
by baw on
Jun 17, 2008 2:39 PM EDT
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You can use relievers in either league, though
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on
Jun 17, 2008 2:58 PM EDT
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