The Messenger
What do you really say about a game like that one? Not a whole lot, that's what.
Okay, so let's review.
The largest brewery in America, a longtime St. Louis landmark, is pretty much screwed.
Our baseball team was beaten last night by eighteen runs.
The status of our ace pitcher, Chris Carpenter, is now up in the air following yet another setback.
Our young turk pitcher has a bad finger and may not be back for quite a while.
The greatest hitter in baseball, who just happens to play for the Cardinals, is out with a bad calf and is probably out until the All Star break.
Oh, and by the way, each and every last one of you are going to die someday.
Okay, any other bad news?
I hate to possibly put myself out on a limb and invite more hatred and ridicule, (thanks everyone, particularly Azruavatar, damn your black heart) but I was watching Todd Wellemeyer last night, and he doesn't look healthy to me. Obviously, his velocity was fine and his delivery looked okay, but there was one number that, to me, really stood out to me. 49. That's the number of strikes that Wellemeyer threw out of his 90 pitches on the evening. A guy coming back from an elbow injury who barely throws more than half of his pitches for strikes is a huge red flag. Elbow injuries typically manifest themselves as control issues, whereas shoulder issues tend to pop up in the gun readings. He was still throwing hard last night, but he absolutely could not get the ball down. Such a marked lack of command, after the way he had thrown for most of the year, scares the living bejesus out of me. Hopefully, it was just rust, but I worry that Wellemeyer may be throwing on borrowed time right now.
Hmm...I'm looking for good news currently, to try and offset my cavalcade of gloom this morning. Oh, my cat Tennessee doesn't have ringworm like I thought. It's just a rash. Not good enough, huh? Kay. Let's see, anything good.
Albert is going to try and make a comeback more quickly than is being predicted. So, that's pretty good, right? Of course, if he rushes back and hurts himself again, then the season really is over. So, maybe not such a good idea.
Wow, this sucks. Just about a week ago, virtually everything was looking outstanding for the Cardinals. They had a dynamite one two punch at the top of the rotation in Wainwright and Wellemeyer, an offense that was really coming around in June, and a possible cavalry on the way. Now, not so much.
So, are we ready to write off the season? Or do we still think the Cards can hold on long enough to get their players back healthy and make a run? You have to think the Cubs are going to have to come down to earth at least a little, but they look as if they may, in fact, be nearly this good of a team. I would expect them to drop off a bit at home, but it's going to be awfully hard to catch them. Maybe the wild card? I don't necessarily see a whole lot of other teams just catching fire around the league, so the wild card could very well be an option.
So, this is my question to you. What do we do now? Should the Cardinals start looking to sell off some of their valuable veteran pieces and go into that full rebuilding mode that many of us were calling for during the offseason? The Cards have a couple of young pitchers that could probably come up and at least hold their own. Probably a little early, but we could get a look.
Or, should they try to bring in a veteran presence to try and stabilise the team? Brian Roberts still looks to be available, though I'm sure the cost would be pretty steep. I'm sure the Cards could put together a package strong enough to entice the Orioles, but would it be worth it? There are a few veteran pitchers available too, with C.C. Sabathia at the head of the list. I highly doubt the Cards could afford the package that a guy like Sabathia would cost, but there are others that they might be able to afford.
So, that's the question I have for you this morning. With how the Cardinals are standing right now, with bad news flying in from all sides, which way do you think they should go? Tear it apart, or try to buttress the walls? Or, maybe you think it's still way too premature for any of this, and they should just stand pat and see what happens?
I'm really sorry about all the gloom and doom this morning, everybody. Kind of hard to find a silver lining in this particular bank of clouds, though. So, what do we do about it?
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What you do now is
go do some yard work or something and stop thinking about the Cardinals for a few hours. What you do not do is make decisions about tearing or buttressing anything at the end of a week like that. That is a recipe for panicky, bad decisions.
by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 14, 2008 9:57 AM EDT 0 recs
That seems
like a good, sound approach. Still, though, I prefer to panic.
What this book presupposes is, maybe he didn't?
by the red baron on
Jun 14, 2008 9:59 AM EDT
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I agree
The buttressing needs to continue to be from within the organization. Way too early to be talking tearing apart! Very surprising to see you react like this over some bad news and one terrible game.
by gossard56 on Jun 14, 2008 10:00 AM EDT 0 recs
Good news
1) Well, Colby went yard again.
2) Miles did a nice reverse-Ankiel last night.
Um, yeah, that’s all I got.
by mikedallas45 on Jun 14, 2008 10:17 AM EDT 0 recs
does miles get credit for a hold?
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
by sportsman on
Jun 14, 2008 11:35 AM EDT
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I am pretty sure
you have to be leading to get a hold, so…no.
Nice try though!
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Jun 14, 2008 11:44 AM EDT
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Seeing the glass half full
I actually like what I am seeing right now, except for the injuries. I see no reason to either tear it apart or try to make a quick short term improvement. I would be really pissed if we gave away some of our top prospects just to rent Sabathia for a few weeks.
Our outfield is fine. Yadi is having a great year with the bat (remember he is suppose to be a all defense .240 hitting catcher), Glaus has been fine with the glove and his hitting is coming around. Alberts been having a fair year, not great, but I think that’s because they pitch around him so much. Only soft spot is the middle infield which is OK defensively but not contributing much offensively. Starting pitching has been in the top half of all the teams in both leagues as has the relief.
Forget about last night. Every team has a game like that once a season. Just hope you don’t have more than one. Yes we are picking up a few injuries, but every team does that. And no we aren’t going to catch the Cubs and their half billion salary. But we are still having a good year and have a very entertaining ball club.
I think management is on the right track. Churn the roster a bit. Bring up someone from Memphis every couple of weeks and see what they can and can’t do at this level. If some veterans like Kennedy don’t start hitting, dump them. Make a cost effective deal or two next month if it’s there. But don’t go to extremes. Go with the young cost controlled guys. Play moneyball. This team isn’t heading for last place like everyone predicted. Go Cards!
by O'Fallon Park on Jun 14, 2008 10:32 AM EDT 0 recs
Agree
This is a fun team to watch (last night notwithstanding). Re-assess closer to the all-star break to see how Albert, Waino, and Welly are doing, and whether we’re still sniffing the wild card spot. I don’t expect all of Izzy, Mulder, and Clement to be back and producing, but hopefully one or two of them can provide a boost to the team.
by Yellow Dog on
Jun 14, 2008 10:38 AM EDT
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Pujols might have the highest BA of his career
this year. he won’t get as many rbi’s because of being pitched around though. I’d say our MI defense is better than OK too. but yeah, I like what the management is doing, just don’t go to extremes!
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Jun 14, 2008 1:05 PM EDT
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Stand pat...
“momentum” is only as good as the next day’s starting pitcher… a lack of command is also a sign of a guy who hadn’t pitched in eight days. Let’s see what happens in “The Colonel’s” next start.
While the Phillies do have one helluva lineup, they ain’t as good as they looked last night, and the Cardinals ain’t as bad as they looked last night.
Keep “grinding” each at-bat, keep throwing Strike One, and keep playing good defense… that’ll win ya a bunch of games, no matter the injury news.
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on Jun 14, 2008 10:34 AM EDT 0 recs
Whoah
It seems wayyyyy to early to write off the season now. Every team has the one night when everything goes wrong. We have been winning series after series and still can easily win this series. Thankfully, run totals don’t carry over to the next day. We just have to forget about last night, put a couple runs on the board early, and focus on now.
As for what to do at the trade deadline, getting another starting pitcher seems a bit rushed at this point in time, when we have two more pitchers on the way back who haven’t had set-backs, even though they may be long-shots. Shoring up the middle infield would be at the absolute top of my priority list. Plenty of names available when you look past the veteran status – even Ian Stewart of the Rockies could be an option as he has been working at second with Colorado so far.
"because at the end of the day they still are the Chicago Cubs"
by rockin the red on Jun 14, 2008 10:34 AM EDT 0 recs
i agree
no need for more old folks. if any trade is made to shore up the middle infield (and i agree it is our greatest weakness) it should be done looking down the road. blocked minor league guys with real good potential or young veterans should be the target since hoff et al don’t look like they are going to add any pop to the MI. the cupboard is kinda bare in the MI for the next 3 or so years (minimum), so offense from the MI is what i would try to improve. we are playing well and winning at a good rate. things just happen to be better (other worldly even) on planet cubby right now, but we should focus on continuing to build a strong young team and let this year fall where it may. no brian roberts, no ray durham, etc needed. giving up talent is the only way to get young quality players from other organizations (duh), so kinsler, uggla, or even mark ellis will require sacrifice, just gotta hope mo’s crystal ball is working properly when/if he decides to go for one of the young vet or blocked minor league guys. don’t care when he does it,but needs to be done before next year for sure.
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
by sportsman on
Jun 14, 2008 11:48 AM EDT
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we do drop the first game of the series and win the next two
pretty often
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Jun 14, 2008 1:06 PM EDT
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The curse of Paletta strikes again
So this latest surgery on Carp didn’t take….boys, I gotta tell ya, I didn’t see this one coming. Who would have thunk it?
I’m sure not ready to throw in this seasons towel yet, how about you guys?
Steriods is...is bad.
by Handsome Jimmy on Jun 14, 2008 10:35 AM EDT 0 recs
Carp
He was an injury risk when the Cards got him off the scrap heap, and even when he came back and pitched well he was STILL an injury risk…..............
I can’t believe everyone around here thought Carp was going to finish out his career healthy. It’s like thinking AJ Burnett or Mark Prior would/will finish their career healthy..
I think people need to stop bringing up Carp, who cares if he comes back this year. I sure as hell would not push it. He will not contribute much in my opinion if he does come back this year….
Just wait and see with Carp, but it’s foolish to think he is going to come back and just be some stud who never will get hurt…. LOOK AT HIS HISTORY!
by ICbirdfan on
Jun 14, 2008 10:42 AM EDT
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Yep, I hardly ever
agree with you on most any subject, but my friend you have nailed this one on the head.
Steriods is...is bad.
by Handsome Jimmy on
Jun 14, 2008 10:47 AM EDT
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+1
absolutely true
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
by sportsman on
Jun 14, 2008 11:50 AM EDT
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This would make sense, EXCEPT
Carp’s return has been the cornerstone of the Cardinals entire strategy for the season. Remember the old question: Are we rebuilding or contending? The Cardinals’ answer to that, demonstrated by moves such as picking up Piniero, Walley, and Lohse, was that we would contend. And the rationale was that hopefully we would hang in there during the first half, and then, with Carp back, would suddenly transform into a playoff caliber team. Remember that theory? Well, it’s still the modus operandi of the 2008 Cardinals.
If we are going to abadon this strategy, then that will be a very big deal. It will mean, in particular, that we need to figure out who we will trade away this July.
The bad thing about Carp’s setback is that now we are pinning our hopes to some extent on Mulder and Clement—sucker’s bets if I ever saw one.
Oh well. We’re committed at this point. It’s too late to pursue a building strategy in earnest. But the unexpected good news is that we were much better than we thought we were to begin with.
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on
Jun 14, 2008 12:45 PM EDT
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But with this year...
I’d pin my hopes on Wagonmaker; Lohse; Pineiro, Colonel, and Looper as long as they can stay healthy. We can contend with that.
by Evilfrog on
Jun 14, 2008 1:08 PM EDT
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I think we neet a bit more
I agree that we’ve done fantastic so far with this contingent. But we also have played relatively weak teams. My fear is that the NL East and the Cubs are going to beat this group down, unless we get some kind of improvement.
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on
Jun 14, 2008 1:10 PM EDT
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well
it will force us to bring up some AAA starters, which is more interesting anyway
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Jun 14, 2008 1:08 PM EDT
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Wellemeyer
Anytime there’s discomfort to the elbow, there’s cause for concern but I’m not really bothered by his inability to throw strikes last night. Wellemeyer’s only recently become a strike-throwing machine and so it’s not that surprising to me that, given 8 days off, he’d have some trouble throwing strikes upon his return. Hopefully, he just needed to shake loose some of the cobwebs and he’ll be ok next time out. I think it’s premature to believe that a guy who’s had trouble throwing strikes his entire career until this year is injured simply b/c he has trouble throwing strikes his first start out following injury. You may be right, but I’ll need to see more evidence than one bad start.
by chuckb on Jun 14, 2008 10:43 AM EDT 1 recs
The Three HR's...
I think any pitcher would be justifiably gun-shy after giving up three home-runs in a matter of minutes.
by duncans_army on
Jun 14, 2008 11:50 AM EDT
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yeah
he could just be out of his routine after having the time off. dude was on a roll.
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Jun 14, 2008 1:08 PM EDT
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It's only one game and it's not like we got ripped up by the Padres bats...
The Phils got some pop in thier line-up.
Let’s see how the series goes and then we can freak out if we get shelled the next two games and the offense continues to sputter.
If it all does go to hell then I would say trade the contracts due to expire and bring up the kids and see what we have for next year.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on Jun 14, 2008 10:44 AM EDT 0 recs
No easy answer, need define goals of this team.
Not to dismiss this current team because they have been the most fun cardinal team to watch for me in recent memory. No I’m not ready to tear it down, but nor do I want to rush guys back and risk having an injury filled year next year also. I mean we are better set up to win next year as opposed to this year are we not? As a cardinal fan it is a bitter pill to watch the Cubs pull farther and farther away though. I say it’s Colby time and lets start to get some work in for the guys who are gonna play a huge role in this next cardinal generation and shed some guys are are not.
by ghostofjimlindeman on Jun 14, 2008 10:46 AM EDT 0 recs
i'd wait
the differential colby will bring to the offense relartive to what we are getting now is not likely to be very positive and could be negative. will he contribute more than ankiel or ludwick; i doubt it. more than skippy or dunc, maybe, but not likely right away. i think it is best for all concerned to wait longer, even until september, to alter the current outfield mix unless we move one of them in a trade, such as barton (or get a deal where we can send him where he needs to go, memphis).
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
by sportsman on
Jun 14, 2008 11:55 AM EDT
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where the heck are they going to put Colby?
it ain’t Colby time until they move some outfielders in a trade or something
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Jun 14, 2008 1:10 PM EDT
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I am going to reply on this to death, so don't be a hatin on me
you call up Colby and play him. You have Colby, Ludwick, and Ankiel as your starters. Contrary to popular belief, Tony will play an everyday outfield, you have to look no farther back than 2004 or 2005 to see it. Three worthy OFs are needed though. You keep Skippy and Barton on the bench or use them to give an occasional day off.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Jun 14, 2008 1:33 PM EDT
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in that case
who gets to play CF? I’d hope they would keep Ank there… but does Colby want to be moved out of center?
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Jun 14, 2008 1:39 PM EDT
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If that is what would be holding it up
I am pretty sure that is the least of our concerns.
But I say Ank., saying it altough I have no idea how Ras would play in LF. Since he is supposed to be a pretty damn good defensive player though, I think he could make the move.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Jun 14, 2008 2:00 PM EDT
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I would like to add that the Philies have a real nice looking team
from top to bottom and really like their crusty old manager. I was hoping that our team would end up with that type of manager this offseason.
Steriods is...is bad.
by Handsome Jimmy on Jun 14, 2008 10:52 AM EDT 0 recs
instead we have an even better manager
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Jun 14, 2008 1:10 PM EDT
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Can anyone answer this?
Did Springer intentionally throw at Howard? Why? Down by 17 or 18 runs, why in the hell would we throw at anyone?
by chuckb on Jun 14, 2008 10:52 AM EDT 0 recs
Threw inside, hit Howard on the thigh............
I think there was a purpose in going inside, but the purpose was to back a guy off the plate who was real hot last night and just too comfortable…....
I don’t think he hit him on purpose though. If a pitcher is really upset and really wants to hit a guy he will generally aim for the rib area.
by ICbirdfan on
Jun 14, 2008 10:56 AM EDT
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There is no way to know for sure
but I would say yes. Two home runs, one of which he admired a little too long, makes me think that. Plus Springer is not exactly a wild thrower. I think he precisely hit his location…..
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on
Jun 14, 2008 10:56 AM EDT
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I think not
especially since he basically said if that is the way the umpires were going to be , he might think retiring, cuz he isn’t going to quit pitching inside
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Jun 14, 2008 11:01 AM EDT
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The last thing you wanted to last night
Was use another pitcher.
by Evilfrog on
Jun 14, 2008 11:38 AM EDT
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+1
but the philly guy should have been bounced as well
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
by sportsman on
Jun 14, 2008 11:56 AM EDT
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As regards Welle throwing strikes
The other guys weren’t throwing strikes either. Every pitcher the Cardinals ran out there except Worrell (and Miles, if he counts as a pitcher) had a strike percentage that was well below par. Wellemeyer threw 53% of his pitches for strikes; Villone threw 55%; Springer threw 58%; Franklin (statistics-of-small-numbers alert) threw 57%. By contrast, Kendrick was well into the 60s, Condrey into the 70s.
I don’t know what to make of these number, but I’m just sayin’.
by StanTheManFan on Jun 14, 2008 10:55 AM EDT 0 recs
think they were all out partying
too late the night before?
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
Jun 14, 2008 1:12 PM EDT
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Of course he threw at Howard
and it was about time, and of course TLR had to grandstand. It’s old time baseball, no big deal. The Phillies sure acted like no big deal and responded the correct way by throwing behind and not hitting our batter the next inning. Messages were sent and no one got hurt.
Steriods is...is bad.
by Handsome Jimmy on Jun 14, 2008 10:56 AM EDT 0 recs
agree.........Howard knew Springer was going to come inside.
Springer kept it low and thats why Howard just walked to 1B
by ICbirdfan on
Jun 14, 2008 10:57 AM EDT
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I think the Phillies handled
the hit by pitch much better than the Cards did. Of course they were leading by more than two touchdowns at the time.
Steriods is...is bad.
by Handsome Jimmy on
Jun 14, 2008 10:59 AM EDT
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maybe Greg Maddux could be had for cheap
it’s not like the Padres need an aging veteran like that, and it’d buy us some time to get the rotation back in shape.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on Jun 14, 2008 11:01 AM EDT 0 recs
I cannot see Maddux ever coming here. If they are calling the Padres, they should ask for
Randy Wolf. He’s younger, he’s pretty good, and he’s a lefty. But he’s someone you could try to sign for next year too.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on
Jun 14, 2008 11:06 AM EDT
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injuries
injuries injuries injuries injures.
Something that we do NOT need any more of at this point!
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
Jun 14, 2008 2:39 PM EDT
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as for Maddux
does he ever get injured? Maybe his good luck would rub off on the team
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Jun 14, 2008 2:45 PM EDT
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Agree on the concern about the Colonel's elbow
disagree about the panic. I still think we have to look at it like any success this year’s team has is gravy and set things up for ‘09.
RB, I think you are right on regarding Welle’s elbow and I don’t see the point in running him back out there so soon. I really don’t think there is any question that the correlation between elbow issues and control is a pretty tight one. Most guys who are tough enough to get to the bigs are not going to tell you anything is wrong with their arm unless it is fairly serious. Pitchers deal with pain on a regular basis when things are going well.
I just think they should have been more cautious with him, but I can imagine that the choice came down to pitching Welle, doing a bullpen start, or calling up Reyes. If that is true then the decision, while disappointing, is not surprising.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on Jun 14, 2008 11:01 AM EDT 0 recs
I am more concerned
that the Colonel’s elbow may soon be placed in the hands of good old Doc Paletta and his career could then be in jeopardy.
Steriods is...is bad.
by Handsome Jimmy on
Jun 14, 2008 11:06 AM EDT
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I think the real concern should be
why do the Cardinals send so many pitchers to “good old Doc Paletta”, or any other doctor, in the first place? All this whining about medical treatment is at least totally uninformed and probably baseless.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on
Jun 14, 2008 11:48 AM EDT
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True
But you also have to wonder why so many Cardinal players experience “set backs” in their rehab and require multiple DL stints and additional surgery. I’m not a doctor—not by a long shot. But I do wonder why we seem to have so much trouble getting people back healthy on their projected return dates.
by Ray Lankford on
Jun 14, 2008 12:04 PM EDT
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Rotoworld writer says
“something’s wrong with Cards medical staff” in his blurb on Carp. Duh.
I’d like to hear Bernie, Strauss, Goold, ask Mo/DeWitt some questions about rehab procedures.
I’d also like to know if the Cards are using 3-D motion analysis to check pitchers’ biomechanics. And hitters too.
by gocards62 on
Jun 14, 2008 12:15 PM EDT
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Right
I’m not throwing anyone under the bus—yet, at least. Its just weird how we have such a difficult time with things like this. I look at guys like BJ Ryan, who come back from TJ surgery on schedule and return to being effective right away and wonder, “why can’t we do that?”
There has to be an explanation for why Cardinals have such a hard time coming back from surgery. Maybe its the medical staff, maybe its the physical therapists, maybe its the coaches. It just seems like something’s not right. I would like to know why.
by Ray Lankford on
Jun 14, 2008 12:26 PM EDT
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My Opinion: Paletta's Ethics Are Compromised
I’m kind of going out on a limb here, but I think the problem is not that Paletta’s incompetent, but that he’s compromised his opinions to serve the interests of the team management. Essentially, I think Palletta tells the management what they want to hear far too often.
There’s nearly always uncertainty in medical opinions. But I think Paletta consistantly resolves these uncertainlies in one direction—the direction that TLR wants to hear.
It’s not like Palletta has a great track record. Why, then, do the Cards keep him on? Because he plays ball with management, that’s why.
TLR’s obsession with squeezing every ounce of value out of players is a terrific approach for winning, and for managing your way into the hall of fame. I think, however, that it is a poor strategy for managing the medical treatment of your players.
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on
Jun 14, 2008 12:53 PM EDT
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Maybe we need a new family of statistics
to track individual physicians and teams track records on both the occurrence of pitching injuries and the rehabilitation of those injuries.
I come here for insightful, fact-based opinions on the team and the game, so all this totally speculative stuff about the medical people is just not interesting to me. When Paletta operated on my son’s non-pitching shoulder he came highly recommended by specialists that I trust and acquitted himself very well. He seems to be a brilliant and caring physician. My son’s rehab went according to schedule and he had no setbacks and no after effects.
I think it is just a risk of the business when part of your strategy to contain cost is to get recycled pitchers from the scrap heap that is compounded by over a decade of poor player development.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on
Jun 14, 2008 2:30 PM EDT
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Well to be fair
Mulder is not a “recycled pitcher from the scrap heap” and the Cardinals had nothing to do with his development. Dude was a stud. Now, you can say, “maybe someone should have noticed differences in his delivery.” Fair enough. But I’ve got to think that the medical staff has a hand in that analysis. Or what about Rolen? He played here for years before any problems arose. Definitely not a scrap-heaper. Already an established major leaguer, so no prob. with the Cards development. I’m just saying . . .
I’m sure Paletta’s a fine surgeon. I’m glad your son’s surgery went well, and I can appreciate the fact that Paletta comes highly recommended. But I just don’t think you can ignore the possibility that something is going on and hold the Cardinals because of their player strategy. That seems way too conclusory . . . especially for someone who finds “totally speculative stuff” uninteresting.
by Ray Lankford on
Jun 14, 2008 2:54 PM EDT
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We can all evaluate
player’s past performance and future potential by watching them play and evaluating the various statistical measures. We have no data (that I am aware of) on pitcher injuries, doctor’s success, rehab strategies, etc. that would allow us to compare various MLB teams. So what basically happens is we have guys get hurt, they don’t recover as well as we like, we get pissed off, and we want to blame somebody.
So we get totally unsubstantiated rants that question the competency and ethics of people they do not know, have never seen perform, and have absolutely no back up. I just don’t think that advances anybody’s understanding of the game or improves the community environment.
I doubt any of us really know who was involved in the evaluation of Mark Mulder prior to the trade or what evaluation was actually done. I have no idea what dynamic exists between Paletta and the training staff. I don’t know whether Mulder has followed his training regimen precisely – I think he pretty much said he pushed too hard after the first surgery.
I also think players deserve some of the blame for believing they can play injured and are just as guilty of delaying surgical options as team management and the medical staff.
Finally, I don’t “hold the Cardinals soley (sic) responsible because of their player strategy.” I believe what I said was that having chronically injured pitchers is sympomatic of “recycled pitchers from the scrap heap.” Whether Mulder was damaged goods or not when we traded for him, he certainly was on the scrap heap when we signed him to essentially a two-year contract.
As far as Rolen goes, who knows? The freakish nature of his original shoulder injury makes you wonder about the original strength/stability of the joint. It isn’t like he exactly set the world on fire after Kremchek operated on him either as he has 3 HRs in 179 PAs this year in a RH hitter friendly park.
I understand that people have a right to their opinions, I just believe you need some sort of tangible information if you are going to question a person’s competency and/or ethics.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on
Jun 14, 2008 8:19 PM EDT
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Not questioning compentency or ethics
Just resuls. Why they aren’t there, I don’t know. Maybe its the management’s fault. Maybe the players. Maybe the medical staff. I don’t fucking know. Questioning isn’t accusing. My “rant” was no more unsubstantiated than yours. Chill out.
by Ray Lankford on
Jun 14, 2008 11:39 PM EDT
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FWIW
the rant I was referring to was not your post, but the one I originally commented on.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on
Jun 15, 2008 12:11 AM EDT
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I just hope the team thinks it is gravy too
I would hate for them to mortgage the future in an attempt to make up for all these injuries. Please, please do not make any major trades before APu or WW come back.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on
Jun 14, 2008 11:07 AM EDT
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so on top of that whole crapfest last night
Goold reports Mather and Worrell are being optioned out today.
I can see optioning Worrell out, just to get a fresh arm up (and it can’t be Jiminez, so yay!), but if Mather is sent down and Colby is not called up, I might be so pissed I won’t watch the game today.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
by mattyfrommo on Jun 14, 2008 11:04 AM EDT 0 recs
The Mather option was a suprise
to me, not on board that option at all.
Steriods is...is bad.
by Handsome Jimmy on
Jun 14, 2008 11:09 AM EDT
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Mather needs to play
so I don’t have a problem w/ him being sent down. He’s not playing in St. Louis. I just wonder who’ll replace him. And for that matter, who’s gonna replace Worrell? Is it Motte’s turn?
by chuckb on
Jun 14, 2008 11:13 AM EDT
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Izzy replacing Worrell, maybe?
Still not sure who the replacement for Mather is. It might make sense to bring up Josh Phelps (even though he’s unimpressive at Memphis) and let Mather get some time at first base.
by StanTheManFan on
Jun 14, 2008 11:15 AM EDT
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Oh, but Phelps has been hot his last few games there.....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.


