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bearing the cost

i’m getting really tired of writing about injuries.

under other circumstances i might get out the ol' calculator and try to estimate, down to the run, the cost of albert’s absence; that’s the exercise i ran through back in 2006 when he hit the dl. but i’m not gonna bother this time. as i learned in 2006, such estimates mean nothing when applied to a short sample of games. during albert’s 15-game absence that season, the cardinal offense inexplicably caught fire --- a team batting line of .304 / .354 / .467 and a scoring average of 5.7 runs a game, all figures well above their season averages. no reason for it, really; just good timing on the part of the other hitters. i wouldn’t bet on that happening again during 2008 --- even having watched them plate 10 last night --- but if it does, it wouldn’t be the strangest thing in the world. so far, june has been the cards’ best-hitting month of 2008 (7.1 runs a game through 10 games), and not because of albert --- he has only started 6 of the team’s 10 games this month, posting a .167 / .355 / 458 line. we have to expect pujols’ absence to catch up to them at some point --- if they don’t miss him, then why the hell are they paying him $16m a year? --- but the cost may only be a win or 2 over the term of his disablement. if that’s the cost, they can bear it.

i’m not particularly concerned about the offense anyway. to me, it’s still about run prevention. the cardinals are winning this year for 3 reasons: they play superior defense; they don’t issue walks; and they don't give up home runs. st louis ranks among the league’s top 3 teams in all those categories; they don't do anything else particularly well except hit singles and draw walks. but if they can continue to play D, throw strikes, and keep the ball in the yard while pujols is gone, they’ll probably hang in there in the standings. again, albert’s 2006 disablement is instructive: even though the cardinals kept scoring runs, they started losing games because his absence coincided with a collapse of the pitching staff, which in turn was occasioned by mark mulder’s injury. st louis posted a 5.09 era for the first 13 games of albert’s dl stint, and then yielded 33 runs during the last 2 games to push their non-albert era to 6.73; if anything remotely similar happens this year, the cards will likely fall out of contention. and we can’t rule out that possibility --- not with wainwright disabled. also, let’s not forget that pujols is a big part of the st louis defense; he’s one of the game’s most impactful glovemen at any position. they might miss his defense nearly as much as they miss his bat.

but the formula i offered on tuesday vis-vis wainwright’s absence --- try to stay within striking distance, then close strong when the team gets healthy --- still applies. i fully expect the cardinals to sink in the standings (duh) while their best starting pitcher and best hitter are on the shelf, but as long as the pitching doesn’t implode they probably won’t fall way off the pace. if albert misses 30 games and the team wins 13 of them, they’ll have plenty of time to turn things back around once he returns --- and 13 wins should be easy if they pitch and play defense. but if the pitching falters and they only win 9 or 10 out of the 30, it might be a different story.

the 1987 team offers another precedent that’s worth looking at. those cardinals lost jack clark to an oblique strain at the most critical point in the season --- september 10, with st louis clinging to a 1.5-game lead over the mets. clark was every bit the offensive centerpiece that albert pujols is --- he was the only cardinal with more than 12 homers that year, the only one with a slugging average higher than .434, and one of only 3 with an ops+ higher than 100. ozzie and pendleton had 105 and 103 ops+s, respectively; everybody else was below average with the bat. clark was truly the only dangerous hitter in that lineup; there was no ludwick, glaus, ankiel or duncan on hand to pick up the slack. after he went out the offense crumbled: st louis hit .217 / .281 / .307 over the last 24 games of the year and scored just 87 runs, or 3.6 per game (vs an average of 5.2 per game and a .271 / .349 / .390 line before clark got hurt). but the cardinals went 14-10 down the stretch and won the division anyway because they pitched. the staff era was 3.11 over the last 24 games (vs 4.06 in the first 138 games), and that includes two lickings on the last two days of the season, after the title was already clinched; remove those games (which were largely pitched by scrubs) and the staff had a 2.61 era over 22 games after clark left the lineup. st louis went 14-8 in those games even though they couldn’t score. they won 3 games by a 3-2 score, another by 3-1; they also swept a doubleheader against the expos despite scoring only 4 runs in the two games combined, winning 3-0 and 1-0. as always, it’s about the pitching.

from that standpoint, looper’s performance last night was extremely heartening. prior to that he had only thrown one quality start since april, and only 4 on the season. he is capable of running off a string of effective starts, and now would be the perfect time for him to exhibit that ability. the cards are also preparing to welcome isringhausen back to the staff, though (thankfully) not as the closer. i’m skeptical that he can contribute, but i’m rooting for the guy to prove me wrong. if he can start getting guys out, it’ll ease the load on the starting pitchers; not many teams can throw somebody like izzy or mcclellan or perez out there in the 6th inning.

nice to hear, by the way, that matt morris showed up at izzy’s first rehab start down in florida; way to go, matty mo.

mike parisi threw a complete-game 4-hitter in his first game back down at memphis, throwing 73 strikes in 103 pitches; maybe we haven’t seen the last of that guy. and jess todd followed isringhausen to the mound at springfield and dominated, throwing the last 7.1 innings of the game and allowing just 1 run (unearned) while getting 14 groundouts. he has been a professional player for less than a year but already is banging on the door of the big leagues, thanks in large part (as derrick goold writes at Bird Land) to the emergence of his cut fastball. in 70 innings this year he has allowed just 1 homer and is holding opposing batters to a .178 average. the guy just turned 22 years old, but the organization apparently is watching. . . . .

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Comments

Display:

The standings sure are encouraging

I’m not sure I see the Cubs offense letting up, but if we can bide our time and get healthy the wild card is certainly within reach.

by sdrone on Jun 12, 2008 9:01 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Soriano is out

with a broken bone in his hand. Hate to see anybody get hurt but this can’t do anything but hurt thier offense.

by DJ4508 on Jun 12, 2008 9:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Was just about to say the same thing

I hate to see any player on any team get hurt, but I won’t lie that seeing the Cubs best hitter go down at the same time (and perhaps longer than) as Pujols makes it a little easier to swallow. We just need to stay within 5 games or so til the All Star break….

by joecardsfan on Jun 12, 2008 9:53 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Cubs have less holes in the lineup

D-Lee has, surprisingly, slumped during the Cubs’ amazing run over the last 20 games or so…

by silent_bob on Jun 12, 2008 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The cubs' achilles heel is pitching as much as ours is, if not moreso

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jun 12, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But at least...

they’ve got Zambrano healthy. If they lose him, they’ll be where we are.

by guayzimi on Jun 12, 2008 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

zambrano AND dempster

by njnick on Jun 12, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

their pitching staff looks awfully good to me

first in the league in ERA, second in strikeouts, 2nd in hits per inning . . . . . i don’t see it as a weakness.

check out their team stats - http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHC/2008.shtml

by lboros on Jun 12, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only weakness

Is a goat or something. Im just so happy this is a rebuilding year for us.

by Evilfrog on Jun 12, 2008 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It has been fantastic...

but I think people are expecting Dempster to revert, Lilly to prove that he’s lost it, Rich Hill to be a permanent bust, Wood to reinjure himself etc… Of course, one can do this with any staff.

I don’t think it much matters. The staff could melt down and they would still win >95 games on their offense alone.

by guayzimi on Jun 12, 2008 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kudos

Hate to see anyone go down with an injury. That was the sentiment at BCB regarding Pujols’ injury.

"What a great call! Your doing a fantastic job, but people expect me to come out here and be upset. So I'm gonna kick some dirt, you understand?" - Lou Pinella

by Lou In Blue on Jun 12, 2008 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's right.

It’s bad karma to do anything but feel bad for the injured guy, and the team. Because don’t we know how it feels to have a player go down…....

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 12, 2008 2:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Last time Soriano was out

a month or so ago, their winning percentage improved.

by sdrone on Jun 12, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Loosing Soriano is bad but...

I doubt it will do much to slow down the Cubs. Now if they were to loose Derek Lee and or Zambrano that would be a big blow. The thing about this Cubs team is and it’s been mentioned above is that they really have no holes right now. They have two starters (Big Z & Dempster) pitching great, they are getting huge production from their entire line-up and scoring a lot of runs at Wrigley and their bullpen has been real steady for the most part. Plus they have a lot of confidence when they play at home as their home record shows. I don’t think loosing Soriano will hurt them that much as long as Lee, Theriot, DeRosa, and and Fukudome contine to rake the ball at Wrigley. The only thing that can slow the Cubs down is if they were to go on a long road trip against some tough teams.

by KYCards on Jun 12, 2008 2:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Keep your dobber up, Larry!

Times like these make being a Cardinal fan fun. Because we’ve had a lot of success we need not succumb to existential despair as though we were Cincy or Pittsburgh fans. And this is the best kind of drama because no one - no screenwriter, no producer - actually knows what the outcome of this passion play will be. I’m determined not to get too grim about a season that few of us had many expectations for in the first place. Now is the time for the unexpected—and I’m expecting it. We’ll hold our own and it should be a fun ride. And even in the worst of cases we’ll gather new information that will help us down the road.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 12, 2008 9:06 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I can't believe I the second half of that game.

I had to leave after the 5th inning. I’d figured we’d hold on to the 6 run lead at that point. But I expected Looper to throw a complete game shutout with only 3 hits and no walks about as much as I would expect LaRue to hit a 2 run homer.

I really do love this team. Ankiel, Glaus, Ludwick just need to step up a little bit. Or just take turns stepping up a lot. Each of these players can carry a team for a week. And we’ve seen it from each of them this year.

by Evilfrog on Jun 12, 2008 9:19 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Can't tell if you are kidding about Ludwick stepping it up

but if he steps any higher he’s gonna hit the stratosphere! Dude’s line is .321 / .393 / .684 with 16 bombs and 52 RBIs!

Without a doubt, he’s been the most suprising addition to this year’s club. At least for me. If, at the beginning of the year, showed me that stat line and asked me “who’s line is that as of June 12?” I would have definitely said “Pujols.” It wouldn’t even be a question, really. Pujols may be the mang, but Ludwick is the man.

I totally agree about Ankiel and Glaus stepping it up. Imagine if Glaus started producing on pace with his career numbers and Ankiel raises his BA about 10 – 15 points and gets his slugging up into the low .500s. We’d have a pretty fierce lineup.

by Ray Lankford on Jun 12, 2008 10:25 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

glaus is getting awfully close

112 OPS+ in 2008 as of this moment, 120 for his career. the power’s still not quite there but recent signs have been very encouraging – the 5 HR in 8 games recently was nice.

go cards, o's, and phillies.

...boiler up.

by moboiler on Jun 12, 2008 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Stan

Stan IS the Man.

Lud is a Stud!

C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!

by yer dog first on Jun 12, 2008 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looper mentioned that Dave Duncan &

Marty Mason recognizing that he was rushing his motion and pitches during his scuffling and suggested for him to slow things down a bit. Huh, maybe that was the difference.

The two also suggested to Izzy to do the oppisite of Looper and more or less quit dawlding on the mound, but rather to get into a groove and just throw the damn ball.

Sould be interesting to see, but I agree with Larry, I am not at all excited to see Izzy back with the big team. Too many recent bad memories that tends to make fuzzy the good memories.

Steriods is...is bad.

by Handsome Jimmy on Jun 12, 2008 9:52 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

One of Izzy's strengths...

...is a bad memory! (No, I’m not kidding.) He’s been able to faggettaboud bad outings, and toe the rubber the next time with the same confidence that he’ll get those so-and-so’s out. Other closers (Lidge, et. al.) have had problems carrying one bad outing into the next.

No, I’m not suggesting Izzy be “given” the ninth inning right away; but if he’s corrected his mechanical problems, and is effective whenever he does pitch, I’ll be happy to see him back in his familiar role, closing.

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Jun 12, 2008 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

if the cutter's working, then he should be fine

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jun 12, 2008 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that Izzy has always had a bad memory

but that is what scares me about Izzy this time. His statements before hitting the DL sounded like he was remembering a lot. Maybe he has put it behind him, we’ll find out soon enough. He just sounded like he was broken last time we saw him.

by MotherTruckinSteve on Jun 12, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Izzy Was Just Fatigued

Too many close games; too many outings.

I suspect that the answer will be to use Franklin occasionally as the closer to keep Izzy rested, but that we will end up reserving Izzy for crucial games. I think he needs just a few extra days off, and he’ll be regular old, unhittable Izzy. Like he was at the beginning of the season.

My prediction: Izzy will be closing games again within two weeks.

So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)

by Titus Pullo on Jun 12, 2008 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Closer rotation?

I totally agree on the fatigue and hope the Cardinals don’t over work him. I also wish they’d go for a closer rotation, if Izzy performs well. I don’t know how much it works beyond recollections of the 1990 Reds, and I also don’t know if this goes against Tony’s ideas at all.

Izzy and Franklin are all big boys and I would think no egos would come into play. It should help Izzy too, his age and hip condition aren’t helping his stamina any. Plus it might be a good way to work Perez/Kmac in some 8 inning high leverage situations.

by enoscountry on Jun 12, 2008 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah. He did see a lot of work early on and he did help us get a great start. Maybe less work for

him will help. They should play him like you would a starting catcher with a go to guy for back to back nights.

You could have Franky back him up but I would like to see the Birds break the seal on Perez in the 9th.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Jun 12, 2008 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Izzy
not many teams can throw somebody like izzy or mcclellan or perez out there in the 6th inning.

Yeah, but Ryan Franklin is still toting the rubber in the 9th inning of close games (sigh)...

by silent_bob on Jun 12, 2008 10:08 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

gulp

"Cross a lawyer with the Godfather, make you an offer you can't understand" - Don Henley

by TurdFerguson on Jun 12, 2008 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you're saying you're comfortable

with him holding a 2-run lead in the ninth?

Strong stomach you have there.

by silent_bob on Jun 12, 2008 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not anymore,

I was very comfortable with his WXRL, however, as someone pointed out his peripherals made him a ticking time bomb and we’re starting to see it.

"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"

by rocKStark5 on Jun 12, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can handle Franklin untill he puts a horrible string together...........

As a closer it does not matter how you get outs, it’s all about getting outs and closing the game…. I think you follow STL too closely because if you look around MLB there is not more than one closer a year who just flat out dominates….....

Hell Joe Borowski had 45 saves and 8 blown saves last year! Heck he could have easily blown about 20 saves last year…...

So as a closer it’s about results, it’s not a beauty contenst.

by ICbirdfan on Jun 12, 2008 10:31 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's like the CDC saying

I can handle the bird flu until it’s an epidemic.

If a player doesn’t project well in a role, why keep him there until the actual implosion. The team should be proactive in addressing those types of situations.

by azruavatar on Jun 12, 2008 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

so...

...who would you have closing right now? Perez?

by sbentley on Jun 12, 2008 10:39 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not necessarily advocating a change

I’m disagreeing with the logic that we should wait until things fall apart to address a potential problem.

by azruavatar on Jun 12, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But, this might oddly work out just like we need it to.

We had a really good discussion this winter about how a great bullpen should be arranged. I believe that all of us generally agreed that the best reliever(s) should be used in the highest leveraged situation in the game, which is NOT necessarily the 9th inning. I.E., your closer shouldn’t always be your best reliever. That role should be for a “fireman”. Izzy, KMac, and Perez all will make GREAT firemen. Would you rather see Franklin come in with 1 out and the sacks jammed in the 7th, or would you rather see him pitch with nobody on and a 2-run lead in the 9th?

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jun 12, 2008 11:46 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

how do you know the highest leverage situation

Until the game is over, you don’t know when the highest leverage will occur. So, it’s reasonable to save your best for the last inning. Burning through your best high leverage relievers in the 7th and 8th could leave you exposed in the 9th and force you to throw someone completely unable to handle that situation

by MotherTruckinSteve on Jun 12, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But if you don't get out of the jam in the 7th, then there is NO leverage in the 8th or 9th.

Help me with this LB. You had a lengthy post about how the greatest bullpens in recent memory had 2 good relievers, and the best one wasn’t necessarily the closer. I know the Cubs come to mind right now. Marmol is their best arm, but he is not the closer. Detroit was closing with Todd Jones, but was using Zumaya and Rodney in high-leverage situations. Both of those guys were better pitchers than Jones.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jun 12, 2008 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You do know when the other team's 3-4-5 are up

with runners on. That will probably be the highest leverage situation. if those guys are up in the eighth, why wait ‘till the ninth to use your best bullpen guy against the other team’s scrubs. That’s more the key to this leverage argument than anything else.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on Jun 12, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

well stated valatan

eckstreem, to answer your question - i don’t specifically recall the post you are referring to. but i agree w/ your basic point, which is that leverage, and not inning, should determine when you use your best reliever(s). the best reliever on the staff (currently perez, in my opinion) should be available for use any time from the 7th inning on when the opposing team’s best hitters are up with a chance to put their team into the lead. that’s not how tony (like most managers) decides when to use a guy; he decides based on the inning, as opposd to the degree of danger.

by lboros on Jun 12, 2008 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

couldn't agree more

he may be young, but no one else on the staff has anywhere near the stuff that Perez has. He also has the closers mentality, which seems kinda important.
I think from here on out I am going to chart which batters in the order Perez faces. It might just be fun.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 12, 2008 5:22 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

fair enough

but leverage could return in the 8th or 9th with help from your teams bats. I certainly think it is reasonable to throw your best reliever into a 7th inning situation where 3-4-5 are coming up. It’s reasonable to assume that will be the highest leverage situation seen in a game. I just think that the ninth is different from all other innings, at least on the road, because your offense has no chance to respond. This has to increase the pressure to get outs. As such a game should be manages such that you have a high quality reliever to take the mound in the ninth. This doesn’t have to be your absolute best arm, but I like the idea of designating a single person to that role.

by MotherTruckinSteve on Jun 12, 2008 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree and disagree

Obviously I don’t like using a guy who does not fit/make sense in a certain role…....

I think Perez would be best but I guess he still needs some “seasoning”, I don’t really agree with that but I guess TLR does…....

At this point Franklin is doing good enough. If he shows signs of sucking I am confident that Perez will take over.

by ICbirdfan on Jun 12, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because I don't care nearly enough about projects as I do resaults.

Snice franklin has arrived in St. Louis he has been great for the team.

Last year:

He pitched 80 innings with a 1.01 WHIP with 44Ks vs 11BBs

This year:

He has pitched 29.1 innings with an alarming 1.30 WHIP with 13Ks vs 20 BB.

He hasn’t been as good as he was last year. But snice coming to St. Louis I haven’t seen anything that would make me worried everytime he took the mound.

If he can handle a 2 run lead in the 8th he can handle a 2 run lead in the 9th

by Evilfrog on Jun 12, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's how teams make bad deals

because they simply look at results. That’s a short-sighted and frankly limited way to look at things. I’d even go so far as to say that it’s wrong. The only real use for “results” is to use them to project the future. What Ryan Franklin did for us yesterday means nothing if we know he can’t do it tomorrow.

You can quibble about how much results matter but your flat out wrong if you don’t look at what a player should do in the future.

I’m using absolutist statements for effect not because they are reality.

by azruavatar on Jun 12, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agree to a point

But you have to be very careful about disregarding results and banking only on indicators.

Going back to your bird flu mention earlier – the flu had indicators that it could be a global pandemic, but no proof that it could migrate yet. Would you have been in favor of shutting down air travel into and out of Asia because there were indicators that it could spread?

I think the best use of indicators is to highlight areas where you need to pay attention – not base decisions on them. Decisions have to be made based on a mix of results and indicators.

by birdo rojo on Jun 12, 2008 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Over the last two years I have seen nothing

To convince me that Franklin can’t do this job. Except to be concerned when he gets closer to 70 IPs. He isn’t the youngest buck on the team.

But snice stepping into our bullpen he has been fantastic. And has shown no indications that he would slop.

Come to think of it. Why doesn’t he project as a closer exactly?

by Evilfrog on Jun 12, 2008 12:41 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Too many walks,

too many fly balls, too few strikeouts to get out of jams. This stuff isn’t rocket science…

by guayzimi on Jun 12, 2008 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to doubt you but… has it ever been proven that you need those qualities to be successful as a closer or is it more of a common sense deduction?

by birdo rojo on Jun 12, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well...

I think it’s been proven that you need those qualities to be a good pitcher in any capacity.

There have been elite closers that walk more than they should (Francisco Rodriguez, Billy Wagner, Joe Nathan) or that have a low groundball % (Hoffman, Papelbon, Lidge pre-collapse). They make up for it by relying on an overpowering specialty pitch and racking up strike outs.

Never has there been an effective closer over the long-term with Franklin’s numbers.

by guayzimi on Jun 12, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your use of never is a bit generous

since the closer as we know it has only existed for a few years.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jun 12, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I seem to remember...

a guy named Sutter heading out for one-inning stints… I wish that were only a few years ago. Maybe Franklin can become another Todd Jones, but why settle for that when Chris Perez is on the roster?

by guayzimi on Jun 12, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because

I’d rather see Perez strike out the #4 man in the 8th with one out and 2 men on than see him throw against the bottom of the order in the 9th to preserve a 3-run lead.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jun 12, 2008 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

a guy named Sutter

headed out for a whole hell of a lot than just one inning stints.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 12, 2008 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't think of any good/great closer

that hasn’t had at least one devastating out pitch. I just don’t see Franklin having one of those. If I am wrong I will be happy to eat crow.

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 12, 2008 5:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Please let me know of a closer that would make you comfortable

- Kerry Wood – please
- Brad Lidge – we know what can happen to him if he loses confidence
- Jose Valverde – he’s blown 3 already, so that’s 1 blown for every 6 saves. Worse ratio than Franklin
- Brian Wilson – leads the NL with saves but has an ERA over 4
- Rivera – just gave up a walk off HR to the ROYALS
- Putz -just went down with elbow soreness

The only guys I may feel “comfortable” with are Francisco Rodriguez and Pappelbon. Other than that pretty much everyone else would make me just as nervous as Franklin.

I’m not saying Franklin is the second coming, but let’s give him some credit for getting the job done so far.

by birdo rojo on Jun 12, 2008 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ALL closers fail...

...at one point or another. All ballplayers “fail” from time to time; it’s just more glaring when “the closer” fails. Wilson (18 saves, 2 blown) and Matt Capps (16 saves, 1 blown) are pitching for non-contenders San Francisco and Pittsburgh; it’s my contention that there’s less pressure on those guys.

Heck, K-Rod has a WHIP of 1.200, and Papelbon’s 2-2… nobody’s perfect!

"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra

by The Ol Goaler on Jun 12, 2008 11:06 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder if the G-men would give up Wilson, say, for a left-handed first baseman.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jun 12, 2008 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

George Sherill

What do you all think of this guy? He has 21 saves in 23 opportunities, averages a K per inning and has been pretty solid since the beginning of May. While is walks are a bit troublesome (15 in 28.2 innings), I think once the O’s fall out of contention he could be had. I don’t know if we have anything that the O’s would be interested in (Reyes, Duncan, etc), but I think it might be worth looking into. He’s no spring chicken, but I don’t think we’d necessarily need/want him beyond this year, so that is good that he is signed for one year at under 1 mil. So depending on what the O’s would want for him, I’d look at it as giving up a player or two for a closer for the stretch run.

Yes, I know he isn’t proven (this is his first year closing), yes, I know we have other guys who could close (Perez, Izzy, Franklin, McClellan), and yes, I know it might be a bit much to give up Duncan or Reyes for a rental. However, he has been solid, he’s playing for a team who is not as good defensively as the Cardinals, and I think he’d be a LaRussa guy.

I think we should keep an eye on him and see what happens. It is at least worth feeling the O’s out come the trade deadline if they are no longer in contention and Franklin et al, falter.

by joecardsfan on Jun 12, 2008 11:09 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The closer solution is internal

If Mo goes outside for an addition, it’s going to be a second baseman or a significant upgrade in the outfield. If Duncan can’t find a closer with what he has, then our problems are too great to contend this year.

by Red in Chicago on Jun 12, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not sure on Sherill

Personally – I think our bullpen situation is OK and wouldn’t be my primary area for improvement. I’d prefer to give up Reyes or Duncan for an improvement in the middle infield or a decent prospect or two that could help us in the future.

I think the group we have currently, or is available the minors is more than adequate.

by birdo rojo on Jun 12, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe

again, depending on what the O’s are looking to get back in return, we could get Sherill and Brian Roberts. I figure they would probably ask for the moon (Rasmus) with Roberts, but it could be worth looking into. It would help us in two areas of need.

by joecardsfan on Jun 12, 2008 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'd take Sherill

In a heartbeat over Flores and/or Villone. He would really strengthen the left side of the Cards pen.

by indakind on Jun 12, 2008 11:42 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

But that doesn't make him

a closer. It just makes him another short man who throws left.

by Red in Chicago on Jun 12, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't really want him as a closer

I just want him in the bullpen. LH reliever is one of the definite weak spots on this team and Sherill would fill that hole very well. The reality is that Flores flat out stinks and Villone is okay. An upgrade in this area would really solidify the bullpen overall.

by indakind on Jun 12, 2008 2:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Jun 12, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mariano Rivera

Still awesome after all these years.

And don’t look now, but Kerry Wood has started to put it together. His problem is when he plays the Brewers and hits the leadoff man in the 9th. Since his most recent episode of that (May 1), he’s gone:

20.1 IP
0.89 ERA
0.74 WHIP
0 HR
.433 OPS against
14 SV

He’s been good. Real good.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
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by Mr Redbird on Jun 12, 2008 12:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rivera is the gold standard.

And even he blows a save every once in awhile.

You are right about Kerry Wood. He’s been nearly untouchable lately. In one of the LA games he got out of a bases loaded jam with 97 MPH fast balls and a devastating curve. He’s been a favorite of mine and I’m glad he’s been able to find a way to keep pitching.

She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.

by jillsinmo on Jun 12, 2008 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rivera

has consistently done it in the playoffs.

by njnick on Jun 12, 2008 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What about him?

The Twins just signed him to a multiyear extension in Spring Training of this year. He is not going anywhere.

by indakind on Jun 12, 2008 2:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's fantastic

In fact he might be the best closer in baseball over the last 3 years. However, he is not available in any sense of the word.

by indakind on Jun 12, 2008 3:11 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh I know we're nowhere close to getting him

But saladdays was responding to birdo rojo who was saying (basically, birdo let me know if I’m mischaracterizing what you tried to say) that there aren’t any closers that make you feel safe. Joe Nathan (and my example of Mariano Rivera above) are two that make you feel as close to safe as you possibly could with a 1-run lead in the 9th.

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DFA Adam Kennedy!
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by Mr Redbird on Jun 12, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ahh I see

I couldn’t figure out what the comment related to. Sometimes the replies get kind of lost in the comment stream and it is hard to figure out which comment it relates to. Nathan is indeed one of the few closers who make you feel safe. Others include Rivera (as mentioned) and Papelbon.

by indakind on Jun 12, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty Fair Summary

My point was basically that just because Franklin makes you nervous when he goes out to close (I count myself in that group) doesn’t mean he should be removed from the closer position.

There are VERY few closers who wouldn’t make me nervous if they were taking the mound for my team in the 9th with a 2 run lead.

To me it’s kind of like saying we shouldn’t have Welly pitching because he’s not as good as Johan Santana. Unfortunately this isn’t a 6 team fantasy league where you can have an All-Star/HOF at every position on your team. Personally I’d rather have Rivera, Pappelbon or Nathan closing for us, but I don’t think that’s going to happen.

While Franklin isn’t perfect, he’s closed every opportunity after Izzy went down except the second game of a doubleheader after saving the first game. To me, I’d rather have him than about half the other closers out there.

by birdo rojo on Jun 12, 2008 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm in a kind of

“guarded optimism” mode. I believe they are fully capable of holding it together till Albert and Wainer return, but I also believe they could falter. We’ll see. I also don’t like to see injuries to any player on any team, but hopefully Soriano’s injury will slow down the Blueboys enough that we can keep pace. I think he’s a larger cog in their success than many Cubfans would like to admit. Anyway, GO BIRDS!! Keep the ship afloat, boys. In a season when I had no expectations whatsoever, this has actually turned out pretty damn well and pretty damn fun so far.

by rockin redbird on Jun 12, 2008 10:14 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

HUGE effort from Looper

Watching Looper pitch last night was like watching a different pitcher from some of his previous starts. He had great location as evidenced by 63 out of 98 pitches thrown for strikes, or, 64% and good movement. What makes the result all the more impressive, is that it occurred in The Great American Bandbox, even if the Reds’ offense isn’t as potent as it used to be.

The other heartening development is that we could be on the front end of another Hobbsian offensive wave from Ankiel. His peaks and valleys in offensive production are well-documented and make him a fitting heir to Jimmy Baseball in center of Busch III’s outfield. Granted, his two homers in the last two games, are his only two hits, but, if a power surge is in the offing, he could help to keep our head above water offensively while Pujols is out.

Now we need to hope and pray that El Pineiro is not the version that came back too soon from his pre-season injury vs. San Fran and that The Colonel is healed and ready to go.

by bgh on Jun 12, 2008 10:16 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ankiel BP

Ankiel outperformed everyone I saw in BP last night, although it seems like he only hit HRs. He hit one almost out of the park (hit right field wall behind top row) and hit it into that steamboat restaurant thing that’s in dead center above the hitter’s eye. Only guy to draw wows from the crowd. Got a walk too, so I’d say he’s seeing the ball well – maybe went for the HR too much in the end with a big lead.

I also saw my first Card complete game shutout since I saw Joe Magrane one-hit the Cubs in Wrigley, stupid Vance Law.

by enoscountry on Jun 12, 2008 10:56 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting Quote

from Troy Glaus from Strauss’ PD article about dealing with Pujols being gone, “It’s like what (Bobby Jones) said about Nicklaus: ‘He plays a game with which I’m not familiar.’ Well, that’s how you look at Albert,” said Cards third baseman Troy Glaus. “He’s a great hitter and a unique talent. I can’t go out there and try to be Albert. Ankiel can’t. Ludwick can’t. We just have to make the most out of every at-bat and every opportunity.”

mel

by mel1975 on Jun 12, 2008 10:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I was a little shocked

Because a lot of his interviews are kind of vanilla,

but that quote struck me as different.

He’s growing on me—on and off the field.

mel

by mel1975 on Jun 12, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I bet he can hit a golf ball a country mile.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jun 12, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am very happy for Looper. He is a Warrior on the Mound.

I was expecting him to turn it up a notch this year and it seems like has. Sure he has a few ugly games but who doesn’t.

If he can win one or two more games before the break he could possibly go after 20 wins. Wow did I just say that?

Anyways I’m putting him down for 17 wins and that is top notch for a #4/#5 starter.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Jun 12, 2008 10:54 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

agreed

Generally if you get 13+ wins out of your 4th/5th starter things are going well…..... Too bad Dempster is doing the same thing for the Cubbies.

by ICbirdfan on Jun 12, 2008 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

True

But they’re riding him awfully hard for his first season back as a starter. 100+ pitches every time. We’ll see if he can keep that pace or flames-out in the second half like Loop did his first year (Loop was our best pitcher in the first half too). My money is on the second half flame-out.

by rockin redbird on Jun 12, 2008 11:51 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

is Dempster really their 4/5guy now?

ERA+ 156
K/9 7.53
BB/9 3.51

The guy leads the team in ERA, strikeouts, and WPA..all better than Zambrano.

by silent_bob on Jun 12, 2008 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Word

Dempster is probably their #2 right now (his numbers are better than Zambrano’s, but let’s face it, he’s not nearly the talent that Zambrano is). Lilly and Marquis would be their #4/#5 guys now.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jun 12, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lilly's stats are misleading

he got murdered in his first 4 starts - era of 9.16. in the ensuing 10 starts he has gone 6-2 with a 3.88 era and very strong peripherals. i still think he’s their #2.

by lboros on Jun 12, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One game does not an ace make

He was excellent last night. I’m not trying to downplay that. But we need to keep things in perspective here. Until he starts putting fantastic starts together on a regular basis (a Wellemeyer-esque transition) I’m still assuming he’s the pitcher we’ve seen over the past year and a half.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jun 12, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree he is the same pitcher over the last year and a half.

When he is good he is so good. When he is bad look away. But he has been winning games and the W’s are oh so sweet. Long as he doesn’t fall on his face like last year half way through the season he could put up a lot of W’s and that’s what we need out of him.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Jun 12, 2008 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Looper is

one of those pitchers that you know early on in the game if it’ll be a good night or a bad one. Last night you could tell he had his stuff together. A couple starts ago, not so much…

"because at the end of the day they still are the Chicago Cubs"

by rockin the red on Jun 12, 2008 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's only been shelled twice

his third game against houston, and the giants game early in the year. He’s got some hardluck games in there as well, couple of bad defense, couple of lethargic hitting/scoring by us.

Just taking away his beltings his numbers are pretty damn good for a #4 type guy (hair over 3 era) and frankly he’s better more times than not.

Not bad for a convert for eating innings

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 12, 2008 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Is dempster really their 4/5 guy now?

ERA+ 156
K/9 7.53
BB/9 3.51

The guy leads the team in ERA, strikeouts, and WPA..all better than Zambrano.

by silent_bob on Jun 12, 2008 11:51 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Sort of like a certain someone from Kentucky

I really hope Welly’s elbow is actually OK and he’s not being rushed back because Wagonmaker is out. We couldn’t stand to lose both of them for a significant period of time.

by birdo rojo on Jun 12, 2008 11:55 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Good question.....

At the beginning of the year…...
1. Zambraon
2. Lilly
3. Hill
4. Marquis
5. Dempster/Lieber

Is that how it was on paper? Obviously due to performance things have shifted….... But coming out of the gate I think Dempster was thought to be a #4 or #5 guy

by ICbirdfan on Jun 12, 2008 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

The amazing thing...

is that he’s gone from a reliever to a starter and actually increased his strikeout rate. The walks are down and he still gets a ton of groundballs. Now his BABIP against is .215 so his numbers probably won’t stay where the are, but he’s shown that he can strikeout 7-8 hitters/game and maintain a groundball rate around 50%.

He might wear down as the season progresses, but he hasn’t been performing over his head so far.

by guayzimi on Jun 12, 2008 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

If I bled Cubbie blue, I’d be awful worried about that unsustainably high BABIP, because it is the thing most likely to regress. His K/BB is 2.14, the highest of his career since it was 2.16 when he pitched for the Marlins in 2000. I suspect his ERA is going to climb into the low 4’s, which isn’t bad, but not #2 or #1 good.

Also, how long til his elbow or shoulder starts barking at the increased burden of starting?

by bgh on Jun 12, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget that Dempster has not gone

from reliever -> starter.

He has gone starter (florida?) -> reliever -> starter

by sdrone on Jun 12, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He was a starter in Cincy

They mentioned that on the telecast last night

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DFA Adam Kennedy!
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by Mr Redbird on Jun 12, 2008 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

+1

We know first hand how quickly innings can catch up to a guy starting after a year in the bullpen. It should catch up with Dempster at some point. At least for a few months.

Anyone else ever feel like Tony is having guys fake injuries to get some rest early on so we can peak after the break? Maybe I’m just crazy but this seems all so strange. Ank with a staph infection? Waino with a strained pulley? Pujols strains his calf when it looked like he ripped his achilles?

Nah. I’m just crazy.

"Why does he keep saying that?"

by Red Blazer on Jun 12, 2008 12:26 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

-1

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jun 12, 2008 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

strangely enough

that thought had crossed my mind (or something like it) but I think it is extremely unlikely. but when I saw that Pujols injury, it did look nowhere near as bad as I thought it would look

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 12, 2008 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

"At least three weeks"

P-D story on Wagonmaker:

“I would call it significant,” Mozeliak said. “I don’t think he’ll be back before three weeks. But it’s really difficult to put a timetable on it right now.”

P-D story on Pujols:

So, we’re going to be without our ace starter and the best ballplayer in the world for at least three weeks?

According to a statement released Wednesday afternoon by the Cardinals, Pujols is expected to be out a minimum of three weeks.

by bgh on Jun 12, 2008 12:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Ugh

Starting when? Can I count yesterday? And today? Are we down to 28 and 18?

by bgh on Jun 12, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh my

How disconcerting is the suggestion in this tidbit from the aforelinked UTK?

More interesting was the suggestion from several UTK advisors that this injury could be connected to his foot problems. I tried to find out if Pujols had custom shoes or orthotics, but was not able to find out before deadline, but it’s possible that what we’re seeing here is something of a cascade, an adjustment made to compensate for his painful feet leading to a biomechanical problem in his calves. If so, this could become recurrent or worse, cascade up the leg or into his back.

Cascade up the leg or into his back? Oh Lord…

by bgh on Jun 12, 2008 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I recall correctly

when he goes in for the elbow then the feet are going to get some work too, so we could clear a lot of that up at some point

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 12, 2008 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Superior Cardinal Defense?

While I would agree that the Card defense is improved from last year, can someone show me the stats that support the supposition that this is a superior defensive team? The Cards are in the bottom third of the NL for team fielding percentage, but perhaps some of the stats gurus could convince me that the Cards are a very good or even just good fielding team using different defensive stats. Certainly, I think Izturis is doing a good job, but the OF in Ankiel’s absence has had some problems. I think some of that can be attributed to TLR’s constant shuffling and no one else besides Ankiel being that capable of playing CF.

Related to the initial post, losing Albert for a month probably won’t make the Cards a better fielding team, given that he is a gold glover.

by Wahoo on Jun 12, 2008 12:46 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Tip #1

Forget about fielding percentage.

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by Mr Redbird on Jun 12, 2008 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/teams/

Here’s one metric… scroll to the bottom. I wouldn’t bother with fielding percentage. Think of all the errors Ozzie got charged with.

by guayzimi on Jun 12, 2008 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gotta say,

that table sure makes our boys look like a fine defensive crew. It looks like the stats back up my subjective observations pretty well.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 12, 2008 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wahoo, re superior defense

you’re wrong on the basic indicators. the cardinals have committed the 2d fewest errors in the national league (35) and rank 2nd in fielding percentage, at .987. fielding percentage is no way to evaluate defense, but even if one uses that indicator the cardinals rate as “superior.”

other metrics on which they excel (and which are far truer indicators of defensive performance) include defensive efficiency ratio, or DER —they rank 3d in the nl at .702. they are 2nd in the league in runs saved according to mgl’s UZR, or ultimate zone rating -- generally acknowledged as one of the two best fielding systems in existence. UZR was the cardinals’ proprietary fielding system —ie, they paid a fee for the exclusive use of the numbers -- a few years ago.

they have allowed the 3rd fewest stolen bases in the league, another measure of defensive effectiveness.

by lboros on Jun 12, 2008 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Izzy return to Saint Louis

So they mentioned in the article in that Izzy might come back by this weekend, So if he comes back who goes than?

Probably Worrell my guess but who knows

by FlimtotheFlam on Jun 12, 2008 2:44 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Someone posted this one the STLToday forums

but look at Jason Larue’s stats since 4/27

.294/.385/.441

Not bad for a backup catcher.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jun 12, 2008 2:56 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Well

I’d say that his 2-4, HR night last night really helped that cause, but if you start at 4/27 and go to his last game before last night, here’s his line:

.267/.353/.333/.686

He gains .140 in OPS just off of last night’s game. But I’d still say that the line above “isn’t bad” for a backup catcher, and definitely better than what he was doing earlier this season!

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jun 12, 2008 3:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bryan Anderson could do better.

Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.

by Eckstreem on Jun 12, 2008 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Possibly

But he does only have 102 PAs in Memphis. In my mind, it is better to get him regular PAs in AAA, rather than sporatic duty in the bigs. He can play every day and then get a September call-up. That way, everybody wins.

by bgh on Jun 12, 2008 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

.686 OPS

That is higher than 10 MLB teams are receiving from their catchers so far this season. From our backup, that’s pretty solid. Plus, as Mr. Redbird notes, LaRue is climbing out of an offensive black hole.

by bgh on Jun 12, 2008 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

plus

Do you see how awesome he looks?

by Evilfrog on Jun 12, 2008 4:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

And, according to last night's

Cincy announcers, he’s a REAL cowboy, not a Sears cowboy like Jeff Brantley.

by MdRedbirdFreak on Jun 12, 2008 4:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

What a crappy ending to that game

Thanks for helping us out there, Braves.

by liam on Jun 12, 2008 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

could be a blessing in disguise

there’s a pretty good chance ATL will be our top competition for the wild card this year…

"the hardest decision to make is to do nothing; there is a terrible temptation to interfere." -gen patton

by SleepyCA on Jun 12, 2008 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Edmonds just tied

the braves in the bottom of the ninth with a solo shot. Very interesting reaction from cubs dugout… not super excited. I think they (cubs) hate watching it almost as much as we do. It just does not look right, even jimmy was pumping his fist down the first base line then kind of lost his excitement. I think he realized where he was and who he was playing for.

by thewizard3 on Jun 12, 2008 5:10 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I think you're completely wrong

Maybe they just know they’re gonna win or some shit like that. When you expect to win, it doesn’t surprise you when you tie a game in the 9th.

Maybe I’m just full of shit. Go Braves.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jun 12, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

maybe

But all i know is if fukodome hits that same home run the place is going bonkers. You know more tenured cubs like derek lee and aramis have to look twice when they see him trotting around the bases with their uniform on. I mean its only natural.

by thewizard3 on Jun 12, 2008 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's natural for us and Cubs fans

But for them it’s just a job. I promise you. Jimmy’s gotta be a professional just like you and I have to in our respective careers.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jun 12, 2008 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, I don't

But I will one day. It makes the analogy hold.

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jun 12, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i just think

this is a unique situation. It’s like the CEO of Coke going to work for Pepsi. The guy who has been kicking your ass for years is suddenly on your side, not to mention hated PASSIONATELY by all your co-workers (fans). Yeah you have tolerate the situation and do your job, but it’s still weird.

by thewizard3 on Jun 12, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just don't know what to think about it...

I try to get pissed but it’s more sad to see than anything else. It will be really interesting to see the reception he gets at Busch is a few weeks. I think it will ultimately be positive, but man will it be weird to see him standing in center field with ‘Chicago’ across his chest.

by LukeMP1186 on Jun 12, 2008 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

He'll

always be a cardinal. They can have the charred remains of our great hero.

by thewizard3 on Jun 12, 2008 5:26 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

JImmy should get a long standing O the first at bat

and every at bat after that he should be booed voraciously

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 12, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jimmy...

why oh why couldn’t you have found your stroke in San Diego?

by bailorg on Jun 12, 2008 5:16 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

lineup per Bernie / stltoday.com

Schumaker
Miles
Ludwick
Ankiel
Glaus
Duncan
Molina
Pineiro
Izturis

I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps.

by madding on Jun 12, 2008 5:21 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

can someone please tell me

why Tony insists on using Miles in the #2 spot instead of one of our halfway decent hitters? It’s not like he doesn’t have choices!

by chuckb on Jun 12, 2008 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well

At least this will be the fourth straight game Kennedy is out of the starting lineup :D

We need Pineiro to be a beast tonight

Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
DFA Adam Kennedy!
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans

by Mr Redbird on Jun 12, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would rather see Miles...

batting 2nd than in an RBI spot like 6th. Would you honestly rather see Duncan batting 2nd? And you have to leave Ludwick, Ankiel, and Glaus 3-4-5 with Albert out. I’d probably do the same thing.

by LukeMP1186 on Jun 12, 2008 5:37 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Miles is batting over .300

not too shabby for #2 spot

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 12, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just a shade below

his slugging percentage, though.

by Red in Chicago on Jun 12, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

who cares

and that’s exactly why he’s not batting in an rbi spot.

by Tackle Box on Jun 12, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Slugging always matters....

If you slug a lot, you put youself in scoring position more, for others to drive you in with singles.

Start Ludwick

by DiscoJer on Jun 12, 2008 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Miles has

an OPS+ of 80. Yes, I’d rather have Duncan (96) or Ankiel or Glaus hitting 2nd. 6th isn’t an RBI spot—it’s in the lower half of the batting order. Miles should be hitting 7th or 9th w/ Molina in the 6 hole. You have to leave Ludwick, Ankiel, and Glaus 3-4-5? Says who?

I should say I’m glad that Kennedy is once again on the bench. The only thing worse than seeing Miles in the 2 hole is seeing Kennedy there (or in the 3 spot, for Christ’s sake!).

by chuckb on Jun 12, 2008 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Says every manager that has ever filled out a lineup card...

Your best power bats are almost always 3-4-5 in the lineup. But we’ll look at it your way. Put Glaus at #2 and move Duncan up to #5, which in unquestionably a prime RBI spot in a lineup. Do you want to see Ludwick and Ankiel repeatedly pitched around to get to Duncan? I know I don’t.

by LukeMP1186 on Jun 12, 2008 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't read that all the way through...

but I don’t want to see Molina and his ten extra-base hits in the #6 spot either.

by LukeMP1186 on Jun 12, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree

he has as many GIDP’s as extra base hits…

"the hardest decision to make is to do nothing; there is a terrible temptation to interfere." -gen patton

by SleepyCA on Jun 12, 2008 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gonna lay off Miles

He’s a far better option than Kennedy. We should just DFA that guy and be done with it. Hoffpauir is warming up enough to be an ok fallback plan if someone gets hurt. Barden too.

by Merry CRasmus on Jun 12, 2008 5:43 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but I wonder

if they’ll actually do it. The front office seems to have a profound problem with the concept of “sunk cost.” If ever there were a case where a player is in need of designation, it’s Kennedy.

by Red in Chicago on Jun 12, 2008 5:45 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Damage to what?

The Cardinal’s Win Probability?

by punditmoi on Jun 12, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

yes

unless compared w/ Kennedy. The one virtue of keeping Kennedy on the roster is that it makes playing Aaron Miles seem palatable.

by chuckb on Jun 12, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey Tone

you are keeping Kennedy on the roster. Got it?

* sarcasm might be involved in this comment

by mattyfrommo on Jun 12, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Miles & WPA

You can’t knock Miles for his contributions towards the team winning, at least offensively. His WPA this year stands at +0.11, meaning that he is slightly above average. Much better than the last two seasons, -0.49 in ‘06 & -1.14 last year.

(NOTE: WPA shows Aaron to be very clutch this year. By looking at that OPS+ of 80, his WPA should be much lower; Fangraphs has him with a Clutch rating of +0.88, best on the team & 8th in the majors.)

Granted that doesn’t take into account his limitations on defense, but …

That said, the Cubs do deserve my pity, but never my support.

by Solanus on Jun 13, 2008 11:28 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

he's reasonably successful higher up

he’s not a Tony style #2 hitter, he’s not even the classic #2 hitter, but he has pretty good numbers sitting up there. The only way we’re protecting our games above .500 is playing everyone in a position to succeed.

Miles has been getting on base at a reasonable clip, so hopefully Ludwick’s bombs will be a little more rewarding.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 12, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank goodness for the Wild Card

because I don’t see how we will catch the Cubs. They never freaking lose.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jun 12, 2008 5:45 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

That would be so sweet this year

after they have a great season, to get knocked out in the first round.

boo cubs, hooray beer

by Raconteur on Jun 12, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

they could conceivably have a rematch of the Diamondback this year

or a rematch of the Marlins from ‘03 (maybe Bartman will show up again)

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 12, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's still June

Way too early to talk about the postseason

by bailorg on Jun 12, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

we can talk all we want

but it doesn’t mean anything, heh.

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 12, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

iirc, the rest of the months of the season they play more away than home. not saying they’ll start losing a ton, but it’ll be nice to see them out of the confines of Wrigley for a while

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 12, 2008 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Edmonds pulled for Reed Johnson, PH

along with a braves pitching change, i think.

by redrey on Jun 12, 2008 5:47 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

so the guy ties the game

then gets pulled? kinda sounds like a TLR move

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 12, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol

The walk off HBP.

by Evilfrog on Jun 12, 2008 5:48 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Like Homer Simpson!

Mr. Burns pinch hit Homer for Darryl Strawberry in an attempt to play the numbers… Homer gets hit by the pitch with the bases loaded and the powerplant wins!

by FredbirdisaDork on Jun 12, 2008 5:53 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow

they can win by getting hit

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on Jun 12, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

RISP

The Cardinals also 2nd in the NL in RISP (.278), and lead the majors in 2-out RISP (.287). That’s more than just hitting singles and taking walks.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/aggregate?sort=avg&split=185&group=9&season=2008&seasonType=2&statType=batting&type=reg

by so_cal_cards_fan on Jun 12, 2008 5:58 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

well, let's see

they’re second in the nl in overall average, at .274, and they’re also second in average with RISP at .278 . . . . . . . seems to me those two averages are measuring the same thing, ie their ability to get hits. the situational components don’t correspond to different skills - a certain portion of their at-bats happen to come with RISP, and a smaller portion w/ RISP and 2 outs, and the cards perform about the same in those situations as they do in other situations. they get a lot of hits (mostly singles) in all situations . . . .

by lboros on Jun 12, 2008 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well, with 2-out, RISP, we lead the Majors in SLG, OBP, (hence) OPS, BA, RBI, TB, 2B, Hits, Runs (130, 39 more than the average team).

That is, almost every category except singles. :o)

by so_cal_cards_fan on Jun 12, 2008 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

how much of that is pitchers doing?

I can think of a few cases of some big time 2 out hits by our pitchers this year with two outs.

would be interesting to see that split

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 12, 2008 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

i don't think those are repeatable skills

they may have outperformed their usual averages in clutch situations through 67 games, but that’s most likely explained by random chance, as opposed to some skill that makes the cardinals improve their hitting skills in the clutch. i’ll stand by my original assessment - as an offensive team, they’re good at hitting singles and drawing walks, but not much else.

by lboros on Jun 12, 2008 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

ironically

exactly one month ago, everybody was fretting about how poorly the team hit with RISP - and i wrote then that it was probably a random blip, and the pendulum would swing back. . . . .

http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2008/5/13/508620/the-ups-and-downs

by lboros on Jun 12, 2008 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tautology Alert!

Well, then why bother looking at metrics for clutch hitting? If it were always most likely explained by random chance, no one would bother to collect stats on close-and-late, or RISP, and we would simply look askance and say ‘statistical aberration’.

I’ll apply Ockham’s razor to the existence of clutch metrics, and suggest it’s non-random, and welcome you to prove your point rather than assume it is true.

As for it just being singles and walks – The Cards lead the majors in XBH for 2-out RISP, with over 60% more than the average team. Hard to ignore as a statistical aberation.

by so_cal_cards_fan on Jun 13, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow, espn has really improved their sortable stats tool

I haven’t looked much at it, but that looks pretty nifty.

one interesting result: when you sort by OPS, the cardinals are leading the major leagues by 39 points of OPS with RISP, 2 out. We’re actually leading the majors in both slugging and OBP w/RISP, 2 out. I would never have guessed that… i thought we’d been pretty un-clutch this year, from watching the games.

It’s also pretty scary, because that isn’t something that is likely to continue. Not as a slight against our team but just “in general”, a 100+ OPS difference between the team’s overall average and {any situational split not involving R-L matchups} won’t continue for long.

"the hardest decision to make is to do nothing; there is a terrible temptation to interfere." -gen patton

by SleepyCA on Jun 12, 2008 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

at least when we regress

we have some buffer before we slam into league average. it’s good to know at least on one vantage point regressing may still keep us near what the better teams in the league are doing

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on Jun 12, 2008 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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