closer calls
by lboros on May 8, 2008 9:41 AM EDT
168 comments
heads up from will carroll: he’ll have an interview today with cards’ assistant gm john abbamondi on Baseball Prospecus radio. you can download the show here.
last night’s game . . . . . where to start? they squandered too many scoring chances; that pattern continues. for the second time this year, pujols made a fielding misplay that cost the cardinals a late lead. above all, isringhausen blew another save and took another loss. i’m not trying to downplay the concern over the bullpen, because it’s serious; they need to get that problem under control before it starts costing them bushels of games. but it hasn’t cost them bushels so far; it only seems that way. i can really only fault the pen for 2 losses: last night’s, and the april 25 loss to the astros. in both games, the cards’ win expectancy was above 90 percent until the bullpen got involved. have there been other blown saves? sure, but no bullpen is perfect; you can’t hold every lead or preserve every tie. the cards have played a lot of close games this year, and they’ve won more than their share.
we tend to lose sight of that fact when we witness maddening failure as we did last night; we tend to forget how often the bullpen has come through and sealed a win --- as it did just a couple nights previous, on monday, when four relievers pitched 6 innings of 1-run ball and enabled the cards to steal a very tenuous win. or the night before that, in the sunday night ESPN game, when the relievers held the cubs to 1 run over 4 innings and brought home a 5-3 victory. last night’s defeat left the bullpen with a net WPA of about +0.23 for the season ---- not great, but far from terrible. and Baseball Prospectus’s win-expectancy metric, WXRL, has the pen at about +1 win for the year after last night. and both metrics look prettier when you eliminate brad thompson’s stats (0-1, 7.71 era as a reliever) from the equation. does the bullpen have issues? absolutely. but let’s keep them in perspective; the pen isn’t killing the team.
yet.
i might be telling a different story in a week or two, however, if they don’t get izzy out of the closer’s role. here’s the statistic that scares me about him: only 11 percent of his strikes have been swing / misses this year. throughout his career, that figure has been at 18 or 19 percent; even in 2006, 16 percent of his strikes came on whiffs. he’s just not missing bats anymore. here’s how it breaks down on a per-pitch basis:
| year | pitches | whiffs | pct |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2004 | 1177 | 132 | 11.2 |
| 2005 | 921 | 104 | 11.3 |
| 2006 | 1051 | 102 | 9.7 |
| 2007 | 1055 | 110 | 10.4 |
| 2008 | 273 | 20 | 7.3 |
his offerings are running into bats nearly 50 percent more often than they did last year, and 33 percent more often than they did even during izzy’s peg-legged 2006 season. the league whiff-per-pitch average is 9.9 percent, meaning izzy is well below average this season. it's not just a case of a few off games, or a few unlucky hits that have fallen in. isringhausen isn't the same pitcher he used to be, not by a longshot --- he can’t throw it past hitters anymore. and for that reason, the cardinals can’t keep sending him out there to protect leads.
before i go on: i don’t share the impassioned and unhealthy hatred for is’hausen that is so regrettably common among cardinal fans. he’s the most dependable closer in franchise history; his failure rate has been lower than hrabosky’s, sutter’s, or worrell’s and about even with lee smith’s. he’s appeared in 19 postseason games for the cards and only cost them one --- the kent walkoff homer in game 5 of the 2004 nlcs. the guy’s a great pitcher and a class act; sure it’s frustrating to see him blow games, but he doesn’t deserve the personal abuse that gets heaped on him. spew venom if it makes you feel better; i can’t stop you. but it says more about you than it does about izzy. to me, that guy’s a winner in every respect.
unfortunately, he’s no longer getting the job done; for the team’s sake, he’s got to be replaced. it will take a while (maybe weeks, maybe months) before la russa comes around to that conclusion; when he finally does, what options will he have? a quick look:
- chris perez. after last night’s game he has a 1.72 era at memphis, with twice as many strikeouts (20) as hits allowed (10). he’s got a dominating combo of pitches (fastball-slider) and a mean streak. perez still walks too many guys, but if duncan can get todd wellemeyer to throw strikes than he ought to be able to do the same with this rookie. he’d be my first choice; get him on up here. but hey, speaking of wellemeyer . . . . .
- todd wellemeyer. think outside the box w/ me here. welley has been unhittable in the first inning of his starts in 2008 --- 26 batters faced, 2 hits, 2 walks, 9 ks, no runs allowed. in the one-inning closer’s role, he could be fearsome. there’s also the fact that, pitching out of the cardinal bullpen last year, wellemeyer posted a 1.26 era and held opposing hitters to a .174 average (albeit in a tiny sample of only 14.1 innings). if the team decides that perez still isn’t ready because of his control issues, my second choice would be wellemeyer. has he been good in the rotation? sure --- but let’s not act as if he’s irreplaceable. in 7 outings to date he has 2 quality starts; the cardinals have a pitcher at triple A (reyes) who can pitch at the back of a big-league rotation and another on the current roster (parisi) who probably can, too. this is my second choice.
- kyle mcclellan. he didn’t exactly cover himself in glory last night; in fact, his line was nearly identical to izzy’s (one single, one triple, one out). the league is still just getting to know mcclellan, and there’s a pretty good chance he will start losing effectiveness once the hitters have a book on him. and let’s not forget, we’re talking about a guy who as of this time last year was in class A. but his k / bb data are great, he has only yielded 2 extra-base hits so far, and he’s kept 8 of 10 inherited runners from scoring. he’d be risky, but what the hell; they stuck a rookie out there (wainwright) last time izzy went down, and it worked out ok. my 3d choice.
- braden looper. he has experience in the job but was never particularly good at it; too valuable now as an innings eater in the rotation. leave him where he is.
- anthony reyes. no way. he’s not suited to it, and the manager doesn’t trust him.
- ryan franklin. if an when isringhausen gets replaced, franklin is probably going to get the first crack at the job by default. it’ll make a lot of folks foam at the mouth; i won’t like the decision either, though i’ll try to keep my outrage in check. there's a decent chance franklin can do a passable job in the short term. if dave weathers can close in the big leagues (he converted 33 of 39 opportunities last year), i reckon ryan franklin might be capable of it too. understand, i’m not endorsing this option; i think it’s a terrible idea. but i’m preparing myself to live with it.
- jason motte. like perez, he has twice as many strikeouts (24) as hits allowed (11) at triple A; he has walked just 4 men in 15 innings. but he’s got less than 2 years’ experience as a pitcher and hasn’t yet developed a quality second pitch to play off his scorching fastball. i love what i’ve seen so far, but i need to see more before i entrust him w/ a high-leverage role.
- mark worrell. only 4 saves last year at memphis, none this year. vulnerable vs left-handed hitters. not an option.
- al hrabosky. madness never dies.
so how would you handle it? vote below. i'll be at the game this afternoon, cheerfully neglecting my responsibilities; a win would give 'em three series in a row and sweep away last night's frustration. temporarily, at least. . . .
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inherited runners
Izzy always makes it interesting when he starts his own inning, let alone with inherited runners.
by rmtx97 on May 8, 2008 9:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Very bad idea
bringing in Izzy in 8th inning with runners on. I personally would have stuck with both Mc Cellan and Flores for one more batter. I don’t mind Flores against right handers when he throwing well.
by ridgesee on May 8, 2008 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wellemonster
I have to admit, that’s an intriguing suggestion, lboros. The more I mill it over, the more I like it. Contrary to what Joe Morgan says, he’s a hard thrower and a pretty effective strikeout pitcher. That could actually work out nicely—and it would further blur the distinction between relievers and starters in St. Louis: we only have “pitchers” here! (Blooper, Wellemonster, Reyes, Wainer)
To me, I think that you pull a one year Wellemeyer audition at closer only if you believe Perez isn’t ready, which may be the case. If Perez is ready (or if the organization believes he’s ready) then go with him.
I have often defended Izzy, pointing out his save percentage and overall reliability despite his penchant for making things interesting. However, when lboros and his level-headed and well researched opinions think he’s done, he’s done. I agree, sadly. He’s had far too good of a career to go down in flames like this. DL him, blame it on the hip, and let him see if he can pitch his way back.
by Ray Lankford on May 8, 2008 9:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
+1
Personally, I think we got hosed on that call.
by TurdFerguson on May 8, 2008 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I kinda like the idea too....
1. I like to keep McClellan available for more than 1 inning. He seems to handle that well
2. Who steps into the starter role?
by sdrone on May 8, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Geez...
You didn’t even list Franklin as an option! Was that subliminal or you just figured no one would vote for him? I would actually vote for him. Throw him in the roll and if he fails replace him. I know, I know…the numbers don’t work out, but I think Izzy is staying closer unless they put him on DL.
by sdelek on May 8, 2008 9:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
total oversight . . . . .
i’ll add him in there now - even though it’ll mess up the scientific rigor of our poll. . . . .
by lboros on May 8, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i voted izzy
I believe he is still leading the league in saves, i think if nothing else tony needs to use him a little less, he is getting some serious miles on him, but as of today i think he is the best option.
That being said, i think perez should be called up, hopefully before sept. and start to face big league batters its his job next year.
McClellan looks to great some times and meh the next, and he is still a rookie.
Wellemeyer is interesting, if izzy begins to look bad continuosly and some of the veteran starting pitching comes back i would find it plossible to give him a shot at it. He throws hard and can strike out ppl.
"Textbooks are Soviet propaganda" - Rev. Jerry Falwell
by elirock83 on May 8, 2008 9:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
This is pretty much
my line of thinking as well – use Izzy sparingly and call up Perez and start breaking him in. Welle is also an interesting proposition and would be a good choice if Perez isn’t ready/can’t handle it yet.
I agree, Larry, Izzy is a winner, but it is time to start looking toward the future and saying goodbye to an old warrior.
by cardsgirl95 on May 8, 2008 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pretty much my thoughts as well
Also, Izzy may be showing some definite signs for concern, but unless it turns out he’s hurt (definite possibility) or the bad trends continue/become a bigger issue thant there are now, I think it’s too early to pull the plug on such a long-time winner. As elirock points out, the fact that he has been overworked (by necessity mostly) is not helping his performance.
Tony would also have to take into consideration what effect there might be on the team if he removes such a winning veteran from the closer’s role when he’s so close to a carreer milestone even though he’s leading the league in saves. A good case can be made that we may have better options based on his performance (especially his periferals) so far this year. But taking 300 saves away from Izzy because his periferals aren’t everything you want only a month into the season may create a lot of clubhouse tension and/or bad blood.
If he’s hurt or his performance languishes for a while longer, then you give Perez his shot.
by fltfire on May 8, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still think Izzy need to just not throw that f*≈√µ cutter until it's fixed
He’s clearly getting rocked on it, and has shown that he can be effective with the fastball/knuckle curve combo
CUTTER BAD!! NO CUTTER!
by Valatan on May 8, 2008 12:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I voted Izzy
contingent on him recognizing which of his pitches are effective.
by liam on May 8, 2008 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TLR
“it will take a while (maybe weeks, maybe months) before la russa comes around to that conclusion; when he finally does, what options will he have?”
your comment there really touched a nerve with me, and its not just TLR that does things like this. i guess in any situation people have feelings and relationships and those things sometimes cloud judgment. i’m a carolina panthers fan, live in charlotte, nc., and see the same thing with the brain trust here, ie, sticking with players they probably shouldnt…
anyway, the real question that comes to my mind based on your statement above is, “when he finally does, how many wins will it have cost us?” i’m hoping not many because i feel like this team is borderline good and needs every win it can get…
by UNCDubya on May 8, 2008 9:59 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What I think
Is that we absolutely need to see if Motte or Perez can do what they’re doing now against major league batters first, and that should be done soon. They are the future of the bullpen without a doubt and if they can get it done now, why not just hasten that future? They definitely have the highest upside of any other options here.
Next time we use up Parisi, use him for 2-3 innings (he’ll be happy to have gotten his feet wet here), send him down and call up MotteorPerez and plug him into middle innings for now. If MoP succeeds, progressively give him more and more leverage. McClellan earned TLR’s trust in like 2 outings, can’t MoP do it with better stuff?
I’m terrified by Franklin trying to close. He’s not getting groundballs, he’s not striking anyone out, he’s walking more. Something is going to give.
With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch
by joker24 on May 8, 2008 10:05 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
call someone up
if they think there is chance that izzy will have to be replaced, they need should call up perez now. perez might not end up being the guy, but he needs to get his feet wet in the big leagues before getting tossed into the closers role. if mcclellan ends up closing, someone needs to take his job. i think izzy has earned the right to fight through his struggles a little bit longer, but that doesnt mean they shouldnt work on the back up plan right now.
by dmb60614 on May 8, 2008 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Motte as closer
I live in Austin and saw Motte pitch here earlier this year. He made the first two hitters look silly, then gave up two long hits, one a monster homer. He still needs one more pitch and then watch out!
by Remember Kenny B on May 8, 2008 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Saw Motte as well
He’s great as a set-up guy…. wouldn’t mind him getting the call-up to close….. How many here thought Wainwright was the guy to replace Izzy two years ago? He wasn’t very experienced at closing, was he? Worked out pretty darn good…..
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on May 8, 2008 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Bullpen
Wagonmaker was in the bullpen for the whole year leading up to that…they didnt just bring him up and stick him in as the closer.
"Back in the day when I played, a pitcher had 3 pitches: a fastball, a curveball, a slider, a changeup and a good sinker pitch." - Mike Shannon
by nomar34 on May 8, 2008 2:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Consider Strauss' comments from yesterday
Chris Perez will not close for a contender, folks.
Will not is far different from should not and can not. The “will not” description says more about LaRussa and his fondness for veterans in the closer role than it is a description of Chris Perez’s talents.
If and went LaRussa admits that Izzy can’t hack it anymore (and we should all admit up front that despite some wild rides, Izzy has been a darn good closer), I think Franklin gets a shot at the job, which isn’t a bad deal. If Franklin can be passable as a closer, the demotion of Izzy (DL?) creates the space necessary to bring up someone like Worrell or Perez to fill the gap. The outcome could be very similar to the Indians last season, where Betancourt and Perez dominated in the 7th and 8th inning roles while the Borowski was the closer. Would putting our best relievers in the 7th and 8th innings be such a bad thing, rotating in some combo young relief talents like Worrell, Perez, Mcclellan, Motte, and Parisi along with the requisite LOOGYS? Seems like the way the Cardinals are burring through their pen this season, it is important to have as many high quality one or two inning relievers as possible to plug into innings 6 through 8 and removal of Izzy and placement of Franklin in the closers role provides that opportunity.
by JMedwick on May 8, 2008 10:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
No knock on Strauss
But he also said Reyes would be traded before the first week of the season.
by Evilfrog on May 8, 2008 10:11 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'll knock Strauss
only he won’t see it here. Guess I need to head over to El Vivi Birdos so he’ll see it.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on May 8, 2008 10:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You may knock Strauss
But I would be willing to bet his comment is based less on personal opinion than on a clear fact that LaRussa will not have Perez as his closer this year.
by JMedwick on May 8, 2008 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and he shouldnt...
imho…even the greatest closers ever werent just shoved into the closers role first thing.
"Back in the day when I played, a pitcher had 3 pitches: a fastball, a curveball, a slider, a changeup and a good sinker pitch." - Mike Shannon
by nomar34 on May 8, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
and if he does put a rookie there...
it will be KMac long before Perez or Motte because he has earned TLR’s trust already a la Wagonmaker
"Back in the day when I played, a pitcher had 3 pitches: a fastball, a curveball, a slider, a changeup and a good sinker pitch." - Mike Shannon
by nomar34 on May 8, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
LaRussa unwilling to have a rookie close
have you all forgotten about Izzy in 2006? Or how about Reyes starting game 1 of the world series? I think the knock on LaRussa being unwilling to use young players is way overblown. I do think that, like most managers, if he feels the options are equal in other respects, he’ll go with the experience/track record. I would too. But when he thinks the best option is a rookie/young player, I don’t think he hesitates.
You may disagree with his determination of what the “best option” is, but I have only on occasion and then, none of us have more wins as a Cardinals’ manager than Red in fewer games, do we.
by fltfire on May 8, 2008 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
While clearly
LaRussa was willing to make the in-season move in 2006 to stick Wainwright into the closers role after waiting three-quarters of the season to see if Izzy was alright, that one time overlooks the track-record of St. Louis continually making moves to bring in”big money closers” rather than seeking cheaper in-house options. There is a reason the cards have signed and resigned Izzy numerous times and it not just because he has been an above average closer. It is because LaRussa seeks stability and familiarity at the back of his bullpen at the opportunity cost of how those dollars could have been spent if he were willing to seek out in-house options.
In 2008 much like 2006, he may have no choice but to seek the in-house method, but doing so out of a lack of options rather than out of a desire to pursue a different course.
by JMedwick on May 8, 2008 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Im going to go with Perez.
The Colonel makes an interesting option. But then you would have to replace his spot in the rotation.
Closer is one of those roles that I believe trail by fire is acceptable. Though a few 7th or 8th innings outings couldn’t hurt.
I would have went with Hrabosky..But im more afraid who they will put in the booth with Dan than I am of Izzy closing out every game until the end of the season.
by Evilfrog on May 8, 2008 10:11 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
...who they will put in the booth with Dan....
That’s funny.
by cardsgirl95 on May 8, 2008 10:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
First-hand observations from last night's game..
1) The catches by Taveras and Barmes were tremendous plays, especially Barmes’. That ball Albert hit in the 9th was an absolute missile. I don’t consider those at-bats failures by El Hombre…sometimes you have to tip your cap to the other team.
2) Albert did misplay that foul ball in the 8th, but let’s give Spilborghs some credit there too. That was a good at-bat in a crucial spot.
3) The Wagonmaker is pure nails.
4) Overheard nickname from the crowd about Barton and his high socks: Dreadsocks.
Personally, I think we got hosed on that call.
by TurdFerguson on May 8, 2008 10:14 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree on Pujols.
He just hits missles sometimes and there are times the ball more less catches the fielder than the fielder catching the ball. For example the first inning when Albert hit a missle at Atkins, if that ball is 1 foot either way it ends up in the corner and AP is standing on 2B with a double. Not a big deal since Barton did score on Luds sac fly.
I really don’t see a lot of AP AB’s as failures because he just destoys the ball at times, and it’s not like slow pitch softball where you have about 99% control of where the ball is hit.
by ICbirdfan on May 8, 2008 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It was a team loss
Izturis couldn’t come up with one down the middle that he normally can. Ankiel GIDP with bases loaded. He also had a base running error that resaulted in a double play. (great catch btw) Pujols mis-played a foul ball and left the bases loaded. (while missing the grand slam by 2 feet and a robbed of an extra base hit by a great catch.)
Also, give credit to the Rockies. They are struggling now. But they are the defending NL Champs. Don’t be surprised when they show up to play in the 8th inning of a home game.
by Evilfrog on May 8, 2008 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, it's really, really hard to sweep MLB teams in series especially at their home park.
Get a win today and the Cards can take 3 of 4.
by ICbirdfan on May 8, 2008 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Coors isn't a bandbox anymore
but you still can’t feel safe there with a three-run lead against the Rockies lineup.
Personally, I think we got hosed on that call.
by TurdFerguson on May 8, 2008 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
BINGO!
Heck, if Albert catches the foul ball, the game’s over! lboros’ analysis confirms what I thought I had been seeing from Izzy; not missing as many bats. He hasn’t had the movement on his cutter recently—that’s been his “swing-and-miss” pitch in recent years.
Pitchers go through slumps just as hitters do—if Izzy regains the movement on the cutter, he’ll start missing more bats. I dunno if he wasn’t getting enough “break” on his curve warming up last night or not, but that could be a reason he threw nothing but fastballs. Coors still does weird things to breaking balls, humidor or no…
Were I TLR, I’d give Izzy the day off today; let Springer close. I don’t think it’s time to give up on Izzy just yet!
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on May 8, 2008 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Give Izzy the day off
I think the best outcome for today would be that we put up a big enough lead that the point becomes moot. It’d be nice to occasionally win a game where we don’t need a closer.
If we can’t do that against this pitcher with his 5.22 career BB/9, then we’ve got a more serious problem than winning some acceptable portion of the close ones.
I’d like to see the offense put up crooked numbers early, Lohse go six or seven, and Parisi finish the game from there. Bullpen would be fresh heading to Milwaukee and the team rolling along again.
by liam on May 8, 2008 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ahem
That’s Professor Dreadsocks. We are talking about a scientist here.
by mattybobo on May 8, 2008 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Professor Dreadsocks -
I like it!
by cardsgirl95 on May 8, 2008 11:33 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love how his helmet falls off 20 times a game! He should just not wear one.
by ICbirdfan on May 8, 2008 11:34 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chinstrap, baby, chinstrap
Go all Little League on us.
by cardsgirl95 on May 8, 2008 11:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd like to see the full helmet -- you know, Terry Pendelton style with both ears covered.
That might help his helmet stay on.
by Ray Lankford on May 8, 2008 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Or, with all that hair
He might resemble Gazoo from The Flintstones…..hehe
Personally, I think we got hosed on that call.
by TurdFerguson on May 8, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That' my favorite, too!!
It reminds me of growing up in Cleveland when Kenny Lofton would play CF and if he was running down a ball in the OF, it was almost like he knocked it off on purpose bc it was in the way.
Hats/helmets falling off just makes me smile bc whether or not the player is giving 100% it makes it seem like he is giving 150%!!!
by joecardsfan on May 9, 2008 10:42 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Appreciate your remarks about Izzy
I agree: He does not deserve the vitriol that gets heaped on him by so many people. It’s possible to acknowledge his failures and question his role on the team without treating him as if he is phoning it in or doesn’t care. Besides, he had a lot of help in losing that game last night.
Tino Martinez: Now there was a guy worth booing.
by Youneverknow on May 8, 2008 10:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
the anti-izzy anger always baffled me, especially considering how awful some of the closers in the pre-izzy era were
CUTTER BAD!! NO CUTTER!
by Valatan on May 8, 2008 12:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Izzy anger
My recollection of the anger was not at Izzy, who did his best when he was hurt. The issues that I recall dealt with (1) the absurd denial that he had a medical problem and (2) continuing to use him when he clearly couldn’t pitch well. The organization has a history of misleading assurances about medical issues; and TLR refused to accept the evidence of Izzy’s ineffectiveness until far too late.
Deja vu, all over again.
by madridbend on May 8, 2008 1:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
P-Rizzle
So in Memphis you can basically stand right on top of the bullpen. The rest of the guys in the pen called him P-Rizzle. I like that.
Also, when he closed the game i attended with 3 K’s, hitting 97-98, I heard the Sky Sox pen commenting on how “its izzy’s contract year” etc. People are definitely watching.
by cd on May 8, 2008 10:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I voted Perez
but only because I believe that Wellmeyer is, in this moment, not effectively replaceable in our rotation. Otherwise he would have been my choice (and, I bet, Duncan’s one too).
GO CARDS!!!
by SuperSeve on May 8, 2008 10:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Izzy?
If Izzy is demoted, what role would he take? Would he be willing to accept setting up for X?
by njnick on May 8, 2008 10:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
One more thing
If he is going to set-up, arent we just running into the problem one inning earlier?
by njnick on May 8, 2008 10:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My plan
This whole discussion is likely pointless because TLR is going to stick with Izzy until Izzy admits that he is hurt or done. TLR is not going to remove Izzy from the closer’s role. Anyway, if this does come to a head then my vote goes for McClellan. He shows similar stuff and makeup to Wainwright when he was installed as closer. Furthermore, it leaves Franklin and Springer in familiar roles. You can bring up Perez to take McClellan’s current spot and start getting him ready to be the closer next year when McClellan (presumably) moves to the rotation. A similar role shuffle took place in 2006 and it didn’t turn out half bad.
by indakind on May 8, 2008 10:31 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Kudos to Izzy
I’m with you, LB. For all the drama over the years, Izzy has long been The Man. The personal diatribes against the old warhorse are sad and embarrassing. I do agree his day is probably done—but how about letting him go out with dignity. After all, it’s Tony’s decision to keep putting him out there, and you all know damn well Izzy is doing his best to succeed. His best may not be good enough anymore, but to boo and insult him does nothing but make us look like Cubfans. If anything, that kind of behavior will just make Tony dig in and use him more to prove his friendship and faith. You all know how Tony reacts to that stuff. Let the losses speak for themselves and we’ll see a new closer sooner than later.
by rockin redbird on May 8, 2008 10:38 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Villone, could be best option
not a bad idea at all… at least a try.
by ridgesee on May 8, 2008 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What are we going to do with Izzy then?
If he’s not the closer, then he really has no place on the team IMO.
by saladdays on May 8, 2008 10:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I think we're anticipating a DL move
Something isn’t right…...and knowing the way the Cardinals injuries “happen” I’d say it’s 50-50 he ends up with some career ending injury in July that happened “sometime”.
With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch
by joker24 on May 8, 2008 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A serious concern
I agree that Izzy should be given every opportunity to keep his job but I don’t know what the magic number is before TLR decides enough is enough. He has already questioned Izzy’s health and that in itself makes me suspicious, along with the mediocre pitching.
The suggestion about Wellemeyer is definitely the best option, in my opinion. Unless Perez gets the chance to come up and dominate in the bullpen before taking over, which won’t happen under any circumstances, they are going to have to go with someone on the team currently. While I think it’s the best option, I don’t know that he not more valuable in the rotation at this point. I also agree that Villone should get some consideration if and when this takes place
by riotmute on May 8, 2008 10:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Postseason Izzy
I’m guessing by “cost them the game” you mean he actually lost the game. Izzy did fail one other time in the postseason for the Cards. He blew the save in the 9th inning of Game 6 of the 2004 NLCS. Edmonds, of course, erased that from a lot of memories a few innings later.
Still, that’s only 2 out of 19 in the postseason. But not all 19 appearances were save situations. Actually, he has 8 saves and 1 win (the Pujols-homers-off-Lidge game) for the Cardinals in the postseason.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on May 8, 2008 10:55 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Homerun off Lidge? I dont remember this.
by njnick on May 8, 2008 10:58 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right now
Lidge is the poster child for “Getting a fresh start in some division other than the NL Central”.
by cardsgirl95 on May 8, 2008 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it wasn't Lidge for the Edmonds HR
it was Wheeler, I believe. Lidge threw three or four innings of domination ball that game. I don’t think he had any history of blowing a big game before the Albert HR
CUTTER BAD!! NO CUTTER!
by Valatan on May 8, 2008 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What?
I thought my post was clear, but here is a breakdown
2004 NLCS
Game 5 – Izzy gives up homer to Kent, loses game. (But doesn’t blow save, since he entered a tied game.)
Game 6 – Izzy blows 1 run lead in bottom of ninth, allowing Astros to tie. Edmonds homers off Dan Miceli in the 12th.
2205 NLCS
Game 5 – Izzy pitches the 8th inning, then Pujols reduces Lidge to dust in the top of the 9th, Izzy finishes game, getting the win.
As for Lidge, his only postseason failure was letting the Braves tie Game 2 of the 2004 NLDS in the 8th inning. The Braves later won that game in the 11th on a homer by Furcal off Dan Miceli (bad postseason for him…) Lidge was insane in the 2004 NLCS, going 8 innings, 1 hit and 14 Ks. In the 2005 NLCS the Cards finally dented his armor in Game 3, getting one run off him and leaving the tying run on second. Then, of course, there was Pujols in Game 5, and two more losses in the World Series.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on May 8, 2008 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
nice to know
pujols will be playing with us in the next couple hundred years. :-)
by hex706f726368 on May 8, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he'll have himself stuffed
when he dies and with a bat in his hands….. bet he still gets more hits then Larue.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on May 8, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Carpenter
We’d have to figure something out for two months, and who knows how he’ll be throwing in July (if he even comes back then), but if it isn’t settled by then, he might pitch his way into late inning contention.
by Toddius on May 8, 2008 11:09 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Izzy
never threw his curve once that I saw last night. If he did it didn’t break and looked like a poor change up. Also none of his pitches had any movement or zip on them. He is JUST NOT RIGHT. Even I can see that, so I know Duncan and La Russa can. I look for them to plead their case for a DL stint to Izzy very soon. Izzy knows he is not right, he”ll oblidge.
by ridgesee on May 8, 2008 11:13 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I would caution about judging
the quality of our guys’ breaking pitches until AFTER we get out of Coors Field. Even Wainwright said he abandoned one of his pitches last night because it wouldn’t break at altitude.
by MdRedbirdFreak on May 8, 2008 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
McClellan threw a nasty 1
Then again, the two pitches he got hit on hard might have been breaking balls that didn’t break.
by Evilfrog on May 8, 2008 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here are some links...
Taking the pop out of baseball’s highest scoring park
"The only thing you know about pitching is that you can't hit it." Bob Gibson to Tim McCarver
by player2bnamedl8r on May 8, 2008 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
that might be right, the Coors field thing,
I did think it odd that Izzy wasn’t throwing any curves, but he threw 3or 4 good ones in the 1st game at Coors. Might depend on atmospheric conditions though.
by ridgesee on May 8, 2008 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought Izzy would go to the Knuckle Curve thing he throws rather than the overhand curve??
I thought he used it once or twice in his Tuesday night save?
by ICbirdfan on May 8, 2008 11:41 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That IS Izzy's curve...
He just throws his curveball with one finger “propped up” on the grip. I don’t believe he throws any curveball with both fingers “flat” on the ball.
It’s still a curveball; just with a different grip than, say, Wainwright’s.
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on May 8, 2008 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
How best to train up a closer?
Several folks today have mentioned two different options of bring up the next gen of closers (Perez, Motte). 1. Trial by fire. 2. Progressive, 7th, 8th – increasing leverage situations or converted starter. Historically, I would imagine, that most are brought up progressively. Is this right? Are there any examples of trial by fire (AAA to closing in majors)? I really can’t think of any.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on May 8, 2008 11:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Huston Street, maybe?
He broke camp as 8th inning setup and was the closer by mid-may.
The year after he was drafted.
by liam on May 8, 2008 11:59 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Ludwick
has big time power and is beginning to display it more often now. He is scorching the ball better than anybody right now. Pitchers will start making adjustment on him; steady dose of low breaking outside sliders. IMO it is time to keep him in there to see if he can handle this or at least, dont’ mess with him while he is hot.
by ridgesee on May 8, 2008 11:25 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
He is laying off the slider low and away which he swings at alot when he is not going well.
I agree he is definintely hitting balls hard right now.
by ICbirdfan on May 8, 2008 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Keeping pitches coming to 5
I was actually shocked to see them throw a 2-1 strike to Pujols at the end of the game. I figured that ball was not going to get anywhere close to the plate and an intentional unintentional walk was going to happen. The league is starting to notice the threat of our 4 and 5 hitters.
by birdo rojo on May 8, 2008 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You know, I have noticed that too
hope he has conquered that little fault.
by ridgesee on May 8, 2008 11:29 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
On the note of creating VEB nicknames for everyone......
I vote to give Looper the name “Mayday Malone”, thanks to his uncanny likeness of Ted Danson in his Cheers days.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on May 8, 2008 11:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I've long thought
Looper looked like that guy who played Leno in “The Late Shift”. No, not Matlock.
With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch
by joker24 on May 8, 2008 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Should we look at Perez
like Oakland looked at Huston Street? Drafted very high as a college closer in hopes of fast tracking it to the big leagues. I don’t think it is a secret that Perez is the closer of the future, and if he has control issues, why not bring him up to get the best help/coaching now so if and when izzy implodes he can be that much better. I am not sure if I want Perez closing today, but at least speed up his track and maybe he can become that much more effective sooner rather than later. Lets all remember Mo Rivera (not saying that is who we have) was not thrown in the closer role immediately. That being said, I hope Izzy is not with us next year and Perez will be our closer starting in 09, thus we need him up here before September to get some quality MLB innings in.
by Dave0585 on May 8, 2008 11:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Springer
would be a better closer than Franklin IMO. He can strike people out. Of course, he probably isn’t healthy either and is probably on his way back to the DL. Otherwise, why wasn’t he used in the eighth inning yesterday?
For what it’s worth, however, I voted for Perez, who is on the fast track and should be given a shot sooner rather than later. At this point, Wellemeyer should continue to start, there being no viable replacement.
by Mike G on May 8, 2008 11:54 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
is it possible?
izzy has been declining since at least ‘06 which lboros pointed out. he also pointed out a degree of bad feelings for izzy. for me it’s that his inability to take the attitude into closing opportunities that is necessary. in the case of his close against the cubs on sun. night, he threw fastballs w/the intent of “beating” the hitter. however, in many opportunities it appears he is trying to “fool” the opponent. it is my opinion that his hefty pricetag should be for the former example. giving lower paid players an opportunity to demonstrate why they should get “the big bucks” is producing good results thus far, so lets use our youth.
by ifionly ... on May 8, 2008 12:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
he hasn't been regressing since 2006
he regressed in 2006, and reverted to old form, if not better, in 2007
CUTTER BAD!! NO CUTTER!
by Valatan on May 8, 2008 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It seems to me
that the Cards have been hurt a lot this lately with opposite field balls hit close fairly close the line in the late innings with the left or right fielder shaded over close to center.
There were several games, I think against Houston where Schumaker was in left and lefthanded batters carried the ball to left field and Schumaker was nowhere in sight, and then again last night the card were beat with balls that Schumake was about a step away from getting to because of shade to center. With the ground that Ankiel can cover in center, does right and left center need that much protection?
by ridgesee on May 8, 2008 12:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Defensive charts
Defensive Charts really play the role in where the outfielders are positioned. I don’t think they are necessarilly protecting Ankiel. I think the theory is based on the hitter pitcher match up and where the hitter has hit balls in the past. When a pitcher misses location or a batter gets a bit lucky or makes a good swing and burns your fielders it looks worse.
by ICbirdfan on May 8, 2008 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree though it seems like the Cards have been burned by positioning a few times...
1. pitcher missing location
2. not large enough sample size on the hitter
3. hitter getting lucky
4. hitter bucking his tendency and doing a good job of going with the pitch.
by ICbirdfan on May 8, 2008 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey, we got all these charts on the hitters......
and the other side has all these charts on our pitchers, and fielders, and our hitters. Positioning your fielders and knowing your opponent is not all that unique; all the teams do it.
And sometimes good pitches get hit. A guy like Soriano, when he’s locked, in can hit anyone’s best pitch; Pujols hits some very good pitches almost every night. He’ll murder a mistake; he’ll murder your best pitch too. And any major leaguer, on any given night, has a chance to hit a good pitch.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on May 8, 2008 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
man it would be great
if lightning strikes twice and mclellan goes through the say process as wainwright did in 2006…middle relief->set up man—>competent closer…and then next year a member of the rotation
i think for now though….we have to consider bringing perez up…send izzy to the dl…i have no doubt he is injured…bring perez up and give him a shot…we can say the walks are an issue all we want, but until he is actually given a shot…no one will every really know
i will say that i blame the outfield positioning last night almost as much as mclellan/izzy…shumaker has to guard the lines better in that situation….especially after the first triple
by VolsnCards5 on May 8, 2008 12:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pitch selection:
J-Izzy got burned last night because he didn’t throw anything but fastballs until the game was tied.
I don’t beleive he’s lost that much stuff. He just doesn’t use it!
After Spilborghs at bat, Iannetta was sitting dead red, and J-Izzy still almost got it past him. From there he threw 2 curveballs and 4 sliders to go along with 7 fastballs. A much better mix.
I don’t think he is hurt. He just needs to quit trying to overpower every hitter.
by chicagocardfan on May 8, 2008 12:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
that seems to be the simplest and to me, most preferable option. Izzy at 90% is a pretty dang good closer.
At least he's better than Esteban Yan.
by jacksonian on May 8, 2008 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's what i was trying to say last night
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with him, I just think that he’s lost without his cutter and doesn’t have a backup approach to setting guys up/getting guys out.
Against the cubs he varied every pitch, every batter. To perfection. Last night, not so much.
- And his pitches weren’t up, so I don’t see it being his hip, he just got beat last night, but he shouldn’t have been in.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on May 8, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
pujols in the lineup today
I hope the streak ends so he’ll start taking days off
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on May 8, 2008 12:57 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pujols never wants to come out and that's what I like about the guy.
I don’t know it’s hard to tell a guy he needs to sit if he is performing well and is a team leader.
by ICbirdfan on May 8, 2008 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The streak has nothing to do with him taking days off
unless LaRussa doesn’t want to use him as a PH in fear the streak will end (which I doubt).
He could take the day off and the streak continue.
by Hardcore Legend on May 8, 2008 1:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hope the streak ends, period
I’m sick of hearing about it. Just something artificial about it. To think what a poor game he had last night, by his own admission, and yet the streak continues. Wow.
I’m not down on Albert. Not possible. Everything he does on the field demands your full attention. This streak just doesn’t do much for me. If it was a hitting streak, that would be different. It’s not.
by Youneverknow on May 8, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He hit a rope in the ninth
if Barmes hadn’t made an excellent play to leap and catch it, the tying run in Miles would’ve been at third with one out.
He should’ve caught that pop-up, but it wasn’t a poor game by even the standards that apply to him.
by liam on May 8, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Quibble
Not just a rope, more like a missile. Fine play by the SS to snag it.
Which would have put Miles at second, not third. Hard hit ball to left fielder, awfully difficult to go first to third, with the risk of making the second out of the inning.
by Youneverknow on May 8, 2008 3:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, he was awful last night
what, with the ball he crushed to the opposite field gap that was caught and the two hard hit linedrives, one caught and one not.
There is nothing artificial about reaching base in every game.
by Hardcore Legend on May 8, 2008 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You've gotta be kidding me
If it was a hitting streak
So I guess if he got a lazy single in those 4 games he hasn’t gotten a hit in, I’d be impressed but ya know, he should’ve been aggressive in those 6 walks he took during those games. This is every bit as impressive as a hitting streak.
With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch
by joker24 on May 8, 2008 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
His walks
are as much a reflection of the lack of fear opposing teams have for the rest of our lineup as they are of the respect for Albert.
Many of his walks have not been the “good at-bat” announcers love to describe when a batter has fought back from 0-2 to foul off a couple pitches and lay off some tough pitches to earn a walk. Numerous times he has just had to watch unhittable pitches sail past. No, I’m not saying he should be aggressive in those situations. Take the walk and hope someone else does some damage.
That the Cards are leading the league in on-base percentage yet are middle of the pack in runs scored is an indication that the lineup isn’t driving home runs the way we would hope for. It has been discussed here plenty. I’m not ready to say OBP is not important, but . . . walks in themselves do only so much good.
And, yes, Albert made some good outs last night. Again, I’m not knocking him. I’m probably more bored with Dan and Al’s yammering about the streak than I should be.
by Youneverknow on May 8, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Closer by committee?
I was actually expecting to see more votes for “closer by committee”. After all, competing for positions has been key to the Birds’ success so far this year in other areas (starting pitching, outfield and as of late the middle infield). I’d give the Franklins and K-Macs of the world a save opportunity here and there.
"Well, folks, this game began as a tiny worm and is blossoming into a large cobra." - Mike "The Moon Man" Shannon
by Tudor's Electric Fan on May 8, 2008 1:15 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Boston tried that and it failed....... Guys like to have roles and know their roles
by ICbirdfan on May 8, 2008 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As far as I'm concerned
the closer position is this close to being up for grabs. There have been many situations where closer by committee doesn’t work, but I think the situation of competition at the spot works for the 2008 Cards.
"Well, folks, this game began as a tiny worm and is blossoming into a large cobra." - Mike "The Moon Man" Shannon
by Tudor's Electric Fan on May 8, 2008 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
competition is good and I guess this situation is different
In Boston Papelbon was the best option at closer and they tried to make him start. Right now the argument could be that a lot of the options after izzy on the current big lead team may be about equal. So maybe a bit of competion may let the cream rise to the top.
by ICbirdfan on May 8, 2008 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Boston failed because their "closers" stunk
The pitchers they used as closer that year were just not very good. It’s more an example of failed execution than bad theory.
And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...
by SleepyCA on May 8, 2008 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I understand
that guys like to know their roles, but I don’t understand it in relief pitching in baseball. Why does it matter (other than at contract time) whether you pitch the 9th, 8th, 7th, 6th, later, earlier . . . your role as a relief pitcher is (1) if we’re winning or tied , keep it that way; (2) if we’re losing, don’t let it get any worse.
Is it really more complex than that? Am I missing something? Get outs—that’s your role.
TSF
by TedSimmonsFan on May 8, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I loved how it worked in 1985.
Remember Jeff Lahti, Ken Dayley, Bill Campbell, and Ricky Horton? They combined for over 30 saves that year. If my recollection is correct, Worrell didn’t show up until September, and he added 5 saves. And I still think that if Whitey had stayed with Dayley in Game 6 (Denkinger’s game), we would have been world champs..Dayley was more than nasty in the 8th inning…...unhittable.
by Iowa on May 8, 2008 1:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've tried
but people like the Legend keep bringing him up. That was one of the most crushing days in my adolescence—Keith Hernandez to the Mets for Neil Allen. (And Rick Ownbey, of course, but that didn’t really make much difference to me then and it doesn’t now either.)
TSF
by TedSimmonsFan on May 8, 2008 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
absolutely, but what made it better
was when allen started the year with an infinite era after giving up runs in his first couple of appearances without recording an out.
by sdesserman on May 8, 2008 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
When Dayley
was on, he was one of the nastiest left handers you’ll ever see. I never understood how a left handed batter could really hit him, but sometimes they did.
by ridgesee on May 8, 2008 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What I loved
(which may have been 1986 and 1987 rather than 1985) was when Whitey caught on to bringing in one of Dayley or Worrell, and then when the other team countered with the appropriate lefty-righty matchup, he would pull the double switch where he put the first reliever in right field and brought the other one in to pitch. I’m surprised that more teams haven’t tried that trick over the years.
I suppose it’s a lack-of-hitting issue if the game goes much beyond the inning in which the strategy is employed, having two relief pitchers batting in a 9-man lineup, but for games where you have the lead and you don’t expect to bat again, it makes the other manager choose his matchups carefully.
Then again, I like zone, box-and-one, and triangle-and-two defenses in basketball too.
TSF
by TedSimmonsFan on May 8, 2008 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That used to be done
before Whitey some, I know the Cards used it in the 60’s but back then teams carried 10 and 11 pitchers, now its 12 and 13, which the move kinda shorts you on position players if you are not careful.
by ridgesee on May 8, 2008 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
"out of left field" subject
sports map (PD has article)
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on May 8, 2008 1:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I can't help with this....
I “identify” with Dublin, Ireland: I like it when it’s rainy and I can stay in and drink Guiness…. :-)
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on May 8, 2008 5:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Lineup
CF Schumaker
RF Barton
1B Pujols
LF Ludwick
C Molina
3B Ryan
2B Kennedy
P Lohse
SS Izturis
Surprised Albert is playing today. I bet if we would have won last night, both him and Glaus would be out. I’m guessing he was at least given the option to sit today… but you know Albert…
Barton with 3 consecutive starts… I’m sure many of you are pleased with that.
Molina batting 5th.. yuck
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
PUT SKIP ON THE BALLOT!!!
by stltrav09 on May 8, 2008 1:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
.411 OBP with his speed hell yeah
With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch
by joker24 on May 8, 2008 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
it's against 3 lefies
no surprise.
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on May 8, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
why wouldn't we be pleased with Barton starting
he’s doing really well. rookie of the year?
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 8, 2008 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
just meant that a lot of people on here
have been calling for him to start lately.
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
PUT SKIP ON THE BALLOT!!!
by stltrav09 on May 8, 2008 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ROY
Needs a lot more AB’s and playing time to be considered….. Who are the leading contenders out there? Votto for the Reds is doing great and playing everyday almost.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on May 8, 2008 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well
I hope he gets them. seems like he deserves to be considered
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 8, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Soto of the Cubs?
Or do his 18 game from last year disquaify him?
by Evilfrog on May 8, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
150 ab
I believe is what he needed to pass in order to disqualify as a nonpitcher
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on May 8, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he had 80 comming into this season
My vote would go for Soto so far. But it’s a long season.
by Evilfrog on May 8, 2008 2:27 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sorry
it’s 130. he still qualifies. I thought Upton qualified this year but he’s 10AB over.
Soto would be on my top 5 list for sure.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on May 8, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let's not forget the other CUB's rookie
Fukudome.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on May 8, 2008 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
does he really count?
I supposed he does…
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 8, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
*suppose
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 8, 2008 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
if Ichiro counted...
however stupid it was that Ichiro counted
CUTTER BAD!! NO CUTTER!
by Valatan on May 8, 2008 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Molina
has the only real “power” to go deep to protect Ludwick…...and that ain’t saying much.
Lack of power with this lineup. Bunch of singles hitters. Need timely hitting today, PLEASE!
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on May 8, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
De La Rosa is terrible
so we should score some runs, hopefully Lohse steps up
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on May 8, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
20.25ERA!?!
Plus the handful of Cards on the current roster who have seen him have done pretty well against him. Glaus has a home run against him, for whatever that’s worth.
"Well, folks, this game began as a tiny worm and is blossoming into a large cobra." - Mike "The Moon Man" Shannon
by Tudor's Electric Fan on May 8, 2008 2:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not much
Since Glaus isn’t starting.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on May 8, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Albert's probably like
c’mon, I want one more game to hit at Coors Field
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 8, 2008 1:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
great idea
Never would have thought of Wellemeyer, but he’d be my choice. not that Izzy is that bad, but I think he could be better. Won’t be too hard to replace Wellemeyer since we have a lot of starters, it just depends when. If now, why not give Reyes another chance? If later in the season, Carpenter is going to need room, and who knows if Clement and others will make their way up. If I knew anything about Perez he might be my choice for closer, but don’t know. I would think that he needs more time to develop control, experience, etc. Just think, Izzy could make one of the best set up guys in baseball.
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 8, 2008 1:50 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Problem with Perez - not on the 40 man roster
Hate to throw rain on the Perez parade, but he’s not on the 40 man roster. As far as my somewhat limited understanding of the rules goes, that means he can’t just be called up. Someone would have to be cut or a 2 for 1 trade would have to happen in order for him to have room.
by birdo rojo on May 8, 2008 2:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Well, that might happen next week
Reyes is being scouted for trades and he starts a game for Memphis on Monday (I think), so if he’s traded for a prospect or two, then that might open the door on the 40 man roster….. will see.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on May 8, 2008 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
we could move TJ, Clement or Kinney to the 60 day DL
And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...
by SleepyCA on May 8, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Raining in Denver?
According to the Weather Channel, we currently have rain in Denver. Can anyone confirm this or give us a game forecast?
"Well, folks, this game began as a tiny worm and is blossoming into a large cobra." - Mike "The Moon Man" Shannon
by Tudor's Electric Fan on May 8, 2008 2:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Radar shows scattered showers
Might cause a delay or two…. nothing major.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on May 8, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
maybe everyone will have the day off
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 8, 2008 2:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
They don't want to go back to Colorado
all this will do will push the game back further and further into the day.
by Hardcore Legend on May 8, 2008 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As nice as that sounds on the surface
the Birds are facing a guy with a 20+ ERA. We need to at least try to get this one in IMO.
"Well, folks, this game began as a tiny worm and is blossoming into a large cobra." - Mike "The Moon Man" Shannon
by Tudor's Electric Fan on May 8, 2008 2:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
wasn’t thinking
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 8, 2008 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Snicker
great minds think alike. Or something.
by liam on May 8, 2008 7:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Izzy
Larry,
Thanks for pointing out the irrationality of the bile spewn at Isringhausen. When he falters, it drives me crazy too, but the guy is -as you said- a class act and over the long haul he’s done as well as or better than ANY Cardinal reliever going back decades and we owe him a lot—not the least of which is RESPECT and civility.
Do we need another closer ASAP? It’s a significant possibility (my bet is his hip is about to be toast), but only time will tell. The scenario of a Perez experiment is certainly worth a try in the short term, but I don’t think it’ll be the end of the world if the Cardinals don’t make a move in the closer area until the ASB. If anybody at VEB can figure out a (realistic) way to get a MLB-proven, near-infallible closer at no more than $8-$10 million a year, then let’s hear it. Otherwise, I think the over the top Izzy haters need to calm down a bit and realize that even Mo’ Rivera (arguably one of the best of all time) seals the deal on only about 89% of his save opportunities.
"The dog! The dog! He's at it again!"
by AustinBOB on May 9, 2008 12:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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