I have to admit, that’s an intriguing suggestion, lboros. The more I mill it over, the more I like it. Contrary to what Joe Morgan says, he’s a hard thrower and a pretty effective strikeout pitcher. That could actually work out nicely—and it would further blur the distinction between relievers and starters in St. Louis: we only have “pitchers” here! (Blooper, Wellemonster, Reyes, Wainer)

To me, I think that you pull a one year Wellemeyer audition at closer only if you believe Perez isn’t ready, which may be the case. If Perez is ready (or if the organization believes he’s ready) then go with him.

I have often defended Izzy, pointing out his save percentage and overall reliability despite his penchant for making things interesting. However, when lboros and his level-headed and well researched opinions think he’s done, he’s done. I agree, sadly. He’s had far too good of a career to go down in flames like this. DL him, blame it on the hip, and let him see if he can pitch his way back.

You didn’t even list Franklin as an option! Was that subliminal or you just figured no one would vote for him? I would actually vote for him. Throw him in the roll and if he fails replace him. I know, I know…the numbers don’t work out, but I think Izzy is staying closer unless they put him on DL.

I believe he is still leading the league in saves, i think if nothing else tony needs to use him a little less, he is getting some serious miles on him, but as of today i think he is the best option.
That being said, i think perez should be called up, hopefully before sept. and start to face big league batters its his job next year.
McClellan looks to great some times and meh the next, and he is still a rookie.

Wellemeyer is interesting, if izzy begins to look bad continuosly and some of the veteran starting pitching comes back i would find it plossible to give him a shot at it. He throws hard and can strike out ppl.

Is that we absolutely need to see if Motte or Perez can do what they’re doing now against major league batters first, and that should be done soon. They are the future of the bullpen without a doubt and if they can get it done now, why not just hasten that future? They definitely have the highest upside of any other options here.

Next time we use up Parisi, use him for 2-3 innings (he’ll be happy to have gotten his feet wet here), send him down and call up MotteorPerez and plug him into middle innings for now. If MoP succeeds, progressively give him more and more leverage. McClellan earned TLR’s trust in like 2 outings, can’t MoP do it with better stuff?

I’m terrified by Franklin trying to close. He’s not getting groundballs, he’s not striking anyone out, he’s walking more. Something is going to give.

Chris Perez will not close for a contender, folks.

Will not is far different from should not and can not. The “will not” description says more about LaRussa and his fondness for veterans in the closer role than it is a description of Chris Perez’s talents.

If and went LaRussa admits that Izzy can’t hack it anymore (and we should all admit up front that despite some wild rides, Izzy has been a darn good closer), I think Franklin gets a shot at the job, which isn’t a bad deal. If Franklin can be passable as a closer, the demotion of Izzy (DL?) creates the space necessary to bring up someone like Worrell or Perez to fill the gap. The outcome could be very similar to the Indians last season, where Betancourt and Perez dominated in the 7th and 8th inning roles while the Borowski was the closer. Would putting our best relievers in the 7th and 8th innings be such a bad thing, rotating in some combo young relief talents like Worrell, Perez, Mcclellan, Motte, and Parisi along with the requisite LOOGYS? Seems like the way the Cardinals are burring through their pen this season, it is important to have as many high quality one or two inning relievers as possible to plug into innings 6 through 8 and removal of Izzy and placement of Franklin in the closers role provides that opportunity.

The Colonel makes an interesting option. But then you would have to replace his spot in the rotation.

Closer is one of those roles that I believe trail by fire is acceptable. Though a few 7th or 8th innings outings couldn’t hurt.

I would have went with Hrabosky..But im more afraid who they will put in the booth with Dan than I am of Izzy closing out every game until the end of the season.

but only because I believe that Wellmeyer is, in this moment, not effectively replaceable in our rotation. Otherwise he would have been my choice (and, I bet, Duncan’s one too).

GO CARDS!!!

This whole discussion is likely pointless because TLR is going to stick with Izzy until Izzy admits that he is hurt or done. TLR is not going to remove Izzy from the closer’s role. Anyway, if this does come to a head then my vote goes for McClellan. He shows similar stuff and makeup to Wainwright when he was installed as closer. Furthermore, it leaves Franklin and Springer in familiar roles. You can bring up Perez to take McClellan’s current spot and start getting him ready to be the closer next year when McClellan (presumably) moves to the rotation. A similar role shuffle took place in 2006 and it didn’t turn out half bad.

but why not Villone?

If he’s not the closer, then he really has no place on the team IMO.

I agree that Izzy should be given every opportunity to keep his job but I don’t know what the magic number is before TLR decides enough is enough. He has already questioned Izzy’s health and that in itself makes me suspicious, along with the mediocre pitching.

The suggestion about Wellemeyer is definitely the best option, in my opinion. Unless Perez gets the chance to come up and dominate in the bullpen before taking over, which won’t happen under any circumstances, they are going to have to go with someone on the team currently. While I think it’s the best option, I don’t know that he not more valuable in the rotation at this point. I also agree that Villone should get some consideration if and when this takes place

I’m guessing by “cost them the game” you mean he actually lost the game. Izzy did fail one other time in the postseason for the Cards. He blew the save in the 9th inning of Game 6 of the 2004 NLCS. Edmonds, of course, erased that from a lot of memories a few innings later.

Still, that’s only 2 out of 19 in the postseason. But not all 19 appearances were save situations. Actually, he has 8 saves and 1 win (the Pujols-homers-off-Lidge game) for the Cardinals in the postseason.

never threw his curve once that I saw last night. If he did it didn’t break and looked like a poor change up. Also none of his pitches had any movement or zip on them. He is JUST NOT RIGHT. Even I can see that, so I know Duncan and La Russa can. I look for them to plead their case for a DL stint to Izzy very soon. Izzy knows he is not right, he”ll oblidge.

Several folks today have mentioned two different options of bring up the next gen of closers (Perez, Motte). 1. Trial by fire. 2. Progressive, 7th, 8th – increasing leverage situations or converted starter. Historically, I would imagine, that most are brought up progressively. Is this right? Are there any examples of trial by fire (AAA to closing in majors)? I really can’t think of any.

has big time power and is beginning to display it more often now. He is scorching the ball better than anybody right now. Pitchers will start making adjustment on him; steady dose of low breaking outside sliders. IMO it is time to keep him in there to see if he can handle this or at least, dont’ mess with him while he is hot.

hope he has conquered that little fault.

I vote to give Looper the name “Mayday Malone”, thanks to his uncanny likeness of Ted Danson in his Cheers days.

that the Cards have been hurt a lot this lately with opposite field balls hit close fairly close the line in the late innings with the left or right fielder shaded over close to center.
There were several games, I think against Houston where Schumaker was in left and lefthanded batters carried the ball to left field and Schumaker was nowhere in sight, and then again last night the card were beat with balls that Schumake was about a step away from getting to because of shade to center. With the ground that Ankiel can cover in center, does right and left center need that much protection?

J-Izzy got burned last night because he didn’t throw anything but fastballs until the game was tied.
I don’t beleive he’s lost that much stuff. He just doesn’t use it!
After Spilborghs at bat, Iannetta was sitting dead red, and J-Izzy still almost got it past him. From there he threw 2 curveballs and 4 sliders to go along with 7 fastballs. A much better mix.
I don’t think he is hurt. He just needs to quit trying to overpower every hitter.

I hope the streak ends so he’ll start taking days off

I was actually expecting to see more votes for “closer by committee”. After all, competing for positions has been key to the Birds’ success so far this year in other areas (starting pitching, outfield and as of late the middle infield). I’d give the Franklins and K-Macs of the world a save opportunity here and there.

sports map (PD has article)

http://www.commoncensus.org/index.php

CF Schumaker
RF Barton
1B Pujols
LF Ludwick
C Molina
3B Ryan
2B Kennedy
P Lohse
SS Izturis

Surprised Albert is playing today. I bet if we would have won last night, both him and Glaus would be out. I’m guessing he was at least given the option to sit today… but you know Albert…

Barton with 3 consecutive starts… I’m sure many of you are pleased with that.

Molina batting 5th.. yuck

Never would have thought of Wellemeyer, but he’d be my choice. not that Izzy is that bad, but I think he could be better. Won’t be too hard to replace Wellemeyer since we have a lot of starters, it just depends when. If now, why not give Reyes another chance? If later in the season, Carpenter is going to need room, and who knows if Clement and others will make their way up. If I knew anything about Perez he might be my choice for closer, but don’t know. I would think that he needs more time to develop control, experience, etc. Just think, Izzy could make one of the best set up guys in baseball.

According to the Weather Channel, we currently have rain in Denver. Can anyone confirm this or give us a game forecast?

great minds think alike. Or something.