In Contention Trades
by joecardsfan on May 7, 2008 12:50 PM EDT
65 comments
While I know it awfully early to start thinking trades, I'd like to see who VEB thinks would be a good trading partner for us, if we are still in contention over the next few months. And fortunately the way we have been playing, this is a distinct possibility. Here are the questions I pose to you:
Who are our best trading chips?
What positions do we need some help?
Who would you like us to go after/think we have a shot at getting?
To answer my own questions, I think our best chips are (maybe not at this moment, but based on salary, age, position, etc) the following: I think the two that would jump out at most of us are Duncan and Reyes. Duncan would be a good fit for at AL team where he can DH for 1/2 of his starts. Obviously Reyes isn't going to work here, so getting him some time in AAA to showcase his stuff might make him appealing in a few months.
I think the places we most need help are SS (although Izturis has had a few hits as of late), and relief pitching - most notably closer (Izzy really scares me). Also, depending on if our starters and outfielders stay hot or at least semi-warm, we may be in the market for one of those spots, as well.
That being said, I think I have a quality fit, who we are all familiar with: the A's. My proposed trade to them would be Reyes and Duncan for Bobby Crosby and Huston Street. I think this could work for various reasons. Duncan would be a good platoon player in the OF and at 1B, as well as hit some at DH to give the "Big Hurt" some time off. Also, with Thomas only signed for this year, this gives them a bat under team control for the next few seasons. Obviously adding Reyes gives them another young pitcher, who is cheap, that they can groom into a quality starter and then flip for more prospects (Hudson, Mulder, Haren). What we add is a closer in Street, who they may be willing to part with bc he is on a one year contract that he signed to avoid arbitration, who we could potentially lock up long term depending on his asking price. We also add a SS with some pop who is locked up through next year at a fairly reasonable salary (around 5 mil for next year). This allows us to either bring Izturis off the bench late in games for D, or allows us a nice pinching hitting bat when Crosby isn't in the lineup. We don't take on that much salary, it shores up our already crowded outfield, it gives them a few quality pieces to mold and flip, they get something in return for two players who won't be with them after this season and next, respectively, and it helps our everyday lineup/bullpen. I think this works for both clubs.
I ask you now VEB, what do you think on this topic!?!!?
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Even if in contention
the Cardinals still should try to move:
Kyle Lohse
Reyes/Thompson (one of the two)
One of our OF (probably Duncan)
Just because the Cardinals are contending now doesn’t mean they should give up on their long term plan. Duncan is the odd man out because a) he is playing out of position and b) the team has less control over him than they do Ankiel. Lohse is doing exactly what Lohse is supposed to do, raise his value as a FA. The Cardinals need to use that against a team like the Yankees and steal one of their young pitchers away from them.
by Hardcore Legend on May 7, 2008 1:10 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I agree
Plus, all of those you mentioned we can afford to give up. Duncan we can replace with Rasmus and we’re going to need to trade one of those pitchers anyway so that we can have room for the injured guys (especially Carpenter). I’d like to see us make a trade like that.
On with the (good) youth movement!
by aet15 on May 7, 2008 4:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
That's not
gonna happen.
The A’s have Barton at 1st, Cust to DH when Thomas is off, and Mike Sweeney as well. And Street isn’t “broken” the way Reyes is.
by spants on May 7, 2008 1:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Besides
Crosby’s OBP isn’t good. At this point, he would be a lateral move, and a step down on defense.
by spants on May 7, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not to mention...
that every time he’s gotten a hangnail the last three years he’s ended up on the disabled list.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on May 7, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow
Boy am I sorry that I tried to spark some discussion.
Yikes.
by joecardsfan on May 7, 2008 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't be so defensive...
he was merely explaining to you why your proposal is flawed, that’s called discussion.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on May 7, 2008 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just felt
it was unnecessary to post 3 times to explain my “flaws”.
by joecardsfan on May 7, 2008 2:09 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He didn't reply three times...
he replied once, then replied to his own when he realized he left out a thought.
I like the fact that you started the discussion, but explain why the Cards would want to target a closer? There’s Izzy, McClellan, Motte, and Perez who either have closed games or have the stuff to close games. I don’t see a need there. I’m also not keen on making any more trades with Billy Beane at all, considering we got fleeced on the last one. He turned Mark Mulder into Daric Barton and a bunch of top pitching prospects from Arizona. There are other teams that better fit as our trading partners as I have laid out in my post below.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on May 7, 2008 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
The post was meant for more
of a fun exercise to drum up some talk about potential trading partners. I wasn’t necessarily saying we should do that trade, I just felt it could make sense.
That being said, after another bullpen/Izzy fiasco I am all for McClellan, Motte, Perez, my little brother, your dog’s groomer, or whoever to take over as closer. We have a decent team this year, not a great team, and we have to be able to win games when we are going into the 8th and 9th with a lead. We have to take any wins we can get, and right now our starters our doing their job, but our bullpen and closer aren’t. Maybe you don’t agree with me, but I’d much rather have had Street coming in to save the day last night than Izzy. Granted I really like Izzy and think he’s been a good Cardinal for a long time, but so were Edmonds, Rolen, Eck, etc, but you have to know when to cut ties with those players.
by joecardsfan on May 8, 2008 9:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dude
“I wasn’t necessarily saying we should do that trade, I just felt it could make sense.”
And I gave you reasons why it doesn’t make sense. I was drumming up talk.
I think you’re a little over-sensitive buddy. You actually ended your post asking VEBers what we thought; how can you get your knickers in a twist when I do what you request?
Just relax. And if you don’t want people to debate with you, then you better come up with some fool-proof ideas. This site is for fun, sure, but people here (like myself) like to debate. And when you post ideas with very little merit, people are going to debate you on it.
by spants on May 8, 2008 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Twisted knickers...
How is my last post portray anything even remotely considered overly sensitive or getting worked up?
Also, when I was asking VEB what they thought, I meant as far as trading partners and players we should go for, not what they thought about my scenario.
Anyway, water under the bridge. Like all of us, I just want to see the Cardinals do well and have some fun pipedreaming.
by joecardsfan on May 8, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wasn't talking
about your last post specifically. Based on your previous posts, I guess I thought I detected the same tone in your writing. Regardless, it’s cool.
by spants on May 8, 2008 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So far this year...
Izzy—15 games, 11 saves, 4 blown saves, 1-3 record
Street—14 games, 9 saves, 2 blown saves, 0-1 record
http://www.baseball-reference.com/pi/gl.cgi?n1=isrinja01&t=p&year=2008
IF you take a look at all of the times when Izzy has struggled this season, it’s always in situations where he has to face more than 3 batters. A couple of these are his own fault for letting people reach base via walks or hits, but the vast majority are when Tony puts him in the game in the middle of an inning like he did last night. Given the small sample size, I’m not sure that Street is that much better than Izzy, and Street struggled last season to the point where he got demoted from the closer’s role in the middle of the season. If I’m trading for a closer I’m trading for a much better career closer like Nathan, K-Rod, or Wagner, not that any of those guys are available…
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on May 8, 2008 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I was looking at Izzy's stats
this morning, too. And while I see your point about being inserted in less than spectacular situations, as the closer, he should be able to handle those situations more often than not, and thus far he hasn’t.
I agree that Street isn’t in the top 5 closers in the game, but I think he has top 5 closer stuff, and maybe a change of scenery will bring that out in him, plus he is almost 10 years younger. Izzy doesn’t have top 5 closer stuff – but I sure wish he did!!
by joecardsfan on May 8, 2008 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
problem is...
Closers are also really overvalued in the trade market. You don’t see too many teams dealing their closers during the season, or even in the offseason for that matter. Any that get dealt are usually those who’ve had issues (Lidge, Gagne) or those who are over the hill and on the end of their careers as stoppers (Guadardo, Wetteland).
I think the reason for this is that the asking price for closers is often too high for what you actually get in return.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on May 8, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't quite get the notion of trading for a closer
we have a lot of relief prospects in Memphis, Izzy has shown that his problem is the cutter, rather than general ineffectiveness, and McClellan looks like he could potentially close.
The problem with trading for a MI is that it’s pretty hard to find one that is solid to great on defense (which, with our pitching staff, is pretty much a requirement—some of their smoke and mirrors start has to do with defense), is an asset with the bat, and is on a team willing to give them up. There’s a part of me that wonders if we could trade half of the quad cities roster and Reyes for Hanley Ramirez, but that’s more of a joke than anything.
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
by Valatan on May 7, 2008 2:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Hanley Ramirez would be GREAT to have!!!!!!!!!
by ICbirdfan on May 7, 2008 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I love me some Hanley
But he is pretty much untouchable. Besides, he really needs to be moved to CF and we’re pretty full up on those.
by mikedallas45 on May 7, 2008 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's MI out there to be had...
Brian Roberts has been on the block forever but the asking price is awfully high.
I think that if someone made the Dodgers a good offer for Furcal they would have to look at it seriously unless they are going to resign him and move Hu to second base.
I believe that Ian Kinsler and Michael Young could both be had for the right price.
Ryan Freel will probably be on the block at some point and can be a pretty decent second baseman when playing there regularly
The braves would probably listen to offers for Kelly Johnson and/or Brent Lillibridge right now as well.
There are options out there, and just about any good fielding SS is going to be and upgrade with the bat over Izturis. The Cards just need to make some offers and see what they get back.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on May 7, 2008 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i'd give up any one on our farm outside of Rasmus for Ian Kinsler
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on May 7, 2008 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Kinsler
signed a multi year deal just last season didn’t he? Why would the Rangers be eager to get rid of him now?
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
by cardzfan24 on May 7, 2008 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
they probably wouldn't
i’m just saying, i’d give up anything besides Rasmus to get him :P
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on May 7, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I am with you
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
by cardzfan24 on May 7, 2008 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
He did...
I included him because I think they’d have to listen about any player if someone wanted to trade them pitching. They don’t have any at the big league level, and very few good pitching prospects in the pipeline. They do have some decent MI prospects though, so they’d be dealing from a position of strength.
I also think he was signed to multi-year to avoid arbitration, similar to what the Cards did with Molina and WW.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on May 8, 2008 1:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Trading partners
I agree with Hardcore, with a few changes:
Lohse
Thompson
Reyes
Duncan
Schumaker
I think all of these players are expendable for the right price. The club needs to focus on finding solutions at SS, 2B, 3B (long term), a top of the rotation starter, and young, high value prospects to bolster the farm system. With that said, here are some possible trading partners:
Baltimore: They currently have Aubrey Huff and Kevin Millar switching off at DH and 1B - They’d certainly be interested in Duncan. They also have a need for starting pitching and Brian Roberts - who would look pretty good leading off for us and playing second base.
Seattle: Jose Vidro is their DH and Richie Sexson sucks and is in the final year of his deal—enough said. I’m not sure who we’d target in their organization but it would definitely be prospects as they have quite a few on most of the top 50 prospect lists.
Texas: They have Ben Broussard playing 1B, Frank Catalanotto DHing, and Sidney Ponson is their #3 starter!!! If the Cardinals could move Duncan, 2 of Reyes/Thompson/Lohse, and pry away Kinsler (20/20 last season), Andrus or Young, and a prospect I think they’d have to make that deal. With a middle infield of Kinsler and Young the club would have an awful productive middle infield.
Dodgers: Assuming we’re in contention, trading someone to them for Furcal at the deadline looks awful appealing if we could then sign him in the offseason. He’d look awful good hitting at the top of the lineup and would take the worst offensive player out of the lineup without affecting the defense. I think they’d be willing to deal him even if they were in contention because they have Hu waiting in the wings and they probably won’t resign him. They also have Brad Penny, who’s only 29, a free agent to be, and would fit well into the Card rotation with Carp, WW, Piniero, and Lohse/Welley. They need to make room for Clayton Kershaw at some point so trading Penny allows them to do that and not spend the coin on his contract when they’re already blowing millions on Jason Schmidt. Andy LaRoche would be a target as well. I have no idea what their needs are, but I don’t think they fit us as well as our needs fit what they have available.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on May 7, 2008 2:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Agree with Furcal
I think Furcal makes the most sense for us. It is the position where we have the most to upgrade. Every day I hope the Dodgers lose so they can tank. I want to see the Cardinals to make a push for Furcal and sign him.
by FlimtotheFlam on May 7, 2008 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Along with that...
Orlando Hudson is going to be a free agent after the season. He’d be a terrific fit here too. Can’t imagine that ownership would pony up for both him AND Furcal, though.
Personally, I think we got hosed on that call.
by TurdFerguson on May 7, 2008 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Well, going on what mlbtraderumors said,
Hudson would cost about 10 mil/yr for 3 years, and Furcal would cost 15 mil/yr for 3-5 years.
A 25 million dollar middle infield, but they are both double digit home run threats with double digit steal potential (Furcal’s in the 30 SB range), with good on base skills and Gold Gloves.
A high price, but if the organization did decide it wanted to win in ‘09, that would be a pretty easy (albeit expensive) upgrade.
by aNdrOss on May 8, 2008 11:57 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Problem with Hudson
what, exactly, do we have to trade that Arizona doesn’t have oodles of? Or, the better question, what doesn’t Arizona have oodles of? LOL
I just don’t know what we could deal to them at this time to pry Hudson loose when they are leading the division, have a low payroll, and could foreseeably resign him in the offseason to a multi-year deal.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on May 8, 2008 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Furcal is good and all
but I don’t like the thought of signing a soon to be 31 one year old SS to a long term contract.
"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman
by mattyfrommo on May 7, 2008 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Texas and Brian Roberts
I don’t think they will be interested in moving Kinsler (they are rebuilding and will want to keep their younger players). Young could probably be had but I want no part of his contract given that he is already a pretty poor defensive SS and will probably have to move to 3rd in a year or two. He makes 16 mil a year through 2013 and his PECOTA projection gets downright ugly in 2012 and 2013. Now Roberts, on the other hand, I would be interested in if we are still in contention at the deadline, but I’m sure he would cost a pretty penny (a lot more than Duncan).
by mikedallas45 on May 7, 2008 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
notes
broussard got DFA’d today, saltalamacchia has been playing a lot of 1B also.
seattle has jeff clement (one of their prospects on the top 50 list) taking over as a DH against mainly RHP. duncan could theoretically platoon with/take over for sexson, i guess.
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on May 7, 2008 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Seattle
I do not know much about farm clubs other than ours…and I do not know MUCH about ours. Just looking at this year’s stats, guys that I would want from Seattle would be:
Ryan Feierabend – 22-year old who leads their AAA staff in ERA and WHIP. Came straight out of HS into Rookie Ball back in 2003. It is his 2nd year of AAA and it looks like he went through some struggles and/or an injury or two last year…has come out nails so far this year.
Jake Woods – struggled throughout career in minors, although it looks like he may be putting it together in AAA in his age 26 season.
Jeff Clement – looks like he’s only played C and DH. He seems like a power hitting catcher, but I have no clue on how good he is behind the plate or how well he catches a game. He has two errors this year and has caught 4 of 17 runners stealing (and has 8 assists total). He is in his 3rd year of AAA ball and is only 24. He has progressed each year.
Luis Valbuena – he’s in his 2nd AA year at age 22. He is a second baseman who looks to have a little pop in his bat and a little speed. Looks like he has respectable #s defensively as well.
Douglas Fister – 24 year old AA starting pitcher. Good numbers this year and in low A ball 2 years ago. Average numbers in AA last year.
Justin Thomas – 24 year old AA starting pitcher. Very good in AA this year. Horrible at AAA so far. Do not know which he is currently on.
Terrence Parker – 23 year old high A starting pitcher. Dominating right now. As a 22 year old, he had above avg. numbers at A ball. As a 21 year old, he did okay at rookie ball and then played one inning of one game (retiring all 3 batters) at AAA. I don’t know how or why he made that jump after not pitching well at rookie ball…anyway, he’s been at A ball the last two years.
Gregory Halman – A ball outfielder, 20 years old. He has 5 homers and 12 steals (0 caught) in 31 games. Something to look at…
Anyone that has seen any of these kids play or that knows more than I do about them?
by stlfan on May 7, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you haven't been to Future Redbirds
please go now . Those guys will have you well on your way to knowing our minor leaguers. No Cardinal fan should be without FR and VEB in their bookmarks.
"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman
by mattyfrommo on May 7, 2008 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Unless you feel like paying $16 million a year for the next 5 years...
Michael Young shouldn’t be a target. I would rather have Izturis for a year.
"because at the end of the day they still are the Chicago Cubs"
by rockin the red on May 8, 2008 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
ok...
What if the Rangers pick up half the tab? We would send Thompson/Reyes and a minor leaguer like Freese or Allan Craig to them.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on May 8, 2008 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
you'd have to do a lot better than that...
unless it was just a salary dump move by Texas.
"Ding-dong the wicked witch is dead!" - Wayne Hagin after the cardinals snapped a losing streak
by The Ghost of Todd Burns on May 9, 2008 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Any trade propsoal Billy Beane accepts...
I automatically expect to be a bad trade for the other team.
I’d like to avoid trading with the A’s, yes I would…
by RedbirdAvenger on May 7, 2008 2:46 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
My thoughts
If we are in contention, one team I think that would be a great trading partner is Atlanta. They are desperate for a starter and some relief pitchers. Offer them Reyes, and maybe a relief pitcher or two (take your pick…possibly Izzy, but we’d have to deal with the NTC), and see if we can pry away Lillibrege (spelling?). That wouldn’t be too bad of a deal, I suppose. We have enough relief prospects to fill some spots if we trade a reliever or two and Atlanta has been desperate for them. Of course, when Smoltz comes back, he will be their closer, so it’s a moot point I suppose. Beane would ask for a King’s ransom for Street, just my thoughts.
Don't judge me!!!
by BigdJC on May 7, 2008 3:09 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
obsession
folks around here seem mighty enamored with lillibridge; i don’t see him coming that cheap since the braves can use all the infield insurance they can get given the fragile state of chipper, escobar, and kelly johnson. perhaps we could pry him away with duncan + reyes and maybe one more minor piece, and i don’t think he’s worth that much to essentially provide a pretty marginal increase in value over brendan ryan.
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on May 7, 2008 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, Lillibridge is kinda the new Andy Laroche at VEB, the guy nobody bothered looking at his DL stints while clamoring for a trade all winter. Theres alway a couple of guys that seem to be the only REAL option, aside from the players we cant afford or other teams would never part with.
Who knows, maybe the RBI bat we need in the middle of lineup might be sitting at Memphis or Springfield. Where to play them is the question if they earn a shot… tho Detroit is looking more interesting all the time as a possible trade partner.
There are no 2nd base guys out there that are gonna drive in runs in the 4 hole, the number one need.
I say we play and hold on to our Cards until the right bat comes along at the right price and fill that gap first, the other “glaring needs” dont bother me so much right now.
Reyes, Thompson and Duncan together are not going to get much of anything in return, let alone in early May.
by cardschinmusic on May 8, 2008 5:55 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think we could match up with Toronto...
We know they like Cody Hearther. They could use a DH(Duncan). Throw them Reyes and Thompson for A.J. Burnett and possibly another piece.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on May 7, 2008 3:53 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Similiar to Glaus
We would have to make him sign his options if we did that
by FlimtotheFlam on May 7, 2008 7:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
the angels
could be a solution for duncan; their DHes have hit a lovely .206/.295/.344 so far. perhaps a fit could be found for brandon wood, the perennial prospect for whom the organization doesn’t seem to have a place.
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on May 7, 2008 4:02 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Duncan DHing
Of course, him going to the Angels would have to require Duncan batting better than: .257/.385/.378. That’s almost as bad…
by stlfan on May 7, 2008 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
he's probably going to do a fair bit better than that
garry matthews jr. probably will not.
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on May 7, 2008 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not likely
The Angels have to do enough mixing and matching as it is.
by Phizzle on May 7, 2008 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Vlad will be DHing at some point this season to keep his knees fresh.
they would be nearly as good defensively with Matthews in right anyway at this point in Vlad’s career.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on May 8, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
A few things have to come together for it to work
1. You have to have a glaring need. This lineup has holes, but I don’t know that you’d call any position a ‘glaring need’ right now.
2. The guys you have to trade need to match up with the talent the other organization is willing to give up that meets your needs, and will fill the holes they need plugged. Looking at other rosters, and guys I consider an ‘impact bat’ (which is the term Mo’ has used to describe the type of guy they’re looking for to protect Albert), they either play a position the Cardinals are deep in, or the price to acquire would probably be too steep.
3. The trade doesn’t upset the chemistry of a team that has seemingly meshed very well and has great camraderie. Someone mentioned in a post not too long ago that these are human beings, not fantasy teams.
So, in looking at it with those parameters, ithere really isn’t a whol lot out there, at least right now.
I would love to see another Larry Walker deal, but I don’t think a contending club like the Angels would be willing to deal. So who has an impact bat on a non-contender?
Let’s say, for the sake of argument, that current trends continue in the standings. Unless the Yankees have a fire sale (they won’t) the AL East teams that will be out of it are Toronto and Baltimore. In the AL Central, Detroit and maybe Chicago. In the AL West, Seattle and Texas look to be done. In the NL East, there’s Washington, the Central I discounted as I find it hard to believe ateam will trade within the division, and in the West there’s Colorado and San Diego.
For Baltimore, you’ve got Nick Markakis. Toronto? Vernon Wells. Both good players, but Wells just signed an extension and Markakis seems to be the future for Baltimore.
Detroit is an intriguing team. Very high payroll, very underperforming. Their pitching is terrible, and their trade for Cabrera and Willis has pretty much backfired up to this point. They might be looking for pitching to replenish what they gave up for Willis and Cabrera. If they’re sellers at the deadline, there’s possibilities there, and one that jumps out is Magglio Ordonez. It would take two or three pitching prospects and one of Duncan/Skip/Ludwick, but it might be doable. Now that would be an impact bat.
Seattle and Texas? The only other name I would add for Texas is Josh Hamilton, but Texas just traded for him this past off-season.
Wash, Colo, SF, or SD? Sorry, no one there that really jumps out at me.
"Is this Heaven?"
"No, it;s Iowa."
"I could've sworn it was Heaven."
by MilCardFan on May 7, 2008 5:49 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
The middle infield has a glaring need
while it isn’t a position, the Cardinals need a legitimate cleanup hitter to create damage following all the Pujols free passes. The Cardinals need another moderately young starting pitcher for the rotation for next year and beyond.
There are quite a few glaring needs on this team, 105 win pace or not.
by Hardcore Legend on May 7, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, but they want an impact bat,
and the only middle infield impact bat would be Hanley Ramirez (ha! on getting him) or Miguel Tejada. No way the Astros trade within the division, and Ramirez is a building block for the Marlins…who are still in contention.
And I disagree it’s a glaring need. It’s not a long term solution, but it’s not a glaring need, either. Kennedy is hitting over .300, Ryan and Izturis seem to be very serviceable as a platoon.
As to WJ trading with the Cards, no way. He wants to stick it in our eye. He left on not the greatest of terms, and I don’t think he’d be willing to help out the Cards add the missing piece to a pennant puzzle.
"Is this Heaven?"
"No, it;s Iowa."
"I could've sworn it was Heaven."
by MilCardFan on May 7, 2008 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Impact bat?
I don’t quite understand the “they want an impact bat” comment? Who are “they” exactly? Those on this board who clamor everytime one of those players get put on the block?
Key phrase from above: “if we are in contention”.
If the club is in contention I don’t think they need to make a move to get an impact bat as much as they need to shore up the liabilities that they currently have without giving up the farm to do it. I think they could easily address the lack of production in the middle infield without giving up pieces to the future of the ballclub.
Acquiring an impact bat will also require giving up prospects that many of us don’t want to part with or vital pieces of the current ballclub. I don’t think that’s realistic or necessary if the Cardinals are in contention.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on May 8, 2008 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
What about this trading partner?
Who knows more about the players we have in the minors more than the man who brought (most) of them into this organization…Walt Jocketty. Remember when Bowden (sp?) went to the Nationals and stole Kearns and Lopez away from the Reds for a bunch of bullpen help (or what they thought would be help). I think the Reds probably will be in the selling position this year and with Griffey, Freel, Dunn, and others maybe (even Home Bailey as I hear they are very down on him now) could all be available. Maybe Walt still has some desire to get some of his players in the Reds organization. I am not sure how we match up with the Reds in terms of player(s) for player(s), and I am not saying that Walt would fall for such a bad trade as Krivsky did, but I thought it was something interesting to think about….anyone see any potential trade with the Reds?
by Dave0585 on May 7, 2008 6:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Walt and Mo?
Even if Walt is sweet on some of his former guys, you just don’t see a lot of major player trades with division rivals in-season, especially between two guys who probably let the other guy’s calls go straight to voice mail. Neither one of them would want to be seen as coming out on the short end of a trade with the other.
I would think the Cards would want to add a bat with some pop for the middle of the order, from the middle infield if posible, and a #1-#3 type starter (I would think you could say that of any team, and that there aren’t many teams lining up to give those away). I would add to that list a strong set up guy but I doubt they will be willing to give up much for bullpen help. A lot depends on which teams fall out of contention, who is available, and what we’re willing to part with.
If we are shopping a bunch of tarnished prospects (Duncan/Reyes/Thompson), we are not going to get anyone’s top prospect in return. We are going to get other questionable prospects, or guys being moved to dump salary. Guys that had crossed my mind were Kinsler and Young from Texas, and Uggla from Florida but those teams are in contention. The Rockies interest me- They seem kind of neutral as far as adding/dumping salary but are 10 games out and would seem to have a lot of young guys they will have to pay soon (although I don’t really know much about their contract situations). Francis off a down year, Atkins, and (dare I say it?) Holliday would be real interesting. Hey, if we can talk Hanley Ramirez, we can talk Holliday. Either way, the next name we have to mention is Rasmus- when does he become “touchable” and how much has his AAA start decreased his worth (another topic for another thread). Detroit might have some of the bullpen help I would like if/when Zumaya and Rodney come off the DL, and they might be a good fit for Reyes with their injured/struggling starters. I can’t see us being able to move Loshe unless Carp comes back ahead of schedule and is lights out, or if we fall out of contention. Even then, I wouldn’t think you could get much for the rental.
What does a mama bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? No cubs. ~Harry Caray
by Tupelo on May 7, 2008 8:05 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
as with not getting anyone's top prospects in return
You never know when the trade deadline comes what will make a GM go nuts. I know it seems to not happen as much as it used to, but I can see a team needing another pitcher taking a chance that one of ours might be worth a pretty decent prospect. Hell , they seem to go crazy for relief pitchers, so I don’t think it would be too far-fetched to think if we might be able to move Lohse, Looper, or Piniero for a nice one(or two!).
"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman
by mattyfrommo on May 7, 2008 9:03 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Right, but
assuming we are still in contention (the original premise of the thread), we would only be able to move one of those guys if Carpenter (hopefully), Clement (doubtfull), or Mulder (not gonna happen) comes back and pitches lights out (and that assumes no one else gets injured). And if they’re in contention, the majority of fans will be screaming for a bat or an arm for the stretch, not a prospect. If they’re just hanging on and not looking like they can be a real threat, or are out of it, I’d agree they take what they can get for any of those guys and continue rebuilding.
What does a mama bear on the pill have in common with the World Series? No cubs. ~Harry Caray
by Tupelo on May 8, 2008 12:08 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
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