rolling on through . . . .
the cardinals have arrived in denver for their annual stop; i’ll be down at coors field tonight (game-time forecast: partly cloudy, 70 degrees) and again on thursday afternoon, with real life keeping me from the park on tues and wed. at the time the cards came to denver last year, ankiel ryan and parisi were all in triple A, and barton and mclellan were still in A ball. todd wellemeyer had never started a big-league game (he made his first career start out here last year), while joel pineiro was a failed reliever in boston and adam wainwright was no one’s idea of an ace --- he’d made 10 career starts with a 5.59 era. they were 7 games under and 6.5 games out of first last time they visited denver, as unhappy a bunch as you might imagine; this year they float in lighter than the rocky mountain air.
i don’t have much wisdom to offer re the series win over the cubs; aside from one bad inning on saturday they frustrated the league’s highest-scoring offense, and the st louis hitters kept pecking away and got a couple of key hits (one by schumaker, one by pujols). while far from a thumping, it was a nice series win for a team that’s still trying to set the tone for its season. they now enter a stretch that will really tell us just how seriously we should take this team --- 14 road games in the next 21 days, all against teams that finished above .500 last year. two of the opponents (padres and rockies) are well below .500 so far this season, but they’re still not going to be pushovers for the cards. if the team can preserve its current loft (8 games over) through these next 3 weeks, we may be in for a really fun summer.
in the game thread last night somebody remarked that albert’s go-ahead double wasn’t all that impressive, just a groundball with eyes; the same might be said of kennedy’s hit that tied the game back in the 2d inning. that, it turns out, is something we need to keep an eye on. per Baseball-Reference’s splits, the cardinal offense leads the league in seeing-eye rollers: they’re batting .276 on groundballs, nearly 50 points higher than the league average (.228). a 20-point bulge might be sustainable over a full season, but 50 points? not gonna happen. just ask yourself --- is adam kennedy really going to hit .329 all year? he’s hitting .250 on groundballs so far this year, vs a career average on grounders of .192. and kennedy hits a lot of groundballs . . . . . this is a red flag for an offense that so far hasn’t exhibited a whole lot of weapons other than the groundball through the hole; the cards rank 12th in the nl in both homers and stolen bases. they’re due a few additional homers from glaus and duncan, and those might help make up the difference when the groundballs stop hopping through as frequently. but even with the benefit of all those groundball hits, the cardinals rank just 9th in the league in scoring; there’s a danger they’ll sink several spots below that.
corollary: the cardinal defense is gobbling up grounders at a stupendous rate, holding opponents to a .184 average, or 44 points better than league average. this is unsustainable as well, but it’s less of a problem; the cardinals can afford to give up a few more singles as long as they continue to avoid walks and homeruns. unlike the middle-of-pack offense, the pitching currently ranks near the top of the league; it can lose a little altitude and still remain superior.
fact of the day: did you know the cards have only allowed 2 first-inning runs all year? maybe dan and al have trotted that out on the broadcast, but i sure didn’t know it. every other team in the nl has allowed at least 10 first-inning runs to date. more runs are scored in the first inning than any other, for the obvious reason that teams always send good hitters to the plate in the first. this helps explain why the cardinal starting pitchers rank a close second in the league in innings per start ---- they deliver just over 6 innings a start, second in the league (a hair behind the padres). they last two outs longer per start than the members of atlanta’s rotation (who have the league’s best era) and one out longer than the cub and brewer starters. although some of us fretted about the heavy use of the bullpen early on, that has been brought under control: the cardinal bullpen has thrown the fewest innings in the league and made the third fewest appearances (the dodgers and padres have fewer).
a couple of items:
- congrats to will leitch for steering the 1986 cardinals to the division title in TSN’s season-long replay. they won it by a game on the last day of the season, as terry pendleton (batting .199) singled home the go-ahead run in the top of the 9th. the cards take on the houston astros (winners of both the real and simulated 1986 titles) in the nlcs; game 1 is wednesday.
- a friend of mine, shelley bernstein, is running a wisdom-of-crowds-type experiment at the Brooklyn Museum, and we are all invited to participate. shelley and i sat on a blogging panel together at a national conference last week, and she told me about this exercise, which is called Click! it’s essentially a juried photography exhibition in which the public acts as the jury; "click" refers both to the shutter of the camera and the mouse activity of gazillions of online users. you don’t have to be a photography expert to participate, and you don’t have to live in brooklyn; in fact, shelley asked me to post this invitation at VEB because our community is predominantly not made up of photography fans / brooklyn residents. the broader the inputs, the better the results --- or so the "wisdom of crowds" theory goes. here’s more info about the exhibition, and here’s a link to the registration page; no photographs of the dodgers were submitted, but there are still some very thought-provoking images.
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Excellent comments
Even if I am not totally in agreement with the fact that it is not sustainable to hold ba on groundballs that low; this is what I would expect with a very good infield, like the one the Cards can sport.
What really amazes me is the lack of slugging, we know that Glaus, Ankiel, Duncan and even Albert can hit much harder than this, but nonetheless the HRs are not there, the doubles are not always hard hit, and the reliance on high ba on groundballs is really scarying. I hope that things would turn quickly, otherwise pitching will not be able to sustain this forever.
GO CARDS!!!
by SuperSeve on
May 5, 2008 9:39 AM EDT
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Do they go hand in hand?
Perhaps the high averaged on ground balls is a reflection of subpar infield defense of the teams played so far. Factor in the low average on ground balls against due to excellent Cardinal defense, sprinkle in a league leading walk total and maybe you have at least part of the reason for 20 wins. Not the obvious, OPS solution, but a winning formula nonetheless?
by Hal Lanier's Pants on
May 5, 2008 4:17 PM EDT
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First inning runs
I have heard Dan and Al remark on how good the Cards have been in the First innings all year. I just gotta hope the Cards keep it up lol.
"Get your hands off me you damn dirty ape!" -RIP Charlton Heston
by Calhoun on
May 5, 2008 9:50 AM EDT
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I have to disagree about Albert's double
I think for most players in the league that may have been a lucky hit, but Albert seems to be able to take the ball down the line or up the middle better then any hitter in the game. Plus that ball was smoked down the line. We’re not talking about a little dribbler that just snuck by the 3b. That’s a double against 99% of 3b, maybe a heathly Rolen knocks that down.
I would like to see some more power from Pujols, but I realize that as a line drive hitter the home runs will come
by thoran85 on
May 5, 2008 10:10 AM EDT
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you may be right about that individual hit
on the season, though, albert is batting .375 on groundballs (15 for 40). his career average on grounders is .254 . . . .
by lboros on
May 5, 2008 10:13 AM EDT
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if Albert's a big reason
we have such an abnormally high groundball average then I am not worried. He will get his hits in different ways as the season goes on.
I’d be more concerned if it was Skip or some other overperforming player (kennedy). I don’t have the Baseball Reference subscription but I saw Skip was batting .246 on groundballs. Not extremely high. I cannot see Kennedy’s, Glaus’, or Ankiel’s.
by enoscountry on
May 5, 2008 11:06 AM EDT
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true
But at the same time how many balls on a given year does Albert absolutely smoke at infielders. I think it is a stupid stat to mention how many double playes Albert hits into. Of course he hits in to a lot of double plays! He hits balls harder than anyone in the league, not even Jose Reyes could avoid double plays if he hit balls right at guys as hard as Albert does
by ICbirdfan on
May 5, 2008 11:27 AM EDT
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There are groundballs and then there are groundballs
THe 3b barely reacted before it was by him. I would say that was a line drive that skirted the ground.
by The Duke on
May 5, 2008 10:24 PM EDT
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agreed
The only way that hit from Pujols wouldn’t have been out is if it was unluckily hit within two or three feet of an infielder (it almost was)... but the point still remains. I wonder if hard-hit grounders like that one could explain how the home runs are down but the average on groundballs are up – that pitches are being hit hard, just not nearly out of the park?
by kblakestl on
May 5, 2008 10:16 AM EDT
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I'd argue that
Glaus may have had a reasonable stab at it. Glaus had at least 3 brilliant grabs off the line in his series alone. I only mention it due to the healthy Rolen mention.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
May 5, 2008 1:00 PM EDT
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I'm not so sure
Glaus has impressed me with his very solid glove so far (Tony might say he has “soft hands”), but his range/quickness is nothing like Rolen’s.
In my opinion, Glaus probably wouldn’t have been able to do much more than wave at it, whereas Rolen might have actually had a chance to knock it down/snag it. Scotty’s quickness/range is what makes him so incredible at 3rd.
That said, I’m very pleasantly surprised with Glaus’ glove work so far this season. Let’s just hope his HR stroke comes back…
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on
May 5, 2008 5:13 PM EDT
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Overall BABIP
Cards overall BABIP is .313. I did not know where to look to find Team LD% but if our overall team BABIP is only .313 then I think that would mean that we are getting unlucky on the Line Drives the team hits. This jives with my impression that the hard hit balls seem to be right at defenders while the groundballs are finding holes. I can think of two line drives right at people yesterday (Dunc, 1st, D. Lee; Schu, ?inning, DeRosa 3B). If I knew where to look for LD% I could check my impressions.
by indakind on
May 5, 2008 10:22 AM EDT
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the team BABIP is 22 points above the league average
in the last 10 years, no team has maintained a BABIP that far above league average except the colorado rockies, in various years. anything more than 10 points above league average is extremely rare.
by lboros on
May 5, 2008 10:25 AM EDT
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Not arguing that some regression will not happen
I’m just saying that I that I think the Cards have been unlucky on their hard hit balls. I think that we will see a corresponding rise in slugging as the Cards play in more home run friendly ballparks while they lose a bit on the batting average as more grounders find gloves. But again, I have the impression that so far the Cards have been unlucky in that the line drives this team hits seem to be right at defenders many times. I just don’t know where to look to confirm/debunk my impression.
by indakind on
May 5, 2008 10:31 AM EDT
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we can expect more power from glaus and duncan
it may be that the increase in their power will compensate for the inevitable decrease in singles. i certainly hope so.
by lboros on
May 5, 2008 11:45 AM EDT
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If we continue to take walks
Then when the power turns on we might actually see an increase in scoring despite a decrease in batting average.
by indakind on
May 5, 2008 11:49 AM EDT
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absolutely
i’d gladly trade a bunch of singles for a few more homers.
by lboros on
May 5, 2008 11:57 AM EDT
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speaking of Colorado
perhaps the Cards’ collective lack of power can be partly attributed to park effects at Busch III, since they’ve played so many games at home so far.
Three games in Colorado might tell us whether this is really is a punch-n-judy club….
by nota bene on
May 5, 2008 4:57 PM EDT
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That was not a "lucky" hit...
Albert scorched that ball down the line. It would have been out of the park had he gotten some lift on the ball. Nothing cheap about it. D.GOOCH
-- GOOCH
by GOOCH24 on
May 5, 2008 10:23 AM EDT
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again, maybe albert's double wasn't lucky
that’s really beside the point. the overall point still holds: the cards can’t expect to keep getting hits on groundballs at this rate.
by lboros on
May 5, 2008 10:27 AM EDT
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But I also think...
...we’re looking a little too hard now for periphrials to suggest what we’re seeing on the field isn’t real. I think it’s time to acknowledge that we all underestimated this team. We underestimated Tony and his abilitty to manage this team. We underestimated the young players stepping in to take the place of the old foges we let go. We underestimated Dave Duncan’s ability to get the most out of journeyman pitchers.
As for your point, Larry, I agree we’ll see fewer groundball singles as the season moves forward. But we should also see more homers. And I expect the speed on this team to be utilized more in the running game as the season wears on (particularly if Barton gets more PT). That sounds like a good tradeoff for the Cardinal offense to me.
Chris over at THT has an interesting article up today and he has some nice things to say about Tony and whether he thinks the Cardinals are going to fall off the table:
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/how-soon-is-now/
-- GOOCH
by GOOCH24 on
May 5, 2008 10:30 AM EDT
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I believe what we see on the field is real
and peripherals are showing how the Cards accomplish that. Of course regression to mean for some stats is to be expected, as some drift in other stats (positive or negative).
What can’t regress to the mean is the hunger for wins, for playing time, that is the big boost that allows to extract 110% from some players, and to have a team that performs maybe a little bit more than the sum of its parts. Moreover (but this is not luck, this was intentional), IMHO the improvement in defense is giving a big boost in confidence, to both the pitchers and the players. To lose a baserunner because you’re aggressive is something you can mange, to give up a run because you play bad defense is killer.
GO CARDS!!!
by SuperSeve on
May 5, 2008 11:26 AM EDT
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i'm not trying to prove a thesis
i’m not starting from a premise —“what we’re seeing on the field isn’t real” -—and then looking for evidence to support it. we’ll find out in due time whether they’re for real or not; there’s currently evidence on both sides of the question. i pointed out one marker that is particularly compelling, and it happens to be a negative one — but i also noted a number of positive markers in today’s post, as i’ve done that throughout the first month.
by lboros on
May 5, 2008 11:26 AM EDT
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one other thing, gooch
now that i’ve read the THT article — go back and read my post from last Thursday, “the month that was.” it’s a very similar post with a very similar conclusion - it’s safe to assume that this team is better than we expected.
http://www.vivaelbirdos.com/2008/5/1/470997/the-month-that-was
by lboros on
May 5, 2008 11:36 AM EDT
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noticed that
That article did use alot of the same logic as LB’s article.
by cdb on
May 5, 2008 11:57 AM EDT
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Kudos!
Indeed, and I don’t mean to suggest you’re trying to prove the Cardinals are a paper tiger. Rather, I see your post mostly in the vein of my own examination of the Cards start…trying to figure out if it is real, how real it is, and what we might expect going ahead. But I do think we’ve all operated from an underlying assumption that this would be a weak team. I predicted no better than a 4th place finish. My bet is that if you look at a team in a moment of time…a month, two months, a season…and you look at all the perephrials…some are going to be out of line with the average across the league. IOW, an unusual periph here and there is actually usual. ;)
I’m just warning against confirmation bias. We all can fall into the trap of looking for the evidence that confirms our presumptions and ignoring the evidence that contradicts it. I’m not saying that’s what you’ve done, Larry. I’m just offering a general cautionary for us all. As you’ve noted in previous posts, there is alot about the Cardinal’s performance that suggests performance rather than luck and we need to look at the whole picture.
The Cardinals are starting to make a believer out of me. D.GOOCH
-- GOOCH
by GOOCH24 on
May 5, 2008 12:33 PM EDT
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4th place in the Central may be good...
Right now, the Central looks like a MUCH tougher division than people thought. Everybody recognized that the Brewers and Cubs would be good, everybody knew that the Pirates would stink. So far, the Reds have played much worse than I would have expected, that may or may not continue. But as things stand now, 4th place in the Central may have 83 wins or so.
by ckeiner on
May 5, 2008 12:48 PM EDT
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I just think this was a hard team to predict
Given the level of turnover from the 2007 to the 2008 Cards, and the uncertainty of the recuperating pitchers, I thought it was a fool’s errand to predict how the Cards would do (although I thought they would be better than expected, with expected being a low 70 win season).
I ran the numbers the other day and 44% of the offensive production from 2007 was no longer on the team; that’s a lot of turnover to account for. Given that a lot of the replacements (all of the OF guys, at least) had minimal ML histories, you have extra variability in trying to project the season.
I wonder what impact the weather has played. The Cards have played a majority of their games at home, and it’s been a cold spring, with few really warm days (never thought I would need a blanket to watch my son’s tennis match in May, but that’s what I was doing Saturday morning/afternoon). Subjectively (meaning I have no real proof), one would suspect that cold weather would supress scoring, which would help the starters be better than expected and keep the number of HRs (both for and against) down.
Anyway, the one thing this season predicted was that it would be hard to predict, and one month in that’s the only certainty. But they are making it fun to watch and see what happens.
Dave
by SydneyDave on
May 5, 2008 2:13 PM EDT
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+1 ...
There was A LOT of underestimating going on around here … and a lot of people are still trying to stick to those guns … this team WILL win around 88 games … maybe more … and that will be enough to contend with the scubs … I can’t believe I’m still hearing all of this negativity around this site …
Culture of Winning: 10 World Championships, 17 Pennants, 6 Division Championships ...
by Cardinals4Ever on
May 5, 2008 6:06 PM EDT
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With all his greatness
Pujols has got to learn to be more disciplined at the plate. ( I don’t mean to say he is bad, but he is getting his ownself out in too many key spots) It seems he is going to get the Barry Bonds treatment from here on and if he could learn to be as selective as Bonds, there is no telling how high he could go. Face it, the Cardinals will probably not come up with the hitter needed to protect Pojols, so it is going to be up to Albert himself.
Maybe he should give his old friend Barry a call, ask for some tutoring. Just maybe Bonds won’t be so selfish as to not offer some help. I bet he could be an influence on Albert if he tried.
by ridgesee on
May 5, 2008 10:29 AM EDT
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He's taken more walks than anyone in the game
this season. He is pretty damn disciplined! Sure, he is going to expand the zone from time to time from sheer frustration, boredom, and yes, even getting fooled once in a blue moon. You can’t look at those without looking at the many, many times he exhibits extreme patience.
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
by cardzfan24 on
May 5, 2008 12:52 PM EDT
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You are right about the walks
I know that. I said he wasn’t bad and he is not for sure. I was just saying what greatness he could reach if he could become as disciplined a hitter as bonds. Hitters as a whole are not as disciplined now as in the past, but Pujols could be among the best if he worked at it and he is, I see him talking to himself when at bat.
It’s just at this place in time and circumstances he finds himself in he needs to concentrate on it. As great as I think Pujols is, He would not rate in my top ten in pitch selection. Frank Robinson, Musial, Ted Williams, Bonds, Dimaggio would.
by ridgesee on
May 5, 2008 1:26 PM EDT
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Well,
Pujols can’t turn around on a perfect jam-job fastball like Bonds could at the height of his steroid era—part of why Bonds could afford to be so disciplined was that he could handle those perfect 3-2 pitches on the corners, because he coudl power stuff over the fence that would end up as pop fouls for pretty much everyone else
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
by Valatan on
May 5, 2008 2:15 PM EDT
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Plate Discipline = not striking out
You are acting like Pujols can’t hold a candle to Bonds… I think differently. Check out the fangraphs k% comparing the two.
Pujols rookie season (and every year since then) he’s been lower than Bonds.
"...but If I can do some damage and help my team win, I'm going to stay in there" -Albert
by BigMOman on
May 5, 2008 3:46 PM EDT
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I'm not saying that
but they are very different hitters, especially during the Bonds steroid era. Fewer strikeouts, fewer walks, much more willing to place the pitches that the pitcher gives you.
"You say the world has lost it's love. I say embrace what it's made of" - Dar Williams
by Valatan on
May 5, 2008 3:59 PM EDT
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Who do you mean has fewer walks, Ks, etc.?
Because Pujols has consistently had fewer strikeouts. I don’t believe you can compare their walk rates as an indicator of “plate discipline” because a large part of BB% is how willing the pitcher is to give you pitches you can hit…
Basically what I’m getting at is that Pujols is just as (if not more) disciplined as Bonds at the plate. And looking back on the thread to which I replied, I think I maybe should have replied to ridgesee!
I wish fangraphs had data on the O swing %, etc. for seasons further back! That would be the best indication.
"...but If I can do some damage and help my team win, I'm going to stay in there" -Albert
by BigMOman on
May 5, 2008 4:12 PM EDT
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That's an interesting point.
Barry started racking up a ton of walks in part because of the massive amount of intentional walks he was issued. It doesn’t take any discipline to walk in that situation. Pujols has not yet started to receive that kind of respect in terms of intentional passes.
using strikeouts as a measure of batting eye seems a bit misleading though. That may just indicate that Albert makes contact more often, not that he has better plate discipline. walk rates are the most appropriate to measure plate discipline.
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
by cardzfan24 on
May 5, 2008 4:18 PM EDT
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K%
After thinking about it, I think that you’re right; for a typical batter, BB% is the best gauge of plate discipline. I think we can both agree, however, that comparing a tremendous BB% against an otherworldly BB% doesn’t tell you quite as much!
Isn’t it frustrating having a baseball player on our team that defies measurement?! Haha.
"...but If I can do some damage and help my team win, I'm going to stay in there" -Albert
by BigMOman on
May 5, 2008 4:24 PM EDT
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I know
it kills me. albert is the gold standard, the hitter who does it all. guys, we have a player on our squad who hits for a high average, gets on base at an incredible clip, hits for monstrous power, doesn’t strike out, plays awesome defense at first, and isn’t a scumbag.
All hail King Albert.
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
by cardzfan24 on
May 5, 2008 4:26 PM EDT
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It's impossible to truly measure Bonds' discipline with stats
He got so many unintentional intentional walks, let alone intentional walks, that it’s just not really going to work. And for good reason, he was better than Pujols as a pure hitter plate discipline aside and honestly Puj probably isn’t going to reach that level unless…well you know. That allowed him to be more disciplined as he could take more pitches as he could hit with 2-strikes like no one in history. Lost in his incredible power was that he was hitting .360 to go along with that despite pitchers making every attempt to pitch to unhittable zones. Pujols can hit pitcher’s pitches, that’s all Bonds did for 4-5 years.
That said, Pujols is as disciplined a hitter there is in the game now and to say otherwise is craziness. He’s not Bonds, but no one is and no one likely will be.
With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch
by joker24 on
May 5, 2008 4:31 PM EDT
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Agreed
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
by cardzfan24 on
May 5, 2008 4:35 PM EDT
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One thing that I really enjoy...
since I dislike Barry so much, is that Albert is a superior hitter to Barry at the same point in his career. Which to me shows that Albert is a better un-enhanced talent than Bonds.
I remember talking back in 2002, 2003 about how impossible it would be for Albert to keep up these levels. How many more good years before he would be Hall of Fame materials? (if his career ended abruptly)
"...but If I can do some damage and help my team win, I'm going to stay in there" -Albert
by BigMOman on
May 5, 2008 4:42 PM EDT
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If he's even an average hitter for the next 3 years he's probably in
Best start to a career probably ever that’d be enough I’d think. And of course in all probability he’ll be way better than that.
And at this point in their careers Bonds had probably passed him up IMO putting up 205/204 OPS+ in his age 27/28 seasons. But I don’t think we can say anything about that with any definiteness until Pujols’ age 33 season.
With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch
by joker24 on
May 5, 2008 4:48 PM EDT
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i say 4 years (including this one)
that puts him at around 400 homers, say his average is around a cumulative .325, 1250 RBI’s, at least one ring, and one MVP, though should have 2 or 3 more (bonds’ forehead stole a few) even a gold glove, perhaps 2 at that point. (those are all very resonable numbers) also the most dominating hitter not mentioned in the mitchell report up there with maybe arod, and more clutch than arod dreamed of being. i think that all adds up to a HOF membership
by berkels77 on
May 5, 2008 4:49 PM EDT
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I'd say
he is in now, he just need to reach the minimum service requirement. In the event of some awful tragedy, I would say he would make it in now
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
by cardzfan24 on
May 5, 2008 4:56 PM EDT
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I hope you are knockin' on wood when you type that....
by gonzostl on
May 5, 2008 5:12 PM EDT
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You live the life you are given
Albert can dodge bullets baby.
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
by cardzfan24 on
May 5, 2008 5:14 PM EDT
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BigMoman
I was not thinking so much about the amount of walks when I first made my comments as which pitch did he choose to try to make contact with in the pitch count. How many times have you seen Pujols along with the majority of other hitters in the Majors after grounding out, striking out, flying out or popping up on about the 6th or 7th pitch of the count and you can look back and say there were one, maybe two and even sometimes three better pitches that were more hittable. But no, they get sucked into swinging at at a pitch that you can’t do anything with.
Now since day one the best hitters in the world have done this from time to time. Even the best can look silly at one bat and come back and look great in the next at bat, but over the years there have been great hitters that excelled in not doing this very often. Also, I have found that these small group of selective hitters also proved to be the ones that you couldn’t slip a pitch down the middle with out them crushing it. (no matter if it was the 1st, 3rd, or whatever pitch they saw, they were geared)
All I am saying is this is the only thing that Pujols does not excel in. The only thing that keeps me from saying he is better than Musial…as good as Williams…as good as I’ve seen. A lot of Pujols’ outs are made on the 2nd or third best pitch he saw in the at bat. Now that doesn’t mean that Pujols is not one of the greatest hitters I ever saw. He is, but I can name a good dozen that were better selective hitters, and if Pujols could be a little more patient, I would not argue with anyone that wanted to call him the best.
by ridgesee on
May 5, 2008 6:12 PM EDT
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Not among the best?
No one has started their career as well as Pujols has. NOBODY. What he is doing is unprecedented. You are either extremely hard to impress, or you just look at the ballplayers from the eras of your youth more fondly. Giving Albert his due credit does not discredit the greats who have come before. You say he wouldn’t rank in your top ten in pitch selection, and then just mention five other guys, three of whom have a lower OBP than Albert does. When everything is all said and done, Albert won’t be outside the top ten in any hitting skill. All time.
Challenging Albert to be more disciplined in his approach is like telling the Mona Lisa to be more of a classic, like telling Mount Everest to be taller.
It just doesn’t make sense.
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
by cardzfan24 on
May 5, 2008 4:10 PM EDT
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more poetic
and less nerdy than my response.
It’s always great to just think about what Pujols has done in a Cardinal uniform. Gosh I love that he plays for our team!
"...but If I can do some damage and help my team win, I'm going to stay in there" -Albert
by BigMOman on
May 5, 2008 4:14 PM EDT
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Indeed
He has taken hitting and made it an art form. They should teach his hitting approach as a college level course.
"I believe he’s been reincarnated, that he played before, in the twenties and thirties, and he’s back to prove something." - Former teammate Mark McGwire about Albert Pujols
by cardzfan24 on
May 5, 2008 4:19 PM EDT
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Except BA....
He’s going to need to hit .360 for the next 5-6 years+ to crack the top 10 all-time batting average marks. Tony Gwynn is the only player who broke in post-1940 to be in top 20, so if Albert can even get there it would be a monumental achievement. I think he’s going to win his second batting title this year though, so that’s a start.
by mattisnotfrench on
May 5, 2008 5:31 PM EDT
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cardzfan
you might be right when you say you have a tendency to look back on the players of your youth more fondly. I try not to, but you do seem to remember the good and kinda’ overlook the bad, but I swear the hitter of the 50’s and 60’ didn’t dive out over the plate as much for late breaking sliders like they do now or fish as much for ball in the dirt….maybe you just forget..I am getting old you know…but Musial, 6 times batting champion, Williams .400, Dimaggio 56 game hitting streak then a 26 streak immediately after that…so I,m not totally crazy.
by ridgesee on
May 5, 2008 6:29 PM EDT
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i have to agree with cardzfan...
Pujols is extremely disiplined, esp. this year…sure he has gotten himself out a few times but i have seen Bonds do that too…the thing is you see Pujols everyday so it seems more often but in reality i would bet it isnt that much more than Bonds did.
"Back in the day when I played, a pitcher had 3 pitches: a fastball, a curveball, a slider, a changeup and a good sinker pitch." - Mike Shannon
by nomar34 on
May 5, 2008 1:22 PM EDT
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Regarding Joe Morgan...
WTF??? I always wondered why everyone was bashing this guy until last night watching him on ESPN for the Cubs/Cards game.
He seems to make stuff up just to suit his needs.
He starts out by saying that the Col. Wellemeyer is not a hard thrower and then The Col. hits 94 to 96 on the gun in the 1st inning.
After that he compares the Col. to Marquis saying that they both have to make good pitches becuase niether pitcher is a strike out pitcher even though the Col. leads the Birds in stikeouts with nearly 1 per inning or better.
Joe Morgan, I say this even though I usually refrain from calling names behind my internet handle, is an idiot. I just tuned him out at one point like I do my girlfriend when she is ranting about something I don’t want to hear.
I wish ESPN would employ the Morgan vote. If enough callers phone in asking him to shut up they should mute is sound. He can keep talking but at least he won’t ruin the game with his mindless drivel.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
by Red Blazer on
May 5, 2008 11:12 AM EDT
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i have been
complaining about the announcers for some time now. John is sappy, but Joe is just wrong. I think he has become lazy and isn’t prepared for games. I must admit though I can tolerate him more than Tim McCarver. Al and Dan are really a major disappointment to me as well. I expected the best, and we have a team of announcers that just don’t care that ther
