First Month Surprises
Was it father-son day at the ballpark yesterday? In the bottom of the 4th or 5th, Lohse popped up to 2nd and Fontenot caught the ball standing next to Derrek Lee. It looked like it was "Take your son to work day."
There have been a lot of surprises for the Cards the first 5 weeks or so of this season, not the least of which is their record and the fact that they're hovering around 1st place. Certainly, Wellemeyer, Looper, and Lohse have all been surprisingly good, though it appears that Wellemeyer may be coming down to Earth. Three of his last 4 starts have been below average. Few of us expected Looper to pitch well this year but we didn't expect it last either and on May 17 of last year, his ERA was 2.29. Hopefully he can keep his ERA around its current level. Even if it increased half a run, it would still be much better than most of us expected. Lohse has been excellent as well, yesterday's 4th inning notwithstanding.
Wainwright's been positively fantastic -- better than I and most expected from him but I'm not sure I'd call his start surprising. The 2nd half of last year he emerged as one of the better starters in the NL. He's begun this year as one of the BEST starters in the NL.
Kyle McClellan -- need I say more?
The lack of homers has been somewhat surprising as well. So far, we have only 23 homers in 31 games. This is a pace for 120 homers for the season. Last year's version hit 141 homers and I, and I think most of us, expected more homers from this year's bunch. Pujols has just 6 -- not awful, but on pace for just 31. Duncan has the same # of homers as Molina and Skip Schumaker. Glaus has only 1. Maybe as the weather warms up, the Cards will be able to pick up their pace a little. Also, could our low homer total be a result from so many games at home? Busch III is notorious for surpressing homers and we've played a surprising 20 of 31 games at home so far this year. Maybe as the Cards play more games in smaller parks, the homer totals will increase.
Albert Pujols has reached base in every game this season -- a streak, of course, of 31 games. Again, I'm not sure if this is surprising but it's a hell of a feat, nonetheless. In 2004, Barry Bonds had an OBP of .609 and an OPS of 1.421. He walked an unbelievable 232 times that season but his longest streak of reaching base was 29 games. Pujols is walking in some pretty high cotton right now. Can there be any doubt as to who the best player in the game is -- 6 homers or not?
The defense, IMO, has been quite a pleasant surprise. No one expected Troy Glaus to be Rolen but he's been solid. In fact, he's first in the NL in RZR. There was some concern about Ankiel's ability to handle CF but he's been terrific. It's been 3-4 years since he handled CF as well as Ankiel's handled it so far this year, yesterday's misplay notwithstanding. Everyone's entitled to one, right? Like Glaus, Ankiel is first in the NL in RZR among CF's. There was concern that Izturis was no longer a solid SS and quite a bit of angst among the faithful about his numerous errors this spring. He's been very good as well and is 2nd in the NL in RZR. Schumaker's been very good everywhere he's played. The bottom line is that the new guys are all performing, defensively, as well as or, in most cases, better than their predecessors.
The biggest surprise IMO, however, is our walk differential. Our hitters are first in baseball in receiving walks -- 150. The team OBP is 2nd in the majors to the Cubs. From the mound, our pitchers have yielded the 4th fewest walks in the majors -- just 92. That means that we've had a net gain of 58 walks so far this season -- almost 2 per game. However, the surprises don't stop there.
Schumaker is seeing 1/2 a pitch more per PA than last year and Ankiel's P/PA is up .38 over last year. Still, many of the Cardinal regulars are actually seeing FEWER pitches per PA than last year. Pujols, Kennedy, Duncan, Molina have actually seen their P/PA fall from last year. Duncan's is down about the same amount that Skip's has gone up but he's walking at a higher rate. How about that? Fewer P/PA but a higher BB rate. Pujols, too, is walking more often despite actually seeing fewer pitches per PA.
To me, this says 1 of two things. The first possibility is that we've seen a lot worse pitching so far this year than we saw last year -- pitchers who walk batters more often than the average pitcher. If this is the case, our hitters' lives are going to get considerably more difficult over the course of the next 5 months.
The other possibility is that our hitters have a lot better pitch recognition than they did last year. They're hitting the pitches they should hit (as opposed to taking them or fouling them off) and taking the pitches they should take. Hopefully, this is the correct answer but I haven't explored the first possibilty at all. It may be that some combination of both is true. If this possibility is correct, obviously, our hitters deserve a lot of credit. Hal McRae, though, would deserve a ton of credit as well. He's taken a lot of heat from Cards' fans over the last year and a half or so but the entire team can't have better pitch recognition w/o some help from the hitting coach. One or two people maybe, and I'd bet he's had a lot of influence on Skip and Ludwick but, for an entire team to have better pitch recognition, he's got to have had a ton of influence on them and deserves credit.
Finally, it wouldn’t be a Sunday if I didn’t piss people off, so here goes:
The fact that LaRussa extended Wainwright too long vs. the Astros last week had an effect on Friday’s start vs. the Cubs. Wainer was removed after 85 pitches w/ the Cards up 1 in the 7th Friday. Tony almost even admitted to being careful w/ Wainwright after throwing the 2nd most pitches in the majors this year. If we’re going to compete in the NL Central, we’re going to have to win games against the Cubs and, normally, you’d want your best pitcher in the game w/ a 1 run lead in the 7th. Wainer’s FB was still in the low 90’s and his pitch count wasn’t too high. He had just given up a single but they weren’t exactly hitting lasers off him. Tony pulled him to be careful w/ the pitch count after having him toss 126 vs. the Astros.
There are 2 problems w/ this. The first is that the pitch count in the Cubs game becomes irrelevant after having thrown so many vs. the Astros. We know that there is a relationship between pitching WHEN TIRED and arm injuries. There is no relationship between THROWING OFTEN or the total number of pitches thrown and arm injuries. Keeping Wainwright at 85 can’t put the toothpaste back in the tube after he threw 126 in the previous game. It may seem counterintuitive, but that’s what we know, empirically about pitch counts and arm injuries. See Baseball Between the Numbers if you need to for reference.
Second, the Cubs are a tougher team than the Astros. Tony felt forced into pulling Wainwright against the better team after leaving him in there against the weaker team. Does this make sense? Tony knew he’d be facing the Cubs in his next start and, if he believes that a pitcher needs to throw fewer pitches in the subsequent start after throwing a lot in the previous start, it makes no sense to risk his having to be pulled early against the Cubs. If anything, it would make more sense, though still be wrong empirically, to save him for the Cubs start by having him throw 85 against the Astros. In 2007, the Cards had no pitcher finish in the top 30 in Pitcher Abuse Points. In 2006, Jeff Suppan was 23rd, and Carp was 38th. In 2005, Marquis, strangely finished 9th, and Carp was 39th. In ’04, Woody Williams finished 23rd. Carp wasn’t in the top 60. In 2003, the year Tony had no bullpen whatsoever and, IMO, overextended Woody and Matt Morris to compensate for the loss of Izzy and turmoil in the pen, Woody finished 7th in baseball in PAP. Right now, Wainwright is 2nd. It’s early, but it’s problematic. Having Wainer go 85 the start after throwing 125 isn’t going to solve the problem either, regardless of the fact that he felt fine after the Houston game. It is a big deal.
The Cards, so far this year, are 4-1 in rubber games -- losing only to the Giants at home 2 sundays ago. They're also 2-2 on Sundays -- so that makes today's game another kind of rubber game. Let's get a win for the home team as we finish off this homestand.
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93 comments
Comments
Nice post.
I think McClellan has been the biggest, and most pleasant, surprise. I wonder if he might get a shot at closing when Izzy is no longer the man.
"Is this Heaven?"
"No, it;s Iowa."
"I could've sworn it was Heaven."
by MilCardFan on May 4, 2008 10:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Pleasant Surprise, Indeed
Thanks for your observations, and yes rejoice Cardinal Nation for the amazing April.
It does look like TLR was pretty saavy with his roster. I recall that we’all:
1. complained about Ank being in center and preferring Schu since Rasmus might be up later
2. called for Iz2’s head after his errors in ST, and chided TLR about his comments on Iz2’s "good hands"
3. gave up on Schu after his poor start and lambasted TLR for anointing Schu as our lead off hitter even though Barton was hot
I think I want to get hold of those tea leafs that TLR’s been reading (surely he is a graduate of Hogwart’s). Of course, I still have plenty of disagreements with TLR’s managing (agreed on Wagonmaker’s 126 pitches, and want more BR and less Iz2), but it looks like he is pretty good handling young players and getting the most out of them this year.
Back to Wainer, I hear what you are saying about empirical evidence on lack of correlation b/t throwing often and total # of injuries. However, to me medical science is a lot more mysterious because there are a lot more factors to control for. I hear about some typical clinical trial sample sizes of 1k-4k, and I think to myself, there’s got to be easily more than 4k factors to control for… Our bodies are just too amazing and complex, so I am not too upset at Wainer being pulled at 85. Admittedly, I might think differently if we lost the gam.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on May 4, 2008 11:18 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
What is the countdown on to Russ Springer getting released/
retiring? Poor guy has nothing left in the tank. I love how great he was last season but he can’t seem to get anyone out this year.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on May 4, 2008 11:22 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It kinda sucks
that we spent 3.5 mil on him doesn’t it? If Tony wanted a lefty in the pen instead, Flores has looked fantastic down in Memphis and had a great two innings yesterday.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on May 4, 2008 11:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I just wonder if he's still hurt.......
or has just aged out.? He hasn’t looked all that good, and his elbow and hand movements when he was on the mound yesterday made me think he might still be hurt…..
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on May 4, 2008 12:01 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe when Mulder gets called up?
Springer gets DFA’d. I wouldn’t be in a hurry to trade Reyes, either.
by gocards62 on May 4, 2008 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I guess I just see Waino's outing different.
If Tony said it was about pitch counts and that was the reason why he was pulled then I’ll go along with what was typed. I haven’t read anything on that, so I’m not sure.
However, in that particular game the Cubs had a few good looks at him and while he got better in the latter half of the season last year, they have hit him reasonably hard. There was a few balls tagged reasonably hard that night, luckily up rather than out.
The plan of action went to perfection until the ninth, and Waino couldn’t have done anything for that, because by then the conversation would be back to his pitch count being high, than anything else.
I, personally, didn’t see much wrong with it.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on May 4, 2008 11:43 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs
from the article I linked
"We were not going to push him at all," La Russa said. "We had the bullpen fresh and ready to go."
He took out his best pitcher, w/ a relatively low pitch count in a 1-run game against the division’s primary competition. Do you really believe he did it b/c he thinks that Randy Flores is a better pitcher than Wainwright?
And, again, the major complaint is NOT that he pulled Wainwright too early. The major complaint is that Tony fails to properly recognize the impact that high pitch counts may have on Wainwright. He thinks he can excuse a 126 pitch outing by pulling him after 85 the next game. If this is Wainwright’s only game in the 120’s, he’s probably OK. However, the fact that Tony, apparently, sees nothing wrong w/ these high pitch counts is troubling—it means there are probably more to come!
by chuckb on May 4, 2008 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
hard to say
I think the bullpen is a going to be a perpetually changing beast this year… so hard to say how often Wainer is going to be overused. I thought that since we won both games, it was fine. it will remain to be seen just how much endurance Wainwright has. maybe he’ll just be one of those few gems of a pitcher that hardly gets injured. I wouldn’t risk it though
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 4, 2008 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I see
where your argument stands from now. In essence you’re taking the line that you see Tony having the thought that count matters instead of count when fatigued. I didn’t read it that way when I read it, but I can see the basis.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on May 4, 2008 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
to me
the most agitating thing about TLR is the fact he relies on his eyes…it just makes me cringe…we all know that guy at the water cooler that swears Miles plays good defense because he SEES it
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on May 4, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Pulling Wainer
pulling him also removed another bat from the lineup.
C'mon you Redbirds, lets prove em' wrong, again!
by yer dog first on May 4, 2008 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Number Agreement
Totally random thought here….
I just realized that the VEB name suffers from lack of number agreement. The pronoun is singular while the noun is plural. I guess I am slow. I am sure everyone know this already. Was there a reason for this? Maybe there should be a VEB faq to address dumb questions like this?
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on May 4, 2008 1:13 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I meant article instead of pronoun
Grammar is not my strength.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on May 4, 2008 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There may be an explanation someplace
But it goes back to the ‘67 Cards. On at least a few occasions Orlando Cepeda stood in the clubhouse after a win and shouted, “El Birdos!” and his teammates would answer. “Yeah!” Silliness. Certainly Cepeda knew he was yelling gibberish. Larry just added the viva, which doesn’t agree either, for that matter.
That’s the reason.
by Youneverknow on May 4, 2008 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
History Lesson
Thanks. It’s good to find out more about Card’s history and about the 67-68 Cards. Since Cepeda was from Puerto Rico, I am assuming that he was fluent in Spanish, hench the gibberish.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on May 4, 2008 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There's an FAQ about it...
On the left side of the home made – a few clicks down, titled “Why vivaelbirdos?”
by six on May 4, 2008 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Don't I feel stupid
Note to self. Read directions before begining an exam.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on May 4, 2008 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh!
Didn’t mean to make you feel stupid. IThe FAQ is hard to see.
by six on May 4, 2008 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
No Worries
I enjoy self-deprecating humor.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on May 4, 2008 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Birdos is plural
but many times a team name such as Cardinales or Cachorros is preceded by el in the Spanish language, so it’s really not all that unusual
"because at the end of the day they still are the Chicago Cubs"
by rockin the red on May 4, 2008 2:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not Sure
I’ve never heard it that way. For example, I’ve always heard Dodgers or Angels being referred to as Los Dodgers or Los Angels here in L.A. I guess I need to ask Jaime Jarin about this.
born Dodger blue, now dyed Cardinals red
by totalloser on May 4, 2008 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
It may go back to the whole collective noun problem.
The Brits do collective nouns differently than we do.
British English speakers say “Arsenal are a great team.”
We say, “St. Louis is a great team.” But of course we say “The Cardinals are a great team.”
We focus more on the form of the word, whether it appears on its face to be plural—it ends in an “s”.
The British look at a team as a collection of players, therefore even a singular sounding term refers to a collective whole of plural players. Therefore, “Arsenal are a great team.”
by tom s. on May 4, 2008 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
We know very little...
about pitching injuries. Larry, you cite our best evidence and theory to date, but the fact of the matter is that there’s more about pitching injuries and what causes them than we don’t know. So it’s hard to fault Tony for going his own way…when we don’t have much of an argument for him following the current shaky consensus. So it’s hard to say that removing Wainer early won’t have any effect. It might. D.GOOCH
-- GOOCH
by GOOCH24 on May 4, 2008 1:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
rubber game indeed
Since I don’t get to see many Cardinal games on TV, tonight’s series finale would normally be a treat. After getting to SEE my Cards on Friday, WGN, and enduring the debacle yesterday via Fox, I can now cap it off with an ESPN Sunday night game.
The turd in the punch bowl, however, will be the irrepressible and disgusting Joe Morgan. Is there any more worthless (and annoying) color commentator than him? Sigh.
I loved the last-two-games analysis of Wainer, above, and I share some concern. But I also wonder… if Izzy hadn’t ruined the game plan, if the issue, important as it might be, would have even come up.
by the Tewk on May 4, 2008 1:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I have bowling league tonight
so I won’t be hearing any commentators. I expect little crowds to be standing around and looking up at the tv’s at the rock n’ bowl tonight (wishing it was an afternoon game)
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 4, 2008 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Also on pitch counts...
...Tony may still talk the traditional line on pitch counts, but ever since the Morris / Benes era he’s watched pitch counts fairly religiously with younger pitchers. I remember noticing this with Ankiel. Also, with Haren and Wainer getting seasons in the bullpens, it dramatically cut back on their pitch counts. Wainwright’s start wasn’t merely an exception in terms of the rest of the league…it’s exceptional in terms of Tony’s approach to pitch counts and younger pitchers since 01. D.GOOCH
-- GOOCH
by GOOCH24 on May 4, 2008 1:22 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I didn't mind Wainwright
going 126 (or 125?) in that start, nor did I mind him getting the early hook in his last outing. I’m think the decision to remove him was made only partially because of the high pitch count before. I think Tony wanted to make sure he had no chance to lose the game. As for high pitch counts, I guess I’m not sold yet as to their negative impact on a pitcher, unless of course a guy is throwing 120 plus every time out there.
The surprises are all great.
by mikeonthecards on May 4, 2008 1:30 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
It would be a bad time for Welley
to come back down to earth tonight. we just can’t hang with a hitting fest against the cubs. unless the homeruns finally start to streak towards the sky
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 4, 2008 1:38 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice article Houstoncardinal
Very thoughtful and temperate. Amongst the many positive observations, I think everyone must admit that this is not the team that wins a pennant. We will have to trade pitching to find the offensive protection for Pujols. I like Troy, but he isn’t it. Ludwig doesn’t have the experience or approach. Akiel, when asked to play a role, 2nd, has been much more discriminating at the plate, creating walks and more opportunities for Albert. Duncan when asked to bat 2nd, is more productive because he seems willing to hit the middle. I ‘m sure everyone agrees that this is a poor use of his power potential and limited outfield range. We are short an athlete, a situational hitter that can hit for power when needed. We need an RBI man. Otherwise we will never get to see Albert play, and that sucks.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on May 4, 2008 1:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
good point on Ankiel
he has been trying way too hard when they put him in at cleanup, trying to crush the ball. he has been more disciplined at no.2
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 4, 2008 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Can we all agree now to hold off for a bit on the re-signing of Lohse?
Overall, he has been a great value and I laud Mo for the shrewd pickup. But last week there was much clamoring to re-sign the guy now. Given the fact that we have some pretty good looking talent at AAA now and that Lohse is likely to revert to the mean, let’s just hold off a while. Now if he has a sub-3 era around the all-star break, then let’s think about whether Dunc (or more importantly the stellar defense and effects of pitching half you game in BIII instead of a bandbox) has somehow turned it around for Lohse. And at that time I wouldn’t be opposed to discussing something like a two year extension. But now is not the time.
I’m as happy as anyone about the great start but lets hold off on reading too much into one good month of baseball.
by OCCardsFan on May 4, 2008 2:07 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
door number 3
re the walks for the birds this year, i think a 3rd factor may come into play, which is that pitching around our lineup poses little threat. despite all the free base-runners and high OBP, we far from first in runs scored. our conversion of base-runners to runs is poor enough that at the first sign of trouble, pitchers don’t hesitate to walk player A to get to player B or set up for a double play or …though some more selectivity is evident for some hitters, there is simply not enough “fear factor” in our lineup for opponents to worry with. not much tlr can do but try to make sure that his highest OBP guys bat in front of albert. albert is our most consistent threat and tlr should do his best to try to make sure albert bats with the bases empty as few times as possible, ie, skippy/barton, kennedy/ryan in the 1 and 2 holes.
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
by sportsman on May 4, 2008 2:11 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Plausible
I think you may be on to something, even if that approach can ultimately cause the opposing pitcher to rack up a higher pitch count.
The Cards’ high on-base percentage has not translated into the number of runs we would hope for, and in the end, scoring runs is the point. There is not much of a fear factor for a pitcher working his way through our lineup.
by Youneverknow on May 4, 2008 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For anyone who complains about the Cards announcers
You need to listen to the Phillies guys. The number of mis-classified pitches is staggering, they watch the video and still say it wrong. They’ve called a change a curve, a curve a fastball, a fastball a changeup, a changeup a fastball etc. It’s amazing they can’t watch the replay and see what the pitch was.
With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch
by joker24 on May 4, 2008 2:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
well neither can i all the time...
but i’m not getting paid to do it.
in all seriousness, pitching has always seemed pretty complicated to me and i still don’t really fully understand it. does anybody know of a good resource online i can read to get a better understanding of the various pitches and pitching strategy in general? or is there some book i should read that does this?
by mattybobo on May 4, 2008 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
google and wiki
Wiki is awesome for this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Changeup
I’d eventually like to go through the pitch f/x data and see who has “the best X pitch” then google to see how they throw it. You also can’t go wrong searching Youtube.
For pitching mechanics in general Chris O’Leary’s site has breakdown’s of a lot of pitchers.
If you’re a pitcher best advice I can give is it’s better to have 2 plus pitches then 4-5 mediocre ones. It’s all about location and mixing speeds. If you’re a non pro hitter it’s easy to sit on a fast ball in hitters counts, however, if you’re a pro then they can throw anything at anytime for a strike…that’s why they’re pro’s :D
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on May 4, 2008 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
For those of us who struggle to see pitching...
... what would be extremely helpful is if someone would create a site that combined the text explanation of the differences among pitches with video illustrating those differences. (Of course someone probably has and I just haven’t found it.)
If you’ll indulge a math teacher who is overly fond of lesson-planning, here’s what I think would be ideal:
(1) The site would start with a general, text description of the different kinds of pitches, with some sort of tree illustrating which pitches belong to larger categories, and with images grips and pitch trajectories.
(2) Links to video of “ideal” pitches, with a number of instances of each pitch, so we can see, for example, lots of “ideal” sliders from different pitchers. The video would be combined with any necessary explanation about differences among those particular sliders, but a continued emphasis on what is common among them (what’s “slider” about them).
(3) Links to video of “non-ideal” pitches (curve-balls that don’t curve, sliders that don’t slide, etc.) and “borderline pitches” (curve-balls that are less easy to spot than, say, Wainwright’s 12-6), along with any necessary explanatory text.
If I had all the money in the world, I would commission someone to create that site. I’d make it myself, but I don’t know enough.
Whew. Just had to get that out of my system…
by six on May 4, 2008 7:37 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny about father/son day
because on Wednesday, my wife and I had rare seats on the first-base line for the Reds game. (“Rare” because we live about a thousand miles from town and rarely make it to any game.) There was one point where Adam Dunn singled, and was standing next to El Hombre waiting for the next pitch, with the same kind of father/son impression - but ALBERT was the little guy by comparison! Dunn is just unbelievably huge - he’s listed at 6’6” but I would have guessed him as at least 4 inches taller than AP, quite possibly more, and even wider at the shoulders. We could scarcely believe what we were seeing.
by StanTheManFan on May 4, 2008 2:16 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
that's why
they call him donkey.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on May 4, 2008 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I bet
the Phillies would give you Pat Burrel for Lohse…......the Yankees are in trouble, I bet the turn over Matsui for Lohse. I wonder if Lohse could stand to pitch for a team with a high power offense? I bet you could find a half dozen teams that would trade a big league hitter for Lohse right now. It would cost another 8 – 10 million in salary but there would be somebody with 100+ rbi’s to party about.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on May 4, 2008 3:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Ummm Burrell has been the third best hitter in the majors so far
0% chance we’re getting him for Lohse.
With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch
by joker24 on May 4, 2008 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Parisi did not start today
further leading credence to the rumor that he is getting the call up.
Perhaps the Cardinals are considering going to a 6 man rotation and are using Parisi to start that trend ultimately to have him replaced by Mulder.
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on May 4, 2008 4:01 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Why Parsi over Motte?
I can understand calling someone up but this one makes no sense to me. One is dominating AAA and already a reliver. The other is a fringe player and a starter.
by DriverZn on May 4, 2008 4:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Because they need a long man, not a short man
Motte is a 1 maybe 2 inning pitcher, they need someone who can come in and mop up for multiple innings like Reyes could.
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on May 4, 2008 5:25 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Dan Haren strikes out the side in HD
on TBS. Love it.
weeps inside
Still looking for 1985 Regular Season games on DVD/VHS
by Hardcore Legend on May 4, 2008 4:34 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah, I knew it was a bad idea to trade that guy. at least he’s on my fantasy team
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 4, 2008 5:49 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't look
all that impressive to me. What’s the upside here?
If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.
by cardsrul on May 4, 2008 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
none
his call up is temporary
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on May 4, 2008 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
c'mon, he has an upside
that is 6 starts, it isn’t like proof he is gonna be a career minor leaguer
"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman
by mattyfrommo on May 4, 2008 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Baseball Between the Numbers relies on the two studies that were linked here last week. The short-terms effects study is pretty silly, saying over the next couple of weeks a pitcher coming off a high pitch count game will give up ~3% more runs than the prior three weeks (which is even sillier than it looks, since a pitcher not coming off a pitch count game will give up ~2% more runs).
The second study concerns career usage. There’s nothing in there about one high pitch count start. The authors of the study even state that a 125-pitch count start is nothing to get excited about.
by greenback06 on May 4, 2008 5:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
Did I say it did?
Right now Wainwright is 2nd in baseball in PAP. Why? Because there have been at least 2 instances of LaRussa overextending Wainwright—out of 5 or 6 starts. He’s 10th, I think, in baseball in pitches per start despite an 85 pitch start. Why is he doing this? A lack of faith in many in the pen puts an increasing workload on Wainwright.
To quote:
“Right now, Wainwright is 2nd. It’s early, but it’s problematic.” You never know which start it’ll be that does it, but doing it repeatedly increasing the odds of injury. If LaRussa forces Wainwright into 8-10 starts of 115+ pitches, it’s a problem.
by chuckb on May 4, 2008 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
gagne
on the verge of blowing another save…..
by cdb on May 4, 2008 5:24 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
just walked in the tying run in the bottom of the ninth.....
by cdb on May 4, 2008 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
NL Central closers are horrible
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on May 4, 2008 5:29 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Francisco Cordero is pretty damn tough
But the Reds will probably only be in about 4 save opportunities all year. They either get blown out or run up the score when they get the chance. See today’s final score for an example.
by effin fisk on May 4, 2008 5:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'd say Reyes is probably on the verge of a trade, and that's why he was sent to AAA
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on May 4, 2008 5:26 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
yeah
huh?
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 4, 2008 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
TLR needed some maps
So Reyes picked up a TripTik.
by birdjam on May 4, 2008 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
yes, Reyes sent down Parisi called up
boo cubs, hooray beer
by Raconteur on May 4, 2008 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
There has been trade talk about Reyes for a while...
which gets me excited. His name is constantly thrown around on mlbtraderumors.com, and if you look at the Cardinals team page on SI.com, there is a link to an article about Reyes saying he is probably the most talked about pitcher amongst GM’s. The only problem is that there has been trade talk surrounding Reyes since the beginning of last year, and he is yet to be traded. The Cardinals seem to be asking for a lot, pointing towards his huge potential, while other GM’s are asking for a lot less, pointing towards his past performances.
"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it."- Rogers Hornsby
by redbirds8233 on May 4, 2008 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
As I said on Matthew Leach's blog:
Any chance this is part of the preparations for a trade? Rumors are that Atlanta, who are having some pitching issues, are interested in Reyes. I’m not clear on how sending Reyes down would make him more appetizing to Atlanta (quite the opposite, in fact, as it burns an option), but might added visibility for Parisi be a factor as well? They could be setting him up as a throw-in on the deal.(I figure I can quote that verbatim, seeing that I wrote it and all.)
Clearly “something” is up. Too early to tell what. I do wonder, though, if it’s more about Parisi and added visibility than about Reyes.
by StanTheManFan on May 4, 2008 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clearly TLR had him last on the Depth Chart
just ahead of LaRue.
So the smart thing would be to bring up a pitcher that TLR would use. Since Parsi is a GB pitcher TLR will use him.
Well the smart thing would be to not fall in love with only one type of pitcher…but I digress.
As much as I hate this. The best thing would be to trade Reyes. It’s unfair to him to keep him on a team that doesn’t want to use him.
by Harknights on May 4, 2008 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Clap, clap, calp. I have been saying that since they left spring training.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on May 4, 2008 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree
TLR and Dunc are responsible for his regression…or for better words, lack of development. Jocketty isnt in the clear with this either. Compare the way Wainwright was brought along vs. how Reyes was brought along. The Yo-Yo up and down didn’t do him any good. The open criticizm in the media was pretty classless. Yesterdays broadcast quoted Duncan as saying Reyes cannot pitch the way he wants to and get big league hitters out. He may be right, but he needs to tell Anthony that, not Ken Rosenthal. Was Reyes that much worse than the other pitchers we threw out there every 5 days last year. I wonder if it would have been different if we would have just put him out there and let him be. I challenge anyone to find any better games thrown by a Cards pitcher than the 1 hitter he lost to the White Sox, or Game 1 of the World Series. I don’t think that its coincidence that those were in situations where he was just given the ball and told to go pitch. And both high pressure situations. Its gonna be sad that we are gonna have Anthony Reyes and Danny Haren out there and if we could have done it right, those two plus Wainwright could possible be the best young 1-2-3 in the bigs.
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
by coachnick39 on May 4, 2008 6:47 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs
I am so mad about this! Mr. Mozeliak is a coward! This young man should not be held hostage here anymore.
Just do a damn deal. For anything that you’ll use. Dave and Tony have won, sir. Now you’re just playing games. It is just wrong, wrong, wrong! If you can’t get what you want, release him, waive him, trade him for some red Georgia clay, and don’t bring no more non-groundball pitchers to this door again! You think he’s not good, offer him to the Brewers. Right now. They sure could use him. Their farm is still stacked, with everything except pitchers.
Please. Let this young man get a new start. Don’t go getting all stubborn with the other GM’s. Mr. Mozeliak, you are a coward FOR not doing a deal.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on May 4, 2008 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tell me how you really feel
I keed, I keed :)
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on May 4, 2008 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I thought, Mr. Redbird, sir, I summed it up pretty well.
Really, they could write the book “How Not to Handle a Prospect” A. Reyes would be in every chapter….....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on May 4, 2008 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hehehe
I’m just playin’
I really hope we get some value out of him, whether it’s via trade or some miraculous turnaround of his abilities
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on May 4, 2008 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Let me amend that
Not a turnaround of his abilities but of his results
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on May 4, 2008 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Relax ... take a deep breath ...
This move may make sense on its own merits. Pineiro is reportedly having back trouble and may need a “shadow starter” ready for Monday. You definitely do NOT want a fly-ball pitcher like Reyes making that start at Planet Coors; much better a worm killer, which Parisi allegedly is. I saw Reyes make a start at Coors a couple of years ago, and from what happened to him there, I don’t think he was particularly looking forward to the prospect. Besides, what’s going to look better as his last start before a trade to Atlanta: an 8-inning gem at Memphis, or being used for batting practice at Denver?
by StanTheManFan on May 4, 2008 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I still thinks Mr. Mozeliak is being a coward.
He used him in a power play, and he lost. Now, because there is some quirk in the by laws, he qualifies for 4 option years when most players don’t. So instead of making a decision, he takes the cowards way out, putting him in Memphis for use where? The field management don’t want him in the rotation, what is the use of sending him down. Because they can? It’s starting to look like they enjoy this sick exercise. I am mad It’s time to let this young man start over-with a team that actually wants him.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on May 4, 2008 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
i've always rooted for Reyes
but I think it’s finally coming to an end. This isn’t a guy like Ankiel who had lightening stuff for an entire season before suffering injury and psychological problems. If he has a “comeback,” he’s not going to be a feel-good story or a comeback player of the year candidate. Reyes is a pitcher with a terrible ERA. He might pitch beautifully for 4 innings, then give up 5 runs in the 5th and completely negate his positive value. And that’s on a good day. In the last 3 years, i can remember less than a handful of fantastic starts.
He’s been given multiple second chances. He has had the chance to work it out in the minors (over and over again). He’s had the chance to start. He’s had the chance to pitch in relief. He was serviceable from time to time in all of those roles, but he lacks consistency and reliability.
I hope he gets traded (mostly because we might get someone in return) and i hope things work out for him. But its hard to look at, think or talk about Anthony Reyes without rolling your eyes anymore. Whether he’s in the majors or the minors doesn’t really matter, as long as he’s not in jeopardy of hurting this team anymore.
I feel sad writing this. I don’t give up on players or coaches or anyone easily. I truly wish him the best, but sometimes getting rid of a guy like this is what’s best for the team.
by effin fisk on May 4, 2008 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
In the last 3 years
what do you think the 3 best games thrown by a Cards pitcher are?? I mean, he has 2 fantastic starts… How many have we gotten from the rest of the group??
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
by coachnick39 on May 4, 2008 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Looper April 25th ‘07, August 28th ‘07, Sept 2nd
Lohse April 6th
There’s a few examples of great outings in a very limited search, without wasting too much time. I’m not digging back to ‘05 and the other pitchers not on staff because it’s borderline pointless as it is.
Hanging onto two starts while dismissing all of the blow ups is really biasing a point.
Yanno, Weaver had great outings in the postseason for us too yanno. Do you think we should have dumped a load of change on him? See how that turned out last year? Two starts doesn’t determine quality. Even if they were great
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on May 4, 2008 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don'tr care about your damn stats. Fine they are better pitchers.
So why won’t they trade him. You say yourself he isn’t worth anything. Why would you care what you get? Mr. Mozeliak just needs to trade him, simple as that. He’’s worth nothing to this organization except as a trade chip. Cash it in…...
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on May 4, 2008 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't be calling him a coward just yet
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 4, 2008 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I will, and did.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on May 4, 2008 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I've been impressed by him so far
I was worried that Jocketty’s departure meant bad things for the team. but so far, can’t say it’s been bad
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 4, 2008 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
+1
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on May 4, 2008 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I dont think I wont a guy
Playing for me if sending him up and down ruins him.
Then again, I don’t think that had anything to do with Reyes.
by Evilfrog on May 4, 2008 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Everytime he has been sent down he has performed well. He never phoned it in. He never spoke publicly about it.
Yeah. It’s a good idea to send someone back and forth for four years running. It’s pretty clear they are never going to want him on this team.
Yeah, Mr. Reyes should just smile and say thank you dear master. He probably won’t say anything. He’ll get ready to pitch his next turn. And they’ll refer to him as “nobody” at Memphis, just like they did last year.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on May 4, 2008 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
let's just say
he’ll probably be better off on a different team
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 4, 2008 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
So why won't they just do a deal?
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on May 4, 2008 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
B/c Reyes has options
and they optioned to send him down. It’s about doing what is best for the org, not what is best for Reyes.
Well who the hell can see forever?
by Alxfritz on May 4, 2008 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
I do not see this as best for the organization. He is viewed to be of most help as a trade chip.
Teams have expressed interest all through the winter, spring, and since the season started. Making a deal and getting everyone started in their new place IS what’s best for the orginization IMO.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on May 4, 2008 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Why trade an asset
when the only real justification is to trade him for his own good? I’d argue that they’d be better off DL-ing Springer or retro DL-ing Pinerio rather than sending Reyes down, but the fact of the matter is Reyes is - not to sound to crass, but - expendable. He’s just the odd man out here , same as Thompson was a few weeks ago. He’ll be down in Memphis for a few weeks then back up here, probably. Just like last year.
Well who the hell can see forever?
by Alxfritz on May 4, 2008 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
try not to be rational Fritz
it throws off this whole Reyes post
"He was trying to hit a three run homer with the bases empty. To my knowledge, no one in the history of the game has ever done that. But it could happen someday. You never know in this world of baseball." The Moonman
by mattyfrommo on May 4, 2008 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
You do read the papers don't you? They have said they were trading him
all through the winter, they invited scouts to spring training, and scouts followed them on their road trip. So now he’s too valuable to trade AND by the way, we are sending him to Memphis? Oh, because we can. They must be having a lot a fun at his expense….that’s a great way to handle a valuable asset. Oh, well, he’s just the odd man out, sorry,
Look, the bottom line is they are not committed to using him. It’s time to cash in the trade chip…....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on May 4, 2008 11:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it just makes sense?
1.) Its known that Pin’s back is acting up. Skipping a start will give him a day relief.
2.) Pushing all of the starts back one day allows Adam to pitch the first game against the Brew this up coming weekend instead of the last game of the Rockies series. Not a bad thing.
3.) If this is more permanent then it gives an opening to Mulder sliding back, though I think it’s a temp fix.
4.) Reyes just pitched two innings yesterday, just over a week ago everyone was clamoring for the idea of using Memphis to keep the staff fresh, now we have a guy who one could say, deserves his own chance gets in. Is he here to stay? Most likely not, but what on earth would make anyone think that Reyes would come off and start in Colorado of all places when he’s been in the pen for a month, and just pitched.
Fanboyism is one thing, but damn. Good luck Parisi should you get the start.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on May 4, 2008 7:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

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