To contend or to contend for longer?
I'm writing this a little ahead of time because I'm in the process of moving this weekend so I won't have the luxury of waiting until after the game on Thursday night. If something tremendous -- positive or negative -- happened in last night's game, feel free to talk about it; it's not a lack of interest on my part, it's the impingement of the real world on my hobbies.
At the beginning of the season, not many people truly believed the Cardinals would be contenders in the NL Central. PECOTA had the Cardinals coming in a distant 4th in the division with a negative run differential. They're currently a game back of Chicago with the 5th best run differential in the NL. I'm curious what kind of off-the-record conversations the front office had for expectations -- whether they really truly believed (or their metrics/analysis told them) that they were going to contend. Apparently the team thought that they were close enough to contending that they didn't need a full blown rebuilding process and everyone toed the line accordingly during the offseason and Spring Training. I would have defended them if they had gone into a rebuilding process; instead, they really are contending and regardless of whether or not they truly expected to before the season began, now would be a good time to decided if contention is enough or if they're really committed to winning the Central.
I'd be disingenuous if I claimed that I've been mulling over this idea that I'm about to present for a while. I haven't. A commenter (mikedallas45) asked a question in Nate Silver's chat over at BP the other day about Brian Roberts. Nate responded that the upgrade could be sizable given the players that the Cardinals are currently using at second base. I've made no secret of my distaste for the Cardinals primary second baseman (Aaron Miles, Adam Kennedy) in terms of what they provide on the field for the team. Subjective opinions aside, if the Cardinals are going to upgrade the team, 2nd base is the logical place to do it and Brian Roberts would seem to be a prime target. I can't recall a time since Larry Walker that the Cardinals made a move in season that I would perceive to have as much impact as a potential Brian Roberts trade -- but lets run the numbers to find out.
In a weekend when I wasn't moving, I'd be breaking out my spreadsheets to run wOBAs and find the averages for the league and calculating runs above average per plate appearance. Since I don't live in that world though, I'm going to use VORP, which is handy in that the math is done for me, and while I prefer wOBA, the differences shouldn't prevent us from getting an estimate of about +/- .5 wins. Let's assume that the acquisition of a second baseman would suddenly bring the manager and front office to their collective senses and we'd no longer need 4 middle infielders on the roster -- in fact, let's say they do away with Aaron Miles and Adam Kennedy. I know I'm wishcasting here but what the hell.
Aaron Miles has been serviceable as a hitter this season. I still don't like his skillset -- and once that BABIP regresses about 30 points, he's going to be about replacement level. That said, he's contributed 2.7 runs per VORP over 113 ABs. Extrapolate over the season and he's probably worth about 1 win with the bat assuming he maintains that. That would easily be the best VORP he's posted but benefit of the doubt and all. Adam Kennedy on the other hand has been his exact inverse. He's been worth -2.5 runs over 140 ABs. Together, they're a wash.
Defensively, Aaron Miles is about a -10 fielder (over a full season) according to the defensive metrics -- I'm looking at UZR, RZR and SFR to get an estimate. Kennedy was beloved by the defensive metrics prior to 2006 with his defense being worth around a win all by itself. 2006 saw him tank across the board and 2007 was only marginally better. RZR likes him so far this season but I'm more inclined to go with the previous two years worth of data. He just had knee surgery and I just don't see his defense as a strong selling point anymore. We'll split the difference and call him a neutral fielder. What I'm getting at in these last two paragraphs is that Miles and Kennedy at second represent the essence of replacement level. You should be able to go out and find some player in the minors and approximate their value on the field. In fact, the Cardinals have such a player named Brendan Ryan but a 3-year contract and some unknown leverage have kept Kennedy and Miles on the team.
To preface the discussion of Brian Roberts, I want to say that I'm leery of 2nd baseman once they hit 30 ; it's a steep decline, on balance, after that age. PECOTA, prior to the season, expected him to maintain his value reasonably well through age 34. He's hitting a touch under his preseason prediction at the moment. PECOTA pegged him at .285/.366/.440 prior to the season and he's hitting .271/.357/.427 thus far. In 221 ABs, he's produced 12.5 runs. He's about 30 run above replacement level offensively. The defensive metrics are a bit mixed -- some like him as a bit above average others as a neutral fielder.
If you take a look at the Cardinals VORP data thus far this season, Pujols and Ludwick are carrying the offense with Ankiel making a solid contribution. Outside of those three players, there's no other standout offensive player. The rest of the team is basically playing slightly above average offensively with no one on the roster being a tremendous dead weight. Brian Roberts would go a long way to solving that problem. He'd become the Cardinals 3rd or 4th best hitter and an ideal leadoff man given his OBP and speed on the base paths. (I'm not totally discounting the value of his running skills but they pale in comparison to his offense. He might be worth 2-3 runs on the base paths. I'd rather just be conservative and assume he's neutral.)
It's hard to navigate the tumultuous waters of dealing with the Orioles and Peter Angelos but needless to say, a nice package of prospects would be needed. They wouldn't be interested in Bryan Anderson but a stab in the dark would be something resembling Jaime Garcia/Anthony Reyes, Chris Duncan/Joe Mather and Jason Motte/Chris Perez. It's a lesser package than what they got for Erik Bedard but I'd guess that the Orioles would target those players (after being told that Colby Rasmus was unavailable). It's certainly debatable whether those prospects are worth more than Roberts over the next 5 years but Roberts almost certainly adds more marginal value to the team than losing those players/prospects would cost in 2008 alone.
Regardless of the fine details, Roberts would represent a significant upgrade on the order of 3-4 wins depending on how optimistic you're feeling. Glancing at the standings, the teams relegated to the cellar currently don't have players that would be worth pursuing. (If the Athletics fall out of the race, Mark Ellis is another name that would be interesting coming in around 2 wins above replacement. That could take time though where the Orioles are more like to be sellers now.) Baltimore is the best target even if it's traditionally a difficult trading partner. The point is that there's no time like the present to upgrade the team. There's no great -- heck, there's not even a good -- internal solution to the middle infield and the Cardinals have the capacity to really improve the team to keep pace with the Cubs. In the end, it's less a question of if the Cardinals will contend and more one of for how long.
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+1
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
by sportsman on
May 30, 2008 8:54 PM EDT
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I like Brian Roberts......
Didn’t the Cardinals try to pry Miguel Tejada away from Baltimore? I just wonder if we couldn’t put together a package for Tejada, how would we put one together for Roberts? The Cubs also have wanted him—if he is available, won’t they be back in on him too?
I just think he’s one of these guys who is “available” wink, wink, nod, just to keep the other teams calling. He will be moved only for an extreme fleece trade-which makes me think they are not dealing him at all. Better to try to get Mark Ellis. At least Mr. Beane will make a trade if you give him what he wants….....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on May 30, 2008 8:18 AM EDT 0 recs
what beane wants
like kiko calero, daric barton, and dan haren.
sigh.
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on
May 30, 2008 8:49 AM EDT
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can you imgane how good the team would be now
with Tejada? That wouldn’t even be fair.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on
May 30, 2008 8:58 AM EDT
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It's been good for the Astros.......definitely filled a big need for them.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on
May 30, 2008 11:51 AM EDT
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But Tejada
is in potentially as much trouble as Bonds is with this federal steroids/perjury investigation. Add to the fact he’s three years older than originally thought, and the short term success Houston is getting with Tejada won’t be nearly as impressive two or three years from now when Miguel is actually 38, getting a big contract that is crippling the team’s ability to make any other moves, and he might not even be playing because he could be in jail or on trial, or under suspension.
Some of the best moves clubs make are the players they don’t sign, and I think in the long run this will prove to be true with Tejada.
"Is this Heaven?"
"No, it;s Iowa."
"I could've sworn it was Heaven."
by MilCardFan on
May 30, 2008 5:05 PM EDT
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We just won a series in 2006
I’m not interested in sacrificing the future for the present at this point in time.
If we can do it by giving up Reyes/Duncan/Motte, I might consider it. but really only ‘cause I don’t know anything about Motte.
by sdrone on May 30, 2008 8:28 AM EDT 0 recs
I was thinking the same..
no way I’m willing to part with Garcia and Perez….I feel these guys could both be significant contributors either this or next season. However, Reyes, Duncan/Mather, and Motte would be worth considering (I’d rather try Mather…though Duncan is struggling he’s still more proven, and shoud be able to increase his trade value).
by cardzfanbub on
May 30, 2008 8:36 AM EDT
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Motte
Think of Perez type heat, but straight fastball and no true secondary pitch. He is a former catcher turned pitcher that can throw real hard, but right now he is still a “thrower” not a pitcher, probably will become a great setup man, secondary closer but right now he hasn’t matured enough for it.
by StLHugo on
May 30, 2008 8:44 AM EDT
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Reyes/Duncan/Motte
If they would take that for Roberts, shouldn’t we jump at the chance?
Let me add that I have been a staunch advocate for both Reyes and Duncan on this site for quite a while, but Duncan is not that young, Reyes appears to be destined to live out his big league career in a jersey without the birds-on-bat gracing its front (so why not an AL jersey), and Motte, as StLHugo has done well in describing, is a pretty rough hurler.
by bgh on
May 30, 2008 10:33 AM EDT
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this is one of baseballs top franchises of all times, not the royals
The “sacrifice the future” ad nausea is just silly. The cards have the luxury of dumping a prospect if it will immediately give them a real shot at the WS. The cards are perennial contenders, not a 5 year plan team like Florida. Just because they won the WS in 06 doesn’t mean you’re automatically on a 5 year plan until 2011. Just ask the cubs and their 06 and 08 wins…the ones from the 1900s.
With that said, not a fucking chance I’d ship perez unless it’s for uggla :D
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on
May 30, 2008 9:05 AM EDT
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Disagree
More important than our history is our payroll. Do we have the money to go after high-priced free agents? Even though the landscape of the game is shifting away from free agency, it’s still the teams with the money that are gonna be contenders year in and year out (for the most part). So while we aren’t the Royals, we also aren’t the Yankees, Red Sox, Mets, Cubs, Angels, etc. Don’t forget the 90s or the 70s, either. We were traditional then and went through some bad baseball.
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on
May 30, 2008 12:14 PM EDT
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Re: high-priced free agents
I am loathe to agree with anything Colin Cowherd says(that’s a subject for another day and website), but he said something a few days ago that I’ve been yelling from the mountaintops for a couple of years now: many of the so-called high-priced FA just don’t want to play in St. Louis. I have no idea why this is the case. Maybe it’s the team’s policy of slotting salaries for certain positions and past refusal to go beyond a certain number of years on contracts, or it’s La Russa, or the weather, or…
If you don’t believe me, name the last big-name FA this team signed; and I’m not talking about guys like Edmonds, Carpenter or Rolen, who were already with the team.
If everything seems to be going well, you have obviously overlooked something.
by cardsrul on
May 30, 2008 4:56 PM EDT
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Do we really pursue them that strongly?
We have gotten plenty of high-caliber players in, just not through free agency. The team (any team) usually gets ripped off through free-agency anyway. I don’t think this is something you should be too concerned about. I’m at work, so I can’t do the research, but let’s look at the record of teams that go out and make the big-name free agent signings. I don’t even think it’s a strategy that works well. You end up taking too much of your resources for one player.
"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."
by BigMOman on
May 30, 2008 5:04 PM EDT
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Edmond and Rolen were trades
Carp was a reclamation project
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on
May 30, 2008 5:18 PM EDT
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He means
after their contracts ran out we resigned them.
by Phizzle on
May 30, 2008 7:20 PM EDT
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I thought we signed them before their contracts ran out?
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on
May 30, 2008 7:49 PM EDT
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Let's also remember
what a huge pain Peter Angelos is to deal with. The O’s have had trade discussions about Roberts before, and he has killed the deal each time. I agree he would be a perfect fit here, but if it gets much beyond Reyes/Duncan and a pitching prospect (other than Garcia or Perez), I’m not sure it’s worth it.
Perhaps a deal for a lesser name like Josh Barfield of the Indians? That would be less costly in terms of talent. Or maybe Jed Lowrie from the Bosox?
Nice catch Hayes, don't ever fu**in do it again - Lou Brown
by cardsfanindenver on
May 30, 2008 9:38 AM EDT
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So AZ, you see no internal replacement for
2B? Ryan? Hoff? I liked the Wed. DP combo of BRyan/Iz2. I’d also be willing to give Hoff a shot. If one of the OF goes to fall instructional ball to learn to play 2B, I’d be in favor too. I just don’t see trading prospects for Roberts.
by gocards62 on May 30, 2008 8:43 AM EDT 0 recs
short term replacement? no, i don't.
Hoffpauir hasn’t shown the power he had in springfield last year and it’s hurting him. pitchers are beating him on the outside part of the plate and then groving fastballs and he can’t turn on them. In retrospect, I may have been too bullish on the power spike in Springfield as a sustainable skill. Brendan Ryan is probably a +1 player with the bat and glove but if he’s your primary utility guy and Brian Roberts is starting at second I think that’s pretty good arrangement.
This converting outfielders to 2nd baseman thing is a total pipe dream that got started somewhere on the internet. It’s not going to happen. Short of Kelly Johnson and Bill Hall, I can’t think of anyone who made the conversion in recent years. The Cardinals haven’t shown the propensity to try this out at any point in the minor leagues—why the heck would they try it with MLB players.
by azruavatar on
May 30, 2008 9:34 AM EDT
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And Hall
started his MLB career as a SS, before being moved to the outfield…
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on
May 30, 2008 11:04 AM EDT
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as a fan of both teams
i don’t think this trade will benefit either team, really. first off, trading roberts would open a gaping hole at 2B for the o’s – behind b-rob, the rest of their middle infield (freddie bynum, luis hernandez, brandon fahey) is even worse than ours, and none of those guys are young enough to be considered a prospect anymore. additionally, duncan adds very little to the o’s. with the OF set in 2009 (markakis, jones, scott) and huff signed through 2009, duncan would have to fight hard for playing time. while i do think he’s a better player than huff, i have a hard time seeing him immediately slotting ahead of someone with a better career. reyes as a reclamation project, fine. motte, garcia, and perez i know very little about, but if the way they’re talked about on this site is any indication they’re probably worth too much to be traded. so perhaps if we threw a lot of these young pitchers at them we could get roberts, but i don’t see that being worth it in the long run.
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on May 30, 2008 8:46 AM EDT 0 recs
Duncan doesn't have to play OF
He could take 1B or DH for the O’s
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
by Mr Redbird on
May 30, 2008 12:17 PM EDT
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yes, i forgot about 1B
and millar. but DH is taken up by huff (unless he moves to 1B), who is signed thru ‘09.
however, the orioles are apparently going to make a big push to sign teixera this winter because he’s a local boy from annapolis (or somewhere near there). i think they’d be better off acquiring duncan in a trade, but that’s not the way that organization works, which is why they’re one of the worst in baseball.
for the record, i also think we’d need to give up a MI prospect as well to fill their hole in that area.
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on
May 30, 2008 1:57 PM EDT
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Let's keep in mind that the O's
idea of a first baseman is 36-y-o Kevin Millar. No way Dunc couldn’t outhit him.
I’m an O’s fan as well, and I can’t see them giving up Roberts for anything less than a haul, and even then it’ll be like pulling teeth. I’ve been on the Roberts bandwagon for a long time, but I can’t see getting him for a reasonable price.
by MdRedbirdFreak on
May 30, 2008 1:11 PM EDT
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Another issue: how long to we stay w/Santa at 3B?
“If you take a look at the Cardinals VORP data thus far this season, Pujols and Ludwick are carrying the offense with Ankiel making a solid contribution. Outside of those three players, there’s no other standout offensive player. “
Totally agree. No offensive production from 3B is killing us.
by gocards62 on May 30, 2008 8:46 AM EDT 0 recs
What's the other option?
Because from where I sti, there really is none.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on
May 30, 2008 8:54 AM EDT
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good thing you're not a GM then (jk)
I’m only half kidding ;) But my point is that is the job of a good GM, finding someone and making it happen. Did you ever think Jocketty was going to pull superstars like Walker or McGwire out of his ass? I’d like to think Mo doesn’t get his info from mlbtraderumors.com.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on
May 30, 2008 9:17 AM EDT
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I do understand, but there are waaaaaay more glaring holes on the team right now
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on
May 30, 2008 9:18 AM EDT
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You do know
that Glaus is under contract for next year as well, as he was required to pick up next year’s player option as a condition of the trade. We’re going to have to sink or swim w/ Glaus at 3rd, unless you’d like to move him to 1st.
by houstoncardinal on
May 30, 2008 10:02 AM EDT
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Er...
Walker and McGwire were long rumored to be dealt, as their contracts were about to be up. That was what Walt was a master of, trading for players who were about to be free agents, then giving them long deals (most of the time).
Start Ludwick
by DiscoJer on
May 30, 2008 3:25 PM EDT
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Good 'ol Rolen
What do you know? Looks like he’s putting it together in Toronto:
avg. .293
obp .376
slg .466
2 hr
15 xbh in 32 games.
Glaus, by comparison, is:
avg. .261
obp .370
slg .386
2 hr
18 xbh in 54 games
Rolen’s got him beat in every category. Mind you, I’m not saying I regret trading him. It’s just nice to see him performing.
I just wish Glaus would perform up to Rolen’s level. Or shucks, even up to his careers levels.
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on
May 30, 2008 11:40 AM EDT
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Well, I'll say it. I regret trading him.
I don’t care what Mr. LaRussa says about him, I like Scotty, and I always will like Scotty. The big lug also has 3 stolen bases. For a dude that isn’t fast, he sure knows how to run the bases. I hope he’s put his injuries behind him…....
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on
May 30, 2008 11:43 AM EDT
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Ha! What are you implying? You think it's not possible that a few of us out here actually liked Mr. Rolen and were sorry to see him go?
Ridgesee is an old guy; we old guys and gals have to stick together. You kids with the computers rule the world…...we take what we can take…...
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on
May 30, 2008 3:49 PM EDT
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I'll say it, too
I was pissed when Tony was resigned because I knew it would cost us our all-star 3rd baseman.
If the choice was Tony or Scotty, I’d have chosen Scotty and a manager that doesn’t air clubhouse dirty laundry via the press on a regular basis.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on
May 30, 2008 4:37 PM EDT
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IT was wose that than that
It was
Tony, miles, skip, Pinero, Looper (starter), Springer
vs
Rolen, Ryan, Ludwick, Reyes, Worell, ...
A lot of players get the crap treatment from TLR. We are also forced to sign less talented players like Pinero and Miles because of his need for vetrans.
by DriverZn on
May 30, 2008 4:48 PM EDT
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Too early to tell......
With Rolen’s bad shoulder he may get fatigured as 32 games is not that many…... Once the shoulder starts to get a bit sore he will once again have trouble catching up to high average fastballs…
I have seen him play this year but not enough to notice how well he is handling stuff above his belt.
I have actually been surprised by Glaus minus his lack of power. I like the way Glaus plays.
I liked Scott a lot when he was here but I know it was time to move on.
by ICbirdfan on
May 30, 2008 12:22 PM EDT
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zing
I guess that was one of the main reasons we traded him, yeah?
"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."
by BigMOman on
May 30, 2008 1:36 PM EDT
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No, actually, it wasn't
We traded him because Tony burned the bridge and treated him like shit. With Tony’s repeated, insulting public bashings (the public doghouse seems to be a running theme for him these past few years, n’est-ce pas?), he poisoned the well and made it pretty much impossible for Scott to remain here. Once DeWitt stepped in and resigned Tony before we even had a GM picked, anyone with a brain new Scott had to be dealt.
And the broken finger from ST was a freak accident. It had nothing to do with his (apparently fully repaired) shoulder. It’s not like Scott pulled a JD Drew and sprained an eyelash or something.
It’s still too early in the season to tell how “bad” the exchange was, but Scott looks fully recovered and fully productive, whereas Glaus looks like a weaker, less-useful-across-the-board version of Rolen. But maybe Glaus can actually start producing at some point this season and help mitigate that deficit.
Personally, I’d rather have a new manager and our previous 3rd baseman.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on
May 30, 2008 4:34 PM EDT
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Tony has cost us a lot of players
Rolen
Haren (tony / DeWitt pushed this one)
Thompson (arguably the abusive usage last year ruined the guy)
Then there is the endless parade of gritty but untalented players taking time away from more derserving ones.
Miles, Skippy, So
by DriverZn on
May 30, 2008 4:41 PM EDT
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I don't agree
Rolen caused the problem….
Remember the 2006 play-offs when he couldn’t hit shit and TLR used Spezio who was hitting well and Rolen cried about it
by ICbirdfan on
May 30, 2008 5:16 PM EDT
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rolen feuded with bowa in philly and i’ve read some pretty damning bad-attitude quotes from him during that era. i wasn’t there to personally witness the important conversations (or lack thereof) he had with either bowa or larussa, but i think there’s enough of an audit trail that rolen shouldn’t be eliminated as a suspect.
by astrostl on
May 30, 2008 5:02 PM EDT
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I agree.
And I say that as someone who loved Scott and was sorry he left. But I don’t think he was an innocent victim in the situation.
by cardsgirl95 on
May 30, 2008 5:28 PM EDT
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It was definitely a two-way street
I never said Rolen wasn’t at least partially culpable. Personally, I think Tony’s wholly unprofessional treatment of Rolen merited some disagreement, but that wasn’t the point.
My point was that as soon as LaRussa was re-signed by DeWitt, the Rolen trade was inevitable. It had almost nothing to do with the shoulder, and had almost everything to do with Tony’s communication issues. Which is very unfortunate, since it looks like Rolen has returned to form (although he may yet fade like he did in 2006, my sense is that he’s recovered).
I’m of the opinion that sweeping roster decisions should not be dictated by your field manager’s signing, but that’s what you get with Tony.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on
May 30, 2008 5:31 PM EDT
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glaus
yeah he’s been a slight disappointment, but when you take into account the (apparent) clubhouse harmony, the surprisingly not crappy defense, the .370 OBP, and the “clutch” stats it doesn’t look quite so bad. still hoping some of troy’s balls make it over the wall as the weather heats up…
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on
May 30, 2008 8:55 AM EDT
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Anyone else think our Glaus
is the juice-less version? It’s very suspicious that a guy who once hit 47 has only 2 on May 30. Right now he should bat #2, and leave the 3,4, and 5 spots to a combo of Albert, Lud, and Ank. He could definitely stand to see better pitches in front of AP.
by vinniefromjersey on
May 30, 2008 9:06 AM EDT
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one of a loooong list
the majors are full of players whose stunning power a few years ago melted away when the threat of real steroid testing showed up. and i wonder how many terrific seasons in contract walk years came from PED.
batting glaus second would seem to be a good way to use his OBP, and LaRussa did say he likes some “damage” from the second spot in the order.
by madridbend on
May 30, 2008 10:44 AM EDT
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No, I think its the version that doesn't play in Toronto....
Toronto is a RH hitters park. Busch is not.
Start Ludwick
by DiscoJer on
May 30, 2008 3:25 PM EDT
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How freaking odd.....
Rolen also has 2 home runs and an OBP in the .370’s.
by sdrone on
May 30, 2008 9:17 AM EDT
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but he missed a month
and is slugging 100 points higher than troy.
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on
May 30, 2008 10:59 AM EDT
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and is slugging 100 points higher than troy.
glaus isolated power: .386 (SLG) – .261 (BA) = .125
rolen isolated power: .466 (SLG) – .293 (BA) = .173
“slugging” is usually synonymous with “power”, but it still measures singles. if two players had equal on-base percentages and hit the ball equally hard, the one with the higher batting average would also have a higher slugging percentage.
in this case rolen is hitting the ball harder, but the ISO difference is less stark than SLG.
by astrostl on
May 30, 2008 12:28 PM EDT
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like I said too early to tell..........
Rolen’s shoulder has only been forced to play 32 games so far which is 1/5 of the season. I don’t know how his shoulder will hold up to a full season, I could see it getting fatigued and all of a sudden he can’t catch up to 89 MPH fastball’s above his belt.
I think Rolen had to be dealt for various reasons and the top one was that you just could not count on his shoulder holding up.
I like him a lot and enjoyed his style of play while in STL. I still watch him when I can.
by ICbirdfan on
May 30, 2008 12:52 PM EDT
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+1
I don’t have time to look up the numbers but I remember him coming out and pounding the ball early last season before his numbers fell off a cliff.
by birdo rojo on
May 30, 2008 1:03 PM EDT
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with you on ISO, astro
But the reason I’m still confident Glaus will perform better is that his HR/FB rate is about 3% and I can’t imagine that continuing. I just don’t think he suddenly turned into Mark Grace on us.
by random on
May 30, 2008 1:34 PM EDT
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i hope you are right
but didn’t both his home runs just barely scrape over the wall? He is a couple of average breezes away from being homerless. He just seems to have warning track power at this point in his career.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on
May 31, 2008 1:05 AM EDT
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actually, given his juiceless state
and where they were with Rolen, anything other than a greek tragedy at 3B constitutes a success :D
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on
May 30, 2008 9:25 AM EDT
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careful
his name is troy, need i remind you. you might have just jinxed the whole team. i’ll bet his middle name is agamemnon or something. and i apologize for g®eeking up the place…
by mattybobo on
May 30, 2008 11:39 AM EDT
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ah ha!
edward III, a history play (possibly) by shakespeare. way better than a greek tragedy. edward overcomes impossible odds and triumphs over the french.
the french are of course a reasonable equivalent to the cubs, since they’re easy to make fun of, they complain a lot, and they haven’t really won anything in the last century or so. look for santa to have a huge moment against the small bears sometime this year.
by mattybobo on
May 30, 2008 2:51 PM EDT
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A pinch runner! My kingdom for a pinch runner!
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on
May 30, 2008 3:04 PM EDT
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um,
I could care less, but that would be Richard, not Edward . . . .
So says, Titus Pullo (formerly The Dude)
by Titus Pullo on
May 30, 2008 4:42 PM EDT
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dammit, you're right
I saw the III and Shakespeare, and ran with it
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on
May 30, 2008 4:46 PM EDT
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"ran" with it
You’re killing me. Which I guess is appropriate for either.
by random on
May 30, 2008 4:51 PM EDT
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