dump duncan?
bernie argues that the cards should send duncan to memphis. reading between the lines, i surmise that the increasingly loud jeers are weighing on duncan (way to go Best Fans); it also seems clear that he’s either not 100 pct healthy or hasn’t shaken off the bad habits he got into while trying to play through last year’s injury. the cardinals have faced a lot of left-handed pitching this month, and i wondered if perhaps duncan’s current slump (he’s got a .637 ops in may) might be nothing more than overexposure to left-handed pitching. turns out that isn’t the case; per the splits section of david pinto’s Day by Day Database, duncan has only taken 6 plate appearances against lefties this month (with 1 hit). against right-handers, he’s hitting just .216 / .298 / .353 in 51 at-bats during may.
even so, it’s only 51 at-bats; in duncan’s 54 april at-bats against right-handed pitching, he hit .333 / .464 / .500. and taking the season as a whole, he’s got an .817 ops against right-handers. joe mather has had a hot month at memphis and he’s got some potential, but i wouldn’t bet on him to come right up and post an ops much (if any) better than .817.
i’ll grant that mather might be a better player than chris duncan right at this moment, because right at this moment duncan doesn’t look like an .800 ops hitter. he has taken some awful at-bats the last couple of weeks, chasing bad pitches and failing to make consistent contact (11 whiffs in his last 36 at-bats dating back to may 14). but i think a lot of people are overreacting to the slump. he came into the month with an .839 ops for the season and an ops of roughly .870 for his career; a few bad weeks and half the fan base is ready to dump the guy. (and they chide la russa for his impatience . . . .) duncan is a homegrown, cost-controlled, productive player in his 20s --- exactly the type of commodity this organization needs. bernie argues that a trip to memphis is in duncan’s (and the franchise’s) best interest --- the best way to preserve / restore his value. it’s worth noting that duncan is 0 for 14 coming off the bench this year; in his starts, he’s got a .282 / .389 / .436 line in 2008 --- an .826 ops. so it may be that the run of left-handed pitching, combined w/ the competition for at-bats w/ ludwick ankiel and schumaker, has depressed duncan’s line; maybe the lack of playing time has hurt him. and if that’s the case, maybe he would benefit from a month’s worth of regular abs in triple A, and come back with his swing and batting eye rehabilitated.
if that’s the rationale, then i can see the sense in sending duncan down. but as a short-term gambit, i don’t see any upside in exchanging duncan for mather. st louis outfielders already have the second-best aggregate ops in baseball, .868; the average nl outfield has an ops of .778. compare that production to st louis outfields of recent vintage:
| stl of | nl of | ops+ | |
|---|---|---|---|
| 2008 | .868 | .778 | 112 |
| 2007 | .771 | .794 | 97 |
| 2006 | .771 | .795 | 97 |
| 2005 | .828 | .796 | 104 |
| 2004 | .853 | .811 | 105 |
| 2003 | .891 | .814 | 109 |
the cardinals haven’t had an outfield this productive since albert pujols was an outfielder. not even the 2004-05 sanders-edmonds-walker outfields were as potent, in the aggregate, as the current crop. adding joe mather to the mix isn’t going to make this a higher-scoring team; the cardinals don’t need an upgrade in the outfield. they need an infielder who can add a little sock.
which brings us to troy glaus, who has escaped the abuse heaped on duncan despite a nearly identical batting line (.760 ops for glaus, vs .743 for duncan). he has stopped piling up the doubles --- only 3 this month, vs 12 in april; during may glaus has just 5 extra-base hits (vs 4 for duncan) and is slugging .390 on the season. glaus’s home/road split is no longer as glaring as it was; he’s hitting much better at home but much worse on the road. i don’t know what to make of it. glaus’s batted-ball patterns remain right in line with his career averages, and his babip is normal; if he’s doing anything differently from previous years, it’s not apparent. the only number that’s off is his strikeout rate, which is abnormally low (18 percent this year, vs 26 percent in his career); has he cut down on his swing? a while back i expressed confidence that glaus would eventually progress to the mean ; it hasn’t happened so far. i got no answers; i am open to your thoughts.
but i'm not open to the joe-mather-as-3b argument that occasionally surfaces. mather has played 3b just 24 times as a professional --- all of those games were in A ball. his fielding percentage in those 24 games was .917. he last played 3b in 2005, and that was for 2 games. can't play the position, period.
other items:
- the astros apparently didn’t get the memo that you don’t mess around w/ breaking pitches against brian barton, you just blow fastballs past him. all 3 of barton’s hits the last couple of nights came against off-speed stuff --- the homer on tuesday and the single vs valverde on wednesday both came against sliders, and the single against wandy last night came against what looked like a changeup; 79 mph on the gun. i’m glad barton picked up a few hits; i was worried he was gonna get buried.
- don’t underestimate the potential significance of joel pineiro’s health problems. the cardinals are contending for only one reason --- consistent starting pitching. if the rotation starts to get patchworky, they’re likely to fall off the pace. any / all of pineiro, looper, and lohse are capable of going south in a hurry . . . . .
- but there may be help at triple A. mitch boggs threw a complete game yesterday to run his record to 5-1, 3.17. he has yielded just 3 homers in 65.1 innings and has a 2:1 gb/fb ratio. there’s also a guy down there named reyes with a 2.04 era . . . . as a team, memphis ranks 4th in the pcl with a 4.14 era. it’s a pitcher’s park, though . . . . .
- am i the only one who hates the 1st-inning intentional walk? the cards did it tuesday night, with an "unintentional" walk to lance berkman; the ’stros did it last night vs pujols. seems like you’re just begging to fall way behind when you hand out free baserunners in the first inning, and both teams did just that . . . .
0 recs |
370
comments
Read Related
Comments
You make a good point about Santa
LB, can Mather back up Glaus?or is there another option (Freese?) at Memphis?
I hope TLR will stay with the Ryan/Iz2 (RH) combo. Check out Bernie’s stats on the Cards’ record when Ryan gets 4ABs!
Finally give a shout out to Yadi’s improved offense this year. Maybe not much power but improved contact and some clutch RBIs.
by gocards62 on May 29, 2008 9:31 AM EDT 0 recs
re: Duncan
We both noted the pattern of busting him inside. For his career prior to this season we’re talking about a guy who posted a .952 in 314 ABs in 2006, a .834 OPS in 435 ABs in 2006. Most, if not all, of the 2007 dropoff was attributed to the hernia. But what if we’re also missing the league adjusting to him as well maked by the injury.
Remember that this is a guy who posted over a .850 OPS in the minors just once in 6 years (some partial). We we’re all shocked when he overperformed his minor league numbers (remember the cries of nepotism)—maybe this is the realization that his minor league numbers were more representative than his 850 MLB at bats (where he’s been protected from righties and put in situations to succeed).
I was one of the people who wanted him playing full-time in 2006 to see if he was capable of hitting lefties and if his true talent level was really that good. Something’s off now—whether it’s a simple slump or something more troubling remains to be seen, imo.
by azruavatar on May 29, 2008 9:34 AM EDT 0 recs
i'd agree, it remains to be seen
whether this is just a slump or something more. we’re still talking about a very small sample size. and we’re also not talking about a complete collapse of his game - he still hits right-handers with reasonable success.
i think the jury is out. he looks lost out there right now, but i’ve seen ankiel look just as lost — indeed, he went through exactly the same thing earlier this year, a 52-ab stretch with a .599 ops (april 10 through april 27). he played his way out of it; maybe duncan will too.
by lboros on
May 29, 2008 10:09 AM EDT
up
0 recs
Yeah but Ankiel was allowed to play out of his funk........
Good players will perform if given enough opportunity…...I think it will be hard for Dunc to get on a role if he can not play consistently.
by ICbirdfan on
May 29, 2008 10:45 AM EDT
up
0 recs
as far as duncan's minor-league record
mather’s was even less distinguished than duncan’s until last season. through 2006, his best OPS at any level was .817 —in 200 at-bats at class A+. last year he tore up double A for half a season (while duncan was simultaneously tearing up big-league pitching) and then mather scuffled to a .772 OPS in the 2d half against AAA pitching while duncan was scuffling (injured) against big-leaguers. mather was hurt for most of april, and duncan was hitting pretty well that month anyway. so the entire case that mather is a better hitter than duncan is based on this month -- may 2008. it seems like a very short-term-oriented argument.
by lboros on
May 29, 2008 12:17 PM EDT
up
0 recs
Wow
You got everyone going today lboros. Over 100 comments before noon central time, I’m having trouble keeping up.
"Do what you want to the women and children but leave me alone"- George Carlin
by That's a Winner on
May 29, 2008 12:36 PM EDT
up
0 recs
Ankiel is a plus centerfielder
when he’s in a funk, he’s only killing the team on one side of the ball.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on
May 29, 2008 6:33 PM EDT
up
0 recs
Agreed
And is there a level above the “plus” label? I’m think Ankiel might be a “plus plus” CFer.
I’m eagerly looking forward to the mid-season play-by-play defensive metrics to see where he ranks. To my untrained eye which has watched every game this year (-1 Saturday: thanks FOX, you suck), he’s been a solid A/A+ on defense in center field.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on
May 29, 2008 6:40 PM EDT
up
0 recs
An .850 OPS
would still make him one of our 3 best OFs, though. His OBP is legit—it’s the highest of our OF’s and he has all kinds of power. .950 is probably unrealistic but I don’t think .850 is and, if I’m right, that still puts him above Skip and, possibly, Ankiel.
by chuckb on
May 29, 2008 9:52 AM EDT
up
0 recs
He still makes for a good bat
but he’s so bad defensively, that I’m not sure an .850 OPS warrants him stumbling around in LF.
by azruavatar on
May 29, 2008 10:14 AM EDT
up
0 recs
No, No, No, Az...
Haven’t you heard?
Duncan’s one of the very best left fielders in the league according to the last couple months of popular defensive metrics.
</sarcasm>
All in all, though, I’m still inclined to let him try to work out of it. His OBP is legit, and his MLB history suggests his potent bat was, as well. This current aberration does give the appearance of a temporary funk. Hopefully. If not, it’s gonna be really hard to trade him.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on
May 29, 2008 5:36 PM EDT
up
0 recs
Duncan get "hated on" by the fans
because he looks so unprofessional in the outfield. and then when you top that with him looking like he doesn’t know what he’s doing at the plate when he’s in a slump, it just snowballs. it seems like he’s taking the flack from the fans to heart… which means he needs to buck up and show them he can hit. you’re right, Mather wouldn’t be that significant of an upgrade imo. Plus, Duncan is already our power bat off the bench. He’s just been flat-out outplayed by the other outfielders on this team.
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
May 29, 2008 2:02 PM EDT
up
0 recs
blind man bluff
watching him the other night, pitch recognition was his problem. swing was pathetic for sure, but the pitches he did not recognize early enough was, i believe, the cause.
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
by sportsman on
May 29, 2008 6:52 PM EDT
up
0 recs
nice read
you make a great point about glaus escaping the fan abuse, i think one of the reasons duncan receives so much heat is in how he looks at he plate. his last few at bats have been very ugly, it appears he is guessing (and guessing wrong) everytime at the plate.
if the cardinals were to promote reyes because of an injury, is that his last option or would we be able to send him back down?
by truemun12 on May 29, 2008 9:34 AM EDT 0 recs
his option is good all year
he can go up and down to the team’s delight
by azruavatar on
May 29, 2008 9:35 AM EDT
up
0 recs
I read about this rule yesterday.....
Is this the way it has always been, or were some changes made to it recently?
by SoonerfanTU on
May 29, 2008 9:38 AM EDT
up
0 recs
Always been
Options are not a limitation on how often a person can be sent down but more a limitation on how long a player can be on your 40 man roster but not be on the active roster. A player can only spend 3 years on a 40 man roster and not on a 25 man roster before he is out of options. If you spend your first year going up and down that is 1 year, but if year 2 you spend the entire time on the active roster (or DL) before going up and down again in year 3 you still have only burnt 2 option years.
by StLHugo on
May 29, 2008 1:51 PM EDT
up
0 recs
the abuse question
i’d further suggest that while it may not be a conscious thought on the part of the abusers, the existence of mather and other outfield options in contrast to the absence of viable 3b options may play a role in the quantity of abuse as well.
by sdesserman on
May 29, 2008 12:01 PM EDT
up
0 recs
I am starting to get worried too...
... about Glaus.
I like him phisically, he’s playing pretty steady good defense, but damn he seems to melt once at the plate, and expecially with RBI opportunities. To what I can judge, he seems to be over-trying, expecially he’s not capitalizing on pitcher’s mistakes (but this is, in my opinion, an illness that the whole lineup has). I really would like to see him more relaxed.
GO CARDS!!!
by SuperSeve on May 29, 2008 9:37 AM EDT 0 recs
don't know if this has been brought up
but it seems like some hitters have trouble making the change from the AL to the NL
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
May 29, 2008 2:04 PM EDT
up
0 recs
Oswalt
Seems like we’ve done well against him in the past, but I may be thinking of somebody else. Anybody know our record against him, or if anybody in the lineup really tears him up?
by SoonerfanTU on May 29, 2008 9:39 AM EDT 0 recs
stats vs. Oswalt
BA/OPS/SLG
Ank .400/.400/400 10 ABs
Iz2 .400/.500/.400 5
AK .375/.444/.625 8
Skip .333/.455/.333 9
LaRue .308/.419/.308 26
Albert .299/.356/.507 67
Dunc .188/.278/.438 16
Miles .143/.143/.214 14
Ryan .125/.125/.250 8
Molina .100/.100/.100 10
Ludwick .000/.000/.000 3
Glaus .000/.000/.000 5
by gocards62 on
May 29, 2008 10:04 AM EDT
up
0 recs
wow
LaRue is batting .308 against Oswalt with 26 ABs? Holy crap!
by Evilfrog on
May 29, 2008 10:55 AM EDT
up
0 recs
Look at the SLG...
That’s 8 for 26 with 8 singles.
by Phizzle on
May 29, 2008 11:36 AM EDT
up
0 recs
Better than nothing
Molina hasn’t done better with only a few less ABs.
by saladdays on
May 29, 2008 11:44 AM EDT
up
0 recs
right.
Who cares?!? It’s LaRue. The worst hitter in Baseball.@ For him to have .308 against a pitcher like Oswalt just amazes me.
@ I don’t care if im wrong on the worst hitter in Baseball stat.
by Evilfrog on
May 29, 2008 1:30 PM EDT
up
0 recs
LaRue used to be a decent offensive catcher
he’s fallen off a cliff as he’s aged. It’s not rare for catchers to do that.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on
May 29, 2008 6:35 PM EDT
up
0 recs
bat kennedy cleanup!
go cards, o's, and phillies.
...boiler up.
by moboiler on
May 29, 2008 11:12 AM EDT
up
0 recs
Maybe he'll get this 3rd hit of '08 tonight!
I was all ready to joke about Porn Stache when I heard he was excited that he bats well against Oswalt, because I was thinking that meant he was batting like .050 against him or something, the fact that he’s hitting .308 with 26abs really ruins all my fun :(
His porn stache is still pretty awesome though
by soty987 on
May 29, 2008 7:21 PM EDT
up
0 recs
Guess not, on the team success part.....
Including the postseason, Oswalt is 11-5 with a 2.91 ERA in 28 career games against the Cardinals. He’s 7-0 with a 1.56 ERA in 12 outings against them – all quality starts – since Sept. 27, 2005.
by SoonerfanTU on
May 29, 2008 11:32 AM EDT
up
0 recs
Larry, that's what options are for.
If you have a young guy who has shown some signs of talent but is struggling badly - and make no mistake, Dunc is struggling BADLY - it does nobody any favors to keep letting him fail. Rather, find out what’s wrong and fix it if it can be fixed, under conditions that don’t hurt the team. Short trips back to AAA happen all the time, to more “talented” players than Duncan. To me the only uncertainty is whether Dunc really has .850-OPS-level “talent” to begin with (right, AZ), and therefore whether a demotion and some instruction will actually “fix” him. But that is certainly not a reason to keep him in the Show when sound alternatives are available.
by StanTheManFan on May 29, 2008 9:41 AM EDT 0 recs
sample size
i’m not convinced that duncan is “broken” so badly that he needs to go down to AAA. a month into the season he was hitting .290 with an obp above .400 and a .450ish slugging pct - figures very close to his career norms. 50 at-bats later, everybody has decided that he can’t hit. i think that’s a premature conclusion.
by lboros on
May 29, 2008 10:12 AM EDT
up
0 recs
the downside of sending Duncan down?
I just don’t see the downside in sending C. Duncan down. A guy like Ankiel, one can argue we miss his defense. But for a one-dimensional player like Duncan, when he can’t perform that one dimension-mash right handers-houston, we got a problem. How does it harm Duncan or the team for him to go to Memphis until he against starts mashing right handers? If he needs to fix the swing due to bad habits acquired while injured last season, then going to AAA makes all the sense in the world.
The plus for the team is they get to take a look at a hot power bat from a guy who can actually play the OF (Mather).
by jjray on
May 29, 2008 11:26 AM EDT
up
0 recs
i don't want my players thinking
that every 3-week cold spell is grounds for demotion. you gotta let guys struggle sometimes and see how they respond to the challenge. you learn about your players that way. if there are doubts about duncan, the way to answer those doubts is to keep throwing him out there and see what he does.
the same principle that applies to anthony reyes should apply to duncan. when reyes struggles, people argue (rightly) that he needs a chance to make adjustments, pitch through his mistakes, and establish himself. when he gets yanked out of the rotation after 2 or 3 bad turns, we all complain that this is no way to develop players. i feel the same way about duncan. he’s young and he’s got talent, but we’ll never find out the limits of that talent unless we’re prepared to ride out his slumps. this current slump is not that big a deal - it has lasted 57 at-bats, and his OPS is .637 in that span. i think it’s being blown out of proportion.
by lboros on
May 29, 2008 11:40 AM EDT
up
0 recs
I'm with you 100% LB.
But I will say that we are not a team that is so good that we can afford a lot of that practice. We need to win.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
May 29, 2008 12:08 PM EDT
up
0 recs
I think one of his main points though
is that our outfield can afford to see Duncan get his swing back
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
May 29, 2008 2:07 PM EDT
up
0 recs
At the cost of Ank, Barton, Luddy, and Schumaker getting DESERVED at-bats?
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
May 29, 2008 2:42 PM EDT
up
0 recs
who's to say when it will happen
not saying he deserves to get as much playing time as Ank and Lud either. he’s definitely at the bottom of the list, but still. not a bad #5
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
May 29, 2008 2:56 PM EDT
up
0 recs
While slumping he is still as good as Skippy
A slumping Duncan has an ops of .743
Skppy has .740
Barton has .740
Duncan stil hits right handers ok even with the slump. Its pretty clear who should sit first vs RHP, its not Duncan.
by DriverZn on
May 29, 2008 3:00 PM EDT
up
0 recs
What about defense?
Did you see the Dodger game last Sunday? Would Skippy or Barton have let that ball drop out in LF? Probably not. But Dunc did and it cost us the game.
by jdubya on
May 29, 2008 4:44 PM EDT
up
0 recs
He didn't "cost us the game"
yeah, he should have caught it, but letting that ball drop cost us one out and put a man on first base. It wasn’t like there were two outs and the bases loaded in a game we were winning; there was no one on base when it happened, so the damage was quite minimal when looked at rationally. Even if duncan caught that ball, we still had to score and hold the lead; our win expectancy before the “single” was just ~36% (and 28.5% after).
It took a wild pitch and a double/possible triple down the line to “lose the game”, and if juan pierre bunts for a hit instead of a failed sacrifice after the error, we still lose the game.
And besides, the only reason we were even in extra innings was because skip schumaker didn’t catch a catchable fly ball earlier in the game, allowing a run to score. That play was at least as culpable for the loss as Duncan’s misjudgment of that fly ball. That, and Skip’s 0-4 with two strikeouts and a GIDP from the leadoff spot.
"the hardest decision to make is to do nothing; there is a terrible temptation to interfere." -gen patton
by SleepyCA on
May 29, 2008 5:32 PM EDT
up
1 recs
Is this really a 3 week cold spell...
or was April the illusion. Since July of last year, Duncan is being outhit by Miles. I know he was injured but if it was so bad he should have gone to the training staff and admitted he was hurting. Either way, he looks totally lost at the plate right now and with his bad defense he has become a liability. The Cards cannot give any games away this year as both the Cubs and Astros are good. I would love to see Duncan in the lineup regularly mashing RH pitching but he cannot continue to struggle to get right at the big league level.
by indakind on
May 29, 2008 12:15 PM EDT
up
0 recs
You know, the Giants could use a LH 1b with some power. :)
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
May 29, 2008 12:17 PM EDT
up
0 recs
along with "small sample size"
That should get a few more chuckles as well.
by OKCARDSFAN_411 on
May 29, 2008 4:34 PM EDT
up
0 recs
cold spell
The trainers said Dunc can play if he wanted last year…. He had no chance of hurting him self anymore.. They basically said it just depends on how much pain he can stomach. Dunc played as long as he could and I seem to remember him shutting it down after the zona series and when the Cards fell out of contention..
He was hurt so I don’t place much on the 2nd half stats of 2007
by ICbirdfan on
May 29, 2008 12:20 PM EDT
up
0 recs
I'm not sure that it's Duncan's cold spell that should send him down
But maybe its a result of Ludwick becoming a everyday player. Duncan really needs AB’s but there are not any with the big team. Send him down let him play every day in the AAA OF. Come next year the team will need him to be the best player possible, whether he’s starting or he’s traded away.
by Stan and Slaughter on
May 29, 2008 12:20 PM EDT
up
0 recs
i agree with benching too quickly
chris has barely produced in a season plus, his only value is when he hits
evidenced by the tiffie fly ball that dropped
we have outfielders who can outperform him in any facet of the game minus power even when hes going well
id rather see his ABs go to barton due to the upgrade in D
Come on 2009!
by benstl on
May 29, 2008 1:53 PM EDT
up
0 recs
If the Cards want to be serious about contending
in the Central or for the wild card, they can’t afford to have guys like Duncan and Kennedy get tons of playing time to try and work their way out of long slumps. We have to try and field the best team every night.
If the Cards were paying Duncan 8-10 million a season I could see playing him as much as possible because of the investment they have in him…but he is not being paid big money, so in my opinon he is replaceable at this point. Kennedy is being paid quite a bit but since he has not put up good numbers for a long period of time it is getting to the point of cutting your losses with him and finding someone else. If the Cards are in the buisness to win and to contend then they need to do what the need to do to field a better team without these guys.
by KYCards on
May 29, 2008 1:57 PM EDT
up
0 recs
It's a good thing
That we are in the middle of a rebuilding year and will be able to afford to leave guys at the AAA level to devolp instead of trading them away for a short at maybe a playoff birth.
by Evilfrog on
May 29, 2008 2:06 PM EDT
up
0 recs
I would agree with the "rebuilding year" but
since we are only a game and a half out of the Central at the end of May and at the top for the Wild Card position, I think we are getting to the point of re-thinking if this is a re-building year or not. If this team has a chance for the playoffs (which they do as of now) it might be time to re-think some things.
by KYCards on
May 29, 2008 2:12 PM EDT
up
0 recs
+1
I will add in that we have some pieces of value to trade that may not hurt the team in the long run anyway.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
May 29, 2008 2:44 PM EDT
up
0 recs
Fair point. Counter-points:
Point 1: We can agree that we do not wish to encourage our players to be constantly looking over their shoulders, however, this is the MLB. It’s not a developmental league. Players should be accountable. Duncan hasn’t hit for a sustained period for quite some time (stretching into last season). Yes, there was the injury but performance is performance.
Point 2: The team has to weigh cost-benefit. Any psychological benefit to one C. Duncan for giving him the long rope is outweighed by the people we are taking the ABs away from—Ludwick sat 2 out of 3 games recently. C. Duncan sucks in the field and has, in fact, hurt the team with his fielding recently. When Ankiel struggles he can still help the team in the field. Duncan is the reverse. Ergo, a slump by Duncan is more detrimental to the team and should be treated with a quicker hook than a slump by someone like Ankiel or Skip.
Point 3: C. Duncan isn’t an established play for whom a separate standard should apply. Reyes got demoted because the team lost confidence in him. Skip got demoted early last season for the same reason (it was quick hook with Skip). C. Duncan should face the same standard.
by jjray on
May 29, 2008 3:20 PM EDT
up
0 recs
counter-counter points
point 1 — i do think duncan’s being held accountable for his performance - he is losing playing time. he came into the season as the most experienced, best-established outfielder on the team; he now ranks 4th in at-bats among the outfielders, because other guys are playing better. accountability is being enforced. it’s up to duncan to respond to the challenge by earning his playing time back.
point 2 —i agree that ludwick should not be sitting -—not for duncan, not for ankiel, not for anybody. i’m not advocating a longer rope for duncan because of psychological factors; i’m advocating a longer rope for him because he has an established level of ability in the big leagues. the ability’s still there for 25-hr power; it’s not manifesting right now, but it hasn’t gone away.
point 3 —i hope they never jerk any player around the way they jerked around reyes -—coach’s son or not. as for schumaker, you can’t compare those situations; at the tine he got demoted last year (may 9) schumaker had an ops of .556, or 200 points below duncan’s current level, and he had barely over 100 career at-bats. duncan’s established level of ability is much higher than schumaker’s was then.
by lboros on
May 29, 2008 4:22 PM EDT
up
0 recs
Circular logic
i do think duncan’s being held accountable for his performance – he is losing playing time. <<
lboros, I like your analysis and writing style but we’ll agree to disagree on this one. The argument is circular in my view. Duncan lost his hitting groove due to injury last season. He’s working his way through it at present. Give him time. But his playing time has been cut due to poor performance. Meaning he has even less ABs spread out over greater intervals with which to find his groove again. .... that’s not the way a hitter re-establishes what worked for him in past seasons. It’s done by playing every day. But Chris Duncan can’t play everyday on the Cardinals because he sucks right now so logic dictates his chances of recovering his form are very low and are rapidly diminishing. It’s in the best interest of the Cardinals and C. Duncan to take a turn in AAA. If he mashes down there, wonderful. Bring him right back up.
by jjray on
May 29, 2008 5:29 PM EDT
up
0 recs
where does it say that he can't get his stroke back playing part-time?
role players have to learn to stay sharp getting only 15 ab a week — and duncan is, and always has been, a role player since he came to the big leagues. he’s never started regularly against lhp, and he probably never will; he has always been lifted in the late innings for defensive reasons. he entered the season as a 21-ab-a-week player; now he’s a 15-ab-a-week player. if he starts to show signs of life, the abs will come.
in my mind it’s a measure of how far the cardinals have come as a team that chris duncan — regarded by many as the team’s 2d-best hitter coming into the season — is currently their 4th outfielder. he has looked very weak of late, and people are having a strong reaction to that; if he continues to look this feeble for another 50 at-bats, i might be convinced that he’s better off going to triple A to work himself out of the funk. but it still seems like a premature decision to me.
by lboros on
May 29, 2008 5:44 PM EDT
up
0 recs
50 ABS
OK, we’ll revisit it in a month because it might take him that long to get 50 ABs. Really, I think you’ve jumped the shark. The point is that it is much, much easier to get back into a groove and find one’s stroke playing every day as opposed to pulling splinters out of the rear end. What’s best for Duncan long-term? Go back to AAA and fix his swing. But a month of this won’t kill the Cardinals although it will be tough on C. Duncan. We’ll see how it works out.
by jjray on
May 29, 2008 6:35 PM EDT
up
0 recs
My prediction:
0-3 with a walk and 2 Ks, then he’s pulled for a late-inning substitution in left.
Prove me wrong, Chris!
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
by Mr Clean on
May 29, 2008 6:54 PM EDT
up
0 recs
reguardless of who we think should play
whoever gets in there has our support…go cards
i take your signatures and use them as away messages
by ihavebadknees on
May 29, 2008 7:25 PM EDT
up
0 recs
Dunc
There are several things that Duncan does that may irritate the most loyal Card fan:
—He ALWAYS swings at the first pitch. If I were in a big slump offensively I would maybe get a few good looks out there. Make the pitcher work a little before popping out to third base.
—He is an adventure in the field. Even though his stats may be average, he just doesn’t look comfortable.
—He is taking time from other more deserving outfielders. I hate seeing Ludwick on the bench in place of Dunc.
I don’t want to bash Duncan – I wish him the best and hope he can get things back together. He may be a better fit in the AL, though.
by BB20 on May 29, 2008 9:41 AM EDT 0 recs
he also spends too much time
eating those tobacco burritos.
by krippledmaster on
May 29, 2008 10:24 AM EDT
up
0 recs
Agreed
Probably the most annoying thing he does…
"because at the end of the day they still are the Chicago Cubs"
by rockin the red on
May 29, 2008 11:08 AM EDT
up
0 recs
OK who cares about the tobacco......
Carp chews
Ank chews
Dunc Chews
Lud chews
Frankling Chews
Tyler Johnson Chews
Glaus Chews
Lohse Chews
Come one a lot of the Cards chew…..Hell I have not even named all the chewers.
by ICbirdfan on
May 29, 2008 11:09 AM EDT
up
0 recs
Don't forget Dunc's dad.
Baseball's only fun if you're playing it, watching it, or thinking about it.
by Eckstreem on
May 29, 2008 11:12 AM EDT
up
0 recs

