Bombs Away
by the red baron on May 24, 2008 10:51 AM EDT
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PrintFine, fine game last night. ADAM returning to form, (I'm going to start going with the usage that Scarlet coined for him last season; it makes him sound like a giant robot, and I like that image) Ludwick continues to impersonate the man he's hitting behind, and a Chris Perez sighting. Other than the rain delay, it doesn't get any better than that. Speaking of Scarlet, wonder what ever happened to her?
You know, I'm a little puzzled by ADAM's pitch selection this season. He's throwing far more sliders than in the past, and actually less of his giant robot curveball. I assume that it's a deliberate choice, but I wonder why? The only real reason I can come up with that makes much sense is just trying to adjust the gameplan. Hitters have learned to look for the hook, so you give them a different breaking ball. Still, though, after watching how successful he was last night by dropping more curves in there, I can't help but think that I at least somewhat disagree with the move to the slider. Thoughts, anyone?
I want to award the Post of the Night Award for last night's game thread to Adjusted Expectations. The post which earned him this prestigious award, which I just now invented, was in response to another poster who said, "Gary Bennett is on the DL because he can't throw the ball back to the pitcher. The award winning response:
"LaRue should be on the DL because he can't hit ball back to the pitcher."
Congratulations, Adjusted Expectations, on this tremendous honour. Yours is a shining example for all others to follow.
You know, by now, we've all heard that 'Joey Bombs' Mather is absolutely destroying the pitchers down in Triple A. He's currently sporting a nifty 1.051 OPS at Memphis, and has been particularly terrifying as of late, with eight of his ten home runs in the past two weeks or so. He spent a bit of time on the DL early this season, but has done nothing but rake since coming back. The most impressive part of his line? The 16:16 K/BB ratio he's putting up. This is a player who has nothing left to prove in the minor leagues.
There's been some discussion around here as of late as to whether or not Mather should already be with the big club and just how to make space for him. I wanted to sort of get an overall read on the situation and just what everyone thinks about Mr. Mather's place in the firmament.
The unfortunate thing, of course, is that Mather plays primarily in the outfield, an area in which the Cardinals are long on players and short on opportunity. The, (at least moderately) good news is that Mather is also capable of playing first base and third base, at least well enough to sub in at those positions occasionally. Thus, he's a good candidate for that Scott Spiezio super sub sort of role that the Cardinals are really lacking currently. Of course, they are also carrying four dedicated middle infielders, with only Brendan Ryan really capable of playing at third base. Yes, before anyone says it, I know that Aaron Miles has seen time at third. However, just because you are physically capable of standing at a given position on the field doesn't mean you can really play that postion. But, I digress.
As it stands now, the Cardinals have a couple of options for making some space for Mr. Mather. First off, they could option Brendan Ryan back to Memphis, and just slot Mather into his spot on the roster. This is the path of least resistance, really. Ryan still has options, so it wouldn't take any sort of complicated finagling to get him through waivers or anything of the sort. The move would help out the offense significantly, specifically the bench, because Mather would be a much better stick pinch hitting than what Ryan is. The downside to this would be a downgrade in the middle infield defense overall, as Aaron Miles would then become the team's primary backup shortstop. This may not be an optimal solution, but it would be the simplest.
Option two would be to work out a deal with the Cleveland Indians for Brian Barton's rights. At that point, the Cardinals would control him outright, and could option him down the Memphis to get more regular playing time. This would probably be the best solution for Barton himself, as I believe he's really struggling to adjust to such limited playing time as he's seen recently. He doesn't look overmatched to me; he just looks as if he's a half beat slow due to rust. The downside here, of course, is that it costs you a player to get him from the Indians. What kind of prospect would they want in return for CrabMan? Tough to say, really, but I don't think it would come cheap. The Indians have all the leverage in this situation; the Cards are the team that really needs to try and make the deal. Cleveland could certainly use Barton in their own outfield right now, but they can afford to wait. It's not costing them anything. The Cards, on the other hand, need to either find more time for Barton or try to do something different with him. In a case like this, I'm afraid the cost of trying to outright trade for Barton might be higher than the Cardinals are willing to pay.
Option three would be to try and trade one of our current outfielders. This would open up a space for Mather, allow a little more playing time for Barton, and might bring a nice return, in the form of a middle infield or pitching prospect. You can't trade Barton, you'd be crazy to trade Ludwick, and I don't think Ankiel's really movable at this point. That just leaves Skip and Baby Huey. Skip plays above average defense and has shown at least serviceable offensive prowess. Duncan is a masher, or, at least, he's supposed to be, but he's been less than imposing this season. The downside here, of course, is just the chance that you end up hurting the production of the outfield in the long run, if Mather and Barton both fizzle out, and Rasmus fails to drag himself out of his current rut. Personally, I don't think there's really a lot of risk to this option, but it is more complicated than some of the other available routes. At the very least, this may be an option that has to be explored a little later, rather than immediately. As a La Russa favourite, I'd have to think that Skip is pretty safe, so I'm looking at you on this one, Duncan. Of course, he seems to have some sort of connection to the coaching staff, too...
Option four: drop a reliever. This team is currently carrying seven relievers, leaving them with a somewhat short bench most days, particularly when the manager insists on at least one defensive substitution most games, usually in left field. Of course, the Cards do have a couple of pitchers who hit very well, so that helps to alleviate the pinch hitting crunch a bit, but still. The real problem with this option is that it's probably just not realistic with this coaching staff. Personally, I think you can manage a game without using three relievers to get five outs, but this particular manager and pitching coach disagree with me. The upside here would be not having to see Jason LaRue pinch hitting nearly as much, as the deeper bench would hopefully guard against too many instances of him being the only guy available to hit.
Option five would be to do something to Adam Kennedy. Whoops, I mean with Adam Kennedy, with him. I wasn't suggesting that some crazed, sleep deprived blogger should go all Tonya Harding or anything... By the way, none of you have ever heard of me before, okay? Don't ask questions, just tell them you don't know me! God, you people and all your constant questions.
Anyway, putting Kennedy on the disable list with, as someone suggested in the comments the other day, a hangnail, or foot fungus, or something similar, would open up a spot the same way sending Ryan down would, but with the added benefit of not hurting the defense up the middle. Brendan could start at second most days alongside Izturis, giving the Cards the most effective MI they're currently capable of fielding, and the spot for Mather opens up. The downside here is, um, well, hmm. Well, the only real downside is that this is a more temporary answer than the others, since the DL does have a time limit. Of course, that could also be construed as a benefit, really, since it gives a more concrete time frame to evaluate Mather and a handy reason to send him back down if he struggles.
Option six would be to simply bring Mather up, put him on the roster, and hope that no one notices. Tell opposing teams he's like a foreign cousin or something, sort of a Perfect Strangers situation. He comes up as a pinch hitter, just tell them you're humouring the guy, who, by the way, totally doesn't know English. At all. Keep quiet, Joe. I mean, Heimsdell. Show them your native dance. No, Heimsdell, your native dance is not the Bus Stop. Oy, such a kidder, this one.
To me, this is the best option. It's pretty much airtight, to me. Unless, of course, someone noticed he was wearing a uniform and tended to hit homers and that there were 26 men on your lineup card. Which someone almost assuredly would. Airtight.
Technically, option seven is just to leave him where he is, and let him continue to develop. I guess this is actually the path of least resistance, but it doesn't really improve the team, and that's sort of the point here. So to me, this isn't really much of an option, but it certainly is within the Cardinals' means.
So, what does everybody think about this? I'm really interested to get people's thoughts on this. I certainly think it's an interesting question.
Happy weekend, peoples.
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Trading
How bout trading AK to the Giants for Ray Durham in a money drop.
or try to pull Mark Ellis away from Oakland before he becomes a Type A free Agent
or even better
We create a time machine to back and sign Mark Grudzielanek
by FlimtotheFlam on May 24, 2008 11:18 AM EDT up reply actions
If we could get '05 MarkyG that might work.
by cardsgirl95 on May 24, 2008 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
the 06, 07 and 08
versions aren’t that bad.
by Hardcore Legend on May 24, 2008 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions
Yes I always wondered why they didn't sign him.
In the long run it would have been real smart and not that expensive.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
Adam Kennedy randomly deciding to be horrible
kind’ve was a big surprise. He really didn’t show signs of this sudden decline in Anaheim. If he was the AK that he was in the AL, then the whole thing would have been a steal.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
The answer with Adam Kennedy
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
Glad that option wasn't available
when I was a kid!!! Goalies, like lefthanded relievers, tend to be (ahem) “quirky”... I qualify! ;-)
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on May 24, 2008 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions
Cards will do nothing
but i would DL Kennedy. This would buy time to see how he works out and get us closer to the trade deadline so we could trade Dunc or Skippy at that point. Long term we HAVE to trade some of these outfielders. TLR keeps saying its a good problem to have, which i agree only from a trade stand point. We have a surplus that should be able to bring us a good middle infielder (minor leaguer most likely). By next year we can purge ourselves of all our middle infield bleck (i just made up that word to discribe them).
Kennedy is done
I believe Kennedy’s athletic skills have deteriorated markedly. I don’t know if this is normal decline or the product of years of hard living. If you check out his comparable players on baseball-reference.com, you will find two infielders – Johnny Logan and Tony Bernazard – who had decent careers and then fell off a cliff in their early 30’s. I think Kennedy shows all the signs of that kind of collapse. No power, reduced speed, lots of weak grounders, and even a lack of zip on his throws to first. He is done – but I tend to agree that the Cardinals won’t do anything to address it. It would be a shame if they optioned Ryan to Memphis – he is clearly a better player today than Kennedy.
The time has come for someone to put his foot down and that foot is me
Hard living is an interesting comment...
Because I dinstinctly remember the day he and Kip Wells were signed there was this picture of him next to Wells and he looked hungover beyond belief . Does anyone else remember that pic? It would be great to see it again. Hard living or HARD DRINKING might be the reason…just speculation. Booze will destroy coordination among other things…its led to the end of many a ball player.
mattnj
I would suggest a trade of an outfielder.
But I don’t think Mr. Mozeliak is ever going to trade anyone. He’s just going to say he is, have scouts show up and then he’ll take the easy way out-which is to send Ryan back to Memphis. I do not have the confidence in Mr. Mozeliak that you all do…....I think he’s just the face man.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
see my post. I think it's stupid to trade an outfielder who ALL have more upside than Kennedy.
I don’t see much value obtained in a trade this early.
Kennedy has ZERO future value. If you want Mather up Kennedy needs to go.
Really?
Why I agree with you that Reyes isn’t worth much so he is asking way to much in wanting a top prospect. He did move but two fan favorites in Edmonds and Rolen. Both of which have worked out extremely well. I don’t think he is gun shy on trading people.
Now if the coward could only stop forcing crappy players on the major league roster that would be swell.
Mo is not a coward.......
While I say DFA Kennedy it probably is not realistic as future FA may not want to come to the Cards if they think they will be dumped if they don’t perform well, but heck if you pay them enough I don’t think it will cross their mind.
I agree with Evilfrog, a coward would have held on to a bad Jim Edmonds and a coward would have just held onto a hurt Scott Rolen.
I don't think that's a consideration
All FAs know that they’ll get cut from any of the 30 teams if they don’t perform well.
And Kennedy’ll get paid either way.
I agree that Mo’s no coward, though, nor a face-man or puppet dancing on the strings held by DeWitt…
Ain't NOBODY makin' trades....
on May 24 (‘cept for the bucket-of-ashes-for-a-bucket-of-coal variety), so that’s a down-the-road option. El Birdos have won five of their last six after their eight-outta-ten freefall, so there’s no immediate pressure to make changes to the roster.
Joey Bombs (great nickname, Baron!) has not been playing any 3B in Memphis; one would think he’d need more than the Cliffs Notes “How To Play Third” before you’d stick him on an MLB infield, even just to give Glaus the occasional day off.
Cleveland will not make a “reasonable” deal for Barton; he’s gotta stay on the roster, even if playing every day at AAA would be better for him.
Am I the only guy concerned about Albert “shaking off” Chris Young’s injury? Pujols was uncharacteristically “out of it” in his ABs following that inning… he didn’t get anything to hit last night (what else is new?), so it was hard to tell if he had his usual level of concentration. Hopefully, Young’s conversation with Albert will help El Hombre:
Young was back at Petco Park on Friday, just two days after a line drive off the bat of St. Louis’ Albert Pujols broke his nose. His nose and both eyes were swollen. He was also bruised below both eyes and on his nose.“I have a headache, but given the circumstances, I probably feel as good as I could,” Young said. “But there’s a lot of pressure, a lot of swelling and a constant headache.”
Padres trainer Todd Hutcheson said Young will be prevented from doing anything baseball related for at least two weeks.
Young, who did not suffer a concussion on the play, was placed on the 15-day disabled list on Thursday. The 6-foot-10 Young wanted to remain in the game even as he was sitting on the grass with blood gushing out of the bridge of his nose.
“I thought if [Hutcheson] could get the blood stopped, I could jump back on the mound and try to keep going,” he said.
Pujols, who was visibly shaken while Young was being treated on the field, spent much of the time praying with San Diego first baseman Adrian Gonzalez. Young finally had a chance to speak with Pujols on Thursday.
“He felt bad about it,” Young said. “He really showed great sportsmanship, a class guy. I told him it was out of his control. It was nothing he did. It was a freak thing that happened.”
If Ludwick continues to rake, Albert should start seeing at least a few pitches to hit…
I agree that Kennedy looks lost at the plate… it’ll be interesting to see if he’s in the lineup tonight against Penny…
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
RB is great
But I believe that nickname was coined by Rasmus down in Memphis
Cardinal fan in the heart of Braves country
Track 'em Tigers - An SB Nation Blog for Auburn Tigers fans
Re: Albert shaking it off.
Im not to worried. It may stay with him a few games though. I don’t think it will be enough to send him into a prolong skid. If he is still slumply when we are done with the Dogers; we’ll; Backe should bring him out of it when we get back home. :-)
Best option is to reach for that crowbar
but I wonder what kind of trade value Mather might have? It sure looks like we would be selling high – I wonder if there are any surplus AA MI prospects out there with lots of upside?
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
Oh, Mr. Red Baron-
Once again, I find your post delightful-even if you are a bit wicked today with the talk of a crowbar. Um, you are kidding, aren’t you?
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Kennedy and Duncan
They need to move Kennedy. I would offer Kennedy and a bag a cash for anything. Is the Pirate Parrot available? He could back up Fredbird.
What do we owe Kennedy still? $8 million. Then if you send him and $7 million someplace you are money ahead.
His upside seems to be no higher than what Ryan or Miles can provide. And that level of production seems highly unlikely.
Long term, you also need to move Duncan. Duncan is a first baseman playing left field, and while not a bad hitter, is pretty much a generic lefthanded slugger. His ceiling seems to be “average offense for LF, poor defense.” He is OK, but he is not driving you toward a pennant.
The Cardinals have a first baseman and a whole lot of lefthanded hitting outfielders, many of which can actually play the outfield. The only reason to keep Duncan around is if you are concerned Pujols won’t last the season and you plan to plug Duncan into first base.
I’m not slamming Duncan—he seems like a good guy, and it is not his fault he is blocked from playing his natural position. He deserves praise for the work he out into learning LF. But we don’t really need him, and he would be better off someplace that did really need him.
Bernie pointed out that Duncan is average defensively in LF by the numbers and poor at 1b defensively.
He does look like a 1B but he doesn’t field like one.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
Ummm...
And Bernie is basing that upon what? All 24 games he’s played at 1st base at the MLB level since 2005?
Forgive me if I’m not entirely convinced that 24 whole games is a definitive indicator of his defense at the 1B position.
There are 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.
how about this
we just agree that he is neither. At times he makes great plays.At times he looks absolutely terrible out there. Hard as it is to believe, both the numbers and the eyes can lie . So he isn’t a great outfielder, if his bat comes around then it is worth having him out there. If he goes into one of those terrible slumps he shouldn’t be playing. Those bad plays do seem to come in bunches, and he doesn’t look smooth out there, but there are times when he is a serviceable Leftfielder. Just as long as he isn’t taking bats away from Ank or Luddy. That being said, I do wish we could find a way to get a look at Mather out there.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I would trade Duncan...
Mather could slide right into Dunc’s spot. Seems like we have 2 of the same player but Mather might have more upside. He’s already hit more HRs than Dunc in a season of minor league ball (31 last year) and he’s killing it right now. More so than Dunc ever did (career minor league OPS of .755). Of course, the big caveat is that Mather has not done it at the big league level. Yet.
Also, I think we can get more trade value with Dunc than with Skippy. Teams would probably give you something of value for Dunc’s power. Plus, we need a guy like Skippy on the club, gets on base, good glove, etc.
As for Kennedy, CROWBAR!
gotta argue this
Joe Mather’s upside IS Chris Duncan, except right handed. Chris Duncan had a .950 OPS over his first 650 big league PA’s, and had an platoon OPS of 1.018 against RHP in that time frame. That is pretty incredible performance and if Mather comes within 100 points of that OPS he’ll be a very successful MLB corner outfielder.
And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...
Mather is a lot better defensively. I think I heard he can play CF. Dunc is just okay at LF. Imagine him in CF?
"Why does he keep saying that?"
Mather has been playing CF
in Rasmus’ absence. He’s not an answer there over any long-term time frame and the other options (hearther, stavinoha and johnson) are all discernibly worse.
Fantastic
analysis Red Barron. Fine entertainment also. Birds I’m sure have feelers out on Kennedy and Duncan. St. Louis has a nice family atmosphere. However, its probably time to send some of the children out into the world. Watching Duncan and Kennedy’s regretful at-bats isn’t really good for team morale. Enough said about Barton, he will be sent back, where he will be sent down where he should be.
I like watching the kids play. Hunger, enthusiasm, all the good things that keep the Pujols and the Molinas and the Glaus’s involved. It can be a long season…................support the pitchers now!!!!!!!! Ankiel needs to relax a bit. Good pitches will come when he stops swinging at the “other kind”.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on May 24, 2008 12:07 PM EDT reply actions
As a prelude move
to see what moves you will need to make closer to the trading deadline, and to see what you might have in Mather, I would put Adam’s arm in a sling for a couple weeks, DL him and rehab him in Memphis for as long as allowed.
ADAM's Curveball
i think you might be on to something with regards to Waino’s less reliance on the curve. Friday’s Wall Street Journal had an article on MLB’s pitch trajectory system called Pitch f/x which measures velocity and movement of pitches. The article signals out Wainwright. Said he had one of baseball’s most violent curves with up to 9 inches of vertical drop and more than 7 inches of horizontal movement. This resulted in an unusually high rate of swings and misses- 38% on this pitch versus about 25% league average. Considering his success with the curve as well added strain from throwing more sliders it seem that he would be might be more effective going to the curve more often.
Adam's bender is the best in the Majors
IMO. But sometimes the curve ball doesn’t work for you. It could be on days were he is having a hard time locating it he abandons it. Or at least throws it a lot less.
Good to seem him break it out last night. esspically when he needed a K.
Trade if you can get value but really you are not going to get value at this time
Kennedy needs to be DFA’ed.
He has zero upside and is under contract for 2009 as well. He has ZERO upside at this point.
I don’t think the Cards should trade anybody unless they get good value at this point. It would be stupid to trade an outfielder at this point unless you get good value. It would be easier (not very nice) but easier to just drop Kennedy who has ZERO future value.
I would try to trade for Barton.
Cleveland might be holding strong on not trading for him and hoping that the Cardinals don’t keep him on the 25. But I think that thier current slide puts a little bit of pressure on them. As far as what they would wan.. either a guy who would be ready for the bigs by next year or two guys would be be ready for the bigs in the next 2/3 years. Well that’s what I would want for Barton. I’m not sure what positions they need.
Trading Skip or Duncan can also work. But only if you get thier value. Not just 10 Prairie Sticks Maple Bats, double-dipped black, 34-inch, C243 style. Trading them for nothing for the purpose of opening up a spot to move Mather in sees rather dumb to me.
The crowbar idea also has merit.
"trade for barton" is a myth
at least according to Brian Walton at The Birdhouse.
Based on questions I have received, there is some belief that the Cardinals would be able to send Barton down Scot free as long as they worked out a trade with the Indians first. This would be in lieu of the Indians paying $25,000 to take Barton back.
While that could be partially true, it is neither the whole story nor the first step. This would come into play ONLY if Barton clears waivers first, meaning 28 other organizations would have to pass on claiming him.
Be aware that these outright waivers are irrevocable, so the Cardinals have no way of knowing if another organization would claim Barton if they were to waive him, even if a pre-arranged trade is worked out with Cleveland.
I did not believe this to be the case, and argued with him on the subscribers-only forum, but he has clubhouse access and asked people who “know”, and maintains that this is correct. He hasn’t been wrong on anything like this, ever, so I ended up conceding to him (gasp!) ;)
Unless someone else has better information, and a reason for believing it other than “I read it on COTS contracts/wikipedia/an ESPN chat transcript” (which was the best I could do by searching the internet) I have to assume that we’d have to put Barton through waivers to send him down, and I doubt if he’d make it through.
Of course, we could always trade Barton BACK to Cleveland. They need him, badly, and have a number of interesting MI prospects…
And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...
The Indians won't trade to get him back
they have no reason to. They can just sit and wait for the Cardinals to be forced to offer him back for $25k.
Don’t fool ourselves people, even with his current struggles, if Brian Barton comes off this roster in any way, he goes right onto the Indians 25-man roster and probably right into the the starting lineup as a corner OF.
by Hardcore Legend on May 24, 2008 2:17 PM EDT up reply actions
well, the Indians wouldn't have a shot at him
until every other team turned him down. The team the guy is drafted from is last on the waiver priority list. So the only way he’ll ever go back to Cleveland is if he is traded to them.
And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...
I'm pretty sure we have to offer him back first
before we put him on waivers.
by Hardcore Legend on May 24, 2008 2:42 PM EDT up reply actions
He's right
Any trade with the Indians (or any other team, for that matter) would work just like a trade after the waiver deadline, except these’d be irrevocable waivers.
I was thinking (and writing here) last night that a team like the Padres, who’d get first hack at waivers, would be well-suited for a player of Barton’s skills and potential and a trade might be worked out with them.
Another difference
would be that the Rule 5 restrictions would transfer to the team we’d trade him to.
GAAHHH!
I had no idea all of that was involved. The way I always understood it, (and from reputable publications, too) you could just negotiate with the team you drafted the player from for his rights. Apparently not.
What a ridiculously byzantine system.
All your failures are just training grounds.
by the red baron on May 24, 2008 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions
it's really not
When you think about the Rule V and some of the reasons it was put into place. Basically, this draft was put into place to keep teams from stockpiling loads of talent at the minor league level and never allowing them to play in the bigs, as the Yankees used to do for years. Setting it up this way allows players to get a chance with another club if left unprotected, and only allows teams to protect 40 players, which helps balance things out with drafted talent.
Were they to waive the rules, teams could just allow other teams to pick their players, and then negotiate with them to get the player back by offering cash or draft picks. This way at least the guy has to go through waivers first.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
Skip just keeping it warm
Isn’t Skip really just keeping the place warm till Colby is ready? We don’t need Skip when we have Colby. He takes over his spot in field and at the top of the lineup. I mean Skip wasn’t even a sure thing to make this team. You sell when his value is at his highest.
this is one correct answer, imho
actually, you could say the same thing about Luddy. If some other team perceives him as a guy capable of maintaining numbers like he is putting up, and is willing to give us something of equal value in return (IE carmona, or Cain, or peavy, etc) then you have to make that trade.
And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...
Whoa there
I love Luddy and all, but would anyone see a healthy Peavy and Ludwick being of equal value?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Rasmus as lead-off hitter
I don’t see him as a lead-off hitter, long term, but more of a 5-6 guy. He was only moved to leadoff in AA to get him more AB’s over the course of the season, and he turned himself into a genuine leadoff hitter in ST to win a spot on the 25-man. And that attempted transformation is what many are blaming his prolonged slump on.
Looking at gamelogs, aside from all the bunting, it looks to me like he’s just hitting into a lot of hard outs. I’d like to see him batting sixth or seventh when he comes up, since he has the powah to drive in the big bats ahead of him and the speed to wreak havoc for this poor batters behind him.
his speed would probably be hindered behind
slower 3-5 hitters on the bases.. I like him as a #2 hitter, personally.
thought about that too
The “Tony’s way” era is a catch-22. Under Tony’s double leadoff Razza may be great in the 9th hole, but part of that greatness is his pure speed. However, it’s well known that Tony isn’t into the speed and won’t use that as a true asset.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on May 24, 2008 5:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Tony did
have Henderson in the lead-off role at one time. I know, I know, Rasmus’ and Henderson’s speed are not the same thing. And it was 15-20 years ago, I wish that he would use the speed more here. I don’t understand how he can love the bunt so much, but then dislike using the straight steal. It confounds me when the situation calls for the steal , yet the bunt is called on.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Good Post
Red Baron. I think Kennedy needs to go away. I know just the guy to make it happen. Unfortunately, I don’t think this helps the Mather situation.
Mather is an outfielder and that’s it. They haven’t been grooming him to be a Scott Spezio. He is being groomed, or becoming, a power hitting outfielder. If we Bring him up now, even if we get rid of one of the outfielders, we are putting him in the same position as Barton. Not enough playing time and rust begins to develop. I say you let him rake down in AAA untill late season call ups(barring no injuries to our current outfield). Let him come up at the end of the year, get his feet wet, and make some decisions in the offseason about our outfield.
The only thing that would cause me to stray from this theory is if Duncan, who is really the only possible trade bait, got hot enough to be worth trading this year. Then you can bring Mather up and let the prospect/middle infielder you get for Duncan develop in the minors.
by hoofhearted-pujols on May 24, 2008 1:15 PM EDT reply actions
I disagree that the Indians have all the leverage in this situation.
All Mo has to do is call them up and say: “Look.. we’re keeping Barton no matter what.. now do you want something for him or not?”
I think Barton would benefit from some time in AAA so I was tempted to make this my vote. But my vote went to AK, who’s long overdue for a DFA.
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
I don't care about your fantasy team.
curious about another option...
Can Duncan be optioned to Memphis? He could use more playing time, to show if he can hit lefties and play the outfield. A regular major leaguer should be able to do one or both of those things. Ank/Lud/Skip give us a nice outfield against righties anyway, so we don’t exactly need Duncan’s zombie glove in the field. Family ties, and Dunc’s past ability to hit for power vs righthanded pitching, make this choice less likely, but I still want to know if sending Duncan down is even an (excuse the pun) option at this point.
yes, he has an option remaining
and hasn’t been in the majors for 3 calendar years yet.
And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...
That'd be my vote
Option Duncan down for a few weeks to get regular ABs. Play the hot hand for now, and that’s Joey Bombs.
What would we have to give to Cleveland to get Bartons rights to send him to AAA?
Maybe they want Shane Robinson? How about Reyes?
"Why does he keep saying that?"
Nothing
they would just take him back.
by Hardcore Legend on May 24, 2008 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Trade Ludwick
I know I’ll get shouted down, but this guy has great value right now. In fact, he must be at his peak value. Do what the Reds did with Hamilton—get a great pitcher back. Ludwick is 30, isn’t he? He’s not the future. And we know that Duncan/Barton/Ankiel are not going to be moved. Skip has no value.
Mather effectively brings to the lineup the same thing that Ludwick does and is 6 years younger and a bit more versatile.
If you could get the same deal the Reds got for Hamilton—would you do it? I would.
I don't know
Rare situation where a trade works out so good for both teams but Hamilton is looking like he could win the Triple Crown. No pitcher is worth a triple crown
by FlimtotheFlam on May 24, 2008 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
But we're in the thick of things
If the Cards fade in the 2nd half, then trading Ludwick while his stock is up might make sense (and create more playing time for younger guys). But the Cards look to be much better this season than anticipated. Ludwick is an essential element to the Cards current success (i.e., protect Pujols). No one else on the team can do that at present. Right now we are playing for the present in 2008 … who would have thought? I think the Cards are a playoff team.
Even if we are...
... which is probably debatable, I would rather watch a team leverage its assets as efficiently as possible for long-term competitiveness than forgo a beneficial move to for the sake of a single year.
I’m not convinced trading Ludwick is a great idea (I like his skill set and think he might contribute for years to come); but it’s certainly not an unreasonable thought… and warrants serious consideration. Besides, if I’ve learned anything from this blog, it’s that you should always try to get the best return from any given asset. Whether that return benefits this year or next is less important than shooting for a better outcome overall.
-- Aidan Sonoda
In necessariis unitas, in dubiis libertas, in omnibus caritas.
by Aidan Sonoda on May 24, 2008 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions
ludwick
also has a history of being injury prone. he’s had two years in a row here where he has been pretty healthy. its probably only a matter of time before he’s out again.
if we can get a decent return on luddy you have to seriously think about it.
"Sorry about him, he's dealing with being an inker. " - Chasing Amy
I think there's a pretty simple explanation
for the increasing number of sliders. Last year, 57% of the plate appearances Wainwright faced were from right-handed hitters. 43% were from lefties. This year the percentage of PA’s against righties has risen to 62% and the % of PA’s vs. lefties has fallen to 38%. He throws sliders more often vs. righties and curves more often vs. lefties. Most of this is just due to random chance—the teams he’s faced prefer to have their righties in the lineup rather than their lefties. I’m sure when he faces the Phils (w/ Howard, Utley, Rollins, Victorino) he’ll throw a lot more curves. I imagine over the course of the season this will all come out in the wash.
As for Mather, I don’t get the rush to promote him and I certainly don’t get the desire to trade someone to the Indians for the right to send Barton to AAA. This love affair we now have w/ Mather is the same love affair we had w/ Barton a month ago. Why would we trade someone to the Indians for the right to promote Mather? That makes no sense. Besides, Barton offers something to the major-league roster that Mather does not - speed. There will be a time to promote Mather, and if the team decided to cut bait on Kennedy in order to do it - that would make some sense. But it makes no sense whatsoever to give up a prospect just so we can send Barton down and promote Mather.
I wouldnt make the trade just so mather can be brought up.
I would make the trade because I think Barton will help the team in 09 more if he spent all of 08 getting consent ABs in AAA.
I voted for
“make a deal for the rights to Barton, then option him,” which I think is the best way for all concerned. But didn’t Cleveland make it clear they weren’t gonna deal, no matter what? I can imagine deals that might change their mind, but I wouldn’t want to make any of those deals.
One thing sure:if Barton is the biggest problem we have on this roster, this team is golden.
ship kennedy, period.
The guy isn’t coming back. Maybe Mo won’t view 2b as a revolving door like Jocketty did…in reality in the years past it could be a revolving door because the team was just too good to worry about it that much, however, the cards now give away almost half of their outs.
I love him, but if you can fleece somebody for him, ship Yadi…and if izzy comes back to 07 izzy, him too :( I’d love to see Izzy return to form and close out a world series, some heavy duty contending teams need a closer.
Ship Yadi, a good Izzy a good Duncan and Reyes for a MI with some pop, call up anderson and this team will show the cubs what a real team is.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
Yadi is a core player
He isn’t on the block—and won’t be.
by Red in Chicago on May 24, 2008 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
The perfect scenario
would be to cut the losses with Kennedy, DFA him and have Oquendo and Skip work like mad to turn him into a 2nd baseman opening up a spot in the OF for Mather. Look at DeRosa for the Cubs, he can play 2nd and the outfield. There is no reason Skip can’t do this and be good at it.
Larussa will never do this, but I think it is an option that should be explored.
Skip talked about this
with Derrick Goold during spring training, IIRC. He joked that he hadn’t played second since high school or something. He thought it was a pretty ridiculous idea. I don’t think it’s going to happen.
by Red in Chicago on May 24, 2008 2:37 PM EDT up reply actions
I think Barton would be better at 2B. I don't know why I just have a gut feeling that kid looks like a 2b guy.
"Why does he keep saying that?"
Really?
Reminds me more of Chris Young.
A more ‘hands on’ hitting coach would probably tell Barton to stop lunging at the ball and to ‘stay back, use your feet to get to the ball and drive it’. Hal’s probably just telling him to be ‘more quiet’ at the plate.
by Hardcore Legend on May 24, 2008 2:20 PM EDT up reply actions
I start with the assumption
that Mather deserves his shot and that it’s time to see if he can help the big club. I didn’t vote, however, because the system doesn’t appear to allow for multiple or graded votes and a more nuanced response is needed. What I believe the Cardinals should have done is disabled Ankiel when his shoulder was injured and given Mather his first crack at the majors then, subject to a possible return to Memphis This nearly happened, but the Cardinals predictably chose to play with an even shorter bench than usual for nearly a week rather than keep the bench fully stocked and give Ankiel a little extra time to recuperate. Now that that opportunity has closed, my first choice would be to drop a relief pitcher, probably Springer (Dl if possible, otherwise release); he looks about done. I see no need for 12 pitchers, especially with young, strong arms in the bullpen like Perez and McClellan. Given the proclivities of Tony and Duncan, however, I know this course is highly unlikely. I would certainly explore a trade to secure Barton’s rights and allow for his optioning-he would play even less if Mather were recalled- but I would neither give a lot for him nor let him get away; he has the tools the Cardinals either should be retaining or converting into something else valuable via trade. I would certainly explore trading Duncan. With Ludwick’s and Ankiel’s development and the eventual advent of Rasmus-despite the latter’s current struggles-Duncan is looking increasingly out of place in the Cardinal outfield and more and more like an American League 1B-DH. I’m not quite ready to cut ties with Kennedy, but I expected a lot more from him than we’ve gotten, he seems to be reverting to his unsatisfactory 2007 form, and he may indeed be done. Ryan has nothing left to prove in the minors, and his hustle, speed, line-drive bat, and defensive prowess provide dimensions that the Cardinals need.
I do think, by the way, that Mather has the potential to provide some of the versatility that Spezio offered before he went off the deep end last year. Mather was signed as a shortstop and played quite a bit of third base during his years in the low minors;I suspect that he can occasionally fill in it at that position at least as well as Miles. He has also played a fair amount of first base and could probably fill in there better than Duncan, who is no defensive wizard in the infield either. Finally, he has a good arm for either of the corner outfield positions and has even played some centerfield at Memphis without embarrassing himself.
10% solution
although i agree kennedy is the weak link today, it’s hard to imagine there is any way out for him other than DFA. lots of companies writing off assets these days, and maybe that’s what the cards need to do. re barton, why not trade him? my understanding is that the team that took him would need to keep him on their 25 man roster all year, same as cards. if you really believe mather is more valuable, then you need to make room for mather by moving barton. his “potential value” as evidenced by cleveland’s reluctance to let him go suggests to me that he may be our most valuable trade chip among outfielders, i.e., most likely to generate a return higher than his current statistics suggest.
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
How bout trading Barton
I think the Cardinals would trade Barton for something than just drop him for nothing. I was doing some research on Rule 5 drafts. Did you guys know Johan Santana and Dan Uggla were both Rule 5’s?
I knew that.....
It just goes to show that what you think you see isn’t always what you are seeing. And players with limited tool kits just might have one or two tools in them that are so far superior that you must go and run with it…..Santana is still basically a two pitch pitcher and Uggla still has defensive liabilities. Both have proved that they are still better than anyone thought they would be, and way more useful than most baseball folks envisioned.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
You can't trade him
The Cards have to keep him on the 25-man roster all year or he reverts to Cleveland, with a couple of complications.
by Red in Chicago on May 24, 2008 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
No
Any player chosen in the Rule 5 draft may be traded to any team while under the Rule 5 restrictions, but the restrictions transfer to the new team. If the new team does not want to keep the player on its 25-man roster for the season, he must be offered back to the team of which he was a member when chosen in the draft.
by FlimtotheFlam on May 24, 2008 3:15 PM EDT up reply actions
Trade Barton
Interesting. Rather than just giving Barton back to the Indians, we can trade him to another team in need of cheap outfields with talent. A Barton / Reyes package?
If can can demonstrate to Cleveland that we have a potential trade in place for Barton, to a team that has a reasonable chance to keep him up all year, then Cleveland will become much more reasonable in their trade demands.
by so_cal_cards_fan on May 24, 2008 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Sounds good on paper.....except if I'm Cleveland, I don't have to be reasonable.
So I won’t. I already risked losing him, and I lost him. You keep him or give him back to me right now. That’s what Cleveland has said about Barton, and I see no reason to not believe them.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Here's the problem with trading Barton
it ignores what this team was supposed to be in the first place: a transition year. Trading a gifted young OF, with speed and a history of pop in his bat to make room for another young, gifted OF with pop in his bat doesn’t fit the model. It’s a sideways move. Yes, you improve the 2008 team for the month of June but you don’t improve the organization. In 2009 and 2010, you’d rather have Barton and Mather in the organization. So, it makes more sense to either cut the useless 2B we have or move one of the older OF’ers.
The problem now with moving Skippy is that when he isn’t in the lineup, LaRussa punishes us with terrible leadoff hitters.
Change comes slow for Old Man LaRussa. It took a month of Ludwick defying the odds playing in backwards platoon splits to finally get a starting gig. Kennedy will have to suck for another month, or Mozeliak will have to pry him from Tony’s kung-fu grip.
And even then, Mather will be punished. He wouldn’t get playing time because LaRussa doesn’t like to be told WHOM to use. If you replace Barton with Mather, Mather just goes right into Barton’s doghouse. He’d have to hit 10 bombs coming off the bench before LaRussa MIGHT take notice.
It’s just a lose/lose situation for the organization because they are in a rebuilding/transition process but chose a manager who wants to win now on his terms.
by Hardcore Legend on May 24, 2008 2:40 PM EDT reply actions
Compare the situation to Ludwick, circa May 2007
The Cardinals put P-Dub on the DL with what we considered a fake injury at the time, and Ludwick came up and started (and struggled) in his first five games. If Mather’s brought up, I don’t expect La Russa would hesitate to see what he’s got.
I believe that Juan was still on the DL
when Ludwick was called up.
Where is Mather going to find the ABs? He’d have to take Barton’s slot on the roster (if you are replacing him there) and those are nearly non-existent.
by Hardcore Legend on May 24, 2008 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
this is true
Juan started the season out with the knee or wrist or whatever, and then when Juan came back, the starting job was given to him. Luddy didn’t really have a starting job again until after Juan’s eye injury. in fact, it took something like 10 games after Juan’s injury for Luddy to get cemented in the every day role, despite the fact that he’d been very hot for almost 2 months at that point.
I was very angry about this at the time ;)
And I awoke in California, far far from Spancilhill...
You got me
And agreed that promoting Mather at Barton’s expense would be a short-sighted horizontal move.
I mostly agree, except that
it doesn’t look to me like TLR has any great love for Kennedy. I don’t think sending AK away would upset Tony in and of itself. Miles, on the other hand …
by MdRedbirdFreak on May 24, 2008 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
At least Miles is and has always been cost efficient. 1.4 Million is a bargain compared to Kennedy’s 3+, and his numbers are respectable for a platoon player
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on May 24, 2008 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Miles
I can totally see Tony liking Miles batting lead-off and playing 2b everyday. As much as I am not a fan of Miles being an everyday player, at this point he is a much better option than Kennedy.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
If
we give days off that don’t collide, that shouldn’t be much of a situation.
Ryan starts and Miles platoons him.
Iz starts and Ryan platoons him
Miles or Ryan can play 3rd, can doesn’t imply do it above average, but that takes care of the Glaus side of things.
However, that still puts a lot of weight on 3 players who
1 trends down as season goes along and heat is a factor
2 has an injury past
3 may not be able to handle the workload.
Ryan and Skip can platoon leading off, Miles can do what miles does – give days off, platoon against interleague and pitchers he’s dominated on in the past and pinch hit – with his experience on the bench, that’s a service worth mentioning.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on May 24, 2008 9:26 PM EDT up reply actions
uh yeah
I wasn’t saying I think Miles should start, I just think that would be Tony’s mindset if AK was gone. Can anyone see Tony actually giving the starting job to Ryan over Miles (even if it would be the wise thing to do)?
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
what did happen to Scarlet?
i voted for trade them, trade them all!
truthfully, i have no idea what to do. DL’ing AK or sending DUNK down the Memphis for a few weeks might be the move. but what about Barton? from where i set, the dude isn’t living up to the hype. he looks over matched with a bat in his hands, or as liam & HL said last night he looks slow because of his lack of playing time.. either way, i am not convinced he deserves a place on the 25 man roster right now. but the Cards are stuck with him. they cant try a trade because he wont clear wavers, he’ll be picked up by a struggling team like the Padres. so, what do they do?
hell i don’t know. that’s why they pay MO the bigs bucks, while i’m not currently on the pay roll.
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
Play him
that was the reasoning used when Ankiel and Duncan were sucking awful. They got starts because they had to ‘work their way’ out of their slumps. So start Barton for 4 straight games or 5 out of 7.
Of course, that won’t happen. From what we’ve heard, he works as hard as anyone (or more) in the cage before the games or after the games trying to get his swing going.
by Hardcore Legend on May 24, 2008 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
OK, so he's the starting LF every day
would Rick & LUD be your every day CF & RF then with Skippy & DUNK on the bench?
right now, how can you start Barton over Skippy every day?
I'm going to go try to find a puppy and kick it. - Brad Thompson AND THAT'S A WINNER!
Skip went 77 PA at the end of April/Beginning of May
starting 15 of 20 games while batting .222 with a .565 OPS. You may say, that’s a random pick of PA to choose for Skippy and I’d agree. It was his second worst stretch of the season. But, the thing is, he was penciled in as the starter while he was sucking this team down as it’s leadoff hitter.
Brian Barton only HAS 84 PA this year.
This stretch I outlined of Skippy’s ended just 6 days ago. They gave him 20 games to ‘right’ himself as an OF starter based on what, his 1st 50 ABs?
by Hardcore Legend on May 24, 2008 4:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
you let Barton take most of Skips playing time for awhile, if only just to see what he can do. Barton can not be any more of a drag on the line-up than AK.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
Well, if they are concerned about the present, go ahead and give Mr. Barton back.
If they are concerned about the future, then work with him, and by that I mean play him with all of the ups and downs that involves so you can get a clearer indication of what he brings to the team. Small sample size and erratic playing time hasn’t really made clear what you have in him IMO.
They knew he never played but a few games above AAA when they drafted him. If they weren’t going to commit to the whole year, they should have simply not drafted him at all.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
I meant to say "a few games above AA" -Mr. Barton has never been in the majors before this year.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
I say we keep Barton where he is and be
patient. I still don’t believe Skip is a very good hitter and that will become abundantly clear if he actually stays on pace to get 500-plus PAs. Sooner or later we’ll see the true Skip and so will TLR.
by MdRedbirdFreak on May 24, 2008 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh oh
Just read that Duncan is 4-7 against Brad Penny. If he starts tonight over Ludwick I’m gonna break something.
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
I don't care about your fantasy team.
Tony already Skip is starting on Saturday and Sunday
so, it comes down to
Ludwick
Ankiel
DuncanBarton
for those final 2 spots. Ankiel will start, because he is this teams starting CF. That leaves, as you say, Ludwick and Duncan. I’d bet on Duncan.
by Hardcore Legend on May 24, 2008 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd go all-lefty
Although who knows how long Penny will last. Put up a big lead and chase Penny after three or so, I’d like to see Barton in left for the mop-up work.
Isn't a way in hell he is sitting Ludwick down
against Pennie, a fastball pitcher. Long balls win todays game.
Westcoastbirdwatcher
by westcoastbirdwatcher on May 24, 2008 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
that is the logical thing to do
If we have learned anything, these line-ups are hardly ever logical.
* sarcasm might be involved in this comment
I say take the crowbar to Barton
then we can put him on the DL and use his 30 day rehab to give Mather 45 days to figure out if he is ready
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
hopefully not a real crowbar!
when simple “hand laceration” (cut) will get the job done!
Haha… I do like the solution though.
"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."
Just went with crowbar because it was stuck in my head from the Kennedy idea
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
lol
I just saw the original post changed He meant pry with a crowbar; I think everyone else (myself included) were thinking clubbing him with it.
"Give a man a fire, and he’ll be warm for a night. Set him on fire and he’ll be warm for the rest of his life."
pry, whack, bludgeon...all good enough
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
That would just delay his Rule 5 rights
we’d have to carry him on the big league club STILL for 90 days combined, either this year or next.
by Hardcore Legend on May 24, 2008 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
and not to mention
it still leaves us with the opportunity for LaRussa to pencil in Adam Kennedy as the starting 2B for no damn good reason.
by Hardcore Legend on May 24, 2008 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
and we could still take the crowbar to Kennedy
and use his roster spot for someone or something useful
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
True, he is closing in on being up for 60 days...
We can say he keeps having setbacks until the September call-ups. Unless Mather struggles, then Barton is magically healthy again. It’s not like our doctors don’t screw stuff up anyway.
The only one who liked the Cardinals so much he became a St. Louis Cardinals football fan.
Ryan is not a very good 3b, though...
If that’s his main role on the team, might as well dump him for Mather, since he’s not a very good third basemen.
Might as well have a bad fielding 3b that can hit for power
Start Ludwick
Lets Trade Kennedy
For 10 Prairie Sticks Maple Bats, double-dipped black, 34-inch, C243 style.
Yadi is my hero
that's the highball offer
we’ll settle for a bag of balls.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
that my friend...
has made me laugh more today than anything combined on the board has done for probably the last two weeks. On a side note i don’t suppose there is a team out there willing to take duncan, kennedy, and reyes off of our hands in one fell swoop, is there? Possibly the nats? for say I don’t know Guzman lol (pipe dreams).
God
I hope it doesn’t take that much to get Guzman. He isn’t worth Reyes or Duncan
by FlimtotheFlam on May 24, 2008 4:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I know i was just pretty much
hoping to dump all of them off the 25 or 40 man (in reyes’ case he just needs the change of scenery now) roster and make room for others. If I was more familiar with other teams prospects I would try to find a different scenario. I just pulled guzman out of my arse really. The ideal situation is to package duncan & reyes for a good not great mi prospect that has potential to play 2b with a little thump out of the 7 hole or strong obp and doubles power out of the 2 hole. Hoffpauir doesn’t quite seem to be an everyday 2b at this point. Perhaps if you can find someone else serviceable for 2nd you could then package kennedy to pick up a warm body a of aa body (highly unlikely). In the long run i think i like the idea of trying to convert skip to play 2b (provided he maintains his ability to hit leadoff) over the winter / spring next year and have an 09 outfield of ludwick / rasmus / ankiel / mather / stavinoha or barton.
line-up to look like?
schumaker
rasmus
pujols
ludwick
glaus
ankiel
molina
wainwright
ryan
and that would give you a fair amount of flexibility on the bench with mather able to play 1st / 3rd of corners, ryan playing anywhere on the infield except 1st. stavinoha able to play first in a inch behind pujols and mather. Ideally as well your mi prospect you pick up in trade would be fighting for a spot on the roster possibly making schu expendable or keeping ryan as a super infield back-up picking up a decent number of at bats in the 9 hole.
Throw in their nifty little righty reliever Saul Rivera too while you're at it.......
I like watching him work….he’s fun.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
Clayton Kershaw starts tomorrow
apologies if this was already posted somewhere…
I have a love/hate relationship with the Cardinals' middle relief corps.
barton vs ??
when i suggested trading barton and giving mather a chance, it was in the context of getting rid of kennedy somehow. i see the marlins a bit, and it seems that there is likely a basis of discussion focused on uggla on their side and barton and ?? (thompson, reyes, Kennedy ( i wish), ???) on our side. even ryan could go if one was happy with iz2 and uggla’s combined defense. mather gives us the infield/outfield sub we need, ie, we don’t need 5 guys who are exclusively outfielders, which is basically what we have now. this also provides a way to get more at bats than we can mange for barton. barton is not doing the team any good in his current situation, and barton himself is stalled in his development as a result.
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, perhaps you haven't grasped the situation!
Blocked Prospects
I have been trying to find blocked prospects and this is probably the best one I found. Mike Aviles for the Royals is a 2B playing in AAA banging on the door. He was their minor league of the year last year and posting a .964 OPS down in AAA. Now I don’t see the Royals giving him up but Grudz seems very tradeable. I sure would like him back instead of AK. Now if July comes around and AK is still stinking and we look like we can make a playoff run. Why in the world would we not make this trade?
how about trade duncan and give kennedy his papers
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 24, 2008 6:29 PM EDT reply actions
Success screws prospects; changes season start plans.
That’s my contention.
When we started this year we were hearing the mantra “results oriented platoon”, “transition year”. We had that as a constant starting the year, but as April turned to May that seemed less and less like the tune we were hearing.
Our platoon, or lack thereof is what’s stunted Barton out. Losing 1 or 2 at bats per game due to being subbed out, or coming in and PH isn’t going to help him out at all. He could have learned quite a bit on those last two (or one) AB. And with someone with such limited MLB at bats, having them in a PH role is asking for disaster.
It didn’t have to be this way, but it’s how it’s came about. Skip while now back to a solid swing had a very dismal start to May that corresponded to his dismal start to April. In April he was platooned back when he was struggling, in May… he’s left in. Barton had a case for a few games there.
Duncan’s loss of power may be made up by his batting eye, but when Barton was swinging a solid bat, the sheer idea that any time the starter is a RHP we start Duncan isn’t really a plan of action. Barton could have used some games there.
Even when Rick was slumping Barton had a case for going in and shifting Skip to center. It feels as soon as Barton made that one bad throw a few weeks back… he’s been little to none.
My question is, I’d love to see Mather. However, how much would Mather actually get to play if he comes up? Bonus question – would limited time actually do a “Barton” to Mather as well? I think you can make a case that we could stunt Mather’s production if he comes up and plays as much as Barton does.
I’d much rather see Mather build on his May through June as we head towards trade deadline. Then if we can create an environment where Mather will get reasonable playing time.. bring him up.
Dropping a MI to gain Mather is a great idea if you overlook the platoon situation, but the facts of the situation trends that we could have two “Bartons” through the second half of the season. That’s neither good for us as fans, us as a ball club, nor is it fair to those two as players.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on May 24, 2008 6:50 PM EDT reply actions
Another thing on the platoon
Ok, we deal with Skip’s funk to get him to get to a solid bat. It comes about. He’s on a tear in San Diego. We have a day off, what do we do? We sit Skip. So the guy who’s had the most recent history of a funk gets out of it and now he’s going to be off 3 out of 5 days? That’s guaranteed to help how?
Rick’s coming back from a stint of not playing, so I can see him in. Ludwick is the hot power stroke, he’s in. But there’s the whole why was Duncan in? “Because we’re facing a RHP.”
Results. Based. Platoon.
Sigh
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on May 24, 2008 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I'd like to preface by saying
red baron, yours posts always make me feel warm and bubbly inside. Please keep up as a poster here, because your style is absolutely awesome.
Secondly, I’d really like to see us trade an outfielder. Most notably, I’d like to see us trade Duncan. I realize the guy can hit and his Dave’s son, but both he and we know that he’d fare better on a team as a first baseman or DH. He’s not even really young anymore and I’m sure we could get a solid prospect or two in return. We don’t have room for all of these outfielders—we need to sell high!
On with the (good) youth movement!
sell high?
duncan’s been in a slump since halfway through last year. you’d be lucky to get a mid-level prospect back for him.
by stlcardinalsfang on May 24, 2008 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, thank you so much, aet.
However, I must admit some concern over your ‘warm and bubbly’ comment. You may want to get that checked out. You haven’t been cooking chicken to medium rare or anything, have you?
All your failures are just training grounds.
by the red baron on May 24, 2008 9:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Unfortunately, the only candidates to be "sold high"
are Mather and Ludwick—maybe Schu. Hobbs is having a “normal” season and Dunc and (perish the thought) Rasmus are subpar. And anyone who wants to trade Studwick right now had better be prepared to fend off a mob. So what unfortunate conclusion follows here?....
Trade or give away Duncan
Seriously his numbers just look bad, and then you realize he never sees lefties so it’s even worse. There aren’t many guys playing in the majors right now who can’t hit at least .260 against LHP or RHP.
God he’s bad, and yet we bench Skip coming off a 4-4 game so that he can go hitless the next. Skip replaces him and reaches base…..
I know the Duncan hate is old, but to me the Duncan support is even older. So if I have to deal with him getting AB’s and keeping Mather out of the majors than you have to deal with my spite.
Damn Pirates
Just gave up the lead to the small bears!
And Detroit is the scariest 8 games under .500 I’ve ever seen. Beating the Twins to a pulp
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on May 24, 2008 9:29 PM EDT reply actions
EUREKA!!! MOVE GLAUS TO SHORT AND PUT THIS GUY AT THIRD!!!!!
I just remembered that Glaus played like ~15 games at short for the Jays in 2006, and he did fairly well at it!
why not do the reverse of the red baron's suggestion with barton
and trade him back to Cleveland? If we promote mather and he works as a right handed corner outfielder, do we need barton, really? we have a lot of leadoff-#2 type hitters. Miles, Ryan, Schumaker, Kennedy, Izturis all have decent obp. Barton is nice and speedy, but not a monster in any other way.
Put Kennedy on the DL temporarily. Let Mather get some swings. If he can hit ML pitching, trade Barton back to Cleveland for whatever we can get.
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