Is a pitcher who gets poor run support unlucky?
I don’t really know if anyone much cares about this topic, but it is one that I have felt an important one for many years. Why is it that some guys always seem to be “tough luck” losers in tight games and some guys seem to be the “lucky” beneficiaries of scoring largesse? I am certain that luck actually does have some role in the phenomenon, much in the same way Mike Shannon always says Bob Gibson was the luckiest pitcher he ever saw. After all, Gibson always had the good fortune to pitch on the days the other team didn’t score many runs. Seriously, there is some luck in who the pitcher pitches against, how hot an opposing team is at a given point in time, how hot his team might be and so on.
Nevertheless, I have always held the completely unsubstantiated belief that pitchers who held the opponent down early in the game were more likely to get the opportunity to pitch with a big lead. In general, a pitcher with a lead can be a more confident and aggressive pitcher who should generally perform more effectively. Conversely, a lineup that is always playing catch up has to battle a more aggressive and confident opposing pitcher.
So, I decided to do another one of my not particularly scientific, sort of small sample size, analyses in the hope of learning a little something and stimulating some discussion. All I did was look at the 2007 starting rotation, specifically Wainer, Looper, Wells, and Reyes to determine in which part of the game they surrendered the most runs. Then I looked to see if I could find any correlation with run support. I thought about including WonderBrad as well, but less than half his appearances were starts and I couldn’t find a way (or at least one not too time consuming) to separate out his data.
I looked at each inning, but the primary determinant I used was how many runs were allowed in the first three innings versus how many runs were allowed in innings four through six. I must admit that I am using total runs allowed, as the fine statistics at baseball-reference.com only give total runs allowed in the inning-by-inning splits. What I came up with was pleasing to me as it fit my pre-conceived notions nicely. It remains to be seen whether that means much, but I will leave it up to the community to argue that point.
Here is the data:
Pitcher Run Support Runs 1-3 Runs 4-6
Wainer 4.92 3.66 4.17
Looper 4.79 4.60 4.73
Wells 3.55 5.01 7.09
Reyes 3.32 7.79 4.60
Let me explains the runs numbers above. I took the total number of runs allowed in each inning, divided by the number of times that particular pitcher pitched in that inning, and then multiplied the quotient by 9. The intent is to give it the look and feel of an ERA for familiarity’s sake, but it counts all runs allowed and doesn’t take into account partial innings as that data was not available to me.
It looks like a pretty clear conclusion for this dataset was that there was a strong inverse correlation between runs allowed in innings 1-3 and run support. I can’t really explain the big delta in run support between Looper and Wells as their numbers are pretty similar. In fact if you look at Wells numbers through the fourth inning, they are nearly identical to Looper’s. It might have something to do with Wells runs allowed number in the fifth of 11.88 (the single worst inning of all starters). Like I said this post is designed to promote discussion, so please feel free to chime in if you have an informed opinion.
Interestingly enough, Reyes got a big fat zero for run support in six of his 20 starts (30%) and Wells got a goose egg in four of 26 (16.67%). Wainer got at least one run to work with in every one of his 32 starts and Looper was only shutout in one of 30.
A final tidbit from looking at this years numbers: the starters are getting over half a run better support (4.85 v 4.26) and have much, much better numbers over the first three innings. The 2007 squad had a runs allowed average of 5.01 over the first three innings (or 1.67 per game) while the 2008 squad has allowed an average of 3.50 runs over the first three inning (or 1.17 per game). The difference is particularly pronounced in the first two innings with the 2007 staff averaging 1.14 runs per game and the 2008 staff at an impeccable .56.
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It is a good topic
for discussion as it does seem some guys are unlucky and other guys like vicente padilla (6-2 but the proud owner of a 1.4 whip) keep getting wins.
this definately brings to mind AReyes 1 hitter against the white sox and he got a loss, talk about crappy luck.
by lopey986 on May 22, 2008 4:29 AM EDT 0 recs
hah
funny i mention padilla and today the rangers post 4 runs in the first inning behind him.
by lopey986 on
May 22, 2008 1:45 PM EDT
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A related view
Giveml’s post focuses on the effect of GIVING UP runs early, and how that leads to poor run support from a pitcher’s own team. I think his conclusions are pretty good.
Here’s another angle on “run support” that I’ve not seen developed too much. If anyone has seen an article on this please let me know.
I have always believed that “run support” must be qualified in a way that nobody ever does (until giveml’s post here). Simply, WHEN your team scores runs for you is almost as important as HOW MANY runs your team scores for you. This is never mentioned when people talk about the run support a pitcher received over the course of a season.
Example -
Scenario 1. The Cards score 6 runs in the first inning, and Lohse is able to challenge hitters, pitch inteligently (i.e. let them hit it, no waks) and ride out a rough inning, allowing himself to get back on track after giving up maybe 2-3 runs. Lohse goes 7 and we all say – “Easy win for Lohse.”
Scenario 2 – Lohse is locked in an intense 0-0 duel with the opposing pitcher. The Cards mount a rally in the 7th, Lohse is lifted for a PH, and after a big inning they lead 6-0. The next day (and at the end of the season) that reads “6 runs of support for Lohse.” We all say, “he gets good run support so don’t look to favorably on his W totals”
Obviously, most outings fall somwhere between the two I suggested, but it’s just something to chew on….
Obviously, the 6 runs in scenario 2 did not make that game “easy” for Lohse.
by Hal Lanier's Pants on May 22, 2008 12:42 PM EDT 0 recs
Case in point this year...
Aaron Harang—3.12 ERA; 1.14 WHIP; 56 K’s; and he’s 2-5!!!
He’s lost games 3-1, 3-0, 4-2, 4-1, 4-3…
He’s single handedly killing my fantasy win total in the traditional 5X5 league, and he’s my best pitcher in my dynasty league that doesn’t count wins—we count quality starts instead.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on May 22, 2008 3:52 PM EDT 0 recs
For those wondering..
He has 10 starts this season—8 of them are quality starts, and in only two of them has he pitched fewer than 7 innings.
Contrast him with Brandon Webb who is 9-1—he has 10 starts, 9 of which are quality starts he has the same number of K’s, a 2.69 WHIP and a 0.98 ERA. He’s the front runner for the Cy Young, but only has one more quality start than Harang, who doesn’t even have a winning record…which is why Wins is the most worthless stat in all of baseball.
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
May 22, 2008 3:57 PM EDT
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I don't know that wins are the most overrated but maybe
the Quality start is more important giving that tea a “chance” to win?
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on
May 22, 2008 6:18 PM EDT
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team
I can't believe i gave up a homerun to that punch and judy hitter-major league 2
by punchinjudy on
May 22, 2008 6:19 PM EDT
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I understand the point about W-L, but ...
I hate the “quality start” designation. It indicates that a 4.50 ERA is good enough to be considered a good pitcher. Ironically, nobody clamors about signing big money to a 4.50 ERA free agent SP. The standard should be raised to bring the ERA down to 3.5 – 4.0 for a “quality start” in my opinion. Did your SP really “keep you in it” if your offense is being asked to score 5 runs per game?
I’m not smart enough to add a link, yet; but this article defines the problem.
http://www.hardballtimes.com/main/article/runs-per-game/
While the average runs per game was 4.82 from 2000-2004, the most frequent runs scored were 3 (13.4%). The average gets skewed by much less frequent blowouts.
So, if my pitcher isn’t keeping within the 2-4 runs that accounted for 38.4% of games, then how in the world do I count that as a “quality start.”
Sorry, about the tirade. The original topic is a good one, but I think I will try to hypothesize some other factors that might be coming in to play. Thanks, giveml.
by etp_stl on
May 24, 2008 9:14 AM EDT
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Harangutan
Harang is a beast. 200+ innings the past 3 years. On track to do it again.
Wins are a pretty weak stat, and unfortunately they are very important in fantasy baseball.
by cd on
May 23, 2008 10:39 AM EDT
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I like wins in Fantasy Baseball
Not a measure of how good the pitcher is, but I think it adds a certain complexity to the draft (thinking about “how good a pitcher’s team is”). It’s kind of the same as RBI’s and Runs
by duncans_army on
May 23, 2008 10:15 PM EDT
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Aaron Harang is one of my favorite pitchers. He's really good, too. I even picked him as the Cy Young winner for the NL in 2008.
And last year, Adam Eaton of the Phillies had a .500 record and ghastly peripherals. W-L record in no way gives a complete picture of a pitchers worth. And don’t even get me started on the many cheap wins that relief pitchers end up with….
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on
May 22, 2008 6:37 PM EDT
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especially considering
that they can grab a win for 1/3 of an inning of work, but a starter who pitches 4 innings and leaves the game up 13-0 won’t get a win because he didn’t go five innings—what kind of ridiculous crap is that?
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
May 23, 2008 11:26 AM EDT
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And the original post about being unlucky.....I would say Harang has been very unlucky this year,
and Adam Eaton was extremely lucky last season. He did not win because he pitched well, because he rarely pitched well. Stay on the mound for 5 innings was a more accurate description of what he did. The Phillies lineup is filled with beasts with bats and they carried him.
She isn't crazy, she's just not impressed.
by jillsinmo on
May 23, 2008 5:19 PM EDT
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+1
Harang has absolutely been unlucky so far, at least as far as my theory goes. His runs allowed have been pretty evenly distributed, just not getting any support at 3.35 runs per game. He got 5.15 last year.
Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...
by giveml on May 23, 2008 7:17 PM EDT 0 recs











