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Yadi's Defensive Prowess

I want to preface this post by saying that Yadi is one of my favorite Cardinals and I am happy to see him doing well this season. I think many posters share my warm feelings for the youngest of the catching Molinas. 

 

However, I like to keep as objective an outlook as possible on my favorite players and I have read some comments recently regarding Yadi’s defensive prowess that made me wonder just how quantifiable that contribution really is.  My intent here is to aggregate some data and draw some conclusions where there seem to be some obvious points.  That being said, my fervent hope is this post will generate some interesting discussion and possibly some additional data. 

 

Most of my concerns around Yadi’s value are based on his bat and his legs.  There seems to be a fairly universal opinion that his defensive contributions at least atone for his lack of offensive production, and many would say his defense far outweighs any offensive shortcomings.  I have always been of the opinion that his defense makes him a valuable player so long as his OPS+ can stay around 85-90 (85 last year and currently 104 for 2008). 

 

I decided to limit my analysis to the results by catcher for the six starting pitchers in 2007 who had 10 or more starts:  Wainwright, Looper, Wells, Reyes, Pineiro, and Colonel Welley.  Both the colonel’s data and Wells include starts as well as relief appearances, but I don’t think any of the others relieved in 2007.  Please correct me if I am wrong. 

 

I only had a limited amount of time to gather data, but I would welcome any additional input on either the current season or Yadi’s entire career.  All data are from baseball-reference.com.  I wish I had some additional information like day v. night, home v. road, opponent, etc., but we will have to make do with the readily available data.

 

To refresh everyone’s memory, the other catchers for 2007 were Gary Bennett and Kelly Stinnett.  I am sorry to bring up the memory of Kelly Stinett, but sometimes we endure painful memories in order to advance our understanding of the game.  I will apologize in advance for HTML ignorance, but hopefully the data will format well enough to be useful.  The opponents’ aggregate hitting line for the three catchers (vs. starters only) for 2007 was:

 

Bennett .270/.324/.414 for an OPS of .737

Molina .267/.333/.435 for an OPS of .768

Stinnett .277/.370/.431 for an OPS of .801

 

I will leave it to the more sophisticated to expound on the statistical significance of the above variation.  Overall, Bennett’s numbers look a little better, but it made me wonder if there was any variation due to the spread of the workload amongst the various starters.  Here is the breakdown by percentage of plate appearances against the given pitcher:

 

Wainer             67% Molina, 33% Bennett

Looper             68% Molina, 25% Bennett, 6% Stinnett

Wells                67% Molina, 15% Bennett, 18% Stinnett

Reyes               51% Molina, 40% Bennett, 9% Stinnett

Pineiro              90% Molina, 0% Bennett, 10% Stinnett

Wellemeyer      27% Molina, 27% Bennett, 46% Stinnett

 

The overall opponents’ aggregate hitting line for the pitchers in question was:

 

 

Wellemeyer      .224/.310/.353/.664

Wainer             .269/.331/.338/.719

Looper             .269/.332/.432/.753

Reyes               .261/.330/.464/.794

Pineiro              .279/.313/.490/.803

Wells                .287/.371/.460/.831

 

Since this is my fanpost, I get to make the somewhat arbitrary determination that OPS is the primary metric to consider.  After all, that is how I evaluate a hitter, so it seems reasonable to use the same metric to evaluate the effectiveness of pitchers.  Had anyone looked at these numbers at the conclusion of last season that would have been astounded at Wellemeyer’s clear superiority over the other starters in this regard.  I know this will be somewhat circular, but let’s take a look at whether the mix of pitchers a particular catcher caught might have some effect on the numbers. 

 

Wellemeyer was by the far the best, but he was caught a disproportionate amount of times by Stinnett and Stinnett had the worst overall numbers.  So let’s use that as one more reason to eliminate Stinnett from the mix.  Incidentally, only one catcher had an opponent’s OPS over .864 and that was Stinett (twice) with an OPS of 1.064 when catching Reyes and a whopping 1.228 when catching Looper.  Now the comparison comes down to Yadi vs. Bennett. 

 

Bennett primarily caught Wainer, Looper, and Reyes with only 112 PAs catching Wells (the worst pitcher) and 72 PAs catching Welley (the best pitcher).  So there doesn’t appear to be any real advantage to Bennett in the assignment of starters.  Yadi primarily caught Wainer, Looper, and Wells, so maybe he gets a little break from having to absorb 501 PAs of the Kipster (by the way has any other MLB team every had both a Kip and a Skip on the same roster?).  Wells did perform marginally better for Bennett with the primary difference being fewer walks – one every 8.5 hitters when Yadi was catching and one every 22.4 hitters when Bennett was behind the plate.

 

When Wainer pitched he seemed to perform pretty consistently irrespective of who was behind the plate.  Looper was very good with Molina behind the plate, .237/.294/.383/.677 and struggled with Bennett at .324/.364/.474/.838.  I sure wish I had the day/night split on Looper by catcher as he was one of the best in MLB in day games.  Iron Bill fared much better with Bennett, .238/.321/.378/.699, than with Yadi at .257/.326/.509/836 with the primary difference being that he was twice as likely to throw a gopher ball with Yadi calling the pitches.  Bennett didn’t catch any of Pineiro’s games and did far better with Wellemeyer.  Bennett’s splits with the Colonel were a stellar .206/.286/.302/.587 compared to .242/.329/.468/.797 with Yadi.  In fairness to Yadi it appears that he mostly caught Welley out of the ‘pen as he only caught 73 PAs in 9 games.

 

It is also interesting to note that starters combined to allow significantly more walks, more HRs and record more strikeouts when Yadi was behind the plate. I don’t know how significant the numbers are, but the biggest difference seems to be in HRs allowed.  When Yadi caught the opposition hit a HR every 35.9 PAs, but only once every 44.6 for Bennett.  This is even more pronounced for all the pitchers not named Wainwright as the Yadi’s number is 29.5 compared to 43 for Bennett. 

 

One final area to address that probably underscores Yadi’s value more than any other measure I could find:  the running game.  As many of you may recall, Bennett was particularly inept at throwing out baserunners and only caught 1 of 19 in this group for a success rate of 5.26% while Yadi gunned down 16 of 32 or 50%.  What does that mean about overall success and, in particular, runs scored?  After all, the only real statistics that matter are wins and losses, so runs allowed trumps all other numbers.  Yadi was pretty superior in this regard as his pitchers allowed .117 runs per plate appearance while Bennett’s pitchers allowed .130 runs per plate appearance.    If you average 40 PAs per game that means a difference of about .5 runs per game, or 4.68 for Yadi and 5.2 for Bennett.

 

In summary, there are a few things you can probably (somewhat tentatively) conclude from all this:  1)  Yadi probably was not any better than Gary Bennett in getting his pitchers to throw strikes, or limit baserunners;  2)  Pitchers not named Wainwright throwing to Yadi were about 50% more likely to give up a home run; 3)  Yadi’s primary defensive skills, at least in comparison to Bennett, seems to be to both record outs and limit bases in the running game.  If you were comparing Yadi to a major league regular who would likely throw out somewhere in the vicinity of 30% of attempted base thieves, then you would expect this advantage to be less.

 

Like I said in the introduction, my primary purpose here is to promote discussion and possibly encourage further study of this topic.  I still love Yadi, but he has to continue to hit well to be a plus player. 

 

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I'm sure

Mike Maroth made more than ten starts last year, and you forgot him.

Unless you did on purpose, which I definitely condone.

by Phizzle on May 16, 2008 4:00 PM EDT   0 recs

Good work, giveml

Baseball prospectus and other researchers have never found any evidence that a catcher has a repeatable ability to improve the performance of his pitchers as your investigation concludes. The defensive value in a catcher does involve (or can involve) his ability to prevent wild pitches and passed balls and, of course, his impact on the running game. Clearly, this last area is what distinguishes Molina from the other catchers in baseball.

That said, I agree that he does have to hit SOME in order to justify his position and it appears that he has turned a corner with his hitting. I’m a Yadi fan as well but I think some get carried away in their exultations about the value he brings to the ballclub. A great offensive catcher has more of an impact on the game than a great defensive catcher—proclamations about a catcher’s ability to call a game notwithstanding. Even so, with Molina’s ability to eliminate opposition baserunners, and an ability to take a walk and hit w/ a little power, he is one of the best catchers in the NL.

by houstoncardinal on May 16, 2008 6:17 PM EDT   0 recs

Agreed

I’ll never look for Molina to be a batting champ, but as long as he puts the ball in play, I won’t look for a liability. I don’t know how it’s trended, but this year his K/AB is really impressive.

I’m looking at a guy who’s 25, one of the best at his game from a defensive standpoint, and even calling standpoint. And may improve going into his prime on an offensive standpoint.

And while his numbers were lethargic in 2006, those post season numbers were very, very impressive regardless. Gotta love postseason Yadi, now let’s get there so we can enjoy some more.

I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang

by AdjustedExpectations on May 16, 2008 6:47 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

but it still kind of doesn't make sense

the catcher is the one choosing the locations and pitches and sequencing. Shouldn’t that have some effect on the pitchers’ performance?

the numbers show that it kind of dosent, but that really does strike me as bizarre.

They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...

by Valatan on May 16, 2008 7:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

For the Cardinals you could really say

Dunc is calling the pitches. As much game planning as the Cards do, with attack plans for each hitter, the catchers on staff ought to be pretty much on the same wavelength. I don’t think they actually call many pitches from the dugout, but the plan that dictates the pitch calls certainly comes from Dunc’s notebook.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on May 16, 2008 9:13 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Depends...

If the backup catchers are calling the same game, then there should be no drop off in pitchers preformance.

by Evilfrog on May 17, 2008 12:16 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed

The inability to detect a difference may say as much about the detection methods as anything. Absence of proof is not proof of absence.

And, as someone else has already pointed out, the influence of pitching coaches/managers on the signal calling is a potential confounding factor. I remember looking thru one of the assessments of differences among catchers and thinking it was not very compelling…can’t remember which one, though.

by siddfynch on May 20, 2008 1:30 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

yeah

but how many great offensive catchers are there? not too many

Ankiel is Jesus!

by Cards Fan in Chitown on May 22, 2008 3:36 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

According to Bruce Regal of The Baseball Analysts

MLB catcher average OPS is consistently about 96% of the overall MLB OPS and has averaged .724 since 1993. Yadi’s best OPS for a full season was last year’s .715 and his career number is .663. The good news is that so far this year he is at .752 which would be outstanding. The bad news is he is on pace for career highs in stolen bases allowed, wild pitches allowed, passed balls, and errors. The good bet is that his defense will rebound and his offense will regress.

I would be very pleased with Yadi if he can put up a MLB average OPS and get his defensive game back to his usual standards. That being said, there is no question that prior to 2007 his offensive deficiencies outweighed his defensive contributions.

I think it is a good combination that his knee seems to be fine and he has his weight down. At 25 years old, he should continue to improve. In spite of being a Texas League all-star last year, Bryan Anderson’s OPS for 2007 was only .738. The kid needs to show some more pop and take some walks to be taken seriously. Now, if he can maintain the .937 OPS he started the season with in Springfield (not that I expect him to) then Yadi will need to be looking over his shoulder.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on May 22, 2008 9:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

interesting post

This is the kind of analysises that might produce some evidence and I commend the research. But, I think these kinds of analysises can only give so much information about a catcher’s impact. I think the most notable difficulty is the disparity in sample size. I don’t think Bennet/Stinnett’s numbers are enough to control for opponents or a particular player’s “hot streak” (especially since most of their playing time last year came in a 2/3 week stretch of time when Yadi was on the DL.

I agree with you that the bottom line should be run suppression, but the above comments still apply. Run suppression seems to me to be the only thing that can take into account all the effects a catcher has on a game – but then it probably also has too many conflating variables to draw too many conclusions (like the rest of the defense behind the pitcher).

one thing to remember about Yadi’s suppression of the running game is that so few people run on him. For instance, compare the number of attempts against Yadi v. the number against Bennett, then look at their playing time.

by fltfire on May 17, 2008 11:54 PM EDT   0 recs

since I would have to get

in a long line to say positive things about Yadi’s defense (most of which I agree with, especially his suppression of the other team’s running game) I will instead use my space to report why he annoys me. Or maybe “concerns me” is better put.
It is his frequent tendency to bounce up and down and left and right behind the plate, like a combination jumping bean pogo stick. Especially when he does it right before or even AS the pitcher is delivering his throw.
I realize I am old school because of my age, and I am a hapless adherent to the way I was taught to play the game… but if it annoys me watching it on TV, I have to think it may have some impact on the pitcher’s concentration, too

by the Tewk on May 18, 2008 1:03 AM EDT   0 recs

Perhaps

“pogo bean” or just “pogo” could be our nickname for Yadi?

by MdRedbirdFreak on May 19, 2008 4:49 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

The Puerto Rican Pogo?

So, I’m late. I was camping when this was posted.

by mynameistyler on May 22, 2008 8:35 AM EDT to parent up   0 recs

A level field of comparison

In 2007, Molina played 861 innings as a catcher. He allowed 7 passed balls (PB) and 23 stolen bases (SB), as noted above. Kelly Stinnett played about one-fourth of what Yadi did, 203 innings, while allowing 1 PB and 11 SB. Gary Bennett played 370 innings as catcher, allowing 2 PB and 24 SB.

Molina ‘07

PB per 9 innings: .073
SB per 9 innings: .240

Molina Career

PB/9: .071
SB/9: .257

Bennett ‘07

PB per 9 innings: .049
SB per 9 innings: .583

Bennett Career

PB/9: .064
SB/9: .547

Stinnett ‘07

PB per 9 innings: .044
SB per 9 innings: .488

Stinnett Career

PB/9: .061
SB/9: ..735

What is interesting to me is how much more often stolen bases occur than past balls. Both Bennett and Stinnett were (in ‘07) and have been (over their careers) more adept at blocking and disallowing passed balls. However, Yadi allows about half as many stolen bases per nine innings, which is very impressive.

Any suggestions on possible historical comparisons for stolen bases allowed per 9 innings?

by bgh on May 20, 2008 8:07 PM EDT   0 recs

also curious about wild pitches

WPs allowed should be a better measure of the ability to block balls as most passed balls are not, by definition, in the dirt. One would think that a catcher who could excel at saving pitchers WPs would be very valuable to those pitchers and the team.

I hope the Cardinals/Yadi return to their historical rate of nailing baserunners soon.

Those Pilgrims ain't lookin' so proud now...

by giveml on May 20, 2008 9:17 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

Extra bases allows

Given the increase in probability of scoring as a runner advances 90 feet, I almost think that we should just lump together WP’s, PB’s, and SB’s into one “extra bases allowed” stat and do it per 9 innings. That would tell us how helpful a catcher is in preventing the opposition from taking the extra base.

by bgh on May 21, 2008 5:30 PM EDT to parent up   0 recs

I have to ask

What are Reyes’ career numbers with Yadi behind the plate vs. everyone else.

by Harknights on May 20, 2008 9:57 PM EDT   0 recs

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