this that and the other
lot to talk about in that game, and wouldn’t you know --- i’m in a big hurry, heading out very early this morning on a two-day trip. (in fact, i’m already well down the road as you read this). so let me just round up a few tidbits and chew ‘em over very roughly:
isringhausen. four swinging strikes? you go, jason. two came on straight fastballs, one on a curve, and one on a cutter. he threw the latter, much-abused pitch twice to nady, who fouled off the first one and hit the second to ryan ludwick; he also threw one cutter to laroche, who swung through it. three trials, three swings, no damage. also of note --- after saying in the paper the other day that he only trusts his curveball on pitcher’s counts, izzy ventured a first-pitch bender to laroche and another on 2-2. both pitches missed the strike zone, but at least he tried something different. (the Hardball Times had some fascinating stuff on izzy’s curveball yesterday, by the way.) i wasn’t around to listen to the 9th inning; hope the people didn’t boo.
15 men left on base. that’s a lot, even for this team. in fact, it’s tied for the franchise’s 10th-highest LOB total dating back to 1956, taking only 9-inning games into account. but wait --- the cards only batted 8 times, because they didn’t have to bat in the 9th-inning. for an 8-inning LOB total, last night’s game is tied for 4th. . . . .
edmonds is a cub. and they can have him. he’ll probably fare better in wrigley than he did in petco park, where he hit .091 (3 hits in 33 trips), but he’s washed up nonetheless. the cardinals moved him so he wouldn’t block their prized cf prospect, colby rasmus; the cubs just acquired him and another castoff, reed johnson, to block the path of their young stud cfer, felix pie. better them than us . . . . . .
i can only think of one other instance in franchise history in which an iconic cardinal --- a hall-of-fame candidate, a championship-ring wearer --- ended up playing for the detested arch-rival of the moment (keeping in mind that arch-rivals change from era to era). the guy i’m thinking of is joe medwick, who got traded to brooklyn in 1941. the cards and dodgers were fierce rivals throughout the 1940s, finishing 1-2 in the standings in 1941, 1942, 1946, 1947, and 1949. i suppose you could also count dizzy dean, who went to the cubs in 1937 immediately after the cubs and cards had tied for 2d place (and they finished 1-2 in the standings the year before that, in 1935). and you might put keith hernandez on that list; at the time he joined the mets they were doormats, but within two years they were the cards’ most loathed enemies. while there have been other popular players who joined the dark side (so to speak) down through the years, it’s not often that a player of edmonds’ stature winds up in that position. . . . .
please don’t post any more FanPosts on this subject. in the last couple of days i’ve deleted about half a dozen threads on this topic, because they’re all redundant with this one. i know this is a big deal to a lot of folks, but one discussion thread is plenty. [/ grumbling]
wellemeyer. today marks the 1-year anniversary of his acquisition by st louis via waiver claim. i began looking at this pitcher in a different light after his 2d start of the year, when he got 16 swinging strikes in 7 innings against houston while only walking one batter. prior to that, i and a large segment of VEBland thought he didn’t belong in the rotation and was there only because of tony n dave’s stubborn insistence on pissing off this community. i reckon it’s time for all of us to eat crow. welley shows every characteristic of a power pitcher --- he misses bats, keeps runners off base, occasionally gets tripped up by the longball, but generally makes batters take uncomfortable at-bats. after coughing up 5 homers in his first 18 innings, he has yielded only 1 in his last 37 ip; opponents are hitting just .216 against him, and his k/bb is a sterling 2.5 to 1.
at the risk of jinxing this guy, i have shed nearly all my doubts about him --- and they were considerable heading into the season. i wasn’t impressed with him last year; he didn’t throw strikes consistently and was bailed out of deep holes several times by the offense, which always seemed to score runs when he pitched. wellemeyer didn’t throw well this spring, walking more men than he struck out. but he’s halved his walk rate, and sustained that performance over 55 innings --- a span that represents more than 20 percent of his career. his BABIP is a tad low (.255) and his strand rate’s a tad high (75 percent), and both of those figures are due to regress; welley’s FIP is 3.82, half a run higher than his 3.27 era. but on the whole, i don’t think this is a regress-to-the-mean situation. throwing strikes is a repeatable skill, and it looks as if wellemeyer has learned it.
the only doubt i have left is his durability; he has never thrown more than 80 innings at the big-league level, and his season high in the minor leagues was only 147 innings. i wonder if wellemeyer’s effectiveness will diminish as his innings total climbs past 100, 120, 140. we saw that happen with looper last year to an extent; he put up a 3.72 era in his first 12 starts, had a little elbow discomfort and hit the dl, then posted a 6.18 era in his second 12 starts. but if wellemeyer can get through the year with 180 innings and an era between 3.75 and 4.25, that’s a huge triumph --- one that expands the team’s talent base.
i looked at the career lines of a few other pitchers who, like wellemeyer, are / were hard throwers with control problems who finally got it all together in their late 20s: dave stewart, bobby witt, darryl kile, rick helling, and al leiter came immediately to mind. but all of those guys showed flashes of ability early in their careers --- ie, they had years with eras below 4.00. wellemeyer never did; in his one "good" season (2006), he walked 6.5 men per 9 innings and had an FIP of 4.84. welley came into this year with a career era well above 5.00 and a walk rate pushing 6 per 9 innings. can anybody think of a pitcher who was as terrible as wellemeyer in his early 20s but went on to have a good career? nolan ryan, sandy koufax, and randy johnson do not apply either; they were all above-average pitchers who became great pitchers once they harnessed their control. wellemeyer’s trying to make the leap from replacement-level to above-average; i just can’t come up with a decent comp.
bob forsch threw a shutout, and the 1986 sim-cards are headed to the world series against the sim-yankees. if buzz bissinger needed any further evidence that will leitch has sold his soul to the devil, there it is. . . . .
i pre-programmed a game thread and an overflow; will have my nose buried in archives all day. win the series, fellahs.
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Isringhausen
I was at the game; maybe a couple of boos, far more cheering, particularly from the bullpen bleachers. From my perspective, it did not appear he could get the curve over for a strike. I guess not surprising, since he really hasn’t thrown it this year, but hopefully something he can straighten out. :)
by knieriemd on May 15, 2008 8:34 AM EDT 0 recs
he never really gets it over for a strike
That’s what he hasn’t been thrown a lot. He’ll get a lot of swing strikes. But he uses his cutter to set it up. And then gets batters to chase the curve. So when he lost his cutter he stopped throwing his knuckle curve.
by Evilfrog on
May 15, 2008 8:51 AM EDT
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and that curve is wicked if he’s ahead in the count. Not waino wicked, but a damn tough pitch to get hard contact on.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
May 15, 2008 9:22 AM EDT
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We *need* Izzy
At his salary, we can’t afford not to have him not right. Last night was heartening. Hopefully, it is an indication of a more effective closer. Another “Hopefully:” We get another chance to see him on the mound, with the lead, in the 9th, tonight. I’m going to a couple games this weekend and I will cheer Izzy.
(Disclosure: My only game in attendance at Busch III, in 2006, he blew a 9th inning lead to the Cubs, and we lost in extras.)
As for the Colonel. +1 on the wear and tear of starting concerns. +1 on the eating crow. He’s fastly winning a place in my the Kool Aid drinking portion of my heart, with the likes of past Cardinal hurlers such as Woody Williams, Steve Kline, Jeff Suppan, Kiko Calero and Danny Haren.
by bgh on May 15, 2008 9:09 AM EDT 0 recs
irregardless of salary, we sure do need him right.
It was pretty obvious that if he’s on the roster that we’re in total disarray if he’s not the closer. Starters not coming out quick enough, which starts a landslide of shut down guys being used too much with runners on, and then irregular matchups that break the mold of our setup then closer role. He’s the core of the pitching staff in a lot of ways because of how everyone else is used with him there, but not avail.
That being said, last night was perfect for him. Give him 3, 4 runs. it’s incentive to plow through the guys, keeps him in the 9th inning frame of mind, but isn’t a total pressure cooker.
This way it keeps him within his role, but defending a stronger lead. As long as he has a quick hook, we’re all good.
As his confidence and results build, then so do the doors to more save situations.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
May 15, 2008 9:21 AM EDT
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Absolutely
The reason you pay a man $8M to pitch the 9th inning is to “shorten the game.” In essence, making a 9-inning game only 8 innings long. When your mentality as a manager shifts from plotting out for 8 innings with the 9th pre-determined to plotting out for 9 inning because the 9th is a crap shoot, it is problematic to say the least. This is compounded by having a mad scientist manager.
If nothing else, Izzy has proven to be an individual with tremendous mental toughness. Bouncing back should not be a problem for him if his mechanics are back where they need to be.
by bgh on
May 15, 2008 9:52 AM EDT
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Exactly
Izzy is the poster child for adversity. A lot of people don’t remember some of his older issues and things he’s been through during his career. Some bullet points
- Blistered through the minors and dominated a midseason call up with the mets.
- strained a rib cage muscle, mets continued to have him pitch. Him compensating on it caused his mechanics to go way out of wack, needed elbow and shoulder surg
- broke a hand hitting something
- tuberculosis, huge cancer scare, but ended up not being cancerous. and treated
- cut him self while opening a box, i think. pretty bad.
- dumped for a closer from the A’s
- turned into the closer he is and has been
- hip issues
At the end of the day, he’s a class act, been through hell and back and is still slinging. I’ll take a healthy mechanically flawed Izzy over half of the leagues options, and if last night ends up being a foundation hopefully we’re headed in the right direction there too.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
May 15, 2008 10:28 AM EDT
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Watching the game on TV
I was not impressed with Izzy’s performance. He was still missing the target by a large margin and he got lucky that some of his mistakes were not squared up. I still saw a pitcher struggling with his mechanics and control. The result was good but he is still a work in progress. I hope TLR and Dunc look at the tape and see that Izzy is still not ready to be closing games.
by indakind on
May 15, 2008 11:05 AM EDT
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Yeah
I agree he’s probably not ready to close again, but last night was progress—a couple of the cutters he threw actually cut.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on
May 15, 2008 11:11 AM EDT
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But
he did have some zip and movement on his pitches last night, so thats hope. I just don’t know if he has the stamina to be a full time closer anymore. With any kind of pitch count near 30, I would not use Izzy 2 days in a row.
by ridgesee on
May 15, 2008 11:25 AM EDT
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oh, I wasn’t clamoring for his return. Matter in fact I can wait a bit for that. That would be like seeing Duncan having two hits against lefties in three days and begging to start him against lefties. It’s all falsehoods.
What I do like about his last two outings – more movement, better selection of pitches.
What I didn’t like, 1K, 1H and 4 deep flyballs. Flyballs and Izzy tend to worry me because he’s still not winning, the batters are beating themself just as much.
But he’s safe with a four run lead, he can work through his toolkit and start finding confidence, and we all would agree that’s a good thing.
I’m just fine looking for many more outings in a 4 run lead situation. But don’t look for me to want him with a one run lead, not enough room to put a hook on him. Not for a while yet.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
May 15, 2008 12:08 PM EDT
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was that game in the first week of june 2006?
if so, i was at that game—first time in st. louis. good times…
When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?
by RosevilleRedbird on
May 15, 2008 12:19 PM EDT
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and of course this comment was in response to bgh's further up in the thread
one of these days i will learn how to properly join a thread…
When cheese gets its picture taken, what does it say?
by RosevilleRedbird on
May 15, 2008 12:21 PM EDT
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Edgar comes to mind
The arch rival bit is blown out of the water, but the similarities in Jimmy and Edgar are there.
Flordia won the world series, followed up with a dismal season. Edgar wouldn’t even consider a resign and bailed. Came to us. Which corresponds to Jimmy’s ring, bad season, no longer wanting to be on a team looking to lose (which IMO, is what really was going on).
Since the Pads aren’t exactly running away with the division (sarcasm) and with him being released, the Cubs are the strongest contender that looked at him, I can see the lack of loyalty showing up quick in a ring chase.
And I want Pie. I mentioned it and some rationale on the edmonds signing fan post, but if he’s going to be the late bloomer I think he will be, he’d be gorgeous sitting next to Ank and Rassa next year. 3 5 tool outfielders? I’ll take that anyday of the week.
Them blocking him is going to be detrimental. Just a gut feeling, but with Lou being deadset against him, I think he’ll always be blocked and never get a fair shake.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on May 15, 2008 9:10 AM EDT 0 recs
On the topic of Renteria
His signing with the Red Sox netted us the BoSox ‘05 first rounder and a supplemental pick. That first round pick was Colby Rasmus.
With no evidence to the contrary, Colby Rasmus is clutch
by joker24 on
May 15, 2008 11:19 AM EDT
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I'm not sold on Pie
I live in Chicagoland and watch a few games; he just doesn’t seem to want to learn to lay off pitches.
by sdrone on
May 15, 2008 11:44 AM EDT
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open mouth, insert crow
I too thought that Welly-love was misguided. He’s now doing what I thought the Kipper would do. Could LaDunc know more than me? Impossible.
by vinniefromjersey on May 15, 2008 9:24 AM EDT 0 recs
On the origin of "eating crow"
I was interested in the origin and looked this up…
by eglasier on
May 15, 2008 9:28 AM EDT
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thanks for the info.
If interested, here is a further discussion: http://www.worldwidewords.org/articles/eatcrow.htm
by vinniefromjersey on
May 15, 2008 10:14 AM EDT
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I thought Welly
Could be a 5th starter. He is looking closer to a middle of the rotation guy. I love it. If he finishes the season with an ERA under 3 and 175 + innings; im going to go vist Kentucky next year.
by Evilfrog on
May 15, 2008 9:29 AM EDT
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make sure you grow a kentucky waterfall mullet so you blend in.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on
May 15, 2008 9:42 AM EDT
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beer vs tacos
VEB/SABR are certainly beer oriented (stats) vs tacos (scouts) even though we claim not to be (myself included) and vice-versa with the old folks.
This was a classic case of LaDuncan actually knowing exactly what was wrong and fixing a real talent….I still think we are both way too stubborn on our respective sides but keep in mind for every Colonel Harpo there are 3 Kip Wells, Jason Marquis and Sidney Ponson’s.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on
May 15, 2008 9:42 AM EDT
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the sidney ponson thing wasn't as big of a deal
we cut bait on him pretty quickly. If that’s the price to pay to find chaff like Carpenter, Woody and (apparently) Wellemeyr, then it’s fine. The problem with Marquis and Wells was that management wasn’t willing to cut bait on Marquis early enough in 2006, and we were stuck with wells last year becasuse everyone was horrible
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on
May 15, 2008 10:25 AM EDT
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that's the important thing....
I don’t mind taking a swing and miss, it’s inevitable…however, knowing when to just let go is just too important to be stubborn on.
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on
May 15, 2008 10:34 AM EDT
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Well, as long as he's just hurting the record of the Springfield Cardinals
I don’t really care about Mulder
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on
May 15, 2008 12:08 PM EDT
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Not cutting Marquis loose early enough...
didnt really effect the outcome of the season…it turned out ok.
"Back in the day when I played, a pitcher had 3 pitches: a fastball, a curveball, a slider, a changeup and a good sinker pitch." - Mike Shannon
by nomar34 on
May 15, 2008 12:59 PM EDT
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We finished that season relying on the Braves
The mere fact that that season included the fans at Busch stadium doing a Tomahawk chop is somewhat problematic. If Marquis had been dropped from the rotation in mid to late August, we probably would not have won the division by the narrowest margin imaginable.
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on
May 15, 2008 1:05 PM EDT
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or the pitcher that replaced him
could have been just as bad or worse in those games…we did win 2 of the games he started after aug 15th…we have no way of knowing we would have done better if we did cut him loose sooner…i am no way a Bi-polar Betty supporter but to say things could have beet better in a season where you won the WS seems a little odd to me. but maybe you are right, if it happens again this year i would hope the pull the plug sooner on whoever it is.
"Back in the day when I played, a pitcher had 3 pitches: a fastball, a curveball, a slider, a changeup and a good sinker pitch." - Mike Shannon
by nomar34 on
May 15, 2008 1:15 PM EDT
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results oriented thinking
"How depressing is it being you? Would you equate it to being a lifelong Cubs fan?"
by rocKStark5 on
May 15, 2008 1:37 PM EDT
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It would be neat
to go through all of the starting pitching before dunc, after and during and compare numbers across the board. He’s been around long enough there wouldn’t be any small sample size issues.
May look into that.
And to be fair, you are picking the three most recent, and most ‘horrific’ of points, I don’t know if that ratio is really fair. Looper is another consideration (recent) of someone who has had a solid turn around all in all, injuries aside.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
May 15, 2008 10:32 AM EDT
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Rogers Hornsby?
He won an MVP for the Cardinals, and then went to the Cubs and won an MVP (and I think a triple crown) with them. Did peple hate the cubs in the 1920s?
They say that it's never too late, but you don't get any younger...
by Valatan on May 15, 2008 9:29 AM EDT 0 recs
He also managed for the Browns (as well as Cubs)
I don’t which one of those actions were considered worse betrayals back then.
by enoscountry on
May 15, 2008 9:41 AM EDT
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Glad someone brought this up!
Maybe the Cubs should have a “Reverse Hornsby Curse” since all the Cardinal rings came after he left the Cardinals for the Cubs. My uncle and I joke about this all the time
"I just wish that the late Harry Caray were still around so I could hear him mispronounce 'Kosuke Fukudome' every fukun' night" -- Dennis Miller
by fourstick on
May 15, 2008 9:49 AM EDT
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MVPs for different teams
You mentioning Rajah winning MVPs while playing for two different teams - which I did not realize - made me wonder how many players had done that. That’s quite an achievement.
Here’s who I found. Hornsby (Cards and Cubs); Mickey Cochrane (A’s and Tigers); Frank Robinson (Reds and Orioles); Barry Bonds (Pirates and Giants); Alex Rodriguez (Rangers and Yanks).
by Youneverknow on
May 15, 2008 9:52 AM EDT
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Hornsby was traded
in the off-season following the Cardinals’ first World Series win (!) to the New York Giants for Frank Frisch and Jimmy Ring. The “Rajah” then was flipped to the Boston Braves, and from there to the Chicago Cubs. After the Cubs released him in 1932, he was re-signed by the Cardinals for the ‘33 season only to be released in July, signing immediately with the Browns (where he played a total of 67 games through 1937.)
Prior to 1926, the Cardinals had never won a World Series… owner Sam Breadon took plenty of flak for trading Hornsby, but Branch Rickey’s “farm system” was starting to produce the players that made the Cardinals one of the powers of the National League throughout the 1930s and 1940s. The fans at the time felt “betrayed” by Breadon, not Hornsby … but Frisch had an outstanding season in ‘27, and they “got over it” with pennants in 1931, 1934, and so on…
"In this game, don't nobody know nuthin' about nuthin'." -- attributed to Lawrence Peter "Yogi" Berra
by The Ol Goaler on
May 15, 2008 11:47 AM EDT
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Lb
I disagree that Koufax doesn’t qualify as Wellemeyer example. Koufax was as wild as they come and around 26 or 27 it all came together for some reason. Also for some reason there had been a history of wild lefthanders up until that time and most ML clubs had little patience with them. It seemed to be a common thought by many to “not waste your time on a wild lefthander, they’ll never come around.
Koufax was the one that changed that thought altogether and there was probably a lot of good leftys abandoned before him.
by ridgesee on May 15, 2008 10:41 AM EDT 0 recs
Wellemeyer
What stands out is that this isn’t an overnight success. Look at his steady improvement in walk rate and WHIP since 2004. It’s a definite trend, suggesting that while it’s taken him awhile to put it together, it’s not something that’s going to disappear.
WHIP - BB/9
2003chi: 1.590 - 6.18
2004chi: 1.932 - 7.40
2005chi: 1.670 - 6.12
2006flo: 1.547
2006kc: 1.491 -5.74
2007kc: 2.298
2007stl: 1.272 - 4.54
2008stl: 1.127—3.11
http://www.fangraphs.com/graphs.aspx?playerid=1709&position=P&page=0&type=mini
by lyon812 on May 15, 2008 10:46 AM EDT 0 recs
Wellemeyer
is like that decent-looking girl at the beginning of high school who turned into a babe by senior year. I’ll admit, I didn’t think he had it in him. Here’s hoping he keeps up the good work.
"because at the end of the day they still are the Chicago Cubs"
by rockin the red on May 15, 2008 11:28 AM EDT 0 recs
Additional thoughts: C-Dunc and grammar
In addition to the brief observations about the game last night, I couldn’t help but comment on Chris Duncan’s strikeout. It was painful to watch. He appeared helpless and lost at the plate. Watching three pitches go by… wow… Something is seriously wrong with him – mentally? physically?
ALSO: Just to be a grammar nazi: “Irregardless” is not a word. :-)
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
by palampe on May 15, 2008 11:54 AM EDT 0 recs
well
None of those 3 strikes were over the plate.
by Evilfrog on
May 15, 2008 12:01 PM EDT
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umm
they were at the very least right on the edge (if not over the plate), and they’d been getting called for strikes all night.
by Birds on the Matt on
May 15, 2008 12:03 PM EDT
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pinch hitting isn't easy.
It’s not easy to come into a game and know that the pitcher is getting both sides of the plate.

by Evilfrog on
May 15, 2008 12:05 PM EDT
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not jumping on either side...
of the arguement here, but the out pitch was the exact same pitch that got called for a strike to start off the at bat…of course you don’t necessarily expect the pitcher to get three borderliners in a row, either. Tough call, but I think you got to be protecting the plate a little better there.
Mainly it looks to me like a good sequence from the hurler…that’ll happen sometimes.
by cardzfanbub on
May 15, 2008 12:17 PM EDT
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He should have tried to foul off that 3rd pitch
We would have jumped on him if he hit that first one into play. The second one was on the inside of the plate. You really don’t expect the pitcher to get the inside and outside like that.
Yes, he should have tried to foul off that third one. And that’s why pinch hitting is so hard. It’s not always easy to adjust to the strike zone. And im sure with how inside the second pitch was, that third one looked a lot more outside than it really was.
Im not saying it was a good AB for Duncan. But the guy has a good eye. He walks a lot. His strike outs are normally swing and misses. And all three of those pitchers weren’t over the plate. So I wouldn’t call him “helpless and lost at the plate” or think that he has “Something is seriously wrong with him – mentally? physically?” for striking out on three straight balls.
by Evilfrog on
May 15, 2008 12:37 PM EDT
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if anything
Give Salas credit for recognizing getting that first one called a strike. Sitting up duncan with an inside pitch. And then going back to the same pitch for the thrid strike. It’s not easy to hit those spots three times in a row.
by Evilfrog on
May 15, 2008 12:42 PM EDT
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+1
That just looks like a very good sequence from the pitcher.
by birdo rojo on
May 15, 2008 12:56 PM EDT
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I'm glad someone caught a screen shot of this AB
because I was furious at the calls Salas was getting.
"Well, folks, this game began as a tiny worm and is blossoming into a large cobra." - Mike "The Moon Man" Shannon
by Tudor's Electric Fan on
May 15, 2008 12:50 PM EDT
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as far as “irregardless”, I’m aware of the “double negative” issues , while condemned in various circles, it’s generally accepted in casual writing, which I’m assuming… this blog is. ;)
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
May 15, 2008 12:18 PM EDT
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true...
but I’m with palampe here…that word and many like it are little pet peeves of mine.
It’s like when people say “I could care less” when they mean “I couldn’t care less”.
by cardzfanbub on
May 15, 2008 12:20 PM EDT
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right
or “debone”, “unravel” and the like. I get it.
It’s something I tend to not use in general unless I’m writing something formal. However, when I’m on here I don’t have my purist hat on, which is what’s needed to go against it. At the end of the day it is in the dictionary and has been for some time as it’s became a “half-breed’ lexicon.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
May 15, 2008 12:27 PM EDT
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Right...
It is proper grammar that makes us higher beings than Cub fans. Feel free to use “irregardless” all you like, though you’re just wasting a perfectly good “i” and “r.” Personally, I’m just thankful for the intellectual altitude of the majority of the posts on this site. The quality (content, not to mention the grammar) is far superior than, say, the idiotic forums found on the stltoday.com site. To all who frequent here, my thanks to you.
I now return to the discussion at hand: I think there is something awry with C. Duncan. Even his facial hair seems a bit odd these days. He is quickly going the way of John Rodriguez and other pinch-hitting bench players who have no long term future with this team. Personally, (playing GM for the moment), I’d look to trade him to some team looking for a first basemen or DH. Anything in return would be fine be me. He seems a broken/limited piece in a crowded area of the roster.
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
by palampe on
May 15, 2008 1:08 PM EDT
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Well, as noted below, I’m taking the devils advocate approach because at the end of the day, I typed it. Points are all taken, and I agree about the level of discourse being a lot higher here than most places. Which is why I frequent here over anywhere else where discussion is concerned.
I can think of about 10 things off the top of my head that are better about Cards fans than Cubs fans, but I’ll relish in the Cards WS ticket stubs I have in a frame from our last three appearances and leave that topic alone.
As far as Duncan, Mo said the yesterday on the chat at STLToday.com that Dunc’s not going anywhere. So I think we’re stuck with him for better or worse for a while. Also to note that getting rid of him means we have to keep a reasonable backup for 1B. Not just to give Albert time off, but in case that elbow gives way. Duncan does play that position reasonable well at least.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
May 15, 2008 1:40 PM EDT
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Got to say
I’m on palampe’s side on this one. “Irregardless” is one of those fingernails-on-chalkboard type of words for me.
by cardsgirl95 on
May 15, 2008 12:24 PM EDT
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Use the word
“Irrespective.” That’s what you mean to say.
by Red in Chicago on
May 15, 2008 12:26 PM EDT
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I'm aware, thanks
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
May 15, 2008 12:28 PM EDT
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generally accepted or not
it’s not a word, and if taken literally totally changes the meaning of what you’ve said. It also makes people assume that you are uneducated or illiterate (speaking from experience in the business world).
Sorry if this feels like piling on, but the way a person speaks (or types, in the blogosphere) is one of the strongest ways people form impressions about them. Having said that, I’m sure there’s a grammatical gaffe in this comment somewhere!
"...but If I can do some damage and help my team win, I'm going to stay in there" -Albert
by BigMOman on
May 15, 2008 12:53 PM EDT
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To include, in general, about 50% of the comments on this site, if not more. Hell, you have a “cow” talking. Sadly enough, if you look across this post alone, you’ll see several “gaffes” abound. But I get it, the word is controversial, like a couple of words I mentioned above. Thus it’s singled out and since I defended it’s usage, I’m liable for the recourse. That’s fine and understandable.
Without an edit feature even if it was caught, it’s not correctable. Since a purist point of view (well, evolved to many) came around, I took the devils advocate approach. My points stand just fine on their own, even if I or others may not agree with them.
As far as the “education” of someone based on something considered borderline is quite ignorant, and if I have to entertain that conversation, I’d be glad to. :) To look at it in that respect would be alike me sitting here considering a fair share of the authors of the posts lacking anything over a 5th grade education. Which is absurd to say the least.
However, at the end of the day I’m in a boring as hell meeting and I entertained this to begin with, so I’ll take the consequences. Hopefully we all can look at the content instead of grammar, word usage, or typos. Because if that was a guideline, SB as a whole would be in a whole lot of hurt.
If I come across harsh don’t take it as such, it’s not the point of the reply.
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
May 15, 2008 1:30 PM EDT
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Lineups
Cardinals:
Schumaker rf
Duncan lf
Pujols 1b
Ankiel cf
Glaus 3b
Molina c
Kennedy 2b
Pineiro p
Ryan ss
Pittsburgh:
Sanchez 2b
McLouth cf
Michaels lf
LaRoche 1b
Nady rf
Mientkiewicz 3b
Paulino c
Gomez ss
Snell p
I really wish we could see some sort of consistency with the lineup. AK batting 2nd was working great. He gets two days off (understandably, because of the lefties) then he’s back hitting 7th??
I do like that Ryan is getting some consistent PT, even though he plays a different position every night.
Surprised to see Molina playing today. I think this is the 1st day game following a night game he’s played in all year.
Proud President of the Unofficial Skip Schumaker Fan Club!
(now accepting applications)
PUT SKIP ON THE BALLOT!!!
by stltrav09 on May 15, 2008 11:59 AM EDT 0 recs
did the last day game too (which was the 1st of the season)
helps when you get some pad free time I guess ;)
and I wish he was hitting 7th. kennedy two and dunc 6.
Molina’s speed issues need to be lower in the order IMO. Even if it’s not clustering “power’ (whatever standard you’re slotting Molina’s power in)
I use statistics much as a drunken man uses lamp-posts – as support rather than illumination. - Andrew Lang
by AdjustedExpectations on
May 15, 2008 12:15 PM EDT
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LaDunc is trying to
get son Chris started, and batting him in front of AP gives him the best chance of seeing fastballs over the plate. Kennedy should be batting second off past performance, but I’m okay with trying to get Duncan going. The run production could use him.
by vinniefromjersey on
May 15, 2008 12:26 PM EDT
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consistency would be nice
but I guess at least he’s consistently inconsistent
Ankiel is Jesus!
by Cards Fan in Chitown on
May 15, 2008 1:05 PM EDT
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Suspension
Maybe they are trying to get the most out of Molina before a suspension is handed down for the MLB lords…
"Back in the day when I played, a pitcher had 3 pitches: a fastball, a curveball, a slider, a changeup and a good sinker pitch." - Mike Shannon
by nomar34 on
May 15, 2008 2:07 PM EDT
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Pitcher who put it together
Gaylord Perry was pretty terrible when he first started, but he finally broke out around age 27 and had a HOF career. He’d flashed decent two years previously, but more than half of that was coming out of the bullpen so I’m not sure how to weight that.
Also, a case could be made that he was “mechanically aided” in his breakout…
by Phyrkrakr on May 15, 2008 12:10 PM EDT 0 recs
He's not a comparable
because no one would ever call him a fireballer, but Jaime Moyer was mostly awful until his late twenties. But he had a couple of decent seasons, which invalidates him according to Lb’s criteria above.
I have to wonder if part of the reason why Wellemeyer doesn’t have a good comparable has to do with the fact that he was used as a reliever for most of his mlb career. As a reliever, one horrible outing really sticks with you and skews your stats in a way that just isn’t true of one horrible start when you are in the rotation. Most of these other guys who came to ‘get it’ at least managed to keep rotation spots, off and on, until they were in their late twenties. Wellsie got his first chance to get consistent starts last year
